Opinions on WWS2?

[LillianinAL]

My dd did WWS1 last year for 8th grade. She did very well with it and learned a lot. She would like a change, but I think a second year may be good for her. She has been slower in developing Spelling, Grammar, and Writing skills! But she is doing better now. If you have done book 2 of WWS also, how did you like it? Was it worth it? Did your dc learn a lot of new things from it? Or do you wish you had done another program? Thanks, Lillian

[Nakia]

I can't say enough good things about WWS2! My dd did it last year for 8th grade, and I think it really cemented her writing skills. She is a great writer now. I think she learned a lot about style and how to choose which kind of writing to do, if that makes sense.

[lewelma]

WWS2 is way better than WWS1!  I will skip WWS1 with my younger and do a different program for that material (narration and description), and then switch into WWS2.  If you liked WWS1, you will find level 2 to be easier to implement because it has less abstraction.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

My dd used WWS1 and is about 1/3 of the way through WWS2. It's been a great choice for us. No regrets!

[PeterPan]

Of course she'd like a change.  Sounds like it's hard for her.  ;)

 

Yes, WWS2 is worth continuing on to do.  We skipped a certain number of the weeks (for reasons that escape me at the moment because I'm sun kissed and tired) and combined others.  I'm pretty sure I posted our condensed list on the hs board here.  What I posted is what we did, and I'm glad we did it that way.  

 

I can't give you some testimonial saying it did amazing things for my dd.  It was a thought process and it was fine.  I couldn't find anything else better to do that with, so we used it.  The things she doesn't like about WWS1 will probably still be there with WWS2.  That's why we condensed, because I figured I couldn't make it go away but I could get it over with quickly.  

 

I don't know if we'll continue on with WWS3.  I got the beta lessons and they seemed sort of repetitive.  We'll see when the final print version comes out.  I have IEW's Advanced Communication Series, a rhetoric book, and a food writing text.  That's really plenty to keep us busy.  I think WWS2 was definitely worth doing and, like I said, I don't know of anything else that would have accomplished the same goals in as straightforward a way.  

[Colleen in NS]

My dd did WWS1 last year for 8th grade. She did very well with it and learned a lot. She would like a change, but I think a second year may be good for her. She has been slower in developing Spelling, Grammar, and Writing skills! But she is doing better now. If you have done book 2 of WWS also, how did you like it? Was it worth it? Did your dc learn a lot of new things from it? Or do you wish you had done another program? Thanks, Lillian

 

My son used WWS 2 in Grades 9/10, and it really helped him to develop his writing skills.  Like Nakia, I can't say enough good things about WWS!!  Students learn the skills in it, and then learn how to apply them to a wide variety of topics.  Ds is in WWS 3 now, and the same comments apply.  Also, my daughter is using WWS 2 now.  It has really helped her, too.

[Melissa in Australia]

We started it this year and are around 1/4 of the way through. I really like it. IT is really assisting dd in her research   and writing skills and she is transferring the knowledge over to her history writing. :thumbup1:

[nansk]

I will skip WWS1 with my younger and do a different program for that material (narration and description), and then switch into WWS2.

Which other program? Do share. :bigear:

[Chrysalis Academy]

Here's a slightly different take: We started WWS2, but decided that we would rather write about topics in our own history/science studies, rather than write about the given topics.  I have used WWS mostly as a teaching guide - it helps me see the pieces, skills that I need to be teaching, the kind of assignments that make sense at this level, and what kind of expectations are reasonable.  But we only did a few assignments from the book.

 

I really like SWB's writing philosophy and re-listen to her writing lectures frequently.  But my kid fits into the category SWB described:  a good/natural writer for whom this approach was too parts-to-whole to be a good fit.  I'm really, really, looking forward to the Writing With Skill Guidebook that SWB has promised to write after she finishes all three WWS levels! I will buy and use that in a hot second, but the curriculum itself is a no-go for us.

[SoCal Sandra]

My sons are14 and say they learned much from the WWS series. Even though they are natural writers, I chose WWS to help them develop a more methodical approach to their writing. Gifted writers sometimes find it hard to reign themselves in and follow the structure required of particular professional settings. I saw this periodically during the decades when I practiced law.

 

By the end of WWS1, dss were able to use the program somewhat independently. HTH.

[lewelma]

Which other program? Do share. :bigear:

 

I am doing the Description and Narrative units covered in WWS1 using a slightly more whole to parts curriculum written in 1900! 

 

Writing in English: a modern school composition by Maxwell

 

The book is easier to use than WWS1 because it does not have the 'taught to the student' approach, so it is not as wordy.  Many of the examples are pulled from fiction, rather than nonfiction like WWS1, so it is a better fit for my younger. Its explanations and assignments are excellent, and done in a very similar copy-the-masters approach that WWS uses.  In fact, I think it is possible that SWB read this curriculum and adapted/augmented it to her own goals for WWS of teaching academic writing in a self-guided way. 

 

After finishing Writing in English, my plan is to spend 2 weeks reading, outlining, and studying some of the nonfiction examples in WWS1 before moving to WWS2.  But then I will use WWS2 like Rose does, as a guide for what to teach (using the examples and teacher materials) and how much to expect (length, frequency, complexity of assignments), but using our own topics for my son's writing.  Just like Rose, I need that WWS Guidebook!

 

Ruth in NZ

[Chrysalis Academy]

I know this is the high school board, so this is probably just sampling bias but . . . it's interesting that most posters here who like WWS are using it with older kids.  That fits with my impression, and SWB's revised recommendations, that this program is a better fit for a slightly older student (even if a younger is capable of using it).  I know this has been discussed a bunch before, but it's interesting to me anyway.

[Jilly]

Gifted writers sometimes find it hard to reign themselves in and follow the structure required of particular professional settings. 

 

I have to agree with this. My daughter is a gifted writer, and one of her biggest problems is that she can't reign it in. WWS has helped her immensely with this. 

[LillianinAL]

Thank you all for your helpful comments. I think I will have dd continue on with WWS2. She learned a lot with the first book. She would like to be a creative writer, but she really needs the instruction of WWS. Thanks so much!

[Colleen in NS]

I know this is the high school board, so this is probably just sampling bias but . . . it's interesting that most posters here who like WWS are using it with older kids.  That fits with my impression, and SWB's revised recommendations, that this program is a better fit for a slightly older student (even if a younger is capable of using it).  I know this has been discussed a bunch before, but it's interesting to me anyway.

 

If WWS had been available when my son was in Grade 6, I would have had him go through it then.  He already had a basic foundation in narrations and copywork/dictation.  But it wasn't available til he was in Grade 8, so that's when he started it.  Before that (and after narrations and dictations) he was doing outlines from books and had just started rewriting from outlines.  But when WWS came out, I found it to include all that plus more that I am so glad we have learned, so I am having him go through the course (he's on level 3 now).

[JadeOrchidSong]

lewelma Ruth,

Is this the book? It is only $8.70.

http://www.amazon.com/Composition-Grammar-Classes-Classic-Reprint/dp/B0099TOAMW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1404615949&sr=8-1&keywords=school+composition

[JadeOrchidSong]

I am doing the Description and Narrative units covered in WWS1 using a slightly more whole to parts curriculum written in 1900!

 

Writing in English: a modern school composition by Maxwell

 

The book is easier to use than WWS1 because it does not have the 'taught to the student' approach, so it is not as wordy. Many of the examples are pulled from fiction, rather than nonfiction like WWS1, so it is a better fit for my younger. Its explanations and assignments are excellent, and done in a very similar copy-the-masters approach that WWS uses. In fact, I think it is possible that SWB read this curriculum and adapted/augmented it to her own goals for WWS of teaching academic writing in a self-guided way.

 

After finishing Writing in English, my plan is to spend 2 weeks reading, outlining, and studying some of the nonfiction examples in WWS1 before moving to WWS2. But then I will use WWS2 like Rose does, as a guide for what to teach (using the examples and teacher materials) and how much to expect (length, frequency, complexity of assignments), but using our own topics for my son's writing. Just like Rose, I need that WWS Guidebook!

 

Ruth in NZ

I cannot find this book on amazon.com, but only on amazon.it or amazon.es. Did you buy a printed copy somewhere? Is it the same, different, or similar to the one i link in my link in the previous post?

[nansk]

I cannot find this book on amazon.com, but only on amazon.it or amazon.es. Did you buy a printed copy somewhere? Is it the same, different, or similar to the one i link in my link in the previous post?

William Maxwell wrote a whole series of grammar and writing books. School Composition (which you linked) is for 4th and 5th grades (Maxwell calls these "the higher grammar grades"). The Writing in English book (which Ruth referred to) follows that. The sub-title says the book is for the higher grammar grades and high school.

 

You can have an out-of-copyright book printed and bound for you via the Espresso Book Machine.

[Chrysalis Academy]

If WWS had been available when my son was in Grade 6, I would have had him go through it then.  He already had a basic foundation in narrations and copywork/dictation.  But it wasn't available til he was in Grade 8, so that's when he started it.  Before that (and after narrations and dictations) he was doing outlines from books and had just started rewriting from outlines.  But when WWS came out, I found it to include all that plus more that I am so glad we have learned, so I am having him go through the course (he's on level 3 now).

 

Sure, you would have had him do it, but would you guys have liked it so much? And been so successful?  That's my only point.  It *is* a big step up from the descriptions of middle grade writing in WTM, for example.  Which may be perfect for an older student, but maybe not so much for a 5th grader.  

 

I'm not trying to stir the pot or anything - I don't think my comment is even controversial, given that SWB said it herself in her revised recommendations for WWS.  I just think it's interesting - and cool - that so many users with older kids have been very happy with the program, whereas you get a lot more posters with a different experience on the Logic boards, where people tried doing it at the as-written speed with their 5th graders.  That's all.  :)   With my first kid, I was on the bandwagon and jumped in right away in 5th. full steam.  It's clear to me now that, while she could do the work, she would get more out of it as an older student.  Poor guinea pig!  Live and learn.

[PeterPan]

I'm not trying to stir the pot or anything - I don't think my comment is even controversial, given that SWB said it herself in her revised recommendations for WWS.  I just think it's interesting - and cool - that so many users with older kids have been very happy with the program, whereas you get a lot more posters with a different experience on the Logic boards, where people tried doing it at the as-written speed with their 5th graders.  That's all.  :)   With my first kid, I was on the bandwagon and jumped in right away in 5th. full steam.  It's clear to me now that, while she could do the work, she would get more out of it as an older student.  Poor guinea pig!  Live and learn.

Bingo.  And for a while there, until SWB put out that chart, people were digging in and jabbing and pretty much saying our kids were dumb if they were doing WWS later.   ;)  Such is the way of the boards I guess, lol.  I'm super happy for people whose kids were ready to do that thought process early, and I'm sure there were some out there.  When you say you just want to do narrations for a while and tread water, that's really smart.  Go creative with it!  Explore how those simple outlines and narrations could merge with powerpoint projects or short documentaries or skits or creative projects.  Don't think so in the box.  Michael Gravois has some marvelous graphic organizers.  ANYTHING you do to work on organizing and synthesizing thoughts is time well-spent.  

 

Just as a side trip, have y'all looked at the common core LA pdf link someone posted on Gen?  What a bunch of AWFUL writing!!  So they have K5ers writing "sentences" but they're HORRIBLE, filled with misspellings and poor grammar and pathetic thinking.  How much better would it have been to have had an actual conversation with the child and just talked and built their skills?  And then they could have separately built their spelling skills and when things were READY to be pulled together into intelligent output THEN worked on formal written expression.  No, in the new mindset everything is better early.  The answer to poor skills later is to bring them down and try them earlier.  

 

So whether it's WWS or common core, to me the way you apply WTM has always been to build a foundation of readiness, then go in when the dc is really ready to do it.  You can't rush foundation, and frankly you can't build it too much.  That's why doing WWS later works well with some kids.  As far as what age it should be used, I have no opinion.  I know the content is strikingly similar to the college rhetoric book I have here, so I really don't feel compelled to say it's necessary for 5th graders.  I think it can be profitable for a long time and that you should go into it when your dc is really to wrap their brains around it and really GET it.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Ds1 took over two years to do WWS1 with Student Writing Intensive B doing forl the the second year most of the time. I have learned that WWS1 for 5th grade is too much, too overwhelming for MY children. So this time around, I will use School Composition for ds2 a after he finished WWE1--4. I will follow what lewelma maps put for her ds2 and skip WWS 1 mostly and do WWS 2 at 7th or 8th grade for ds2. Ds1 will do Jump In before WWS 2 to solidify his writing before moving on.

[PeterPan]

Ds1 took over two years to do WWS1 with Student Writing Intensive B doing forl the the second year most of the time. I have learned that WWS1 for 5th grade is too much, too overwhelming for MY children. So this time around, I will use School Composition for ds2 a after he finished WWE1--4. I will follow what lewelma maps put for her ds2 and skip WWS 1 mostly and do WWS 2 at 7th or 8th grade for ds2. Ds1 will do Jump In before WWS 2 to solidify his writing before moving on.

You know, I think I saw that post by Lewelma or heard wind of it or something.  She's free to do whatever she wants, but the whole idea of skipping WWS1 entirely makes NO SENSE to me.  We did WWS1 later and just condensed and skipped the things we no longer needed.  That way every step was small, gradual, comfortable, and (for the most part) easy.  I don't see why it's reasonable advice to a general population to SKIP the entire first level of a program that's meant to be incremental and gentle.  WWS1 establishes the thought process, and I really don't think it's wise.  If it works for one particular person's dc, that's super awesome.  But just as general advice to the general population, I think you're MUCH wiser to get WWS1 and condense and skip.  

 

Just my two cents.  :)

[JadeOrchidSong]

Great perspective, OhElizabeth. I will choose and condense WWS 1 if we need to. Right now ds9.5 is not ready to go from WWE 4 and IEW Student Writing Intensive A to WWS 1 yet and I need to find something in between. School Composition has been mentioned by three people here, so I will give it serious consideration. W&R is also an option for us. After that, I will reevaluate and maybe have him do part of WWS 1.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I think W&R Narrative 2 is an *excellent* bridge between WWE & WWS, FWIW.  It builds the skills of summarizing and composing historical narratives, plus outlining, but the selections are easier to manage.  It also has some nice basic literary analysis/terms which will make that section of WWS much easier to handle, as well.

[PeterPan]

Great perspective, OhElizabeth. I will choose and condense WWS 1 if we need to. Right now ds9.5 is not ready to go from WWE 4 and IEW Student Writing Intensive A to WWS 1 yet and I need to find something in between. School Composition has been mentioned by three people here, so I will give it serious consideration. W&R is also an option for us. After that, I will reevaluate and maybe have him do part of WWS 1.

I don't know about the cut-offs where you live, but around here a 9.5 yo is a rising 4th grader.  My ds has a fall b-day, and that's tricky.  Rose's suggestions on filling that gap between WWE and WWS seem good.  I'm a little out of the loop.  We used WT and CW (Classical Writing).  I think CW has faded from vogue and been replaced by other progymnasta programs, but WT is REALLY really terrific, highly recommend.  Actually, shhh, but I was looking at some BraveWriter today to see if it might be an interesting fit for my ds.  I'm saying it's ok to be eclectic.  You're not crazy.   :)

[JadeOrchidSong]

Ds11.5 tried Wrting Tales. He enjoyed it for a week or two before becoming bored. After that we did IEW Student Writing Intensive A with some success. He improved greatly after finishing WWS 1 and IEW Stdent Intensive B.

Ds9.5 did great with IEW SWI A last year. He write very creatively and well.

I just read google book Writing in English that lewelma Ruth linked and really like it. It certainly approaches writing from whole to part. I like the samples for study from classi writings like Charles Dickens. I will take another look at the previous level called School Composition by Maxwell to see if it fits ds9.5 better. I will check again W&R Narrative 2. Hope I will make a good decision for him.

[lewelma]

OhE, I completely agree with you.  I would never suggest someone teach writing the way I do. :eek:   I cannot follow a curriculum to save myself.  I heavily adapted WWS1 and WWS2 and basically turned them into a guidebook for me, but using other example paragraphs that were more relevant to my child.  And a major portion of WWS1, writing from notes taken from material the student never saw, was a complete no go for us.  That aspect was dropped in WWS2 and 3.

 

All I was trying to say to the original poster, is that WWS2 and 3 are far better than WWS1 IMHO.  So if WWS1 was in any way working (which it sounded like it was), then definitely use WWS2 because you will be pleasantly surprised.

 

When I said that I would skip WWS1 and just use levels 2 and 3, my approach is more nuanced than that.  I will use the *entire* program as a guidebook, but will use WW2 and 3 more as written.

 

Ruth in NZ

[JadeOrchidSong]

Thanks, lewelma. I am not trying to make you look bad. I heard about School Composition by Maxwell and seriously planned to use it as a bridge between WWE and WWS 1 before you mentioned it here. Anyway, yours is a level higher than School Composition. I will compare the two and decide.

[lewelma]

You could actually do both.  Writing in English is more fiction focused whereas WWS is more nonficiton, so they are very complementary.  Also, given that Maxwell shows the big picture so well, WWS1 would be much more understandable to a whole to parts child if Writing in English went first.

 

My son is a young 5th grader this year, and there is no way that I would put him through WWS1.  He just loves playing with language, and is not ready for the serious study that is WWS1.  Next year, I will see how much of Maxwell translates directly into understanding WWS1.  Either it will directly translate, and we will just review the WWS1 material on the way to WWS2; or it will not, and then we will use WWS1 as a guidebook but write across the curriculum for a year.  I always adapt my writing instruction and expectations to the child in front of me, and it is definitely a moving target!

 

I am currently running a thread about ds's writing, and there is an example of his first composition using Writing in English if you want to take a peak.  (it is a thread about spelling, so be warned!) http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/520501-need-advice-on-language-arts-asynchrony/ .

 

Ruth in NZ

[PeterPan]

OhE, I completely agree with you.  I would never suggest someone teach writing the way I do. :eek:   I cannot follow a curriculum to save myself.  I heavily adapted WWS1 and WWS2 and basically turned them into a guidebook for me, but using other example paragraphs that were more relevant to my child.  And a major portion of WWS1, writing from notes taken from material the student never saw, was a complete no go for us.  That aspect was dropped in WWS2 and 3.

 

All I was trying to say to the original poster, is that WWS2 and 3 are far better than WWS1 IMHO.  So if WWS1 was in any way working (which it sounded like it was), then definitely use WWS2 because you will be pleasantly surprised.

 

When I said that I would skip WWS1 and just use levels 2 and 3, my approach is more nuanced than that.  I will use the *entire* program as a guidebook, but will use WW2 and 3 more as written.

 

Ruth in NZ

It's interesting to hear your thought process.  Your oldest has some SN or LDs, right?  (I lose track!) Just because I got WWS 1 and 2 to work for my dd with our hack method doesn't mean I will be able to get it to work for my ds, mercy.  He's his own ball of wax, and I could totally see doing something like you're saying, taking the concepts and transferring them to materials and scenarios that DO engage him.  That's terrific teaching and definitely what people should do!  :)

[lewelma]

  That's terrific teaching and definitely what people should do!   :)

 

Aw, thanks. :blush:

 

I do feel like I am finally coming into my own in teaching writing.  I just needed to read just about every curriculum and writing book out there to make sense of a process that I do automatically.

[lewelma]

 taking the concepts and transferring them to materials and scenarios that DO engage him. 

 

My younger is doing all his writing this year using Hogwarts is Here, which is some strange mix of analytical study mixed with creative writing.  Last week he had to read 3 different texts and find and analyse the loop holes in Gamp's Laws of Transfiguration. :rolleyes:

 

I was just going to let him learn as he went, but then he asked me if I would please use a program to teach him how to write, and he would apply the ideas to his writing on Hogwarts.  I was like :001_huh: . I could not believe that a 10 year old would have that kind of meta-cognition about the writing process.

 

So, he has just finished studying Washington Irving's description style, and applying it to his writing about the Hufflepuff common room.

 

I guess we all do what works!

 

[lewelma]

I dug up a thread that should be helpful to the OP.  In it I and others discuss how exactly we went about actually teaching WWS.  So basically how we adapted it to our homeschools to make it work for our individual kids.

 

Here is how I am teaching the material in WWS1-3.  What are you doing?

 

Hope it helps!

 

Ruth in NZ

 

[nansk]

...I heard about School Composition by Maxwell and seriously planned to use it as a bridge between WWE and WWS 1 before you mentioned it here. Anyway, yours is a level higher than School Composition. I will compare the two and decide.

Last night, I browsed through the Maxwell books as well as the Elson readers. The Elson reader meant for 5th grade is called the "grammar school reader 1".

 

This leads me to think that grammar school was grades 5-8. So Maxwell's School Composition, which is meant for "the higher grammar grades", probably refers to grades 7-8. And Maxwell's Writing In English is for "the higher grammar grades and high school" which probably refers to grade 9.

 

[JadeOrchidSong]

Last night, I browsed through the Maxwell books as well as the Elson readers. The Elson reader meant for 5th grade is called the "grammar school reader 1".

 

This leads me to think that grammar school was grades 5-8. So Maxwell's School Composition, which is meant for "the higher grammar grades", probably refers to grades 7-8. And Maxwell's Writing In English is for "the higher grammar grades and high school" which probably refers to grade 9.

 

I agree with you, nansk. I think School Composition for the Higher Grammar Grades looks easier.

[sbgrace]

I agree with you, nansk. I think School Composition for the Higher Grammar Grades looks easier.

 

I think it looks easier too. It's what I had originally planned to use, but I wasn't aware of the Writing in English book.

 

But would it get you to the same spot, or do would you need to follow it with the next Maxwell book, or something else, prior to trying WWS 1?

 

In other words, is it worth doing the School Composition at all?

[JadeOrchidSong]

I think it looks easier too. It's what I had originally planned to use, but I wasn't aware of the Writing in English book.

 

But would it get you to the same spot, or do would you need to follow it with the next Maxwell book, or something else, prior to trying WWS 1?

 

In other words, is it worth doing the School Composition at all?

I have the same questions as you. Can lewelwa help us, please?

[nansk]

I have the same questions as you. Can lewelwa help us, please?

 

You should contact moms who have actually used School Composition. If you search the K8 and Logic forums, you will find a few threads discussing this book.

 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

To share a view from a student who enjoys the randomness of WWS....

 

Just a bit ago, Lily opened WWS2 for the day and started sharing interesting tidbits about bamboo as she read. She has no abiding interest in bamboo, nor are we studying bamboo elsewhere--it just happened to be the lesson du jour. We discussed our experiences with bamboo a bit when she mentioned something interesting, then we went back to our respective work.

 

Suddenly she slammed her hand on the desk and exclaimed, "I like that phrasing!" She then read a sentence from the book a few times--rather loudly and excitedly...

(Hey, kid--it's just bamboo, settle down.... :lol: )

 

She just finished her assignment and is all smiles. :)  (At least until I start making corrections... :sneaky2: ;) )

 

There are so many reasons why a program will or won't work. WWS isn't for everyone, but we :001_wub:  it here!

 

ETA: I was right...she's not smiling now! :laugh:

 

[Colleen in NS]

. . . it's interesting that most posters here who like WWS are using it with older kids.  That fits with my impression, and SWB's revised recommendations, that this program is a better fit for a slightly older student (even if a younger is capable of using it).

 I was addressing this part of your post.  I just didn't want you to think that I (as presumably included in your "most posters here who like WWS" comment) was using it because of wanting to wait til ds got older.  In my reply to you, all I wanted to do was clarify that.  :)

 

Sure, you would have had him do it, but would you guys have liked it so much? And been so successful?  That's my only point.  It *is* a big step up from the descriptions of middle grade writing in WTM, for example.  Which may be perfect for an older student, but maybe not so much for a 5th grader.  

 

I'm not trying to stir the pot or anything - I don't think my comment is even controversial, given that SWB said it herself in her revised recommendations for WWS.  I just think it's interesting - and cool - that so many users with older kids have been very happy with the program, whereas you get a lot more posters with a different experience on the Logic boards, where people tried doing it at the as-written speed with their 5th graders. 

 

My son doesn't like to do writing lessons, period.  That is probably because I don't know how to teach writing skills myself; thus I rely on lesson books (that teach in a way that makes sense to me/us and that are within our financial means, but that have tasks he may not always enjoy doing).  But yes, I think he would have done well with it back in Grade 6 (Grade 5 was spent shoring up his narration/copywork/dictation skills with the then-freshly-published WWE instructor text, because there were things in that book that I hadn't known to do in his earlier grades) because he was ready with the foundation and because WWS 1 is written for that age range.

 

As it is now, he is rather frustrated about having to go through WWS these days because of the detailedness of it (which is great for younger students).  If that WWS instructor guide was published already, I'd be using that with him as an older student.  But, it's not, and I don't know how else to teach writing skills and I like how WWS teaches them, so WWS as currently available now is it for him.  :)

 

My daughter started WWS partway through Grade 5 and has done well with it after a foundation in WWE, too.  She is working through it at her pace as well, not one-book-a-year.

 

I didn't think your comment was controversial, either.  I simply wanted to give you another angle to look at, as to why some of our older students are using WWS.  On the other hand, I'm glad you're encouraged to see older kids using it.  :)  And I am super-glad it's available, because I would not know how to do this with my kids without it.  And whenever someone comes here, laying out a need that I think WWS might help, I totally recommend it.  I don't think about the fact that the kid is in high school, because if the need is there, the age doesn't matter (and if others think it does matter and know of something else that would be better, they speak up, too - I just offer what I know).

 

Also, please don't think that I think, "of course Grade 5 kids should be able to do WWS."  I don't think that.  It just happens that my own two were ready to start it in the middle grades, and I was willing to not make them do them one-book-a-year.  I totally get that there are kids who would be better served by waiting a bit.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Oh, Colleen, I totally didn't mean to be picking on you!  I actually meant my question way more rhetorically than it came out.   :tongue_smilie:  It can be so hard to find a good writing fit, for the teacher and the student, that I'm genuinely delighted whenever somebody finds something that works for them!  

 

I actually don't think that most people who ended up using WWS with older kids did that by choice - I think most of you/us were just excited to have a writing program by SWB and glad to use it, even if it was "below grade level."  My real opinion is that it isn't "below grade level" at all - it's appropriate for a range of grade levels, although perhaps at different paces.  Which makes perfect sense.  Nobody should feel bad for using it with a 7th or 8th grader, just like nobody should feel smug using it with a 5th grader, KWIM?  Whatever it takes to get there!

 

I think, though, it is turning out to be an interesting accidental experiment, as some people started it with youngers and some with olders, and I just am interested in comparing the general impression of those users.   The most interesting anecdotes will actually come from people like you, who like it with an older and then use it with a younger student too - it will be interesting to see if you guys notice any difference in what your students got out of it at different ages.  And if different aged kids benefit from doing it at a different pace.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

...   The most interesting anecdotes will actually come from people like you, who like it with an older and then use it with a younger student too - it will be interesting to see if you guys notice any difference in what your students got out of it at different ages.  And if different aged kids benefit from doing it at a different pace.

 

I'm not sure this will show much. Children are so different! Perhaps the older one would have done fine in 5th--we'll never know. How the younger sibling does isn't really related, is it? They are two different children.

 

I understand what you're saying, but I think it's just tricky all the way around. Too many variables to tease out...

 

FWIW, I think that most programs are beneficial at different ages/paces with different kids.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Of course you are right - I thought about that right after I posted.

 

Why do I remain fascinated by other people's experience with WWS even though I'm not using it any more??  :confused:   Just neurotic I guess.  ;)  :001_tt2: