Colleen Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 However this unfolds, one thing is certain: a wide net was cast. Citizens from MANY nations were on that flight ~ the Netherlands (just over half), Australia, United States, Malaysia, Indonesia, United Kingdom, Germany, Belgium, Philippines, Canada, and more. Governments which previously withheld judgment of the Russia-Ukraine conflict may now be more attuned and involved. Meanwhile, in the "things you wish you could rephrase" category we have President Obama's apt observation, "It looks like this may be a terrible tragedy". Er, yes. Spot on, sir. Russia made sure the Winter Games were a wrap before they annexed Crimea. They secured the 2018 World Cup, leading one to wonder if Putin is going to bed with FIFA. But if that tournament was taking place right now….? Good night! Can't see a whole host of people rushing to matches in Rostov or Volgograd on the heels of this incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Between this and the disintegration of the situation in Gaza, among all the other bad news in the world, my heart hurts today. I hear you. :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 However this unfolds, one thing is certain: a wide net was cast. Citizens from MANY nations were on that flight ~ the Netherlands (just over half), Australia, United States, Malaysia, Indonesia, United Kingdom, Germany, Belgium, Philippines, Canada, and more. Governments which previously withheld judgment of the Russia-Ukraine conflict may now be more attuned and involved. Meanwhile, in the "things you wish you could rephrase" category we have President Obama's apt observation, "It looks like this may be a terrible tragedy". Er, yes. Spot on, sir. Russia made sure the Winter Games were a wrap before they annexed Crimea. They secured the 2018 World Cup, leading one to wonder if Putin is going to bed with FIFA. But if that tournament was taking place right now….? Good night! Can't see a whole host of people rushing to matches in Rostov or Volgograd on the heels of this incident. I think with this being such a serious and hostile situation already Obama may be speaking a bit over cautiously. He only just announced new sanctions yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
songsparrow Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Why was the pilot in that airspace? He was at cruising altitude. That's not a space one would expect aircraft in a hostile position. It is a common route from the Netherlands to Malaysia. It's probably the shortest route, saving time and fuel. I don't it was completely unreasonable for a commercial flight to fly through there at that altitude. My understanding from reading online sources is that the airspace was closed at 32,000 ft and below, but the airliner was cruising at 33,000 ft and thus the flight plan was approved. The airspace above the Ukraine has now been closed to an unlimited height according to Reuters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nansk Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I think with this being such a serious and hostile situation already Obama may be speaking a bit over cautiously. He only just announced new sanctions yesterday. I read that his comments were made based on very early reports during a phone conversation with Putin, even before there were any official announcements or tweets on the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nansk Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 It's one thing (and still sad) when it's an accident. It's totally another when it's man's inhumanity to man - even IF they thought they were hitting a different target (highly likely I would think - I suspect untrained rebels... and I HOPE they feel the guilt of all 295 innocents). It is terrifying that powerful weapons are now in the hands of scores of untrained and unsupervised people. :( From here: The Ukrainian government released recordings it said were of Russian intelligence officers discussing the shooting down of an aircraft by rebels they were supporting. Supposedly timed within minutes of the last radar contact with MH-17 around 4:20 p.m. (1320 GMT), they suggested militants thought they had hit a Ukrainian military plane before finding the airliner remains. "Hell," says one of those being recorded. "It's almost 100 percent certain that it's a civilian plane. Bits were falling in the streets ... Bits of seat, bodies." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 This is a horrible tragedy. This country is still reeling from the missing airplane and now this? The same airline? Conspiracy theories are already everywhere online. We have staff flying in from the Netherlands on that same flight one week from now. Well, they were. I'm not sure what will happen now. The whole thing is scary and awful and ... Honestly, I just can't think of adjectives to properly describe it. I am heartbroken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I am reading that there were 298 aboard the plane now instead of 295. 3 more tragedies. If the rebels wanted the attention they will surely get it now, but I am praying the attention is NOT the kind they were really looking for and there will be an end to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted July 18, 2014 Author Share Posted July 18, 2014 I am reading that there were 298 aboard the plane now instead of 295. 3 more tragedies. If the rebels wanted the attention they will surely get it now, but I am praying the attention is NOT the kind they were really looking for and there will be an end to them. I heard last night "298, including three infants," so I assume the infants didn't have their own seats leading to the discrepancy in reporting numbers earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Ah, that makes sense. I know with the last flight it took them a while to get a final count of the people on board due to people changing flights last min. Dawn I heard last night "298, including three infants," so I assume the infants didn't have their own seats leading to the discrepancy in reporting numbers earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sewingmama Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 The reports are so sad. The President of The International AIDS Council, other members of the WHO, a grandfather flying home with his three grandchildren all aged under 11. What is this world coming too? So many people who were doing good in this world with their commitment to fighting AIDS destroyed by people ..well..who where not doing good in this world. More innocent victims caught up in the tally of war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Ladies - there is someone on this board (not me) who is directly affected by this event. I think it would be tactful to limit this thread to expressions of sorrow, rather than speculation. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mysticmomma Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Ladies - there is someone on this board (not me) who is directly affected by this event. I think it would be tactful to limit this thread to expressions of sorrow, rather than speculation. L Agreed. Terrifying and sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valley Girl Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Ladies - there is someone on this board (not me) who is directly affected by this event. I think it would be tactful to limit this thread to expressions of sorrow, rather than speculation. L How awful. Thank you for the caution, Laura. Deepest sympathy for that board member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Ladies - there is someone on this board (not me) who is directly affected by this event. I think it would be tactful to limit this thread to expressions of sorrow, rather than speculation. L Oh no! I am so sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Ladies - there is someone on this board (not me) who is directly affected by this event. I think it would be tactful to limit this thread to expressions of sorrow, rather than speculation. L :grouphug: I wish we could offer more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Had a friend who is attending the International Aids Conference in Melbourne and 100 of her colleagues were on board. 100 of the world's best and brightest AIDS researchers. What a devastating loss. :( http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/07/17/around-100-aids-researchers-heading-to-melbourne-conference-aboard-malaysia-airlines-flight-ukraine-russia-aircraft-crash-victims-australia/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Honestly, why in the world would she read this thread???? She needs to leave the tv off and probably internet as well. Just grieve. Even if we stuck to just the facts it would be incredibly painful. I am so sorry for her loss. I'll be praying for her!!!! I could see opening to see if anyone has linked new information that I had not seen yet. So she might open the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Had a friend who is attending the International Aids Conference in Melbourne and 100 of her colleagues were on board. 100 of the world's best and brightest AIDS researchers. What a devastating loss. :( http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/07/17/around-100-aids-researchers-heading-to-melbourne-conference-aboard-malaysia-airlines-flight-ukraine-russia-aircraft-crash-victims-australia/ :grouphug: It is devastating - even moreso when it wasn't due to a mechanical failure/accident, but purely mankind's need to "settle" disputes via war. I wish we could all just fight AIDS/cancer/heart disease/poverty, etc instead. My :grouphug: and prayers to all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 :grouphug: It is devastating - even moreso when it wasn't due to a mechanical failure/accident, but purely mankind's need to "settle" disputes via war. I wish we could all just fight AIDS/cancer/heart disease/poverty, etc instead. My :grouphug: and prayers to all. Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 :crying: :crying: :crying: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Ladies - there is someone on this board (not me) who is directly affected by this event. I think it would be tactful to limit this thread to expressions of sorrow, rather than speculation. L I'm sorry someone here is directly affected by the tragedy. I am interested in discussing the incident itself as a matter of current events and I don't consider that inappropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Ladies - there is someone on this board (not me) who is directly affected by this event. I think it would be tactful to limit this thread to expressions of sorrow, rather than speculation. L Oh dear. Hugs, prayers and sympathy to our unnamed friend. What a year this has been for our community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I can't help but think of what the Iranians thought when the USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian passenger plane in the late 80s. I was abroad at the time, but wonder what the US coverage was like. It's not like they were rebels or militants, it was a US Navy ship, with all of our technology. Apparently, we've never apologized for the incident. One would think, now would be a good time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted July 18, 2014 Author Share Posted July 18, 2014 I can't help but think of what the Iranians thought when the USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian passenger plane in the late 80s. I was abroad at the time, but wonder what the US coverage was like. It's not like they were rebels or militants, it was a US Navy ship, with all of our technology. Apparently, we've never apologized for the incident. One would think, now would be a good time. I saw that on the news last night. They said we paid $60 million but never acknowledged wrongdoing or apologized. That's pretty crappy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Ladies - there is someone on this board (not me) who is directly affected by this event. I think it would be tactful to limit this thread to expressions of sorrow, rather than speculation. L I think many of us have known how hurtful some types of discussion can be while mourning or in fear for the safety of loved ones. However this is an international incident with very serious ramifications. I do think respectful discussion is not inappropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I can't help but think of what the Iranians thought when the USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian passenger plane in the late 80s. I was abroad at the time, but wonder what the US coverage was like. It's not like they were rebels or militants, it was a US Navy ship, with all of our technology. Apparently, we've never apologized for the incident. One would think, now would be a good time. We did give them monetary compensation but I do think an apology would not have been misplaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umsami Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Yes, we did give money. I still think that it's never too late to say "sorry." There are still countries/governments that apologize for the Holocaust, and I think those things are important. Plus…I think we're trying to have better relations. "The horrible disaster of the shooting down of the Malaysian jet by Russian rebels brings to mind when the USS Vincennes accidentally shot down an Iranian passenger jet in 1988 killing 290 people. I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to the Iranian government and all the families and loved ones of those killed for that incident. It is an apology way overdue." Love, Barack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppy Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 The transcript of the bombers is now online. It's obvious they did not know it was a civilian plane when they shot it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 The transcript of the bombers is now online. It's obvious they did not know it was a civilian plane when they shot it down. Link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 "The horrible disaster of the shooting down of the Malaysian jet by Russian rebels brings to mind when the USS Vincennes accidentally shot down an Iranian passenger jet in 1988 killing 290 people. I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to the Iranian government and all the families and loved ones of those killed for that incident. It is an apology way overdue." Love, Barack That works. Rather better than Bush the First's comment at the time, "I will never apologize for the United States of America. Ever. I don’t care what the facts are.†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Link? Here's the transcript on the BBC site. As noted there, the veracity of the recordings can't be confirmed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Ladies - there is someone on this board (not me) who is directly affected by this event. I think it would be tactful to limit this thread to expressions of sorrow, rather than speculation. L Ow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Honestly, why in the world would she read this thread???? She needs to leave the tv off and probably internet as well. Just grieve. Even if we stuck to just the facts it would be incredibly painful. I am so sorry for her loss. I'll be praying for her!!!! Why? One reason is that picking a scab is a distraction from the original pain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 Why? One reason is that picking a scab is a distraction from the original pain... As you no doubt know, (((Rosie))). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 I just read about a woman who lost her brother on the missing Malaysian Airlines flight in March, and has now lost her stepdaughter on this one. Horrible tragedy all around, compounded by knowing so many people have suffered this kind of loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I read that too. How tragic. I just read about a woman who lost her brother on the missing Malaysian Airlines flight in March, and has now lost her stepdaughter on this one. Horrible tragedy all around, compounded by knowing so many people have suffered this kind of loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I just read about a woman who lost her brother on the missing Malaysian Airlines flight in March, and has now lost her stepdaughter on this one. I am stuck on the grandfather returning to Australia with this three grandchildren, while their parents stayed longer in Europe. All your children and your father are blown to bits in the sky and that's that. Incomprehensible. I am wholly and completely glum about this event, and the ongoing crap in Gaza. My own life is so bogged down with strife and disconnect and it just feels like a microcosm of the human tendency toward discord. I need to either watch something very heavy and give myself over to the sadness or go the opposite direction and pull out some Christopher Guest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slache Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I am stuck on the grandfather returning to Australia with this three grandchildren, while their parents stayed longer in Europe. All your children and your father are blown to bits in the sky and that's that. Incomprehensible. I am wholly and completely glum about this event, and the ongoing crap in Gaza. My own life is so bogged down with strife and disconnect and it just feels like a microcosm of the human tendency toward discord. I need to either watch something very heavy and give myself over to the sadness or go the opposite direction and pull out some Christopher Guest. Tears cleanse the soul. If you don't get it out now you'll carry it around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 I was struck by that as well. Absolutely horrible for that family. I don't quite think they were all blown to bits. There are bodies all over the place. What makes me angry for the families is that they will probably not get those bodies back to bury their loved ones. I am stuck on the grandfather returning to Australia with this three grandchildren, while their parents stayed longer in Europe. All your children and your father are blown to bits in the sky and that's that. Incomprehensible. I am wholly and completely glum about this event, and the ongoing crap in Gaza. My own life is so bogged down with strife and disconnect and it just feels like a microcosm of the human tendency toward discord. I need to either watch something very heavy and give myself over to the sadness or go the opposite direction and pull out some Christopher Guest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 Statement by the US embassy in Ukraine: http://ukraine.usembassy.gov/mobile//statements/asmt-07192014.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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