I love Discovering Mathematics!

[chiguirre]

Not many people continue using Singapore Math once they hit pre-algebra, but DM is truly a gem.

 

First off, it's not a big, heavy, unwieldy tome. It's a light paperback with eye-pleasing layout. That's a matter of taste, of course, but the print's not too small and they don't jam too much information on each page. It doesn't feel like a math avalanche just hit you.

 

It's got brief but complete explanations of each topic and they build on each other nicely. Each day doesn't feel overwhelming but you're making steady progress.

 

It's got a reasonable number of problems clearly divided by difficulty, not the huge problem sections that I've seen in many American curricula. This means I don't have to wade through a lot of dross to find the most interesting problems and I don't have to wonder if we're doing enough. If you're not worried about doing lots of highly challenging problems, you don't need the workbook. There are enough problems (including a couple of real world application and challenging problems) in each problem set.

 

It's got the answers to ALL the problems in the back of the book. It's easy to check homework quickly, especially for procedural practice problems. The workbook also has answers to all the problems. If you don't need a solutions manual but you like the ease of checking answers quickly, this is ideal.

 

ETA: This is the first time I've posted a curriculum review instead of just replying to questions. I hope that it's helpful, especially when someone searches for the topic in the future.

 

It's got a chapter review section that can serve as a test. Now that we're doing secondary mathematics, I feel we need to test, but I'm not sure how to make one myself. This feature solves that problem for me. I went through and tore out the review sections and put them aside. This didn't destroy the binding, so the book's not ruined if you've got more than one kid who will use the book.

 

It's an integrated math book so you keep moving forward in algebra, geometry and statistics skills in tandem. That's important to me because I think breaking algebra and geometry into separate courses makes it harder to see the relationships between them. It's also ideal if you plan to use the ACT or SAT as your standardized testing in middle school. If you're interested in having your child do a talent search in 7th grade, DM has the advantage of introducing both algebra and geometry topics so you've covered more of the possible tested topic areas than a standard prealgebra/alg 1/geom/alg 2 progression.

 

DM's main negative is its cost, especially if you need to buy the solutions manuals (the teacher's edition and the workbook solutions). If you can do the math yourself, it's not as expensive. Personally, I feel the positive features justify the cost and DM is comparable to the 1-6 books with WB, IP and CWP.

 

I'm glad to have DM available. I loved SM's elementary program and this is a great continuation of that program. I went through a lot of math curricula over the last year before settling on this one, and that process was very useful for seeing the different presentations that are possible. DM shines for its concise explanations, incremental development and eye-pleasing layout.

[Wildiris]

Great review! And helpful too. Do you feel like there is enough practice?

Hint-- Retitle your post as a review so it will be indexed by Google. This is a good, honest review with the kind of details I look for when researching curriculum.

 

Cheers!

[Clear Creek]

I have never really looked at it before, so I have some questions. Are the textbook and workbook both necessary, or is the workbook just extra practice? And if a student transitions to this program from another program, what level would you say it begins with (in other words, does it start with prealgebra topics or does it jump straight into algebra)? I am happy with AOPS for my oldest, but I like to explore my options for my younger two.

[Crimson Wife]

DM 7 is pre-algebra, and some of the easier topics in algebra 1 and H.S. geometry. DM 8 is the rest of algebra 1, some of the easier topics of algebra 2, and more geometry. Note that the geometry is all calculations and not proof-based.

 

I think a student who has not previously done a "conceptual" math program would have difficulty switching to DM. MM, MiF, MEP, etc. users would probably be fine. But I wouldn't go from Saxon, Horizons, CLE, etc. into DM.

 

The workbook I run 1 semester behind the textbook to build in review. I do not assign all the workbook problems. I always assign all the problems the hardest two workbook sections (math@work and enrichment). The easiest section (basic practice) we typically skip, and the second section (further practice) it really varies by topic. Usually she does half of those problems, but it could be all of them or none depending on how well she has mastered the particular topic.

[mombygrace]

I agree. My older son used singapore from book 1 through additional math and it gave him a freat foundation and confidence in math. He went directly to calculus at the community college and felt some of the early topics were review.

The cost can be a deterrent but using it for 3 children makes it a good investment.

[jonnia]

Well, this thread just cost me a few dollars. :w00t:

 

Seriously, thank you! I've been uncertain about our plans for 7th grade math next year. The elementary levels of Singapore Math were a big hit here. I honestly hadn't looked that closely at the upper levels. The integrated approach is a big advantage in my opinion.

[chiguirre]

I think you could make due with just the textbook, especially if your child doesn't enjoy puzzle problems. There are at least a couple of challenging problems in each chapter and that's probably enough for most kids. The workbook provides extra problems at all four difficulty levels that the text does. So it's worth getting if you know your child will need extra practice in order to cement skills OR if you want extra challenging problems in addition to the text.

 

DM7 starts with prealgebra topics so you could pick it up at that point. I would say that if you didn't like SM in the elementary grades, I doubt you'll like DM. The exception to this is if you felt that SM required you to juggle too many books (TB, WB, IP and CWP). DM is more streamlined, you only need to deal with the TB and WB and you could make due with just the TB. Another caveat is that if you needed to teach extensively at the elementary level, you will probably need more teacher support than DM offers. If you could read the textbookwith your child in SM and then do the workbook with few issues, DM is even clearer in its explanations and example problems.

[mommyto4]

We have only done the first three units of DM7, but we love it here too.  Lots of practice, especially if you have the workbook, and the explanations are clear and thorough.  It is refreshing to have just the textbook to deal with in the day to day teaching and work.  We used the workbook for test questions, extra practice and review.

 

Julie

[Sue G in PA]

Does DM ever get to geometrical proofs? Thanks for your review. I switched ds out of SM last year when he completed 6B and moved to a more traditional text (Abeka Pre-Algebra). I am contemplating next year's Algebra 1 course and now I am reconsidering DM. :)  Thanks a lot! ;)  LOL. But proofs are really important to me for geometry. Doesn't have to be proof-heavy (we've used MUS Geometry in the past for my older kids) but needs "some" proof practice. 

[Sue G in PA]

Forget it. Saw that the new books are CCSS aligned. That is a HUGE turn-off for me. Way to go Singapore. You just ruined it. 

[Crimson Wife]

Forget it. Saw that the new books are CCSS aligned. That is a HUGE turn-off for me. Way to go Singapore. You just ruined it. 

 

No, don't be scared off by the CC alignment. I used the old edition of DM 1A and the revised edition of DM 7B and they are equally rigorous. All Singapore did to make it CC aligned was to move a few topics into lower books and add some chapters on probability & statistics.

 

If it REALLY bothers you, CBD still has some of the old edition DM books in stock as of right now.

 

DM 1A textbook: http://www.christianbook.com/discovering-mathematics-textbook-1a/9789814176668/pd/176664

DM 1B textbook: http://www.christianbook.com/discovering-mathematics-textbook-1b/9789814176675/pd/176672/1427888081

DM 2A textbook: http://www.christianbook.com/discovering-mathematics-textbook-2a/9789814176682/pd/176680

DM 2B textbook: http://www.christianbook.com/discovering-mathematics-textbook-2b/9789814176699/pd/176699

[Crimson Wife]

Does DM ever get to geometrical proofs? Thanks for your review. I switched ds out of SM last year when he completed 6B and moved to a more traditional text (Abeka Pre-Algebra). I am contemplating next year's Algebra 1 course and now I am reconsidering DM. :)  Thanks a lot! ;)  LOL. But proofs are really important to me for geometry. Doesn't have to be proof-heavy (we've used MUS Geometry in the past for my older kids) but needs "some" proof practice. 

 

Supposedly there are some proofs in the "Additional Mathematics" textbook but they are somewhat different from 2-column American proofs. I don't have that particular book yet so I'm not exactly sure what they look like.

[*Jen*]

For those of you who went from Singapore Elementary to DM did you do level 6 or jump from 5B into DM?  Trying to decide what to do with my son who had no problems with Level 4 and will most likely complete Level 5 by early spring next year. I've heard some people say to skip 6 and move straight into pre algebra if they aren't having trouble after completeing 5B but most were going into other pre algebra programs. 

 

[PhotoGal]

I have the same question as *Jen*!  Can 6A/B be skipped? Or maybe gone through really quickly before starting DM 7? I promised ds he could start pre-algebra next year after 5B. :)

[Sue G in PA]

It might be too late for us to switch back to DM after doing a traditional Pre-Algebra program. And it is hard to break free from the mindset of Algebra 1 first, then Geometry, then Algebra 2. ;) Tough to wrap my brain around an integrated approach, though I know there is benefit. Perhaps with my younger children still using SM I will give DM a try. I wouldn't know which book to start in after using Abeka Pre-Alg. 

[chiguirre]

I have the same question as *Jen*!  Can 6A/B be skipped? Or maybe gone through really quickly before starting DM 7? I promised ds he could start pre-algebra next year after 5B. :)

I wouldn't skip 6a/6b but it won't take you long to do. Almost half the book is review and if you've just finished 5b you probably won't need to do that much to keep it fresh. SM6 does introduce some new topics including dividing fractions and the perimeter and area of a circle, so I wouldn't skip it if you'll continue on to DM.

[*Jen*]

I wouldn't skip 6a/6b but it won't take you long to do. Almost half the book is review and if you've just finished 5b you probably won't need to do that much to keep it fresh. SM6 does introduce some new topics including dividing fractions and the perimeter and area of a circle, so I wouldn't skip it if you'll continue on to DM.

 

Thanks!  

[chiguirre]

It might be too late for us to switch back to DM after doing a traditional Pre-Algebra program. And it is hard to break free from the mindset of Algebra 1 first, then Geometry, then Algebra 2. ;) Tough to wrap my brain around an integrated approach, though I know there is benefit. Perhaps with my younger children still using SM I will give DM a try. I wouldn't know which book to start in after using Abeka Pre-Alg.

Is this your 14yo? I don't think I'd use DM if you'll be more than a year behind. It has a big, fat 7 on the cover and that might be very crushing to a high school freshman. A book labeled Pre-algebra or Algebra 1 is much more neutral in that regard. You'd also have to do double math periods in order to finish Additional Maths before your student graduates. That might be too much if math is not their strongest subject. AM is necessary to cover all the topics expected before calculus and the majority of students in Singapore do AM in addition to DM in 9th and 10th grade. It's not optional if you're interested in a field that requires calculus.

[lewelma]

For those of you who went from Singapore Elementary to DM did you do level 6 or jump from 5B into DM? 

 

 

I have the same question as *Jen*!  Can 6A/B be skipped? Or maybe gone through really quickly before starting DM 7? I promised ds he could start pre-algebra next year after 5B. :)

 

It depends on if you are doing the advanced work found in the workbooks in DM.  If you are, then you really should be working through the Intensive Practice SM6 books, because the DM workbooks are hard! Way harder than the DM textbook.

 

Ruth in NZ

[nansk]

Forget it. Saw that the new books are CCSS aligned. That is a HUGE turn-off for me. Way to go Singapore. You just ruined it. 

 

Just to clarify, this refers to the company called Singapore Math.

 

(And truly, what do people expect them to do? Not align their books to CC just to please a tiny section of their customers?)

[dmmm]

 

 

All Singapore did to make it CC aligned was to move a few topics into lower books and add some chapters on probability & statistics.

 

And add a mind control beacon in the spine.  :laugh:

 

This thread has been so helpful.  I have been wondering about 6A/B and where to go after.  Now I think I can comfortably purchase my Math curriculum for the year.  Thanks!

[jonnia]

No, don't be scared off by the CC alignment.

 

The CC math standards aren't actually bad. They focus a great deal on deeper understanding of mathematics, which was already Singapore Math's strength. The nightmare stories we keep hearing/seeing regarding the CC math are more a result of pitiful implementation. Having already used SM for few years, I trust their methods.

[Kfamily]

Thank you for this review. I'm not there yet, but I've been thinking about where my younger daughter will go once finished with Primary Singapore US 6. Again, we're not there yet (still in 5) but I've been thinking about DM and other math programs. This is very helpful.

[Crimson Wife]

It might be too late for us to switch back to DM after doing a traditional Pre-Algebra program. And it is hard to break free from the mindset of Algebra 1 first, then Geometry, then Algebra 2. ;) Tough to wrap my brain around an integrated approach, though I know there is benefit. Perhaps with my younger children still using SM I will give DM a try. I wouldn't know which book to start in after using Abeka Pre-Alg. 

 

Algebra 1 is broken over DM 7 and 8 (or the old edition 1, 2, and 3) so you'd still need to start at 7A (or 1A) even after finishing another pre-algebra book.

[Crimson Wife]

The CC math standards aren't actually bad. They focus a great deal on deeper understanding of mathematics, which was already Singapore Math's strength. The nightmare stories we keep hearing/seeing regarding the CC math are more a result of pitiful implementation. Having already used SM for few years, I trust their methods.

 

Yes and no. The CCSS are not designed to prepare students for STEM majors at college and they are weaker than the previous math standards in my state. It was supposed to be a "floor, not a ceiling" but in practice districts ARE treating it like a ceiling. I haven't been able to get a straight answer out of my district as to whether they will continue to offer a full algebra 1 course in middle school (currently 75% of students take algebra 1 prior to 9th and 20% take geometry prior to 9th) after the changeover to CCSS.

 

But the Singapore books *WILL* prepare students for STEM majors, and which edition to use is a matter of parental preference.

[lewelma]

Well I am in NZ and don't care one hoot about the USA's common core.  The Discovering Math books may be aligned with CC, but the techniques used to teach the math are sound. I was a math teacher and now a math tutor so I own and have used many math books.

 

So if you are rejecting DM because it is now aligned with CC, you are doing it as a political statement, not because of the actual program.  JMHO

 

Ruth in NZ

[Ali in OR]

I have the same question as *Jen*!  Can 6A/B be skipped? Or maybe gone through really quickly before starting DM 7? I promised ds he could start pre-algebra next year after 5B. :)

 

My dd did Singapore Primary Math through 6B and started DM 1 in 7th (DM 7 and 8 both came out months after we began our year, so we used the old ones). There was a big jump in difficulty for dd in starting DM 1 after never having a problem with primary. Granted we were doing all of the workbook problems at that point, and those get pretty challenging, but still it took her several months to adjust and be able to do the problems at the level I expected (showing work, being accurate, checking answers as she went, mastering the material by the test, etc). I'm glad we were not trying to do it any younger. There is no need to rush into this program, and I think the student will get more out of it the more she does. So better to do it in 7th grade and do a lot of the workbook problems than to do it in 6th grade textbook only, in my opinion. And we eventually found our ideal difficulty level--all of the textbook for a given chapter, then from the workbook basic practice (half the problems if there are a million parts), further practice (usually half again), and I would pick some problems from the next section--can't remember what it was called. Typically skipped the last section--I think those were enrichment.

 

Very much agree with OP that DM has been a great program for us. As a former high school math teacher, I think it has given my dd a fantastic grounding in math. This is not a mathy kid, but for a non-mathy kid, she has really strong skills. Thanks to Singapore, she can solve word problems that I know would throw my old high school students for a loop. And she has no fear of them--those are the easier problems for her!

[Ivey]

Thanks for the review! Two of my older boys used NEM, but I hadn't taken a close look at DM. I've been debating whether to have Ds11 use NEM or Jacobs when he finishes SM 6, and it looks like DM might be the answer.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Ds11 is over 1/2 done with Dolciani Prealgebra: An Accelerated Course 1985. He is challenged by the word problems. He has been asking to use Singapore because he liked Singapore Primary Math 1--6. He did all the TB, WB, IP, and CWP. Should I let him do Singapore Discivering Math 7?

[MamaSprout]

It depends on if you are doing the advanced work found in the workbooks in DM.  If you are, then you really should be working through the Intensive Practice SM6 books, because the DM workbooks are hard! Way harder than the DM textbook.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

I have Russian Math 6 that I was considering instead of the IP 6. Would it be similar/ equivalent preparation?

 

Thanks!

[lewelma]

I have Russian Math 6 that I was considering instead of the IP 6. Would it be similar/ equivalent preparation?

 

Thanks!

 

Sorry, I have not seen Russian Math so I'm not sure.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Yes and no. The CCSS are not designed to prepare students for STEM majors at college and they are weaker than the previous math standards in my state. It was supposed to be a "floor, not a ceiling" but in practice districts ARE treating it like a ceiling. I haven't been able to get a straight answer out of my district as to whether they will continue to offer a full algebra 1 course in middle school (currently 75% of students take algebra 1 prior to 9th and 20% take geometry prior to 9th) after the changeover to CCSS.

 

But the Singapore books *WILL* prepare students for STEM majors, and which edition to use is a matter of parental preference.

Which books are you using now?

[Crimson Wife]

Which books are you using now?

 

DD was working through DM CC ed. 8A but then hit a wall with chapter 3. So we skipped ahead and did the geometry chapters of 8A. Then we circled back to the algebra, but she still wasn't understanding the concepts. So I tried her in EPGY Beginning Algebra with Lial's book without success. I pulled everything I had off the shelf (Larson, LoF, Danica McKellar, etc.) but it became clear to me that she needed a break from algebra. Right now she's working through a consumer math text (Larson's "Math and You") and we're going to try again in the fall closer to her 12th birthday.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Crimson Wife,

Do you use the TM and workbooks? Are both essential? I am seriously considering DM because ds11.5 asked to use Songapore math as he is familiar with it. Right now we are taking a break from Dolciani Prealgebra. He did fine most of the time with it and he is over half of the book. Which DM do you think will fit him? Thanks!

[Crimson Wife]

The workbooks are optional, and whether to use them is a matter of personal preference. The problems in the workbook are harder than the ones in the textbook, so for a bright child, I would definitely recommend getting the workbook. We are running the workbook 1 semester behind the textbook as a way of building in review to DM (the lack of review is IMHO one of the drawbacks to the program).

 

Several algebra 1 topics are in DM 7A, so that would be the book to start with even with a student who has finished pre-algebra. You could certainly skim through the pre-algebra chapters in DM 7, but I would recommend working through at least the harder sections (math@work and enrichment) because they are excellent test prep for the SAT & ACT and math contests like AMC & MathCounts.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Thanks! It is very helpful.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Would like to resurrect this thread. Ds finished 2/3 of Dolciani PreAlgebra and he is not solid. So we will discontinue Dolciani and just start DM 1A.

I have a concern: You all say that DM doesn't proofs or doesn't have enough proofs. What do you plan to use to add proofs? I loved doing proofs in high school and would love my kids to learn it, too. Thanks!

[AimeeM]

So is it the general consensus of the hive that this book doesn't work well for children coming out of a more traditional math background? I really love the integrated math idea, but we're definitely coming from a MM (which was hated by daughter - not much review at all, and the pages were entirely too cluttered), and CLE. She is, however, already balking at the "amish math program AGAIN" (I bought CLE Algebra, lol).

[JadeOrchidSong]

A pp mentioned that someone coming from MM will have NO problem going on to DM.

 

I have been browsing DM 1A all this afternoon. It is very visually appealing and uncluttered, compared to Dolciani Prealbegra we have been using.

[Ali in OR]

If this is your 11.5 year old, I wouldn't worry about proofs for awhile. For my dd, she is entering public high school this fall and will take geometry there as a 14 yo freshman where she will get proofs (though I believe there is not as much focus on proof as when I was in school or when I taught school 20+ years ago. Even 20+ years ago, we did proofs with the two highest math tracks, both of which led to calculus in the senior year, but we moved to UCSMP books for our lowest track which I believe did not do proofs). If my dd was still at home, I would probably use an old geometry text I taught from--Moise/Downs--and just fit in a semester or so on proofs, maybe after DM 3A if you stick with the older series.

 

I wouldn't mind using Discovering Mathematics with a kid coming from a traditional program. We came to it from Singapore Primary and still found it to be quite a jump up from what we had been doing. In other words, it's a transition for any student I think, but I think this time is a transition no matter what program you use--this transition from skills-based elementary math to the more logical thinking in prealgebra/algebra/geometry.

[chiguirre]

Would like to resurrect this thread. I just bought a whole set of 6 books of DM 1 and 5 books of DM 2 for $25 and $30 on eBay. Ds finished 2/3 of Dolciani PreAlgebra and he is not solid. So we will discontinue Dolciani and just start DM 1A.

I have a concern: You all say that DM doesn't proofs or doesn't have enough proofs. What do you plan to use to add proofs? I loved doing proofs in high school and would love my kids to learn it, too. Thanks!

 

Additional Maths covers proofs, although someone said they use a different format than American schools. I really disliked proofs in Geometry, I much preferred the symbolic logic unit and the SAT style problems that ask you to find angles or lengths of sides.

[AimeeM]

A pp mentioned that someone coming from MM will have NO problem going on to DM.

 

I have been browsing DM 1A all this afternoon. It is very visually appealing and uncluttered, compared to Dolciani Prealbegra we have been using.

 

She wasn't in MM for long (only a year).

[JadeOrchidSong]

Can I use the 1974 edition Jacob's Geometry to cover proofs? I just bought a copy.

[VeritasMama]

Can I just say, the back of the android's head on the cover of DM is creeping me out a bit. I guess I watched too many apocalyptic movies involving robots in my youth :).

[Arcadia]

Can I use the 1974 edition Jacob's Geometry to cover proofs? I just bought a copy.

 

Yes. Jacobs does the proofs. Additional Math proofs are not the two column format favored here.

Another nice supplement is Schaum's Outlines Geometry 5th edition.

[JadeOrchidSong]

Son did part of the first DM 1 A lesson today. It was hard for him. Should i continue DM and give it more time? He felt discouraged that the first day was not easy.

Find the smallest multiple of 19 greater than 500, for example. I showed him how to find the multiple of 27 under 1000. He found the multiple of 19 under 500, not over 500. I pointed it out to him and told him he needed to add another 19 to make it over 500, which is the answer.

So what do you think? This is a kid for whom Dolciani is not easy. He did 2/3 of Dolciani PreAlgebra already, but forgot quite a bit.

 

Would Jacob's Elementary Algebra be a good fit for him for after he is done with prealgebra if i need to go back to Dolciani prealgebra for him and discontinue DM? I still really hope DM works for him.

[Ali in OR]

Son did part of the first DM 1 A lesson today. It was hard for him. Should i continue DM and give it more time? He felt discouraged that the first day was not easy.

Find the smallest multiple of 19 greater than 500, for example. I showed him how to find the multiple of 27 under 1000. He found the multiple of 19 under 500, not over 500. I pointed it out to him and told him he needed to add another 19 to make it over 500, which is the answer.

So what do you think? This is a kid for whom Dolciani is not easy. He did 2/3 of Dolciani PreAlgebra already, but forgot quite a bit.

 

Would Jacob's Elementary Algebra be a good fit for him for after he is done with prealgebra if i need to go back to Dolciani prealgebra for him and discontinue DM? I still really hope DM works for him.

 

We had a rough start with DM. It asks more of the kids than has been asked of them before. I would say it took several months, at least 3 chapters, for us to find our groove. Dolciani prealgebra was our backup choice. On a bad day I would always ask dd if we should do that instead but she always wanted to stick with Singapore (which is quite a bit harder than Dolciani I think. Just asks more of the student.) Is your ds 7th grade yet? If not, you've got time and could finish Dolciani then come back to DM.

[JadeOrchidSong]

He is 11 3/4. I think we will go on with DM. If it is a huge struggle, then I will have Jacob's as back up.

[skimomma]

I was planning to leave SM after dd's 6th grade year.  Mostly because I could never really figure out which SM program to use next.  We have used SM from day one and have been happy with it.  However, dd has always struggled with the CWPs.  I only ask her to do about half of the problems in the book and of those, I usually have to help her with half of those.  We are planning 6A and 6B this year.  I would not describe dd as "mathy" at this point, although I did not get "mathy" until high school so I am not ruling that possibility out.  She did fine with the workbooks and extra practice.  If you had a kid like this, would you try DM?  Or move to something more traditional?

[nansk]

He is 11 3/4. I think we will go on with DM. If it is a huge struggle, then I will have Jacob's as back up.

Students in Singapore are between 12 and 13 when they start DM1.