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Grown sibling woes Update my brother unhinged


Scarlett
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It is very easy to get caught up in conversations with him....he is my brother and I love him....that is why I posted to you all....I need some perspective. However, I do not believe there is anything I can do to help him.

 

I would keep the line of communication open, without falling for his bait to get you into an argumentative discussion. But if he gives you any reason to suspect he is in imminent danger, you would have a bit of documentation for asking police to do a wellness check. Might want to screen shot the texts to date.

 

Sorry you are dealing with this.

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You don't have to turn him in or anything; you can call the police non-emergency line. Just explain that your brother has a history of mental illness and request a welfare check.

He would know it was me. He does have a wife......I will have to leave his welfare in her hands unless I hear something more concrete.

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No way he would fall for that.

What would he fall for?  Can you respond with something that does sound like you are halfway considering some aspect of what he said? Something like "So, what do you want me to do, leave my religion and help you hunt terrorists? You know I can't leave my family." or anything that could help you gauge his level of commitment to action?

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I would keep the line of communication open, without falling for his bait to get you into an argumentative discussion. But if he gives you any reason to suspect he is in imminent danger, you would have a bit of documentation for asking police to do a wellness check. Might want to screen shot the texts to date.

 

Sorry you are dealing with this.

I have copied and pasted his texts into a document.

 

I have kept in very limited contact. I will wait a few days and then make idle chit chat about the weather or some such.

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What would he fall for? Can you respond with something that does sound like you are halfway considering some aspect of what he said? Something like "So, what do you want me to do, leave my religion and help you hunt terrorists? You know I can't leave my family." or anything that could help you gauge his level of commitment to action?

He will fall for idle chit chat after a few days. I might then mention to him I saw something on the news about the training camp he thinks he has found. It was on the news.....but determined to not be real.

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Ok I will do that. If anyone has quoted his texts please delete.

yes, please delete quotes from his texts.

 

I've seen too many people get outted here by family members looking for them.  If your brother is a paranoid and on the computer as he seems to be, then it stands to reason he might find this thread.

 

I'm so sorry.

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Scarlett, my father had a psychotic break when I was in my early twenties. It was terrifying, but there was no reasoning with him. My mother tried the reasonable route. I called his doctor who had recently changed his medication, which had set off the psychotic break. At my father's next appointment, the doctor revealed my concern (I was livid about that!) and convinced my dad to stop the med. My father got better quickly. You can't reason with people who are psychotic, you can't talk then out of it. I'm not saying that your brother is, but if that is what is going on, you have to stop talking and contact the people (police, doctors, friends) who can help him.

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But what can they really do?

 

They can advise you if there is a course of action you can take that might be helpful. He might be known to them already if he's mentally unstable. If his wife or someone else calls in about him, they may have a file on him already and your report could add to it. Someone may have already called in about him. DH's group has a database that they access and log in each call. So let's say that a friend of a friend has called in already and talked to someone. Then you call. And maybe a month from now, there's an incident that involves the police (trespassing on one of these places he's "hunting down" maybe?). At some point, they may have enough information that they can get him into treatment. I'm not sure how the mental health system works where he lives, but it can't hurt. The worst they can do is not take you seriously and tell you they can't do anything to help, but at least you've tried. I'm sorry you're dealing with this!!!

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Perhaps your loser dad was also mentally ill.  People who are mentally ill are not always rational and can be confused.  Of course it is possible you are the one who has rewritten your childhood but it sounds like others who were there agree with you not him.

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IMHO, I think you should call his local police and let them know that the "terrorist training camp" and "extremist Pakistani cleric" might be targets. It would be horrible if he did attack them. Other than that, I think Faith is probably right and you have a mental health issue on your hands. I don't know if it's feasible for you to do anything about it or not.

 

:grouphug:

 

He's having a manic episode, a bad one. This is the kind of stuff that every bipolar person I know has spouted when having a bad break with reality. That he says you will be "safe" there concerns me....it makes me wonder if he has weapons. If he's this unstable he should NOT have weapons. He could shoot his own family, thinking they are aliens, or whatever. Please contact the police, and his wife. 

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Well, the thing is There are not any Muslims in that area of the country. I don't think. So I don't worry about him attacking an innocent family....but I know about the one "terrorist training camp" he thinks he has found. Not sure what it is but a lot of the conspirators have been jabbering about it.

 

He is home all day and has nothing better to do than search Googleearth. So strange.

 

But see, just because someone isn't a muslim doesn't mean he might not THINK they are one, in his delusions. He still could attack someone. When someone is this far out of their mind they don't make sense. 

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But see, just because someone isn't a muslim doesn't mean he might not THINK they are one, in his delusions. He still could attack someone. When someone is this far out of their mind they don't make sense.

Well he does have weapons. Lots of weapons. And a wife and a 4 year old.

 

So everyone agrees he sounds unhinged, unstable and manic?

 

Does everyone agree he sounds dangerous? Because I am not sure about the dangerous part. I don't want to drag people into this who know him if I can avoid it.

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Perhaps your loser dad was also mentally ill. People who are mentally ill are not always rational and can be confused. Of course it is possible you are the one who has rewritten your childhood but it sounds like others who were there agree with you not him.

Oddly enough I don't think my dad was mentally ill...I think he suffers from a very abusive childhood and became an addict early in his life ( alcohol) and it destroyed his brain and body. He had a brother who WAS mentally ill....and dad has a son who is a paranoid schizophrenic. He is institionalized. ( this is my brothers half brother) .

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Oddly enough I don't think my dad was mentally ill...I think he suffers from a very abusive childhood and became an addict early in his life ( alcohol) and it destroyed his brain and body. He had a brother who WAS mentally ill....and dad has a son who is a paranoid schizophrenic. He is institionalized. ( this is my brothers half brother) .

 

Isn't it your half brother as well? Your dad's son?

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Well he does have weapons. Lots of weapons. And a wife and a 4 year old.

 

So everyone agrees he sounds unhinged, unstable and manic?

 

Does everyone agree he sounds dangerous? Because I am not sure about the dangerous part. I don't want to drag people into this who know him if I can avoid it.

 

He sounds absolutely dangerous. I have a close friend with Bipolar, and a friend of the family who is bipolar. When they have a break like this, they can lose all touch with reality. There is NO WAY they should be around weapons. None. 

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He sounds absolutely dangerous. I have a close friend with Bipolar, and a friend of the family who is bipolar. When they have a break like this, they can lose all touch with reality. There is NO WAY they should be around weapons. None.

:(

 

I want to get my moms opinion but I am trying to shield her from this. It just upsets her so much....she is 70 and doesn't need this crap.

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I would absolutely worry about the weapons part, especially for his wife and child. I would contact local law enforcement at the least and discuss the situation with them.

 

I live with a spouse who suffers from chronic depression, there is No WAY I would allow a gun in this house. Ever. Not because of any specific incident or threat, just because he is not always rational and irrationality and weapons do not mix. I would be 100% more concerned if he were bipolar.

 

(Don't want a gun for other reasons as well, but this is a huge one.)

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Well he does have weapons. Lots of weapons. And a wife and a 4 year old.

 

So everyone agrees he sounds unhinged, unstable and manic?

 

Does everyone agree he sounds dangerous? Because I am not sure about the dangerous part. I don't want to drag people into this who know him if I can avoid it.

 

Yes, he sounds dangerous. He sounds like he's not going out and doing anything about his delusions... yet. He's in the "preparation and protection" stage, and that could slip in to the "action and self-defense" stage at any given moment from pretty much any imagined trigger.

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Update in post 69

 

My brother has always been....churning. Never happy. Never settled. His perspective of our childhood is as if we were raised by two different mothers. We weren't. We were raised by the same mom and we are only 4 1/2 years apart....I am older.

 

He wants to blame his childhood for all of his troubles. He has memories that I am 100% sure did not happen. Things like saying mom sent him to school with filthy clothes....My mom was very very clean. My earliest memory of her was her in a freezing detached garage washing my brothers cloth diapers in a old wringer washing machine. Her hands would be so cold they were numb. I remember her running back to the house with her icy hands tucked up under her armpits.

 

Anyway, I asked several of our childhood friends who are my friends age....is there any truth to this? The laughed. No they said, he was never sent to school in dirty clothes. Ever.

 

Other similar things...like mom locked him out of the house if he wasn't in from playing by dark. This was when he was about 8. First my mom never locked the door during that time in our life. But second No! She didn't lock him out.

 

Now the latest is he is obsessing about our religion. He is sure that is the cause of all our troubles.

 

He is exhausting me. I just am tired of listening to him dog our entire childhood and our mom. I know she made mistakes...I know she isn't perfect...but she is a GOOD woman who devoted herself to raising us on her own because our dad was a loser.

 

Oh and the big thing he keeps harping on right now is that he was raised to believe God hates him. I have no words to even explain how insane this sounds to ME...his SISTER who raised right along side him. At no time in my entire life was I ever told that God hates me. Ever. I will assume his feelings are real and that he isn't making them up...but HOW did he get that from the childhood we had?

 

How do two people come from the same home with such wildly different versions?

That's really weird. 

 

One time I had a birthday party for an elderly relative who was raised by a foster mother.  This relative had many happy memories of that upbringing.  I invited other kids who had grown up with my elderly relative, under the same foster mother.  They said that she beat them and screamed at them.    I was very perplexed by that, and everyone was elderly, so someone wasn't remembering it correctly, or chose to put a positive spin on a negative situation.

 

Here, I have no idea what is going on, but he sounds exhausting.  I have no patience for that kind of thing.  I'd tell him to knock it off and that it didn't happen, unless it only happened ever when you weren't present, which is unlikely.  That "God hates me" stuff would make me question whether he was having psychiatric problems. 

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That's really weird.

 

One time I had a birthday party for an elderly relative who was raised by a foster mother. This relative had many happy memories of that upbringing. I invited other kids who had grown up with my elderly relative, under the same foster mother. They said that she beat them and screamed at them. I was very perplexed by that, and everyone was elderly, so someone wasn't remembering it correctly, or chose to put a positive spin on a negative situation.

 

Here, I have no idea what is going on, but he sounds exhausting. I have no patience for that kind of thing. I'd tell him to knock it off and that it didn't happen, unless it only happened ever when you weren't present, which is unlikely. That "God hates me" stuff would make me question whether he was having psychiatric problems.

You may have missed the update....I quoted a bunch of his recent texts....he is in a serious manic phase and looking for Isis Training camps.

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Well he does have weapons. Lots of weapons. And a wife and a 4 year old.

 

So everyone agrees he sounds unhinged, unstable and manic?

 

Does everyone agree he sounds dangerous? Because I am not sure about the dangerous part. I don't want to drag people into this who know him if I can avoid it.

A heavily armed, manic person with paranoid delusions who is actively and compulsively researching places to potentially attack? Yes, I think that meets dangerous criteria.

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:(

 

I want to get my moms opinion but I am trying to shield her from this. It just upsets her so much....she is 70 and doesn't need this crap.

Are you sure your brother hasn't already told her the things he has told you, and your mom is trying to shield you so you don't get upset?

 

She may know more than you think she knows.

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Scarlett, I have been thinking about this and I have been feeling conflicted about what to suggest you should do because he is your brother and it sounds like you love each other.

 

Would it help to take the word "brother" out of your posts and insert a more neutral term like "neighbor" or "guy from church" or "former co-worker," and then see what you would do if one of those people was telling you the kinds of things your brother is telling you? It's so hard to view things clearly when our emotions are high and we care about the person who is acting crazily.

 

It's easy for all of us to say what we would do because we don't have that emotional attachment. We are only looking at the things he is saying to you and worrying that someone could get hurt. We are probably also worried about how you will feel if you don't do anything and your brother goes off the deep end and hurts people.

 

I'm so sorry you're stuck in the middle of this. :grouphug:

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If you're afraid of contacting the local police because someone there might tip him off, go over their heads.  Contact the FBI.  What your brother is threatening will be considered terrorism, and they will take it seriously without going through the local police.  Or if they do, you'll be two steps removed.

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I'm so sorry you're stuck in the middle of this. :grouphug:

 

Yes, me too. Coming from a family with mental illness, I know how hard this is to navigate. It's hard to know what is serious and what is not. And whether they're a danger to themselves and others.

 

You're in my thoughts and prayers!

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If you're afraid of contacting the local police because someone there might tip him off, go over their heads.  Contact the FBI.  What your brother is threatening will be considered terrorism, and they will take it seriously without going through the local police.  Or if they do, you'll be two steps removed.

 

Has the brother actually threatened to do something? I don't remember Scarlett saying that. Searching Google Earth is not the same as threatening someone, so far the things Scarlett posted seem to indicate this man is afraid of others targeting him/his loved ones and making plans for defense, I did not see anything about planning an offence.

 

Not saying it isn't possible, but I also don't think we should extrapolate too far. 

 

There are many, many people with mental illness in this country.

 

There are also many, many people prepping for disasters and societal breakdown, preparing safe sites, storing food and weapons.

 

Only a tiny minority of either group is an actual danger to those around them.

 

I see signs for concern, but not more than those that a great many other people show. I think contacting law enforcement is a good idea, just to have more people on the alert and to get advice, but to jump to the conclusion that this person is threatening terrorism is I think going too far. Unless I have missed something significant in the discussion.

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Has the brother actually threatened to do something? I don't remember Scarlett saying that. Searching Google Earth is not the same as threatening someone, so far the things Scarlett posted seem to indicate this man is afraid of others targeting him/his loved ones and making plans for defense, I did not see anything about planning an offence.

 

Not saying it isn't possible, but I also don't think we should extrapolate too far.

 

There are many, many people with mental illness in this country.

 

There are also many, many people prepping for disasters and societal breakdown, preparing safe sites, storing food and weapons.

 

Only a tiny minority of either group is an actual danger to those around them.

 

I see signs for concern, but not more than those that a great many other people show. I think contacting law enforcement is a good idea, just to have more people on the alert and to get advice, but to jump to the conclusion that this person is threatening terrorism is I think going too far. Unless I have missed something significant in the discussion.

I re read the texts and he has not threatened anyone. He is more about Intel and defending his loved ones.

 

Dh doesn't think I should contact anyone other than his wife for now.

 

He is texting me again this morning.

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I see signs for concern, but not more than those that a great many other people show. I think contacting law enforcement is a good idea, just to have more people on the alert and to get advice, but to jump to the conclusion that this person is threatening terrorism is I think going too far. Unless I have missed something significant in the discussion.

 

You may have missed where he is diagnosed bi-polar and is currently not stable in his treatment. I have a cousin in law who makes similar statements, but is not mentally ill, just an attention seeker and rather unintelligent. I'm not scared he's going to do anything. But a person in the throes of uncontrolled mania? Totally different. One of the NICEST, most pacifistic women I know had a pyschotic break in front of me, and I assure you, if she'd had access to weapons she would have been a danger to herself and others. She was seeing people that were not there, and arguing with them. 

 

Another friend is also bipolar, and before he got on meds had similar delusions to the OP's brother. Had he had access to weapons I don't know what would have happened. At best, possibly suicide. 

 

We as a society talk about mental health and gun violence. Trust me, an unmedicated, or at least unstable person with bipolar who is having delusions of terrorist threats is pretty much the poster child of who should not have access to a gun. 

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Has the brother actually threatened to do something? I don't remember Scarlett saying that. Searching Google Earth is not the same as threatening someone, so far the things Scarlett posted seem to indicate this man is afraid of others targeting him/his loved ones and making plans for defense, I did not see anything about planning an offence.

 

Not saying it isn't possible, but I also don't think we should extrapolate too far.

 

There are many, many people with mental illness in this country.

 

There are also many, many people prepping for disasters and societal breakdown, preparing safe sites, storing food and weapons.

 

Only a tiny minority of either group is an actual danger to those around them.

 

I see signs for concern, but not more than those that a great many other people show. I think contacting law enforcement is a good idea, just to have more people on the alert and to get advice, but to jump to the conclusion that this person is threatening terrorism is I think going too far. Unless I have missed something significant in the discussion.

:iagree:

 

I definitely missed some of the posts that quoted the texts, and maybe there was something in them that led people to believe that Scarlett's brother is an immediate danger to others, but the things I read sounded more like an extremely paranoid man concerned for his family and wanting to let his sister know she would be safe with him if something bad happens. I am concerned about the "looking for training camps" thing, but has he said that he and his friends were going to take action against anyone? Is there a chance that the brother meant that they would find the camps and report them to the authorities? Has he threatened any kind of violence, other than saying he would protect his family in the event of some sort of attack?

 

I'm not suggesting that Scarlett's brother is behaving normally or rationally. It's clear that he is mentally ill. I just don't know if Scarlett should be sending the police out to check on him based on the things he has said so far (and again, I may have missed something important because I know I missed several quotes.) I guess I'm kind of worried that having the police show up at his door might scare him into doing something crazy, when right now he doesn't seem to be threatening violence against anyone. I honestly don't know what I would do if faced with Scarlett's situation.

 

Scarlett has always seemed like a very sensible woman, and she knows her brother and we don't, so I will trust her judgment on this, whatever she decides to do. She is certainly in a terrible spot right now. :(

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I re read the texts and he has not threatened anyone. He is more about Intel and defending his loved ones.

 

Dh doesn't think I should contact anyone other than his wife for now.

 

He is texting me again this morning.

 defending them from whom? Will he decide the guy delivering menus door to door is a terroist?

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defending them from whom? Will he decide the guy delivering menus door to door is a terroist?

He specifically said if anarchy ensues they will be evacuating to a safe place. He sounds more survivalist to me than anything.

 

But I agree he is fixated and delusional. I just don't see an outright threat that he has made. I just can't imagine calling the police in our home town where he is a former bail bonds man....so he knows all the police....and saying hey my brother is scaring me. It will get back to him that it came from me and I don't want to deal with him.

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You may have missed where he is diagnosed bi-polar and is currently not stable in his treatment. I have a cousin in law who makes similar statements, but is not mentally ill, just an attention seeker and rather unintelligent. I'm not scared he's going to do anything. But a person in the throes of uncontrolled mania? Totally different. One of the NICEST, most pacifistic women I know had a pyschotic break in front of me, and I assure you, if she'd had access to weapons she would have been a danger to herself and others. She was seeing people that were not there, and arguing with them.

 

Another friend is also bipolar, and before he got on meds had similar delusions to the OP's brother. Had he had access to weapons I don't know what would have happened. At best, possibly suicide.

 

We as a society talk about mental health and gun violence. Trust me, an unmedicated, or at least unstable person with bipolar who is having delusions of terrorist threats is pretty much the poster child of who should not have access to a gun.

I agree But he is living in a small town in the south and every body has guns. Absent a direct threat against himself or others, the authorities will do nothing. His wife could insist he get back on his meds....but even then what she can do is limited.

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He specifically said if anarchy ensues they will be evacuating to a safe place. He sounds more survivalist to me than anything.

 

But I agree he is fixated and delusional. I just don't see an outright threat that he has made. I just can't imagine calling the police in our home town where he is a former bail bonds man....so he knows all the police....and saying hey my brother is scaring me. It will get back to him that it came from me and I don't want to deal with him.

Also, if he is friends with the police, they would probably give him the benefit of the doubt and not pay much attention to your call. And even if they went out to talk with him, your brother may be able to talk a very good game and convince them that it's his sister who is crazy and unhinged, and that he is just a regular guy who is concerned about his family.

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He specifically said if anarchy ensues they will be evacuating to a safe place. He sounds more survivalist to me than anything.

 

But I agree he is fixated and delusional. I just don't see an outright threat that he has made. I just can't imagine calling the police in our home town where he is a former bail bonds man....so he knows all the police....and saying hey my brother is scaring me. It will get back to him that it came from me and I don't want to deal with him.

 

I don't blame you Scarlett. Would you mind if I told my DH the basics and see what he recommends? 

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Also, if he is friends with the police, they would probably give him the benefit of the doubt and not pay much attention to your call. And even if they went out to talk with him, your brother may be able to talk a very good game and convince them that it's his sister who is crazy and unhinged, and that he is just a regular guy who is concerned about his family.

This is exactly what I fear. And then he turns on me. Or my parents. I doubt he would but I am nervous.

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Scarlett, can you focus on his medical providers and seeing what they recommend based on his emails?  Your mom may know the name of his doctor and you could call the office and get some professional advice.  

 

Manic depressive bipolar can definitely be a threat to themselves, loved ones and others esp. if he is in a psychotic state.   His doctor can help him. :grouphug:

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Scarlett, can you focus on his medical providers and seeing what they recommend based on his emails? Your mom may know the name of his doctor and you could call the office and get some professional advice.

 

Manic depressive bipolar can definitely be a threat to themselves, loved ones and others esp. if he is in a psychotic state. His doctor can help him. :grouphug:

I don't want to ask mom. She isn't hearing from hm. I asked her today.

 

I know the clinic he has gone to in the past. I could call up there but they can't tell me he is a patient right so how would I know who to talk to? I guess I could just say I want to talk to the counselor who would be interested in hearing about my brother ( give brothers name).

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