A.J. at J.A. Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 We have been moderately successful in our use of Tapestry of Grace. I am a math person and our Socratic discussions with Tapestry have been a joke, to say the least. I'm looking for another option and was wondering if I could please get some feedback on Sonlight for high school history. If you are using this successfully (or even unsuccessfully) for high school, I would greatly appreciate any feedback. Blessings, Angela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Indeed Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I love the looks of done of the highschool cores, but have not done one as written! If you google sonlight highschool here on the Well Trained Mind site you will find several posts. Generally, people do not like the highschool cores, even those who did like the younger cores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Home Alabama Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I've never used TOG.... loved it from a distance, though. I just thought I would mention what I've read through the years: Biblioplan is TOG-like but more doable. You might look at that. We've used My Father's World for high school. The lesson plans are written to the student. Discussion between parent and student is written into the plans, but it has a more casual feel compared to TOG. In our school, it is as relaxed as, "Tell me what you've learned this week...." And it goes on from there. This may be too relaxed for some, but it works out for us especially when the work load from all the other subjects piles up leaving no time for a detailed (time-consuming) history review. ETA: I've also read plenty of threads about Sonlight being light for high school. I used Sonlight's Cores 3-4 years ago. They were great for elementary/middle school. Just search for Sonlight in high school, and you should find reviews to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 We have been moderately successful in our use of Tapestry of Grace. I am a math person and our Socratic discussions with Tapestry have been a joke, to say the least. I'm looking for another option and was wondering if I could please get some feedback on Sonlight for high school history. If you are using this successfully (or even unsuccessfully) for high school, I would greatly appreciate any feedback. Blessings, Angela What do you like and not like about TOG? Is the issue with Socratic discussion that it's awkward, that you feel like you don't have the right answers, or something else? Is it an issue of when and where you have the conversations? I've found with teen aged sons, most of my good conversations come when we are doing something else. Driving, eating dinner, cleaning up dishes. I think a targeted sit down discussion time puts a lot of pressure on a kid. Maybe listening to Teaching Company lectures about the period or work would help. We've found that our libraries have many of the series we want to listen to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela in VA Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 We have done TOG at the rhetoric level (high school) the past two years and I have been VERY pleased. Previous to that we tried TOG but the discussion times always tripped us up and we did not stay on track. The difference? We joined a weekly virtual co-op and it has made all the difference. While Tapestry offers their own classes and they are very good, they cost quite a bit. We have only paid $25 a year for the family to participate in the virtual co-op. I do have to teach a number of times during the year, but it is totally worth it because more often it is another mom who has to prepare everything for the week. It keeps my students on track for history and literature, then I get to choose at home which of the other subjects we will do from TOG. Keep in mind that each virtual co-op operates slightly differently, but the idea is the same. Another benefit is that both my students took the PSAT and SAT this past year and did well on the Critical Reading sections. The reading level of TOG resources far surpasses what I saw when comparing to Sonlight or MFW books. TOG really requires digestion and analysis of difficult material and I am very satisfied with what they are getting out of it. HTH, Pamela in VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J. at J.A. Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 What do you like and not like about TOG? Is the issue with Socratic discussion that it's awkward, that you feel like you don't have the right answers, or something else? Is it an issue of when and where you have the conversations? I've found with teen aged sons, most of my good conversations come when we are doing something else. Driving, eating dinner, cleaning up dishes. I think a targeted sit down discussion time puts a lot of pressure on a kid. Maybe listening to Teaching Company lectures about the period or work would help. We've found that our libraries have many of the series we want to listen to. I like the depth it goes although that got me in trouble earlier in the year because I was assigning a lot of supplemental suggestions and about killed my student with work! Live and learn. Maybe this is a cop-out but even if I read the teacher notes, *I* do not retain the info enough to have an intelligent discussion. When I'm "discussing" with him, it winds up being me asking him the discussion questions, we chat a bit, and then I basically end up reading the discussion answers to him. He completes all the acct/thinking questions ahead of time and is very bright, but I just don't feel that I am adding any value at all! In fact, I have given up and now he just reads the discussion info too...can we say boring - poor kid! He's a trooper, and I know he is learning. I just wish there was a reasonably priced co-op he could join where I wasn't required to teach. I honestly cannot teach this stuff. Give me math any day!! I'll look into the Teaching Company lectures, but it just seems like there is never enough time to add more stuff in. Thanks so much! Angela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J. at J.A. Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 We have done TOG at the rhetoric level (high school) the past two years and I have been VERY pleased. Previous to that we tried TOG but the discussion times always tripped us up and we did not stay on track. The difference? We joined a weekly virtual co-op and it has made all the difference. While Tapestry offers their own classes and they are very good, they cost quite a bit. We have only paid $25 a year for the family to participate in the virtual co-op. I do have to teach a number of times during the year, but it is totally worth it because more often it is another mom who has to prepare everything for the week. It keeps my students on track for history and literature, then I get to choose at home which of the other subjects we will do from TOG. Keep in mind that each virtual co-op operates slightly differently, but the idea is the same. Another benefit is that both my students took the PSAT and SAT this past year and did well on the Critical Reading sections. The reading level of TOG resources far surpasses what I saw when comparing to Sonlight or MFW books. TOG really requires digestion and analysis of difficult material and I am very satisfied with what they are getting out of it. HTH, Pamela in VA I would love to do that, but believe me, nobody would want me teaching their kid history! I tried to join a virtual coop at the beginning of the year, but they wanted me to either discuss history or literature - neither of which I am qualified in. I would have been happy to help with math had it been offered. :) Unfortunately, the prices for ToG online are out of sight and we have print-only version so upgrading to DE would just be an additional expense. I'm thankful for your input! :) Blessings, Angela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicheleinMN Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 As someone who has tried TOG on a couple of occasions, I would say that if you like the program, but aren't enjoying the Socratic discussion part then maybe drop that part. TOG is very rich and if you are doing the readings with any discussion or writing, then your children are still getting a great education, especially in history and literature. Your way of using the teacher notes sounds a lot like mine! I haven't used Sonlight for high school, but that's because I could never stick with an IG when the children were younger. I have no illusion that I would follow it for high school. (And it's too expensive for me to buy it to use as a book list, though I am always tempted.) I have ended up using Kolbe's 9th grade history and literature plans more than once, and coming from me...that's high praise. I like their reading schedule and discussion/comprehension questions. I don't use their book study guides, as I don't think they are worth the time or the money. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love_to_Read Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Math teachers are always in short supply. If you could find a multi-subject coop, or even just another family to trade off with, most people I know would swoon to have you tutor high school math or review for the SATs, etc.I would put yourself out there...it probably doesn't even occur to people because they've never had anyone qualified in math offer to teach. I've done science for our coop a number of times and it's like pulling teeth to get anyone to even fill in for a week because they feel intimidated by the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J. at J.A. Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 You ladies are very sweet! Thank you for your kind words and encouragement. Many blessings, Angela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 We tried Sonlight for 20th Cent history, back before they revised it. I wanted much MORE discussion guidance than it gave. I wanted more lit guidance, too--ended up using a lot of Spark Notes. Have you seen the study guides for SWB's history series? She's only up to the Renaissance, but it could be a good fit for you. I did enjoy reading the Great Books with ds. Let me clarify--I enjoyed HIS reading and me discussing--again, mostly with Spark Notes and Omnibus. It's a neat way to get your history, but I needed more spine, so we used more Spielvogel and some other resources. I have 3 units of TOG and wish I'd had them to help me back then, but I think we did ok. Ds was just 3 classes shy of a History major in college (had the credits but not upper level enough). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J. at J.A. Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 Just posted a follow-up to this - now considering MFW. Would love input on that if any of you have the time. http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/520483-mfw-vs-tog-for-10th-grade/ Chris in VA - Not really wanting to go back as far as Ancients or Renaissance - wishing SWB had more recent history, but I know it takes a lot of time to put it all together. :) Blessings!! Angela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merylvdm Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I guess I am a math person and a humanities / social science person so not sure how helpful I will be, but my oldest 3 did all the high school Sonlight cores and we all loved them. They were challenging and engaging and resulted in many discussions round the supper table. They also prepared them well for AP exams and SAT subject tests - as well as for coping at college. My daughter got into a pretty exclusive honors program based on essays she did as part of Sonlight and a phone interview, and my sons did very well at all the literature / history / culture studies classes they had to do at college and I feel that was a direct result of doing Sonlight. We didn't ever try TOG so I can't compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LillianinAL Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I have also had a positive experience with Sonlight. My oldest has used all cores but one from PreK through Core 400. He just got his ACT score back- 33. He will be doing the new World History and Worldview with British Lit for English for his Senior year.. I think those courses look excellent, as well as the new, revised Core 400, Government and Economics, which my next son will do this year. The amount of discussion in the high school cores has been plenty for us. I have no doubts they will be well prepared for college, as well as whatever The Lord has for them later in life. I have looked many times at TOG and have a dear friend who uses and loves it, but my children and I are too happy with Sonlight to switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom22722 Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I switched from sonlight to TOG one year when my older boys where in middle school for fear sonlight wasn't hard enough. I hated TOG and so did my kids. We switched back to sonlight which is a good fit for us. I never understand why people say it isn't hard we find it very challenging and interesting. We found TOG to be dry. My son will be a senior this year and we have mostly used Sonlight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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