Orientation observations

[Just Another Jen]

I attended parent orientation yesterday while my son registered for his classes.

The parents were told ,

 

" The kids don't like to read the emails sent from the university- try to get their passwords so they don't miss important deadlines"

 

 

Sending the students off to register they were told to meet back in the basement to receive their student ids-

Person with microphone-

Don't forget to return to the basement.

Where are you going after this? The basement.

Where will you meet your parents? The basement

 

Really? How will these kids survive on their own?

 

I really wish I had ditched the group- I could have read all afternoon on a bench.

 

 

[regentrude]

None of this surprises me in the least, because a substantial portion of college students still operates the same way:

they do not check their campus email, sometimes for weeks,

they do not follow instructions set out in the syllabus,

they do not peruse the course website that has all information and resources for the class

they do not listen to announcements in class.

 

If I had a nickel for every time I could have answered a student question with the words "that is in the syllabus (which you received on the first day of class)", I'd be rich. And it is not little anal details, but major stuff like when and where the exams are, how many points some assignment is, that there is tutoring available, when and where I am conducting help sessions. I have been making a certain announcement daily for two weeks and still some people missed that information (which was in the syllabus to begin with)

 

 

 

[elegantlion]

I will also add that students should not simply read the syllabus once. I studied mine before class last year, yet some of the dates and the way a few teachers wrote things didn't make sense until after class started. One teacher had a weird way of doing quizzes because they were online and he wanted it done in a different way than any other online class. Another made his quiz deadlines on Wednesday instead of Friday and half the class missed the first quiz. I'm a well organized person and I missed things because each teacher seems to have a different way of communicating. 

So yes, read the syllabus multiple times. I printed mine out (online classes) and put them in a class folder. 

 

[Kareni]

And speaking of reading syllabi ....

 

I like to post this every so often because it amuses me and because the message is a valid one.


Warning: The following link contains adult language!


If you are not easily offended, you might enjoy reading this piece from the now sadly defunct Rate Your Students site. The piece is entitled: We'd Encourage Future Students to Read the Syllabus, or Maybe Just Take Another Class.

Regards,
Kareni

[regentrude]

And speaking of reading syllabi ....

 

I like to post this every so often because it amuses me and because the message is a valid one.

 

 

Those are fabulous. Sometimes I am itching to write a similar response.

[Nan in Mass]

Well, in the college's defence, at orientation the students are typically quite distracted, so the repeated directions probably makes a certain amount of sense.  My own are as guilty as anyone's about not reading the syllabi and not checking emails, despite the huge amount of emphasis I placed on this.  Grrrr....  I'm not sure what to do about it except wait until they are 21 to send them.  The 21yo didn't have that problem.  Other problems, yes, but not that one.  He says nobody should go to college until they are 21 lol.  (You have to remember that in my family, we have late bloomers - children who are capable of traipsing around Europe or sailing a boat off into the sunset on their own but who somehow can't manage simple organizational details.  Sigh

 

Nan

[Just Another Jen]

Well, that is a good point. I would agree that by 21 most kids are ready at least more than are at 18.

[Susan in TN]

Those are fabulous. Sometimes I am itching to write a similar response.

:D (Did you read about Lawn Mower Moms?)

[creekland]

Well, in the college's defence, at orientation the students are typically quite distracted, so the repeated directions probably makes a certain amount of sense.  My own are as guilty as anyone's about not reading the syllabi and not checking emails, despite the huge amount of emphasis I placed on this.  Grrrr....  I'm not sure what to do about it except wait until they are 21 to send them.  The 21yo didn't have that problem.  Other problems, yes, but not that one.  He says nobody should go to college until they are 21 lol.  (You have to remember that in my family, we have late bloomers - children who are capable of traipsing around Europe or sailing a boat off into the sunset on their own but who somehow can't manage simple organizational details.  Sigh

 

Nan

 

Nan, my youngest is right there with yours.  He is so good at what he can/does do, but can't be bothered with basic directions for things that don't interest him.  He would need the reminders too - ESP with just starting college - something new and exciting.

 

I'll admit to being concerned at how he will do - and being glad he's in a small school where they do go the extra mile (or so they say) to help students make the transition.

 

Oldest and middle would not have needed the extras.  Kids are just different.

[kiana]

:D (Did you read about Lawn Mower Moms?)

 

I remember reading that, although thankfully I haven't run into one yet.

[musicianmom]

There was no such thing as parent orientation at my college. Can 1992 really be that long ago?

[maize]

I don't recall a parent orientation either. Student orientation, yes. They organized us all into groups with upperclassmen councilors, it felt like being at summer camp or something. But I don't recall any parents around. Mine were thousands of miles off. Though I did somehow miss the fact that the testing center was only open until noon on Saturdays...

[creekland]

There was no parent orientation for me either (large state school).  Mom and one of my aunts dropped me off and helped me move in, then left with tears in her eyes that took me years to understand.  I understand them 100% now.

 

Since we weren't aware that there was such a thing as parent orientation, we missed oldest's.  Missing it did NOT give him a good start to college as all the other kids (or seemingly all) had parents there.  It's something I would redo if I could.  We had notice of parent information sessions with varying topics, but just kind of assumed we didn't need them.  We still don't to be totally honest.  It's the kids who like having parents there rather than being alone.  We attended middle son's and will attend youngest's to be there for them.

[Just Another Jen]

It was like the school knew that parents would want to butt in to registration so they "entertained" us to keep us away from the students. They should have just said drop your kid off- come back at 3pm. Here is a lunch voucher and a map of the town. I would have been thrilled.

[FaithManor]

Hmmm...back in the mists of time when I was dropped at college there were no parent orientation meetings. You went to the registrar's office and got your class list so you could go to the bookstore and pay a million dollars for books, then to see your advisor - while doing this your dad was carrying a refrigerator plus all your stuff up to your room and looking around to see if the bunk beds really were sturdy or was he going to have to go to the hardware store and collect supplies for repairs - then back to your room so you could say goodbye to your parent and pretend that you were going to miss him when in all actuality you couldn't wait for him to leave so you could go to your one hour boring orientation meeting in which you were told everyone on your right or left, OR BOTH, would not be there at the end of the year and then realized this meant someone was looking at you and you thought, "Well that's stupid because I'm not dropping out of school", and then to the cafeteria to discover the food was generally unappealing in color, smell, texture, and taste provoking the thought that you were going to need your parents to send you a LOT MORE pizza money and some anger at the fact that when you came for student days they lied to you about the food and clearly had it catered by some decent chef instead of the Army cook they actually must employ. At no time was your parent ever a consideration to the college except if you had a balance owing on your account and then suddenly they cared very, very much about your parents! LOL

 

I did not attend an orientation for dd at U of MI. But, she was a commuter student since she was living with my aunt during the week and here on the weekends and holidays, so maybe the orientation was only for traditional students or maybe they had one and dd didn't tell me about it. She was VERY independent and may have thought, "Don't bother mom."

 

This will be interesting if ds has a freshman orientation for parents. We'll go if he wants us to do so.

[Tokyomarie]

In the case of two of my children, parent/family orientation activities took place during the first one or two days right around drop-off. The students then go through several days of orientation activities prior to the start of classes. That's when the students get to do their initial bonding with other students and find out about their departments and various campus services. My middle child's school did orientation early in the summer, and  offered a parent program that was completely separate from the student event. In all cases, these parent programs are/were optional, so it's up to the parents to decide if they want/need to attend.

 

Rivendellmom, hindsight is 20/20, but if you didn't want to sit in those sessions, you could easily have bugged out and no one would have cared.

 

I will say that I took advantage of opportunities to meet special program and departmental personnel when they were available, such as at receptions for the program, music department concerts, etc. Establishing a basic "hi, how are you?" kind of relationship with these professors proved to be helpful a couple of times when I needed advice on how to handle a special situation that came up. I wasn't handling the situation for student, but I was able to get information about ways it could be handled within school policy so I could better coach the student on what steps needed to be taken.

[Nan in Mass]

Mine have all had some sort of parent orientation.  In the case of the older two, it was necessary.  In the case of the younger one, we could have gained the information via the website, but it was nice to have some gap between when we arrived on campus and when we said goodbye.  We liked being included in the welcoming ceremony and it was fun touring the workshops.  A lot more of them were open than at the open house.  The information sessions presented website information but provided an opportuntiy to ask questions, which was nice.  It gave youngest memories of his family on campus, something I wanted all my children to have.  At both schools, orientation was several days long and we were only there for the first day, so there was plenty of time for the students to get to know one another.  At youngest's, course registration was taken care of at a different time, so that wasn't part of orientation.  Their computer registration program is horrible and the major requirements are complicated, so they have upper classmen help the freshman to wade through the process both semesters.  This is a tech school, so when the students complain that a technical thing is difficult to manage on their own, you know it really is.  Of course, part of that might be the macros they all write...  It was a nightmare at older ones' school, too, but more of the ordinary nightmare it always is.  Anyway, when I think about how drop-off worked when I was in school, I am grateful that my boys' schools acknowledge that parents are still a major part of the students' lives and that this can be a difficult transition.  Those six hours of parent programming can make it a bit easier.  But it might just be that our family doesn't do this sort of transition easily and that the schools my children picked tend to attract students who are a bit lopsided and require extra parental support.

 

Nan

[Reefgazer]

I teach at a local college, and it drives the administration nuts that students don't read the syllabus or e-mails from the college.  This nuttiness is self-inflicted on the part of the college, though, because they send out e-mails for every trivial thing (so college e-mails become like spam), and demand that we have a 17 page syllabus for a single course (in order to cover their backside legally for every conceivable situation).  I've had to hand out additional paperwork at the beginning of my classes, limited to 1 page only, for the sole purpose of isolating really important, class-related stuff (like deadlines, grading policy, test dates, etc) that they actually need to know for my course.  I then tell them that that is their "working document" and they need to park that page in the front of their notebook and refer to it every week and that it has everything most people will need for the course, if they don't have special circumstances.

I attended parent orientation yesterday while my son registered for his classes.

The parents were told ,

 

" The kids don't like to read the emails sent from the university- try to get their passwords so they don't miss important deadlines"

 

 

Sending the students off to register they were told to meet back in the basement to receive their student ids-

Person with microphone-

Don't forget to return to the basement.

Where are you going after this? The basement.

Where will you meet your parents? The basement

 

Really? How will these kids survive on their own?

 

I really wish I had ditched the group- I could have read all afternoon on a bench.

 

[EndOfOrdinary]

My husband just graduated another class of seniors this Saturday and was talking about how differently many of the girls vs boys were (not all, but many). He said it was so interesting about half way through Junior year, or sometimes over the summer before Junior year, the girls morph into adults. They get themselves together and it is so fast. The maturity just takes over. Many of his boys will graduate and still not quite be there. To him they are still becoming adults. Some come back at nineteen or twenty and the pieces are starting to really fall into place. It appears to be a much slower transition for boys than girls. I can see college take on the brunt of this sort of adulthood transition. They are almost there, but not quite. They want to be adults, but are rather clueless. Repeated specific directions, though annoying, might actually be a saving grace!

[kiana]

I teach at a local college, and it drives the administration nuts that students don't read the syllabus or e-mails from the college.  This nuttiness is self-inflicted on the part of the college, though, because they send out e-mails for every trivial thing (so college e-mails become like spam), and demand that we have a 17 page syllabus for a single course (in order to cover their backside legally for every conceivable situation).  I've had to hand out additional paperwork at the beginning of my classes, limited to 1 page only, for the sole purpose of isolating really important, class-related stuff (like deadlines, grading policy, test dates, etc) that they actually need to know for my course.  I then tell them that that is their "working document" and they need to park that page in the front of their notebook and refer to it every week and that it has everything most people will need for the course, if they don't have special circumstances.

 

Heh, and some colleges ban this practice (the single-page document) because then "students won't read the syllabus" -- they literally micromanage your paperwork to that extent.

[Reefgazer]

I know; we are told, down to the exact wording, what must be in our syllabus for each class.  But we are also allowed additional documents for our class if necessary, and that's where my 1-page working document comes in.  So far, I haven't been spanked for it.  :)

Heh, and some colleges ban this practice (the single-page document) because then "students won't read the syllabus" -- they literally micromanage your paperwork to that extent.

 

[G5052]

No 1-pagers allowed for me either, although I do the equivalent on the course management system on a FAQ link where I have my contact info, important dates, late policy, attendance policy, and weather policy.  They nag and nag about how the syllabus is like a legal document and go through them with a fine tooth comb.  I thought mine was long (12 pages), but my oldest is taking the class I teach from another professor, and his is 18 pages long.

[Tokyomarie]

Re: no 1-page summaries of important syllabus info:

 

It appears that administrators who make such policies have never engaged with the ideas in Universal Design for Learning, which is a set of principles for creating classrooms that are accessible to all, or at least most, learners. Students with reading or other learning disabilities are highly unlikely to tackle an 18pg syllabus- especially if it's in 10 or 11 point font and lots of information squished on the page will little formatting or white space. If they are motivated students, they may glance through it once, but truthfully, with other reading and assignments starting immediately, their eyes tend to glaze over and it gets tossed aside.

 

A 1-page document with assignment dates and other critical information may feel redundant to administrators but if well-formatted becomes an alternate format which makes it easier for students to pull information from to plug into calendars, contact lists, etc.

 

Something that has helped my son even more is to have due dates posted prominently on Blackboard, either on the first page seen when the student accesses the course webpage or on an assignments tab. I am taking online courses right now. I download the long syllabus, read it, and save it to a folder for future reference if needed. However, all assignments & due dates are posted prominently on the first page seen when I log into the course. BIG help for a busy woman handling sandwich generation responsibilities, volunteer responsibilities, and trying to get back into the workforce.  

[Blue Hen]

It was like the school knew that parents would want to butt in to registration so they "entertained" us to keep us away from the students. They should have just said drop your kid off- come back at 3pm. Here is a lunch voucher and a map of the town. I would have been thrilled.

 

At DS's orientation the schedule states  ' Only the student will be with counselor for registration, parents are not permitted to attend.' 

[Gwen in VA]

We just got back from summer orientation. Supposedly summer orientations are a "hot new trend" in the college experience. ???

 

We found it to be a complete waste of time. Including two nights of hotels, gas for the seven hour drive down and the seven hour drive back, a few meals out, and the actual $$$ of the orientation, the total cost was nearly $600.

 

For the $600, my dd and I did not learn anything that we did not already know from reading the website and emails.

 

I was told to:

     * make sure my "child" (literally!) checked his campus email frequently

     * make sure my child knew to attend classes reguarly

     * make sure my child knew about all the campus support services available

 

Can you tell that I am a bit grumpy about this waste of time and money? My feedback on the orientation survey was equally "sweet".

 

I was told that students are increasingly unprepared for the "rigor" of college, and that summer orientation provides an opportunity for the college to basically train the parents to guide their students through the maze. Yikes! If I felt my kid was unprepared for college, I wouldn't send him/her!

 

As I sat snoozing through one of the many redundant sessions, I had a weird thought -- some students who graduated only weeks ago are already in boot camp, being prepared to deal with lives and million-dollar pieces of equipment, yet our "top students" (at least top 10-20%) are being reminded that they shouldn't skip class too often and it would be nice if they could be bothered to check their campus email. Strange!

 

 

[Just Another Jen]

Yes, yes, yes. I am just glad it was only a 90 minute trip for me. It was just a stupid time waster. I can't stand going to meetings where they read you their hand out. This was a whole day of that.

[ThisIsTheDay]

.

 

I was told to:

     * make sure my "child" (literally!) checked his campus email frequently

     * make sure my child knew to attend classes reguarly

     * make sure my child knew about all the campus support services available

 

I agree, Gwen, that a large part of dd's orientation could have been cut out last year. Near the end, I did give her the option of skipping the third day, which was an outreach project to the community. The students were boarded onto busses, taken to a clothing donation center where they sorted clothes. They were fed Panera box lunches on the way back to school. But she did decide to go. We also spent three nights away from home, and I just chalked it up to part of the expense of going away to school. (Thankfully, we didn't have to fly and rent a car!)

 

For us, orientation overall was not a complete waste. This was an honors-college specific orientation, with <300 students. Students had already been given the option to register a few weeks beforehand (necessary to get into those certain required classes!) but could meet with counselors.   I was not so into the parent groupings where we could "share our feelings" about our kids going to school, but I'm an info junkie, so I appreciated hearing in great detail about the health care center, meal plans, and all that stuff that may not be absolutely necessary.  It was weird to me that some of the students hadn't read the orientation info enough to know that their parents could come. They were there solo, and two other girls (including dd's soon to be roommate) eagerly joined us for the "family" meal one evening. They said they were bummed their parents weren't there.

Afterwards, dd commented that the whole of orientation is organized by extroverts and designed for extroverts.  But she held her own, and it was important to me that she participate in the beginning just to know what her options were down the road.  It's definitely more important, imo, for parents of first time college students than subsequent kids. 

[Nan in Mass]

...Afterwards, dd commented that the whole of orientation is organized by extroverts and designed for extroverts. ...

 

Ok - I have to laugh at this assessment.  It is very much what my son said about his college application - that the whole application process was designed by extroverts for extroverts, that admissions counselors were by definition extroverts, and that whoever thought it was a good idea to have extroverts judging the introverts' applications was crazy.

 

I have been to orientation at four colleges now, two for myself and two for my children.  My own experience involved two very large schools.  One was one ok and necessary (just unimaginative) and one a complete waste of time.  (This is part of the reason I am not a big fan of orientation during the summer.)  The other two were very small schools and were good and necessary.  They were right before school began.  They were well run.  The people running them had a realistic idea of how grownup or not grownup this particular batch of students was, very in some areas, less so in others, and it happened to match the grownupness and ungrownupness of my particular children.  Well, not so much "happened" as "chosen in part because".  Both schools have atypical things about the academic structure.  Both schools worked hard to educate their students about that structure and their own wellfare.  They also worked hard to help the students to begin to form working relationships and friendships.

 

I think part of the reason my sons have considered orientation worthwhile is that their orientations either were organized by people who are good at running things and focused on teaching their students to do the same, or were organized by people who know full well that their student population contains a large number of introverted or oblivious students.  Youngest's techie school is focused on teaching problem solving skills and the school seems to apply those problem-solving skills to itself.  My highly suspicious youngest said the get-to-know-you activities were brilliantly designed and varied in approach so widely that he thought almost everyone probably found at least a few of them fun and useful.  All three have commented at various times that their schools did a good job at orientation of covering things sex ed and safety.  Parents were only included for part of the first day.

 

Nan

[Brenda in MA]

I think part of the reason my sons have considered orientation worthwhile is that their orientations either were organized by people who are good at running things and focused on teaching their students to do the same, or were organized by people who know full well that their student population contains a large number of introverted or oblivious students.  Youngest's techie school is focused on teaching problem solving skills and the school seems to apply those problem-solving skills to itself.  My highly suspicious youngest said the get-to-know-you activities were brilliantly designed and varied in approach so widely that he thought almost everyone probably found at least a few of them fun and useful.

 

Nan

I agree. My oldest (introvert) went to a techie school, and they had a 2-day summer orientation session. They stayed overnight one night in the dorms. He was pretty apprehensive about going away to school anyway, so the orientation was really helpful just to make him more comfortable with the idea. He was able to see that his fellow classmates were pretty friendly, and most were also curious types like himself. He was also interested in exploring a possible alternate major, and he and I were able to meet with that department the day before and get him special permission to take their intro course, which was restricted just to students with that major. So when registration happened, he was able to let the staff know he had permission to take that specific course from the department. We were also able to visit the health center and make them aware of some special issues he has. So I thought his orientation was very useful.

 

I can see that if your student is pretty confident going in and doesn't really need anything special, that the orientation could be a waste of time. Youngest's school does orientation the couple of days before classes, so it will be awhile before we can report how that went.

 

Brenda

[creekland]

I have no idea how my youngest's orientation will be, but we've tacked it on to the end of a Disney trip (graduation trip) and will be spending "our" nights (not him) at the beach, so... I suspect my standards for "pleased" won't be difficult to meet regardless of what happens in the sessions.  ;)

 

And I still regret missing oldest's due to not realizing these things existed - even though I doubt "we" would have learned anything we didn't already know.  With group sessions/things, it's difficult to plan everything out and please everyone - a sense of being on (or joining) a team probably helps.

[Gwen in VA]

Orientation was not a complete waste for us. At the orientation dd had the unexpected realization that this was NOT the right college for her! (I do wonder if my dd is the only person who has ever gone to a summer orientation and withdrawn from the college within 24 hours of returning home!)

 

My husband pointed out that the expense of summer orientation -- about $500 for us -- was cheap if it prevented dd from spending a year of her life in a place she did not belong!

 

She went home thinking that she had to go to a community college and transfer since it is so late in the year, but W&M graciously re-accepted her and, to our great surprise, reinstated her status as a Monroe Scholar.

 

Life is full of the unexpected!

[Okra]

Orientation was not a complete waste for us. At the orientation dd had the unexpected realization that this was NOT the right college for her! (I do wonder if my dd is the only person who has ever gone to a summer orientation and withdrawn from the college within 24 hours of returning home!)

 

My husband pointed out that the expense of summer orientation -- about $500 for us -- was cheap if it prevented dd from spending a year of her life in a place she did not belong!

 

She went home thinking that she had to go to a community college and transfer since it is so late in the year, but W&M graciously re-accepted her and, to our great surprise, reinstated her status as a Monroe Scholar.

 

Life is full of the unexpected!

 

What was it that made her decide that it was not the right college?

[creekland]

She went home thinking that she had to go to a community college and transfer since it is so late in the year, but W&M graciously re-accepted her and, to our great surprise, reinstated her status as a Monroe Scholar.

 

Life is full of the unexpected!

 

REALLY glad to hear it worked out well!  Also kind of curious as to why she changed her mind...

 

[Gwen in VA]

No more!

[creekland]

Sounds like a wise choice... thanks for the info.

[Teachin'Mine]

Wow!  Good for her for realizing she needed to make a change and good for the new college for honoring their initial offer.  I'll bet she's going to love it there!

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Gwen,

 

Does the school ask why a student is withdrawing their acceptance.  Because I would definitely mention the lack of response from the Registrar, as well as the non-credit policy itself.

 

I know I'm getting grumpier as I get older. But I figure that a college degree may be the most expensive thing a person buys (unless they buy a house). Unless in the role of consumer, families explain that a policy, fee or practice turned them off, the school may just keep doing it.

 

It may have no effect at all, but I'm just out of patience with colleges that act like they don't have to be responsive.

[Gwen in VA]

I have written one but I haven't sent it yet -- I don't want to get into a cat-fight, but I do want to tell someone how horribly the registrar's office is run. The funny thing is that I heard that the last president was fired for accepting students who didn't have a chance of graduating in four years. (???) I don't know the details, but I am wondering if he was fired for something similar to what happened to my daughter.

 

The new president is moving in this week. I wish her luck! Something does seem to be wrong