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Doing all the AoPS PreA problems?


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My dd12 is finishing ch 3 of AoPS Pre-Algebra. She is generally a very slow math student (it takes her for.ev.er to work through a set of problems), but she is liking the challenge of AoPS so far. I am wondering if I can lighten her load by omitting some of the problems. We are already skipping the challenge problems. The regular ones are challenging enough.  :tongue_smilie:

 

I'm asking, because I want her to finish PreA in a reasonable time frame. Ideally, by September or October, so that she can start Algebra in 8th grade. We aren't sure if she will go to ps for high school, or if I will still homeschool her. If she ends up going to a local school, I can't have her halfway though an Algebra course at the start of 9th grade.

 

Do you do all the problems in each set? Do you do ALL the review problems? There are so many of those, and it takes her 3 or 4 days to work through a review if we do each problem. If I only do some of the review problems, would you do every other one or just truncate the assignment? I don't have enough experience with their program to see if there's a pattern to how the review problems are assigned.

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Listening in! We skipped/omitted very, very, very few problems in K-6 math and are now transitioning to the idea of doing 'some' problems. We are not going to be able to broaden our scope if we continue to do math at 99% intensity though so I'm interested in others opinions/experiences on this issue.

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My daughter is only skipping the challenge problems (and she doesn't really skip them, just goes back at a later date to tackle them). She does the rest of the problems in each chapter. It takes a long time, but this prealgebra is not like a typical prealgebra book, where they explain a concept and the student practices it 25 times in the exact same manner. Very few problems in each set are similar; each seems to include different concepts in different combinations. Skipping problems, in my opinion, would just leave out essential practice.

 

How long does your daughter spend on math each day? Mine spends 60-90 minutes a day, which allows her to (usually) complete a lesson over two days. That isn't a zippy pace, but it is as fast as she can go without sacrificing understanding.

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In my opinion, you can't really skip problems in AOPS. None of the problems are the same. You can choose to skip the challenge problems for now, and come back to them later.

With my older daughter, we would do a section in two days at first. At some point she picked up speed and got more interested, so we could do a section or even two in a day. The summaries typically took 3-5 days.

It is totally worth it to spend more time on it in order to get everything out of it. We found it transformative.

Hope that helps.

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We did all the regular chapter review problems.  We saved the challenge problems for a later review at the end of the book (a few carefully-selected problems from each chapter) - it was amazing how much "easier" those problems seemed at a later time.  There is something about allowing time for things to "gel" that helped.

 

Note that the second half of the Prealgebra text has shorter chapters that are more evenly-paced than the first half.  You may find that she finishes the second half of the book much quicker than the first half.  Anticipate that ch 5 might take relatively longer.

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Thanks ladies. I couldn't see any repetition in the problems, but I'm not actually working through every problem, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something and making her do unnecessary work.

 

She just finished the ch 3 review today, and I was stressing a little on how long it takes her. She spends about an hour working on it each day. I cut her off and tell her to quit if it gets close to 90min. I still have to sit next to her and remind her to stop daydreaming and get back to work. But that's another post. ;)

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We spent four months on the first three chapters, then less than one from 4 on.

 

I second not skipping. The problems are set up to lead the student like bread crumbs through the math and often to build on the next chapter.

 

The review problems I split into a study guide and a test. It works out to about ten to twelve for a study guide and fourteen or so for a test. These I put in a portfolio to show for the year's math. If you are thinking about PS, you might want to consider that to show them the level if math she has been doing. The PreA does not cover different topics, but the level if instruction is much deeper than a traditional course.

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I did the Pre-Algebra myself. Each problem had a different twist to it, not at all like regular textbooks that set a series of similar problems. I did not skip any regular or review problems, tried to do as many challenge ones as I could.

 

I agree with others not to skip any section or review problems. It goes slowly for most people, but will be time well spent. I found that each chapter-- say radicals or exponents-- goes beyond what my ds did on his ps algebra class.

 

The foundation that AoPS gives will last for a long time, IMO. Tell dd to hang in there!

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We do all the problems, but may use what some others here have suggested and save some or all challenge problems for later.

 

I think 60 to 90 minutes for math is reasonable at this level. If in b&m school it would likely be a 50 minute class and then homework too for around 90 minutes a day on math, and maybe homework over the weekend too.

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We do all the problems in AoPS (usually). We do every problem in the sections before the review exercises. We often spend a week on the review problems from a chapter. My kids tend to do all of the review problems before the challenge section alone and then we often do the challenge section together. Oftentimes, we'll go ahead and start the next chapter as we get near the end of the review problems.

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.

 

Luckymama-I got distracted by your blog, and I'm going to hijack my own thread. :D

 

I love your American history line-up. We may use that for 9th grade (assuming I've convinced her to continue homeschooling ;)). DD is currently using the OUP Early Modern World books, and I was going to spend 8th grade finishing off world history using Vol 2 & 3 of Human Odyssey. I was looking at Pages from History too, but I think I'll save those for a separate American history study. Did you ever put together a list of additional resources for Human Odyssey Vol. 2 or 3? Or did you just go straight into American History?

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Luckymama-I got distracted by your blog, and I'm going to hijack my own thread. :D

 

I love your American history line-up. We may use that for 9th grade (assuming I've convinced her to continue homeschooling ;)). DD is currently using the OUP Early Modern World books, and I was going to spend 8th grade finishing off world history using Vol 2 & 3 of Human Odyssey. I was looking at Pages from History too, but I think I'll save those for a separate American history study. Did you ever put together a list of additional resources for Human Odyssey Vol. 2 or 3? Or did you just go straight into American History?

Thanks :)

 

We did do both volumes 2 and 3. I never put the resources up---in fact, they are on paper somewhere. I sure hope I didn't recycle the papers! Someone else asked me about volume 3 so I am committed to finding my lists and posting them here, at least :)

 

I changed a few things with the American history plan----added/subtracted readings and documentaries. I will get those changes up sometime this summer.

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We do all problems except for the challenge problems.  My older ds refused to try based on the description "challenge".  That is how he rolls.  Younger ds has tried a few here and there because that's how he rolls.  I don't require the challenge problems.

 

I agree that the first half of the book is slow going, and the second half is faster moving. I despaired of finishing prior to August when we were in the first half, and now I see that we will finish with time to spare.  (We are on Chapter 11, and this is the last week of our official school year.  We will finish the rest of it this summer.)

 

My main frustration currently is that my boys do not have the perseverance they need, IMO.  They call "brain dead and done" sooner than I would like at this stage of the game.  Sometimes this is 30-45 minutes in.  However, we will finish the curriculum so I suppose what they are doing is working.  My goal for next year is to stretch that "brain dead" muscle.  ;)

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I wouldn't skip problems, but if you run out of time (i.e. if you get to October and she still hasn't finished) you could postpone the probability/statistics chapters and start on algebra instead -- that should give her plenty of time to finish enough algebra to compete with peers in PS.

 

If she does do that, though, I'd try to get her to go back for those chapters later -- like the summer after algebra -- I think that knowledge is useful for everyday life as well as in math class, but it isn't directly required for algebra.

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The second half of the book can be very fast for a geometry lover. Both kids took about a year including summer and occasionally doing an hour of math on weekends. We did the challenge ones as well sometimes with the given hints.

My younger is more of an audio-visual learner so he watch the videos first before each chapter.

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I'll weigh in that chapters 1-3 took roughly an eternity here, and pretty much after that point it went much faster and more smoothly. The last couple of chapters went extremely quickly. So just because it's taking a long time now doesn't mean it always will.

 

 

 

 

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That's a tough call. I understand wanting to start Algebra is 8th, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to rush through the remaining 12 chapters of AoPS Pre-Algebra to get there in the next four or five months. For some students that wouldn't be an issue at all, but the description you've written gives me pause.

 

My dd is also a slow math worker. I made the difficult call to let her spend two years on AoPS Pre-A. Two years. Around the same chapter you are on, I started questioning doing the challenge problems. Dropping them or at least most of them would have allowed us to go much more quickly. I soon realized, however, that my dd needed those problems to help the concepts gel in her mind.

 

I can't imagine not doing any of the challenge problems and skipping some of the regular problems. At that point, I would make the conscious decision to be OK with a slower pace, or I would seriously consider changing to a different program. I considered that myself at several points along this two year journey. Now that Chapter 15 finally awaits us to begin in the next couple weeks, I can say that for us slowing down and doing all the problems, videos, and Alcumus was the right choice, or at least not a terribly wrong one.  ;)  She has grown tremendously and is working more quickly now. She's also more focused and motivated.

 

It's tough to feel the pressure of wanting to be further along in math. I would try to assess what's taking so long. For my dd, it was partially a power struggle. After many long tearful weeks, I finally realized that. Then there was the time trying to figure out how to still support her, but not teach/hover. There were many days she refused to do more than one math problem. That's her rebellious streak....wild kid.... ;)   I can't go back and change what happened or retrieve the hours we lost. I also can't recover time lost during the moves. But I can identify what the circumstances were that contributed to the math slow down.

 

How long has she been working on the first three chapters? Do you know what part is taking the most time? Is it the writing, understanding new concepts, or something else? If I were in your situation I would use that info when making a decision.

 

I do agree that the first chapters take quite a bit of time. The later chapters go much more quickly. I would still be cautious of moving too quickly and skipping too much.

 

Math on a time table can cause angst... :grouphug:

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I'm just gonna throw this out there, but if she's going to be transferring to a public school and you have to finish on a specific timeline, maybe consider using something more in line with what she'll be using in the school system.

 

That being said, we are currently using AoPS PreA and are in the middle of chapter 3. It has been taking us forever to get through the beginning of the book. I think we're finally starting to move a little quicker. It's been a huge adjustment for my son, after using saxon, where everything was really easy for him. He has to think now, and it seems that's not something he's used to doing. At least not in math.

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 We aren't sure if she will go to ps for high school, or if I will still homeschool her. If she ends up going to a local school, I can't have her halfway though an Algebra course at the start of 9th grade.

 

 

 

I missed this the first time. My answer might change if you are seriously considering sending her to ps school for high school.

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Another alternative idea:  finish AoPS Prealgebra but use something other than, or else somehow abbreviate, Intro to Algebra.  In comparing scope and sequences of traditional alg 1 texts, there are some topics covered (not deeply) in algebra 1 texts that are covered more deeply in AoPS past ch 13/14 of Intro to Alg, and you may run into issues finishing all you'd like of Intro to Alg before starting at the B&M school.  It would be a real time challenge to get all of Intro to Algebra done by next fall, considering where you are in prealgebra.  Assuming working over the summers, I think you could get through AoPS Prealgebra and a more traditional algebra 1 or some sort of abbreviated version of Intro to Alg by next fall (maybe skipping certain lessons in the second half of the book that take topics deeper; I think you'd need virtually all of the first half, though the first four chapters will fly quickly thanks to Prealgebra).

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Another alternative idea:  finish AoPS Prealgebra but use something other than, or else somehow abbreviate, Intro to Algebra.  In comparing scope and sequences of traditional alg 1 texts, there are some topics covered (not deeply) in algebra 1 texts that are covered more deeply in AoPS past ch 13/14 of Intro to Alg, and you may run into issues finishing all you'd like of Intro to Alg before starting at the B&M school.  It would be a real time challenge to get all of Intro to Algebra done by next fall, considering where you are in prealgebra.  Assuming working over the summers, I think you could get through AoPS Prealgebra and a more traditional algebra 1 or some sort of abbreviated version of Intro to Alg by next fall (maybe skipping certain lessons in the second half of the book that take topics deeper; I think you'd need virtually all of the first half, though the first four chapters will fly quickly thanks to Prealgebra).

 

Yes, this is also a good point. If you don't start Algebra until late fall, I'd use something else that is also a solid choice (Jacobs springs to mind, but there are many options) so that you can get through it.

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How long has she been working on the first three chapters? Do you know what part is taking the most time? Is it the writing, understanding new concepts, or something else? If I were in your situation I would use that info when making a decision.

I don't think it's been very long. I'll need to comb through my previous posts to see when I started talking about AoPS. ;) I remember when I started it seemed perfectly reasonable for her to get though preA near the beginning of fall term. We school year-round and I require math even on the days when we get almost nothing done.

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I'm just gonna throw this out there, but if she's going to be transferring to a public school and you have to finish on a specific timeline, maybe consider using something more in line with what she'll be using in the school system.

 

That being said, we are currently using AoPS PreA and are in the middle of chapter 3. It has been taking us forever to get through the beginning of the book. I think we're finally starting to move a little quicker. It's been a huge adjustment for my son, after using saxon, where everything was really easy for him. He has to think now, and it seems that's not something he's used to doing. At least not in math.

 

You know it's funny, she has hated math since 2nd grade. And I've tried multiple programs, but AoPS is the first thing that she actually wants to continue with. I feel like I've posted this a lot today, but she is adamant that she wants to continue to push through with this program. I may move on to something more traditional for Algebra, but she seems to be doing well with aops so far, and I don't want to fix it if it's not broken, kwim?

 

Then again, I'm not totally sure if she's going back to school. I want to continue through high school. In the recent past, she was quite adamant that she needed to go to school if she was going to be able to get into college.  :rolleyes: She really has no clue what high school is like.

 

She wanted to go back to school in 7th grade, but I told her I would not be putting her into the middle school environment. Her friends (who go to a local middle school) have told her enough stories that she now understands what a rotten place middle school can be. Our compromise last year was that I'd consider allowing her go to school in 9th grade, if she stayed home through middle school.

 

I think I've convinced her that she can get into college without public school, and that it would be more fun (and probably more educational) at home with me. I much prefer teaching high school students to elementary age students, and I'd be sad to lose her just when it's getting fun. But... she's old enough to have some say in her education, and I want to be prepared to send her back to school if that's what she truly wants.

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The only problems that don't get done are a few challenge problems - I just have her select a certain number each chapter to do. Sometimes she does more, but not usually.

 

The practice problems are essential for building understanding. The exercises are application, but each problem is increasingly hard, approached from a different way, or provide a different challenge. No redundancy. So we don't skip those,

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We do all the problems, but I was ok with taking 2 years to go through the book. I agree with others that Chapters 1-3 go much slower than the other chapters. We spent Jul-Jan on 1-3 and did 4-5 Feb-May. It looks like we'll probably finish up next Jan, which will be about a year and a half. That's doing problems one day, exercises another day, spending 3-4 days on review and about 3ish days on challenge. Some sections, my son has been able to do problems and exercises in the same day. He only does math 30-45 minutes due to his age.

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