Grown sibling woes Update my brother unhinged

[MercyA]

I'm so sorry, Scarlett.  :grouphug:

[SproutMamaK]

Oh no, that's horrible. I'm so sorry Scarlet.

Edited July 21, 2016 by SproutMamaK

[East Coast Sue]

Hugs. I'm so sorry.

[Scarlett]

Chances are, when you were ten, you were not noticing how clean his clothes were or otherwise. And he is four years difference. You asked YOUR friends what things were like, not his. Perhaps you were the golden child and he was a black sheep. Or, maybe he is delusional. Can't say.

I asked his friends. I asked everyone. I looked at pictures. I was ALS helping my mom run the house, doing laundry etc. the kid didn't go to school dirty.

[Janeway]

I cannot read the whole thread or find the background information. I can sort of figure there has been some sort of mental health diagnosis and him in treatment? 

 

Here is the thing, in my family there is so much bipolar and schizophrenia that I actually grew to learn to run life, keeping track of it. Not kidding. I will actually save proof of things. And my inlaws, tons of drug and alcohol problems. I had one cousin email me laying in to me about what I did to his sister "when we were growing up" and how he will never forgive me. I look back over time and, well, I am much older than them and did not grow up near them. By the time he was 5 yrs old, I was headed to college. There was no "when we were growing up." 

 

I know this cousin is doing better now, but I do not know if he has ever realized that whatever it is that he remembered was delusional. I had more to add, but need to go...

[TravelingChris]

I am sorry to har about your brother's wofe diagnosis.

[trulycrabby]

I am so very sorry. :grouphug:

[Tammyla]

:grouphug:

[Scarlett]

I cannot read the whole thread or find the background information. I can sort of figure there has been some sort of mental health diagnosis and him in treatment?

 

Here is the thing, in my family there is so much bipolar and schizophrenia that I actually grew to learn to run life, keeping track of it. Not kidding. I will actually save proof of things. And my inlaws, tons of drug and alcohol problems. I had one cousin email me laying in to me about what I did to his sister "when we were growing up" and how he will never forgive me. I look back over time and, well, I am much older than them and did not grow up near them. By the time he was 5 yrs old, I was headed to college. There was no "when we were growing up."

 

I know this cousin is doing better now, but I do not know if he has ever realized that whatever it is that he remembered was delusional. I had more to add, but need to go...

Well it is a long thread. I just kept adding to it, so sorry for confusion. The latest is his wife has just been diagnosed with anal cancer. She is getting her PET scan right now, but I think they already know it is quite advanced.

 

But yes, he is diagnosed Bi-Polar and I think there is a healthy amount of paranoia in there as well. I forget at times though....,so when he comes at me with various crazy things I engage and dispute and then days later sometimes and often times after posting about it here I am like ' oh duh! He is manic. Or he is paranoid '.

 

Part of what has been so difficult in the last few years is his turning on the religion we were raised in. He never took hold of it, was never baptized, although his first wife did as well as his dd who is now 28. But he was never against it. He and his wife had a baby....she began to get serious about the Bible.....was very happy to be in our family and loved loved loved me, my mom and our friends. Brother seemed calm and centered and was also coming back around to our faith when BAM! They just stopped attending, stopped talking to us, un friended us and all our friends and their friends ( of our faith) from FB. Then the attacks on our faith began......and it totally fractured us from him. I mean you just can't have a relationship with someone who is constantly attacking something you hold so dear.

 

My mom has been devastated over it. She and my step,dad had become close to the baby, who is now 5.....and that was lost by reason of my brother and his wife being so against our faith. Brother kept in some contact with us, and I have had some comfort in knowing he is not mentally well.

 

Now his wife is very ill and my brother really is not stable enough to deal with it. Her sister is coming from another state to take care of SIL so brother can take care of their son.

 

He told mom yesterday that the 5 year old said, 'gm still loves us and wants us to be a family'.

 

Mom said, 'that is true, but I just can't listen to the slanderous remarks about < my religion>. I have many friends who are not of my faith yet never say such things to me.'

 

He immediately went into a long example of the evilness ( in his view) of our religion and ended with 'but if you want to be so stupid as to not admit how evil they are go right ahead. we don't need to even discuss religion to be a mom and son who love each other'.

 

Mom said, 'that's true, so why repeat once again what you just said?'

 

And so it goes. I feel bad for my brother. I feel disconnected from my SIL......she cut us off so abruptly and completely and it has been 3 years or so. I live 3 1/2 hours from them. Treatment is another 1 1/2 beyond that....I really don't even know what I could do to help.

[Guest]

I'm sorry about her diagnosis - I cannot imagine how stressful it is for your brother with his existing issues or the rest of the family who is too far away to help. What a mess :(

[G5052]

That's so hard  :grouphug: .

 

You probably know this, but when someone with mental health issues encounters something devastating, it can get really dicey. I've seen it over and over among my relatives. Their emotions can get clouded up, and they forget to take their medicine. They can conjure up thoughts that have no bearing with reality, much more so than otherwise.

[Janeway]

Here is the thing. I do not know his side, and there are a lot of gaps in what happened. BUT...

 

You are very defensive. And for some reason, you have felt the need to go on a hunt, look at pictures and everything, to determine if things were good or bad. You looked at pictures and took that as proof he was clean when he went to school. BUT, how often did he have a picture of him when he was headed to school? And pictures do not really tell if an outfit was clean or dirty. You say you helped your mom "always" BUT..there is something dysfunctional in that. Are you saying in high school, you were either home schooled and never left, or you went to school but returned immediately after and did not go anywhere as you were caring for him, helping her? That, in itself is dysfunctional. But if you say, no, you had friends, activities, a job, and even went to church, then how much were you there to see what went on with him? And did you leave to go to college or marry? Or did you live at home until 23 yrs old? As you said she gave up on him at 19 yrs old and you are 4 years older. So were you home, caring for him full-time or observing how full time?

 

He says religion was used against him by your mother. You say not. BUT, you and his mother seem extremely upset that he turned away from your religion. And you say he has bipolar, but has he been to the doctor and gotten the DX, or have you simply been told that by your mother or guessed it? And even if someone has bipolar disorder, it does not automatically mean he is lying or imagining things. And bipolar is largely genetic. So if one person in the family has it, there is a big chance another has it. Is it possible your mother has it and you saw one side of her and he saw another?

 

These are just things to think about. I am not saying you are wrong or that he is wrong. I am just saying that, there are enough questions in what you post. Especially the fact that these seems to be a need to control his view point and his religion even now, even though he is an adult, who is married, and has a child. 

[Janeway]

Well it is a long thread. I just kept adding to it, so sorry for confusion. The latest is his wife has just been diagnosed with anal cancer. She is getting her PET scan right now, but I think they already know it is quite advanced.

 

But yes, he is diagnosed Bi-Polar and I think there is a healthy amount of paranoia in there as well. I forget at times though....,so when he comes at me with various crazy things I engage and dispute and then days later sometimes and often times after posting about it here I am like ' oh duh! He is manic. Or he is paranoid '.

 

Part of what has been so difficult in the last few years is his turning on the religion we were raised in. He never took hold of it, was never baptized, although his first wife did as well as his dd who is now 28. But he was never against it. He and his wife had a baby....she began to get serious about the Bible.....was very happy to be in our family and loved loved loved me, my mom and our friends. Brother seemed calm and centered and was also coming back around to our faith when BAM! They just stopped attending, stopped talking to us, un friended us and all our friends and their friends ( of our faith) from FB. Then the attacks on our faith began......and it totally fractured us from him. I mean you just can't have a relationship with someone who is constantly attacking something you hold so dear.

 

My mom has been devastated over it. She and my step,dad had become close to the baby, who is now 5.....and that was lost by reason of my brother and his wife being so against our faith. Brother kept in some contact with us, and I have had some comfort in knowing he is not mentally well.

 

Now his wife is very ill and my brother really is not stable enough to deal with it. Her sister is coming from another state to take care of SIL so brother can take care of their son.

 

He told mom yesterday that the 5 year old said, 'gm still loves us and wants us to be a family'.

 

Mom said, 'that is true, but I just can't listen to the slanderous remarks about < my religion>. I have many friends who are not of my faith yet never say such things to me.'

 

He immediately went into a long example of the evilness ( in his view) of our religion and ended with 'but if you want to be so stupid as to not admit how evil they are go right ahead. we don't need to even discuss religion to be a mom and son who love each other'.

 

Mom said, 'that's true, so why repeat once again what you just said?'

 

And so it goes. I feel bad for my brother. I feel disconnected from my SIL......she cut us off so abruptly and completely and it has been 3 years or so. I live 3 1/2 hours from them. Treatment is another 1 1/2 beyond that....I really don't even know what I could do to help.

 

Even in this conversation....he tells your mom that his son misses her. And she starts on the religion. And then he comes back with his opinion. And then says they can be mother and son without discussing religion. And she brings it back to debating the religion again. 

 

Have you considered that you have a biased opinion?

[Scarlett]

Even in this conversation....he tells your mom that his son misses her. And she starts on the religion. And then he comes back with his opinion. And then says they can be mother and son without discussing religion. And she brings it back to debating the religion again.

 

Have you considered that you have a biased opinion?

My brother is 46 years old and until 3 years ago never said a bad word about our faith. He lived very contrary to the way he was raised but he didn't start the trash talking until about 3 years ago. He didn't just say hey I dont believe this religion is for me. He went on a war path with a vengeance. Every conversation he started with either of us was to tell us how horrible our religion is. There is no way to have a relationship with someone doing that. So there has not been a relationship. So when my brother says his son misses mom, I imagine she felt compelled to establish a boundary. So I am not sure what you are saying exactly.

[Scarlett]

Here is the thing. I do not know his side, and there are a lot of gaps in what happened. BUT...

 

You are very defensive. And for some reason, you have felt the need to go on a hunt, look at pictures and everything, to determine if things were good or bad. You looked at pictures and took that as proof he was clean when he went to school. BUT, how often did he have a picture of him when he was headed to school? And pictures do not really tell if an outfit was clean or dirty. You say you helped your mom "always" BUT..there is something dysfunctional in that. Are you saying in high school, you were either home schooled and never left, or you went to school but returned immediately after and did not go anywhere as you were caring for him, helping her? That, in itself is dysfunctional. But if you say, no, you had friends, activities, a job, and even went to church, then how much were you there to see what went on with him? And did you leave to go to college or marry? Or did you live at home until 23 yrs old? As you said she gave up on him at 19 yrs old and you are 4 years older. So were you home, caring for him full-time or observing how full time?

 

He says religion was used against him by your mother. You say not. BUT, you and his mother seem extremely upset that he turned away from your religion. And you say he has bipolar, but has he been to the doctor and gotten the DX, or have you simply been told that by your mother or guessed it? And even if someone has bipolar disorder, it does not automatically mean he is lying or imagining things. And bipolar is largely genetic. So if one person in the family has it, there is a big chance another has it. Is it possible your mother has it and you saw one side of her and he saw another?

 

These are just things to think about. I am not saying you are wrong or that he is wrong. I am just saying that, there are enough questions in what you post. Especially the fact that these seems to be a need to control his view point and his religion even now, even though he is an adult, who is married, and has a child.

It is dysfunctional to go to school, come home and take care of your younger sibling until your single mom gets home an hour and a half later? We were all together a lot. I am still very close friends with many many families who knew us growing up. Every single one of them says we were not dirty. And if you are calling me defensive because I went asking those questions and looking at family photos....i do sometimes feel a little discombulated after a conversation with my brother...I feel like I need to make sure I am not remembering things incorrectly.

 

I don't recall saying my mom gave up on him when he was 13. Maybe in this two year old thread I did say that....but I don't think so. When I got married they at the same time made a move and my brother began drinking and smoking and doing drugs and lying to mom and defying her at every turn. She did a lot to try to help him during that time. We now can see he was probably self medicating the symptoms of mental illness which of course only made things worse.

 

He got married, had kids, went through cycle after cycle of up and down and was finally diagnosed when he was in his early 30s I think. We had a relationship with him all of those years. My mom especially helped him and his first wife a lot in various ways when my brother was in a down phase. During all,of that time he wasn't living the religion he was raised in. At all.

 

I am not sure why you think we are trying to control him or his viewpoint or his choice of what religion if any he is. The only thing I ask of my brother is to stop the trash talking. And it is impossible to explain just how bad it is or how long he can go on even with no reply. And that seems to be what my mom was saying to him too. Stop bad mouthing my faith to me.

[Scarlett]

That's so hard :grouphug: .

 

You probably know this, but when someone with mental health issues encounters something devastating, it can get really dicey. I've seen it over and over among my relatives. Their emotions can get clouded up, and they forget to take their medicine. They can conjure up thoughts that have no bearing with reality, much more so than otherwise.

Yes I do know it and I am very worried. There is just so little I can actually do.

[Scarlett]

Here is the thing. I do not know his side, and there are a lot of gaps in what happened. BUT...

 

You are very defensive. And for some reason, you have felt the need to go on a hunt, look at pictures and everything, to determine if things were good or bad. You looked at pictures and took that as proof he was clean when he went to school. BUT, how often did he have a picture of him when he was headed to school? And pictures do not really tell if an outfit was clean or dirty. You say you helped your mom "always" BUT..there is something dysfunctional in that. Are you saying in high school, you were either home schooled and never left, or you went to school but returned immediately after and did not go anywhere as you were caring for him, helping her? That, in itself is dysfunctional. But if you say, no, you had friends, activities, a job, and even went to church, then how much were you there to see what went on with him? And did you leave to go to college or marry? Or did you live at home until 23 yrs old? As you said she gave up on him at 19 yrs old and you are 4 years older. So were you home, caring for him full-time or observing how full time?

 

He says religion was used against him by your mother. You say not. BUT, you and his mother seem extremely upset that he turned away from your religion. And you say he has bipolar, but has he been to the doctor and gotten the DX, or have you simply been told that by your mother or guessed it? And even if someone has bipolar disorder, it does not automatically mean he is lying or imagining things. And bipolar is largely genetic. So if one person in the family has it, there is a big chance another has it. Is it possible your mother has it and you saw one side of her and he saw another?

 

These are just things to think about. I am not saying you are wrong or that he is wrong. I am just saying that, there are enough questions in what you post. Especially the fact that these seems to be a need to control his view point and his religion even now, even though he is an adult, who is married, and has a child.

He is actually married to wife number 4 and has three children....two are adults.

 

And yes I know BP is genetic. His half brother on his dad's side has paranoia schizophrenia and has been institionalized since he was 19.

 

And again, no one is trying to control his viewpoint. I just want to control what goes into my ears, especially since he just repeats the same hate filled view over and over.

[goldberry]

So. My brothers wife has cancer, she went in for hemorrhoid surgery last Friday and came out with a cancer diagnosis. It is anal....and I think very very bad. They have a 5 year old. My brother is out of his mind with grief.

 

I'm so sorry... how difficult when the situation is already so agitated....

[Janeway]

My brother is 46 years old and until 3 years ago never said a bad word about our faith. He lived very contrary to the way he was raised but he didn't start the trash talking until about 3 years ago. He didn't just say hey I dont believe this religion is for me. He went on a war path with a vengeance. Every conversation he started with either of us was to tell us how horrible our religion is. There is no way to have a relationship with someone doing that. So there has not been a relationship. So when my brother says his son misses mom, I imagine she felt compelled to establish a boundary. So I am not sure what you are saying exactly.

All I am saying is, very few details, it can go either way.

 

But, really, it sounds like you should CO him.

[maize]

Hugs Scarlett, I know you care a lot about your brother in spite of all the weirdness he throws out. Cancer is such an awful disease :( Does his wife have family on her side who will be there to support her and the family through this?

[Scarlett]

All I am saying is, very few details, it can go either way.

 

 

 

But, really, it sounds like you should CO him.

What is CO?

[Scarlett]

Hugs Scarlett, I know you care a lot about your brother in spite of all the weirdness he throws out. Cancer is such an awful disease :( Does his wife have family on her side who will be there to support her and the family through this?

 

Some I think. 3 years ago her family was cut off....they wanted nothing to do with them..today her cousin took her for her PET SCAN. Her sister is coming for longer treatment,

[Scarlett]

Stage two. I am shocked. I expected 3 at minimum .....really I expected 4.

 

But the treatment sounds ominous.

[Guest]

Hey that's good news in cancer land :)

[Scarlett]

Hey that's good news in cancer land :)

Yes I agree.

[Seasider]

Stage two. I am shocked. I expected 3 at minimum .....really I expected 4.

 

But the treatment sounds ominous.

I had a friend who went through a similar diagnosis a number of years ago, but stage 3 I think. The treatment was arduous, chemo (or maybe radiation, I can't remember now) first to shrink the tumor, surgery, colostomy and more chemo, colostomy reversal and eventual recovery. It was a long, very tedious process. I don't mean to discourage you with these details, but to say that it is likely not going to be a quick treatment plan. She will need long term help and I hope your brother will find the support he needs to see her through it. I hope her sister is able to stick around a while.

[Scarlett]

I had a friend who went through a similar diagnosis a number of years ago, but stage 3 I think. The treatment was arduous, chemo (or maybe radiation, I can't remember now) first to shrink the tumor, surgery, colostomy and more chemo, colostomy reversal and eventual recovery. It was a long, very tedious process. I don't mean to discourage you with these details, but to say that it is likely not going to be a quick treatment plan. She will need long term help and I hope your brother will find the support he needs to see her through it. I hope her sister is able to stick around a while.

That sounds like what he described to me briefly last night. He was exhausted....which I know happens to him during emotional times.

[PrincessMommy]

He is actually married to wife number 4 and has three children....two are adults.

 

And yes I know BP is genetic. His half brother on his dad's side has paranoia schizophrenia and has been institionalized since he was 19.

 

And again, no one is trying to control his viewpoint. I just want to control what goes into my ears, especially since he just repeats the same hate filled view over and over.

 

I think you and your mom are absolutely right in setting boundaries, especially when someone is being vitriolic about something you hold dear.  It seems pretty clear to me that he is intent on breaking the boundaries and even the mention of said boundaries set him off.    How sad, esp given the health crisis they're going through right now.  

[StephanieZ]

I had a friend who went through a similar diagnosis a number of years ago, but stage 3 I think. The treatment was arduous, chemo (or maybe radiation, I can't remember now) first to shrink the tumor, surgery, colostomy and more chemo, colostomy reversal and eventual recovery. It was a long, very tedious process. I don't mean to discourage you with these details, but to say that it is likely not going to be a quick treatment plan. She will need long term help and I hope your brother will find the support he needs to see her through it. I hope her sister is able to stick around a while.

 

I, too, have a friend who has survived rectal cancer. Similarly, chemo, surgery, colostomy . . . but after a year or so, he was deemed cancer free. The extensive treatments consumed about a year, but since then, he's been well. I hope the same goes for your sister-in-law. (((hugs)))

[Heatherwith4]

Stage 2 is good news. I'm sorry they are having to deal with it at all though, especially on top of his mental illness.

[Scarlett]

I, too, have a friend who has survived rectal cancer. Similarly, chemo, surgery, colostomy . . . but after a year or so, he was deemed cancer free. The extensive treatments consumed about a year, but since then, he's been well. I hope the same goes for your sister-in-law. (((hugs)))

It has only been a week since the surgeon said he found what he was sure was cancer. They have already got the biopsy back, met with the oncologist, had her PET scan and met with oncologist again for results and treatment plan. To me that is moving at warp speed. They are concerned because it is such an aggressive type of cancer.

 

As a side note my brother first told me it was colon cancer, then rectal and then said it is anal. I don't know much about it all...but when I google the cancer she has it typically comes up as anal. And the doctor said it is a rare cancer.

 

Of course I am getting all my info from my brother and he isn't always the best at relaying info.

[Scarlett]

Oh woe, Scarlett. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

Thank you Rosie.

[StephanieZ]

It has only been a week since the surgeon said he found what he was sure was cancer. They have already got the biopsy back, met with the oncologist, had her PET scan and met with oncologist again for results and treatment plan. To me that is moving at warp speed. They are concerned because it is such an aggressive type of cancer.

 

As a side note my brother first told me it was colon cancer, then rectal and then said it is anal. I don't know much about it all...but when I google the cancer she has it typically comes up as anal. And the doctor said it is a rare cancer.

 

Of course I am getting all my info from my brother and he isn't always the best at relaying info.

 

FWIW, my friend had advanced cancer, too. I never asked for official staging, etc, but I know it was very serious whatever the stage. Their family had actually JUST moved cross-country that month, and when they learned of the diagnosis and complications with their insurance coverage (no participating oncologist for MANY miles around, despite it being a policy the'd bought in their new state), they packed up and moved back to where they'd lived (for many years) previously . . . because there they could access a participating oncologist in their "home" town and also because they had a deep support system of homeschooling and other friends . . . They'd previously JUST sold their home for the move and rented a home in their new town (nearer family), but they literally sold most of their stuff, loaded up in a moving truck, and returned to their prior home just to access reliable medical care . . . They moved into a temporary residence in a home for friends who were out of town long term (sabbatical or similar) . . .  He was getting chemo within days/short weeks of the first diagnosis and surgery within weeks of the first diagnosis . . . It DID move very fast, and I think they were VERY scared. It seemed so urgent/critical to me (from the outside) that I assumed his was very advanced and that survival was not expected . . . But, he MADE IT. So, anyway, have hope.  (((hugs)))

[Scarlett]

News isn't good. SILs treatments were suppose to be over next week..but this past Thursday they examined her ( I don't know if it was just a physical exam or another PET scan or what)...and they said the tumor is not shrinking as much as they had hoped and she will have to have 4-6 weeks more of treatment. Her cousin tookfamily leave to be with her these last 6 weeks or so....and the day before bad news the cousin was saying how she was glad she had just enough pay built up to last through the treatment....so now I don't know what is going to happen....who will go stay with her now.

 

My brother and her are having severe relationship issues. He said she is horrible mean to him and has been since before the diagnosis. I think they just don't have the skills to deal with this life changing disease. But things are very bad. My brother is convinced she is going to die. Resigned to it. Not telling her that but he tells me that.

[Harriet Vane]

:grouphug:

[Heatherwith4]

:grouphug:

[idnib]

I'm sorry the news wasn't as good as hoped.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[mamiof5]

I'm sorry :( Hope things get better soon!

[ThisIsTheDay]

:grouphug:  Scarlett, I am so sorry to hear about his wife. I know you have been terribly concerned about his mental health for quite a while and have been walking a tightrope in order to maintain some sort of contact with him. You said he is resigned to her dying from this. I hope this doesn't trigger further paranoia for him. And that poor baby caught in the middle of chaos all around . . . :(

 

[Scarlett]

:grouphug:  Scarlett, I am so sorry to hear about his wife. I know you have been terribly concerned about his mental health for quite a while and have been walking a tightrope in order to maintain some sort of contact with him. You said he is resigned to her dying from this. I hope this doesn't trigger further paranoia for him. And that poor baby caught in the middle of chaos all around . . . :(

 

 

Oddly....he seems hyper focused on caring for his 5 year old.  He takes him to school every morning, picks him up at night, keeps a semblance of normal going for the two of them.

[PrincessMommy]

I'm sorry the recents tests didn't have happier news. Hugs