Children being bussed across border illegally. Heard of this?

[brehon]

Generally speaking, I don't think many of the people who come here illegally (unaccompanied children or adults) are considered refugees. My understanding is that it is very difficult to be granted refugee status in this country.

[Cricket]

Although I see a lot of this everyday being in SoCal (undocumented immigrants), I have stayed away from this conversation as many points have been rehashed here, but a thought came to me last night...

 

If these children (and their families) are running from cartel wars, etc, are they then considered refugees? If so, has anyone read anything as to the UN getting involved? Either in their home countries or in the countries that they end up "running" to?? Or is it all about they want a piece of the "American Apple Pie" and they just happen to be close enough to here to make it versus the people on other continents who can not get here so easily?

 

I just base this on my experience in other countries with the UN and refugees (my DH is a refugee, so his family is well familiar with it). They kept the family intact, provided housing, education, medical care,  etc for millions. So they have the experience to handle something of this scope. I just wonder if because it is not a typical "war" (is there such a thing?), that perhaps that is why the UN has not offered help to these families? Or have they offered and the countries don't want it?

 

Just my ponderings last night...

 

According to the US Immigration Services, to qualify as a refugee people have to have been "persecuted or fear they will be persecuted on account of race, religion, nationality, and/or membership in a particular social group or political opinion."  It doesn't look like rampant crime and general perilous conditions would apply.

 

http://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum

 

I think getting the UN involved would create an uproar here like we haven't seen yet.

 

[Ohdanigirl]

Although I see a lot of this everyday being in SoCal (undocumented immigrants), I have stayed away from this conversation as many points have been rehashed here, but a thought came to me last night...

 

If these children (and their families) are running from cartel wars, etc, are they then considered refugees? If so, has anyone read anything as to the UN getting involved? Either in their home countries or in the countries that they end up "running" to?...

http://news.yahoo.com/un-pushes-migrants-called-refugees-040404169.html

 

I saw this article this morning but was unable to post until now. It looks like the UN will be having a meeting about this very topic.

[goldberry]

Someone mentioned something to the effect that "if we could have stopped the Holocaust, wouldn't we have been willing to take in all those people."  Actually, and incredibly sadly, the answer is no.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89vian_Conference

 

The Évian Conference was convened at the initiative of US President Franklin D. Roosevelt in July 1938 to respond to the plight of the increasing numbers of Jewish refugees fleeing murderous persecution in Europe by the Nazis—and perhaps he hoped to obtain commitments from some of the invitee nations to accept more refugees, although he took pains to avoid stating that objective plainly. It was true that Roosevelt desired to deflect attention and criticism from his own national policy that severely limited the quota of Jewish refugees admitted to the United States.^[1]

 

For eight days, from July 6 to 15 at Évian-les-Bains, France, representatives from 32 countries and 39 private organizations and some 24 voluntary organizations met and formally discussed the issue among themselves, both orally and in writing.^[2] Golda Meir, the attendee from Palestine, was the only representative of a landed Jewish constituency, but she was not permitted to speak or to participate in the proceedings except as an observer. Some 200 international journalists gathered at Évian to observe and report the conclave.

 

The dispossessed and displaced Jews of Austria and Germany were hopeful that this international conference would lead to acceptance of more refugees and safe haven. "The United States had always been viewed in Europe as champion of freedom and under her powerful influence and following her example, certainly many countries would provide the chance to get out of the German trap. The rescue, a new life seemed in reach."^[3]

 

Hitler responded to the news of the conference by saying essentially that if the other nations would agree to take the Jews, he would help them leave.

I can only hope and expect that the other world, which has such deep sympathy for these criminals [Jews], will at least be generous enough to convert this sympathy into practical aid. We, on our part, are ready to put all these criminals at the disposal of these countries, for all I care, even on luxury ships.

[

4

]

 

The conference proved a failure because both the United States and Britain refused to accept any (substantially) more refugees, and most of the countries at the conference followed suit, the result being that the Jews had no escape and were ultimately subject to what was known as Hitler's "Final Solution to the Jewish Question". The conference was seen by some as "an exercise in Anglo-American collaborative hypocrisy."^[4]

 

ETA, I know that's Wikipedia, but it gave a good summary.

[Murphy101]

I heard this on NPR while shuttling kids in the van this afternoon.

 

Michigan town protests housing immigrant children. And that's only approx 120 of them.

 

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2014/07/08/protest-immigration-michigan

 

Faith, you of course have the right to be insulted by my post, but my point stands. Towns are feeling invaded and have valid worries about being over-taken by a non-citizen population that isn't contributing substantially in positive ways to the infrastructure, economy, or health of those cities. That doesn't make them racist or heartless. It's a valid concern. I don't think any decent person wants those children harmed and I didn't suggest doing so either. In fact, I am very much for helping them. (And am very bothered that our govt has not been open enough to let charitable organizations in to do so. I'm sure many would step up to help.)

 

I was bothered by the notion these kids are basically under arrest indefinitely. With no accountability or oversight of how they are being housed and managed. It sounds very much like it is being turned into a huge business. They will be housed at federal expense, ESL teachers and therapist and so forth will be brought in. What? Like some kind of reeducation detainment camp for children? :.( Yes, this somewhat meets the concerns of citizens of having gang violence or local costs rising in their community from this, but it sure does not sound all that... kind? Humane? Either. And how long is that supposed to last? It could take YEARS to sort these kids.

 

And lastly, the comment that this won't affect state expenses bc it's paid by the Feds is rather stupid. The Feds get all their funds from the states. Granted, protecting our border should not be just the problem of the border states, but media should not report as though the feds needing more money is not a state issue. It very much is.

 

$3.7 billion in emergency funds is a lot of money, even divided by 50. And it's going to come from somewhere.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/08/us-usa-immigration-obama-idUSKBN0FC28220140708

 

It's just a mess and I don't think there's any happy ending anytime soon. It could be years away. And we can't even get a community to be accepting of 120 of the 50k+ here so far and there's no sign of the tide stemming soon. :(

[Χά�ων]

I am just thankful that I live someplace where I do not fear for the safety of my child to such an extent that I would send them thousands of miles without me for them to have a chance at a better life. 

[Χά�ων]

Only for the children to be rejected because towns feel invaded by 'non-contributing non-citizens'...

I am sure if I was that desperate I would have to be desperate enough to believe and hope that my child would be one of the ones accepted or able to get to a good spot. 

 

Can you imagine the heart ache of their mothers? I cannot believe how cold and callous some people are. These are children.

 

 

ETA: Correcting auto correct

[Murphy101]

And the States aren't the only ones.

 

Australia for example.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/07/australia-accused-breaking-law-returning-asylum-seekers-sri-lanka

 

I think as the economy gets tighter and more regions face government unrest, we will see more of this.

[Χά�ων]

Oh, I can imagine. I live in a country where rejecting outsiders is a national sport. Just this morning there were reports of mothers self-harming in detention camps. Self harm is not unusual - the camps are places where mental health is not a priority. Our PM chose to interpret these signs of despair and desperation as 'emotional blackmail.'

 

So yeah, not surprised a town won't take in 120 kids. Humans are despicable most of the time.

I have noticed the bold on this very thread.

[myfunnybunch]

Towns are feeling invaded and have valid worries about being over-taken by a non-citizen population that isn't contributing substantially in positive ways to the infrastructure, economy, or health of those cities.

 

120 children are going to overtake an entire town? Darn invaders.

 

I'm having a hard time seeing the validity in this concern.

 

Cat

 

[creekland]

People want to protect their own standard of living. I guess it's understandable, if selfish.

 

I've just been reading a book to ds set during WWII in Britain. So may families opened their homes to evacuees for the duration. I wonder what would have happened if they'd said no and turned those kids away.

 

I imagine peer pressure had a lot to do with it - the community disapproving of people who weren't 'doing their bit'.

 

What's happened between now and then is the "Me Generation" arose.  To many people, it's everyone for themselves now rather than working together to help all "make it."

 

Imagine if our country (or many others) requested rationing now - for any reason?

 

Of course, even back then folks likely wouldn't have been as receptive if those in need had different color skin.  What in the world makes some of us think skin color makes an iota of difference is beyond my level of comprehension.  Humans are humans - with feelings, hopes, and a desire to live in safety for most of us (those leading the gangs and cartels - worldwide - excepted of course).

[Murphy101]

I am sure if I was that desperate I would have to be desperate enough to believe and hope that my child would be one of the ones accepted or able to get to a good spot. 

 

Can you imagine the heart ache of their mothers? I cannot believe how cold and callous some people are. These are children.

 

 

ETA: Correcting auto correct

Is this directed at ME?

 

The person saying it's awful every which way and we need to find a REAL solution to both quickly getting them settled elsewhere, stop the tide and address the very real and valid concerns of communities dealing with this? That makes me cold and callous and some kind of child-hater? Really? You can weep and call names until hell freezes, but it won't change reality. My speaking of reality doesn't make me racist or anti-kids or even anti-immigrants.

 

Obviously if you weren't directing this at me, none of the above applies.:)

[Χά�ων]

Is this directed at ME?

 

The person saying it's awful every which way and we need to find a REAL solution to both quickly getting them settled elsewhere, stop the tide and address the very real and valid concerns of communities dealing with this? That makes me cold and callous and some kind of child-hater? Really? You can weep and call names until hell freezes, but it won't change reality. My speaking of reality doesn't make me racist or anti-kids or even anti-immigrants.

 

Obviously if you weren't directing this at me, none of the above applies. :)

Only if you were the one to break my auto correct! If you are then we have issues. 

[Caroline]

What's happened between now and then is the "Me Generation" arose.  To many people, it's everyone for themselves now rather than working together to help all "make it."

 

Imagine if our country (or many others) requested rationing now - for any reason?

 

Of course, even back then folks likely wouldn't have been as receptive if those in need had different color skin.  What in the world makes some of us think skin color makes an iota of difference is beyond my level of comprehension.  Humans are humans - with feelings, hopes, and a desire to live in safety for most of us (those leading the gangs and cartels - worldwide - excepted of course).

 

Yes, this exactly!

[Forget-Me-Not]

If nothing else, I have asked our representative to find out if the children could receive simple care packages. 4H clubs around the US could easily manage this. I can almost guarantee that in our county alone, we'd generate 400 or more, probably a lot more because my own church produced 150 last year for an orphanage in Ukraine. Again, not a solution, but these are CHILDREN and someone should give a rat's rear regardless of what the color of their skin is or their country of origin!

 

 

I would genuinely like to know this information as well. If anyone knows, please pass it along.

 

 

Can you imagine the heart ache of their mothers?

I can only imagine and it has been breaking my heart all week, as I sit in my comfortable home, in my safe neighborhood, while my babies play without a care in the world.

 

I really would like info about where to send supplies or reputable organizations to donate money.

[Murphy101]

120 children are going to overtake an entire town? Darn invaders.

 

I'm having a hard time seeing the validity in this concern.

 

Cat

 

They are concerned it will be 120 *families* and that if they do this once, it will become a steady tide. I don't know how valid that worry is. When I see pretty much nothing is being done to stop the tide of kids arriving, it's not entirely unfounded, though it might be a premature worry.

 

And there were several concerns, not just that one, and some were valid, at least according to the reporter.

 

Even so, convincing people the worry isn't valid is also a problem. Because if they think it is, they will act as though it is.

 

And in many places it's WAY more than 120 kids. And yes, they are feeling invaded and their community is suffering and having terrible financial strain from it.

 

Other cities see that and worry about ending up the same way too. Because as someone else pointed out up thread, everyone else who isn't there wants to give them a black eye for voicing their very real and literal problems as though they are selfish, but they don't pony up to help out.

 

Regardless, I only posted it bc I thought it was relevant to the thread.

[Laura in CA]

Some background (& current news) that some people might find interesting:

 

home page of today's New York Times (among other articles on this subject): 

Immigrant Surge Rooted in Law to Curb Child Trafficking

 

excerpt:

 

Now the legislation, enacted quietly during the transition to the Obama administration, is at the root of the potentially calamitous flow of unaccompanied minors to the nation’s southern border.

 

Originally pushed by a bipartisan coalition of lawmakers as well as by evangelical groups to combat sex trafficking, the bill gave substantial new protections to children entering the country alone who were not from Mexico or Canada by prohibiting them from being quickly sent back to their country of origin.

 

...

 

Immigration advocates say that they see no need for changes in the law and that the Obama administration should be able to work within the existing framework to bring some order under a law that is working to meet its original purpose.

 

“First and foremost,†said Wendy Young, president of Kids in Need of Defense, who was an immigration adviser to Senator Edward M. Kennedy at the time of the bill’s passage, “there was a recognition that these kids are incredibly vulnerable when they are moving across international borders alone.â€

 

 

 

 

home page of today's Wall Street Journal (among other articles on this subject):

5 Questions about the Border Crisis

 

 

The questions:

1. Why is this a crisis?

2. Why are they coming?

3. What happens to them once they get to the U.S.?

4. Will they be deported?

5. What is the [Obama] administration's plan for addressing the problem?

 

 

 

[ktgrok]

Actually we have two kinds of brown-skinned people around here.  We have Hispanics and we also have Middle Easterners.

 

Yes, it is not easy to immigrate legally.  That is true.  I live in San Antonio.  The majority of people who live here are Hispanic, most from Mexico.  A lot of those who have immigrated legally did not speak a word of English before they got here (some still don't).  They were not wealthy.  They scrimped and saved to pay the fees and work through the system.  These aren't just my direct friends.  It's the general sentiment among legal immigrants in this area from Latin America from what they tell me.

 

 

But at this point, according to what I linked earlier, it is no longer a matter of scrimping and paying fees. If you don't have family here, or aren't someone with a particular highly skilled job, you can't come in legally. Period. There is no 'working hard" to get to come. 

[VinNY]

120? We get 250 non-documented children every year:)

[Sisyphus]

I heard a blurb on NPR about our replacement rate, the birth rate for the millenials is dismal. From a practical standpoint, we actually need these kids! And from a humanitarian standpoint, we do too, IMO. It's probably melodramatic of me, but I feel like our country's soul is at stake here. Which way will we go?

[MrsBasil]

I heard a blurb on NPR about our replacement rate, the birth rate for the millenials is dismal. From a practical standpoint, we actually need these kids! And from a humanitarian standpoint, we do too, IMO. It's probably melodramatic of me, but I feel like our country's soul is at stake here. Which way will we go?

 

I know what you mean.  I'm somehow heartbroken at the idea that it's better for our country to return them then to just pitch in and help.  Someone earlier said that we can't save the whole world, but frankly, the whole world isn't asking.  These 50,000 though?  They showed up at our front door hungry and vulnerable and said, "help"

 

In another corner of the internet, in relation to another hot button story I heard many times that we are a "Christian nation".   I'm a Christian and I'm not seeing that to be the case.

[Sisyphus]

Someone earlier said that we can't save the whole world, but frankly, the whole world isn't asking. These 50,000 though? They showed up at our front door hungry and vulnerable and said, "help"e.

Yes, that!

The "least of these" are here, and what will we do...stand outside their barbed wire enclosures with signs telling them to go home?

[Murphy101]

I heard a blurb on NPR about our replacement rate, the birth rate for the millenials is dismal. From a practical standpoint, we actually need these kids! And from a humanitarian standpoint, we do too, IMO. It's probably melodramatic of me, but I feel like our country's soul is at stake here. Which way will we go?

I actually agree with you. Completely.

 

The problem though is how do we convince people who have decided they don't want to sacrifice their comfortable lifestyle to have more of their own kids to sacrifice their comfort for other people's kids?

 

A common attitude to families in need is give them birth control and teach them not to be stupid enough to have kids when poor and it's not unusual to hear suggestions of how we should penalize them by reducing their food stamps or knocking them completely out of the net if they don't catch on.

 

If we have this attitude in our culture towards our own children and fellow citizens, is it any wonder that the knee jerk reaction of many is to just ship these unfortunate kids back and educate their parents to quit having children so we don't have to deal with them instead of showing up in van after van after van with clothing, meds, toys, and a safe bed to sleep in?

 

I don't think it is melodramatic to say souls are at stake.

:(

[shinyhappypeople]

Is this directed at ME?

 

The person saying it's awful every which way and we need to find a REAL solution to both quickly getting them settled elsewhere, stop the tide and address the very real and valid concerns of communities dealing with this? That makes me cold and callous and some kind of child-hater? Really? You can weep and call names until hell freezes, but it won't change reality. My speaking of reality doesn't make me racist or anti-kids or even anti-immigrants.

 

Obviously if you weren't directing this at me, none of the above applies. :)

 

No, I'm pretty sure it was directed at me because I wrote: "However, sending your kids illegally, because you are here illegally... and putting your kids at extreme risk en route.... I just have a really hard time with it.  I don't want any children hurt.  But... crap.  It all just really upsets me.  My feelings about this are complicated."

 

Having complicated emotions about complex issues isn't PC, I guess.  Whatever.  At least it's emotionally honest.  It doesn't make me evil, selfish, or racist.  It makes me human with real emotions and visceral reactions to certain scenarios.  It also makes me someone who is saying what other people are thinking but choose not to express.

[mamakelly]

Someone earlier said that we can't save the whole world, but frankly, the whole world isn't asking.  These 50,000 though?  They showed up at our front door hungry and vulnerable and said, "help"

 

I think my biggest issue with the illegal immigrant children, is that how do we ensure that another 50,000 don't end up here next year, and the year after after etc... with the numbers increasing every year. If you say yes to these 50,000 do we say yes to the next round? Because unless immigration laws are enforced, they won't stop coming.

[Heather in Neverland]

Someone mentioned something to the effect that "if we could have stopped the Holocaust, wouldn't we have been willing to take in all those people." Actually, and incredibly sadly, the answer is no.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89vian_Conference

 

The Évian Conference was convened at the initiative of US President Franklin D. Roosevelt in July 1938 to respond to the plight of the increasing numbers of Jewish refugees fleeing murderous persecution in Europe by the Nazis—and perhaps he hoped to obtain commitments from some of the invitee nations to accept more refugees, although he took pains to avoid stating that objective plainly. It was true that Roosevelt desired to deflect attention and criticism from his own national policy that severely limited the quota of Jewish refugees admitted to the United States.^[1]

 

For eight days, from July 6 to 15 at Évian-les-Bains, France, representatives from 32 countries and 39 private organizations and some 24 voluntary organizations met and formally discussed the issue among themselves, both orally and in writing.^[2] Golda Meir, the attendee from Palestine, was the only representative of a landed Jewish constituency, but she was not permitted to speak or to participate in the proceedings except as an observer. Some 200 international journalists gathered at Évian to observe and report the conclave.

 

The dispossessed and displaced Jews of Austria and Germany were hopeful that this international conference would lead to acceptance of more refugees and safe haven. "The United States had always been viewed in Europe as champion of freedom and under her powerful influence and following her example, certainly many countries would provide the chance to get out of the German trap. The rescue, a new life seemed in reach."^[3]

 

Hitler responded to the news of the conference by saying essentially that if the other nations would agree to take the Jews, he would help them leave.

I can only hope and expect that the other world, which has such deep sympathy for these criminals [Jews], will at least be generous enough to convert this sympathy into practical aid. We, on our part, are ready to put all these criminals at the disposal of these countries, for all I care, even on luxury ships.^[4]

 

The conference proved a failure because both the United States and Britain refused to accept any (substantially) more refugees, and most of the countries at the conference followed suit, the result being that the Jews had no escape and were ultimately subject to what was known as Hitler's "Final Solution to the Jewish Question". The conference was seen by some as "an exercise in Anglo-American collaborative hypocrisy."^[4]

 

ETA, I know that's Wikipedia, but it gave a good summary.

This actually made me feel nauseous when I read it. We should be so ashamed.

 

 

I have mixed feelings. As someone who just went through FOUR YEARS of waiting and living outside the US and piles of paperwork and thousands of dollars to get US citizenship for my adopted daughter (and I am a US citizen for goodness sake), you would think I'd be yelling that all people should be forced to go through what I went through. If I had to do it why shouldn't they, right?

 

But instead, I only feel like it is a ridiculous process that was too difficult and expensive for me and I am highly educated and have the financial resources to pay for it. I can't imagine being poor with no English skills and trying to navigate that process.

 

Believe me, I've had moments of anger thinking about "all those illegals sneaking in while I followed rules and did things the right way." But in the end, I understand why they do it. The process is so convoluted it makes you feel desperate enough to find other ways to get in.

 

So I argue with myself in my head: am I an American first with a responsibility to protect American resources? Or am I a human being first with a responsibility to help other human beings in need?

 

We could help these children but it would take a DRASTIC change in our mindset to do so and I'm not sure that's going to happen.

[creekland]

120? We get 250 non-documented children every year:)  They do keep coming because, well let me quote a Mexican woman who was interviewed in our paper. She speaks the ancient language called Mixteco â€œEverything here is peaceful. Everyone is nice.† When you meet the poor you learn to view the world a little differently. We think our downtown is crappy, they think it is the Garden of Eden. Our valedictorian this year was from Ecuador. Couldn't speak a word of English when he entered K...now he is heading to Columbia University. 

 

This is similar to what I see.  The vast majority of "these people" end up being welcome additions to our country - very valuable resources.  They may not all end up at Columbia, but they tend to have a good work ethic, a "can-do" attitude, and are very appreciative for all that is here.

 

It's more than what I see in many "native" kids and families, but then again, when one has walked and fought their way to come 1500 miles in order to have a better future for themselves and their family it's not surprising that they have a better work ethic and mindset than many of those who have never had to do practically anything of a similar nature.

 

50,000 this year, 50,000 next year, etc.  Our country is large enough to handle it IF we decide to and start looking at the benefits instead of the color of their skin (and utilize churches and other groups willing to help to take the burden off the border states).  It's still only an average of 1000 per state, and that would assume none have relatives or family which I don't believe is the case.

 

Immigrants willing to make the ultimate effort to come here - often the poor from their country - are what made our country great in such a short number of years.  I expect they can continue to do so.

[Lanny]

One thing I read about this topic yesterday was that they have a 120 day contract for the facilities on the military bases and they want the ability to renew for an additional 120 days. Whether they plan to keep the people who are currently housed there, all of that time, or rotate people in/out, wasn't clear to me.  

 

I would like to see President Obama go down to Mission, Texas, so he can get an understanding about what is happening on the unprotected border. If he is going to be in Dallas, that is 528 miles from Mission. Apparently, 44% of the border between the USA and Mexico is considered to be unprotected.

 

This is an extremely  bad situation and there will probably be an additional 50,000 people, or more, crossing there, during the remaining months of  2014.

[TeacherZee]

But are they here illegally? They aren't hiding are they? They are showing up at our* door and saying help.

 

 

 

*our, I am American but don't actually live in the US at the moment, but they are also showing up at my country's door and saying help, we call them asylum seekers and don't deem them illegal. I think the word choice is important here. Why are they called illegal?

[Lanny]

This is a link to an article quoting a Pentagon Spokesman about the 120 day contract and apparently there is a possibility of a 2nd 120 day period. The Pentagon is housing 2700 unaccompanied minors, in 3 states, at this time. Apparently about 1,000 of the people crossing illegally into South Texas each month are from the 3 Central American countries. 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/08/concerns-raised-over-strains-on-us-military-bases-housing-more-than-2700/?intcmp=latestnews

[FaithManor]

I know I said that I would not post again in this thread, and I shouldn't. I know that. It's too raw for me because I feel so deeply about this topic, almost viscerally.

 

But, I'm heart broken today. Vassar, MI...a community close enough to my area of Mid-Michigan that I could have volunteered there and rallied the 4-H volunteers as well, was asked to take 100-120 of the children because they have a wonderful facility there that used to be used for distressed teens that needed a group home, but is no longer in use yet not in need of repair. That area NEEDS employment opportunities and Lansing has the dollars from the Fed to make it happen and the jobs would pay well more than minimum wage. This could have been a win win. We have at least two ESL teachers that I know of out of work in this county that have been applying all over the place, and more in other communities that are within commuting distance. So, Monday night, a city council meeting was held to discuss Lansing's proposal.

 

It was the largest meeting in the last ten years in that community. The room was packed to the point the fire chief had to say "no more" and people stood outside, many people. It was huge for a town that size. While some residents were supportive of the proposal, most were not and the children were referred to by one man as, "Dirty, diseased drains on society that we don't need" for which he received a standing ovation. So many of these children are young, little, not even close to adulthood. To think that people that I see coming and going from my own county seat, in and out of the 4-H office or the local Walmart, etc. think this way about innocent, vulnerable babies who never asked to be brought into this world, and are suffering, desperately hoping somebody cares about their plight....I'm ashamed. Deeply, profoundly ashamed of them.

 

I haven't heard back from Senator Stabenow or Senator Levin, nor representative Mike Green. Those wheels of course turn slowly so it's too soon to hope they have anything of substance to say. All I can do is hope that the heart of that community changes. I would gladly be at the forefront of finding donations of children's furniture, toys, ESL curriculum, books, games, puzzles, clothing, first aid items, food, you name it. My own family dentist already offered pro bono services. He has always done this. He's a good man...lose your job, he'll take care of your child's teeth anyway even if all you can pay is $5.00 a month. Every year he does three days of pro bono work for migrant agricultural workers. It's a crazy time for his practice. I think last year they managed a 1000 fillings, but I also know he got a bunch of other dentists involved in order to make that happen. But, we have people like this all over the area. I know we can take care of these children, at least in the short term, if only this community would say yes.

 

I'm reminded of this poem:

 

Give me your tired, your poor.

Your huddled masses yearning to breath free.

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the hopeless, tempest, tost to me.

I lift my lamp beside the golden shore.

 

If America has no desire to help frightened, suffering, homeless, vulnerable children, then possibly it's time to knock Lady Liberty into New York Harbor and let her sink.

[creekland]

 While some residents were supportive of the proposal, most were not and the children were referred to by one man as, "Dirty, diseased drains on society that we don't need" for which he received a standing ovation. So many of these children are young, little, not even close to adulthood. To think that people that I see coming and going from my own county seat, in and out of the 4-H office or the local Walmart, etc. think this way about innocent, vulnerable babies who never asked to be brought into this world, and are suffering, desperately hoping somebody cares about their plight....I'm ashamed. Deeply, profoundly ashamed of them.

 

...

 

I'm reminded of this poem:

 

Give me your tired, your poor.

Your huddled masses yearning to breath free.

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the hopeless, tempest, tost to me.

I lift my lamp beside the golden shore.

 

If America has no desire to help frightened, suffering, homeless, vulnerable children, then possibly it's time to knock Lady Liberty into New York Harbor and let her sink.

 

It makes me wish we could do an exchange program... bring those folks here and send those of ours who can't grasp the "basics" of life over there.  The learning from the exchange should hopefully be profound.

 

Your dentist is a gem.  Ours is too.  ;)

[Heather in Neverland]

I know I said that I would not post again in this thread, and I shouldn't. I know that. It's too raw for me because I feel so deeply about this topic, almost viscerally.

 

But, I'm heart broken today. Vassar, MI...a community close enough to my area of Mid-Michigan that I could have volunteered there and rallied the 4-H volunteers as well, was asked to take 100-120 of the children because they have a wonderful facility there that used to be used for distressed teens that needed a group home, but is no longer in use yet not in need of repair. That area NEEDS employment opportunities and Lansing has the dollars from the Fed to make it happen and the jobs would pay well more than minimum wage. This could have been a win win. We have at least two ESL teachers that I know of out of work in this county that have been applying all over the place, and more in other communities that are within commuting distance. So, Monday night, a city council meeting was held to discuss Lansing's proposal.

 

It was the largest meeting in the last ten years in that community. The room was packed to the point the fire chief had to say "no more" and people stood outside, many people. It was huge for a town that size. While some residents were supportive of the proposal, most were not and the children were referred to by one man as, "Dirty, diseased drains on society that we don't need" for which he received a standing ovation. So many of these children are young, little, not even close to adulthood. To think that people that I see coming and going from my own county seat, in and out of the 4-H office or the local Walmart, etc. think this way about innocent, vulnerable babies who never asked to be brought into this world, and are suffering, desperately hoping somebody cares about their plight....I'm ashamed. Deeply, profoundly ashamed of them.

 

I haven't heard back from Senator Stabenow or Senator Levin, nor representative Mike Green. Those wheels of course turn slowly so it's too soon to hope they have anything of substance to say. All I can do is hope that the heart of that community changes. I would gladly be at the forefront of finding donations of children's furniture, toys, ESL curriculum, books, games, puzzles, clothing, first aid items, food, you name it. My own family dentist already offered pro bono services. He has always done this. He's a good man...lose your job, he'll take care of your child's teeth anyway even if all you can pay is $5.00 a month. Every year he does three days of pro bono work for migrant agricultural workers. It's a crazy time for his practice. I think last year they managed a 1000 fillings, but I also know he got a bunch of other dentists involved in order to make that happen. But, we have people like this all over the area. I know we can take care of these children, at least in the short term, if only this community would say yes.

 

I'm reminded of this poem:

 

Give me your tired, your poor.

Your huddled masses yearning to breath free.

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the hopeless, tempest, tost to me.

I lift my lamp beside the golden shore.

 

If America has no desire to help frightened, suffering, homeless, vulnerable children, then possibly it's time to knock Lady Liberty into New York Harbor and let her sink.

I am so sad and humiliated that this happened in my home state. I feel like crying.

[creekland]

I am so sad and humiliated that this happened in my home state. I feel like crying.

 

I suspect it would happen in any state.  If there's one thing we've learned in our travels and the different places we've lived in the US, there are ignorant people everywhere.  (We've also learned that there are good people everywhere...)  There's no one particular state or region that is immune from prejudice of some sort.

[Serenade]

I can't help but wonder what would happen if everyone who had a true concern for these children on a personal basis would be willing to sponsor a child who continues living in his or her own country. This could be accomplished through any of the existing sponsorship programs. Seems like that could make a significant difference in the lives of children, without draining these Central American countries of their own vital human resources.

 

I've sponsored a child in Honduras for a while now, and he seems to be content and well-cared for, based on his letters. Sponsorships seem to be a very cost-effective method of helping children, and they help children in their own country. If large quantities of children leave their countries, is there even a future hope for these countries?

 

A sponsorship wouldn't help the children who have already crossed our borders, but maybe it would help other children who haven't yet left their country of origin.

[FaithManor]

I'd love to sponsor a child. Really, dh and I would jump at it. We do that now in India. They just need to get the program set up. The key would be reputable organization, making sure the money got where it was meant to go, etc. My concern though is that if these children are from families targeted for cartel/gang violence, that the money from sponsorship would not help or never make it to their hands. Something needs to be done about the violence. I think that's going to take a concerted effort between the US, the UN, and these three nations, and those nations are going to have to seriously want help and be willing to make some tough choices in order to get it under control. Will that happen? That's anybody's guess!

 

Allowing Americans to sponsor children who are going to be deported would certainly seem like an appropriate response.

[Butter]

But are they here illegally? They aren't hiding are they? They are showing up at our* door and saying help.

 

 

 

*our, I am American but don't actually live in the US at the moment, but they are also showing up at my country's door and saying help, we call them asylum seekers and don't deem them illegal. I think the word choice is important here. Why are they called illegal?

 

Because that's not how it is going.  They are crossing at unprotected border points, not at our door.  They were hiding until they were picked up by border patrol.  That means they crossed illegally.  Showing up at a border crossing and saying "help" wouldn't do them much good.  Well, it probably would little kids, but not older teens and adults.

 

[Serenade]

I'd love to sponsor a child. Really, dh and I would jump at it. We do that now in India. They just need to get the program set up. The key would be reputable organization, making sure the money got where it was meant to go, etc. My concern though is that if these children are from families targeted for cartel/gang violence, that the money from sponsorship would not help or never make it to their hands.

The first child I sponsored in Honduras left the program. I'm wondering if he may have succumbed to gang pressure. And I'm guessing that's another concern for sponsoring agencies. They probably have to find an area that is somewhat safer to operate effectively.

 

 

Something needs to be done about the violence. I think that's going to take a concerted effort between the US, the UN, and these three nations, and those nations are going to have to seriously want help and be willing to make some tough choices in order to get it under control. Will that happen? That's anybody's guess!

 

Allowing Americans to sponsor children who are going to be deported would certainly seem like an appropriate response.

I like you suggestion above. That would be great, if people could choose to support a child who is being deported. But who would arrange it? Who would step in and arrange something like that effectively and efficiently? I bet if someone or some organization could do it, there would be plenty of Americans who would step up to the plate and help.

[Saddlemomma]

I haven't read all the previous threads of this discussion, but I do know that most of the fear and concerns towns have regarding allowing illegals to enter is due to disease and other health reasons.  Right now, in the holding areas, they are dealing with massive lice and scabies infestations.  In addition, there are tuberculosis outbreaks, as well as hand & mouth disease.

 

Our government is doing everything they can to keep this information from leaking out to the press, but the health concerns are very real and well-known to the agents in our area.

 

I know this because a couple of the border patrol agents in our area have been called there for duty for one month each.  I know one of the wives and she's terribly concerned.  Her dh has had his vaccinations, but she's still concerned.  They have 4 kids.  She says he's going down to change diapers and basically be a babysitter.

[Paige]

I know I said that I would not post again in this thread, and I shouldn't. I know that. It's too raw for me because I feel so deeply about this topic, almost viscerally.

 

But, I'm heart broken today. Vassar, MI...a community close enough to my area of Mid-Michigan that I could have volunteered there and rallied the 4-H volunteers as well, was asked to take 100-120 of the children because they have a wonderful facility there that used to be used for distressed teens that needed a group home, but is no longer in use yet not in need of repair. That area NEEDS employment opportunities and Lansing has the dollars from the Fed to make it happen and the jobs would pay well more than minimum wage. This could have been a win win. We have at least two ESL teachers that I know of out of work in this county that have been applying all over the place, and more in other communities that are within commuting distance. So, Monday night, a city council meeting was held to discuss Lansing's proposal.

 

It was the largest meeting in the last ten years in that community. The room was packed to the point the fire chief had to say "no more" and people stood outside, many people. It was huge for a town that size. While some residents were supportive of the proposal, most were not and the children were referred to by one man as, "Dirty, diseased drains on society that we don't need" for which he received a standing ovation. So many of these children are young, little, not even close to adulthood. To think that people that I see coming and going from my own county seat, in and out of the 4-H office or the local Walmart, etc. think this way about innocent, vulnerable babies who never asked to be brought into this world, and are suffering, desperately hoping somebody cares about their plight....I'm ashamed. Deeply, profoundly ashamed of them.

 

I'm reminded of this poem:

 

Give me your tired, your poor.

Your huddled masses yearning to breath free.

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the hopeless, tempest, tost to me.

I lift my lamp beside the golden shore.

 

If America has no desire to help frightened, suffering, homeless, vulnerable children, then possibly it's time to knock Lady Liberty into New York Harbor and let her sink.

 

We should be ashamed. I think we won't see change in attitudes without some effort and leadership from those in power. We need the President, senators, congressman, church leaders, and even celebrities, to stick their necks out and show some compassion. Make it cool to care. I am really disappointed that President Obama wants to fast track these deportations which could mean individual children's cases could be mishandled and the children put at further risk. It seems backward- we take things slowly when there's not a crowd and it's easier to do it correctly, but when there is a crisis, and tons of kids, we throw up our hands and say, "screw it all- it's too hard!"??? 

 

We have over 450,000 churches in our country. If each church sponsored a family, everyone would have more than enough support. 

[FaithManor]

The first child I sponsored in Honduras left the program. I'm wondering if he may have succumbed to gang pressure. And I'm guessing that's another concern for sponsoring agencies. They probably have to find an area that is somewhat safer to operate effectively.

 

 

I like you suggestion above. That would be great, if people could choose to support a child who is being deported. But who would arrange it? Who would step in and arrange something like that effectively and efficiently? I bet if someone or some organization could do it, there would be plenty of Americans who would step up to the plate and help.

I don't know if this is something the Red Cross could handle or not. Maybe they would be a first choice organization to start with and then work from there.

 

It's something I can put in a follow up email to my senators.

 

One of the things that really concerns me about deportation is for those families who sent their child not just because of poverty, but violence in their neighborhoods, what if the parents have been killed by the time their child arrives back home? Who is taking that child then? What is the home country going to do about it? It's a thought that frightens me because what I see in my mind's eye is lack or resources and proper organization effectively means homelessness and that nearly always, especially with teen boys, ends in criminal behavior, a gang swooping in and "saving" them by giving them a place to hang, an identity, food. For the girls...well, we know where that ends. Sex trafficking. My heart bleeds when I think about it.

[creekland]

I can't help but wonder what would happen if everyone who had a true concern for these children on a personal basis would be willing to sponsor a child who continues living in his or her own country. This could be accomplished through any of the existing sponsorship programs. Seems like that could make a significant difference in the lives of children, without draining these Central American countries of their own vital human resources.

 

I've sponsored a child in Honduras for a while now, and he seems to be content and well-cared for, based on his letters. Sponsorships seem to be a very cost-effective method of helping children, and they help children in their own country. If large quantities of children leave their countries, is there even a future hope for these countries?

 

A sponsorship wouldn't help the children who have already crossed our borders, but maybe it would help other children who haven't yet left their country of origin.

 

I see no reason we couldn't sponsor the children who have crossed our borders - families too.  I suspect there would be enough supporting this, that if it were an option, the bulk of the "money" would be there.  Whether this sponsorship would be better here or there will depend upon their specific region.  It won't help if we send them back to a gang/cartel war zone.  It can help if it's pure poverty they are dealing with.

 

Our current sponsored child is in Sri Lanka - in another dangerous region.  Sponsorship definitely can help areas, so a combo of both could be worthwhile.

 

We should be ashamed. I think we won't see change in attitudes without some effort and leadership from those in power. We need the President, senators, congressman, church leaders, and even celebrities, to stick their necks out and show some compassion. Make it cool to care.

 

... 

 

We have over 450,000 churches in our country. If each church sponsored a family, everyone would have more than enough support. 

 

It's another sad state of our nation that celebrities would be the best leaders for this - above anyone else.  It'd be terrific if they'd get on board though!  Whatever works...

[FaithManor]

Seriously, if I knew Angelina Jolie's phone number I would call and beg for a few minutes. She has worked very hard for children in poverty and has a boatload of connections at the UN. I know she has been dealng with major health issues, but she is a world known voice on matters such as this. One interview, a few phone calls to the right people....Angelina? Are you out there?

 

Sigh...yes, to be honest, we have enough churches in my county alone that the 120 proposed to come here could probably have a year's worth of clothing, food, personal care supplies, and utilities covered without dipping into public funds. The state and federal money could go to the workers and medical care. Like I said, the two pediatricians in our county, three DO's, my MIL who is a retired pediatric nurse specialist with an active license, my family dentist, other nurses just from our congregation alone,....we've got medical people willing to pitch in and I would almost bet that the owners of the two privately held pharmacies would throw in discounted prescriptions to the state.

 

Again, I would foster one if our stupid system would lift the restictions on our filtered well water and exterior wood boiler ( which we would never expect our foster child to help with).

[FaithManor]

I think many communities do not realize how important it is to get the children broken down into smaller groups. It is much easier to contain health contagious health problems within a group of 100 vs. thousands. Lackland will be fighting a losing battle until every state pitches in and takes a group of children. 52,000/50 states...that's a thousand a state and if housed in groups of 100, that is ten locations. Some states such as Wyoming and Montana might not have more than one or two locations for handling the crisis, but my state could ...if leadership really put their minds to it and communities opened their hearts, handle 20 locations or 2000.

 

I am wondering if Canada would have any interest in helping as well. It's our problem initially because they arrived here asking for help. But, it's a global problem too and in the long haul, the world as a whole has to get on board with finding solutions.

[La Texican]

I just googled "sponsor a child in Honduras/Ecuador/Mexico" and there's plenty of results, compassion international and all the other big names already do this. I hesitate to post my thoughts publicly and look like a fool because I know I don't have all the facts, but I have worried about this for years. Ohdanigirl lives there, I don't, and says that it's not as bad as we think it is. How bad I think it is, is that I went to Nuevo Laredo a few years ago and it was fine. I even considered renting an apartment over there. One day I went and there were armed soldiers standing all over downtown because the gang violence had gotten so bad. I've been to L.A., my dad even took me through South Central in the daytime. The gangs have never gotten so bad that we have armed soldiers downtown. And I saw a professional banner on a bridge, plastic, like a business would buy from Kinko's. It said, "police and military, come work for us instead. We pay better and have benefits for your family.". Now, not being there, I only get conflicting reports. My BIL moved his family out of there, saying it was getting dangerous down there, another BIL's family lives in Aculpolco and wants him to move his family there, saying it's not dangerous in that area. What makes me worry about this is the story that the cartels are run by ex special ops, Mexico's version of our SEALs. They asked for a raise, the government refused, they took over some cartels. All gangs, even ours, have talented leaders (if only we could have found a way to use those brains for good). If the Mexican Cartels are being run by ex-special ops, then it truly is a Civil War between two militaries. It's probably going to come down to who has more $, the government, or the international cocaine dealers. It bothers me that all the news frames this as "not a war, just a drug/gang war, as if it's remotely close to our drug and gang war, when it really seems to be a Civil War, with military on both sides. Yes, they use gangs and use drug money. That's not mentioned in any Civil War in our history books, but if it's two military factions fighting over control, then it sounds like any other Civil War in history.

That Evian Conference was new to me. Shows me I don't know my countries history that well. All I knew was about our veterans and everybody giving 110%, Rosie and the girls going to work, the depression, and the industrial revolution. Makes me wonder if this mess does go really bad (too soon to tell) if historians will lump our recent economy with the War (if it does go there). I also have always lived in what I was told was the modern times, more diplomatic, supposedly different and more modern than any other time. Apparently last time, we refused refugees, and then went to a world war against Hitler until it was done. What will we do this time, if the situation continues to escalate? Has humanity learned enough, is America suave enough, to "think" our way out of this one. Of course, since all the stories are conflicting, maybe it's not as bad as all that. I still wouldn't compare unorganized school shootings with military and police composed drug cartels.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TeacherZee]

Because that's not how it is going.  They are crossing at unprotected border points, not at our door.  They were hiding until they were picked up by border patrol.  That means they crossed illegally.  Showing up at a border crossing and saying "help" wouldn't do them much good.  Well, it probably would little kids, but not older teens and adults.

 

I think you misunderstood my point. My point was, why do we call them illegal. They are coming to the US (and other countries) because they want help. By calling them illegal and making it difficult for them to show up at our door to say help we are creating an us and them situation, which in turn is leading to incidents like the one Faith described.

[TeacherZee]

Because they ARE entering illegally. They don't come with passports, visas, or any governmental permission to enter. That's the definition of illegal. It isn't meant to be derogatory; it's just the definition of it.

Or they could be called asylum seekers

[Sisyphus]

I would like to say that I have learned a great deal from this conversation, so thank you all, from every viewpoint. The posters in border states and central America, those who are getting involved in this in their communities- it's important for me to hear from those points of view, rather than the polarized sound bites on the news. You WTMers are a good group.

 

And please faith- run for something! Your ideas and your willingness to get involved are so refreshing, and I am glad you are you. I need to do less talking about problems and agonizing over things, and more doing!

[TeacherZee]

But wasn't this discussed up thread? IIRC, there has to be particular circumstances to be considered refugees/asylum seekers, and they don't meet those requirements as they are currently defined.

The whole thing is just a mess. I wish there were an easy solution. In the meantime, these kids are stuck in limbo.

We've discussed what a refugee is. An asylum seeker is an individual seeking protection. They are called asylum seekers while their claims are being processed.

 

I would post more links but I'm on my iPad and it keeps eating my posts. But here is a link to how it is one in Sweden (link is in English :))

 

http://www.migrationsverket.se/English/Private-individuals/Protection-and-asylum-in-Sweden/Asylum-regulations.html

[Caroline]

They are ENTERING illegally.

 

Their ACTIONS are illegal. The people themselves are not illegal. That's the difference.

 

In my line of work we refer to them as undocumented.

 

Because they ARE entering illegally. They don't come with passports, visas, or any governmental permission to enter. That's the definition of illegal. It isn't meant to be derogatory; it's just the definition of it.