Ask a Montessorian

[HumbleThinker]

I need practice explaining Montessori to parents and those in the community and you need to hear about Montessori education, so please ask me any and every question that you have about the Montessori approach to education. Thanks for the help! :)

[Pen]

Okay.

 

Please explain Montessori education. How does it resemble and differ from typical public school education? Waldorf education?

 

I gather a lot of manipulatives are used for learning math and reading--could you explain about those?

 

What would it look like for, say, a 6th or 7th grader?

 

I have heard that music and art is downplayed in Montessori. Is that true? Why is that?

 

If it is true that children begin by learning about the whole cosmos and history back from the beginnings of prehistory and then gradually work toward the current time and local place, why is that done as compared to starting with the present and one's own community and working outward from the small here and now?

[wapiti]

Explain what happens, practically speaking, when the "follow the child" approach is applied to a child with underachieving perfectionism issues, who is afraid to try challenging tasks which are within his ability albeit well above grade level.  (Answer, IME:  it depends entirely on the teacher.)

[dauphin]

Following. Attended Montessori myself and had kids in one for 7 years combined across kids. But I am not adept at explaining it to others as I haven't read much of the theory (although I'm starting to!)

[HumbleThinker]

Okay.

 

1) Please explain Montessori education  2) How does it resemble and differ from typical public school education? Waldorf education?

 

3) I gather a lot of manipulatives are used for learning math and reading--could you explain about those?

 

4) What would it look like for, say, a 6th or 7th grader?

 

5) I have heard that music and art is downplayed in Montessori. Is that true? Why is that?

 

6) If it is true that children begin by learning about the whole cosmos and history back from the beginnings of prehistory and then gradually work toward the current time and local place, why is that done as compared to starting with the present and one's own community and working outward from the small here and now?

 

Since I am unsure how to break up a quote on this site yet, I've taken the liberty of numbering your questions.

 

1) Montessor is aid to life that educates the whole child based solely on observing the conditions that are optimal for meeting his natural developmental processes and the effects of allowing him to develop naturally. These observations have been gathered from all parts of the world for over 100 years and have been found to generalize across cultures. A Montessori prepared environment is to the child's mind what proper food is to his body.

 

2) I have no experience with Waldorf and have only read a tiny bit about it, so I wouldn't feel confident comparing it to Montessori. But I did used to be a public school teacher, so I do feel confident answering that question :D The differences are many, so I will try to keep it brief. First, the child is given the freedom within limits to work constructively with a material of his choice in the classroom. Each material is meeting his needs in one respect or another (often multiple), and the guide's primary job is to connect the child with the environment to induce concentration with a material. Second, and this applies particularly to primary (ages 3-6) which is where I have my certification, the environment is a home for children, not a classroom. This is why the primary room is called a casa or children's house. This is most apparent with the materials of Practical Life, which quite literally are tasks you may or may not find in your own home such as sweeping, table washing, cooking, sewing, gardening, etc. This is already getting long, so we can discuss more differences if you wish in a later post. Third, as mentioned before, Montessori educates the whole child while traditional school tends to focus either solely on intellectual even in matters of character development or solely on socialization. For the child's natural development, his mind and body must be in sync and so must his intellectually, physical, and spiritual (character/social) development.

 

The one aspect that is the same that I would point out is this period Montessori termed the "initial chaos," the time before the children begin concentrating on an aspect of the environment. During this time, the behavior management can essentially be whatever the guide thinks is appropriate, so it can mirror some aspects of behavior management seen in traditional classrooms. After concentration, though, the guide's primary tasks are to present materials then become invisible. 

 

3) In the first plane (birth-6) the child is predominantly  a sensorial learner, so the beuaty of the Montessori materials are seen in the very sensorial way the world is given to the child. This includes the area that is called sensorial, but, as you pointed out, also includes language and math. Reading specifically, which is the last of the three areas of language (spoken, writing, reading) the child masters gives the child opportunities to sensorially manipulate the word order of phrases and sentences to explore constructions that make sense and don't make sense and how this may impact the meaning and style of the phrase or sentence. They also label the parts of speech and parts of a sentence to visually see the relationships between them.

 

Math is much the same way where the child sensorially absorbs numbers 1-10 and 0, the decimal system, the four operations, math facts, and fractions until they have completely abstracted the aspects of math available to them in the primary casa, which may occur in the early weeks of the elementary class depending on several factors. The largest difference here between traditional and Montessori math can be seen in the very first math material: the number rods. In short, while traditional school teaches 4 for instance as 1+1+1+1, or 4 separate objects, Montessori begins by defining 4 as a single entity. While the alternating bands of red and blue hint at later exercises where quantities are seen as separate entities bundled together, the primary relation between the rods is one of length, each rod becoming longer by the length of the first rod. This relates back to the Red Rods, which the child used at least a year ago in the sensorial area.

 

4) I don't know much about the Middle School environment. Although we learned about each environment in general during my training, my area of certification is primary, which is for children age 3-6. Just in lower elementary, though, children are doing what many districts do in later elementary grades or even middle school, yet there is no sense of a teacher compelling children to learn these things. High school, though, I know a bit about, This and middle school are an area of fertile investigation right now as they are the two areas Montessori got to investigate and describe the least. Montessori talked of a concept called erdkinder, or children of the land. where they quite literally live and work on a farm.They are absolutely amazing and I really want to observe one at some point. The model for this concept is the Hershey Farm School in Ohio.

 

5) This is a common but understandable misconception based on some of Montessori's words. I used to think the same thing. A major material in the casa is a set of bells of both the diatonic and chromatic scale ranging from middle-C to high-C. There are many traditional and non-traditional art activities in the casa, including coloring, etching, painting, sewing, weaving, etc. The metal insets are a special sensorial material that is effectively art. The biggest difference is that there is no "art time" or "music time" and children aren't encouraged to do these activities just for the sake of doing them. They are an activity with a distinct developmental purpose like every other material in the casa.

 

6) The children actually do begin learning about their immediate environment in the primary casa. They don't learn about the cosmos until elementary. I am not exactly sure how the progression goes in elementary, but they have five "Great Lessons" that present the creation of the universe up to the creation of language and math by humans. I hear they are quite beautiful, though I haven't seen them presented myself. I'm sure there are YouTube videos out there of them. 

 

Hopefully that answered your questions. Let me know if there is anything that needs clarifying or more questions I may answer. These were all very good questions.

[HumbleThinker]

Explain what happens, practically speaking, when the "follow the child" approach is applied to a child with underachieving perfectionism issues, who is afraid to try challenging tasks which are within his ability albeit well above grade level.  (Answer, IME:  it depends entirely on the teacher.)

Good question, as this is a tough area for all guides in training and even after training. There's following the child and then there's following the child :p. The general distinction in Montessori is that if the child is concentration and he is not being dangerous, destructive, or distracting to others concentration, leave him alone and observe and correct later. If the child is not concentration, feel free to correct at that moment. 

 

The principle most appropriate here is to "meet the child where he is." In Montessori, such a behavior is termed a deviation because it is not the normal behavior of a child who has developed optimally. As you can guess, just about every child has deviations coming into a Montessori casa because none's environment is perfect (YET!). So this behavior is seen as having a cause from somewhere in the child's environment. The specific "cure" for this behavior will be based on observation, but the general principle is "work is the cure," for work leads to concentration, which eventually leads to normalization, which eventually leads to the cessation of deviations and increase of joy, refreshment, work ethic, etc.

 

For  sake of example, let's say the child in your question has the deviation of "inferiority." And let's say he is sticking to "easy" practical life exercises such as sweeping and cleaning a spill. I pick practical life only because I think it may be easier for you to relate to than if I picked Montessori specific materials from one of the other three areas. Objectively, he is constantly choosing of his free will to do sweeping and cleaning a spill. I know based on his natural development, his age, and the fact that he ihas mastered sweeping and cleaning a spill that he should be moving onto more complex practical life activities such as washing a table or flower arranging. When I've tried to present them, he has shied away, which I observe is different than the enthusiasm he had when I presented sweeping and cleaning a spill.

 

There are two general routes that could be taken here. First, I could attempt to make sweeping and cleaning a spill more complex, such as having him sweep/clean progressively more of the floor. Second, I could break down the more complex activities into smaller "cycles of activity." For instance, instead of presenting the entire activitiy of cleaning a table, I could just present the setup and pack up, then invite the child to just do that. Ideally, he would on his own begin to wash the table eventually as he would likely have seen others do it. I could then step in at a later date to present table washing formally. Another aspect to rely on is the 30+ other children in the casa. Even just inviting him to observe other children accomplish these more complex tasks could give him the confidence to ask me to present more complex activities to him, or, ideally, ask another child to present that activity to him. It honestly more so depends on the children and the environment than the guide to how this would be approached.

 

Hopefully this answered your question and wasn't too rambly.

[HumbleThinker]

Following. Attended Montessori myself and had kids in one for 7 years combined across kids. But I am not adept at explaining it to others as I haven't read much of the theory (although I'm starting to!)

 

That's great! If you have any questions while you are reading (or even when you aren't), please let me know. I'd personally recommend either starting with The Absorbent Mind or Education for a New World. Education and Peace is also a good one if you want to know the societal goals Montessori sees for education.

[wapiti]

The principle most appropriate here is to "meet the child where he is." In Montessori, such a behavior is termed a deviation because it is not the normal behavior of a child who has developed optimally. As you can guess, just about every child has deviations coming into a Montessori casa because none's environment is perfect (YET!). So this behavior is seen as having a cause from somewhere in the child's environment. The specific "cure" for this behavior will be based on observation, but the general principle is "work is the cure," for work leads to concentration, which eventually leads to normalization, which eventually leads to the cessation of deviations and increase of joy, refreshment, work ethic, etc.

 

 

 

Thank you for your detailed response.  Thinking through these things is an excellent exercise.  My caution would be that often issues arise not from the environment but from within the child - they really do come with their own unique packages of intellectual and emotional strengths and weaknesses.  The Montessori way of thinking has been very useful for our 2e-ish family, and while it's what I'd consider "outside the box," I have seen teachers get stuck "inside-the-Montessori-box." That would be my term for their adherence to "follow the child" in a manner that is too literal IMO as opposed to "following the child" as addressing the child's unique needs, even if those needs deviate from those of a more typical child.

 

I really like this thought of the child's "concentration" as a goal, as that is one way to describe what was lacking in this not-so-hypothetical underachieving child's classroom activity back in, say, early el.  I totally agree that work - especially of an appropriate level of challenge - is the cure if you can coax them into it one way or another.

 

Even just inviting him to observe other children accomplish these more complex tasks could give him the confidence to ask me to present more complex activities to him, or, ideally, ask another child to present that activity to him. It honestly more so depends on the children and the environment than the guide to how this would be approached.

 

 The teacher's perception of the child's unique strengths and weaknesses is so critical, IMO.

[Mandy in TN]

Dauphin created a social group on this board called Montessori Education & Philosophy. Plz, add some comments there. I am the only person who has posted, so I am lonely over there. :p

 

Also, as this is a homeschool forum, most of us do not have a classroom of peers for our children to emulate; therefore, when implementing Montessori, we must be the guide and the peer group. I am just beginning my research of Montessori and am trying to find a balance between presentation to invisible and strewing, having things available in an easily accessible organized manner, and engaging with materials myself so that my child sees them being used. Could you expand on how as homeschoolers we can create a modified Montessori environment in our home?

 

Also, as a homeschooler, I am finding Montessori to be exhausting. The amount of teacher preparation to gather/ create the materials, to become familiar with how to present them and aware of where the activity is leading, and to arrange the materials in a specific dedicated place is exceedingly time consuming and somewhat overwhelming. Is there a simplified version where by particular aspects of the materials and environment can be focused on individually without implementing the whole? (ETA: and which of these is the most homeschool friendly?) Do you have any guidance for presenting material or information as far as the overriding goals as well as how to modify for a classroom of one where there will be no watching peers or guidance or encouragement of peers?

 

Thx-

Mandy

[HumbleThinker]

Thank you for your detailed response.  Thinking through these things is an excellent exercise.  My caution would be that often issues arise not from the environment but from within the child - they really do come with their own unique packages of intellectual and emotional strengths and weaknesses.  The Montessori way of thinking has been very useful for our 2e-ish family, and while it's what I'd consider "outside the box," I have seen teachers get stuck "inside-the-Montessori-box." That would be my term for their adherence to "follow the child" in a manner that is too literal IMO as opposed to "following the child" as addressing the child's unique needs, even if those needs deviate from those of a more typical child.

 

I really like this thought of the child's "concentration" as a goal, as that is one way to describe what was lacking in this not-so-hypothetical underachieving child's classroom activity back in, say, early el.  I totally agree that work - especially of an appropriate level of challenge - is the cure if you can coax them into it one way or another.

That's part of the "art of teaching" that we talk about a lot in training. A lot of the talk did revolve around, as you said, not getting "stuck "inside-the-Montessori-box." In reality, Maria Montessori spoke about using observation to do exactly what you are talking about. It's so much deeper and versatile than even many Montessori guides realize.

 

The only comment of perhaps departure I would make is that the "typical child" is the natural potential that each child can attain within a prepared environment, the "normalized child." It will look different for every child, but there will be tell-tale signs that generalize across personality differences and culture. Concentration is really the measuring stick; if the child is concentrating, then his deviated behavior will eventually disappear and what is left is his "true" or "typical" or "normalized" self.

 

Currently, five of my kids attend a Montessori school.  One of them has this underachieving/fear of failure/perfectionism issue - ok sometimes more than one LOL but mainly the one who also had bad luck of the draw with teachers at the lower and upper el levels.  This problem has probably been the most vexing issue we have encountered in the Montessori setting.  His primary teacher was fantastic - she was the one to first spot this issue when he was 4 and she actually called me up to discuss it.  She had a way with this kiddo.  Thanks to her efforts, he improved in K.  All was lost, however, with his lower el teacher who didn't teach him math much beyond the beginning of second grade, when he had already been through the materials available at that level (basically, almost all the math he did for second and third grade were various types of mad math minute tests, exactly the wrong thing for this sort of anxiety; that teacher talked a good game but the bottom line was that as long as he was performing "above average" she didn't see the concern with regard to performing closer to his ability level; nor did she recognize the anxiety as something that needed work).  He has a twin brother who has had a more perceptive teacher for lower and upper el; the brother was able to advance much further, and in the brother's case, development of strengths was immensely important in the face of his more significant weaknesses...

 

I'm sorry to hear that. I don't know much about the exact materials in elementary, but that certainly doesn't sound like a material that is following Montessori principles that I learned for the primary level. And it does sound like the guide was focused on the product alone instead of the whole child. A problem I have heard that some guides have is that they fall into a pattern of presenting without then observing the child and adapting presentations to where he is at that moment. It personally sounds to me that she was following a curriculum instead of the child, which just makes her a traditional teacher instead of a Montessori guide.

 

FWIW, observation has been a very useful tactic for a couple of my kids.  Start with the twin brother, who wasn't really speaking in his primary classroom.  An assistant noticed him observing others getting a presentation on a work that involved putting the correct number of sticks (forgot what they're called) into boxes with numbers on them.  She later set the work in front of him and he did it easily.

 

It turns out he has a lot of math talent that the Montessori materials were perfect for.  He's a very visual-spatial, backwards (context before the details) learner.  A funny example - he was having difficulty with a work that should have been easy for him (maybe something with thousands?  I can't remember).  So his teacher (sorry, we don't call them guides) instead showed him the stamp game, which he did perfectly, and which provided a context to go back and learn the other work easily, backwards from the usual sequence.  He was 4 at the time.  (This is a kiddo who began algebra 1 this past year in 5th grade, way way into the 99th percentile.)  The teacher's perception of the child's unique strengths and weaknesses is so critical, IMO.

 

 

I've heard many accounts from my trainer of just this sort of behavior. It's one of the beautiful evidences for the Absorbent Mind. And it sounds like his teacher was following the child perfectly, understanding the meaning of what he WAS doing (observing) instead of what he WASN'T doing, talking. And Montessori has a great anecdote in one of her books about a child who strangely enough attached to one of the most complex math materials then worked backwards through the rest before then beginning the "normal" progression. This is how "following the child" is supposed to be. It's supposed to be supported by all this theory we've learned and all these principles, but, in rare cases, it should lead us to break some of these principles if it is where the child is at that moment.

 

Thanks for sharing the great information about your children and Montessori experiences. 

[HumbleThinker]

Dauphin created a social group on this board called Montessori Education & Philosophy. Plz, add some comments there. I am the only person who has posted, so I am lonely over there. :p

 

Also, as this is a homeschool forum, most of us do not have a classroom of peers for our children to emulate; therefore, when implementing Montessori, we must be the guide and the peer group. I am just beginning my research of Montessori and am trying to find a balance between presentation to invisible and strewing, having things available in an easily accessible organized manner, and engaging with materials myself so that my child sees them being used. Could you expand on how as homeschoolers we can create a modified Montessori environment in our home?

 

Also, as a homeschooler, I am finding Montessori to be exhausting. The amount of teacher preparation to gather/ create the materials, to become familiar with how to present them and aware of where the activity is leading, and to arrange the materials in a specific dedicated place is exceedingly time consuming and somewhat overwhelming. Is there a simplified version where by particular aspects of the materials and environment can be focused on individually without implementing the whole? (ETA: and which of these is the most homeschool friendly?) Do you have any guidance for presenting material or information as far as the overriding goals as well as how to modify for a classroom of one where there will be no watching peers or guidance or encouragement of peers?

 

Thx-

Mandy

 

Personally, and I don't have experience with homeschool environments so take this with a grain of salt, I think you would put more work into a Montessori homeschool environment than your child would reap for a few reasons, not the least of which is the lack of a large peer group. I would probably recommend just "Montessori-ing" your house as much as you can but then have whatever other education model you wish for your child. Having tasks the child can do on his own (and with you if he wants) in every room of the house is a great start. And enticing him to do as much meaningful tasks around the house that he can with as little help from you as necessary is also a good step. Also practice just observing your child in an unobtrusive manner without interrupting his work once he is engaged. According to Montessori, this is the hardest skill for adults to learn. Get outside a lot. Have a small quantity of meaningful activities that introduce a lot of terminology (ie. animals, plants, dimension, cooking, etc.). Read and talk with your child as opposed to at or to him.

 

Howwemontessori.com is a nice blog about what you can do to Montessori your home. 

 

 

Montessori unfortunately isn't one of those models that can be broken down or simplified without essentially compromising it. After a certain point of modifying and simplifying, it would become less effective than traditional education. What that point is, I don't know. The best thing to do would simply be to observe your child, figure out what is interesting him as opposed to just occupying his time, and make small modifications in response to your observations. The two parts of his body to look at the most are his eyes and his hands. If he is sustaining eye contact while manipulating the material, he is likely concentration at least on a basic level.

 

Hopefully this was of some help. Let me know if there is anything else I can answer for you.

[Mandy in TN]

Personally, and I don't have experience with homeschool environments so take this with a grain of salt, I think you would put more work into a Montessori homeschool environment than your child would reap for a few reasons, not the least of which is the lack of a large peer group. I would probably recommend just "Montessori-ing" your house as much as you can but then have whatever other education model you wish for your child. Having tasks the child can do on his own (and with you if he wants) in every room of the house is a great start. And enticing him to do as much meaningful tasks around the house that he can with as little help from you as necessary is also a good step. Also practice just observing your child in an unobtrusive manner without interrupting his work once he is engaged. According to Montessori, this is the hardest skill for adults to learn. Get outside a lot. Have a small quantity of meaningful activities that introduce a lot of terminology (ie. animals, plants, dimension, cooking, etc.). Read and talk with your child as opposed to at or to him.

 

Howwemontessori.com is a nice blog about what you can do to Montessori your home. 

 

 

Montessori unfortunately isn't one of those models that can be broken down or simplified without essentially compromising it. After a certain point of modifying and simplifying, it would become less effective than traditional education. What that point is, I don't know. The best thing to do would simply be to observe your child, figure out what is interesting him as opposed to just occupying his time, and make small modifications in response to your observations. The two parts of his body to look at the most are his eyes and his hands. If he is sustaining eye contact while manipulating the material, he is likely concentration at least on a basic level.

 

Hopefully this was of some help. Let me know if there is anything else I can answer for you.

 

Unless you can help us understand how to better implement Montessori in a homeschool environment, you are posting on the wrong board. ;)

Mandy

[Pen]

Could you write some about Montessori in the context of learning difficulties like dyslexia, for example.

[HumbleThinker]

Could you write some about Montessori in the context of learning difficulties like dyslexia, for example.

 

I can speak somewhat about this. A huge help for those with dyslexia in Montessori is that writing is learned in cursive. Research has demonstrated that besides cursive being more developmentally appropriate for young children in general, it is especially helpful for those with dyslexia. There are a couple of reasons for this. The common reversals (b, d, p for instance) are more distinctive in cursive, so less likely to be confused. Additionally, since the majority of what is read in society is in print and the naming of letters is usually done with print letters, cursive letters can be known simply by their sound, which is more appropriate. I would imagine the tactile and muscular knowledge of each sound with the Sandpaper Letters helps as well.

 

As for learning difficulties in general, Montessori's focus on meeting the child where he is makes it adaptable for any child as long as they begin Montessori before 4, though this is a general rule. 2.5 is optimal for a primary casa. Maria Montessori actually adapted methods and materials she used in the education of those with learning/mental disabilities (or at least those perceived to have them by Roman society at the time) and led them to score on par or better than their "normal" peers on a major government exam. 

[Pen]

When I visited a Montessori school (for elementary grades), one of the things that most appealed to me was that the children had "learning contracts," but I did not learn as much about them as I would have liked.

I would like to understand more about the learning contracts.

How are they developed and implemented?

Do you have any ideas for how that could be incorporated into a home school environment?

 

I do not know how much what I saw was Montessori, and how much was one particular school. It was very small with only one class for all the  1-8 children (about 16 children in all), and besides the learning contracts the other thing that stood out to me was a peace table where the children were supposed to go to work out disputes they might have. Is a Peace Table typical or unusual? I did not see it in operation as everyone seemed to be quite peaceful and getting along fine. Can you say anything more about social and group dynamics. I know you know more about primary, but I am more interested in the older children, so if you could speak to both as well as you can, that would be appreciated.

 

The children at the school I visited seemed to be doing most of their academic work out of standard workbooks, but each at his or her own pace, I guess, with a teacher present to go to if needed.  And they had time to do projects with each other, whether that might be deciding to cook something or deciding to work on a science experiment. In this regard it seemed very much like a super expensive home school led by someone else rather than a parent, with a chance for more peer interaction and collaborative projects than in most homes. Do you think this is an accurate impression? If not, what did I miss?

[Laura Corin]

My eldest son, Calvin, attended a Montessori school for two years.  His teacher was highly experienced.  All around him, pupils were learning with their hands, deriving maths from the equipment.  It meant absolutely nothing to him - he learned very little.  Finally his teacher suggested I teach him place value, carrying and borrowing on paper over the summer holidays.  

 

Do you think there are children for whom the Montessori method just does not work?  As background: Calvin never explored with his hands.  As soon as he could talk at all, he would sit in the middle of the floor, point and say, 'Da-da?' (What's that?)  He wanted words and has continued to want words.

 

L

[wapiti]

When I visited a Montessori school (for elementary grades), one of the things that most appealed to me was that the children had "learning contracts," but I did not learn as much about them as I would have liked.

 

 

I don't know much about learning contracts.  Our school has "requirements," things the student needs to complete before moving on to other work.  It works a little differently in different classrooms.

 

Is a Peace Table typical or unusual? I did not see it in operation as everyone seemed to be quite peaceful and getting along fine. Can you say anything more about social and group dynamics. I know you know more about primary, but I am more interested in the older children, so if you could speak to both as well as you can, that would be appreciated.

 

On the dyslexia angle, adding to Humble Thinker's comments, besides the fact that Montessori materials were originally designed to serve a special needs population, also note how common it is for kids with learning issues of one sort or another to prefer a visual-spatial approach and how well many of the hands-on Montessori works serve that purpose.  

 

[HumbleThinker]

When I visited a Montessori school (for elementary grades), one of the things that most appealed to me was that the children had "learning contracts," but I did not learn as much about them as I would have liked.

I would like to understand more about the learning contracts.

How are they developed and implemented?

Do you have any ideas for how that could be incorporated into a home school environment?\

Unfortunately, I cannot say anything about how learning contracts relate to Montessori. I was trained in primary, the class before elementary, so I can only say that they do not appear to me to be in line with Montessori principles as set out by Maria Montessori. I know some Montessori schools do use them ,but unfortunately anyone can call their school Montessori and even those who are credentialed Montessori schools can make "adaptation" they feel need to occur. But perhaps there are different princples for elelementary and the second plane child that would justify using them.

 

In general though, learning contracts, or any sort of behavioral contract, can be a useful adaptation if a child has not normalized by the time they enter the second plane (ages 6-12). It does depend on both parties committing to something though, not just the child committing to do something with no cooperation on the side of the adult.

 

I do not know how much what I saw was Montessori, and how much was one particular school. It was very small with only one class for all the  1-8 children (about 16 children in all), and besides the learning contracts the other thing that stood out to me was a peace table where the children were supposed to go to work out disputes they might have. Is a Peace Table typical or unusual?

 

Montessori elementary program is separated into lower and upper and middle school being a separate class, so this school is likely just trying to implement some Montessori practices without implementing the whole method for whatever their reasons may be. A peace table is a common tactic in some Montessori and non-Montessori schools. While it works, I see it as a crutch, especially for first plane children who are capable of learning to solve problems without things like a peace table just as they don't need turn-taking props even though they can be helpful. I don't believe it is actively encouraged by AMI, Maria Montessori's own agency.

 

I did not see it in operation as everyone seemed to be quite peaceful and getting along fine. Can you say anything more about social and group dynamics. I know you know more about primary, but I am more interested in the older children, so if you could speak to both as well as you can, that would be appreciated.

 

The prime difference between first plane (those I'm trained to work with) and second plane children in this respect are that first plane children naturally desire predominantely individual work, while second plane children naturally desire predominantly group work. This is where you will find tight friendships, lots of experimentation with group dynamics, and some more risk taking behavior. And where first plane children ideally form a spontaneous social unit where the individuals unintentionally benefit the group through their work, second plane children will more actively form groups and seek a leader.

 

 

The children at the school I visited seemed to be doing most of their academic work out of standard workbooks, but each at his or her own pace, I guess, with a teacher present to go to if needed.  And they had time to do projects with each other, whether that might be deciding to cook something or deciding to work on a science experiment. In this regard it seemed very much like a super expensive home school led by someone else rather than a parent, with a chance for more peer interaction and collaborative projects than in most homes. Do you think this is an accurate impression? If not, what did I miss?

 

Workbooks aren't Montessori no matter what the level. In the first plane, the primary classroom is called a Children's House because it is supposed to be a house for children where the children learn to freely maintain and work in the environment as they wish, including cooking. This idea also extends to the elementary room, though to the best of my understanding there is more of a focus on academic areas. I can't comment too much on this school because it seems to be a school that is simply trying their best (I'm assuming) to apply a few Montessori principles given less than ideal conditions and is just using the Montessori name. This is just guessing from limited information, though, so I could be wrong.

[Ausmumof3]

Montessori interested me earlier in our homeschool journey but two things kind of got it the way. One is the huge level of prep work for materials for one kid. And the other was the clutteriness of it all. There just seems to be so many little bits. Also I think the early years focus on practical life a lot which is kind of already dealt with in the home environment. Eg my kids learn how to wipe a table by watching me and doing it... No prep needed.

 

But where do things go from there? Is it easier to implement in the primary years? How do you measure progress?

[nd293]

But where do things go from there? Is it easier to implement in the primary years? How do you measure progress?

I don't believe you can truly implement Montessori's philosophy in the home environment, although you could certainly use some of her methods or materials to teach specific subjects. Too much would be lost without the dynamics between a class full of children and the huge range of materials found in a Montessori classroom, not to mention the constant presence of a parent changing the way independence develops. And I'm not saying that having a parent around all the time is wrong, just that it is different from what Montessori envisages.

 

The 6-9 age range still uses a lot of manipulative materials. The 9-12 age group is closer to what homeschooling looks like, or at least what it was like in our family: a weekly plan and a lot of freedom to meet those goals, with teacher contact where needed. Dd fitted into the Upper Primary class seamlessly, although they did tell me after a few years that they thought that her constant chattiness must have been as a a reaction to homeschooling (you know, the lonely homeschoolers locked in the basement classroom all day) until they realised it was 'just her'.

 

We've had our ups and downs with Montessori (2 children, 2.5 years at a very traditional Montessori school, experience in 3-6, 6-9,9-12 and 12-15 age groups so far) but one thing that consistently amazes me is how well they know the individual children and their strengths and weaknesses. They measure progress as homeschoolers do, by knowing their pupils on a deeper level.

[Kerileanne99]

Okay, I have a more personal question:)

 

I have a young dd4 who will be attending a traditional Montessori (or rather call themselves that) school starting next month for summer, then in the Fall. She has been on their waiting list for 3 years, but we have always turned down a slot that arose as we only want part time...so finally, she will try it MWF mornings. She is SO social that I have high hopes, but we have plans to homeschool full time for the following Kindy year unless we see pretty much the unexpected!

 

So...questions: the primary reason we are insistent upon part-time is that dd is radically advanced in several areas. Reading, LA, and especially math and science. They have assuredly over and over that they can pull materials in for her, that tey are trained to work up to 3 grades higher, etc...but dd will be in the 3-6 age group. She can read anything put in front of her, reads advanced chapter books for fun, and is currently working through various math strands including SM 3B/4A. I do think there is something important in working through the same things she has covered already from a different perspective, but don't think it will keep her attention long. Do you think it is even feasible/realistic to expect them to work with her on this?

 

Also, she is definitely NOT what I think of as a Montessori kid! She is incredibly high-energy. When she wants to do math it is usually bouncing, spinning or swinging. She will sit in her Tripp chair, with a rubber therapy band to bounce her feet on for hours working on math...otherwise, not so much. I see her going from work to work with a basket picking up random pieces, enlisting the help of the other kids as customers, clerks, security, etc., to organize a pretend grocery store. I just know her:)

How on earth is this going to work?! I see much of this as her spirit. How will they 'normalize' this without sublimating her intense spirit and individuality?

 

Honestly, she is such a social creature that for this age I am pretty much fine with her not learning a single new academic fact. I want her to go and have fun with other kids, maybe reinforcing things from a hands-on, different perspective. It cannot be worse than the play-based preschool we sent her to 6 hrs/week last year where she developed behavior issues and learned to hide the things she does with glee at home 'because the teachers and friends don't like it.'

And last question: I have intentionally been very vague as to what she is doing at home as I want to give her new teachers a chance to see and evaluate independently. I really don't want to be pushy, but we ARE paying a lot of money to send her:). Is this too much to expect? Should I be prepared to be up front, or hang back?

[HumbleThinker]

My eldest son, Calvin, attended a Montessori school for two years.  His teacher was highly experienced.  All around him, pupils were learning with their hands, deriving maths from the equipment.  It meant absolutely nothing to him - he learned very little.  Finally his teacher suggested I teach him place value, carrying and borrowing on paper over the summer holidays.  

 

Do you think there are children for whom the Montessori method just does not work?  As background: Calvin never explored with his hands.  As soon as he could talk at all, he would sit in the middle of the floor, point and say, 'Da-da?' (What's that?)  He wanted words and has continued to want words.

 

L

 

If there are children for whom Montessori doesn't work, I don't think your son would be one of them. The only children I can think of where Montessori may not work are children who are so deviated that they cannot stay in the casa long enough for it to have an effect (I'm talking like severely violent mental issues or child abuse in their past) or children who come into a Montessori environment too old. The older the child enters the Montessori environment, the less likely it is that he will succeed because all of the pieces in the casa and into the elementary room build upon what should have occurred in the past. After a point, there will be so much adaptation needed that the child will essentially be doing what he would be doing in a traditional classroom. 

 

As for your son, just going on what you said, it is great that he wants words and has continued to be interested in that. Children in the first plane (birth-6) naturally want the names of things. "What is that?" is the definiing question of that period. Without knowing more this would just be a guess, but the guide may have been too focused on what she thought your child should have been learning at that moment instead of where he actually was at at that moment. If he wasn't exploring with his hands, how was he doing with practical life and sensorial materials? Practical life is the foundation for all movements in the other three areas and sensorial is a particularly powerful preparation for math. If I was the guide, I would also be interested in the quality of his writing with what you say about his hands.

 

The hand is the tool of the intellect and is greatly connected with mental as well as physical development. Along with wanting to know the names of things, children instinctively want to sensorially experience those things as well. I'd be curious if perhaps he became so enthralled by his sensitive period for language that it overpowered his sensitive period for the refinement of the senses. Just a guess, though.

[HumbleThinker]

Montessori interested me earlier in our homeschool journey but two things kind of got it the way. One is the huge level of prep work for materials for one kid. And the other was the clutteriness of it all. There just seems to be so many little bits. 

 

For one child, I agree absolutely.

 

Also I think the early years focus on practical life a lot which is kind of already dealt with in the home environment. Eg my kids learn how to wipe a table by watching me and doing it... No prep needed.

 

And that's exactly the point of practical life in the Montessori casa: to connect the child with not only materials he has hopefully seen in his house but also tasks that he ideally has already been doing at his house. 

 

But where do things go from there? Is it easier to implement in the primary years? How do you measure progress?

 

 

As far as materials go, primary is much easier, though still way too much prep to be worth doing for one child. In training, we have to make large binders of how to present every material in the casa. Primary has four for the four areas. If I'm not mistaken, elementary has six, and most of them are thicker than any of the albums in primary, which are already ridiculously thick.

 

The best you can do at home is to have child-sized shelves in the child's room with a limited quantity of constructive activities that match his interests and maybe a few in area you are trying to stretch his interest to. Have meaningful tasks that he can do either by himself or with minimal help from you in every room of the house (aka practical life). Anything that has specific terminology (even just dusting cloth or drying cloth as opposed to just cloth, rag, towel, etc.) is great. Try to give him activities to choose that can be related to his environment, especially with terminology.

 

And measuring is pretty much based on concentration. Is he sustaining eye contact and hand contact? Are his movements becoming more refined? Is he repeating the activity? Is he independently choosing it? Is he choosing a different activity when he is done, does he start running around, does he come to you for what to do next, etc.? There are other things to look for such as the positioning/grip of his hand, how well he's walking, his level of obedience, as well as more mundane academic progress, but concentration is the major thing you're looking for. Paradoxically, I've observed greater concentration and normalization in casas with 30+ children than ones with 15-25 children, so I'm not exactly sure how well concentration would be achieved in a room of one. My trainer said that the most normalized class she had ever observed was a casa in Africa in some kind of camp setting with 50-some children and one or two adults. Unfortunately we would never be able to do that in the US or anywhere that I know of in at least Western Europe.

[Laura Corin]

 If I was the guide, I would also be interested in the quality of his writing with what you say about his hands.

 

The hand is the tool of the intellect and is greatly connected with mental as well as physical development. Along with wanting to know the names of things, children instinctively want to sensorially experience those things as well. I'd be curious if perhaps he became so enthralled by his sensitive period for language that it overpowered his sensitive period for the refinement of the senses. Just a guess, though.

 

You are absolutely correct - his handwriting was not and is not good.  The problem that the teacher was encountering, I think, was that Calvin was very bright but his physical skills were delayed.  Of course, the hands-on Montessori work was brilliant for developing his fine motor skills, but because of his developmental stage the connection with his brain was not happening.

 

In the end, we pulled him out of Montessori after two years when we moved house, I home educated him for seven years, working orally at his intellectual level whilst getting advice from an OT, and his motors skills finally, mostly, caught up in the end.

 

What do you think the teacher should have done?

 

L

[snowbeltmom]

Okay, I have a more personal question:)

 

I have a young dd4 who will be attending a traditional Montessori (or rather call themselves that) school starting next month for summer, then in the Fall. She has been on their waiting list for 3 years, but we have always turned down a slot that arose as we only want part time...so finally, she will try it MWF mornings. She is SO social that I have high hopes, but we have plans to homeschool full time for the following Kindy year unless we see pretty much the unexpected!

 

So...questions: the primary reason we are insistent upon part-time is that dd is radically advanced in several areas. Reading, LA, and especially math and science. They have assuredly over and over that they can pull materials in for her, that tey are trained to work up to 3 grades higher, etc...but dd will be in the 3-6 age group. She can read anything put in front of her, reads advanced chapter books for fun, and is currently working through various math strands including SM 3B/4A. I do think there is something important in working through the same things she has covered already from a different perspective, but don't think it will keep her attention long. Do you think it is even feasible/realistic to expect them to work with her on this?

 

Also, she is definitely NOT what I think of as a Montessori kid! She is incredibly high-energy. When she wants to do math it is usually bouncing, spinning or swinging. She will sit in her Tripp chair, with a rubber therapy band to bounce her feet on for hours working on math...otherwise, not so much. I see her going from work to work with a basket picking up random pieces, enlisting the help of the other kids as customers, clerks, security, etc., to organize a pretend grocery store. I just know her:)

How on earth is this going to work?! I see much of this as her spirit. How will they 'normalize' this without sublimating her intense spirit and individuality?

 

Honestly, she is such a social creature that for this age I am pretty much fine with her not learning a single new academic fact. I want her to go and have fun with other kids, maybe reinforcing things from a hands-on, different perspective. It cannot be worse than the play-based preschool we sent her to 6 hrs/week last year where she developed behavior issues and learned to hide the things she does with glee at home 'because the teachers and friends don't like it.'

And last question: I have intentionally been very vague as to what she is doing at home as I want to give her new teachers a chance to see and evaluate independently. I really don't want to be pushy, but we ARE paying a lot of money to send her:). Is this too much to expect? Should I be prepared to be up front, or hang back?

In my experience, a lot is going to depend on the teacher. How long has the teacher been in the classroom?  Does she have Montessori certification? (I don't know what the official certification is called.)  What is her reputation as a teacher?

 

I found it difficult to determine exactly what my son worked on during the day because very little work came home.  My son had an amazing teacher during his Children House years.  She brought material down from the Lower Elementary classroom and he loved going to school every day.  I was not involved in what happened in the classroom at all.  I trusted the teacher to keep him challenged, and she did.

 

When my son moved up to the Lower Elementary classroom, I expected the classroom teacher would operate in the same manner.  It wasn't until a few months into the school year, when my son told me he didn't want to go to school, that I realized something was amiss.  I asked for a meeting with the teacher and she told me that my son had worked through the material in the Lower Elementary and she didn't know enough about the Upper Elementary material to help him.  At that point I had to become the "pushy" mom, which this teacher did not like.  My son did end up being challenged during the day, but it took a lot of effort on my part during the entire year to make sure that happened.  It was not fun.  The following year he moved into the Upper Elementary classroom, and he began homeschooling at age 11.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[HumbleThinker]

Okay, I have a more personal question:)

 

I have a young dd4 who will be attending a traditional Montessori (or rather call themselves that) school starting next month for summer, then in the Fall. She has been on their waiting list for 3 years, but we have always turned down a slot that arose as we only want part time...so finally, she will try it MWF mornings. She is SO social that I have high hopes, but we have plans to homeschool full time for the following Kindy year unless we see pretty much the unexpected!

 

So...questions: the primary reason we are insistent upon part-time is that dd is radically advanced in several areas. Reading, LA, and especially math and science. They have assuredly over and over that they can pull materials in for her, that tey are trained to work up to 3 grades higher, etc...but dd will be in the 3-6 age group. She can read anything put in front of her, reads advanced chapter books for fun, and is currently working through various math strands including SM 3B/4A. I do think there is something important in working through the same things she has covered already from a different perspective, but don't think it will keep her attention long. Do you think it is even feasible/realistic to expect them to work with her on this?

 

It's the sort of thing where you and the guide are not really going to know until she gets there. Montessori language materials for instance go in depth into reading for meaning and analysis of language, so whe may be interested in that or she may not. The mat materials go into the millions in the last materials. Practical life is always an area that can be easily adapted for each child. And the sensorial materials tend to go beyond anything you find in a non-Montessori environment for the refinement of the senses. I don't know how much she is going to get out of it, though, just going three days a week.

 

Also, she is definitely NOT what I think of as a Montessori kid! She is incredibly high-energy. When she wants to do math it is usually bouncing, spinning or swinging. She will sit in her Tripp chair, with a rubber therapy band to bounce her feet on for hours working on math...otherwise, not so much. I see her going from work to work with a basket picking up random pieces, enlisting the help of the other kids as customers, clerks, security, etc., to organize a pretend grocery store. I just know her:)

How on earth is this going to work?! I see much of this as her spirit. How will they 'normalize' this without sublimating her intense spirit and individuality?

 

It may not work given that she is 4 (and even less likely the more months she is past 4), but she would likely receive a heavy focus in practical life to entice her to develop the will to control her movements. This is decidedly different that her having her will substituted by the adult's, which is what Montessori explicitly spoke against. The highest level of obedience in the most normalized child is essentially the voluntary "submission" of their will to the adult; they are CHOOSING to obey and have developed the will to successfully carry it out. At this point, they have developed discipline in the truest sense by becoming a disciple of the guide's. Doing so brings them great joy and they even anticipate the needs of the guide and the group before being asked.

 

Practical life would also help ground her in reality, which is necessary for concentrated work with the sensorial and math materials. If she likes being a store clerk, there are collective exercises with the golden beads that are gotten from the store and the four math operations. Imagination is great and is one of the tendencies natural to all humans, but if it isn't grounded in reality it can deviate us from our potential. Imagination is catered to in spades in the Montessori environment, just not in the traditional fantasy play that most people even in Montessori's time thought was appropriate.

 

Honestly, she is such a social creature that for this age I am pretty much fine with her not learning a single new academic fact. I want her to go and have fun with other kids, maybe reinforcing things from a hands-on, different perspective. It cannot be worse than the play-based preschool we sent her to 6 hrs/week last year where she developed behavior issues and learned to hide the things she does with glee at home 'because the teachers and friends don't like it.'

And last question: I have intentionally been very vague as to what she is doing at home as I want to give her new teachers a chance to see and evaluate independently. I really don't want to be pushy, but we ARE paying a lot of money to send her:). Is this too much to expect? Should I be prepared to be up front, or hang back?

 

Academics is at best the secondary focus of the Montessori approach. Normalization is far and away the primary focus. Montessori is a lot of fun, but fun doesn't have to mean just fantasy play and bare socializing. Children naturally find what we would call work fun. If they aren't having fun, it's probably because we are forcing them under the mistaken belief that we need to prepare them for when they are forced to do work they don't want to do like their miserable parents/teachers (at the risk of being hyperbolic). Or there is just a mismatch between the activity and their current interests.

 

But there is also a difference between fun in the low, purely entertaining sense, and fun in the high, truly satisfying sense. When one's needs are met by work, this is high fun. But when one's impulses, which aren't natural but have been learned, are fed, this is low fun. It's one of the distinctions that guides have to learn to make during training. We "follow the child," but we're following their needs and natural inerests, not their impulses. The guide may talk about these points in more detail as well.

 

To answer your last question, I would be as upfront as the guide wants you to be. If she asks you a question about her, answer it sincerely. But if she doesn't ask about something, she may not be ready for that information yet. She may want to make her own observations before being given some pieces of information. Other than that, share or hold back as you feel appropriate.

[HumbleThinker]

You are absolutely correct - his handwriting was not and is not good.  The problem that the teacher was encountering, I think, was that Calvin was very bright but his physical skills were delayed.  Of course, the hands-on Montessori work was brilliant for developing his fine motor skills, but because of his developmental stage the connection with his brain was not happening.

 

In the end, we pulled him out of Montessori after two years when we moved house, I home educated him for seven years, working orally at his intellectual level whilst getting advice from an OT, and his motors skills finally, mostly, caught up in the end.

 

What do you think the teacher should have done?

 

L

 

It's hard to say specially, so I'll speak generally here. In the first plane (birth -6), there is a rather specific period where the child is most sensitive to all the indirect preparations for writing that are in the Children's House. A good majority of the practical life activities indirectly prepare for writing by having the child perform circular motion, left-to-right orientation, practicing lightness of touch, etc. Some of the early sensorial materials, especially the tactile materials, indirectly prepare for writing as well. All of these indirect preparations ideally first culminate in the Metal Insets, the most direct preparation for writing at ~3.5 years. If the indirect preparations are not in place or Metal Insets are not emphasized properly or at the right time, the child will not have optimal handwriting when he explodes into writing. At this point, there is a group of supplementary materials that are more traditional in nature that directly assist with refining certain aspects of writing such as size, consistency, connecting, etc.

 

Beyond this, there's not much that I can think of that the guide could have done. 

[Pen]

 

...

Workbooks aren't Montessori no matter what the level. ...

 

 

So what would kids around 4th, 5th grade level be doing for math, for example?

[kiwik]

I read a lot about Montessori methods etc when my children were little. What i took away was that Montessori was trying to compensate for the things the impoverished and neglected kids she was working with were lacking. If your children can learn life works at home with a loving parent why would they need to go to somewhere else to learn them.

[Mandy in TN]

So what would kids around 4th, 5th grade level be doing for math, for example?

Mortensen was Montessori trained. Mortensen Math takes Montessori math and expands/ extends/ explains. Ben Rogers (AKA Crewton Ramone) was trained by Mortensen, so House of Math contains a lot of Montessori. Education Unboxed borrows from House of Math who worked with Mortensen who was trained by Montessori, so it is distantly Montessori and that can be felt in the presentations. MUS was inspired by Mortensen, so it also has roots in Montessori.

 

ShillerMath is Montessori math. RightStart is Montessori influenced.

 

Montessori math is manipulative-based math where the guide will present the materials to small groups of children. After the presentation, the children can explore the manipulatives. There may be task cards with the materials that contain problems. The children would be encouraged to develop their own problems. The kids would have a journal/ notebook where they would write down whatever if necessary.

 

HTH-

Mandy

[HumbleThinker]

So what would kids around 4th, 5th grade level be doing for math, for example?

 

I don't know much in detail about the elementary level, particularly upper elementary, but in general it is more complex work with the same concepts as in primary. One example is from multiplication. By the end of the primary three years, the child will have memorized multiplication facts from 1x1 to 9x9 and be able to use this knowledge to complete a blank chart of these equations and multiply on what is essentially an abacus for products in the millions. In upper elementary, they complete this blank chart in more complex manners such as by thinking of all the equations that make a single product at once as opposed to just thinking of the products to singular equations.

 

A complete breakdown of what goes on in math in particular in each year and how it correlates to the Common Core State Standards (spoiler alert: Montessori standards blow them away) can be found http://montessoricompass.com/mathematics

[HumbleThinker]

I read a lot about Montessori methods etc when my children were little. What i took away was that Montessori was trying to compensate for the things the impoverished and neglected kids she was working with were lacking. If your children can learn life works at home with a loving parent why would they need to go to somewhere else to learn them.

The paradoxical thing for how we commonly look at education is that Montessori found that poorer children actually adapted easier to the Montessori environment better than richer children because the poorer children by virtue of having nothing were more in contact with their environment, while the richer children were given toys and such that disconnected them from their environment. But when any part of the environment is unprepared, the child is going to develop deviations, even minor ones. The prepared environment is designed primarily to normalize these deviations by virtue of virtue of it meeting the needs of the child's natural processes, thereby unifying his mind and body. When I have a bit more time, I'll relate some passages from Montessori's writings that more 

[Pen]

... But when any part of the environment is unprepared, the child is going to develop deviations, even minor ones. The prepared environment is designed primarily to normalize these deviations by virtue of virtue of it meeting the needs of the child's natural processes, thereby unifying his mind and body. When I have a bit more time, I'll relate some passages from Montessori's writings that more 

 

I don't understand this: what is meant here by "deviations" and "prepared environment"?

 

In terms of trying to express what Montessori is, make sure you explain Montessori jargon, please!

[Pen]

I don't know much in detail about the elementary level, particularly upper elementary, but in general it is more complex work with the same concepts as in primary. One example is from multiplication. By the end of the primary three years, the child will have memorized multiplication facts from 1x1 to 9x9 and be able to use this knowledge to complete a blank chart of these equations and multiply on what is essentially an abacus for products in the millions. In upper elementary, they complete this blank chart in more complex manners such as by thinking of all the equations that make a single product at once as opposed to just thinking of the products to singular equations.

 

A complete breakdown of what goes on in math in particular in each year and how it correlates to the Common Core State Standards (spoiler alert: Montessori standards blow them away) can be found http://montessoricompass.com/mathematics

 

Alas, I have only dial-up connection and it will not download for me. I guess it is a great big file with lots of information!

 

I am not really wondering how it relates to Common Core. My real question is the nuts and bolts of how they would be learning in what you would consider a real Montessori school, which from what you say, I guess the one I visited was not.  Do they only work with manipulatives, a chart, and their own journal, and no books normally?

[HumbleThinker]

I don't understand this: what is meant here by "deviations" and "prepared environment"?

 

In terms of trying to express what Montessori is, make sure you explain Montessori jargon, please!

 

Deviations are essentially any behavior that deviates from the behavior that Montessori observed was natural to the child. In laymen's terms, it is what most consider bad or naughty behavior. Deviations develop when the child absorbs aspects of a less than optimal environment, what we call a prepared environment. Given that most families do not have the means and/or knowledge to provide an optimal environment, the "best" (and I use this term very loosely) of children will invariably come into the children's house with some sort of deviation. One of the main goals of the children's house is to "cure" the deviated behavior through work in the first six years of life because it is infinitely easier to do so then than later.

 

A prepared environment is that environment that optimally meets the needs of the child's natural processes. Some aspects of a prepared environment include a trained Montessori guide, a full set of well maintained materials, independence to choose meaningful work, a high child:adult ratio (30+ to 1 or 2), an indoor-outdoor flow, and an adult(s) practiced in the science of observation. We can also talk about how to prepare the home, but it won't meet the same standards that make a truly prepared environment. And honestly, it shouldn't. There are certain aspects such as independence and observation and meaningful work that can be applied to the home environment, but the school and home environment should be distinct. This is why, for instance, children who spend too much time at school (like 12-13 hours at some well meaning All Day Montessori environments) may not develop optimally even if the school has the best prepared environment.

 

Hopefully that helps, but let me know if it does not.

[HumbleThinker]

Alas, I have only dial-up connection and it will not download for me. I guess it is a great big file with lots of information!

 

I am not really wondering how it relates to Common Core. My real question is the nuts and bolts of how they would be learning in what you would consider a real Montessori school, which from what you say, I guess the one I visited was not.  Do they only work with manipulatives, a chart, and their own journal, and no books normally?

 

As far as I know, they do not work with workbooks, but with more complex materials that they can manipulate. That isn't to say that there isn't writing in math, there's a lot of it, but it is the child's writing, not filling in blanks or anything like that. Even in the primary environment, children will write equations out for various reasons in various exercises, but they will not be sitting down and filling in blanks on pages of equations. As far as I know, this does not change in elementary.

 

Also, math takes on a more practical role as children plan "Going Outs," which are essentially research trips where a small group of children plan on going out to one or more places to learn more about a topic they are interested in with a chaperon. They can also solve math related problems within the classroom as well such as how many 2x4s they will need to construct raised beds or creating a sun dial to discover the relationship between the sun and time or a myriad other practical and academic endeavors. 

[wapiti]

So what would kids around 4th, 5th grade level be doing for math, for example?

 

This is where things get tricky, in my non-expert opinion, as it's not as though Montessori herself published what we on this board would consider a curriculum for upper el (i.e. a scope-and-sequence is not instruction).  Though certainly there are some work materials, for *some* of the more abstract topics that do not involve work materials, there is no "real Montessori" instruction AFAIK, and the upper el teacher would be expected to instruct on a number of concepts out of their heads - a rather bad assumption, IMO - or pull together other resources for a lesson.  A good example of an area that needs resources not found among Montessori materials would be word problems at both the lower and upper el levels.

[HumbleThinker]

When I have a bit more time, I'll relate some passages from Montessori's writings that more 

 

"It is a common, but false, belief that the child who has the most toys, the most help, should also be the most developed. Instead of that, the confused multitude of objects with which it is surrounded only aggravate the chaos of his mind and further discourages himâ€

 

"The immediate response by the child to the material does not take place; the teacher is perhaps discomfited by the fact that the children do not throw themselves, as she had hoped, upon the objects, choosing them according to their individual taste. If, indeed, the pupils are very poor children, this phenomenon does nearly always happen at once; but if they are well-to-do children…they are very rarely attracted at first by the stimuli presented to them."

 

I know there are others, but I am not finding them at the moment. I guess I need to organize my notes a bit better.

[Pen]

Math teaching as you describe it sounds a bit like what was happening with Waldorf--the students worked with manipulatives, made their own "Main Lesson Books" for math and everything else, etc.--no text or workbooks. (There was another aspect which was stories that were supposed to teach the math also, which may not be an aspect of Montessori, and certainly too a difference in how early academics were introduced, but at least in regard to eschewing book learning that seems to be similar. A problem with that in real practice was that often the children needed more practice than they could get that way, or needed a well thought out progression of problems that would get incrementally harder. People who make workbooks and textbooks have, at least in the better ones, spent time and effort thinking out appropriate problems and sequences of learning. It is hard for a single teacher to essentially become a curriculum maker for every single subject to be taught.

 

What about writing learning-- I mean here compositions, stories, essays, research papers, not penmanship--how is writing taught/learned? Again, I realize you mainly know about the pre-elementary years, but I am also interested in what the older children do.

 

That Hershey Farm School does look very appealing when I just looked it up!

[HumbleThinker]

Math teaching as you describe it sounds a bit like what was happening with Waldorf--the students worked with manipulatives, made their own "Main Lesson Books" for math and everything else, etc.--no text or workbooks. (There was another aspect which was stories that were supposed to teach the math also, which may not be an aspect of Montessori, and certainly too a difference in how early academics were introduced, but at least in regard to eschewing book learning that seems to be similar. A problem with that in real practice was that often the children needed more practice than they could get that way, or needed a well thought out progression of problems that would get incrementally harder. People who make workbooks and textbooks have, at least in the better ones, spent time and effort thinking out appropriate problems and sequences of learning. It is hard for a single teacher to essentially become a curriculum maker for every single subject to be taught.

 

What about writing learning-- I mean here compositions, stories, essays, research papers, not penmanship--how is writing taught/learned? Again, I realize you mainly know about the pre-elementary years, but I am also interested in what the older children do.

 

That Hershey Farm School does look very appealing when I just looked it up!

 

That's interesting. I should probably learn more about other progressive models like Waldorf since parents might be likely to ask about these. A Montessori math material is word problems, but the focus is on determining which operation would be necessary to solve the problem as opposed to solving the problem. Children will also spontaneously apply their math skills to aspects of the environment. For instance, one child I observed spontaneously decided to use the "Stamp Game" to count and write the number of beads he counted on each bead chain. He kept a running tally in his folder over two weeks.

 

When presenting each new math material and each operation within that math material, the child is progressively given more independence from the guide's instruction. Going back to the stamp game, the guide demonstrates how to make numbers with the stamps, to read the stamps, to create with the stamps after dictating, and then later how to write the numbers and perform the operations with the stamps. And this is done over weeks or months depending on the progress of the child. The general principle is to not ask the child to do something he has not been shown how to do either directly or indirectly.

 

Montessori thus gets around this problem. Additionally, for the last 100 years, Montessorians from all over the world have been observing what does and doesn't lead to concentration and the acquisition of whatever the direct and indirect aims of that material. Montessori would changes aspects of the material as seemingly minor as color and minor details of how each material is presented. The funny thing is that children more often want MORE than we give them even in Montessori. For instance, she found that children were interested in and could constructively utilize the binormial and trinomial cube, a physical representation of the bionomial and trinomial equations because they would go over to the elementary class and spontaneously utilize them after observing the elementary children utilize them. From Maria Montessori's work and the work of the Scientific Pedagogy Council and the many other Montessorians, we have devised a fixed set of materials that best bring about the normalized child.

 

In general, if supplementary activities or heavy adaptations are needed, we the guides failed in properly preparing the environment in some way. I've seen some well put together sequences, but from a Montessori perspective, this is the adult trying to find the best way to mold the child, whereas in Montessori, the focus is on the best way to allow the child to mold himself. Such activities would thus be considered supplementary. Molded the child is only necessary when the adult has failed to equip the child to mold himself via his own natural processes.

 

As for writing, children will, in Montessori terms, "explode" into writing spontaneously. In layman terms, the child suddenly writes without being directly taught to. The quality of this explosion will be dependent on the indirect preparations being met in the years prior to this explosion. Writing is "taught" before reading, the corresponding explosion coming later. Before their explosion in to writing, children will have indirectly prepared for all of the aspects necessary for writing in previous exercises. These aspects include lightness of touch, proper grip, dexterity, left to right and top to bottom orientation, circular motions (because they will be writing cursive), and order. Additionally, they will gain vocabulary and sounds from spoken language activities and the sandpaper letters respectively. The last material before the explosion into writing and the beginning of reading is the Moveable Alphabet, where the children will begin by "writing" words, and eventually stories. When they start reading this back, they are ready to begin reading instruction. Penmenship activities are supplementary activities that are only necessary if we have failed to ensure that the indirect preparation are there, such as by speeding through the practical life area. By elementary, children will be writing research papers, lengthy letters, proposals, precise recopies, complex math equations, and anything else that would be useful to them. All spontaneously.

 

Wow this post got really long. Sorry about that. Hopefully your answer is in there somewhere.

[Xahm]

As a mother of very little ones, I've been following this thread with interest and have learned a lot. Since you are preparing to share this information with other parents, may I offer the following feedback:

1. Avoid the specialized terms like "normalized.." I think I understand what you mean by them, but at first glance, it makes the whole thing sound kind of creepy to me. Like "you parents make abnormal kids and we need to fix them." I don't think that's at all what you mean, but that's how it sounds to me.

2. Find out more about upper levels. I think that a lot of us can imagine how Montessori ideas work for little ones, but I wouldn't want to put my kids into something unless I had a good idea of how it will go in the long range.

Thanks again for the thread. It has been interesting and informative.

[HumbleThinker]

As a mother of very little ones, I've been following this thread with interest and have learned a lot. Since you are preparing to share this information with other parents, may I offer the following feedback:

1. Avoid the specialized terms like "normalized.." I think I understand what you mean by them, but at first glance, it makes the whole thing sound kind of creepy to me. Like "you parents make abnormal kids and we need to fix them." I don't think that's at all what you mean, but that's how it sounds to me.

2. Find out more about upper levels. I think that a lot of us can imagine how Montessori ideas work for little ones, but I wouldn't want to put my kids into something unless I had a good idea of how it will go in the long range.

Thanks again for the thread. It has been interesting and informative.

 

Thanks for the advice. I will keep it in mind. Glad you have got something out of the discussion.

[wapiti]

FWIW, here's an interesting bit I heard today that made me think of this thread - if you should interview for a teaching position, be prepared to answer the following:  

 

How do you interpret "follow the child"?

[Pen]

That's interesting. I should probably learn more about other progressive models like Waldorf since parents might be likely to ask about these. A Montessori math material is word problems, but the focus is on determining which operation would be necessary to solve the problem as opposed to solving the problem. Children will also spontaneously apply their math skills to aspects of the environment.  They will? Always? It now sounds like "unschooling" in a group.   For instance, one child I observed spontaneously decided to use the "Stamp Game" to count and write the number of beads he counted on each bead chain. He kept a running tally in his folder over two weeks.

 

When presenting each new math material and each operation within that math material, the child is progressively given more independence from the guide's instruction. Going back to the stamp game, the guide demonstrates how to make numbers with the stamps, to read the stamps, to create with the stamps after dictating, and then later how to write the numbers and perform the operations with the stamps. And this is done over weeks or months depending on the progress of the child. The general principle is to not ask the child to do something he has not been shown how to do either directly or indirectly.

 

Montessori thus gets around this problem. Gets around what problem? Additionally, for the last 100 years, Montessorians from all over the world have been observing what does and doesn't lead to concentration and the acquisition of whatever the direct and indirect aims of that material.  What? What would concentration of a material's indirect aims mean in plain English? Montessori would changes aspects of the material as seemingly minor as color and minor details of how each material is presented.  Okay, changing the color of something is at least clear. The funny thing is that children more often want MORE than we give them even in Montessori. For instance, she found that children were interested in and could constructively utilize the binormial and trinomial cube, a physical representation of the bionomial and trinomial equations because they would go over to the elementary class and spontaneously utilize them after observing the elementary children utilize them. From Maria Montessori's work and the work of the Scientific Pedagogy Council and the many other Montessorians, we have devised a fixed set of materials that best bring about the normalized child.     Yikes! This is more off-putting than enlightening!

 

In general, if supplementary activities or heavy adaptations are needed, we the guides failed in properly preparing the environment in some way. I've seen some well put together sequences, but from a Montessori perspective, this is the adult trying to find the best way to mold the child, whereas in Montessori, the focus is on the best way to allow the child to mold himself. Such activities would thus be considered supplementary. Molded the child is only necessary when the adult has failed to equip the child to mold himself via his own natural processes. Molded? Meaning what? Is this like "normalized"? Does education or learning fit anywhere in Montessori, or is it more human some shaping system, like turning square pegs round, or something? The idea I am getting is that you somehow properly prepare the environment (whatever that means is still totally confusing and vague), and thus allow the child to educate him or herself, except that there isn't actually any education, it is actually normalizing and molding. 

 

As for writing, children will, in Montessori terms, "explode" into writing spontaneously. In layman terms, the child suddenly writes without being directly taught to. The quality of this explosion will be dependent on the indirect preparations being met in the years prior to this explosion. Writing is "taught" before reading, the corresponding explosion coming later. Before their explosion in to writing, children will have indirectly prepared for all of the aspects necessary for writing in previous exercises. These aspects include lightness of touch, proper grip, dexterity, left to right and top to bottom orientation, circular motions (because they will be writing cursive), and order. Additionally, they will gain vocabulary and sounds from spoken language activities and the sandpaper letters respectively. The last material before the explosion into writing and the beginning of reading is the Moveable Alphabet, where the children will begin by "writing" words, and eventually stories. When they start reading this back, they are ready to begin reading instruction. Penmenship activities are supplementary activities that are only necessary if we have failed to ensure that the indirect preparation are there, such as by speeding through the practical life area. By elementary, children will be writing research papers, lengthy letters, proposals, precise recopies, complex math equations, and anything else that would be useful to them. All spontaneously. Is this, that they will do all of these things and do them all spontaneously, real, or is it the hope but that in reality some of the children do not do all those things spontaneously and either need to be directed that way or else simply do not do them? Or do the children for whom this does not fit well drop out to go into other schools?

 

What is the comparison between number of children starting out at the pre-elementary levels and completing elementary, middle, or secondary school levels? From this description, I would guess that it is not going to work for a large number and will result in a high attrition rate as the grades progress upward.

 

Wow this post got really long. Sorry about that. Hopefully your answer is in there somewhere.

 

 

I found this hard to understand, to be honest. I am not sure if it is me; or that it is full of Montessori-ese jargon and references to things that I know nothing about, like math stamps or binomial and trinomial cubes, "Moveable Alphabet" and so on; or if English is not your first language; or some combination of these; or even something else entirely.

 

And all the molding and normalizing language also to me seems kind of creepy. I had a more positive image of Montessori prior to this language being used.

[dauphin]

Regarding your question about attrition - it has been my experience that the numbers decrease as age increases. This is due, in part, to there not being a Montessori Middle School or High School "program;" and so (many? I don't know percentages) Montessori schools only enroll students up through upper el, or perhaps a Montessori-inspired Middle School. If you are going to have to move your child back into a mainstream/traditional educational setting after Montessori, I can understand (as a parent) why some might be inclined to make that transition at some of the natural break-points (primary to elementary, lower el to upper el) and earlier rather than later (the more time you spend in Montessori, I think, the less your educational preparation "looks like" others').  

 

 

 

 

[Nart]

I read a lot about Montessori methods etc when my children were little. What i took away was that Montessori was trying to compensate for the things the impoverished and neglected kids she was working with were lacking. If your children can learn life works at home with a loving parent why would they need to go to somewhere else to learn them.

After researching Montessori I took away the same idea. The deal breaker for me is that Montessori discourages pretend play. Maria Montessori noticed kids liked playing house so she thought instead of pretending to play house, she would develop a program where kids could actually polish, practice pouring, set the table, etc. That was great 100 years ago. Recent research is showing how important sustained pretend play is and how kids who engage in sustained pretend play tend to develop better executive functioning as compared to kids who don't engage in sustained pretend play. When I visited a Montessori preschool I was told there was a right and a wrong way of playing with the materials. So if a kid picked up a block and pretend it was a phone that would not be allowed. One of the benefits of homeschooling is that kids have the time and freedom to be creative and engage in sustained pretend play. One of my favorite things to hear is my 5 year old and 7 year old talking to each other when they are pretend playing ("hey, bro, let's pretend that this (points to under the table)is our cave and we have to survive and these (cuisinnaire rods) are the traps we are going to set to let us know if a predator comes.....")

[HumbleThinker]

FWIW, here's an interesting bit I heard today that made me think of this thread - if you should interview for a teaching position, be prepared to answer the following:  

 

I think that was actually one of the questions I was asked in at least one of my interviews. It's definitely a really important concept to grasp for a Montessori guide.

[HumbleThinker]

I found this hard to understand, to be honest. I am not sure if it is me; or that it is full of Montessori-ese jargon and references to things that I know nothing about, like math stamps or binomial and trinomial cubes, "Moveable Alphabet" and so on; or if English is not your first language; or some combination of these; or even something else entirely.

 

And all the molding and normalizing language also to me seems kind of creepy. I had a more positive image of Montessori prior to this language being used.

 

Oh I'm sure it is my fault for being too wordy and using too much jargon. The basis of "deviations" and "normalization" in Montessori is that humans develop both physically and mentally by set processes that can be observed. This is saying the same thing as pointing out that flowers develop by set processes. Through her observations, and the continual observations of Montessorians in the future, the "normalized child" has been seen as simply what the child will become when these processes are not obstructed. She observed that these processes operate optimally when the child is connected to and working within his environment. This is saying the same as pointing out that flowers grow best in optimal soil conditions. Thus, it is the child who is constructing himself by their natural processes acting upon the environment.

 

Yes there will be personality differences, but these differences will be present alongside the normalized child. If any behaviors that were considered "personality differences" fall away, then it can be assumed that these were caused by deviations and not natural development.

 

And through everyone's observations, the materials that lead to concentration, which is necessary for normalization, were fine-tuned. By focusing on observation, the child's natural processes, and how the environment supports these in excruciating detail, Montessori is truly the science of education. And this makes perfect sense given that Montessori was originally a doctor.

 

The stamp game is simply a math material whereby the child can make numbers and perform the four operations with "stamps" that are just color-coded squares with 1, 10, 100, and 1000 on them.

 

I'll try to answer you in-text concerns quickly down here. I'm not sure what "unschooling" is, but if the child's interests are being followed and concentration fostered, yes they will almost certainly want to apply what they have learned in any area, math or otherwise, in practical ways such as the example I gave. The problem Montessori gets around was this one that you brought up: "A problem with that in real practice was that often the children needed more practice than they could get that way or needed a well thought out progression of problems that would get incrementally harder." This has been observed not to be necessary if the child is free to follow his interests and the progression of materials is presented properly at the right times. 

 

Concentration is pretty much what it sounds like: a sustained focus on an activity that comes from it aligning with the child's interests, which come from their natural processes. At it's most powerful, concentrating children have been observed repeating an activity 40+ times. There's a difference between interest and impulse, but I'll only get into that if you want me to. I'll give you an example of direct and indirect aims from an activity, in this case Dusting: "Direct Aim: To develop coordination of movement, independence, and concentration. Indirect Aim: Care of the environment. Indirect preparation for writing and reading." Any aspect of the materials that would get in the way of the child accomplishing these and concentrating would be changed. Hopefully that helps. 

 

I think I've answered your questions about what I mean by mold and normalization above, but let me know if you feel I have not. The short answer is that the child is doing it himself by connecting to the environment through work. Education in Montessori terms is different than education as traditionally understood, even in most progressive models. Intellectual and even social development as it is normally understood is at best secondary. Of primary concern is concentration; all else will fall into place after that. This can be seen where she is speaking of the order between concentration and character development: â€œThe development of character comes after the children have begun to concentrate—because there is no character without personality. We cannot develop a character in a capricious, disorderly, inattentive, person†Thus the child must be gotten "back on track" so to speak before any major intellectual or social development can take place. A few aspects of a prepared environment in general are that it has a full set of Montessori materials that are maintained, there is freedom for independent, constructive choice, that it is ordered, a mixed age grouping, and that there is observation occurring.

 

 If the child has developed naturally in the first plane of development (simply birth-6 years of age), and his new set of needs of met in the second plane (6-12), then yes he will do these things spontaneously. If the child has some really big trauma in his past, perhaps even in ideal conditions he will still need time to completely normalize in elementary, but in general children will be normalized by the time they enter elementary in the ideal Montessori environment. Of course there will be prompting and presentations by the guide as in primary, but the child will be much more willing to follow-up independently than the first plane child. This is of course to the best of my knowledge since my training is primarily focused on 3-6. 

 

The ideal Montessori environment is 30-40+ children with a guide and (sometimes) an assistant. Obviously in America, our laws are such that there will have to be an assistant. One of the many paradoxes that people encounter when studying and observing Montessori is that the more children there are the better. To keep it short, the children begin educating each other directly through giving presentations to younger ones that they have already been given and indirectly simply be allowing the younger ones to observe their activities. And the lower the adult influence is felt in the classroom, the more independent the children will feel they can be within the limits set by the adult and reinforced by the oldest children in the classroom. This is the reason why Montessori classrooms have a three year age range and is important that a balance between all these ages is kept. Attrition is a problem, particularly in the 3rd year of primary when parents want to put their child in free, pubic kindergarten. 

 

I know this is long, but I wanted to at least give a sentence or two to all of your questions and concerns without being so brief that it just causes more miscommunication.

[HumbleThinker]

Regarding your question about attrition - it has been my experience that the numbers decrease as age increases. This is due, in part, to there not being a Montessori Middle School or High School "program;" and so (many? I don't know percentages) Montessori schools only enroll students up through upper el, or perhaps a Montessori-inspired Middle School. If you are going to have to move your child back into a mainstream/traditional educational setting after Montessori, I can understand (as a parent) why some might be inclined to make that transition at some of the natural break-points (primary to elementary, lower el to upper el) and earlier rather than later (the more time you spend in Montessori, I think, the less your educational preparation "looks like" others').  

 

Depending on the area, there are accredited Montessori Middle School and High School programs, but they certainly are not as widespread as primary or elementary programs (YET!). Currently, the fastest growth area is Middle and High School programs, so perhaps there will be one in your area soon! :)

[HumbleThinker]

After researching Montessori I took away the same idea. The deal breaker for me is that Montessori discourages pretend play. Maria Montessori noticed kids liked playing house so she thought instead of pretending to play house, she would develop a program where kids could actually polish, practice pouring, set the table, etc. That was great 100 years ago. Recent research is showing how important sustained pretend play is and how kids who engage in sustained pretend play tend to develop better executive functioning as compared to kids who don't engage in sustained pretend play. When I visited a Montessori preschool I was told there was a right and a wrong way of playing with the materials. So if a kid picked up a block and pretend it was a phone that would not be allowed. One of the benefits of homeschooling is that kids have the time and freedom to be creative and engage in sustained pretend play. One of my favorite things to hear is my 5 year old and 7 year old talking to each other when they are pretend playing ("hey, bro, let's pretend that this (points to under the table)is our cave and we have to survive and these (cuisinnaire rods) are the traps we are going to set to let us know if a predator comes.....")

 

You may be interested in reading some of the research by Angeline Lillard who has been researching the differences and the different effects of "imaginitive play" vs. play in the Montessori environment, which there is indeed a lot of. An example is Playful Learning and Montessori Education. Not sure if you have access to journal articles, such as through a university, but if you do, her work is pretty interesting even if you don't agree with her conclusions. 

 

As far as Montessori's decision goes, in her first casa in Rome, she actually had toys and Montessori materials in the casa. In very short time, the children independently utilized the materials and ceased choosing to play with the toys, leading her to take them out of the classroom. There is a lot of play in the Montessori environment, some of it indistinguishable between traditional ideas of play and some of it much more different. Take baking for instance. A child could pretend to bake a cake or actually bake one. If you observe him, he will be doing the same movements with the same or more enthusiasm, but the child with real materials will have produced a real cake and his movements will be much more refined that the child who simply pretended to bake a cake. This goes for pretty much every material in the casa. In summary, the energies that a child is working out in pretend play are simply channeled in, what Montessorians believe, a much more developmentally appropriate manner that leads to better outcomes.

 

ETA: There are many ways to use the materials, but some are constructive and some are not. The constructive uses are those leading to concentration, so even if the teacher has not shown how to combine the blocks of the brown stair, pink tower, and red rods, the child is free to do this. Not only will he likely be concentrating, the relationship between those three sets of materials is a very important discovery. Pretending it is a phone is not constructive. What Montessori observed is that when the child's imagination is grounded in reality, he develops much better, concentrates more, and moves further on the path of normalization, which is the natural cessation of behaviors generally considered negative and the increase of behaviors generally considered positive.