How are children being forgotten in hot cars?

[Barb_ 21,620]

Which goes without saying is ridiculous. So in 3 years he goes from "can't leave out of eyesight in a store" to adult? Ridiculous. And I thought I was overprotective.

It is ridiculous! At that point I couldn't hold it in any longer. I blurted, but he's going to be driving age in a year! Don't you think there is some merit in allowing children to gradually grow into their adultood?" He disagreed and told me it was more important to keep kids safe. He was so sure he was right. How do you reason with that? It's like the quote in the article linked way upthread. Whether a parent who accidentally leaves a child in a hot car is charged with manslaughter, second degree murder, or nothing at all is almost always the decision of a single individual. You are totally at the mercy of the temperament and background of that one person. One of the men quoted who charged one of the parents with murder did so because he insists there is no way he would ever do that. Which reflects my original point. The individual becomes the ultimate authority of what is safe or understandable and what is criminal neglect.

[eternalsummer 8,998]

The way I see it is that risks that society has, as as whole, deemed wholly unacceptable are illegal.

 

There are many many things that are risky, but the discretion of  comparative risk vs reward is left to the parent - for instance, taking your kids in a car at all, or formula feeding, or going to the doctor more or less often for well-child checkups, etc.  There are a whole host of things I would never personally do that society as a whole has not largely decided are so dangerous and so little worth the risk as to make illegal, so when I see or hear of other parents doing these things, I don't call the cops or CPS or whatever, because I don't want someone telling me I have to take the kids to the dentist twice a year or never let them ride a bike or jump on a trampoline.

[Caroline 12,637]

I understand that. And I sympathized with you in your thread at the time. And I don't think what happened was ok. But in the end, CPS didn't come take your kids, because they don't take kids on a whim. It takes a lot for CPS to take kids away. And that's what we were talking about. Not being scared by the police, but actually taking the kids away. And, quite frankly, I do think the policeman overstepped in your case, by a lot.

 

SKL keeps saying don't call 911 if there is a kid in a hot car because the police will take the kid away. Don't call the police if people are endangering their kid, because the police will take the kid away. It doesn't happen like that. It truly doesn't happen that the police show up and take a kid away because you left him in the car for 5 minutes.

 

No. That doesn't invalidate my point. He scared my children, the younger one in particular. He threatened me. He said if they had been a year or two younger he would have. My point is that if someone slightly more nutso showed up or if I had tried to give them a little independence a year earlier it could easily have happened. You said you didn't believe cops took children away from parents for being briefly left alone. I was sharing an incident that contradicts that. He told me has done it and would do it again.

 

Cops (and ER folks and social workers for that matter)see the worst of the worst. Over time their perception can become skewed until they believe that parents in general are stupid and children must be protected from them. It's human nature. But that causes them to overstep and inflict considerable more harm than they were trying to prevent.

[SKL 51,959]

Were your children taken away when the woman called 911 on you for leaving your kids in the car alone at fedex? Did the policeman even say to you, "I can take your kids away?" Have you personally met someone who had their kids removed due to lack of car seat or running into a store for five minutes?

 

 

 

No.  For one, my kids were school-aged.  Two, I drove away before the officer had a chance to decide if he wanted to do anything about my non-crime.  Three, until recently there weren't so many people declaring that they would / everyone should call the cops every time they see anyone leave any kid in any car for any amount of time.  It's getting crazier and crazier.

 

I do know one person who has a CPS file because she ran in to pay for something at the gas station mini mart, while her two young daughters were secured in their car seats.  That was years ago.  Who knows what would happen to her today.

 

I'm an older mom, so I don't personally know a lot of people with young kids today.

[SKL 51,959]

But did he? Did he take your kids away?

 

Don't you think it's a problem if a family is threatened with that, even if it doesn't happen?  How would you like to have to wonder for months whether or not your kids are going to be taken away to live with strangers?  How would you like having to watch every step you make because Big Brother is Watching You?

[unsinkable 23,866]

SKL could say the chemical formula of water is H2O and people would crucify her.

 

It gets old.

[Caroline 12,637]

That isn't what is happening.

 

SKL could say the chemical formula of water is H2O and people would crucify her.

 

It gets old.

[maize 67,514]

SKL could say the chemical formula of water is H2O and people would crucify her.

 

It gets old.

Well now, what evidence does she have? Can she prove that H2O is the formula for water? I want to see her lab notes, better yet I really don't think I cam trust such an assertion unless she gets it published in a peer reviewed journal. Can't just believe anything someone posts on the internet, you know

:D

[SKL 51,959]

SKL keeps saying don't call 911 if there is a kid in a hot car because the police will take the kid away. Don't call the police if people are endangering their kid, because the police will take the kid away. It doesn't happen like that. It truly doesn't happen that the police show up and take a kid away because you left him in the car for 5 minutes.

 

 

No, I said don't call 911 unless you believe it's a real emergency.  If you see a kid in a car, look around, use your brains, check with the parents if possible, otherwise wait a couple minutes and see if there is a real danger to the child vs. just a parenting choice you would not make.

 

NO CHILD HAS EVER BEEN PHYSICALLY INJURED BECAUSE OF BEING IN A CAR FOR 5 MINUTES.  No child ever.  If it has ever happened, find me the proof.  If it has never caused injury IT IS SAFE and it is as good a parenting choice as any other.  But we know there are a series of cases of parents being prosecuted and in danger of losing their kids over doing this.  They are in the news more and more often.

 

So you say, that as far as you know, kids won't be taken for being in a car 5 minutes.  I'm not sure.  But if it's really just 5 minutes, the police never should have been called in the first place.  The parents and kids shouldn't have been scared.  The parents should not have to be investigated.  A CPS file should not be opened.  They should not have to hire a lawyer, appear in court, have to plead guilty to a "lesser charge," have a criminal record, pay fines, report to probation officers, etc.

 

All I'm asking is that people think about the gravity of the consequences before they call 911.  Hopefully most of us would do that, but many declare that they would "not hesitate" to call 911 if they saw a kid alone in a car, without any additional considerations.  I am saying everyone should hesitate because their call could hurt the child more than it helps.  But if, after hesitating, you determine there is real danger, then call.

[idnib 15,733]

No, I said don't call 911 unless you believe it's a real emergency.  If you see a kid in a car, look around, use your brains, check with the parents if possible, otherwise wait a couple minutes and see if there is a real danger to the child vs. just a parenting choice you would not make.

 

But that would require people to use their critical thinking skills and take responsibility for their decisions. Better to have a zero-tolerance policy, akin to suspending kids from school for banana guns. Why think and take responsibility when you can just act and it becomes someone else's problem, while you go home satisfied you did something?

 

Yes, I'm being sarcastic.  :)

[Lolly 4,667]

A couple people have mentioned that babies used to ride in the front seat and people knew they were there so they didn't get forgotten in the car.

 

I was born in 1970. I am the daughter of a pediatric ER nurse. I had a car seat from birth until 3, when I was moved into a booster seat. I never rode in the front seat until I was 12. So I know I had an unusual upbringing that way. I have never ridden in a car without a seatbelt, ever.

 

Here is my question...did more babies die in car accidents from being in the front seat than are dying from being left in a hot car? Which is statistically more dangerous?

 

Cannot find it, but I read an article a year or two...or three...ago which had the numbers that showed it to be statistically more dangerous for the child to be in the back seat. I was absolutely shocked. Wish I could find it.

[shawthorne44 6,311]

I am still processing the idea of imagining myself as a kid 8-11, and hearing the police say that they were thinking of handcuffing my mother, arresting her and putting my brother and I in foster care.  And, have it be for a completely totally innocent thing I did.  Can you imagine ever having any faith at all in the police or government authority figures?  I could totally see myself NOT calling out to the police even if I got into a pickle because I would assume that they would make it worse.  

 

[gardenmom5 29,902]

Well now, what evidence does she have? Can she prove that H2O is the formula for water? I want to see her lab notes, better yet I really don't think I cam trust such an assertion unless she gets it published in a peer reviewed journal. Can't just believe anything someone posts on the internet, you know

:D

 

ban dihydrogen monoxide!  ;)

[maize 67,514]

ban dihydrogen monoxide! ;)

Thousands of people die from it every year, many of them children. And our tax dollars are actually paying for it's distribution throughout the country. We need a grassroots campaign...

[gardenmom5 29,902]

I am still processing the idea of imagining myself as a kid 8-11, and hearing the police say that they were thinking of handcuffing my mother, arresting her and putting my brother and I in foster care.  And, have it be for a completely totally innocent thing I did.  Can you imagine ever having any faith at all in the police or government authority figures?  I could totally see myself NOT calling out to the police even if I got into a pickle because I would assume that they would make it worse.  

 

I'm trying to understand - you're imagining what it would be like to have the police arrest your mother when you are the child and thinking you as the child did something wrong so you don't trust the police?

 

I was five when I was with my mother when she was arrested for shoplifting.  I was confused and overwhelmed - and the adults kept giving me paper and crayons (but were all very kind) while my mother was being "interviewed".  I don't remember how i got home that night, my dad probably picked me up.  I didn't lose any belief the police would help me.

 

 

 . . .  now the female cop who responsded to my 911 call when I heard someone outside my house a month after someone entered and assaulted me . . . .  (the men were all nice, that woman has no business being a cop.)

[maize 67,514]

I'm trying to understand - you're imagining what it would be like to have the police arrest your mother when you are the child and thinking you as the child did something wrong so you don't trust the police?

 

I was five when I was with my mother when she was arrested for shoplifting. I was confused and overwhelmed - and the adults kept giving me paper and crayons (but were all very kind) while my mother was being "interviewed". I don't remember how i got home that night, my dad probably picked me up. I didn't lose any belief the police would help me.

 

 

. . . now the female cop who responsded to my 911 call when I heard someone outside my house a month after someone entered and assaulted me . . . . (the men were all nice, that woman has no business being a cop.)

She's referring to the post upthread where a cop confronted and threatened a mother who left her 11 and almost 8 year old children in a bookstore for half an hour to spend their allowance money.

[KungFuPanda 28,513]

and I remember when seatbelts were an AD-ON. I grew up with a 1967 car that didn't come with seat-belts.

 

Wait! You got to ride IN the car? I remember going places in the back of a pick-up truck ALL the time. My kids have no idea.

[gardenmom5 29,902]

Wait! You got to ride IN the car? I remember going places in the back of a pick-up truck ALL the time. My kids have no idea.

 

I rode in the back of pick-up.  I loved to ride behind the back seat of my dad' bug.  or on the engine cover/cargo area of the vwbus we had.  I even road in the boat while it was being towed on a trailer . . .

 

 

eta: and I probably even ran with scissors . . . .

[milovany 7,323]

Wait! You got to ride IN the car? I remember going places in the back of a pick-up truck ALL the time. My kids have no idea.

 

My dad had one of these (only his was yellow):

 

 

A Volkswagen Thing. See that ledge up behind the back seat?  That's where we sat!  It was my dad's mayor car, LOL.  I can still see him/us campaigning in it -- with us in the back ledge holding signs.  The 1970s were a different day. 

[8circles 12,987]

I say I can't imagine it but I have no judgment for those who have done it.  I have major anxiety/fear about this kind of thing from my upbringing so I really just can't imagine it.  That doesn't mean I'll never do it either.

[eternalsummer 8,998]

I rode in the back of a pickup, on a highway, in 1990.

 

I still have to reiterate to my mom that it is not okay for the kids to sit in the trunk/back of the hatchback on the way home from swimming lessons.

[gardenmom5 29,902]

My dad had one of these (only his was yellow):

 

 

A Volkswagen Thing. See that ledge up behind the back seat?  That's where we sat!  It was my dad's mayor car, LOL.  I can still see him/us campaigning in it -- with us in the back ledge holding signs.  The 1970s were a different day. 

 

vw had some fun cars.  when I was last looking for a car, I looked at the vws on the local craigslist.  there was a dune buggy . . . . oh, memories . . . .

 

makes me want to go down to the oregon coast . . . .

 

[LMV 1,336]

I read this article:  http://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/unimaginable-loss-13-children-died-hot-cars-year-n136871

 

I'm sitting here thinking how horrific the pain and guilt must be for these parents whose actions caused their kids' deaths.

 

But...I can't understand how a parent could forget their child in the backseat of the car. Even if they're sleeping, how can a parent not remember that their child is with them? How can you go to work having forgotten that you didn't drop your child off at daycare? I'm not judging them, because Lord knows the searing pain they must feel.

I just can't wrap my mind around the concept that a parent loads their kid up in the car, drives to their destination, and gets out without the child.

 

How frequently does this happen, minus the devastating cases cited in the article?

 

People are human and therefore not infallible. I've been involved in a few car entrapments, from a resuscitation standpoint as an ED physician, and while I can think of one case where the involved adult was negligent (and under the influence of illegal substances when the incident occurred) the others were people who were distracted and made a tragic mistake.  Honestly, each time I have walked out of the ED after one of these I have said a prayer in the car before going home to my own kids.  

[LMV 1,336]

Just saying ... maybe this is just another reason to never leave your children in the car alone.  If you do this on a regular basis, I think it would be easier to forget they were in there.  If you never leave your child/ren in the car alone, you are more likely to not forget they are there.  I never left my daughter in the car and at no point did I forget where she was.

 

I never leave my children in the car alone until they have their own license to drive the car but I'm not naive or arrogant enough to believe that this could never happen to me, DH, or one of our children.  I do make it a point to try to be focused and present when with our kids but the reality is that we all have our less than perfect moments.  

[momto10blessings 2,440]

No, I said don't call 911 unless you believe it's a real emergency.

Yep

[unsinkable 23,866]

"Sources" are telling news outlets that Father knew his toddler was in the car

 

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/source-cobb-father-new-child-was-left-hot-car/ngRn6/?NCclS1?__federated=1

 

Sources tell Channel 2 Action News there is evidence that a Cobb County father knew his son was left in the back of his car. The child died after several hours in the hot vehicle.

Late Tuesday afternoon, investigators and prosecutors gathered at the Cobb County Police Department to go over some of the evidence in the murder case.

Justin Ross Harris, 33, told police he left for work before 9 a.m.on June 19.

Seven hours later, when he was heading home, Harris claims he realized his 22-month-old son, Cooper, had been left in the car.

Channel 2's Jodie Fleischer broke new developments in the case on Twitter just after 5 p.m. Tuesday.

"Sources tell me there is evidence Cobb father Justin Ross Harris knew his son was left in the hot car," she wrote in a Tweet.

[zoobie 26,676]

I saw that headline. It makes me sick to my stomach. What the hell?

[Cinder 4,992]

:crying: :crying: :crying:

[Tangerine 3,332]

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2014/06/25/Justin_Harris_14w5669-2.pdf

 

It seems this particular father's story is falling apart.

 

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/national/source-cobb-father-new-child-was-left-hot-car/ngR5y/?icmp=cmgcontent_internallink_relatedcontent_2014_partners1

 

Nevermind!  I see that has been posted.

[fairfarmhand 20,697]

This is why when my dh is supposed to do something for the kids outside of his normal routine, I call/text him to make sure it happened.

 

"Are you still able to pick up the kids from x activity?"

 

"Did you pick dd up?"

 

Yes, he's an adult who "ought" to be able to manage these things on his own, but if it's out of the normal routine, there's a good chance it will be forgotten.

 

I think sometimes we moms and dads bristle at the suggestion that we'd forget our own kids, but reality is that it happens to all of us.

 

Perhaps if parents were more honest about their tendency to "zone out" in the routine of life (even if it's about their kids, the most important thing they have), they might be more apt to give themselves reminders. Like an alarm on your cell phone or a text from the other parent ensuring that the assigned task was completed.

[unsinkable 23,866]

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2014/06/25/Justin_Harris_14w5669-2.pdf

 

It seems this particular father's story is falling apart.

 

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/national/source-cobb-father-new-child-was-left-hot-car/ngR5y/?icmp=cmgcontent_internallink_relatedcontent_2014_partners1

 

Nevermind!  I see that has been posted.

 

the warrant you linked is new. 

 

It looks like Father and son went to breakfast and Father put the baby back in his carseat, then drove to work. The baby wasn't dropped off at daycare. 

 

But then the father went out to the car at lunch time. It seems like the police think it was possible that the father either saw the baby OR should have seen the baby then.

 

I'm not sure what happened. 

[momto10blessings 2,440]

the warrant you linked is new.

 

It looks like Father and son went to breakfast and Father put the baby back in his carseat, then drove to work. The baby wasn't dropped off at daycare.

 

But then the father went out to the car at lunch time. It seems like the police think it was possible that the father either saw the baby OR should have seen the baby then.

 

I'm not sure what happened.

It says he opened his driver's side door and placed something in the car. Baby was in a rear facing car seat, so it's definitely possible he didn't see the baby. At least let's hope so.

[Meriwether 1,832]

I did something a few months ago that could have killed Dd4. It was a stupid, unintentional mistake. I had never done it before and don't see myself ever doing it again. Dd4 has been a joy and delight since birth, a dearly beloved part of our family. If something had happened to her, my sorrow and guilt would have had me contemplating suicide. Good, loving parents can do something dumb with catastrophic results.

[poppy 20,381]

No, I said don't call 911 unless you believe it's a real emergency. If you see a kid in a car, look around, use your brains, check with the parents if possible, otherwise wait a couple minutes and see if there is a real danger to the child vs. just a parenting choice you would not make.

 

NO CHILD HAS EVER BEEN PHYSICALLY INJURED BECAUSE OF BEING IN A CAR FOR 5 MINUTES. No child ever. If it has ever happened, find me the proof. If it has never caused injury IT IS SAFE and it is as good a parenting choice as any other. But we know there are a series of cases of parents being prosecuted and in danger of losing their kids over doing this. They are in the news more and more often.

 

So you say, that as far as you know, kids won't be taken for being in a car 5 minutes. I'm not sure. But if it's really just 5 minutes, the police never should have been called in the first place. The parents and kids shouldn't have been scared. The parents should not have to be investigated. A CPS file should not be opened. They should not have to hire a lawyer, appear in court, have to plead guilty to a "lesser charge," have a criminal record, pay fines, report to probation officers, etc.

 

All I'm asking is that people think about the gravity of the consequences before they call 911. Hopefully most of us would do that, but many declare that they would "not hesitate" to call 911 if they saw a kid alone in a car, without any additional considerations. I am saying everyone should hesitate because their call could hurt the child more than it helps. But if, after hesitating, you determine there is real danger, then call.

I agree that 5 minutes in a car is not dangerous. But if you are in a hot parking lot and see a sleeping baby in back, how are you supposed to know if that kid has been there 3 minutes or has been there 40 minutes? A comatose baby can look like a sleeping baby. Err on the side of common sense.... which means protecting the parents is not the priority.

[wendyroo 6,240]

I agree that 5 minutes in a car is not dangerous. But if you are in a hot parking lot and see a sleeping baby in back, how are you supposed to know if that kid has been there 3 minutes or has been there 40 minutes? A comatose baby can look like a sleeping baby. Err on the side of common sense.... which means protecting the parents is not the priority.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think anyone is advocating walking away if you see a baby sleeping in a hot parking lot.

 

The case we were discussing upthread was about a mom leaving a four year old for 4-5 minutes in a temperate parking lot.  If I was walking through a Target parking lot on a 50 degree day and happened to notice a preschooler sitting in the back seat of a car happily preoccupied on a iPad, I would not consider that child in immediate danger even if he had been there for 40 minutes already.

 

If I choose to monitor the situation for a bit before calling 911, I am not doing so to protect the parent, but rather to protect the child.  If the child is not in immediate danger, then it seems to me that it would do him more harm than good to sic CPS on his parents (especially if, as in the previously mentioned case, the child had actually only been there for a couple minutes).  I believe that the vast majority of parents are good people who can make good decisions for their children (even if those decisions don't look exactly like mine), and in the vast majority of cases governmental interference negatively impacts the child, parent and family.

 

Wendy

[calihil 192]

I did it once. I went to the grocery store with the then-baby and an older child. I was having the older one write a grocery list and I was focused on that. The baby never made a peep all the way to the store. We pulled in to the spot, still talking, got out, locked the doors and went into the store. We hadn't been inside for more than a few seconds when my daughter said, "Wait! didn't we bring Mia?" My heart lept into my throat when I realized what I'd done.

 

Taking the baby to the store was definitely outside my usual routine. My oldest was a teen and I had five children at home. Usually going to the store was a chance for one on one attention with a rotating cast if characters. She was a thumb sucker, so very quiet, and our van seats completely blocked the back seat.

 

I also drove an hour once before I realized I neglected to buckle the car seat. Sometimes I wonder how I've managed to keep seven children alive and undamaged.

 

Something similar happened to me. Several years ago, I would go grocery shopping on the weekends when my husband could watch my then-baby. One day, though, she was being really calm and he was busy so I brought her with me. She was rearfaced, very quiet at the time, and then I pulled into the parking lot, got out of my car, and started walking to the door of the grocery store. Bam. It hit me, oh my goodness, I brought the baby with me! And I ran back to the car. It still makes me sick to think about what could have happened if I hadnt remembered as it takes me a good hour to grocery shop and it was summer time. :(

 

Therefore by the grace of God go I.

[poppy 20,381]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think anyone is advocating walking away if you see a baby sleeping in a hot parking lot.

 

The case we were discussing upthread was about a mom leaving a four year old for 4-5 minutes in a temperate parking lot.  If I was walking through a Target parking lot on a 50 degree day and happened to notice a preschooler sitting in the back seat of a car happily preoccupied on a iPad, I would not consider that child in immediate danger even if he had been there for 40 minutes already.

 

If I choose to monitor the situation for a bit before calling 911, I am not doing so to protect the parent, but rather to protect the child.  If the child is not in immediate danger, then it seems to me that it would do him more harm than good to sic CPS on his parents (especially if, as in the previously mentioned case, the child had actually only been there for a couple minutes).  I believe that the vast majority of parents are good people who can make good decisions for their children (even if those decisions don't look exactly like mine), and in the vast majority of cases governmental interference negatively impacts the child, parent and family.

 

Wendy

 

Did you see the post I was responding to? 

 

So you say, that as far as you know, kids won't be taken for being in a car 5 minutes. I'm not sure. But if it's really just 5 minutes, the police never should have been called in the first place. The parents and kids shouldn't have been scared. The parents should not have to be investigated. A CPS file should not be opened. They should not have to hire a lawyer, appear in court, have to plead guilty to a "lesser charge," have a criminal record, pay fines, report to probation officers, etc.

 

If 30+ children die in hot cars a year, odds are good at least one was seen by someone who assumed parents would be right back.

 

Not sure if you're ever seen this experiment: http://blogs.babycenter.com/mom_stories/why-didn%E2%80%99t-people-help-the-baby-left-behind-in-a-hot-car/?scid=preg_2_20120705:2&pe=MlVCTnRjcnwyMDEyMDcwNQ.. Most people just walked by a crying  baby alone in a backseat on a hot day.  I don't think the main risk in this scenario is CPS involvement, I think the main risk is dead children.

 

Having said that, I'm someone who will leave my kids in a car for a few minutes, windows cracked, on a temperate day (while the car is in view).  But if no parent is in sight, and no parent responds to me looking into their car and seeing a sleeping child, I will err on the side of overly cautious every time.

[Danestress 5,157]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think anyone is advocating walking away if you see a baby sleeping in a hot parking lot.

 

...

 

If I choose to monitor the situation for a bit before calling 911, I am not doing so to protect the parent, but rather to protect the child.

 

I agree - and that is what I would do. But it does seem irritating that someone would find it too hard to unload the child or feel like they are in too big of a hurry, but no matter how busy I am, I would feel like I had to wait to make the the kid was ok. That isn't the kid's problem though.

[KidsHappen 1,138]

On interstate 65 a couple days ago the electronic highway alert signs actually had a message that said something like "Where's Baby? Check your backseat". I think it was the first in our stretch of 90+ degree days.

 

I remember seeing that and at the time I had my grandson with me. Luckily, he is old enough to get out of both his car seat and the car. Of course, the parking lot scares the heck out of me now but we have a ratio of ten adults to his one so he usually has several people watching over him at one time.

[MyThreeSons 2,257]

I'm fairly certain all states have codes and regulations on what constitutes neglect and child endangerment, which is a crime in my state. 

 

Actually, much of this is very subjective. It's not as black and white as many think.

[Cinder 4,992]

The latest, for those keeping up with the recent Atlanta case.

[katilac 16,963]

Please don't think it's okay to leave kids in the car just because the weather is temperate! I would consider temps in the 70s to be quite mild, but cars can reach killing temperatures even when it is in the 60s. Heatstroke can occur in temps as low as 57 degrees. 

 

source: http://www.safercar.gov/parents/heatstroke.htm

 

 

 

 

 

[Impish 3,212]

Wolf is not allowed to take one of the baby Minions out alone.

 

Yes, NOT ALLOWED.

 

Reason being, normally when we go out, it's either he and I, all of us, or he's got one of the older kids w/him.

 

Rarely, it's us and one of the little ones.

 

I have watched him walk away from the truck, completely forgetting that we've got a baby in tow, and called him back. It's happened twice.

 

It's so out of his routine, and the babies fall asleep, and are quiet, *and* he doesn't see them in their seat in the rear view, that he forgets they're along.

 

So, either I'm along, or babies don't go.

[Where's Toto? 12,206]

How do you take your child out for breakfast and then deliberately leave them to die?  :crying:

[Joker 11,939]

The Atlanta case sure seems like it was deliberate. It wasn't out of the dad's routine since all the articles say his son attended an on site daycare at dad's place of employment. When you add in that they stopped for breakfast less than a mile from work, it just doesn't sound that plausible that he then also forget to do what he normally does and take his son inside. It would take a very sick person to do that deliberately though. I just can't wrap my head around the idea of it.

[Word Nerd 17,145]

It could be just a coincidence that both the mother and father had previously searched for information about how long it takes for a child to die in a hot car, but... I don't even want to think about it.

[December 506]

It is not true that all the articles say the daycare was on-site.  The following says it was located a couple miles away at the Home Depot office and the dad worked at a satellite office: http://www.ajc.com/news/news/breaking-news/timeline-of-a-cobb-county-toddlers-death/ngSSk/

 

I would tend to believe that because not only does it make a lot more sense, but it is a local source so I think they'd be more likely to get these details right while national news like CNN just hear daycare at Home Depot corporate office, know that dad worked for Home Depot and assume it has to be the same location.

[Joker 11,939]

It is not true that all the articles say the daycare was on-site.  The following says it was located a couple miles away at the Home Depot office and the dad worked at a satellite office: http://www.ajc.com/news/news/breaking-news/timeline-of-a-cobb-county-toddlers-death/ngSSk/

 

I would tend to believe that because not only does it make a lot more sense, but it is a local source so I think they'd be more likely to get these details right while national news like CNN just hear daycare at Home Depot corporate office, know that dad worked for Home Depot and assume it has to be the same location.

 

Okay. I really do wish all the news sources would get that bit of information right.

 

That still doesn't explain how one stops for breakfast and then drives only a mile and forgets their son. It also doesn't explain going back to your car at lunch and not noticing your child nor does it explain why both parents had recently searched about death in hot cars. The dad stated it was because he was worried it could happen to them which makes it even stranger that he could drive less than one mile after putting his son in his car and forget him in the heat.

[Guest submarines]

The Atlanta case sure seems like it was deliberate. It wasn't out of the dad's routine since all the articles say his son attended an on site daycare at dad's place of employment. When you add in that they stopped for breakfast less than a mile from work, it just doesn't sound that plausible that he then also forget to do what he normally does and take his son inside. It would take a very sick person to do that deliberately though. I just can't wrap my head around the idea of it.

 

If stopping for breakfast wasn't usual for the father it actually makes more sense that he'd forget, because it would be a change in routine and enough to throw one off.

 

If he "chore" was to drop the child off and he was used to that, then stopping for breakfast could easily be interpreted by the brain as "done something with the child.", i.e. "chore done."

[Joker 11,939]

Here's more about the Atlanta case.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/03/justice/georgia-hot-car-toddler-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t1