Can a young person survive without college?

[bnneale]

With the rising costs of college, the rapid increase of student debt, and the uncertainty of actually obtainign a job to pay off all that debt, we are really weighing the value of a college education at this point in time.  Our oldest is a senior next year, and our current bent is encouraging her in her entrepeneurship, maybe enrolling to take some business and accounting classes without pursuing a degree, and developing her different home businesses.  She currently has an Etsy store, raises meat goats, and is pursuing photography.  Ultimately, she is really interested in being a stay-at-home mom some day.  Our encouragement has been to find avenues in which she could supplement a family income without going into a financial pit of debt. 

 

Are we doing our child a disservice? 

[73349]

If that's what she wants to do, I think it's very sensible. I'd make sure she takes the SAT and/or ACT if she hasn't yet, and give her a transcript so that if she finds an opportunity in a few years that does involve a degree, she'll have the paperwork at hand.

[purplelily]

Have you seen Rhea Perry? She promotes entrepreneurial education.

 

http://rheaperry.com/entrepreneurial-education/

[Jenny in Florida]

I'll begin my response by saying that I do not believe the value of a college education is or should be financial. My own perspective is that one should go to college to learn and grow as a person, not to obtain vocational skills or as an "investment" in future earnings. So, if your daughter has no interest in college for the sake of college (that is, learning, expanding educational horizons, etc.), then, no, I would not push a young person into pursuing a four-year degree. 

 

With that said, if it were my kid, I would be encouraging her to consider working toward at least an associate's degree through the local community college. That is not an expensive or difficult proposition. Most community colleges have open enrollment, meaning you don't need to jump through many (or sometimes any) hoops to enroll. Tuition is lower than most other colleges, and I would encourage my student to live at home . Many community colleges offer two-year programs with all kinds of themes (including business administration), and most of the time, whatever credits the student earns there will transfer, should the student later decide to go on for a four-year degree.

 

Finally, since I know some folks will insist on making this about money, I offer the following recent article:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/27/upshot/is-college-worth-it-clearly-new-data-say.html?_r=0

 

[Χά�ων]

With the rising costs of college, the rapid increase of student debt, and the uncertainty of actually obtainign a job to pay off all that debt, we are really weighing the value of a college education at this point in time.  Our oldest is a senior next year, and our current bent is encouraging her in her entrepeneurship, maybe enrolling to take some business and accounting classes without pursuing a degree, and developing her different home businesses.  She currently has an Etsy store, raises meat goats, and is pursuing photography.  Ultimately, she is really interested in being a stay-at-home mom some day.  Our encouragement has been to find avenues in which she could supplement a family income without going into a financial pit of debt. 

 

Are we doing our child a disservice? 

She sounds like my DS. At 10 he has a small steady income an is working to increase it and looking at small jobs that he can do with his current skill set. 

 

What about a trade? 

 

I am encouraging DS to pursue a college education if only because where I live a person would be lucky to find a dead end job making minimum wage without a college degree. Even those working in skilled labor are struggling to find work. Even jobs that 10 years ago only needed a high school diploma now require a degree. Secretary work for example. I have watched several friends try to reenter the workforce and are unable to find a job in the field they worked in previously. For one friend she had worked her way up to office manager and cannot even get a job answering the phone after less than 5 years out of the workforce. She now cleans apartments and says that at least with that job she does not need a gym membership. But she started that at 39 and it has been hard on her body to do the manual labor and then come home and take her of her own house and family.

[Joker]

I've been trying to go back to work now that both of my dds are in public school. I can't even get a job answering phones without at least an Associate's degree. It's crazy but that's how it is now. I will complete my A.A. the end of this year and hopefully be able to get something. I hate the idea of not being able to go back to work at all as it can get very boring staying home alone every day.

[Crimson Wife]

I'm a big believer in some sort of post-H.S. education or training. There are relatively short courses that she could do without taking on loads of debt.

 

If she likes animals, what about a vet tech program? The one in my area is 23 semester units at $46/unit or roughly $1000 + books. She could pay for that with PT work.

 

A friend of mine for college is a vet and went to vet school with a lady who is a former HSer. The lady did a vet tech program, worked as a vet tech for a few years, then did a joint B.S./D.V.M. program at UC Davis.

[texasmama]

I would encourage something like a dental hygienist program, which can be completed in a short time and is an entry into a career that is well-paid for the education required and often offers flexible, part-time hours.

 

I have been a single mother and had to support myself and a child so I do have a desire to help all of my children (even girls who want/plan to be stay at home moms) attain some sort of skillset/education so they can support themselves financially as needed.  Also, sometimes marriage does not come around (ever) or for a long time so they need a means to support themselves.

 

But no, a four year college degree is not necessary for everyone.  Ironically, I have a masters degree in one of the lowest paying professions.  I know people with much less education who make much more money.

[idnib]

I would be unwilling to rely on the idea of her getting married, having children, and staying home. It's becoming more rare for those 3 things happening in the desired order and in a reasonable timeframe.

 

Here's some Pew research from 2011:

 

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011/12/14/marriage-rate-declines-and-marriage-age-rises/

 

Here's another study I've come across:

 

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2014/02/11/the-rising-cost-of-not-going-to-college/

 

Her dream is based on a lot of assumptions. Marriage rates are very low now and she can't make it happen by herself; even if she's willing, many young men are not. What if she or her husband cannot conceive? What if they lose their child? What if he leaves her or dies? What if he loses his job?

 

I think without an AA degree or some sort of trade training, you would be doing her a disservice. 

[Teachin'Mine]

Why does it have to be either work or college?  She could continue with her businesses and take classes at the community college.   If she takes lots of business/accounting classes, she can still pursue her AA degree.  Then she'll have something if she needs to get a "regular" job, business knowledge to help her in her entrepreneurial pursuits, and the ability to continue to a four year college if she chooses to in the future.   If she plans to homeschool, the additional education will never go to waste.

[bettyandbob]

Honestly, I would not want my dd to have the goal of "get married, stay home". I'd wonder if she'd become desperate and accept any type of fellow for a husband. And even if she met a decent guy not all marriages last, sometimes men die young (my friend's dh died a two weeks ago, she's got 3 kids to support). She actually went back to work part time a year after he was diagnosed with cancer 4 years ago. I was a little surprised when she did, but my guess is they decided it would be good for her to be ready to be the breadwinner when the time came. She won't be working this summer, but in September she will likely be in a full time job. 

 

So, if my dc did not want to pursue a 4 year degree I would strongly encourage getting vocational training and possibly finishing a regular AA (so that later finishing a BA will not be so hard). Both of these things can be done at community colleges. Building trades ( plumbing, HVAC, electrical, etc), medical (CNA, PTA, dental hygenist, vet tech, massage therapy), cosmetology, small engine repair, IT certifications (for this one you have to plan on continuously working because these skills get old quick). Many of these training programs are offered through my public school system's adult ed programming as well. 

 

Additionally, not everyone has the personality to be an entrepreneur. Some people are just not good at selling something or selling their own skills. 

 

For jobs that have no obvious skill certification, many employers want to see a BA in anything before they interview. It's a weed out. The person with a BA in Asian Studies is more likely to be hired as admin person in an office than someone without. That's just the way it is. So, I'd rather my dc get a 4 year degree in a liberal arts field just to be able to check that box on a job application. If he or she really is not going to college then I will insist they get some sort of certification. 

[lmrich]

Some training or education will make her life easier. Healthcare or child are makes sense for one who wants to be a stay at home mom. I think furthering her education also makes one more interesting.

[JenneinCA]

I think a young person could survive without a degree. The problem is when that young person gets older and is no longer young and has people that depend on them. That is when it gets hard.

[maize]

I am all in favor of staying home and raising children as a fabulous life choice, but I will be encouraging both my daughters and my sons to take advantage of the years before marriage and family to get as much education and develop their career potential as far as possible. There are just too many unknowns for a woman who plans to be a SAHM to not also have a plan that would support herself and family if needed, and I do think college and even graduate or professional school are often the best way to go. College doesn't have to be expensive, we will be relying on less expensive options and scholarship money to get my children through school, but I do think it is worthwhile.

 

In addition, it can be a good place to find a spouse who values education and is working towards a career that can support a family.

[Gwen in VA]

I know too many young women who are at home twiddling their thumbs and waiting to get married while the young men of similar age are at college dating (and marrying) the young women they find there to advocate staying at home as a route towards marriage.

[G5052]

I know too many young women who are at home twiddling their thumbs and waiting to get married while the young men of similar age are at college dating (and marrying) the young women they find there to advocate staying at home as a route towards marriage.

 

I know more than a few college guys and recent graduates from our relatives, church, homeschooling, and my college teaching.  So I get a lot of graduation and wedding announcements.  

 

And all of the ones that have gotten married recently married gals who had completed some kind of vocational training or college.  Maybe it is different in some circles, but not in mine.  And all of the young women I know who are "stay at home daughters" are unmarried still.

[creekland]

I know I met my one and only, great, lovable guy in college.  We were in the same dorm.  I'm even eternally grateful that I ended up at my second choice school (for financial reasons) due to meeting him there above all else.

 

My oldest met his spouse in college.  Today is their 1st Anniversary, so only more laps around the sun will tell if he stays happy, but for right now he certainly is.

[SkateLeft]

I agree with the folks who suggested that she learn a trade or get some business education. I think the days of planning on just being a housewife are over. Frankly, God doesn't call all women to married life.

 

I earned a BA degree, but after staying home for 18 years, I don't have any real job skills. I've volunteered and even worked a little bit, but my work history is spotty and almost non-existant. If something happened to my husband, I'd be hard pressed to find something that would enable to me to support my family. My education has served me well in teaching my own kids, but it wouldn't open any career doors for me.

 

So I went back to school this year. I'm at a technical CC, learning a trade and having a blast. As much as I loved my university experience, I wish I'd done this years ago. There's tremendous peace of mind in knowing that I can support my family now if I have to. It's also really satisfying.

[katilac]

 Ultimately, she is really interested in being a stay-at-home mom some day.  Our encouragement has been to find avenues in which she could supplement a family income without going into a financial pit of debt. 

 

Are we doing our child a disservice? 

 

You don't know if she's ultimately going to be interested in that; she's interested in it right now, at what, 16 or so?  Her interests and plans could vastly change in the future. Heck, I was once interested in having 5 kids and sending them to school; I am now quite happy to have 2 that are home educated. You just cannot know what the future holds, even if your desires do remain the same. 

 

She might marry someone who wants his turn to stay home with the kids! And, even if one parent is designated to stay home, it isn't forever unless you have a boatload of kids. I worked full-time for 10 years after leaving college and before having kids. When they go to college in a few short years, I will be back to work for at least another 10 years,  more likely 15-20. 

 

I think you are doing her a disservice if you don't encourage her to find work that she can support herself with, whether she goes to college or not. It's a fine idea to think of ways to supplement a family income at some point in the future, but she could be 10 to 15 years away from having kids! Side jobs and small businesses that generate plenty of income for a teen are not going to cut it for a full grown adult. It's tough to make a living wage, much less enough to counter the lack of benefits. And it's tough to run a business while home with the kids. Littles need a lot of attention, and bigs need a lot of home schooling  :)

 

Do your own research. Don't just read articles on high college debt and react from fear. She doesn't have to attend a $50,000 a year university. There are very few places where it is impossible to get some type of higher education without massive debt. We have at least one university within commuting distance that costs about $7,000 a year - not a massive debt, particularly if you are working and paying some as you go. Our community college is less than half that.  

[katilac]

Duplicate post.  

 

[AMJ]

There are ways to make a living without a college degree.  I know several people pursuing this, and all are dedicated, hard-working, and careful with their money.

 

I also knew (when I worked a paycheck job) lots of people who thought they were well-educated for their life plans, only to have life kick up some surprises and find they really need the better marketability of a 4-year (or higher) degree in their areas of experience, at a time when they can ill afford the money or time to pursue getting that education.  It is a LOT easier to manage getting a degree before you have kids to raise, are the primary (or sole) breadwinner for the brood, and perhaps have a disabled spouse to care for as well.

 

I also know first-hand the pitfalls of going into debt ($30K in student loans) to get a degree in a field I LOVE, but has next to no marketability outside of the field, and few living-wage jobs available (with lots of competition for them) in that field.

 

I would encourage your teen to continue to pursue her entrepreneurship, but at the same time pursue degree(s) in business.  If her business takes off the education she gets pursuing that degree can be invaluable, and if her business falters the degree can help her land other work to help pay the bills and perhaps relaunch her own business plans.  It's all about building options for herself in case life doesn't go as planned.

 

As for whether she can handle the workload of running a business while pursuing her studies -- that is for her to decide.  If she decides it is important to her then I am confident she will find a way to make it work.  I worked 3 part-time jobs totaling 30+ hours per week while pursuing full-time school to make ends meet and try to keep my student loans from growing even further.  A classmate of mine had his own business and returned to school so he would be as educated and up-to-date as the employees he was hiring (he had a great wife to take care of the kids and great employees to keep the business running while he was at school).  It can be done, if carefully planned.

 

My advice:  go for the degree(s) before life gets too complicated.

 

[maize]

My mom went to college and worked briefly before marrying and raising ten kids as a SAHM. My parents wholly support the value of women being home to raise their children, but my whole life it was also clear that they expected and supported their daughters 100% in getting a college education. It never occurred to me that a plan to be a SAHM could be seen as a reason not to go to college.

[AMJ]

Honestly, I would not want my dd to have the goal of "get married, stay home". I'd wonder if she'd become desperate and accept any type of fellow for a husband.

 

I know one gal who did exactly this.  Her life fell apart so much her kids have been taken away from her and are in foster care.  Each of her kids has a different father, each one worse than his predecessor.

[Hoggirl]

I know I am a broken record, but "Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."

[Anacharsis]

A place to start might be to compare your local colleges against Payscale's ROI calculations (keeping in mind that they are made assuming no debt -- the interest payments can eat up the long-term advantage from some schools.)

[freesia]

I agree with all of the above. My best friend from childhood didn't finish college bc she got married. 6 years and 2 kids later she was separated and barely making it financially. She and her dh did get back together, but it made me realize how we just never know what the future will hold.

[momacacia]

A former boss of mine died at 45 of brain cancer, leaving his wife with 3 kids under 7. Fortunately, she was already working on her PhD and in addition to the 3 kids left her with his only-child trust fund. Otherwise she'd have had a much harder row to hoe.

[daijobu]

Does she want to HS her own children?  A college degree really helps, especially in math and science.  I feel very lucky to have these skills that I can pass on to my own kids.

[Susan in TN]

Something I am "keeping in the back of my mind" for a couple of my kids who are very mechanically minded is College Plus or major dual enrollment during high school with a business degree or AA of some kind, and then after high school going to trade school and learn auto mechanics or plumbing or something like that. Their interests may take them elsewhere, but I think it would be a great option.

[Catherine]

One other consideration is simply that for all but the most unusual women, being a SAHM is a season of life. Now I suppose some manage to make that season extremely long, but for most of us, it's 20 years, give or take. Even if it's 30 years...hopefully most of us still have a lot of good years after 50.

[*LC]

Our oldest is a senior next year, and our current bent is encouraging her in her entrepeneurship, maybe enrolling to take some business and accounting classes without pursuing a degree, and developing her different home businesses.  She currently has an Etsy store, raises meat goats, and is pursuing photography.  ... Our encouragement has been to find avenues in which she could supplement a family income without going into a financial pit of debt. 

 

Are we doing our child a disservice? 

 

Does she want to go to college? I think that is an important question, because I don't believe everyone needs to go to college. However, I don't think planning to be a SAHM is a reason not to go, if that makes sense. There is no way to know when (or even if), she will be a SAHM. Can she support herself in 4 or 5 years with those businesses? If not, then she needs another plan. 

 

I have a couple out-of-the-box suggestions. Since your daughter has a lot of interests that would have her running her own business, I agree business or accounting classes would be a good idea. However, I am going to suggest have her look into getting at least an AA degree in accounting. If she wants, she can keep going for a 4-year degree when the time comes to make that decision. 

 

In addition to being helpful for her businesses, accounting degrees have a good number of part-time options. My sister, who has an accounting degree, wanted to go back to work when her youngest hit kindergarten. She had been out of the workforce for about 10 years. She gave her resume to a headhunter, who had a job that sounded perfect. When the headhunter called to set up an interview, the company hired her without even meeting her. She has been there a few years now, and she sets her own hours/days for the most part; she does have to plan around meetings and quarterly & year end reports. She works some from home and some from the office. I think she works two part-time days a week during the schoolyear and one full day during the summer. She is stilll an active volunteer at her kids' school.

 

Have you looked into Washington's running start program? "Students in grades 11 and 12 are allowed to take college courses at Washington’s community and technical colleges, and at Central Washington University, Eastern Washington University, Washington State University, and Northwest Indian College. Running Start Students and their families do not pay tuition, but they do pay college fees and buy their own books, as well as provide their own transportation." 

 

It would allow her to get at least a year of tuition paid for while working on these college classes. (I saw at least, because I have known a few homeschoolers who have added a "super senior" year along the way for a variety of reasons.) 

 

I don't know all the ins and outs of the program in terms of whether there are restrictions on what courses it will cover, but you should be good with general ed requirements for sure. If you had those paid for, you could then pay for the accounting classes as planned. The difference being, she would have a degree after those classes were completed to use if she ever wanted/needed to use it.

 

I see people have mentioned death and divorce as reasons she may need a degree. I will give you another one, disability. My husband died a number of years ago. With savings and social security, we are fine financially for the day-to-day expenses, & even the extras and the surprises. However, his life insurance is what will pay for college. My husband was disabled for a  short period of time before he died. It took me years to realize, that if he had lived longterm, the resulting  increased expenses coupled with no life insurance, would have made it more difficult to afford college for all our kids.

 

Your daughter sounds like a go-getter who may be able to survive without college. However,having a college degree (or another marketable skill) will allow her to thrive if things don't go according to plan.