Struggling Speller - Double Up?

[Ramie]

My daughter who is going into 6th grade in the fall, struggles mightily at spelling.  Her recent standardized test placed her in the 16th percentile in spelling (and above average in all the other measures, making it appear that her potential is much higher than her current ability).  She has been using All About Spelling, and while I think it is a wonderful program, I have not been able to do it with her consistently.  The one subject she needs the most work on, is the subject that she covers the least, because with the busy-ness of our school days, the thing that requires us to clean off the desk and pull out the giant tray of tiny pieces is the thing that gets put off and put off... I know that I SHOULD say, "just do it, your child needs this."  But I've already said that, and I can not seem to pull it together with all of the other things pulling at me during the day.  I had her take the placement test for Phonetic Zoo, and the result was that she was ready for the first level of it (if she had scored worse, they would've recommended All About Spelling), so I think I am going to get that for her, since it can be done much more independently - which means it will get done.

 

I don't know that it is really the best program for her though, and I keep being reminded of how good AAS is.  So I am mulling through a couple of options for next year:

 

1-Have her ALSO continue with All About Spelling at whatever pace I can muster, knowing that it will be a second program.  Not sure if doing 2 spelling programs will be confusing or just provide the extra that she needs.

 

2-Have her teach All About Spelling to one of her younger sisters.  This way the spelling rules will be snuck into her brain too, and she has more time to do it more consistently than I do.  Of course I don't want to short change the younger children.  She is a good teacher, but she's not Mom.

 

Has anyone doubled up like that (#1) or had an older child teach a younger child with an ulterior motive?  How did it go?

[Ellie]

I have a different suggestion: Spalding. ;-) All you need is the manual and a set of phonogram cards and you're good to go, for all your children, forever. (Each child 8yo and older will need a spelling notebook yearly.)

[MerryAtHope]

 

2-Have her teach All About Spelling to one of her younger sisters.  This way the spelling rules will be snuck into her brain too, and she has more time to do it more consistently than I do.  Of course I don't want to short change the younger children.  She is a good teacher, but she's not Mom.

 

Has anyone doubled up like that (#1) or had an older child teach a younger child with an ulterior motive?  How did it go?

 

Usually #2 works better if you first teach it to your oldest and then have her reteach--so you may run into the same obstacle that you have now. But if you could teach it first, I've seen that work very well in some families.

 

My solution (because my kids really needed the one on one spelling instruction!) was to make some other things more independent to free up my time. 

[NASDAQ]

Drop AAS and use Apples and Pears instead. 

 

AAS did not work for my truly terrible speller. I don't think it does for kids who just have no natural ability at all in that area.

 

ETA: Spalding would have presented the same issues for dd as AAS does -- high investment for me (read book, learn system, manage cards and a separate notebook) and she could not internalise and apply the rules. She knew them but didn't use them.

 

A&P does take at least ten minutes a day, but I can almost entirely check out of the process; I just read it to her and she gets nearly 100% of the words right. No @#(%*% cards or tiles or any of that stuff.

[PeterPan]

Ok, as the parent of a girl who also struggled with spelling, I'm trying to decide if I'm offering you consolation or a bit of bootcamp tough love or what.  I'm split.  For us *dictation* was actually really awesome.  I don't think rules necessary result in a good speller.   They help someone slow down and notice the word, but eventually their visual memory has to kick in.

 

I also don't understand the logic of this that spelling, her weakest thing, has to get shoved to the end of the day.  At some point you have to decide if you care about this and prioritize.  I also agree AAS is a butt slow way to get anything done.  Ellie suggested WRTR and at first I thought that was odd, but in reality when you put an older dc in a program like SWR or AAS they *tend* to jump multiple grade levels in a year.  It would bring everything together with more complex words more quickly and get more synthesis.

 

Some people would say it was cruel, but we spent a LOT of time on spelling through about 7th with my dd.  I'm talking like 45 minutes a day.  At one point we did 3-4 programs at a time.  Like we were doing a workbook AND the calvert computer spelling AND SWR and dictation (3/4 of a page written daily).  Seriously.  

 

Btw, it turned out my dd had vision problems with convergence etc. and the visual memory of a 2 yo, which was the real reason her spelling was so hard.  We did VT then went back through all the levels of AAS, so I've used that too.  She's now an adequate speller, and so we stopped working on it.  It would be interesting to know if there's a reason behind your dd's low scores.  If there's no disability, dyslexia, physical problem or anything, then any spelling program would have worked (R&S, BJU, ANYTHING).

[NASDAQ]

We actually made spelling the top priority for awhile and it really helped. Could you do that for a few months in the summer, while you're not using the regular curriculum? Spelling doesn't take that long. Can you make it the very first thing you do in the day?

 

I totally get that AAS is hard to get done. Lots of little pieces + lots of little people = misery for everyone. But it actually turned out that a lot of the problem I was having getting AAS done was that what we were doing was too hard for her. She wasn't getting it and it turned into torture. The only way to make it work would have been to do more spelling, not less.

[Ramie]

I also don't understand the logic of this that spelling, her weakest thing, has to get shoved to the end of the day.  At some point you have to decide if you care about this and prioritize. 

I'm ok with the tough love.  I agree with you.  And yet, the spirit is willing...  Spelling goes at the top of our list each day, but then I wake up exhausted and the desk is a mess, and I can't clean it without stopping school altogether, and another obligation pops up before noon, and before you know it dd is working on her other work in the other room and when I finally have a clean desk and a spare second I've forgotten that I need to do spelling.  I know that ultimately, these are excuses and this is my fault, but I've known that for a long time, and I continue to fail to pull it all together.  If there was no chance that anything else but AAS would work for her, then I would do what it took - but it might include quitting outside activities and completely reworking all 4 of my kids' curriculum to give me more free time.  And knowing that next year, I'll be having to do spelling with 3 out of my 4 kids (this year only 2 of them needed it), I am trying to face the music that I am not a good bet to succeed at this.  Thankfully, I think there are probably other options, and because my dd is old enough, and pretty responsible, and is now becoming more motivated to spell better, I am hoping that giving her daily independent spelling work will make a big difference, even if it isn't the very perfect program.

 

 

Some people would say it was cruel, but we spent a LOT of time on spelling through about 7th with my dd.  I'm talking like 45 minutes a day.  At one point we did 3-4 programs at a time.  Like we were doing a workbook AND the calvert computer spelling AND SWR and dictation (3/4 of a page written daily).  Seriously.  

 

Ok, this is interesting.  You are the first person (I've asked elsewhere also) to have done multiple programs.  I am worried about two different programs causing confusion.  Did it cause confusion for your dd?  I know you are saying that the root of the problem was vision, but aside from that, do you think the intensive approach was helpful?

 

 

Btw, it turned out my dd had vision problems with convergence etc. and the visual memory of a 2 yo, which was the real reason her spelling was so hard.  We did VT then went back through all the levels of AAS, so I've used that too.  She's now an adequate speller, and so we stopped working on it.  It would be interesting to know if there's a reason behind your dd's low scores.  If there's no disability, dyslexia, physical problem or anything, then any spelling program would have worked (R&S, BJU, ANYTHING).

 

Dd has seen a developmental optometrist, and we are told she tracks terribly, and needs vision therapy.  So we are working on that as well.  But her reading ability tests at somewhere between average and well above average (depending on the test), so I don't know if I can blame the tracking for the level of difficulty with spelling.

 

Thanks all of you for all of the input - I am taking it all in...

[PeterPan]

Sorry, I'm b&w.  If the doc said she needs VT, she needs it.  That means her brain is putting energy into resolving blurry images that it SHOULD be putting into learning.  So solve the functional vision problem, work on visual processing if it's also a problem, and then see where you're at.

 

Ok, I'll throw this out, sorta the spaghetti on the wall thing, but have you ever thought ADHD for either of you?  You're sorta disorganized...   :lol:   (Hopefully you can laugh at that!)  Here's a terrific book that might help you http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1592335128/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0MR7YDRJZDB1X68MX29K&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=1688200382&pf_rd_i=507846  There's also Smart But Scattered and books like That Crumpled Paper Was My Homework.  The things holding you back are things you can solve.  You're just overwhelmed and not able to stop and think through them.  Separate YOUR work area and where you do school.  That way you always have a spot for school. 

 

4 kids and outside activities?  Yeah, that could be your answer, lol.  But, you know, live your life.  If that's what makes your lives good, do it!  Just make some structure so the things that are important to you get done.

 

Contradictions between programs??  I'm not changing LANGUAGES on her, mercy.  The programs and approaches were complementary and let her see things in a fresh way.  Dictation let us apply our SWR rules and see things in context.  The computer/Calvert spelling rebuilt her confidence and made her feel like a rock star.  The printed workbook was the least useful, but it was good at making things explicit.  Variety is GOOD!  Kids often need to see things in a variety of ways.  My dd also needs CONTEXT for things to stick.  Dictation was potent, potent, potent for her.  Unfortunately, with 4 kids, that would require a lot of time each day.  I feel your pain!  Prioritize.

 

Make a clear spot.  Figure out 1 or 2 things that are holding you back and fix them.  You can't fix EVERYTHING, but you could fix ONE thing, kwim?  

[NASDAQ]

Continuing to do AAS along with A&P with my daughter would not have been confusing. It would have been less than useful, though, because unless you're moving reasonably fast through AAS then I've found there's a lot of claw-back. Also AAS was making me hate life, so it had to go.

 

Where is she in AAS? Is she completing what you've done so far with a high degree of accuracy, or was she struggling? If she's having vision issues that you investigated, does she read well and it's just spelling?

 

I think the problem is that if your daughter is naturally a very poor speller, in general, the best programs for addressing that do require you to be involved. I think it has to do with the instant feedback that you can provide as you watch her complete the work.

 

I get the four kids thing (I really, really get the four kids thing). Yesterday I looked at something I need to get done and mentally decided it could wait until my youngest was school aged. You know, the one who isn't due until fall :) To me, this would be worth rearranging if there truly is a serious spelling issue. Adults don't need to be perfect spellers, but if she's not good enough for spell check to catch what she's doing, that would be worth rearranging almost everything to me, because it's core academics. Especially if its tied to a vision/reading issue.

[Ramie]

Sorry, I'm b&w.  If the doc said she needs VT, she needs it.  That means her brain is putting energy into resolving blurry images that it SHOULD be putting into learning.  So solve the functional vision problem, work on visual processing if it's also a problem, and then see where you're at.

She'll be getting the VT.  It's just a matter of money and timing.  

 

 

Ok, I'll throw this out, sorta the spaghetti on the wall thing, but have you ever thought ADHD for either of you?  You're sorta disorganized...   :lol:   (Hopefully you can laugh at that!)  

lol, yes I laughed.  You could be right, although I don't really fit the profile...the book looks interesting, thanks for the suggestion.

 

 

Contradictions between programs??  I'm not changing LANGUAGES on her, mercy.  The programs and approaches were complementary and let her see things in a fresh way.  Dictation let us apply our SWR rules and see things in context.  The computer/Calvert spelling rebuilt her confidence and made her feel like a rock star.  The printed workbook was the least useful, but it was good at making things explicit.  Variety is GOOD! 

I'm glad to hear that.  I feel that way about variety too, but there have been times where too much variety caused my kids to lose focus (not sure when, but...) and I want to be sure that doesn't happen.