"Most teens"*here* do not work*....

[Joan in GE]

or own a car, or even drive....
 

First caveat -this is my hypothesis from what I've observed around here and in neighboring France....(I'm happy to adjust it accordingly)
 

Definitions:
 

*Most teens - that are on the university track in Switzerland or just in high school in France (as they go til 18 yo)
 

*Here - during the school year in Switzerland and France
 

*Do not work part time or even have volunteer jobs - in the university track group of students....

 

 

BUT in Switzerland, as I was partly defining by saying in the university track, there are apprenticeships which start at about 16 yo...Those students don't go to regular high schools - instead they work part time and go to school a couple of days a week or work several weeks then go to school for a couple of weeks...Then there are also schools where they will have to do an internship/stage for half a year in some kind of job...
 

So I'm really trying to talk about university bound high school age students as most (as far as I can see - though I'm willing to change my opinion if others present otherwise) are not holding parttime jobs on the side, nor are they doing volunteer work....during the school year. And even during the summer, in Switzerland I don't see kids working the whole summer long. They might do a two week 'stage' somewhere, or one month doing something....In the restaurants, it tends to be adults doing the serving - adults who do that their whole lives and get paid a normal wage (tips are just a little bit extra, not the main part of the income).

 

Here the driving age is 18 yo, unless your parents can afford a car which will be set at 45 km/hour (about 30 mi/hr)....so that is for the few really rich kids....I think this is a huge difference in time expenditure compared to the US...But I know in the US with suburbs being so poorly served by public transport, extra curriculars (which aren't part of school here, eg competitive sports aren't organized by the school), etc, it ends up being very handy for parents when the young can drive themselves....
 

I got thinking about this from the thread on the General Ed board about International education - thinking about time involved in going to and from the job, distraction of the job, etc....and time to learn foreign languages....do science, etc....what are the other factors that can have a huge effect on available time for studies.......

 

If this has already been discussed please link me to the thread - I know I've been absent a lot....

 

[regentrude]

Same in Germany.

Driving age used to be 18 (now 17 with some restrictions), cars are very expensive (much more tan in the US). Public transit makes driving less necessary, and children are accustomed to using public transportation across big cities since 5th grade.

Summer break from school is only 6 weeks; they have several additional 1-2 week beaks throughout the school year.

 

Teens are engaged in outside activities like sports or music, which are not associated with schools.

The volunteer culture is generally different; it plays much less of a role for adults too (part of the reason is that many things done by volunteers in the US are tax paid services).

Some teens have summer jobs, typically summer camps or seasonal work. Very few teens hold jobs during the school year. It is culturally not encouraged; the student's school is considered his "job".

[regentrude]

I can not answer your poll for my kids, since you have no option for "do not work" during the summer.

 

[Joan in GE]

I just thought of that as you were posting - now it's an option :-)

 

[Joan in GE]

One of the issues here, a rural area,  is the school schedule.  The local high schools are not offering enough academic electives to fill the schedules of college bound students...so if they have a car, they can leave early or enter late instead of hanging around for 4 study halls. Neither school nor public transportation is offered for students dual enrolled and taking classes on a college campus, and 16 year old teen drivers' carpooling is limited due to the graduated licensing laws.

 

I can see the problem....my db was saying that if students need tutoring, they don't always get it due to various excuses - job after school when teachers will offer help, no transport later, etc...and it's a school in the countryside....I think this is a land use problem and perhaps a conspiracy by the car companies - just joking - but really - life is so different when everything is closer together and kids can bike to school or take public transport...

 

[MysteryJen]

I am not sure how to answer the poll. My ds1 worked during the year and summers (though only part-time, except for one summer, which was 29 hours a week). It is an extremely flexible job and he was able to take time off for the occasional trip.

 

dd1 is on track for a DI swimming scholarship (certainly partial, and we have no idea where she will end up-we know the odds, but this is all she wants), so she has no time to do anything other than swim/school. It is unlikely she will work at all.

 

ds2 is only 14, but should be lifeguarding next summer. I anticipate that he will work.

 

No one has a car.

[regentrude]

My DD has worked 4-5 hrs/week during the school year.

None of my kids work during the summer. We usually travel part of the summer and do some school.

 

Keep in mind that "volunteering" for many US college-bound teens is seen as almost mandatory, for several reasons.  Several high schools here have required "Community Service" hours that teens must log, especially the parochial schools.  I had a disagreement with a babysitter, who didn't want to take any money, because she was desperate to get enough volunteer hours for her school before the term ended. I think IB does the same -- is this true internationally?   Personally, I find it distasteful that volunteer hours must be scrupulously written down, logged and counted.

 

Also, I think many students here view volunteering and working as important experiences to put down on a college application, and feel that candidates without such experiences are less likely to be accepted into college. Many view this as their "hook", which they are told is key to being admitted. From what I've read, Europe college entrance isn't predicated on work or volunteer experience.

[regentrude]

. From what I've read, Europe college entrance isn't predicated on work or volunteer experience.

 

That is correct. In many European countries, it has absolutely no bearing on college admittance.

 

[elegantlion]

My son would work this summer if he could. I live in a town of about 12 thousand people and few jobs are available to teens. The nearest bigger cities are 30 minutes away. He does not drive yet and there is no public transportation here or between cities. I would prefer ds not work during school, but would allow it at this point (he has two more years of high school). He volunteers by helping  my elderly parents - not what some would consider volunteer work, but the time together is more valuable to him and them than any other volunteer activity would be. 

[Cera]

I don't have a college bound high school kid but I do employ a college bound high school kid.  She has worked one or two days a week after school babysitting my kids (generally 4-6 hours per day).  She watches them from 4pm until I get home, putting them in bed by 8 (so she could study after that).  I give her my schedule at the beginning of every school semester and she adds it to her calendar so she knows quite far in advance when she will be working.  She also has a volunteer job at a local childrens museum 2 afternoons a week during the school year and 5 days a week during the summer.  She does have a car but it is a necessity for her if she wants to participate in anything because we live in a rural area with no public transportation.

[Harriet Vane]

My dd is university-bound. So far, she hasn't had much time to work between studies and things like Speech Club or sports (fencing). There were a few years that she babysat a lot, which worked well because it wasn't a hard and fast schedule. Since moving, though, no one here knows us well and there haven't been as many opportunities for babysitting.

 

We are hoping she can work part-time in the coming year, but concerned that we will run into the same time crunch that we have thus far. She has a very demanding workload academically and will be focusing a lot of time on fencing and on speech next year.

 

When I was in high school, at an academically-challenging college-prep private school, I had to work to pay for school. I had a full, college-prep course load, and played basketball, and was heavily involved in church activities, and also held a part-time job. I was insanely busy and often very, very short on sleep. For my own children, I would rather they do what it takes academically and get enough sleep, so a job has been a lower priority.

[Joan in GE]

I am not sure how to answer the poll. My ds1 worked during the year and summers (though only part-time, except for one summer, which was 29 hours a week). It is an extremely flexible job and he was able to take time off for the occasional trip.

 

dd1 is on track for a DI swimming scholarship (certainly partial, and we have no idea where she will end up-we know the odds, but this is all she wants), so she has no time to do anything other than swim/school. It is unlikely she will work at all.

 

ds2 is only 14, but should be lifeguarding next summer. I anticipate that he will work.

 

No one has a car.

 

Sorry!

 

Ideally people could vote for each child...how to reconcile this..

 

Perhaps vote the average? With three children that's easier than with two...Not sure what people should do for two children who have opposite paths, ie one works and the other doesn't...perhaps give a composite of their ideal?

 

ETA - perhaps vote for the oldest?

[maize]

In France, twenty years ago at least, college bound students did not generally work or volunteer outside of school, and extracurriculars were very limited. A student who wanted to study something like music in a serious manner would attend a school oriented towards music, otherwise there just wasn't much time. School hours were 9:00-5:00, with many hours of homework each week.

[Crimson Wife]

It's hard for teens to find paid jobs these days because a lot of the jobs that were commonly held by teens back when DH and I were in high school are now held by adult immigrants.

 

I can totally understand why the restaurants, stores, landscaping services, etc. prefer to hire adult immigrants over native-born teens, but at the same time, I worry that the practice is furthering the split between the "two Americas". Holding down an unglamorous, minimum wage job as a teen flipping burgers or mowing lawns or bagging groceries or whatever used to help avoid or at least reduce the entitlement attitude I see so prevalent among teens and 20somethings today.

 

A lot of foreign countries have a mandatory national service requirement so even if their teens don't work or volunteer during high school, they still have that experience of having to do grunt work in their late teens or early 20's.

[Joan in GE]

Keep in mind that "volunteering" for many US college-bound teens is seen as almost mandatory, for several reasons.  Several high schools here have required "Community Service" hours that teens must log, especially the parochial schools.  I had a disagreement with a babysitter, who didn't want to take any money, because she was desperate to get enough volunteer hours for her school before the term ended. I think IB does the same -- is this true internationally?   Personally, I find it distasteful that volunteer hours must be scrupulously written down, logged and counted.

 

Also, I think many students here view volunteering and working as important experiences to put down on a college application, and feel that candidates without such experiences are less likely to be accepted into college. Many view this as their "hook", which they are told is key to being admitted. From what I've read, Europe college entrance isn't predicated on work or volunteer experience.

 

This I do know and realize that people don't have the option....so let's see, if it came down to working on a foreign language or volunteering, people would probably volunteer....

 

You're right about the IB...a certain number of Community Service hours are required...as well as sports and creative hours - none of which are required to enter uni here....Ok this is Switzerland where if you have the right diploma, you are automatically admitted...What are those Latin terms for admitting all? vs the selection process in the US? A couple of years ago someone told me there was a selection process in France at least for a certain high level school...but I think they would look at prizes or intern experience in the field, not volunteer experience...

 

[Joan in GE]

It's hard for teens to find paid jobs these days because a lot of the jobs that were commonly held by teens back when DH and I were in high school are now held by adult immigrants.

 

I can totally understand why the restaurants, stores, landscaping services, etc. prefer to hire adult immigrants over native-born teens, but at the same time, I worry that the practice is furthering the split between the "two Americas". Holding down an unglamorous, minimum wage job as a teen flipping burgers or mowing lawns or bagging groceries or whatever used to help avoid or at least reduce the entitlement attitude I see so prevalent among teens and 20somethings today.

 

A lot of foreign countries have a mandatory national service requirement so even if their teens don't work or volunteer during high school, they still have that experience of having to do grunt work in their late teens or early 20's.

 

Yes, there's mandatory national service here....

 

Oh yes, now I'm remembering the point about not having an entitlement attitude from my youth....but has teen work really stopped that in the current generation? or slightly before if teens are having trouble getting jobs now...

 

Also, I didn't know that new development about immigrants doing the jobs teens used to do...

[Pawz4me]

Answering for my oldest DS, who will be headed to university in August.  For the past four years he's logged 200+ volunteer hours each year through our city's Youth Council.  He's also participated in two or three varsity sports each year through his high school.  That combined with taking honors/AP level courses makes for a pretty full load, and thus he's never had a paying job.  He doesn't own his car, but has had the full use of a vehicle which we provide him (including covering the gas and insurance) since he got his drivers license at 16.  This is the norm for middle class to upper class kids in our area.

[rdj2027]

I have to qualify my vote though.  Our oldest who attends school in Germany volunteers and works rather extensively.  My #2 does neither for a number of reasons.

[FaithManor]

We school year round only taking five weeks off - the last week of June and four weeks of July. So part-time summer jobs are out. But, they do manage to do some volunteering through 4-H. It's in fits and spurts for special events so it might be several hours on a Friday and Saturday and then not again for three weeks so it works out to somewhere between 0 and 5 hrs. "per week" for some of the summer.

 

Car insurance for licensed teens under 18 is very, very expensive here in Michigan because of No-fault insurance which causes car insurance to be much higher than many states. We pay way more without a teen driver for two adults driving used vehicles in a rural, extremely low population area not carrying collision coverage with no traffic violations on our records than my dd and her husband do in their highly populated, high rate of car accidents area of New Jersey. So, a lot of parents do not license their teens until 18 which means that even if there were jobs available for teenagers - which for the most part there aren't anymore because the traditional jobs that teenagers once did are now filled by retired folks who can no longer live on their pensions and need to make more cash...the loophole in the law being that they can earn I think $24,000.00 a year and not affect their Social Security. Thus, outside of babysitting and the occasional lawn mowing job, there is not much out there.

 

College bound kids are also often in dual enrollment and have a lot of homework due to the way classes are scheduled. The kids taking the tougher classes do not have study halls in their schedules to aid in getting work done in school. A few will be involved in volunteer tutoring or volunteer service for a club or NHS, but the vast majority and especially if also playing a sport, just simply do not have the time even if opportunities were available.

 

My kids are also on the 4-H youth council. But, that's one, two hour meeting per month and then working an occasional event of fundraiser so again, volunteer work but not on a weekly basis.

[Joan in GE]

I have to qualify my vote though.  Our oldest who attends school in Germany volunteers and works rather extensively.  My #2 does neither for a number of reasons.

 

Thank you! Among his/her friends and acquaintances, how common is this? and is it for university track or the 'other' track that regentrude mentioned in the International Education thread...

[Joan in GE]

 

 

Car insurance for licensed teens under 18 is very, very expensive here in Michigan because of No-fault insurance which causes car insurance to be much higher than many states. We pay way more without a teen driver for two adults driving used vehicles in a rural, extremely low population area not carrying collision coverage with no traffic violations on our records than my dd and her husband do in their highly populated, high rate of car accidents area of New Jersey. So, a lot of parents do not license their teens until 18 which means that even if there were jobs available for teenagers - which for the most part there aren't anymore because the traditional jobs that teenagers once did are now filled by retired folks who can no longer live on their pensions and need to make more cash...the loophole in the law being that they can earn I think $24,000.00 a year and not affect their Social Security. Thus, outside of babysitting and the occasional lawn mowing job, there is not much out there.

 

College bound kids are also often in dual enrollment and have a lot of homework due to the way classes are scheduled. The kids taking the tougher classes do not have study halls in their schedules to aid in getting work done in school. A few will be involved in volunteer tutoring or volunteer service for a club or NHS, but the vast majority and especially if also playing a sport, just simply do not have the time even if opportunities were available.

 

My kids are also on the 4-H youth council. But, that's one, two hour meeting per month and then working an occasional event of fundraiser so again, volunteer work but not on a weekly basis.

 

I'd forgotten that - but now that you mention it, I remember seeing retired folks bagging food at some stores...

 

Hmmm  - I wonder how many teens can actually find jobs these days....

 

Interesting about the No fault insurance being so high too....how do people manage without public transport?

[Joshin]

My oldest, about to turn 14 and whom is starting 8th/9th grade, will begin volunteering at a local art museum after his 14th birthday. He decided to do this after talking to a college recruiter for the university/program that he plans to attend. The recruiter informed him that teens with volunteer and work experience rose to the top of the program application pile compared to those with similar academic successes that did not work/volunteer. He is starting with one day, 4 hours per week because his class load comes first (a mixture of homeschool and outside classes through a public high school program for homeschoolers). We may allow him to bump it up to twice per week if his school work won't suffer.

 

My son also hopes that having two years of volunteer service will help him get a job when he's 16 if he chooses to, although there is always a chance he could get a paid position at the museum (they often tap their volunteer pool for ticket booth or gift shop positions). So far there are still a few job options for teens in our area. For example, our local coffee shop primarily hires from the pool of neighborhood teens. Our main rule with both work and volunteering is that it can't impact your studies, and if you want to drive at 16 you must be either working or volunteering. We may relax that rule, because on his current track he will begin college at 16, so he will need a car but may need an adjustment period before he can do both work and school.

 

On a side note, my 9 year old is already working :) He has a successful (for a 9 year old) neighborhood house sitting business and he is developing another online business idea he hopes to launch soon. But he's only happy if he is overscheduled and sorting through chaos.

[Matryoshka]

I have twins, so it's hard to answer the poll, as the answer is different for each.

 

Neither of them did much of anything freshman year.

 

Partway through sophomore year, one dd got a job, 12-5 on Sundays.  She just gave notice, as she'll be going to be in Germany all summer, so no working or volunteering then.

 

Other dd didn't do much until she found out about an internship at a living history museum.  She applied, interviewed, got in, and will be volunteering there 15 full days between May-Oct.  (Not only doesn't she get paid, I had to pay them). :glare:

 

Next year the dd that was working this year will hopefully be helping run a Java class at our homeschool coop - I'm hoping that can count as both 'volunteering' and 'leadership'??   Have no idea what other dd will do.

 

I know they're supposed to be doing all this for their college resume, but honestly I'm not seeing how they can do a ton of outside stuff and still carry their course load (2-3 APs each next year) and not get burnt out...  Yet, "everyone else" seems to be doing it. :huh:

[elegantlion]

I'd forgotten that - but now that you mention it, I remember seeing retired folks bagging food at some stores...

 

Hmmm  - I wonder how many teens can actually find jobs these days....

 

 

 

 

In our area, it's not retirees or immigrants, it's simply adults trying to find any job. A city to our south has lots of retail growth, but most jobs are retail or restaurant. In another direction, the city lost jobs several years ago and the economy has not rebounded. 

[FaithManor]

I'd forgotten that - but now that you mention it, I remember seeing retired folks bagging food at some stores...

 

Hmmm  - I wonder how many teens can actually find jobs these days....

 

Interesting about the No fault insurance being so high too....how do people manage without public transport?

It's rampant around here. When I was a student, bagging groceries, farm sitting, lawn mowing, dog walking, custodial work like washing windows for area businesses and general cleaning, McDonald's during peak tourist season, bussing tables at the pizza place, you name it were all things a teen could do. Now, at any grocery store, older folks are bagging groceries, bussing tables, working at McD's, and doing custodial work. Agricultural work that was once available has gone to migrant workers who do not have any school schedules or family activities that the employer would need to work around making them more lucrative workers and no "child labor" laws to abide by as well. Even working the in hay and mucking out stalls is hardly available. Now, that said, our middle boy has earned quite a bit of money farm sitting. It is difficult to find people who will live at your farm and take care of your livestock and do it well. P is fastidious with other people's animals and LOVES doing it. In terms of horse stalls, he mucks out cleaner than most adults I've ever seen. He gets raves reviews for his work and he keeps his price low so the farmers are really thrilled to employ him. Most adults wouldn't work for so little. My friend's farm, one of his favorite gigs, is a smaller hobby farm - 15 hens and one rooster, five ducks, 10 sheep, 5 llamas, two horses, and a sheep dog to work. Chores take him about 80 minutes in the morning and afternoons 30 minutes, plus he works the sheep dog for 30 minutes a day, oh and feeds their indoor cat. He stays in the house, leaves it immaculate, waters the garden if it needs it, walks the dog three times per day besides doing that 30 minutes of training work and only charges $35.00 a day as long as they keep the refrigerator stocked with fresh fruits, eggs, dairy products, carrots and broccoli, and some ground beef and a couple of chicken breasts. He cooks, cleans up, etc. More responsible than a lot of college students I know! LOL

 

The larger farm, 300 cattle, 60 calves on bottles, 20 chickens, 12 ducks, but no fiber animals or pigs, he charges quite a bit more. He doesn't stay on the farm - it's close enough that he either rides his bike or if the weather is inclement, I drive him - but, a lot more work. He has gallons and gallons of formula to mix for the calves and then make up the bottles and hang them in their racks, beginner grain to give, hay, give each one a general looking over to make sure no one is showing signs of illness or injury, bottles and nipples to then wash and rack to dry, many hay bales to toss out of the mow and drag to the feeding stanchions for the steers, huge water troughs to fill and water buckets for the calves, weening calves to take care of and change their bedding, the four wheeler has to be driven out to a separate pen with hay for the bull, and the chickens and ducks. It's four hours of hard work every day in the summer plus riding out and back and five in the winter when everyone is eating a LOT of hay. He charges $75.00 a day and sometimes A, our youngest teen, goes with him to help with the calves. When that happens, he gives his brother $10.00. Last summer the youngest earned $100.00 helping with calves and was thrilled. He'll likely take over "the business" when P leaves for college. P also has two elderly couples that pay him $20.00 a day to stay at their houses with their dogs when they travel. He takes his schoolwork and uses their internet for his online classes. I check in once in a while and see if he needs help with his studies, but he usually does an excellent job and I try to make sure I've gone over math, chemistry or physics concepts for the week before he leaves.

 

Once my boys are off to college, I have no idea what these three farmers (there is another hobby farm he works at as well) and the two elderly couples will do because I know of no other teens willing to do the work. Most 4-H families that are agriculturally minded already have their own farms and livestock to keep them busy.  That said, sticking your arm up a ewe's behind to help a couple of tangled twin or triplet lambs be born, or wrestling a wayward calf, or mucking out horse stalls, or dealing with injured or sick livestock just isn't the kind of job that a huge number of teens are good at or for which they are willing to be trained.

 

[mom2att]

While my daughter didn't have a paying job through her high school years, our state does have a scholarship program that requires a certain number of volunteer hours as well as test scores.  So during her junior year and throughout various high school summers she volunteered at the library in order to accrue the 100 hours required.  Now that she has graduated, she is spending the summer babysitting to save up some cash before she goes to the university in the fall.  Ideally she will also get a job on campus, but I'm not sure how difficult that will be.

 

She does not have her own car, but she has had ready access to my car since she was old enough to drive, because she was taking classes various places to which she had to drive.  It was certainly easier than me driving her everywhere.

 

Several of her friends had part time jobs in high school, and also played sports in addition to a full school schedule.  I have no idea how they managed it.

[Laura Corin]

FWIW, the International Baccalaureate includes required 'volunteer' hours.

 

L

[angela in ohio]

We chose not to have dc get a paying job, so that they could focus on volunteer work and their education. Oldest ended up getting paid for her research position, but it started as unpaid internship. She will also be paid this summer for the summer camp teaching that she has been doing for free previously. She will graduate with well over 1000 volunteer hours.

 

Most teens in this area work, though, according to what my dc see from the other students in dual enrollment courses, and all the usual jobs are staffed by teens. In the wealthier suburbs nearby, most teens don't work, but there is more available academically.

 

Volunteer hours are required for NHS and at the private schools. Most teens seem willing to volunteer beyond that, they just don't know how to get involved until we suggest something. Sports also eats up a lot of time. Dd played JV softball for one season, and that was enough for us. :(

 

We also joined the growing trend of non-driving teens. My dd will likely get her license next year at 19 when she wants to work an internship for the summer. 

[Michelle_NC]

My dd (16) would *love* to have a job but I encouraged her to wait until after summer is over because she has two summer camps and some family trips to work around. After that, we'd be happy for her not to work, but she really wants to, so we're supportive within certain boundaries.  She volunteers extensively during the year.  Most of the younger teens in our area seem to find jobs with family/friends or start their own businesses.

 

The most ingenious is a pair of teen girls who dress up like various Disney princesses and do children's birthday parties for a very reasonable fee.

[shanvan]

I answered 5-10 hrs, but that isn't always true.  Ds has some weeks when he is not scheduled at all, and some weeks (like during Christmas, Thanksgiving, Memorial day weekend) when he is scheduled more like 10-15, rarely 20 hrs.  He works at a kennel and it is full during holidays.  

 

He was supposed to stop working during the school year, but Dh lost his job at the end of last summer, and Ds decided he would keep working so he could pay for his extracurriculars that we would not be able to afford.

 

His boss is extremely flexible and he can have time off for events whenever he needs it as long as he lets her know in advance.

[AngelaNYC]

My oldest(20) hasn't stopped working since she was 15 (Pizza place, juice bar, laundromat, Bed Bath & Beyond, and now an ale house).  Younger dd(17) has never worked.  She was always busy with dance (rehearsals, competitions, performances, etc).  And now she still won't work because her conservatory classes are from 8am to 5:30pm. She might want to work one day on the weekend (but I doubt it).

 

Neither drive, although oldest will get her permit next month.  Younger dd will be living on the Upper West Side of Manhattan starting this fall, so she definitely does not need a car.

[swellmomma]

This past year neither teen worked BUT last year ds15 worked approx 10-12 hours a week.  After they get back from cadet camp this summer each has a job lined up, they will be working between 12-16 hours a week each, which is plenty since they have to babysit the others while I work and still put enough time into school work and cadets.  

When I was a teen I worked 15 hours a week during the school year, 40 a week in the summers.  I expect pretty close to the same with my teens.  With oldest working slightly less because he needs more time to focus on school due to his LDs

[elegantlion]

 

 

The most ingenious is a pair of teen girls who dress up like various Disney princesses and do children's birthday parties for a very reasonable fee.

 

What an awesome idea. We had a friend who was into theater and film come as Darth Vader to one of ds's birthday parties. You should have seen all these little boys and they had light saber battles with him. It was cool. At the end, he pulled of the mask and most of the boys knew him from church. 

[shadanjem]

FaithManor - can your son move to SC!!!!  We need exactly that for our small farm!  

 

In regards to our own kids - DS is rising 9th.  Probably works on average 5-10 hours a week on our farm.  Some WAY more - 30+, depending upon what is going on.  (In reality, if something goes wrong, its DS who is here to help me)  He thinks pediatric specialist may be of interest.  So, will start volunteering at the hospital this fall at 14.  Working towards summer camp counselor at 17 or 18 (its a multi year process where he wants to work).  Assistant (volunteer) teacher at the dojo.  We are hoping to use jobs and volunteer for career exploration.  Although he has been talking to a high end restaurant nearby about helping out - largely because he likes the chef's food and wants to learn from him.

[TrixieB]

One of my teens volunteers 10 - 20 hours per month (weekends) during the school year, and 20 - 40 hours per month (weekends and some weekdays) during the summer.  She has been doing this for about four years.  I provide transportation as she does not have a driver's license.

 

My just-turned-teen does not volunteer.  I filled out the poll for my older teen because I forgot that I now have two teens. :001_rolleyes:

[shage]

I answered 0-5 hours because that is most weeks during the school year, but there are weeks ds puts in 10-15.  Second child works about 0-5 with her own little business.

 

Our 3 oldest have started jobs before they were teens.  It has been interesting working with the child labor constraints.  I worry much more about complying with child labor laws than I do homeschooling laws.

 

Why so much work?

 

Basically with oldest son he wanted time away from the family yet wanted to homeschool too and an opportunity came up with a family friend.  He would not be working what he does if he were in a regular school.  It gives a nice balance.  He was the freedom and the independence plus has learned some kickin' practical skills.  He is a skilled wood worker, mechanic, welder, inventor, and tinkerer.  He also wants to be an engineer.  JMO but the hands on job provide a nice foundation for that.

 

Second child has started her own small business (long story).

 

Realistically, we are a large family and the kids need to save for their college education.  I honestly think that is a big part of the teen work culture gap with Europe:  car ownership and college fees.  (Though our kids do not own cars.)

 

There is also a difference with adults with the number of careers the average American works in prior to retirement.  Lots more job changes, maybe out of necessity with a smaller social safety net?  I am not sure.  All I know is I think it is wise for the kids to develop a skill or two that is marketable outside their academic interests.

 

[creekland]

Here the vast majority of kids have a part time job.  I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've asked a student where they work and gotten an "I don't" answer.  We're semi-rural and definitely in a working class neighborhood, so it's just expected that a student gets a job soon after they turn 16 or 17 and have their Driver's License.  It doesn't matter if they are college bound or not.  It really doesn't seem to matter what their family income is either, though some of the wealthier kids can get jobs at the country club or other similar places vs basic restaurant or retail.

 

My older two (homeschooled through high school) worked for hubby when he needed engineering field work (akin to surveying).  We chose that in order to keep both our schedule and theirs flexible.  Youngest (back to ps) didn't feel that was "enough" of a job, so works at Chick Fil A.  There was definitely "peer pressure" for him to fit in by working somewhere.

 

All of my kids volunteer - generally through church or school.  Many, but not all, at the high school do.

[Jane in NC]

I had to change my vote. Initially I indicated 0 hours during the school year, but I remembered that my son always did yard work for my neighbor in middle and high school.  This was obviously a seasonal dependent thing but it probably averaged out to an hour a week.

 

Living in a tourist area, it is easy for kids to find summer jobs.  We have known kids who bagged groceries, scooped ice cream, made pizzas or sandwiches.  Other kids have taught sailing, worked in the library or have had jobs in summer fun or educational programs for younger children.

 

To be honest, affluence may enter into this equation.  It is not just that some kids need to work for the spending money or dollars for car insurance/college tuition; not all families travel. Some of the families we know only travel on rare occasion--maybe to see a family member in a different part of the country or maybe the rare trip to Disney.  The families that we know who travel usually want their high school kids accompanying them on summer vacations.  Seasonal employers are not always generous with taking say the 4th of July week off.

 

Our family views education as the student's primary job so we did not encourage our son to find employment during the school year.  He was a busy kid without a job!  Like Faith's kids, my son was an active 4-Her who participated in local, regional and state events.  He also won a number of cash prizes and an eventual college scholarship from 4-H.  As far as I was concerned, this was almost like a job!

[Joan in GE]

Work thread – I’m sorry I can’t interact about each post due to limited online time today – but I think it’s so great how teens have found such diverse ways of laboring….and I’m SO impressed with the energy some teens have!

 

FaithManor what a good idea…

 

and Margaret I can see how you’ve raised your children to be so competent.

 

Shage – could you tell us more about the small business your second started? The variety of teen endeavors might give other teens ideas…agreeing that paying for college in the US is a huge difference with Europe…

[shage]

Work thread – I’m sorry I can’t interact about each post due to limited online time today – but I think it’s so great how teens have found such diverse ways of laboring….and I’m SO impressed with the energy some teens have!

 

FaithManor what a good idea…

 

and Margaret I can see how you’ve raised your children to be so competent.

 

Shage – could you tell us more about the small business your second started? The variety of teen endeavors might give other teens ideas…agreeing that paying for college in the US is a huge difference with Europe…

 

Nail art.

 

Other ways the kids have earned money as the kid equivalent of independent contractor or business owner:  commissioned woodworking jobs, bike repair, tutoring, babysitting, lamp repair and other small fix-it job, interior house painting.

 

One child has worked for a contractor for 4 years now, and that is interesting making it acceptable to the state since minor children are not allowed on construction sites but are on certain remodeling jobs.  And then it is verboten for them to use power tools with a cord, but they can build with power tools in our own garage and sell the product.  Similarly, they can not do mani/pedi's without a license but they can create the designs, print the decals, collet the polish and bling, then package all that and sell it to professionals or people wanting to do their own.

[Melissa B]

Most of the high school students here do not work unless they are working for their family members. We are in a college town and the high school students cannot compete with the (60,000+) college students for jobs. Plus, volunteer hours are required for the state funded Bright Futures scholarships, so most college bound high school students are trying to get all of their volunteer hours in and the local non-profits prefer to utilize the high school students in this capacity. Like many students, my daughter tries to get most of these hours in over the summer and focuses more on academics during the school year.

[Julie in MN]

I voted for what my kids have done, but not what I would have preferred they'd done.  My preference seems to be a European model, focusing on school and family and perhaps volunteering, and not driving.  However, my boys especially wanted to work and their dad supported that.  Reid has had 3 jobs at once for the last year or two (cash register, electronic advertising signs at high school sports games, and occasional industrial duct cleaning with a relative), and it does interfere with his schooling success.  He usually gets jobs through friends or vice versa.  We live in an edge-of-city suburb with retail surrounding us, there are 3 Target stores and 5 McDonalds within biking distance of our house (tho none of the high schoolers will go near McDonalds type jobs, it's not cool, mostly Hispanic adults work those jobs).

 

I held them back from getting their drivers license until age 17 (or almost, in one case).  They thought not driving at 16 would kill them, and I thought the opposite LOL.  I had a girlfriend who was driving when another friend was killed, so that probably skewed my view.

 

I am curious whether European kids are handed money for their needs and wants?  Even before the car/gas issue came up, my boys tended to spend their money on things like snowboards/skiing season pass, guitar that they weren't taking seriously enough for me to consider it an instrument, doing things with their friends (fast food, bowling, school dance, etc), and electronics (music, nice phones, computer).  In Europe, do studious kids just go without a lot of stuff and outside activities, or do mommy and daddy give them whatever they need?

 

Julie

[regentrude]

 

I am curious whether European kids are handed money for their needs and wants? ...  In Europe, do studious kids just go without a lot of stuff and outside activities, or do mommy and daddy give them whatever they need?

 

I can only speak for Germany and my friends there. It is standard for kids to receive an allowance from their parents, pretty much since they begin school. German kids are on the go independently from a much younger age, are independently purchasing things in shops since elementary school age and using public transit across cities from 5th grade on. So they are handling some amounts of money on a regular basis. Since teens do not drive, they do not have the expense of cars/gas (which would be extremely expensive there).

The amount of money of course depends on the family's financial situation.

[Julie in MN]

I can only speak for Germany and my friends there. It is standard for kids to receive an allowance from their parents, pretty much since they begin school. German kids are on the go independently from a much younger age, are independently purchasing things in shops since elementary school age and using public transit across cities from 5th grade on. So they are handling some amounts of money on a regular basis. Since teens do not drive, they do not have the expense of cars/gas (which would be extremely expensive there).

The amount of money of course depends on the family's financial situation.

 

Regen,

So, say the German kid want something expensive and their allowance doesn't cover it.  Is the child okay with that, because all his friends probably have a similar allowance and a similar inability to have things past a certain price point?  Or do parents just give/spend a lot more than I imagine?

 

I mean, I LOVE the idea of kids not having jobs, but this generation is so consumer-driven that it isn't like my youth, at least here in the urban area we live.  We saved up birthday money for one big-ticket item dreamed of all year (like a $25 record player LOL).  It isn't even like my 27 & 29 year olds' youth, when I gave my daughter cell phone service for Christmas by wrapping up 12 sheets of paper saying "January, February, etc."  Back then, her actual phone was free I think, whereas now they are big bucks and every kid I see has one.  Not only that, but they get new ones because they break or get lost or just want the newest one.  My son thinks he's done well when his lasts 6 months (my cell phones never wear out or get lost, but that's a different story).  Even sports like snowboarding can cost many hundreds of dollars for a season pass, a new board, boots and bindings, a special jacket, even if I paid for good gloves and gave him the helmet and goggles for Christmas.  I mean, some things last but growing, active boys mean size changes and wearing out.

 

Just curious,

Julie

[Laura Corin]

 

I am curious whether European kids are handed money for their needs and wants?  Even before the car/gas issue came up, my boys tended to spend their money on things like snowboards/skiing season pass, guitar that they weren't taking seriously enough for me to consider it an instrument, doing things with their friends (fast food, bowling, school dance, etc), and electronics (music, nice phones, computer).  In Europe, do studious kids just go without a lot of stuff and outside activities, or do mommy and daddy give them whatever they need?

 

Julie

 

Ski-ing is definitely for rich kids around here.  Calvin gets £5 a week in pocket money.  He saved up to buy a bass guitar, and when he had taught himself a good amount, we paid for instrumental lessons.

 

Fast food: if it's a meal, we pay; if it's a snack, he pays.  Bowling, movies, etc. are for him to pay for.  Ordinary school dances he pays for but Leavers' Ball (expensive, one-time event) we did.  We pay his bus fares for normal local trips, but if he wants to make a more optional trip (like going to Edinburgh with friends) he pays.  I pay for the cheapest possible dumb phone for him - if he wants a nice phone, he pays.

 

L

[Laura Corin]

See, skiing/boarding here is NOT expensive. The middle schoolers and high schoolers are eligible for "Choice Passes" for agreeing to staying drug free. That means a GOLD Pass is $115, rather than $800 and there's a free bus to the ski area. Used boards and skis can be found inexpensively, as can jackets, helmets, etc. If my kids don't want to pack a lunch, lunch in the warming house is on them. And we have a ski hill on the back side of the ranch--we gave it to the city many years ago. Skiing is one of the cheapest things we do!

 

Our nearest skiing is a good drive away.  An all-Scotland pass costs £275 for 17 and unders; £485 for adults.

 

L

[Laura Corin]

See, skiing/boarding here is NOT expensive. The middle schoolers and high schoolers are eligible for "Choice Passes" for agreeing to staying drug free. That means a GOLD Pass is $115, rather than $800 and there's a free bus to the ski area. Used boards and skis can be found inexpensively, as can jackets, helmets, etc. If my kids don't want to pack a lunch, lunch in the warming house is on them. And we have a ski hill on the back side of the ranch--we gave it to the city many years ago. Skiing is one of the cheapest things we do!

 

A ski pass costs between £280 (up to age 17) and £480 (adult) for the season.

 

L

[Julie in MN]

Yes, my sons keep moving to Colorado.  And that may be one of the draws :)

 

But still, even if a kid doesn't ski/board, there are things that cost a lot, whether it's the newest cell phone or computer or whatever. 

[dhudson]

My ds works 3-4 hours a week and volunteers 4-5 hours a week during the school year. During the summer, he volunteers more. He is going to spend next week in inner city LA teaching SCRATCH and beginning programming to kids. Due to his volunteer hours and outside extra curriculars, he does not have time to work more. We have decided that the volunteer work he does willingly and pursues on a daily basis is more important than a more consistent job.