?s for those who use an All-in-One classical LA program like CW

[Amy M]

We're halfway through 2nd grade right now and I'm looking ahead for what writing program to buy for next year, since we're overseas and my FIL is visiting in September; so he can bring stuff over for me. My problem is that I don't know where I'm headed in writing or what is even important.

 

I am attracted to language programs like CW, Write from History, or ELTL, which are classical or CM with a classical flavor, that integrate spelling, grammar, copywork, narration, dictation, vocab, and even lit analysis into one program. Right now we're using FLL and WWE, but I try to do narrations from our science, history, or lit readings, and make copywork from our lit, instead of using WWE's workbook. I would like to streamline all of this as much as possible, which is why I ditched WWE's workbook so that we weren't using random snippets of lit.

 

For those of you who use CW or other all-in-one programs, I need some advice...

 

Is it worth the price to buy the program, if you don't use all of the components? When I look at CW's primer, for example, I love the nature study and picture study, and the copywork and narration, but I think I would feel pressured to use the phonics and spelling components, even though I already have those covered better through other curricula. Then on top of that, we're still not reading literature connected to our history or current lit, and the grammar seems light--which leads me to my next question...

 

If I am drawn to CW for most of the components, but feel that the grammar is lighter than FLL or R&S (just based on what I can tell for now) for the grades 1-4, is grammar really that important? Is the grammar "enough" in CW Aesop and Primer levels specifically or Write from History? Should I go more CM and teach grammar through writing if I like a certain writing program that isn't as strong as, say, R&S in grammar? OR....

 

Should I pick the strongest curriculum for each subject, and if I like CW writing only use the writing portions? (I don't want to use only R&S, though; I know I at least want to use CW or CAP for writing.) Is it worth switching to an all-in-one for my sanity and saving time and for the strong writing components?

 

I run across similar problems with ELTL--I like certain things, but I still would like to combine narrations with the history and lit we're already doing, not add on yet more readings every day. Even though it goes through entire books, still, they weren't the books I was going to read at that time. Or is it worth it just to save the time from having to organize my own curriculum?

 

Then I'm noticing that many of the curricula do dictations kind of differently than WWE. They are more studied dictations. So I guess some of my basic questions come down to philosophy of grammar and writing. I had sold myself on SWB's philosophy of early, rigorous grammar, and WWE's way of copywork, dictation, and narration; but now I'm wondering if the other philosophies are more age-appropriate.

 

I feel confused. I had thought I'd do WWE and FLL for grades 1-2, then R&S grammar from then on (I have levels 3-5) with AAS spelling levels 1-4 followed by R&S spelling. I knew I wanted to add CAP or CW for 3rd-4th grade writing, but when I see all of the components in CW, I wonder whether I should use R&S or not, etc. I want to use too many things! How do I choose or narrow down? How much is enough grammar, spelling, and writing per day, and how much is too much?

 

Sorry this is too long. I want to get solid curricula for each subject, but don't want to kill my kids by doing too many overlapping items, and so like the idea of an all-in-one.

[Kathie in VA]

I've used CW from Aesop thru Herodotus.

The spelling in CW is not expected to be a full program. I use a separate spelling prgm but I do some of the CW spelling lessons because I like the different approach... It is similar to the SWR program. In fact I got the Wise Guide To a Spelling to supplement the CW ... But it is not required.

 

I treat the vocabulary in Homer m Diogenes in a similar manner. I make sure to do some of the vocabulary sheets ... I think they are a great idea.

 

The grammar starts light in Aesop but gets serious at the Homer and Diogenes levels. By the time you are done with those two levels you do not need any more formal grammar. I do FLL for 1st n 2nd grades. Sometimes I will do R&S Eng 3 also since I have it. But once I get to Homer I use Harvey's. ..usually orally to save time. I do think that R&S English grammar is a good alternative. (I have friends that used just the odd number years and it worked just fine.)

 

I also do separate literature since I combine history n lit. (Although combining writing n lit is an interesting thought).

[Heidi]

Here's my experience so far:

 

I ditched SWB ideas for early elementary. I tried WWE & looked at FLL and wasn't sold. We did CM style narrations and copy work form our AO readings in 1 & 2nd grade. Loved that combination. Oldest dd started R&S grammar in 3rd grade. We used it for two years. I loved it, but the kids hated it. Worst part of school according to them. We did Aesop in 3/4th and was going to do Homer but after seriously looking at Homer, I thought it was far more convoluted than it needed to be. CAP or CC are better. Since we ditched R&S for this year I have decided to try ELTL. I have yet to determine if it contains enough grammar and writing for my taste to use it without any additional curriculum. I really love the literature, the real sentences to study grammar, poetry, copy work, and studied dictation paired with her free spelling journal. We've only completed a week though. The lit in ELTL is supposed to be supplemented, I'm sure. My kids read additional literature, as well as science and history, and do written narrations in the latter, in addition to what is contained in ELTL. ELTL is super flexible in that you can add to it without overloading, since it is only scheduled for three days a week and the lessons are short. If I feel like I want to add more grammar, I have the two other days to torture my kids with R&S lessons, or add the supper short lessons from CC to supplement writing if needed, but I don't think it will be needed, which means shorter and less complicated days for everyone.

[Amy M]

Here's my experience so far:

 

I ditched SWB ideas for early elementary. I tried WWE & looked at FLL and wasn't sold. We did CM style narrations and copy work form our AO readings in 1 & 2nd grade. Loved that combination. Oldest dd started R&S grammar in 3rd grade. We used it for two years. I loved it, but the kids hated it. Worst part of school according to them. We did Aesop in 3/4th and was going to do Homer but after seriously looking at Homer, I thought it was far more convoluted than it needed to be. CAP or CC are better. Since we ditched R&S for this year I have decided to try ELTL. I have yet to determine if it contains enough grammar and writing for my taste to use it without any additional curriculum. I really love the literature, the real sentences to study grammar, poetry, copy work, and studied dictation paired with her free spelling journal. We've only completed a week though. The lit in ELTL is supposed to be supplemented, I'm sure. My kids read additional literature, as well as science and history, and do written narrations in the latter, in addition to what is contained in ELTL. ELTL is super flexible in that you can add to it without overloading, since it is only scheduled for three days a week and the lessons are short. If I feel like I want to add more grammar, I have the two other days to torture my kids with R&S lessons, or add the supper short lessons from CC to supplement writing if needed, but I don't think it will be needed, which means shorter and less complicated days for everyone.

 

What levels of ELTL are you referring to here? And CC is Classical Comp from MP? Thanks!

 

Would you mind elaborating just a BIT more if you have time on your unhappiness with the Homer level?

 

[Amy M]

Here's my experience so far:

 

I ditched SWB ideas for early elementary. I tried WWE & looked at FLL and wasn't sold. We did CM style narrations and copy work form our AO readings in 1 & 2nd grade. Loved that combination. Oldest dd started R&S grammar in 3rd grade. We used it for two years. I loved it, but the kids hated it. Worst part of school according to them. We did Aesop in 3/4th and was going to do Homer but after seriously looking at Homer, I thought it was far more convoluted than it needed to be. CAP or CC are better. Since we ditched R&S for this year I have decided to try ELTL. I have yet to determine if it contains enough grammar and writing for my taste to use it without any additional curriculum. I really love the literature, the real sentences to study grammar, poetry, copy work, and studied dictation paired with her free spelling journal. We've only completed a week though. The lit in ELTL is supposed to be supplemented, I'm sure. My kids read additional literature, as well as science and history, and do written narrations in the latter, in addition to what is contained in ELTL. ELTL is super flexible in that you can add to it without overloading, since it is only scheduled for three days a week and the lessons are short. If I feel like I want to add more grammar, I have the two other days to torture my kids with R&S lessons, or add the supper short lessons from CC to supplement writing if needed, but I don't think it will be needed, which means shorter and less complicated days for everyone.

 

When you read through the lit selections in ELTL for the narrations, about how long does it take you per day just to do the reading portions? Do you read a chapter in each book per day? Isn't that a bit long for narrations? I don't think I really have time for that in addition to everything else I'm doing, IYKWIM.

 

[Amy M]

I've used CW from Aesop thru Herodotus.

The spelling in CW is not expected to be a full program. I use a separate spelling prgm but I do some of the CW spelling lessons because I like the different approach... It is similar to the SWR program. In fact I got the Wise Guide To a Spelling to supplement the CW ... But it is not required.

 

I treat the vocabulary in Homer m Diogenes in a similar manner. I make sure to do some of the vocabulary sheets ... I think they are a great idea.

 

The grammar starts light in Aesop but gets serious at the Homer and Diogenes levels. By the time you are done with those two levels you do not need any more formal grammar. I do FLL for 1st n 2nd grades. Sometimes I will do R&S Eng 3 also since I have it. But once I get to Homer I use Harvey's. ..usually orally to save time. I do think that R&S English grammar is a good alternative. (I have friends that used just the odd number years and it worked just fine.)

 

I also do separate literature since I combine history n lit. (Although combining writing n lit is an interesting thought).

 

Kathie, thank you! So you use all of the writing and grammar in Aesop and beyond, parts of the spelling and vocab; then in addition you do a spelling program and occasional grammar. You do a separate lit program, and don't pull copywork, narration, or dictations from your history or lit, but solely do those with CW? 

 

How do you decide when to add R&S into the mix?

[Heidi]

When you read through the lit selections in ELTL for the narrations, about how long does it take you per day just to do the reading portions? Do you read a chapter in each book per day? Isn't that a bit long for narrations? I don't think I really have time for that in addition to everything else I'm doing, IYKWIM.

 

I'm using ELTL 4, so my kids read the lit selections on their own. Sentences are pulled from the literature to study grammar and use for copy work and dictation. In every lesson there is also a short story. The short story is used for narration and the writing/copia exercises.

 

ETA: I sit with them and read the lesson with them, the poem, and short story. Do the quick grammar exercise if there is one, and that's it. Takes me about 10-15 min., about the same amount if time as going over R&S lessons, only much more enjoyable.

 

If your kids cannot read the literature on their own, I would just include it as part of your read aloud routine. It is usually a chapter per lesson, which is three chapters a week, so it doesn't take too long. My kids read the three chapters the week prior. It takes them about 30 min.

 

Yes, CC is classical composition from memoria press. It is very much to the point, which I like. A lesson is divided up into 8 parts that you would spread over 8 days. It really has the student working with words and sentences.

 

I threw away my notes on Homer, but I went through that book (through level 5/or part A) and wrote down exactly what the student would be doing when it comes to composition. I wanted to see the big picture. It was just copia exercises using different parts of speech, from what I remember. I was put off by how difficult it was for me as the teacher to find the big picture, and already being familiar with CC, I liked the more straight forwardness of CC's instruction. CC fable taught more than Homer A's composition as well. I was also thinking of what would be easier to pair with R&S grammar, and I was going to supplement Homer with SWR for spelling as well. so I was looking at Homer only for writing and I didn't think it was worth it, personally. But remember I never used it with my kids either, that us just the conclusion I came to looking through it and taking notes.

[Kathie in VA]

Kathie, thank you! So you use all of the writing and grammar in Aesop and beyond, parts of the spelling and vocab; then in addition you do a spelling program and occasional grammar. You do a separate lit program, and don't pull copywork, narration, or dictations from your history or lit, but solely do those with CW?

 

How do you decide when to add R&S into the mix?

You got it. If we do the copy work or dictation it will be from CW. R&S Englush 3 might get done with Aesop B as we are usually done with FLL 1n2 by then. After Diogenes grammar time should be replaced by logic study.

[aelllc]

Hi,

 

I use Classical Writing with Rod and Staff Grammar.  What I do is use Classical Writing as my base and then supplement with Rod and Staff Grammar.  At the beginning of the year I go through my Rod and Staff Grammar book and select half of the lessons to do.  That way we are doing Rod and Staff Grammar two days a week.  I really enjoy utilizing the grammar portion of Classical Writing as I feel that doing grammar with writing makes it "real" to my kids.  We also do about 10 minutes a day of spelling using words from Spell to Write and Read or Classical Writing.  It really works out to be very integrated and thorough with a little supplementation of grammar and spelling.   

[LMD]

i adore CW, especially primers. The phonics were really just revision and not too onerous imo.