how do you rate local community college??

[teeterbunch]

I often read in threads that people have access to a good or bad local community college.  How do you know if it's good or bad?   Thanks.

 

Ashley

[G5052]

Look at the percentage who transfer to 4-year schools, pass their nursing exams, get jobs with the vocational programs, etc. etc.  On a related note, look at how many and what kind of guaranteed transfer agreements they have with other schools.

 

If a school just exists unto itself without ongoing relationships with other schools and a decent number of students who go on to more education, you can't assume that dual enrollment or a degree from there will go the distance if your plan is a 4-year degree.

 

I work for a good one that is part of a state system that is very tied into the 4-year schools.  We have solid transfer agreements with clear paths where students get a two-year degree and go right into the last 2 years of college at a 4-year school with guaranteed admissions if all of the requirements are met.  I teach off of the same set of criteria that they do at the four-year school, and I've never seen evidence of grade inflation.  Our nursing, surgical tech, etc. students have a 95%+ pass rate on their boards, and many of the 2-year programs (legal assisting, welding, automotive technology, etc.) are nationally certified.

 

That said, I always tell local parents that community college is a different animal than a 4-year school.  Our completion rate of a 2-year degree within 5 years is less than 25%.  Compare that with the 4-years we feed into who have a 5-year completion rates of a 4-year degree of 68-80%.  There is a very real culture of failure and a fair number who probably are wasting their money.  About 1/4 of my classes typically fail, and I've had a few where it was closer to 1/3-1/2.  Thankfully they don't give me a bad time about that, but it is disheartening.

[FaithManor]

I look at graduation statistics, variety and depth of courses offered, number of universities that accept their credits as more than electives, employment rates, faculty retention, and even try to talk to some of the faculty to get a feel for the place.

 

The one that is within 10 miles of us is VERY poor. Low completion rates, almost no one wants to take their credits, mostly business courses and licensing programs with only a couple of associate's degrees offered, no foreign languages, fine arts, or history courses offered, almost no standards for faculty.

 

The one an hour from here is VERY well reputed amongst our state flagships and many private colleges. They many PH.D's on their faculty, fairly happy faculty, pretty decent employment rates, a HUGE variety of course offerings, and are not afraid to fail students. The crappy one near us has a policy that the student is a customer and the customer is always right. I know a member of the faculty who has failed students who slept through class, turned in less than half the required assignments, and received extraordinarily low grades only to have the "dean" change the grades in order to keep the "customers coming back".

 

It takes some good research to investigate these schools in states where there is little or no regulation of community colleges, as is the case here in Michigan.

[teeterbunch]

Look at the percentage who transfer to 4-year schools, pass their nursing exams, get jobs with the vocational programs, etc. etc.  On a related note, look at how many and what kind of guaranteed transfer agreements they have with other schools.

 

If a school just exists unto itself without ongoing relationships with other schools and a decent number of students who go on to more education, you can't assume that dual enrollment or a degree from there will go the distance if your plan is a 4-year degree.

 

I work for a good one that is part of a state system that is very tied into the 4-year schools.  We have solid transfer agreements with clear paths where students get a two-year degree and go right into the last 2 years of college at a 4-year school with guaranteed admissions if all of the requirements are met.  I teach off of the same set of criteria that they do at the four-year school, and I've never seen evidence of grade inflation.  Our nursing, surgical tech, etc. students have a 95%+ pass rate on their boards, and many of the 2-year programs (legal assisting, welding, automotive technology, etc.) are nationally certified.

 

That said, I always tell local parents that community college is a different animal than a 4-year school.  Our completion rate of a 2-year degree within 5 years is less than 25%.  Compare that with the 4-years we feed into who have a 5-year completion rates of a 4-year degree of 68-80%.  There is a very real culture of failure and a fair number who probably are wasting their money.  About 1/4 of my classes typically fail, and I've had a few where it was closer to 1/3-1/2.  Thankfully they don't give me a bad time about that, but it is disheartening.

That's very helpful.  Do you mind my asking what state you are in?

 

Ashley

[foxbridgeacademy]

What FaithManor said....

Our local CC is state wide with 31 locations. Students from the border counties of neighboring states get in state tuition prices.  They have a great transfer agreement with all 4 of the main state colleges and I'm pretty sure the private colleges take their credits too.  The State University Professors teach classes at them.  They offer assoc. degrees in 60+ different disciplines. But their graduation rate is low, I think that has more to do with our poor economy and that a huge percentage of the students are in one of 2 categories.  First you have people taking classes to help improve their job prospects who might not really figure on graduating... my bil is in this category.  He doesn't necessarily need a degree to move up in his company, just to seem like he's improving himself is good enough.  The other is first time students right out of H.S. who need an extra year to prepare and show they can do the work.  They move on to the 4 years quickly or drop out. 

 

[Heather in VA]

I rate ours as 'Very Expensive'. I have been reading all these posts with long lists of courses kids are taking at the local CC. I just don't get how anyone affords it. Ours run nearly $700 a class (plus books). It's actually cheaper to do dual enrollment with a few of the 4 year universities I've looked into. So while ours is supposed to be "good", it's way more than I would think a CC should cost.

[creekland]

I rate ours as 'Very Expensive'. I have been reading all these posts with long lists of courses kids are taking at the local CC. I just don't get how anyone affords it. Ours run nearly $700 a class (plus books). It's actually cheaper to do dual enrollment with a few of the 4 year universities I've looked into. So while ours is supposed to be "good", it's way more than I would think a CC should cost.

 

Ours costs $250 per credit hour (so $750 for a 3 hour course) a few years ago when my older two took classes.

 

And even then I don't rate it as "good" based upon the content in their English class (something I could compare).

 

However, we still chose to have them take courses so they would have some outside validation for their transcripts.  We just chose classes carefully to fill in where I felt I couldn't do as well (like English senior year - my comparison was from MY high school English class - far more rigorous - but I'm not an English person, so...).  We also chose Public Speaking and Microbio - two classes that are difficult to reproduce well at home.

 

I've since been able to compare our cc to my guys' (and a few others) 4 year schools.  It definitely doesn't go into as much depth for the classes I've been able to compare (English, Bio, Calc).

 

[Jane in NC]

My local CC has a 30% graduation rate which is not impressive--and the college does not list the transfer rate on the government reporting site IPEDS! The second nearest CC (which has more offerings than my local one) has a 20% graduation rate but a 35% transfer rate. 

 

These numbers are a bit mind numbing for me.  I know a number of CC grads and transfers.  It is not unusual for students around here to get a year or two of classes under their belts before transferring to an in-state university in the hope of saving money through lower tuition and by living at home.

 

I wonder if the numbers are low because IPEDS requires the school to list the percentage of students who graduate within 150% of "normal time". It is true that many of the students here who start at the CC are not beginning an Associate's track with college level courses.  Many take a semester or two of developmental courses first. Perhaps many are working on degrees on a part time basis.  I don't know.

 

I do know that we have some good instructors, some poor.  The science lab facilities are decent.  There are a couple of good tech programs.  I don't know why anyone interested in culinary arts would pay to go to a pricey program when the CC in a nearby city has a good one.

 

Word of mouth can be tricky.  Some students give high marks to easy instructors when your kid should really be in a course with a tough one.  There is a history instructor with a reputation for being great at the local CC.  His lectures are thorough as are his exams but he does not have the students write the research papers that should be produced in a college level history course.  My friend who formerly taught at the nearby regional university said that CC transfer students with straight As were failing his classes because they did not know how to use primary resources.  So while the CC professor gave a thorough background in terms of information, he was not having the students do more than regurgitate his own opinions when writing exam essays.  Is that really what a good instructor does?

[G5052]

Yes, pricey.  Locally a 3-credit class with the various fees is $415.  Even though it is part of the state system, each college sets its own fees -- and that's on the low side.  If my oldest ends up driving further to another one for better transfer credit, it will cost us $500+ more a semester in tuition.  I'm looking into having him graduate from the local one but transfer in the 3 courses they don't teach as electives.  They can be taken online at the other college.

 

I'm not a fan of universally graduating your DC at 16 y.o. and sending them to the community college, but that's the trend in my area because the cost is actually less than some of the paid classes.  We were at a teen event last night with 6 graduates, and 5 of them are 16 y.o. and going to community college.  Every family of course has to make their own choices, but mine will be a little older and are easing in with dual enrollment.  

[In The Great White North]

Useless.  

 

Based on lack of any general ed courses that I couldn't teach myself.

[Butler]

Here are the rankings done by Community College Week. It compares by graduation rates, types of degrees, etc.

 

http://www.ccweek.com/news/templates/template.aspx?articleid=3582&zoneid=7

 

 

Our community college is free for dual enrollment students. (homeschoolers have to pay for books, public school students get books paid for). They can take three classes per semester, so nine per year. No minimum age requirement. Entrance is by SAT/ACT or college placement tests in reading, writing and math.

[foxbridgeacademy]

Here are the rankings done by Community College Week. It compares by graduation rates, types of degrees, etc.

 

http://www.ccweek.com/news/templates/template.aspx?articleid=3582&zoneid=7

 

 

Our community college is free for dual enrollment students. (homeschoolers have to pay for books, public school students get books paid for). They can take three classes per semester, so nine per year. No minimum age requirement. Entrance is by SAT/ACT or college placement tests in reading, writing and math.

Which state/CC is this?  We may/may not move again in the next couple years and what dual enrollment options I have will actually play a big part in where we go.

[SkateLeft]

.

[Barbara H]

One really tough thing with two year schools is that it is almost impossible to do accurate statistics on completion and transfer rates. People use community colleges for a wide variety of purposes that aren't always about completing a degree or transferring.

 

As far as evaluating the community college, I suggest...

1. spend time looking through the course offering for the current semester. You can tell quite a lot just from that. What is the highest level of math they offer?  Do they offer any honors courses?

2. ask what kind of advising they offer - who does the advising? are they trained and if so how? do students have an assigned advisor or just see whatever random person happens to be in the office that day?

3. look at their website - how easy is it to find degree requirements and the path to graduation?

4. ask what resources they have for students who want to transfer - do they have a transfer advisor?

5. hang out on campus for the day - sit in on classes, sit in the coffee shop and see what it is like.

6. Do they have a Phi Theta Kappa chapter? What other organizations are there on campus?

 

What concerns me most at our local community college is that a lot of students are just floating through taking random courses without a clear degree plan in mind and they never see the same advisor more than once. Our state has one of the best articulation agreements in the country so it is very easy to transfer from community college to a four year public university having fully met general education requirements, but a lot of students do not understand how the system works and don't plan appropriately. So, even in the best case scenario kind of situation it can still be really tough for students to make best use of that system. Here's some information on my site that you might find to be helpful. http://homeschoolsuccess.com/community-college-for-homeschoolers/

[MarkT]

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/rankings_2013/community_rank.php

 

http://www.thebestschools.org/blog/2013/05/28/50-community-colleges-united-states/

 

http://www.stateuniversity.com/rank/score_rank_by_commc.html

 

http://money.cnn.com/pf/college/community-colleges/

 

 

 

 

[creekland]

Ours doesn't make any of those lists.  It was easier on the last one to sort by state to look at it.

[Bootsie]

At the three local CC, there are some great teachers teaching some great classes.  But, there are also a number of classes I would rate as poor.  There will be variety at any school, but I find the variety at the CC wider than at a 4-year school.  Today the student loan default rates were published in the local paper for the area colleges and universities.  The three CC had much higher student load default rates than did the 4-year colleges.  

[MarkT]

Ours doesn't make any of those lists.  It was easier on the last one to sort by state to look at it.

 

I only found our local one in the big 500 list by sorting by state.  The lookup function is broken.

 

I don't give much weight to any of these ranking systems.  

[angela in ohio]

The rankings don't have much bearing on our decision, though the CC we use is well-ranked,  because we aren't using them in the way they are rated (for a 2 year degree or a certificate.) Instead, I look at which freshman-level courses transfer to our competitive state university and the qualifications of the instructor. Once dc are on campus, it is easy to find out which courses are well-taught by word of mouth, too.