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How are children being forgotten in hot cars?


GinaPagnato
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4 years old is way too young to leave in a car alone. I'm not going as far to call her a bad mother, but she should not have done that, and I probably wouldn't hesitate to call the police as well. At minimum, I would have waited near the car to make sure the child remained safe, and then talked to her when she returned. That was a bad decision on her part. 

 

 

Would you call the police even if it were in a state where it isn't illegal (the majority of them) to leave your child in the car? I don't know about where you're from, but where I'm from, we call the police when there's a crime being committed. 

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Really? I wouldn't wait until an emergency occurred before calling. Like you said, I wouldn't leave the situation, but I wouldn't wait either. If I felt a child were being neglected/safety at risk, I wouldn't hesitate. I've called 911 (non-emergency number actually, but it goes to the same dispatchers) on many occasions to report children not being buckled in, or for an infant sitting on the lap of someone in the front seat. They likely won't get caught, but I can't witness something like that without trying to intervene for the child's sake. If a child's life is in danger, I'm not going to worry about whether they are taken away or not; that's something the parents need to think about before making the decision to leave their child alone or not buckle them in. 

 

Well you and I have different value systems then.

 

A child's life is not automatically in danger just because they are not in a legally approved child restraint.  It is much more dangerous to take a child away from its loving parent.  I only hope that the authorities who happen to get your call have more understanding of what children need.

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Most of us probably should have grown up in institutions / foster homes, because we were pretty much all left in cars or allowed to travel without the recommended restraints at some time or other.  I guess I should be thankful there was no 911 when I was little.

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Would you call the police even if it were in a state where it isn't illegal (the majority of them) to leave your child in the car? I don't know about where you're from, but where I'm from, we call the police when there's a crime being committed. 

 

If I saw a child that being neglected, I would call. I'm fairly certain all states have codes and regulations on what constitutes neglect and child endangerment, which is a crime in my state. Do I know all of the details of the law, no, but that's why I would use my judgement. A 9 year old left in a car? No. A 4 year old? Absolutely. A child roaming around in a moving car without a seat belt or an infant on a lap? Absolutely. 

 

When I worked in ER, the police scanner was on 24/7. Checking the welfare of people occurs all the time where I live. Police encourage it and follow through on welfare checks, to the best of their ability. Doesn't a child's safety trump possible repercussions to the parent? Like I said, I use judgement. I don't call on every single unsafe thing I see. 

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Most of us probably should have grown up in institutions / foster homes, because we were pretty much all left in cars or allowed to travel without the recommended restraints at some time or other.  I guess I should be thankful there was no 911 when I was little.

 

It wasn't the norm back then to use car seats. It is now, and they are available for a very reasonable price, or for free at times. IMO, there isn't a reason not to use them, outside of unusual circumstances. Back then, there weren't automatic windows that could be accidentally bumped and strangle kids either, or locked so that they couldn't be opened. Comparing then to now, isn't really a fair argument. 

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Doesn't a child's safety trump possible repercussions to the parent?

 

There are massive repercussions to the child if you take away parenting rights.  In rare cases this is necessary, but it is never "good" for the child to be jerked around from one caregiver to another.

 

The problem with calling the police or CPS is that they may feel they have to "do something" rather than just talk to the parents about safety etc.  Like the case where a couple of first-graders were playing in the backyard and decided to disobey their parents and go for a little walk.  Someone called the police and the parents were charged with contributing to the delinquency of a child.  They are in serious danger of losing their children.  Put another way, the children are in serious danger of being ripped from their loving parents.  Over something so minor that hurt nobody.

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If I saw a child that being neglected, I would call. I'm fairly certain all states have codes and regulations on what constitutes neglect and child endangerment, which is a crime in my state. Do I know all of the details of the law, no, but that's why I would use my judgement. A 9 year old left in a car? No. A 4 year old? Absolutely. A child roaming around in a moving car without a seat belt or an infant on a lap? Absolutely. 

 

When I worked in ER, the police scanner was on 24/7. Checking the welfare of people occurs all the time where I live. Police encourage it and follow through on welfare checks, to the best of their ability. Doesn't a child's safety trump possible repercussions to the parent? Like I said, I use judgement. I don't call on every single unsafe thing I see. 

 

 

Of course. I guess I just assume that the child's parents can decide when they are or are not safe apart from my interference. I also assume that it's probably safer than being in the car with their parent driving. A lot more children die in automobile accidents than from being left in a car for a few minutes. 

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Well you and I have different value systems then.

 

A child's life is not automatically in danger just because they are not in a legally approved child restraint.  It is much more dangerous to take a child away from its loving parent.  I only hope that the authorities who happen to get your call have more understanding of what children need.

 

I've never heard of kids getting taken away for not using a legally approved child restraint. Perhaps it's happened, but where I live, it's a fine (and a good reminder to the parent to brush up on how to use them, or where to obtain them for free if needed). If an accident occurs and the child is injured or killed, I believe it crosses over to abuse/criminal side of the law. It's not really my job to sort out the legal details, but it is my job as an adult and a member of society to help children in dangerous situations when they cannot help themselves. Again, I wouldn't call for every little unsafe event. 

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It wasn't the norm back then to use car seats. It is now, and they are available for a very reasonable price, or for free at times. IMO, there isn't a reason not to use them, outside of unusual circumstances. Back then, there weren't automatic windows that could be accidentally bumped and strangle kids either, or locked so that they couldn't be opened. Comparing then to now, isn't really a fair argument. 

 

Can you tell by looking into someone els'e car whether there are "unusual circumstances," or whether they have power windows without safety features, etc.?

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I think that since we have a constitutional right to confront our accusers, people who call 911 should have to be identified to the accused, and should be subpoenaed to appear in court against the accused before any official action can be taken against the parents.

 

But maybe then people would actually act neighborly instead of calling 911.  Maybe if they really thought a child was in danger of dying, they would step forward themselves and tell the parents why they are genuinely concerned for the child's well-being.

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I think that since we have a constitutional right to confront our accusers, people who call 911 should have to be identified to the accused, and should be subpoenaed to appear in court against the accused before any official action can be taken against the parents.

 

But maybe then people would actually act neighborly instead of calling 911.  Maybe if they really thought a child was in danger of dying, they would step forward themselves and tell the parents why they are genuinely concerned for the child's well-being.

 

I would have no problem showing my face to anyone if it meant that a child's life was protected and an accident was avoided, or they thought twice about leaving a young child alone in a car. I'm not sure why all the hostility. I did say that I use best judgement. I'm not continually looking for reasons to call the police. I couldn't have it on my conscience to walk past a car with little kids unattended, and think to myself it's none of my business. 

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I would have no problem showing my face to anyone if it meant that a child's life was protected and an accident was avoided, or they thought twice about leaving a young child alone in a car. I'm not sure why all the hostility. I did say that I use best judgement. I'm not continually looking for reasons to call the police. I couldn't have it on my conscience to walk past a car with little kids unattended, and think to myself it's none of my business. 

 

I've also been in situations where I was concerned, and I waited a few minutes and the parent always appeared before the children were in any distress.  Since the children were never in any actual danger, I mind my own business once I see the parent back with the car.  The situation matters - the last time I remember, it was outside a Panera, so it was likely that the parent had just run in to grab a carry-out and was in sight of the car the entire time.  If it was an industrial parking lot where people aren't generally in & out I might call the cops if nobody returned in a few minutes, especially if the child appeared to be overheating.  But I've never come across anything like that.

 

In the case of driving without belts or on someone's lap, either you are able to speak directly to the parent yourself, or you're whizzing down the road and minding someone else's business instead of watching the road.  In that case I do not understand calling the cops.  As I believe you noted above, there could be unusual circumstances, and unless there is fast or crazy or drunk driving involved, the risk is tiny.

 

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I think that since we have a constitutional right to confront our accusers, people who call 911 should have to be identified to the accused, and should be subpoenaed to appear in court against the accused before any official action can be taken against the parents.

 

But maybe then people would actually act neighborly instead of calling 911.  Maybe if they really thought a child was in danger of dying, they would step forward themselves and tell the parents why they are genuinely concerned for the child's well-being.

 

Someone calling 911 would not be considered an "accuser" under the law.

 

And no, what you recommend when discourage people from being witnesses (not accusers.)

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It does not take 5 minutes to go in to a store, find what she needs, and check out and come back out. 

 

It is possible.  If you are parked next to the door, the store is small, the item needed is by the register, and no one is in line, it could take less than 5 minutes.  I can be in and out of our grocery with a loaf of bread in less than 5 minutes.  I personally wouldn't leave a 4 year old in a car to run into a store.   

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I've also been in situations where I was concerned, and I waited a few minutes and the parent always appeared before the children were in any distress.  Since the children were never in any actual danger, I mind my own business once I see the parent back with the car.  The situation matters - the last time I remember, it was outside a Panera, so it was likely that the parent had just run in to grab a carry-out and was in sight of the car the entire time.  If it was an industrial parking lot where people aren't generally in & out I might call the cops if nobody returned in a few minutes, especially if the child appeared to be overheating.  But I've never come across anything like that.

 

In the case of driving without belts or on someone's lap, either you are able to speak directly to the parent yourself, or you're whizzing down the road and minding someone else's business instead of watching the road.  In that case I do not understand calling the cops.  As I believe you noted above, there could be unusual circumstances, and unless there is fast or crazy or drunk driving involved, the risk is tiny.

 

 

I agree, situation matters. I don't have a black and white definition of when I would/wouldn't. In general though, I err on the side of safety of the child/children. 

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Where is it legal though?  If there is no specific law regarding this, there is always the vague "child endangerment" laws.  Having a specific law about leaving kids in cars is probably more likely to get a person off the hook (although I cannot imagine a law that would specifically say it is ok for a 4 year old).

 

The laws generally give enough guidance that there has to be at least some element of risk other than "left alone in the car."  Some of them provide age ranges, some state that the environmental conditions (heat/cold) have to be dangerous, some give specific time frames (like 10 or 15 minutes for kids under 6 or whatever).

 

There is no law saying you are allowed to leave your kids alone in their bedrooms at night.  But that doesn't mean you can be arrested for doing so.

 

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Were your children taken away when the woman called 911 on you for leaving your kids in the car alone at fedex? Did the policeman even say to you, "I can take your kids away?" Have you personally met someone who had their kids removed due to lack of car seat or running into a store for five minutes?

 

 

Given that kids can be removed from their parents' custody and the 911 caller has no control over that, I recommend not ever calling 911 unless you believe there is an actual emergency. If you just saw a parent walk away from a car and don't have good reason to believe they will be gone for over 10 minutes, do not call the police. Watch by the car for up to 10 minutes if you truly worry for the child's well-being. Changes in custody are very damaging to children; sitting in a car for 10 minutes is not.

 

ETA, if you see a parent walk away and think they might have forgotten the child in the car, run or holler after the parent. That's more dangerous as they might not have it in their mind to come back quickly.

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I can imagine someone coming along and seeing a small kid in the car and wondering and calling 911. Then the cops arrive and realize it's nothing. And everyone goes on their merry way.

 

Like the incident we are talking about in this thread. What if someone had been walking by and saw the baby in the car and just assumed the parent was away briefly and did not call? It could have made a difference if the person called. You just never know. I think most people have good intentions.

That's the point I was trying to make. SKL started a thread when someone called 911 because she left her kids in the car. The kids weren't taken away. That doesn't happen because you left your kids in the car for 5-10 minutes. The cop probably gives you a talking to, and everyone goes on their way.

 

I don't leave my kids in the car. Just not something I do.

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I would not condemn this woman as a bad mother for what she did in this situation. It takes a lot for me to think someone is a bad mother.

 

But I think she made a bad choice in this particular instance. Four is too young to leave alone for what she had to do. And she had other, safer choices that she could have chosen: leave him at home with her parents or take him in the store or simply not go to the store. Or send her mom to the store.

I tend to agree with this. I would not have felt comfortable leaving my son at age 4 while I ran in the store. I did leave him in the car at that age when running into the post office though. Huge windows, vehicle visable for the entire time, and the ability to remote start the vehicle to keep it cool. Not knowing what the set up was, it is hard to judge.

 

Best choice would have been to leave her son with his grandmother......but I am sure I make a dozen less than best choices every day!

 

I just can't condemn this mother based on the article.

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Were your children taken away when the woman called 911 on you for leaving your kids in the car alone at fedex? Did the policeman even say to you, "I can take your kids away?" Have you personally met someone who had their kids removed due to lack of car seat or running into a store for five minutes?

 

 

 

I had a cop threaten to handcuff me and haul me to jail and my kids to foster care because I left them at Barnes and Noble for 30 minutes to spend their allowance money.

 

At the time they were 11 two months shy of 9.

 

All it takes is the wrong cop taking the call.

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I had a cop threaten to handcuff me and haul me to jail and my kids to foster care because I left them at Barnes and Noble for 30 minutes to spend their allowance money.

 

At the time they were 11 two months shy of 9.

 

All it takes is the wrong cop taking the call.

But did he? Did he take your kids away?

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I had a cop threaten to handcuff me and haul me to jail and my kids to foster care because I left them at Barnes and Noble for 30 minutes to spend their allowance money.

 

At the time they were 11 two months shy of 9.

 

All it takes is the wrong cop taking the call.

That sounds horrible.

 

When I was younger than that, I used to walk to the meat market, the bakery and grocery store for my mom. No one thought anything of it. I also went to the library on my own.

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But did he? Did he take your kids away?

No. That doesn't invalidate my point. He scared my children, the younger one in particular. He threatened me. He said if they had been a year or two younger he would have. My point is that if someone slightly more nutso showed up or if I had tried to give them a little independence a year earlier it could easily have happened. You said you didn't believe cops took children away from parents for being briefly left alone. I was sharing an incident that contradicts that. He told me has done it and would do it again.

 

Cops (and ER folks and social workers for that matter)see the worst of the worst. Over time their perception can become skewed until they believe that parents in general are stupid and children must be protected from them. It's human nature. But that causes them to overstep and inflict considerable more harm than they were trying to prevent.

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That sounds horrible.

 

When I was younger than that, I used to walk to the meat market, the bakery and grocery store for my mom. No one thought anything of it. I also went to the library on my own.

Me too! Without a cell phone! Lol

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That sounds horrible.

 

When I was younger than that, I used to walk to the meat market, the bakery and grocery store for my mom. No one thought anything of it. I also went to the library on my own.

Kids those ages still walk to school alone, at least around here. Should their parents be threatened and bullies by police because the child is not under the direct supervision of an adult every moment? It seems some people would think so!

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Kids those ages still walk to school alone, at least around here. Should their parents be threatened and bullies by police because the child is not under the direct supervision of an adult every moment? It seems some people would think so!

Of course I don't think parents of kids that age should be threatened by the police! I would think my post of support to Barb made that clear.

 

Unfortunately here, ALL K thru 6 kids are bussed, even if they live a block away. Some kids walk a half block away from the school, catch the bus and then the bus drives around a few blocks (for more kids) before they are taken to school.

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Of course I don't think parents of kids that age should be threatened by the police! I would think my post of support to Barb made that clear.

 

Unfortunately here, ALL K thru 6 kids are bussed, even if they live a block away. Some kids walk a half block away from the school, catch the bus and then the bus drives around a few blocks (for more kids) before they are taken to school.

Now there's an efficient use of resources.

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Of course I don't think parents of kids that age should be threatened by the police! I would think my post of support to Barb made that clear.

 

Unfortunately here, ALL K thru 6 kids are bussed, even if they live a block away. Some kids walk a half block away from the school, catch the bus and then the bus drives around a few blocks (for more kids) before they are taken to school.

 

Oh, I didn't mean that you think kids should be threatened! Sorry if my post came across that way. I meant to agree with you that kids walking/going/being places alone at that age used to be normal and, at least in some instances, is still considered normal. My question was not directed at you, just thrown out there to whoever reads though I can see it might have looked that way. Kids around here aren't bussed unless they are more than 1 mile I think from school for elementary, and maybe 2 miles for high school. Lots of kids walk or bike every day.

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Now there's an efficient use of resources.

Hahaha.

 

Another thing I don't understand are the parents who drive their kids to the bus, in this neighborhood. I know what school the kids are going to and there are parents who drive to the corner and wait in the car, with it running, until the bus comes. They could DRIVE the kids to school! It is either 2, 3, or 4 blocks away.

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Oh, I didn't mean that you think kids should be threatened! Sorry if my post came across that way. I meant to agree with you that kids walking/going/being places alone at that age used to be normal and, at least in some instances, is still considered normal. My question was not directed at you, just thrown out there to whoever reads though I can see it might have looked that way. Kids around here aren't bussed unless they are more than 1 mile I think from school for elementary, and maybe 2 miles for high school. Lots of kids walk or bike every day.

:-) Gotcha.

 

I think it's 1 mile for middle school and 2 miles for high school here.

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No. That doesn't invalidate my point. He scared my children, the younger one in particular. He threatened me. He said if they had been a year or two younger he would have. My point is that if someone slightly more nutso showed up or if I had tried to give them a little independence a year earlier it could easily have happened. You said you didn't believe cops took children away from parents for being briefly left alone. I was sharing an incident that contradicts that. He told me has done it and would do it again.

 

Cops (and ER folks and social workers for that matter)see the worst of the worst. Over time their perception can become skewed until they believe that parents in general are stupid and children must be protected from them. It's human nature. But that causes them to overstep and inflict considerable more harm than they were trying to prevent.

 

Totally disagree. I'm one of those ER folk. It's not a skewing of perception; it's seeing first hand the reality of consequences from poor decision making. I'm not talking about your specific incident, I, myself, would allow kids of those ages to wander a bookstore alone.  

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Totally disagree. I'm one of those ER folk. It's not a skewing of perception; it's seeing first hand the reality of consequences from poor decision making. I'm not talking about your specific incident, I, myself, would allow kids of those ages to wander a bookstore alone.

You see first hand the worst consequences of what looks, in hindsight, the result of poor decision making. Sometimes it is, I'll concede that point. But sometimes pure accidents look like bad decisions only after something bad happens. What you don't see are the thousands and thousands and THOUSANDS of parents who make similar decisions every day with perfectly normal outcomes. So it's a little easier to interpret a fairly benign judgement call as as stupidity or neglect. Hence the tendency to overreact and call the police for things you personally wouldn't do. The individual can begin to hold him or herself up as the arbiter of what is safe and what is not. No exceptions. Let the judicial system sort it out.

 

The cop also told me he doesn't allow his 15yo so to wander around in stores out of his eyesight because there are just too many people out to hurt children. I didn't add that part because it sounds like I'm making it up, but I swear it's true. He doesn't do it, therefore it is unwise, dangerous and borderline neglectful.

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Which goes without saying is ridiculous. So in 3 years he goes from "can't leave out of eyesight in a store" to adult? Ridiculous. And I thought I was overprotective.

It is ridiculous! At that point I couldn't hold it in any longer. I blurted, but he's going to be driving age in a year! Don't you think there is some merit in allowing children to gradually grow into their adultood?" He disagreed and told me it was more important to keep kids safe. He was so sure he was right. How do you reason with that? It's like the quote in the article linked way upthread. Whether a parent who accidentally leaves a child in a hot car is charged with manslaughter, second degree murder, or nothing at all is almost always the decision of a single individual. You are totally at the mercy of the temperament and background of that one person. One of the men quoted who charged one of the parents with murder did so because he insists there is no way he would ever do that. Which reflects my original point. The individual becomes the ultimate authority of what is safe or understandable and what is criminal neglect.

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The way I see it is that risks that society has, as as whole, deemed wholly unacceptable are illegal.

 

There are many many things that are risky, but the discretion of  comparative risk vs reward is left to the parent - for instance, taking your kids in a car at all, or formula feeding, or going to the doctor more or less often for well-child checkups, etc.  There are a whole host of things I would never personally do that society as a whole has not largely decided are so dangerous and so little worth the risk as to make illegal, so when I see or hear of other parents doing these things, I don't call the cops or CPS or whatever, because I don't want someone telling me I have to take the kids to the dentist twice a year or never let them ride a bike or jump on a trampoline.

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I understand that. And I sympathized with you in your thread at the time. And I don't think what happened was ok. But in the end, CPS didn't come take your kids, because they don't take kids on a whim. It takes a lot for CPS to take kids away. And that's what we were talking about. Not being scared by the police, but actually taking the kids away. And, quite frankly, I do think the policeman overstepped in your case, by a lot.

 

SKL keeps saying don't call 911 if there is a kid in a hot car because the police will take the kid away. Don't call the police if people are endangering their kid, because the police will take the kid away. It doesn't happen like that. It truly doesn't happen that the police show up and take a kid away because you left him in the car for 5 minutes.

 

No. That doesn't invalidate my point. He scared my children, the younger one in particular. He threatened me. He said if they had been a year or two younger he would have. My point is that if someone slightly more nutso showed up or if I had tried to give them a little independence a year earlier it could easily have happened. You said you didn't believe cops took children away from parents for being briefly left alone. I was sharing an incident that contradicts that. He told me has done it and would do it again.

 

Cops (and ER folks and social workers for that matter)see the worst of the worst. Over time their perception can become skewed until they believe that parents in general are stupid and children must be protected from them. It's human nature. But that causes them to overstep and inflict considerable more harm than they were trying to prevent.

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Were your children taken away when the woman called 911 on you for leaving your kids in the car alone at fedex? Did the policeman even say to you, "I can take your kids away?" Have you personally met someone who had their kids removed due to lack of car seat or running into a store for five minutes?

 

 

 

No.  For one, my kids were school-aged.  Two, I drove away before the officer had a chance to decide if he wanted to do anything about my non-crime.  Three, until recently there weren't so many people declaring that they would / everyone should call the cops every time they see anyone leave any kid in any car for any amount of time.  It's getting crazier and crazier.

 

I do know one person who has a CPS file because she ran in to pay for something at the gas station mini mart, while her two young daughters were secured in their car seats.  That was years ago.  Who knows what would happen to her today.

 

I'm an older mom, so I don't personally know a lot of people with young kids today.

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But did he? Did he take your kids away?

 

Don't you think it's a problem if a family is threatened with that, even if it doesn't happen?  How would you like to have to wonder for months whether or not your kids are going to be taken away to live with strangers?  How would you like having to watch every step you make because Big Brother is Watching You?

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SKL could say the chemical formula of water is H2O and people would crucify her.

 

It gets old.

Well now, what evidence does she have? Can she prove that H2O is the formula for water? I want to see her lab notes, better yet I really don't think I cam trust such an assertion unless she gets it published in a peer reviewed journal. Can't just believe anything someone posts on the internet, you know

:D

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SKL keeps saying don't call 911 if there is a kid in a hot car because the police will take the kid away. Don't call the police if people are endangering their kid, because the police will take the kid away. It doesn't happen like that. It truly doesn't happen that the police show up and take a kid away because you left him in the car for 5 minutes.

 

 

No, I said don't call 911 unless you believe it's a real emergency.  If you see a kid in a car, look around, use your brains, check with the parents if possible, otherwise wait a couple minutes and see if there is a real danger to the child vs. just a parenting choice you would not make.

 

NO CHILD HAS EVER BEEN PHYSICALLY INJURED BECAUSE OF BEING IN A CAR FOR 5 MINUTES.  No child ever.  If it has ever happened, find me the proof.  If it has never caused injury IT IS SAFE and it is as good a parenting choice as any other.  But we know there are a series of cases of parents being prosecuted and in danger of losing their kids over doing this.  They are in the news more and more often.

 

So you say, that as far as you know, kids won't be taken for being in a car 5 minutes.  I'm not sure.  But if it's really just 5 minutes, the police never should have been called in the first place.  The parents and kids shouldn't have been scared.  The parents should not have to be investigated.  A CPS file should not be opened.  They should not have to hire a lawyer, appear in court, have to plead guilty to a "lesser charge," have a criminal record, pay fines, report to probation officers, etc.

 

All I'm asking is that people think about the gravity of the consequences before they call 911.  Hopefully most of us would do that, but many declare that they would "not hesitate" to call 911 if they saw a kid alone in a car, without any additional considerations.  I am saying everyone should hesitate because their call could hurt the child more than it helps.  But if, after hesitating, you determine there is real danger, then call.

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No, I said don't call 911 unless you believe it's a real emergency.  If you see a kid in a car, look around, use your brains, check with the parents if possible, otherwise wait a couple minutes and see if there is a real danger to the child vs. just a parenting choice you would not make.

 

But that would require people to use their critical thinking skills and take responsibility for their decisions. Better to have a zero-tolerance policy, akin to suspending kids from school for banana guns. Why think and take responsibility when you can just act and it becomes someone else's problem, while you go home satisfied you did something?

 

Yes, I'm being sarcastic.  :)

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A couple people have mentioned that babies used to ride in the front seat and people knew they were there so they didn't get forgotten in the car.

 

I was born in 1970. I am the daughter of a pediatric ER nurse. I had a car seat from birth until 3, when I was moved into a booster seat. I never rode in the front seat until I was 12. So I know I had an unusual upbringing that way. I have never ridden in a car without a seatbelt, ever.

 

Here is my question...did more babies die in car accidents from being in the front seat than are dying from being left in a hot car? Which is statistically more dangerous?

 

Cannot find it, but I read an article a year or two...or three...ago which had the numbers that showed it to be statistically more dangerous for the child to be in the back seat. I was absolutely shocked. Wish I could find it.

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I am still processing the idea of imagining myself as a kid 8-11, and hearing the police say that they were thinking of handcuffing my mother, arresting her and putting my brother and I in foster care.  And, have it be for a completely totally innocent thing I did.  Can you imagine ever having any faith at all in the police or government authority figures?  I could totally see myself NOT calling out to the police even if I got into a pickle because I would assume that they would make it worse.  

 

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Well now, what evidence does she have? Can she prove that H2O is the formula for water? I want to see her lab notes, better yet I really don't think I cam trust such an assertion unless she gets it published in a peer reviewed journal. Can't just believe anything someone posts on the internet, you know

:D

 

ban dihydrogen monoxide!  ;)

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I am still processing the idea of imagining myself as a kid 8-11, and hearing the police say that they were thinking of handcuffing my mother, arresting her and putting my brother and I in foster care.  And, have it be for a completely totally innocent thing I did.  Can you imagine ever having any faith at all in the police or government authority figures?  I could totally see myself NOT calling out to the police even if I got into a pickle because I would assume that they would make it worse.  

 

I'm trying to understand - you're imagining what it would be like to have the police arrest your mother when you are the child and thinking you as the child did something wrong so you don't trust the police?

 

I was five when I was with my mother when she was arrested for shoplifting.  I was confused and overwhelmed - and the adults kept giving me paper and crayons (but were all very kind) while my mother was being "interviewed".  I don't remember how i got home that night, my dad probably picked me up.  I didn't lose any belief the police would help me.

 

 

 . . .  now the female cop who responsded to my 911 call when I heard someone outside my house a month after someone entered and assaulted me . . . .  (the men were all nice, that woman has no business being a cop.)

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I'm trying to understand - you're imagining what it would be like to have the police arrest your mother when you are the child and thinking you as the child did something wrong so you don't trust the police?

 

I was five when I was with my mother when she was arrested for shoplifting. I was confused and overwhelmed - and the adults kept giving me paper and crayons (but were all very kind) while my mother was being "interviewed". I don't remember how i got home that night, my dad probably picked me up. I didn't lose any belief the police would help me.

 

 

. . . now the female cop who responsded to my 911 call when I heard someone outside my house a month after someone entered and assaulted me . . . . (the men were all nice, that woman has no business being a cop.)

She's referring to the post upthread where a cop confronted and threatened a mother who left her 11 and almost 8 year old children in a bookstore for half an hour to spend their allowance money.

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