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Children being bussed across border illegally. Heard of this?


staceyobu
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Illegal, asylum seekers, refugees, does it really matter?  They are people - just like us.

 

Who among us wouldn't seek something better for our families if we were in their shoes?  

 

Yes, they are. And I imagine every one of us would do whatever we had to do to protect and provide for our families. The problem comes when the rights and needs of one group intersect with the rights and needs of another group. Of course, we must act with compassion toward people in dire straits. But we cannot dismiss the very valid and pressing concerns of citizens here--especially if we hope to have a long-term solution to these problems. Otherwise, anything we do is just another temporary bandaid.

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Yes, they are. And I imagine every one of us would do whatever we had to do to protect and provide for our families. The problem comes when the rights and needs of one group intersect with the rights and needs of another group. Of course, we must act with compassion toward people in dire straits. But we cannot dismiss the very valid and pressing concerns of citizens here--especially if we hope to have a long-term solution to these problems. Otherwise, anything we do is just another temporary bandaid.

 

I just don't really see where there are "very valid and pressing concerns of citizens here" that are conflicting/intersecting to be honest.  I see it far more as "we've got ours, and hey, s___s to be you, but too bad, now go away."

 

Health issues can be dealt with.  They have been in the past and it can happen again.

 

In the meantime, sometimes bandaids come in handy.  That's why they are made.

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I just don't really see where there are "very valid and pressing concerns of citizens here" that are conflicting/intersecting to be honest.  I see it far more as "we've got ours, and hey, s___s to be you, but too bad, now go away."

 

Health issues can be dealt with.  They have been in the past and it can happen again.

 

In the meantime, sometimes bandaids come in handy.  That's why they are made.

 

Health issues are not the only ones as has been discussed here already. I'm simply saying that if you want people to embrace a solution, it helps if you don't disregard their concerns. If only because you're likely to have a better solution in the long run as a result.

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Health issues are not the only ones as has been discussed here already. I'm simply saying that if you want people to embrace a solution, it helps if you don't disregard their concerns. If only because you're likely to have a better solution in the long run as a result.

 

If their concerns truly are valid (like health issues), then I agree.  Those are things that need to be taken care of the same as with anyone.

 

If their concerns are "those dirty people are going to ruin our way of life," I'd give them no more thought than the venom the local KKK spews when it comes around annually.

 

The former are things that need to be thought about and dealt with in the course of helping one another.  The latter?  I doubt you'll ever change them even with loads of evidence/examples of the worth of "those people."  It's like  :banghead: .

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I am wondering if Canada would have any interest in helping as well. It's our problem initially because they arrived here asking for help. But, it's a global problem too and in the long haul, the world as a whole has to get on board with finding solutions.

Not just Canada.  It seems to me that Mexico should help as well.  Afterall, they are passing through Mexico and in some cases given documents that allow them to travel through.  In Mexico, people love to criticize the US for the border crossing deaths and deportations, but offer no solution that includes contributions from Mexicans.  It seems that, if this situation is gng to be seen as a crisis, it should be seen as a crisis of the American Continent or at least North America.

 

Ohdanigirl lives there, I don't, and says that it's not as bad as we think it is. How bad I think it is, is that I went to Nuevo Laredo a few years ago and it was fine. I even considered renting an apartment over there. One day I went and there were armed soldiers standing all over downtown because the gang violence had gotten so bad. I've been to L.A., my dad even took me through South Central in the daytime. The gangs have never gotten so bad that we have armed soldiers downtown. And I saw a professional banner on a bridge, plastic, like a business would buy from Kinko's. It said, "police and military, come work for us instead. We pay better and have benefits for your family.". Now, not being there, I only get conflicting reports. My BIL moved his family out of there, saying it was getting dangerous down there, another BIL's family lives in Aculpolco and wants him to move his family there, saying it's not dangerous in that area.

 

First off, I actually moved back to the states, although I am basically back and forth between the two. Although I say that things aren't the way they are presented in the media, I do not want anyone to think I am saying things are perfect.  My personal opinion is that many parts of Mexico are still dangerous for travelers.  Not so much from cartel violence, but petty theft, robbery, and even violence from individuals. I understand this can happen anywhere, but tourists seem to be easy targets.  There are many reasons, they stand out, sometimes they drink too much (making them vulnerable), jealousy, and even anger.  I have to admit that there is also quite a lot of racism against Americans of all skin colors.  You will meet many American's that will say this is not so, but I beg to differ. Not for this thread, though.

 

What makes me worry about this is the story that the cartels are run by ex special ops, Mexico's version of our SEALs. They asked for a raise, the government refused, they took over some cartels. All gangs, even ours, have talented leaders (if only we could have found a way to use those brains for good). If the Mexican Cartels are being run by ex-special ops, then it truly is a Civil War between two militaries. It's probably going to come down to who has more $, the government, or the international cocaine dealers. It bothers me that all the news frames this as "not a war, just a drug/gang war, as if it's remotely close to our drug and gang war, when it really seems to be a Civil War, with military on both sides. Yes, they use gangs and use drug money. That's not mentioned in any Civil War in our history books, but if it's two military factions fighting over control, then it sounds like any other Civil War in history.

That Evian Conference was new to me. Shows me I don't know my countries history that well. All I knew was about our veterans and everybody giving 110%, Rosie and the girls going to work, the depression, and the industrial revolution. Makes me wonder if this mess does go really bad (too soon to tell) if historians will lump our recent economy with the War (if it does go there). I also have always lived in what I was told was the modern times, more diplomatic, supposedly different and more modern than any other time. Apparently last time, we refused refugees, and then went to a world war against Hitler until it was done. What will we do this time, if the situation continues to escalate? Has humanity learned enough, is America suave enough, to "think" our way out of this one. Of course, since all the stories are conflicting, maybe it's not as bad as all that. I still wouldn't compare unorganized school shootings with military and police composed drug cartels.

 

There is proof that this is happening.  It is nothing new, though.  It has been common knowledge, even when I was a child in the 80's, that cartels have high ranking officials, police chiefs, soldiers, etc working for and within their groups.  It seem that the reason people are so concerned now is the huge increase in violence.  Cartels do away with those that cross them in terrible public ways used to warn others.  It is scary.  It escalates every few years when there is a power struggle due to a death or arrest of a high ranking cartel member.  

 

As for the soldiers coming into cities, I have met many people that are appalled by this.  It is important for us to understand that we see things from a different view point with our experiences influencing how we see the same thing.  In Mexico, the military isn't what the US military is.  When was the last time Mexico had to deal with and invading force?  My point is, people in Mexico are used to seeing military forces driving around, just like we see police driving around.  They adopt streets and do clean ups.  They have check points to check for drunk drivers, drugs, and fruit from other parts of Mexico.  We would be horrified if this was going on in the US, but in Mexico they seem to be used as support for local police quite often.  Maybe even as a check and balance type system.  When the Military is brought in to completely replace police while the police force is restructured, people know things have gotten more serious. At the same time, people feel it has worked.  It has been seen as a sign that the government is cracking down on police corruption.  I am not saying people see everything as wonderful.  Feelings are very mixed.  Sometimes people are hopeful, sometimes not so much.  Others don't care either way as long as they are not directly affected.  It is very common for people here to say that Mexicans are conformist, but they don't want any one else saying it.  All this to say that there are just so many ways to interpret the situation.

 

But wasn't this discussed up thread? IIRC, there has to be particular circumstances to be considered refugees/asylum seekers, and they don't meet those requirements as they are currently defined.

 

The whole thing is just a mess. I wish there were an easy solution. In the meantime, these kids are stuck in limbo.

 

 

We've discussed what a refugee is. An asylum seeker is an individual seeking protection. They are called asylum seekers while their claims are being processed.

 

I would post more links but I'm on my iPad and it keeps eating my posts. But here is a link to how it is one in Sweden (link is in English :))

 

http://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/Protection-and-asylum-in-Sweden/Asylum-regulations.html

Thank you for the link.  I think it is a wonderful idea to try to educate myself on the differences.  I may be wrong, but some of these people may qualify to seek Asylum.  As I understand it, they would be sent back once things are deemed better in their home country.

 

Another thing to ponder, if these immigrants ( whichever label you prefer) are only fleeing the dangers at home, why not seek asylum in Mexico when they first arrive?  Probably because they know Mexico will likely deport, and there is this idea floating around in Latin America that everything will be handed to you for free once you arrive in the US. The American dream is sold in such an unrealistic way by coyotes and those who have made the trip. It make it very attractive to risk your life getting to the US.   

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The first child I sponsored in Honduras left the program. I'm wondering if he may have succumbed to gang pressure. And I'm guessing that's another concern for sponsoring agencies. They probably have to find an area that is somewhat safer to operate effectively.

 

 

I like you suggestion above. That would be great, if people could choose to support a child who is being deported. But who would arrange it? Who would step in and arrange something like that effectively and efficiently? I bet if someone or some organization could do it, there would be plenty of Americans who would step up to the plate and help.

 

If you sponsored a child from a very poor family, God Bless you for that. Many years ago, I had a maid who had a younger sister that was in the Foster Parents Plan, or some other program. here in Colombia.  

 

You simply have NO idea about how much help USD$10 or $20 a month can provide for a child from an incredibly poor family, here in Colombia or in another Latin American country.

 

In the case of the former maid and her sister, they live in a very rural area, 2 or 3 hours South of Cali and there are (or were) guerrilla there.  I remember that maid speaking with such appreciation of the family who was helping her little sister.

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Thank you for the link. I think it is a wonderful idea to try to educate myself on the differences. I may be wrong, but some of these people may qualify to seek Asylum. As I understand it, they would be sent back once things are deemed better in their home country.

 

 

Some do. Some don't. We had a wave of people in the 70s/80s from Iran and Chile for example. Some of these have returned, especially to Chile. However many have stayed and now form the backbone of the Spanish teachers here :). But there are programs to help people return, yes.

 

ETA here is a link with information on repatriation http://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/Protection-and-asylum-in-Sweden/Repatriation.html

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I'm reminded of this poem:

 

Give me your tired, your poor.

Your huddled masses yearning to breath free.

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the hopeless, tempest, tost to me.

I lift my lamp beside the golden shore.

 

If America has no desire to help frightened, suffering, homeless, vulnerable children, then possibly it's time to knock Lady Liberty into New York Harbor and let her sink.

 

My family and I have been reciting this poem these past couple days.

 

So, so sad. :(  I feel really helpless. I wish there was a facility in our community similar to the one you describe. We've also got many people who would be grateful for jobs helping these children, and existing programs designed to help children of migrant workers and recent Spanish-speaking immigrants, which could surely be expanded to help.

 

Cat

 

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If you sponsored a child from a very poor family, God Bless you for that. Many years ago, I had a maid who had a younger sister that was in the Foster Parents Plan, or some other program. here in Colombia.  

 

You simply have NO idea about how much help USD$10 or $20 a month can provide for a child from an incredibly poor family, here in Colombia or in another Latin American country.

 

In the case of the former maid and her sister, they live in a very rural area, 2 or 3 hours South of Cali and there are (or were) guerrilla there.  I remember that maid speaking with such appreciation of the family who was helping her little sister.

 

Thank you for posting this, Lanny. Our family sponsors a child in Colombia. We have sometimes wondered how helpful these programs are to communities, and chose to sponsor specifically because we want to support programs that help provide safe places for children and support families staying together. I cannot imagine how heartbreaking it must be for parents and children to feel there is no choice but to separate. We are considering sponsoring another child from Honduras or one of the other countries sending children in overwhelming numbers in hopes that we can continue to support programs that might help even one more family feel that there's another option. It just seems like such a tiny drop in the bucket. :(

 

Cat

 

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Yes, they are. And I imagine every one of us would do whatever we had to do to protect and provide for our families. The problem comes when the rights and needs of one group intersect with the rights and needs of another group. Of course, we must act with compassion toward people in dire straits. But we cannot dismiss the very valid and pressing concerns of citizens here--especially if we hope to have a long-term solution to these problems. Otherwise, anything we do is just another temporary bandaid.

 

I completely agree with this.

 

But I also believe that right now, in the immediacy of this crisis, we need a bandaid while we work on long-term solutions to the problem. We need to feed, house, clothe, treat, and educate these children while they're with us, and pitch in to find people and places who can handle the load because it's the right thing to do. As another poster pointed out, bandaids serve a purpose.

 

But while all that is being put together, we can't just stop there. We must use this crisis as a catalyst for some serious immigration reform. I just wish I knew what that looks like. I've been reading until my eyes cross, but this is something with which I am not very familiar and it's so complicated. I wish there were easier answers. :(

 

Cat

 

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If you sponsored a child from a very poor family, God Bless you for that. Many years ago, I had a maid who had a younger sister that was in the Foster Parents Plan, or some other program. here in Colombia.

 

You simply have NO idea about how much help USD$10 or $20 a month can provide for a child from an incredibly poor family, here in Colombia or in another Latin American country.

 

In the case of the former maid and her sister, they live in a very rural area, 2 or 3 hours South of Cali and there are (or were) guerrilla there. I remember that maid speaking with such appreciation of the family who was helping her little sister.

Lanny, do you know which organizations are the most reputable, keep their over head costs low so most of the money goes directly to the children? I'm more than willing to put my money where my mouth is. We have a child in India and one in Russia that we support, now it's time to add a Central American child to our long distance family. But, I've never worked with the usual child support groups. One of our children is one that a dear friend from doctor friend who has a clinic overseas and needed help with meds for his care so the money is sent directly to friend, the other is with Little Lamb Ministries out of Wheaton/Carol Stream, IL. and that money pays for a child who had aged out of the orphanage and would have been homeless, probably picked up for sex trafficking, but the money pays for her clothing, school fees, food, and personal supplies so that the loving family who took her in can afford to keep her. We give additional good size supplement every quarter to help their biological children. They were not in a position to take in another mouth to feed without assistance but willing volunteered to do anything they could and do a wonderful job fostering her.

 

So, I am not at all familiar with the larger organizations.

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No, I'm pretty sure it was directed at me because I wrote: "However, sending your kids illegally, because you are here illegally... and putting your kids at extreme risk en route.... I just have a really hard time with it.  I don't want any children hurt.  But... crap.  It all just really upsets me.  My feelings about this are complicated."

 
Having complicated emotions about complex issues isn't PC, I guess.  Whatever.  At least it's emotionally honest.  It doesn't make me evil, selfish, or racist.  It makes me human with real emotions and visceral reactions to certain scenarios.  It also makes me someone who is saying what other people are thinking but choose not to express.

 

Wrong. My comment was addressed at no one in particular. The only exceptions on this thread are when I quoted someone and replied to them specifically. 

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If you sponsored a child from a very poor family, God Bless you for that. Many years ago, I had a maid who had a younger sister that was in the Foster Parents Plan, or some other program. here in Colombia.  

 

You simply have NO idea about how much help USD$10 or $20 a month can provide for a child from an incredibly poor family, here in Colombia or in another Latin American country.

 

In the case of the former maid and her sister, they live in a very rural area, 2 or 3 hours South of Cali and there are (or were) guerrilla there.  I remember that maid speaking with such appreciation of the family who was helping her little sister.

 

Lanny, could you recommend a sponsor program?  I googled 'foster parents plan columbia' and didn't find anything.  Thanks!

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Lanny, do you know which organizations are the most reputable, keep their over head costs low so most of the money goes directly to the children? I'm more than willing to put my money where my mouth is. We have a child in India and one in Russia that we support, now it's time to add a Central American child to our long distance family. But, I've never worked with the usual child support groups. One of our children is one that a dear friend from doctor friend who has a clinic overseas and needed help with meds for his care so the money is sent directly to friend, the other is with Little Lamb Ministries out of Wheaton/Carol Stream, IL. and that money pays for a child who had aged out of the orphanage and would have been homeless, probably picked up for sex trafficking, but the money pays for her clothing, school fees, food, and personal supplies so that the loving family who took her in can afford to keep her. We give additional good size supplement every quarter to help their biological children. They were not in a position to take in another mouth to feed without assistance but willing volunteered to do anything they could and do a wonderful job fostering her.

So, I am not at all familiar with the larger organizations.

Not Lanny but I've heard good things about this organization http://plan-international.org

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We sponsor 4 kids through www.compassion.com We have kids in Honduras, Togo, Burkina Faso, and Haiti. We send letters, stickers etc...every few weeks. Compassion International promises that no more than 20% goes to administration costs. If you send money over and above your monthly $38 per kid 100% of the money goes to the child or family (whatever you designate). You can choose very specifically what country you sponsor a child from. One year sweet Mouniratou's family bought cooking oil and corn with the money we sent for Christmas. I can only hope it made a difference for a little while.  

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Here are a few more with programs in central America.

 

Children International (Guatemala, Honduras): www.children.org

 

Compassion International (Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Mexico, El Salvador): www.compassion.com

 

Save the Children (Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Mexico, El Salvador): www.savethechildren.net

 

Childfund (Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico): www.childfund.org

 

Each program takes a different approach. Some support individual children, some support families, some support communities. Many allow you to write letters to the child you sponsor in order to build a relationship beyond making a monthly payment.

 

Cat

 

 

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Are any of these religious organzations that require the child or family to make a conversion to a specific faith or denomination in order to receive help. Though a protestantish Jesus follower myself, I am adamantly opposed to such requirements because I don't think it's very Jesus like at all.

 

I tried volunteering once at a homeless shelter and soup kitchen that required those seeking help to attend a 1.5 hr. worship service before receiving help. Some peope had serious cuts that were openly bleeding and needed immediate attention and other injuries, but nope...nothing until after the service. Needless to say, I lasted one day because I did not agree with the policy.

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Are any of these religious organzations that require the child or family to make a conversion to a specific faith or denomination in order to receive help. Though a protestantish Jesus follower myself, I am adamantly opposed to such requirements because I don't think it's very Jesus like at all.

Ugh, me too.

 

I do know that Compassion International does include Bible teaching as a part of their center programming, and they work through local churches within the communities they serve. Parents are made aware of this before signing up their children; however, families or children are not required to convert. The services provided are open to all qualifying children. Some of the other programs listed are secular.

 

Cat

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On last question, is there anyway to sponsor all of the children in the family or the entire family? Does any organization do that? My other sponsors are either only child or orphan, or we support the family that took them in so I hate to have one child getting education, food, and medicine while the other siblings suffer. That hurts my heart.

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Thank you for posting this, Lanny. Our family sponsors a child in Colombia. We have sometimes wondered how helpful these programs are to communities, and chose to sponsor specifically because we want to support programs that help provide safe places for children and support families staying together. I cannot imagine how heartbreaking it must be for parents and children to feel there is no choice but to separate. We are considering sponsoring another child from Honduras or one of the other countries sending children in overwhelming numbers in hopes that we can continue to support programs that might help even one more family feel that there's another option. It just seems like such a tiny drop in the bucket. :(

 

Cat

 

 

I just cannot thank you enough for what you are doing to help a child here in Colombia!   The Maid I mentioned earlier, and her family, lived in a very rural area. So, I believe they had food they raised or could trade things for, but they had a very tough life. I remember going to their house once, with my next door neighbors, who were buying things for their garden as I recall.

 

Just 10 or 20 dollars a month could easily make the difference between a child here being able to attend school or not. Or, to have medical care or not.  Clothes, food, school books, etc.

 

Obviously, I live in Colombia so I know the situation here quite well after 19+ years, but I have also traveled extensively in Mexico (I had planned to move there) and I made 2 trips to Venezuela in 1991. Latin America has an enormous amount of poverty. In general, the people work very hard, for very little money and they are usually very honest.

 

My belief is that the people who live in rural areas are generally in better shape, because they can often raise their own food. People who live in large cities cannot do that.  However, people in rural areas have more problems with the guerrilla and many of them have been displaced.

 

I see a Foster Parents Plan (?) vehicle, from time to time, where I live, so I know they are very active here. 

 

BTW, you will probably not receive letters or photographs from the children you sponsor very often, because it is very expensive to mail anything from Colombia to the USA.  I need to send a  one page form to the USA now and the least expensive way I can do that will probably cost at least several dollars. For people who are very poor, if it is a choice between mailing a letter and eating, obviously, they are going to buy food with the money they have. 

 

Thank you again, for helping a Colombian child!

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Thank you, we are familiar with many programs but I was specifically asking Lanny for sponsor programs that have a good reputation to the locals in Columbia.

 

I am reading this thread from the bottom up now. I just saw your post.  I do not have any first or second hand information about programs that are  operating in Colombia at this time.  I will ask my wife if there is a way we can try to get some kind of feedback on those organizations. I guess those are what are called NGOs? 

 

Also, there might be an office in the U.S. Embassy in Bogota that has information about different programs operating here, but I don't know which office that might be. 

 

As with any charity organization, giving to one that spends as close to 100% of what they receive on their program would seem to be the best move. Some U.S. charities I've read about over the years seem to spend a huge percentage of what they receive on their fund raising and not much on their programs.

 

Thank you for considering a Colombian child! There are so many children in need here, along with tons of children in other countries who can also be helped. 

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Lanny, could you recommend a sponsor program?  I googled 'foster parents plan columbia' and didn't find anything.  Thanks!

 

I have no current knowledge about any programs that are  operating here in Colombia. The maid I mentioned, whose sister was being helped by one of those programs worked for me in about 1995 or 1996 and I have no idea about what program was helping her. For sure, she was being helped and for sure they deeply appreciated the help the girl was receiving.

 

I am going to ask my wife if she has any ideas about how we can try to get some information for you. 

 

Again, I believe the vehicle that I see frequently where we live says "Foster Parents Plan".  Not positive about that because I just take note of it when I see it, but I have never had any reason to try to talk with them, until this afternoon.

 

The next time I see that vehicle, I will pay more attention and if possible I will try to find out where they are located, etc.

 

Here, we have a lot of people who have been displaced by the guerrilla and they have had to move from their rural areas to large cities to get away from that violence.  Things here have improved, greatly, but there are still a lot of displaced people.

 

Also, we have had a lot of people come here from Ecuador. Things in Ecuador are apparently so bad that some of them come here and beg for money. We are probably 8 or 10 hours from the border with Ecuador.

 

I think living in a large city in general makes it much harder for a very poor family to subsist, because instead of possibly being able to raise some of their food (fruits, vegetables, eggs, chicken, beef) they need to buy everything. And, there is probably much more of a problem with delinquency in a large city.   

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Okay... This clarifies some. The local news just keeps talking about "busloads of children". I guess that led to my confusion.

 

That would be due to the media's fondness for "exciting" (inflammatory) phrasing, which they all too often pursue to the detriment of getting the facts straight. 

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On last question, is there anyway to sponsor all of the children in the family or the entire family? Does any organization do that? My other sponsors are either only child or orphan, or we support the family that took them in so I hate to have one child getting education, food, and medicine while the other siblings suffer. That hurts my heart.

 

Usually no, only one child per family is sponsored. But the entire family, and village benefit when programs like this come in. You can sponsor mothers and children through the Compassion International  Child Survival Program.

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If you sponsored a child from a very poor family, God Bless you for that. Many years ago, I had a maid who had a younger sister that was in the Foster Parents Plan, or some other program. here in Colombia.

It's such a trite thing to say, but my sponsored child has blessed me more than I have blessed him. His letters are full of such hope and joy, and he draws pictures with every letter. I was a slack sponsor in the beginning, never writing letters, and yet, he always sent me letters with blessings and good wishes for me and my family. They were sincere letters, written in his own hand, not canned. A couple of years ago I started writing him letters, too, but I still need to do better. He is getting older now, 12, and he may start feeling more outside pressures. I feel I need to step up now and write more encouragement, and bless him the way he has blessed me. After this thread and reading the recent news, now I feel very worried for him.

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Sponsoring a community is often more effective than sponsoring an individual child. There's less of a feel-good factor - donating to a latrine building project isn't glamorous - but social and practical projects have a huge benefit to the community and hence, the child.

 

Just another perspective, NOT a criticism.

 

I'm intrigued.  How does someone get involved in that?  We're not in a position to travel, but we might be able to give a little money towards a community project.  This idea really speaks to my heart.

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Sponsoring a community is often more effective than sponsoring an individual child. There's less of a feel-good factor - donating to a latrine building project isn't glamorous - but social and practical projects have a huge benefit to the community and hence, the child.

 

Just another perspective, NOT a criticism.

Plus, helping the community means individuals don't become targets in their community for jealousy or whatever. Sad to think about, but it can happen.

 

Not a criticism from me either. :)

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Plus, helping the community means individuals don't become targets in their community for jealousy or whatever. Sad to think about, but it can happen.

This is what I wonder about, too.

 

I think I read somewhere that it is not good to give too many extra gifts to a sponsored child and his family, because it might call unwanted attention their way.

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They say a photo is worth 1000 words...  This photo shows approximately 1300 people aboard freight cars, on a train that derailed in the extreme South of Mexico. Quite possibly some of the people on that train are from the 3 Central American countries.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/07/10/mexican-train-carrying-1300-migrants-heading-toward-us-derails/?intcmp=latestnews

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Yes, they are. And I imagine every one of us would do whatever we had to do to protect and provide for our families.

 

But many of us are descendants of people who did come to America under duress and in dire straits, and still managed to do so legally.  My grandmother's family came from Russia at the beginning of the 20th century. They saw the writing on the wall, and were able to escape.  They are of the Mennonite persuasion and while they were able to get out before "it" hit the fan with the Bolshiveks, a lot of their families and friends did not and had to literally run for their lives. There are stories, books, movies made of the harrowing escapes these people made, over icy rivers into China and then they made their way into Canada and the US. Legally. And when they came to the US they didn't expect government help. They worked. They were poor, but they worked.

 

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On last question, is there anyway to sponsor all of the children in the family or the entire family? Does any organization do that? My other sponsors are either only child or orphan, or we support the family that took them in so I hate to have one child getting education, food, and medicine while the other siblings suffer. That hurts my heart.

 

Yes, on the Compassion International website (compassion.com) they show children available and each child's description says how many kids/adults are in the family.  When you click on that child to sponsor him/her, it will bring up other kids in the same family if they are also available to sponsor.

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But many of us are descendants of people who did come to America under duress and in dire straits, and still managed to do so legally.  My grandmother's family came from Russia at the beginning of the 20th century. They saw the writing on the wall, and were able to escape.  They are of the Mennonite persuasion and while they were able to get out before "it" hit the fan with the Bolshiveks, a lot of their families and friends did not and had to literally run for their lives. There are stories, books, movies made of the harrowing escapes these people made, over icy rivers into China and then they made their way into Canada and the US. Legally. And when they came to the US they didn't expect government help. They worked. They were poor, but they worked.

 

Except that immigration rules at that time were positively LOOSE, and it was EASY to get here legally. Our immigration laws are extremely tight now, we are horrifically stingy with refugee and asylum status, and we aren't particularly open to "give me your tired your poor" as we once were. They also came into New York and found jobs at a time when government regulations on labor were practically non existent in comparison to today so they worked in horrible conditions for low pay, but it was work immigrants could legally get and was fairly freely available. Now a days, sweat shops operate underground and it's not possible to work for them legally here.

 

It's apples and oranges. You just can't compare the two situations.

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And when I say, "easy to get here" what I mean is not related to traveling, but in terms of openness at the ports and borders. No, it wasn't easy to cross the Atlantic or Pacific. I didn't mean to imply that. Just that the country was open for immigration. We are anti-immigration now.

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They are ENTERING illegally.

 

Their ACTIONS are illegal. The people themselves are not illegal. That's the difference.

 

In my line of work we refer to them as undocumented.

 

 

You rock for pointing this out, Caroline!

 

Labeling these children as, "illegals" makes it easier to whip the masses into a hatred frenzy.

 

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Charities in Dallas want to help these kids. There is a plan in the works to bring 2000 of them to Dallas County, but the Federal Government won't allow private charities to do anything:

 

 

"Questions are beginning to emerge surrounding how volunteers can help. Terry Henderson, with Texas Baptist Men, says there may be a chance volunteers will not be allowed inside federal shelter facilities in North Texas.

“Homeland security yesterday told us that going into a facility is probably not going to happen for NGOs because there is a law not allowing NGOs, volunteer agencies, churches to go into the federal detention centers and the federal shelters where they have federal contractors because of the liability issues on them being liable for us,†Henderson said.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Plans-Still-in-the-Works-to-Bring-Immigrant-Youth-to-DFW-266680161.html

 

Susan in TX

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Charities in Dallas want to help these kids. There is a plan in the works to bring 2000 of them to Dallas County, but the Federal Government won't allow private charities to do anything:

 

 

"Questions are beginning to emerge surrounding how volunteers can help. Terry Henderson, with Texas Baptist Men, says there may be a chance volunteers will not be allowed inside federal shelter facilities in North Texas.

“Homeland security yesterday told us that going into a facility is probably not going to happen for NGOs because there is a law not allowing NGOs, volunteer agencies, churches to go into the federal detention centers and the federal shelters where they have federal contractors because of the liability issues on them being liable for us,†Henderson said.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Plans-Still-in-the-Works-to-Bring-Immigrant-Youth-to-DFW-266680161.html

 

Susan in TX

I understand the concerns. HOWEVER, this is a crisis and now is not the time for bureaucracy to prevent an NGO with a real plan from getting involved.

 

But, it happens a lot and it makes it so darn difficult for private citizens to do ANYTHING. GRRRRRRRR......

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I understand the concerns. HOWEVER, this is a crisis and now is not the time for bureaucracy to prevent an NGO with a real plan from getting involved.

 

But, it happens a lot and it makes it so darn difficult for private citizens to do ANYTHING. GRRRRRRRR......

This. It happened with Katrina too. Government gets it's big head up it's even bigger butt and literally prevents citizens with common sense from stepping up to just get done what needs done.

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I understand the concerns. HOWEVER, this is a crisis and now is not the time for bureaucracy to prevent an NGO with a real plan from getting involved.

 

But, it happens a lot and it makes it so darn difficult for private citizens to do ANYTHING. GRRRRRRRR......

 

I agree.  But, they also have to protect the kids.  There are so many charities that have experience and private citizens that want to help though.

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I can't post a link because I'm on the phone, but I googled ABC news and searched their site for care packages to the illegal immigrant children. A quick look showed the Red Cross is helping them, and the sacred heartchurch in McAllen Tx is accepting donations for stuff. I'm sure there's more in the ABC website, but I got more info, more quickly by searching their site than by trying to google for it.

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But many of us are descendants of people who did come to America under duress and in dire straits, and still managed to do so legally.  My grandmother's family came from Russia at the beginning of the 20th century. They saw the writing on the wall, and were able to escape.  They are of the Mennonite persuasion and while they were able to get out before "it" hit the fan with the Bolshiveks, a lot of their families and friends did not and had to literally run for their lives. There are stories, books, movies made of the harrowing escapes these people made, over icy rivers into China and then they made their way into Canada and the US. Legally. And when they came to the US they didn't expect government help. They worked. They were poor, but they worked.

 

 

You are aware that it's far more difficult (and often impossible) to do this sort of thing legally now, right?  And it's even more difficult when one comes from "certain" countries.

 

AND, have you ever seen any of these folks on the job?  We live in farm country and food processing country.  These folks have FAR more of a work ethic than probably 90% of native born workers.  They often take jobs native born workers won't touch and will work their tails off at those jobs - without complaining.

 

Except that immigration rules at that time were positively LOOSE, and it was EASY to get here legally. Our immigration laws are extremely tight now, we are horrifically stingy with refugee and asylum status, and we aren't particularly open to "give me your tired your poor" as we once were. They also came into New York and found jobs at a time when government regulations on labor were practically non existent in comparison to today so they worked in horrible conditions for low pay, but it was work immigrants could legally get and was fairly freely available. Now a days, sweat shops operate underground and it's not possible to work for them legally here.

 

It's apples and oranges. You just can't compare the two situations.

 

:iagree:  and it's sad.  But there are still jobs for these folks and they still have a great work ethic.  It surprises me to hear that there are some who think differently - perhaps because we're in an area where we see so much of it in action.  People who travel for such long distances at such great risk really aren't of the "mold" to get here and be lazy - except where forced to do so.

 

Gov't really needs to get out of the way and let the private groups with experience resettling individuals and families take over - or at least let the folks (adults) continue their journeys on their own with work permits once health issues are cleared up.  The vast, vast majority will do just fine if given a chance.

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But many of us are descendants of people who did come to America under duress and in dire straits, and still managed to do so legally. My grandmother's family came from Russia at the beginning of the 20th century. They saw the writing on the wall, and were able to escape. They are of the Mennonite persuasion and while they were able to get out before "it" hit the fan with the Bolshiveks, a lot of their families and friends did not and had to literally run for their lives. There are stories, books, movies made of the harrowing escapes these people made, over icy rivers into China and then they made their way into Canada and the US. Legally. And when they came to the US they didn't expect government help. They worked. They were poor, but they worked.

 

As someone who just navigated the process "legally", I am willing to bet that what you have to do now to enter this country legally and what you had to do back then are vastly different. If you have not attempted this process then you have no idea the amount of money, paperwork and knowledge of immigration law that is required to do it legally. It is a nightmare that I have spent the last four years living through.

 

I'm not saying it's ok to come illegally but I am saying that most Americans who demand that everyone come here legally have NO IDEA what that actually entails in 2014.

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Right Heather! What it entails is waiting several years for paperwork to process. Years! Not weeks, not months....years. So if you are in a cartel war zone, you and your family could easily be dead by the time you can come here legally.

 

We tried to adopt from Nicaragua. Our girls died of strep turned rheumatic fever while they waited. Easily treatable here, but the antibiotics weren't available to them, and the money we sent for their medical care was stolen - three times. It's something we have a very hard time even talking about, and usually don't. So, that's the last I'm saying on that subject, or I won't be able to get through my day.

 

These people come here illegally because they are desperate. It's not a whim. They don't wake up one day and say, "I think I'll go on vacation in America." They risk being abandoned by coyotes to die of the elements, being shot dead at the border, languishing in detention centers, dying in route, being captured by cartels, the list is long and fraught with danger.

 

This will never end unless we get ruthless, put up fences, and shoot to kill indiscriminately, or get serious about ways to invest in and stabilize Latin American countries so that people have hope, a reason not to risk life and limb to leave. I am not for the first solution. It disgusts me just thinking about it.

 

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But many of us are descendants of people who did come to America under duress and in dire straits, and still managed to do so legally.  My grandmother's family came from Russia at the beginning of the 20th century. They saw the writing on the wall, and were able to escape.  They are of the Mennonite persuasion and while they were able to get out before "it" hit the fan with the Bolshiveks, a lot of their families and friends did not and had to literally run for their lives. There are stories, books, movies made of the harrowing escapes these people made, over icy rivers into China and then they made their way into Canada and the US. Legally. And when they came to the US they didn't expect government help. They worked. They were poor, but they worked.

 

 

They came legally back then because you COULD come legally now. It would be nearly impossible to do so now. If your ancestors came before 1920 they just came. There was no "legal/illegal" issue, really, unless they were Asian. This link has more, relevant point quoted below:

 

http://www.usccb.org/about/migration-policy/position-papers/upload/Issue-Brief-Why-Dont-They-Come-Here-Legally.pdf

 

"Many understandably ask why these millions of unauthorized immigrants did not seek to come to the United States lawfully. Some argue that if their ancestors could do it, so should the unauthorized immigrants in our country today. 

 
Many of our ancestors didn’t actually come here through federal “legal†channels – there weren’t restrictive federal immigration laws in place at the time 
 
Yet, until the 1870’s, the federal government did virtually nothing to restrict immigration to the United States. In most cases, immigrants who arrived to the United States in search of work or 
a new life simply settled in the country and became citizens. In 1875, Congress passed the Page Law, restricting immigration of women engaged in polygamy and prostitution, with enforcement provisions particularly focused on Chinese women.  Seven years later, in 1882, This, the first in a series of immigration issue briefs authored by the Office of Migration Policy and Public Affairs at Migration and Refugee Services/U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, provides a thumbnail sketch of applicable law governing lawful immigration to the United States, analyzes the facts, and provides the Conference’s policy and pastoral perspective on the issue of immigrants’ unlawful entry into the United States. 
 
 
Congress promulgated the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, restricting immigration of Chinese laborers.  Congress eventually expanded these restrictions on Chinese immigration to exclude Asian immigrants generally. However, immigration by those arriving from non-Asian countries was not significantly restricted until the 1920’s, by which time many of our immigrant ancestors had already arrived. "
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Right Heather! What it entails is waiting several years for paperwork to process. Years! Not weeks, not months....years. So if you are in a cartel war zone, you and your family could easily be dead by the time you can come here legally.

 

We tried to adopt from Nicaragua. Our girls died of strep turned rheumatic fever while they waited. Easily treatable here, but the antibiotics weren't available to them, and the money we sent for their medical care was stolen - three times. It's something we have a very hard time even talking about, and usually don't. So, that's the last I'm saying on that subject, or I won't be able to get through my day.

 

These people come here illegally because they are desperate. It's not a whim. They don't wake up one day and say, "I think I'll go on vacation in America." They risk being abandoned by coyotes to die of the elements, being shot dead at the border, languishing in detention centers, dying in route, being captured by cartels, the list is long and fraught with danger.

 

This will never end unless we get ruthless, put up fences, and shoot to kill indiscriminately, or get serious about ways to invest in and stabilize Latin American countries so that people have hope, a reason not to risk life and limb to leave. I am not for the first solution. It disgusts me just thinking about it.

I am so terribly sorry for your loss. That breaks my heart.

 

I agree with every word you posted. I once felt like everyone should have to go through the same immigration hell I just went through... Until I went through it. Now I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

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