What do you say/do when people "dis" your kid's major, or college, etc.

[Ginevra]

If, indeed, you are unlucky enough to have family that would do this. <glare> do you defend your child's choices? Shrug and say you figure it will all work out? Poison their coffee?

[Kevin'sMom]

I say, "That's a boundary issue." If they don't get that, I explain and in no uncertain terms.

[creekland]

I politely explain their choices.  I've gotten a bit of experience with youngest choosing Marine Science... and by politely explaining his choices, I've gotten more than one to change their mind.  ;)

 

 

[Guest]

I politely explain their choices. I've gotten a bit of experience with youngest choosing Marine Science... and by politely explaining his choices, I've gotten more than one to change their mind. ;)

How does this look? Does Aunt Hazel say, "marine Science?! What kind of job can you get with that?" And you say...what?

[bettyandbob]

Are these the people you had to spend your beach weekend with? Arg.

[TCB]

Are these the people you had to spend your beach weekend with? Arg.

 

 

Poison their meat - didn't you have to cook the meat

[creekland]

It usually looks like:

 

Them:  There's no way I'd be paying for any child of mine to get a degree in Art History, Women's Studies, or Marine Biology.  Those are useless degrees that are there mainly for rich kids to be able to play at college...

 

Me:  You think so?  You know _____ is going into Marine Science, right?

 

Them:  How much are you spending - is he getting to go for free?

 

Me:  Definitely not for free.  We'll be spending more on him that we will for either of our other two if you don't count med school.  He will have some loans.

 

Them:  Why would you let him go?

 

Me:  Why not?  The lad has been into flora and fauna since he could walk (they know this if they know us, but I remind them anyway).  The school he's going to is one of the best or the best in the field and graduates we've talked with and heard about do get jobs in their field (insert enough examples for support - I spend a bit of time describing their program).  There are other similar majors if he changes his mind, but seriously, can you see him working in an office as an engineer?  I honestly think it's best if kids head out in fields they are talented in and we're willing to support him.  Life is so much better doing what you love rather than what you think makes the most money. 

 

Them:  What if he doesn't make it?

 

Me:  He'll still have that piece of paper needed to click boxes for so many jobs and he'll know we supported his dream rather than killing it before it could start.  There are people out there doing jobs he would love - why shouldn't he be able to see if he can join them?

 

Them:  I guess you have a point, but if he were to become an engineer, couldn't he just take diving trips, etc, like you guys do?

 

Me:  There are unemployed engineers too - esp those who go into it without a talent for their job (insert another example).  ______ would far rather be living in a tent and enjoying himself than working 48 weeks a year so he could do 4 weeks of vacation even if he could make it as an engineer.

 

Them:  You've got a point.  I hope it works out well for him.

 

I've no idea if they still think we're crazy or not in some cases, but I've never had anyone run through the conversation twice.  (Sometimes relatives, sometimes well-meaning co-workers.)

 

 

[Χά�ων]

Not about college choices but when DS was little the holiday get together during the holidays were poisonous due a person with a serious personality disorder. I left and set out very firm boundaries. All hell broke loose and it was bad. But I  managed to keep the poisonous person from having any contact with DS.

 

As for having a college aged child I like the "That's a boundary issue." said over and over. 

 

I may not be the best to give feedback. DS is only 10 and I am getting more and more snarky with age. I would probably throw out something not as civil, along with a stinging jab aimed at their heart then leave and not look back.

 

If it was people who do not get it but with whom I need to maintain civil contact, I do not know. Maybe the above "That's a boundary issue." followed by "You are not being respectful and I will not tolerate disrespect towards my son. Drop the subject and do not bring it up again." Then I would walk away or turn to someone else and start a different topic. Repeat as necessary with the added sentence "This is the X time. Do not bring it up again." 

 

Just out of curiosity, is your son present? How does he feel about this situation? Is he able to articulate himself well and is he willing to have a frank conversation with the person? No need to answer, I am just thinking outloud. At age 10, even with his language disorders, my son is way more patient and willing to sit and politely answer rather invasive (sometimes well meaning) questions that he is asked and not take offense. I would not throw it on him but if he is there, aware of the situation and willing to handle it, I would be open to allowing that to happen. 

 

 

 

[Desert Strawberry]

"He has always made good choices, even when we didn't agree with him. I trust that he is making the right choice now."

 

I have had this conversation twice this week.

 

ETA: This post refers to my adult bonus kid, not one of my little ones.

[kiana]

"How 'bout some bean dip?"

[Harriet Vane]

Depends on who I am speaking with.

 

If the person is one of my relatives, I usually purse my lips and just try to leave asap. I limit my time with them. They don't know how to be nice, and I don't expect it of them.

 

If my kid is sitting right there or heard what was said, I am more likely to say something affirming, like, "We're really proud of all that dd has achieved and look forward to seeing her do something awesome with [whatever is being criticized]."

 

If the person was unbelievably rude, I say something like, "There's no need to be rude." or "There's no need to criticize." or if I am feeling pretty hot under the collar I might say, "If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all."

 

If I sense that the person genuinely misunderstands in some way or is being a little stupid, I might try to have a conversation about it. I will only do this, though, if I sense a receptivity to an actual conversation.

[G5052]

Pass the bean dip.

 

People who truly love you will respect your family member's choices.

 

Believe me, I'm getting it right and left because one of mine is headed for community college with stellar SAT scores.  But there are reasons, and that's that.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

"My son's plans are his own business, of course, especially about details such as these. I am very proud of him and have nothing but hope for his future."

Bean dip or stare down or smile and walk away. I'd like to meet the person who could force me to have this conversation. NOPE.

[Guest]

Creekland, that is a spot-on and amazingly helpful sample dialogue! This looks very similar to the conversation I have had this past weekend, only not with as much wisdom from "my" side, and the subject being English/creative Writing, not Marine Biology.

 

Are these the people you had to spend your beach weekend with? Arg.

 

Yes, just the one SIL. Other people are at least superficially able to be civil, happy for DD, optimistic, etc., even if they might choose differently themselves.

[creekland]

Creekland, that is a spot-on and amazingly helpful sample dialogue! This looks very similar to the conversation I have had this past weekend, only not with as much wisdom from "my" side, and the subject being English/creative Writing, not Marine Biology.

 

I'll admit I got a lot of practice tweaking it and using it.  Apparently, when one has kids going into business/accounting and becoming a doctor, everyone is shocked when the third wants something like Marine Sciences...  My friends/family know there is no question that is out of line regarding the "seen" choices in our lives, so they feel free to ask.  I never believe in shutting off the conversation - I'd far rather explain it nicely.  Who knows when someone in the future might benefit?  Many of my friends have kids younger than mine...

 

Besides, if one just shuts off the conversation all folks do is continue it behind your back.  I see nothing useful in that.  I've overheard some of my friends (who had previously asked) sticking up for my guy (at school) with others.  THAT pleased me.  ;)

 

I have no idea if my guy will be successful in his goals or not, but I know I'm not standing in his way nor killing his dream just because the odds are tougher.  It's his niche.  If anyone can make it, he has as good a shot as the next person trying - possibly better.

[Guest]

I'll admit I got a lot of practice tweaking it and using it. Apparently, when one has kids going into business/accounting and becoming a doctor, everyone is shocked when the third wants something like Marine Sciences... My friends/family know there is no question that is out of line regarding the "seen" choices in our lives, so they feel free to ask. I never believe in shutting off the conversation - I'd far rather explain it nicely. Who knows when someone in the future might benefit? Many of my friends have kids younger than mine...

 

Besides, if one just shuts off the conversation all folks do is continue it behind your back. I see nothing useful in that. I've overheard some of my friends (who had previously asked) sticking up for my guy (at school) with others. THAT pleased me. ;)

 

I have no idea if my guy will be successful in his goals or not, but I know I'm not standing in his way nor killing his dream just because the odds are tougher. It's his niche. If anyone can make it, he has as good a shot as the next person trying - possibly better.

I would be very wise to learn from you. I don't know why I have such a difficult time working out a way to communicate beneficially with this one particular SIL. In all these years, I have not figured out the best response that will either help her be more gracious or just get her to close her mouth. Probably needless to say, but she made dire predictions about hsing in the first place. It's as though seeing that none of those predictions came to be makes no difference in her other closed opinions. She herself detests English and has no skill with language. It is as though she cannot comprehend that someone else might be talented in that area and, thus, it makes sense for kids to pursue their own areas of interest and skill.

[Gwen in VA]

Sympathy all around!

 

Having a kid heading into music seems to "provoke" some really nasty responses. I've been surprised/amazed/disappointed at the bashing my kid (thankfully not in her presence) and dh and I have gotten (us for letting her major in something so "unrealistic")

 

Depending on the person and my mood, I explain or I don't.... usually I usually end up acknowledging that music is an odd choice, dh and I have had years to make our peace with it, and if you heard her play you would understand too.....

 

I am definitely surprised at the number of people who think that as a parent I can direct my 18yo child's life!

[creekland]

I would be very wise to learn from you. I don't know why I have such a difficult time working out a way to communicate beneficially with this one particular SIL. In all these years, I have not figured out the best response that will either help her be more gracious or just get her to close her mouth. Probably needless to say, but she made dire predictions about hsing in the first place. It's as though seeing that none of those predictions came to be makes no difference in her other closed opinions. She herself detests English and has no skill with language. It is as though she cannot comprehend that someone else might be talented in that area and, thus, it makes sense for kids to pursue their own areas of interest and skill.

 

It is tough with some folks... I often remind myself that we all get to make our choices in life and if they choose to be so judgmental, so be it.  I remain as I am.

 

I also had to answer all the homeschooling questions too - between working in our public school (so HOW COULD I choose homeschooling???) and being the product of two public school teachers myself - as well as having two aunts and an uncle in ps... those questions were endless - and the quizzing my kids patiently responded to year after year. (They actually liked impressing the folks, so there wasn't really a problem with the quizzing.)  I was SO GLAD when my oldest got his high SAT/ACT, then college acceptances and merit awards.  Ditto that with middle son (who scored even higher).  Youngest, who opted to return to public school, did not score as high, but still did ok.  Teachers he had loved him and his love of learning.

 

Then I had folks in the public school system ask ME what I used.  That felt good.

 

Tact can work - sometimes.  Other times it at least makes me feel good about how "I" respond.  I can't control "them." 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I went through this when dd turned down her prep year to West Point to take her AROTC scholarship (she didn't want to spend the extra year though now whe'll have to due to surgery). I usually deflect and mention how much she loves Wyoming.

 

I floored one busybody awhile back--she was droning on about how useless at doctorate in music was going to be. I finally looked at her and pointed out that yeah, it would have been wonderful to be married to a doctor, but whoops, he died. In front of her. On her birthday. Shut the old biddie right up.

 

People will always disagree about something. I had a woman CONFRONT me about Navy girl's flying. I looked her straight in the face and said, "She's very highly trained and she's very good at what she does. She just got an early promotion." End of discussion. I guess the woman thought I didn't pray every day about it?

 

I keep back the final weapon in my arsenal if they just don't get it. "At least MY kids are defending their country." And they I walk away.

 

I remember a lovely answer from a friend's son.  He is an amazingly gifted musician. He and his brother were worship team leaders on an alternating basis with the head worship pastor at our church. When he started looking at colleges, he was considering several schools that were top notch music schools. Some adults were taken aback that he was looking outside the Christian college circuit.

 

One friend of the family asked him if he thought his faith was strong enough to survive his attending a school "like that". His response was, "I don't know. But I know my God is big enough."  I've been taken by that answer, even though it is now years ago.

 

I have to draw distinctions between family and friends who are genuinely curious or concerned about our family, people who are just asking questions because they are trying to figure things out and those who are trying to show off how much smarter they are. Then I try to temper my answer accordingly.

 

I've had more than one family who started homeschooling because I was willing to give detailed answers over time.  And I remember picking people's brains about what they were doing. 

[Luckymama]

"Isn't it wonderful that our kids have so many options?"

 

Says the mom who has a computer science major, an English-French double major, and an eighth grader considering geology, archaeology, and math...all sitting around the table from her :)

[Guest]

"My son's plans are his own business, of course, especially about details such as these. I am very proud of him and have nothing but hope for his future."

 

Bean dip or stare down or smile and walk away. I'd like to meet the person who could force me to have this conversation. NOPE.

I guess I don't know how this would actually work IRL. It would just seem like *i'm* the b@tch. I mean, a person is fully within their boundaries to ask, "What does KG plan to major in?" Other people ask this often and I don't think it's nosy or annoying. It's the questions that come after my answer that make me sorry I'm stuck talking to SIL.

 

So I say, "probably English and/or Creative Writing."

Her face immediately looks like she just smelled bad cheese and she says, "What kind of JOB can you get with *that*?"

I say, "Well, there are lots of business or government work that needs strong communications; marketing, advertising, web development..."

She says, "then why doesn't she get a business degree?"

I say, "She doesn't WANT a business degree."

At this point, a distraction intervened and so the conversation naturally ended.

 

I just hate that it ends like this, because no understanding happened and the discomfort of the conversation will only be postponed for another time. It isn't the first time we've had this discussion and it is highly doubtful it will be the last.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I guess I don't know how this would actually work IRL. It would just seem like *i'm* the b@tch. I mean, a person is fully within their boundaries to ask, "What does KG plan to major in?" Other people ask this often and I don't think it's nosy or annoying. It's the questions that come after my answer that make me sorry I'm stuck talking to SIL.

 

So I say, "probably English and/or Creative Writing."

Her face immediately looks like she just smelled bad cheese and she says, "What kind of JOB can you get with *that*?"

I say, "Well, there are lots of business or government work that needs strong communications; marketing, advertising, web development..."

She says, "then why doesn't she get a business degree?"

I say, "She doesn't WANT a business degree."

At this point, a distraction intervened and so the conversation naturally ended.

 

I just hate that it ends like this, because no understanding happened and the discomfort of the conversation will only be postponed for another time. It isn't the first time we've had this discussion and it is highly doubtful it will be the last.

There's no getting the jump on somebody like that. Ugh.

 

I might be facing more of these...the golden boy of mine who has an amazing classical ed. transcript and amazing test scores and a calling into ministry (he thought until recently) PLUS the connections to get started...is seriously considering not going to college at all and becoming an electrician like his dad. Which would be fine -- we have a strong family history of skilled tradesmen and it wouldn't even be surprising or disappointing -- but the family who has disapproved of rigorous classical homeschooling all this time will likely have a lot to say to me about that "unnecessary" study all these years. I will NOT want to hear it.

 

Or he will go to college and seminary after all. I have no idea. He's planning to apply to a few places and see how the financial aid shakes out. My hair is turning from graying to white over this roller coaster with him.

[creekland]

but the family who has disapproved of rigorous classical homeschooling all this time will likely have a lot to say to me about that "unnecessary" study all these years. I will NOT want to hear it.

 

This is where it is good to be solid in your beliefs/thoughts.  No one can EVER take your son's education away from him and he is FAR better off with it than without it - even if he wanted to live under the boardwalk and be a beach bum.

 

Talking with intelligent people (doing any job/profession) is rewarding and fun.  Talking with those who only know the basics about life is far less so.

 

HAVING a decent education to know what various people are talking about is rewarding.  Being the one who doesn't understand what is being talked about can make one feel inadequate (at best).

 

You've done well regardless of the path your guy wants.  Kudos to you!  Who cares what they think?  I'd definitely be sticking up for my guy and I doubt he'll wish he'd done less as he ages and experiences life.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

This is where it is good to be solid in your beliefs/thoughts.  No one can EVER take your son's education away from him and he is FAR better off with it than without it - even if he wanted to live under the boardwalk and be a beach bum.

 

Talking with intelligent people (doing any job/profession) is rewarding and fun.  Talking with those who only know the basics about life is far less so.

 

HAVING a decent education to know what various people are talking about is rewarding.  Being the one who doesn't understand what is being talked about can make one feel inadequate (at best).

 

You've done well regardless of the path your guy wants.  Kudos to you!  Who cares what they think?  I'd definitely be sticking up for my guy and I doubt he'll wish he'd done less as he ages and experiences life.

Thanks. That is nice to hear. :grouphug: 

 

He's thankful for his homeschool education already, and I believe in it enough to keep going with the other three (two of whom are even more likely to go into the trades). I do believe a strong classical/traditional foundation is best for every student who is capable of pursuing it.

[Barbara H]

One approach is to just be gushy positive "we couldn't be more proud of her"... "she absolutely loves it and it is so great to see her happy".... "She's incredibly lucky to have these opportunities and she's doing such a fantastic job with all of it"    This is the approach we've used for haters and unless people are flat out jerks it is hard for most people to respond to 100% enthusiasm and happiness with negativity.

[idnib]

So I say, "probably English and/or Creative Writing."

Her face immediately looks like she just smelled bad cheese and she says, "What kind of JOB can you get with *that*?"

 

"Oh my goodness, there are so many! Where to start?" (Appear flustered because you have to deal with so much information.) Then reel off some names/professions from here, here, and here. 

[Hoggirl]

Creekland, I am truly in awe of your graciousness. I just don't have it in me.

 

Haters gonna hate, and no matter what your kid is doing, where s/he is going to college, what s/he is majoring in someone is going to disagree with the path that has been chosen.

 

I don't have the patience to try to explain my child's choices. Or our family's choices. I generally try the, "We're so happy for ds," gushing approach. If that doesn't work, I turn to passing the bean dip (so glad to see this reference still in play!). If THAT doesn't work and the person continues to push, I turn to snark. It's no one's business. No one's. This includes family/in-laws.

 

As others have mentioned, homeschoolers are used to dealing with lots of questions. When we did homeschool, I developed a pretty good radar for discerning who had legitimate interest/questions and who did not. I loved homeschooling and loved sharing our story with those who were genuinely interested/curious. Once the line crossed to criticism, I would shut them down. I remember being at a party when a total stranger started questioning (challlenging) homeschooling ad nauseum, and when I had enough, I shut her completely down by saying, "Oh, you don't need to worry. Me and Bubba learn him real good at home," and turned and walked away.

 

I understand that it's hard. Family can't be avoided. When they press, I go on the offensive, "Why would you ask that?" "What do you mean by that?" "Why do you care so much?" "Wow. What an inappropriate thing to say." And then give the stare. And the raised eye-brow if you can do it.

 

Sorry. I shall stop my rant. It's no doubt spurred on by the fact that my PITA father-in-law is here for ds's graduation which is tomorrow.

 

Quill, don't let people like your sister-in-law suck the life out of you like that. It's just not worth it.

[Harriet Vane]

I guess I don't know how this would actually work IRL. It would just seem like *i'm* the b@tch. I mean, a person is fully within their boundaries to ask, "What does KG plan to major in?" Other people ask this often and I don't think it's nosy or annoying. It's the questions that come after my answer that make me sorry I'm stuck talking to SIL.

 

So I say, "probably English and/or Creative Writing."

Her face immediately looks like she just smelled bad cheese and she says, "What kind of JOB can you get with *that*?"

I say, "Well, there are lots of business or government work that needs strong communications; marketing, advertising, web development..."

She says, "then why doesn't she get a business degree?"

I say, "She doesn't WANT a business degree."

At this point, a distraction intervened and so the conversation naturally ended.

 

I just hate that it ends like this, because no understanding happened and the discomfort of the conversation will only be postponed for another time. It isn't the first time we've had this discussion and it is highly doubtful it will be the last.

 

I have a degree in English and Rhetoric (double major). I went into publishing. I worked full-time in two different publishing companies (editing, proofreading, management) and I have freelanced for years as a proofreader, editor, and writing coach/writing tutor.

 

I could easily have chosen to get an education degree (either BA or a Master's) and gone into teaching.

 

There are other valid career paths. Your son should have an idea what those paths are and try to get some experience to hone his interests (internships and the like). Having a degree in English has served me well.

 

[Jenny in Florida]

How does this look? Does Aunt Hazel say, "marine Science?! What kind of job can you get with that?" And you say...what?

 

I shrug and say something like, "Kid has thought a lot about this choice, and I have confidence he/she will make it work."

 

Edited to add: I have a fair amount of practice with this kind of thing, since my daughter has a degree in theatre/music and my son is headed for a musical theatre/dance degree. Because both of mine are quite clearly extremely intellectually gifted, people are often surprised that neither has gone/is going the expected route into law or medicine or something STEM related. 

 

Like conversations about most other non-traditional choices we've made, I find that these conversations are much less stressful when I feel genuinely secure in my own choices and judgment. Since I really do believe that my kids are making the educational choices that are appropriate for them and that they will do well in their chosen paths, it's not at all difficult for me to say as much with confidence.

[creekland]

Creekland, I am truly in awe of your graciousness. I just don't have it in me.

 

I think my "deal" is I just like to "win," and I've never "won" by turning snarky.  I don't always win by explaining either, but I've never lost.  We just sometimes end in an "agree to disagree" deal.  Whenever anyone answers in a snarky deal (any topic) it just seems to enforce the other side's opinion.

 

Afterward, hubby and I can share some of "what we'd like to have said" moments, but we do keep them to ourselves or with kindred spirits.  ;)

 

Like conversations about most other non-traditional choices we've made, I find that these conversations are much less stressful when I feel genuinely secure in my own choices and judgment. Since I really do believe that my kids are making the educational choices that are appropriate for them and that they will do well in their chosen paths, it's not at all difficult for me to say as much with confidence.

 

Same here.

 

If youngest doesn't end up on the water (or close to it), he could end up acting or similar.  He leads his high school Improv club and I got to see him perform on a recent "festival" day we have at school.  I know I'm his mom, but the lad is GOOD.  Many others noticed too.  Many, many others.  He does plan to join Improv at college - and that group competes.  I suppose we'll find out then if he has what it takes at a higher level.  This kid is not musical.  He never signed up for any of our high school performances because they were all musicals... he only likes acting (as I told our performance person after she asked wondering how she'd missed him these past 4 years). 

 

I had a high school peer who is now in Hollywood as an actor having gotten there "accidentally" rather than intentionally.  Seeing my guy perform brought back memories of him.  I haven't said a word to my guy.  I just wonder what path he'll end up on.  Time will tell.

[FaithManor]

I handle it in very much the same way that Creekland does, but if the person still doesn't back down after that conversation, then I get serious about establishing a "This is no longer up for discussion" boundary.

 

We are going through this right now with ds. He switched from computer software engineering to English/journalism and a minor in music. It really does fit his personality better and I have no doubt that some day he'll write for a newspaper, news agency, or magazine. He'd love to write for Popular Science, Archaeology, etc. He's talented and passionate about it so I'm sure he'll work hard to jump whatever hoops are necessary to become employed in his field.

 

But with sister who majored in chemistry and works as a paramedic in front of him, and two brothers behind one intending on majoring in biology and ecology the other aerospace engineering and astrophysics, he feels like the odd man out, and some of the extended family and church acquaintances have treated him this way since in their estimation comp sci sounded more impressive.

 

Ds also has a JAVA certification and will use this skill, if necessary, to help support himself while he tries to find a writing job. When he brings this up, the naysayers tend to pipe down. This is an indication to me that all these people are concerned about is the "get a job, earn big money" aspect of college and not the education, develop personal talents part of it.

 

Due to the change in major, it has changed his list of schoos to apply to as well, and he's taken flack for that as well.

[Beth in OH]

I shrug and say something like, "Kid has thought a lot about this choice, and I have confidence he/she will make it work."

 

Edited to add: I have a fair amount of practice with this kind of thing, since my daughter has a degree in theatre/music and my son is headed for a musical theatre/dance degree. Because both of mine are quite clearly extremely intellectually gifted, people are often surprised that neither has gone/is going the expected route into law or medicine or something STEM related. 

 

Like conversations about most other non-traditional choices we've made, I find that these conversations are much less stressful when I feel genuinely secure in my own choices and judgment. Since I really do believe that my kids are making the educational choices that are appropriate for them and that they will do well in their chosen paths, it's not at all difficult for me to say as much with confidence.

 

Agree on all counts.  I also  point out that this generation doesn't have the same "climb the corporate ladder" career opportunities that we might have had.  Many young people are having to create their own opportunities regardless of field of study.  Heck--I've had to create my own opportunities after years of raising children.  The world is changing.  Always.

 

ETA:  I have one dd who has had some fancy academic opportunities.  It's funny, because some people believe that she's my kid who is "good enough" to have a career in her field.  Haha!  Nope.  It doesn't work that way--once you hit a certain level (which encompasses training at many, many schools other than major conservatories), you are "good enough".  The rest is hard work, controlling the mental game, creating opportunities, and lucky breaks.  

[Jane in NC]

We have had people comment on my son's "hobby degree" (not my description!) along the line of "But how will he make a living?"  Archaeology is just a hobby, right?  Whatever...

 

I did take the time to attempt to educate a woman who actually began a recent conversation by chastising those interested in the Liberal Arts.  I listened to her then made note that my son attends (well, attended since he has since graduated) a fine Liberal Arts School which has directed him toward amazing opportunities.  She was sniggering, I suspect.  Whatever...

 

My son has watched his father, the software engineer, go off to work in his cubicle. He made the conscious decision that he did not want that life.  He understands that he will not have his father's income.  That is not his goal.  We know other young people who are making decisions not based on quantity but on the quality of life.  This is hard to discuss with materialists who value paychecks over contentment.  (I am not saying that anyone going into engineering, computer science, etc. is choosing a materialist future. I am trying to say that not everyone is meant for an engineering or medical field.  There is still room in this world for the liberal arts!)

[Jenny in Florida]

My son has watched his father, the software engineer, go off to work in his cubicle. He made the conscious decision that he did not want that life.  He understands that he will not have his father's income.  That is not his goal.  We know other young people who are making decisions not based on quantity but on the quality of life.  This is hard to discuss with materialists who value paychecks over contentment.  (I am not saying that anyone going into engineering, computer science, etc. is choosing a materialist future. I am trying to say that not everyone is meant for an engineering or medical field.  There is still room in this world for the liberal arts!)

 

It's all kind of funny to me, actually, because I went to college in the early 1980s, a time when employers as a group woke up one day and decided that the graduates they had been hiring who had specialized, career-centric degrees were not working out all that well. For a few years, there was a push to encourage students to major in liberal arts, because those were the degrees that actually taught people to think, rather than to master a given set of information. The pendulum has swung the other way since my day, but I am beginning to hear rumblings that a similar group epiphany is on its way. 

 

So, I am firmly convinced that the "right" major is the one that is right for that particular student in the long run, not based on what employers think they need right now.

 

We have a similar exemplar in our family, my husband, who trudges off to work every day in his business casual clothes to sit in his cubicle and is often (mostly) uninspired and miserable. We've taught our kids that there are, in the most basic terms, two ways to look at work: You can work to live, meaning you do a job that provides a paycheck that allows you to otherwise live your life in a relatively pleasant way. Or you can live to work, meaning you have a career that you love that pays at least enough to keep you financially afloat. Both choices involve sacrifices. So, it's a question of each individual's priorities. Having grown up watching their dad in his "work-to-live" job, both of my kids are comfortable choosing the other path.

[Nan in Mass]

We get the why-would-you-want-to-do-that/why-would-you-let-them-do-that comments from time to time, since we often stray off the beaten path.  How I respond depends on who is speaking.  If they are family or close friends, i assume they are genuinely concerned and I try to reassure them by explaining why we think this will work, or I tell them that the choice worries us, also, but our son presented a good argument.  (I completely ignore the issue of how much control I have over the choice.)  If they are not close and they know that we are involved with whatever they are critisizing, I look slightly suprised that they would say something so rude to my face and change the subject.  If they say No, but really..., I smile and say we are hoping it works out, and encourage them to do all the talking.  Almost always, they are uninterested in what I have to say.  They just want to pass along their worries.  After they are done, I can repeat the we're hoping it all works out statement and we move on to other things.  If they insist on knowing what I have to say, I have to decide whether this person is really concerned about my particular children (which is perfectly possible) or whether they have some other motive.  If they are genuinely concerned, I try to offer what comfort I can.  If not, I go back to smiling in a surprised way and ask about their own children's plans or something else distracting.  If they are not close and they don't know that we are involved with whatever they are critisizing, I listen politely and change the subject as soon as possible or suddenly remember something that needs doing, and leave someone else to tell them they've put their foot in their mouth.

 

It all comes down to whether I think this person needs comforting or not.  : )  If all else fails, I've found "Can we talk about something else?" usually works.  I say my children are old enough that I try not to talk about them behind their backs, if the person won't let go of the topic.

 

Nan

[elegantlion]

I adore you all. My university just added a Creative Writing and Publishing major. I'm still waiting to see the required classes to see if I could double major and I am so tempted. 

 

I walked into a debate in another online writing group asking about job opportunities with a CW degree. One man was bitter and adamant that no one at the college level could teach you anything about the job of publishing or CW and that nursing was the degree you needed (he had a CW degree, btw). Most of the others gave relevant feedback, even my sister chimed in with support. I mentioned he was throwing out sweeping generalizations and asked for specific input - then he huffed off in a snit. 

 

For a relative offering unsolicited advice, I don't know. I agree with Beth, this generation of graduates (even us old ones) are going to have to make their own opportunities. If someone is talking about me and my degree, I'd probably dismiss their remarks easier. For ds, I'd probably smile and say I'm glad ds is getting a chance to pursue his interests, with a mama bear look in my eye. 

[albeto.]

How does this look? Does Aunt Hazel say, "marine Science?! What kind of job can you get with that?" And you say...what?

 

"If we're lucky, he'll get to sweep the fish heads off the dock before going home to the poor-house every night!"

 

I find that if I increase their fears to the umpteeth percent and show the absurdity of it, they can't argue because I'm agreeing with them. Also, they know right away not to expect a realistic conversation. There's no point when the person you want to argue with agrees with your every fear, and then some. 

 

I learned that when my father in law was anxious about my nursing my baby at 18 months. He thought the child would never be weaned. I agreed. I said I hope the Kindergarten teacher and I can make some arrangement for me to come in during recess. That stopped the conversation because that was exactly his fear, only when it was said out loud, everyone laughed and it sounded absurd. Because it was.

 

Satire. It's your friend.  

 

 

ETA: Depending on the situation, of course. A serious concern is treated with seriousness, but in my experience, comments intended to make a point were slapped down. 

[Brigid in NC]

I'm afraid I would not be as gracious as some who have posted responses.  Boy, I think I would make it crystal clear that I do not appreciate any put downs.  They can think it and talk it to others all they want.  But not to this momma bear. <_< Tell them to go read Outliers.  And watch "Shift Happens."  We are training kids for jobs that did not even exist a few years ago. 

[Jane in NC]

It's all kind of funny to me, actually, because I went to college in the early 1980s, a time when employers as a group woke up one day and decided that the graduates they had been hiring who had specialized, career-centric degrees were not working out all that well. For a few years, there was a push to encourage students to major in liberal arts, because those were the degrees that actually taught people to think, rather than to master a given set of information. The pendulum has swung the other way since my day, but I am beginning to hear rumblings that a similar group epiphany is on its way. 

 

So, I am firmly convinced that the "right" major is the one that is right for that particular student in the long run, not based on what employers think they need right now.

 

We have a similar exemplar in our family, my husband, who trudges off to work every day in his business casual clothes to sit in his cubicle and is often (mostly) uninspired and miserable. We've taught our kids that there are, in the most basic terms, two ways to look at work: You can work to live, meaning you do a job that provides a paycheck that allows you to otherwise live your life in a relatively pleasant way. Or you can live to work, meaning you have a career that you love that pays at least enough to keep you financially afloat. Both choices involve sacrifices. So, it's a question of each individual's priorities. Having grown up watching their dad in his "work-to-live" job, both of my kids are comfortable choosing the other path.

Jenny, your comments resonate with me.

 

Back in the day, there was no such thing as a computer science major. Companies like IBM hired liberal arts people who could think as well as Math majors.  One of my friends had a two year degree in respiratory therapy which was the ticket she needed to land a job at a major research hospital. Suddenly things changed and it became clear that she would never get a promotion unless she had a four year degree like the new hires.  So she had to return to school part time while working full time. Anyone who thinks that they can predict the next big thing in technology or what degree is the hot ticket for 10, 20 years down the road is probably fooling themselves. 

 

Fortunately my husband loves his job (for the most part).  My son has seen his Dad feel a great level of satisfaction from his chosen field--something that we have encouraged The Boy to emulate. 

 

Naysayers perpetually astound me.  There would be no progress, no innovation without someone going against the grain.  Further, I live in an area where not all high school grads attend college--even fewer finish in four years as our son just did.  Fortunately extended family and dear friends are cheering The Boy on.  They recognize that archaeology has been his recognized passion since he was fifteen--something that I should have recognized at a much younger age.  (There were signs like the trip to Arizona at age ten or so when we had to follow gravel roads for miles to see certain petroglyphs in a National Forest or age 12 when we stood along Hadrian's Wall while we looked at a Roman fort from above as he told us precisely what each building footprint was--without having stepped foot in the fort. He just knew what a Roman layout should be.) 

 

My now 22 year old is pursuing his dream. If it does not pan out, he has other skill sets--as well as a four year degree.  Trust me, at the moment he is one happy camper.  But then he is in his beloved Britain hanging out with his archaeology pals (including his English girlfriend).  Fortunately there is a greater appreciation of history there!

[elegantlion]

 

To this day I regret not pursuing my dream. I really wanted to go to college for music. I don't know where that would have led me, but it is where my heart was.

 

This is why I WILL NOT make my son major in "something employable". I don't want him to get to a point in life where he wonders why he didn't pursue his enjoyment.

 

:grouphug:

[bettyandbob]

 

To this day I regret not pursuing my dream. I really wanted to go to college for music. I don't know where that would have led me, but it is where my heart was.

 

This is why I WILL NOT make my son major in "something employable". I don't want him to get to a point in life where he wonders why he didn't pursue his enjoyment.

 

This is me. My dream was actually very practical (physical therapy). There were only three careers "good enough" in my family. It was impossible for me to stand up and do what I wanted --no confidence and very dependent on parental approval.

 

Now, I'm older, but life has intervened, so no pursuing that dream.

 

Money's tight, but we plan to do everything we can for our dc to get a degree in whatever they want to pursue. Then, careers are up to them. There are lots of people with English degrees who have jobs. There are many directions one could go with such a degree. It is up to the student to figure out what direction he/she wants to take.

[MysteryJen]

I do not engage. At all. I shrug and say, you should talk to ds1.  And they never want to. After all, it is easier to be rude behind someone's back, than to their face.

 

He is not a child and can talk about his own decisions. The world needs all kinds of people, or how boring it would be!

[Crimson Wife]

FWIW, some of my high school and college friends were English majors and they are doing VERY well career-wise. Smart people with good writing skills are in demand.

[Ann.without.an.e]

DD has considered Architectural engineering.  She is an amazing artist.  It is a dead field though.  It is okay to pick a career that is not in high demand as long as you are confident that you will stand out above the competition.  You can't go into English or Liberal Arts and do "okay" in the program.  You need to excel.  Regardless of how many people are or are not heading into a particular field of study, the world will still need Marine Biologists and English majors, it just doesn't need a million of them  :001_smile:

[Jane in NC]

DD has considered Architectural engineering.  She is an amazing artist.  It is a dead field though.  It is okay to pick a career that is not in high demand as long as you are confident that you will stand out above the competition.  You can't go into English or Liberal Arts and do "okay" in the program.  You need to excel.  Regardless of how many people are or are not heading into a particular field of study, the world will still need Marine Biologists and English majors, it just doesn't need a million of them  :001_smile:

 

And does the world need a million business degrees?

 

I'm not sure I understand your point.  Of course students who excel and who display passion in their fields will do better.  But why pick on Liberal Arts? 

 

ETA:  I had to google Architectural engineering to see how if differed from architecture and civil engineering. Dead field?  It would seem that structural engineering would never go out of style!

[albeto.]

I'm not sure I understand your point.  

 

If I understand correctly, an analogy might be professional sports. If that's the dream of a child, go for it. But by all means they should recognize the likelihood of landing a job in their dream career is what, less than getting struck by lightning? Or something. Anyway, being practical has its advantages, and many dream careers simply are not practical. 

 

I don't think marine science, or any hard science, is a dead field, though. There are many grants that fund research for exploration and advancement of knowledge. Learning how to find and write good grants is essential, btw, so Quill, I'd make sure you child knows how to write using pertinent buzz words without sounding like a schmuck. 

[Jane in NC]

If I understand correctly, an analogy might be professional sports. If that's the dream of a child, go for it. But by all means they should recognize the likelihood of landing a job in their dream career is what, less than getting struck by lightning? Or something. Anyway, being practical has its advantages, and many dream careers simply are not practical. 

 

I don't think marine science, or any hard science, is a dead field, though. There are many grants that fund research for exploration and advancement of knowledge. Learning how to find and write good grants is essential, btw, so Quill, I'd make sure you child knows how to write using pertinent buzz words without sounding like a schmuck. 

 

I certainly do not equate a job in marine bio or one as a writer or in theatre as improbable as that of a professional athlete.

 

The OP was looking for some support here.  I don't believe that it was her intention to see her daughter being dissed by fellow boardies who view her choices as impractical!

 

Further, who is say that a student in the liberal arts lacks some of those so called practical skills.  Most engineers I know did not have time to double major in a second language, for example.  That English or Philosophy major may have an entrepreneurial venture going on the side. 

 

Sorry--the word "practical" just pushes my buttons!  Maybe I should slip out of here while I can....

 

[idnib]

Back in the day, there was no such thing as a computer science major. Companies like IBM hired liberal arts people who could think as well as Math majors. 

 

Completely agree. I've been lucky enough to meet, and in some cases befriend, many pioneers in computing. The majority of them have degrees in math, physics, music, literature, or English. One of my closest friends, who has over 70 computing patents in multiple countries, majored in Communications. Music seems to be an especially common one among the pioneers. And many computing experts who did not major in music still seem to play multiple instruments and/or are in a band.

 

They are just Thinkers, with a capital T.

 

Most of them have gotten big computing ideas from doing drugs too, but let's not go there.  :lol:

[Ann.without.an.e]

And does the world need a million business degrees?

 

I'm not sure I understand your point.  Of course students who excel and who display passion in their fields will do better.  But why pick on Liberal Arts? 

 

ETA:  I had to google Architectural engineering to see how if differed from architecture and civil engineering. Dead field?  It would seem that structural engineering would never go out of style!

 

 

You put a completely different spin on what I was saying.  I wasn't picking on liberal arts.  I personally feel the same way about "Business Degrees".  My husband has several men with business degrees who work under him and make minimum wage.  My point was this -  make sure you truly have a passion and the ability to excel.  If you do?  Why hesitate to do what you love?  If you love English and you are confident that you will succeed then go for it and don't apologize!  If you love Marine Biology and you are confident you will stand out among the graduates....go for it!  Don't let the graduate to job ratio hold you back if you are confident you will succeed.  At the same time, the graduate to job ratio is a real issue.  If there will be 20,000 graduates every year for a particular degree but only 500 job openings that match the degree then yes, you need to put some serious thought into it.  I know of a few barely passing, half heart marine biology students who are cleaning fish tanks at Pet Smart for minimum wage.  I also know an engineer (a "hot" field) who is teaching jr high because he couldn't get a job as an engineer.  So it can happen in any field if you don't have the passion, drive, and excellence that is required.

[Jane in NC]

You put a completely different spin on what I was saying.  I wasn't picking on liberal arts.  I personally feel the same way about "Business Degrees".  My husband has several men with business degrees who work under him and make minimum wage.  My point was this -  make sure you truly have a passion and the ability to excel.  If you do?  Why hesitate to do what you love?  If you love English and you are confident that you will succeed then go for it and don't apologize!  If you love Marine Biology and you are confident you will stand out among the graduates....go for it!  Don't let the graduate to job ratio hold you back if you are confident you will succeed.  At the same time, the graduate to job ratio is a real issue.  If there will be 20,000 graduates every year for a particular degree but only 500 job openings that match the degree then yes, you need to put some serious thought into it.  I know of a few barely passing, half heart marine biology students who are cleaning fish tanks at Pet Smart for minimum wage.  I also know an engineer (a "hot" field) who is teaching jr high because he couldn't get a job as an engineer.  So it can happen in any field if you don't have the passion, drive, and excellence that is required.

Thank you for the clarification--although I will add that today's job market for a particular degree does not necessarily reflect tomorrow's. None of us has that crystal ball.