No more patience...am I teaching challenged?

[Hottater]

Crying as I type this, cause I am at my wits end. I have less patience with my children than other's children and I know this because when I co-op with others using Konos unit study I am way more relaxed.

 

Reading- That being said... I don't know if my kid is learning challenged too, or if it's just me. I yell a lot, because trying to get my kids to focus takes HOURS. For my oldest especially, he's 8 and will be 9 in August. Makes me wish I had red-shirted him before homeschooling. I started him out early. We did Abeka PreK 3 and Prek 4 and Opgttr at 4.5 and he reads ok. He's at his grade 3 level in reading. (I would have thought since I started him a year early he would have been a year ahead in reading, but I think he's at a normal 3rd grader's reading level.) We read 3rd grade abeka readers and classical illustrated series abridged books (Moby dick, red badge of courage).

 

Writing-I feebly tried to get him to write, so I forced him. He can do cursive and print and his handwriting is nice to look at, but writing in general is taking HOURS.

 

Grammar- We did FLL 1,2 which is primarily all oral and it was great in 1st and second grade. He is now 3rd.

 

Writing with some grammar- And we did WWE 1,2 (during his grade 1,2 years) and it was pulling teeth to the point of him crying, but I forced him anyway (yelling all the way.) He got through lesson 28 and I just stopped, cause it was killing my time with my other kids.

 

Spelling- He is a terrible speller too. I have switched 4 curriculum and settled on Rod and Staff grade 2. He is partially behind because I started him late and partially, because he can't remember it even after the millionth time and 4 curriculums later (I took a good one or two months per curriculum)- including some words from Easy Grammar. There = Thar, shoe=shoo.

 

Grammar-Today because his thought to paper is so SLOW, he's taken 2 hours for a 3 page nouns test. 3.5 plus hours to complete an easy grammar adjectives test (5 page test). I was diligent to review EVERYTHING before he started, and I corrected every page in that grammar workbook as we did each page since Sept. We didn't skip anything. I switched from FLL to Easy Grammar, cause it seemed to be a nice transition, and he needed to physically apply the knowledge.

 

Writing-2 hours for any type of writing assignment. I switched to Spectrum Writing after WWE2 because I thought something that was visual would break up things for him to conceptualize into chunks better, or so I think, at least he understands how to make a list, and a word web. His paragraphs are only 3 sentences long. And if I tell him to summarize a chapter of a book and write his summarization down, there goes another 2 hours (for 3 sentences). Does this sound like any other kid? Am I missing something?

 

Grammar- He got a 60% on his grammar nouns test, and a really low score on a verb test and I am feeling like a complete failure. Some curriculum writers are anti-testing, and some people are telling me - oh he's ok at his age.

 

I am cringing, because I elected to have him take the Stanford test next week, and if he is doing this poorly, I fear that the test results will show that I am a complete homeschool failure despite what others say. PLUS, trying to wait patiently for that type of test will surely make me go nuts. :cursing: :scared: Now, I know that he is nowhere near the type of remediation or need for medical aid my autistic nephews are at, so technically my problems are not that bad, but I need to know if I should ask a specialist to figure out what the heck is going on?

 

HELP!

 

With my kindy - she can actually do all her three R's in 2.5 hours.

 

Edited 5/31 to help the read be easier for others.

[Ethel Mertz]

By your description, it sounds like he is a typical 3rd grade boy. Do you have to test? (Is is a requirement in your state?) 

 

It sounds like a re-set button may be helpful. Listen to SWB's lectures on writing and other topics. Take a couple of weeks off and have some relaxed time with your boy. Do some fun things with your kids and nurture the parent/child relationship. Do whatever you have to do to de-stress -- for both you and him. 

 

I'm sure others will chime in with some suggestions. 

[MiMi 4under3]

By your description, it sounds like he is a typical 3rd grade boy. 

 

Your DS has actually completed a good amount of work. Congrats!

 

My son at that age HATED writing, and just about everything took hours and hours - but his younger sisters would zip through it in no time.  Very slowly he matured and improved on his own.  

 

Now, if given the choice of which subject to do first, he'll either pick "outlining" or "bear writing" (which is Evan Moore Writing Fabulous Sentences and Paragraphs.)  And he's usually finished before the twins.

 

Hang in there...   :)

[MyLittleBears]

Agree with pp. Don't test if you do not have too. Don't yell if you don't have too. It can be so unproductive and just serve to frustrate you and your dc. He sounds like a typical 3rd grade boy. If I required as much work from my boys as you have described at this age they would have revolted. I think it's time for some deep breath, tea, and some SWB lectures. FWIW we do not do any formal grammar until 5th grade. We read good book and listen to audio books rather than do formal reading program. IMHO it is not really necessary once they can read. It is better to work on fluency naturally with good book, than programs like Abeka which require a written component.

[sbgrace]

I have a child with major attention issues. He's extremely difficult to focus, and that's with me sitting right there with him for every single thing. I can't send him off to do anything alone. His twin, though, needed a lot of hand-holding too at your son's age. Even now, he does better with me.

 

I think you might be expecting too much independence and just work for his age and ability.

 

If there is regular tension/yelling/etc., I'd say it's not worth it. Whatever the underlying issue, something is off in a way that means stop. I'd step back and re-evaluate:

1. material you are using (is it the right choice)

2. expectations (is he capable of doing this alone, doing what is being asked, etc.)

 

I can't tell from your post whether there might be learning issues! Is he having trouble actually forming the writing (ala dysgraphia type things)? Is it instead keeping focused to complete what he's writing? A general dislike of it? I did (and do really) a lot of stuff orally. Does he do better if you write his thoughts down for him?

 

Spelling was a disaster with one of mine. Apples and Pears has helped. I wish I didn't wait so long for that!

[Heathermomster]

How is he with math facts?

[Hottater]

Math facts – could be a lot better. Word problems were always balked at. Multidigit things too.

 

Edit, I never did FLL3 I meant we did FLL 1,2 in first and 2nd grade and easy grammar this year in 3rd.

 

The hours that I quoted were with handholding.

 

What is dysgraphia?

 

Thanks for all the encouragement so far. I test because I need to know. And realistically,I believe that homeschooling is not necessarily homeschooling through high school for me -it's what God wills. If He thinks that I need to put my kids and to public school and then so be it. I actually considered putting him in public school if it's a personality conflict issue or a time management issue where he has a sense of urgency to get out the door and go to school and other people are waiting on him. I seriously hate the yelling. But when I feel ignored mommy monster comes out. Simple things like cleaning off the table when they are finished eating, pick up toys- none in the dining room... Those start every day. Then it gets into "stop whining or staring off into space and just look at what's in front of you.Stop expecting me to give you the answer and start to think about the answer yourself. Read the directions 3 times.

[sbgrace]

Math facts – could be a lot better. Word problems were always balked at. Multidigit things too.

 

Edit, I never did FLL3 I meant we did FLL 1,2 in first and 2nd grade and easy grammar this year in 3rd.

 

The hours that I quoted were with handholding.

 

What is dysgraphia?

 

Thanks for all the encouragement so far. I test because I need to know. And realistically,I believe that homeschooling is not necessarily homeschooling through high school for me -it's what God wills. If He thinks that I need to put my kids and to public school and then so be it. I actually considered putting him in public school if it's a personality conflict issue or a time management issue where he has a sense of urgency to get out the door and go to school and other people are waiting on him. I seriously hate the yelling. But when I feel ignored mommy monster comes out. Simple things like cleaning off the table when they are finished eating, pick up toys- none in the dining room... Those start every day. Then it gets into "stop whining and just look at what's in front of you.Stop expecting me to give you the answer and start to think about the answer yourself.

 

Dysgraphia signs:

younger signs http://www.ncld.org/types-learning-disabilities/dysgraphia/common-warning-signs-of-dysgraphia-in-children-pre-k-to-grade-2

older signs http://www.ncld.org/types-learning-disabilities/dysgraphia/common-warning-signs-of-dysgraphia-in-children-in-grades-3-8

 

You were sitting with him for hours for those grammar tests? Yikes. What was he doing/not doing that made it take so long?

 

Some kids just don't move or think fast. Some kids (mine) shut down when negative emotion gets high.

 

Something is wrong clearly. Whether that's a learning issue or expectations that don't fit or curriculum or personality...I don't know from what you wrote. It sounds like you really need to turn the atmosphere around. That has to start with you. It may involve altering expectations, materials, or both. The relationship is more important than finishing x or y.

[Hottater]

I sat with him for the first 20 minutes reviewing all of the grammar rules and what to remember to think about when answering the questions. I told him to take it into the kitchen so that he could focus. And he was probably looking out the window between every word and letter.I had helped my daughter in the other room do her homework while he was in the kitchen and would check back every 15 minutes. And when I saw his answers I knew that he wasn't really thinking about so I reread him the directions again. And told him to read it again. But it's the same things he's done before earlier in the year. His scores were pretty bad. My hubby thinks I should just give him an hour for the next test and if he doesn't get to the other questions just mark it wrong in red in front of him. Maybe his distain for getting them wrong would help him to stop procrastinating. Or whatever it is that is taking so long. I looked up the latter dysgraphia issues, and it's the thought to paper type issues. But his drawings are beautiful so I don't know if it's the same type of motor issues. I've been trying to help him hold his pencil more straight but he plays piano fine, and his cursive is nice when he puts his mind to it. It just seems to take soooo long.

[sbgrace]

Ok. If he has attention deficit issues (and he might, that sounds like considerable distraction) he may not be capable of maintaining the kind of focus needed to do what you expected of him. I suspect he isn't capable.

 

I have a 10 year old who couldn't do what you described. And it would not be because he didn't understand the grammar.

If you had read those questions to him when you had his full attention, and spread them out over days if necessary, could he have answered them? In other words, does he know the grammar tested? If not, it needs retaught, maybe in a different way. If he does know, what is the point of the test? It seems it is more harm than good in the way given anyway.

 

What your husband suggested may just be a discouragement. If he's not capable of the kind of focus needed, red marks in front of him won't make him suddenly able to focus, even if he really wants to. It may make him stop trying, or feel he disappointed you, or become angry or whatever based on his temperament, but it won't make him able to stop getting distracted. My son doesn't even need a window to get distracted! His own imagination will do it...and with me sitting next to him asking the questions.

 

 

You could look into assessment for ADHD and other learning issues. If there are underlying issues and you need focus like that, he may need medication. You need to know what is reasonable to expect from him.

 

I strongly suspect a more positive approach with him would help both of you. Find what he's doing right. Structure assignments so he succeeds. Celebrate the success with him. Tell him what you notice that you appreciate. Work so that the positives outweigh the negative interactions significantly (like 10 to 1 sort of outweigh). It will help both of you.

[Heathermomster]

If you want to know what is affecting your child's learning, you will need a full neuropsych evaluation. A NP can test for ADD/ADHD and any other learning issues.

 

I say this with respect...Every teaching method that you have described using with your boy runs completely counter to how a child with learning issues should be taught. I have done it myself. Thankfully, you can alter your approach with great results.

 

These students require explicit, multisensory instruction. Also, working memory and processing speed will likely be compromised, so you need to adjust your teaching to accommodate the deficits.

 

Basically, I suggest you start saving money to pay for testing. If you don't want to test now, wait six months and then go for it.

[Hottater]

Cbgrace -Wow, when you posted I totally felt like I was Charlie brown's teacher "whawawawa". Like, I wonder if that is how I sound to him.

Current types of reinforcement I do have – a white board with stars on it after every subject completed. Stickers for getting better at the subject or getting it done nicely. Could you suggest more examples of positive reinforcement or other methods that work for your sons? I have this positive and negative reinforcement thing going on in our house; if they get their work done quickly and then they get a star or extra free time if they do not get it done quickly, they lose their free time or  don't get a sticker or lose toys to the downstairs basement. He also does get a disappointment speech for me because he's wasting my time as well I would rather be doing other things than sitting with him mulling over subjects related to writing or things that he doesn't like etc. We all have to do things but we don't like. And he needs to start appreciating writing because it is so integral to what we have to do in life. I tell him about how writing is necessary for jobs and expressing ourselves. Some of the positive and negative reinforcement doesn't work because sometimes we don't start our lessons until 11 o'clock --because they are fooling around before we get started. So, they get a lot of play time aleady which makes us cram subjects in with less breaks aside from meals. So sometimes I do not get time to enforce his positive break reinforcements.

On the grammar testing situation – I need to know that it's in the long-term. His grammar has been taught all year long and he was required to do two pages a day for the beginning, and one page a day for the last three months . And, the one page he was able to do without taking two hours by himself. So I don't understand why testing has been such a issue. We did think of public school if he didn't do well. Because part of me was thinking that if it was a personality issue where my type of teaching was not good enough for him and he wasn't learning maybe it would be better being taught from somebody else. He does well with science, art, and history because I do not require them to write down any answers except for labeling countries in geography and labeling things in their apologia science notebook. And, his labeling pictures does not go without hesitation.

So you think he has ADD? He's not hyper, he doesn't fool around with his pencils or do repetitive acts that are questionable.

[Ethel Mertz]

When my boy was your son's age, I remembered something my mother told me. "When your child is frustrating you the most, that is when he or she needs a hug the most." Amazingly, it worked. I learned to keep my voice calm, to add endearments in when I requested he do something ("Did you take your dishes to the sink, sweetie?"), and to remind him often that I love him. On subjects like math and writing, when he balked, I would remind him that he and I were working as a team. If tears ensued, I would say "let's take a walk outside and then come back and see how it goes." I learned that a child can't learn when she or he is crying.

 

Now that my child is finishing his fifth grade homeschool year, I notice a huge difference in his attitude. While he still hates math, he cooperates (sometimes with occasional whining, but I don't respond to the whining). We work as a team and this has helped immensely.

[Hottater]

Heathermomster- I thought my child was just "a 3rd grade boy" so I would not have been teaching him explicit multisensory tasks because I don't know that he had or has any deficits to begin with. I thought his timing issues was just a difference between boys and girls, defiance cause he just doesn't want to do something so he plods along hoping that I would put writing or related subjects off, and girls at this age are generally faster learners. I posted in this board, because I was hoping someone would help me discern, yes/no this is a problem yes/no I need testing for him, or I need parental guidance myself , cause I need to change something or he needs to change something in our environment. I burnout easily because I teach my kids and I also teach in the evenings because I am a piano teacher. Seeing all the ps kids do way better then my kids with simple listening tasks is disheartening.

[MyLittleBears]

Cbgrace -Wow, when you posted I totally felt like I was Charlie brown's teacher "whawawawa". Like, I wonder if that is how I sound to him.

 

Current types of reinforcement I do have – a white board with stars on it after every subject completed. Stickers for getting better at the subject or getting it done nicely. Could you suggest more examples of positive reinforcement or other methods that work for your sons? I have this positive and negative reinforcement thing going on in our house; if they get their work done quickly and then they get a star or extra free time if they do not get it done quickly, they lose their free time or I'm don't get a sticker or lose toys to the downstairs basement. He also does get a disappointment speech for me because he's wasting my time as well I would rather be doing other things than sitting with him mulling over subjects related to writing or things that he doesn't like etc. We all have to do things but we don't like. And he needs to start appreciating writing because it is so integral to what we have to do in life. I tell him about how writing is necessary for jobs and expressing ourselves. some of the positive and negative reinforcement doesn't work because sometimes we don't start our lessons until 11 o'clock because they are fulling around before we get started. So, they get a lot of play time aleady which makes us cram subjects in with less breaks aside from meals. So sometimes I do not get time to enforce his positive break reinforcements.

 

On the grammar testing situation – I need to know that it's in the long-term. His grammar has been taught all year long and he was required to do two pages a day for the beginning, and one page a day for the last three months . And the one page he was able to do without taking two hours by himself. So I don't understand why testing has been such a issue. We did think of public school if he didn't do well. Because part of me was thinking that if it was a personality issue where my type of teaching was not good enough for him and he wasn't learning maybe it would be better being taught from somebody else. He does well with science art history, because I do not require them to write down any answers except for labeling countries in geography and labeling things in their apologia science notebook. And his labeling pictures does not go without hesitation.

 

So you think he has ADD? He's not hyper, he doesn't full around with his pencils or do repetitive acts that are questionable.

Your ds sound almost exactly like my oldest and yes he has ADD and dysgraphia. He was never hyperactive but a total daydreamer at your ds' age. He was in Christian school and the programs they we using were geared toward left-brained auditory-sequential types. I was a total disaster for him. We tried a reward system to get him to focus, speed up etc. nothing worked. The best thing for him was homeschool where we could pace his learning and use materials more suited to his needs.

I highly recommend reading The Mislabled Child by the Eides. It may give you some clues as to what is going on prior to an evaluation. I know it can be very discouraging when our ds are not learning the way we expect. Sometimes it is just a matter meeting them where they are, KWIM?

 

I am not trying to disway you from putting him in school at all, just know that the problem may not be resolved by it.

 

Diane Craft has a good website. We did her nutritional program and it made a huge difference. Good luck to you.

[Heathermomster]

Heathermomster- I thought my child was just "a 3rd grade boy" so I would not have been teaching him explicit multisensory tasks because I don't know that he had or has any deficits to begin with. I thought his timing issues was just a difference between boys and girls, defiance cause he just doesn't want to do something so he plods along hoping that I would put writing or related subjects off, and girls at this age are generally faster learners.

You are not unique. I speak with moms and classroom teachers all the time that realize their teaching and approach wasn't helpful, and that is precisely why I'm suggesting you consider a more explicit, multisensory approach while taking into account compromised working memory and processing speed.

 

How do you do that exactly? Well, you work in shorter intervals (20 minutes max) with breaks. Reduce written output and substitute with hands-on projects. Explore techniques used to teach VSLs. Teach typing. Look at mindmapping.

 

You know, you could have your DS evaluated by an OT. About 50% of children with motor planning issues have ADD/ADHD. OTs can provide Interactive Metronome training and identify any developmental issues such as retained primitive reflexes.

 

I still think you should set aside money now and consider a full NP eval in six months.

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

I would work in shorter focused sections with him. I still scribe for my son and let him type some of his work. He only works on writing during handwriting.

 

Maybe try working through my multi syllable work for a bit for a change of pace, it is really motivational for my students when they work through the Webster Excerpt passages and tell their friends and family, "I read 6th grade level words today." It will be a good spelling review, too.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/WellTaughtPhonicsStudent.html

 

I think a better test would be the letsgolearn tests, they are computer adaptive and will show varying grade levels in each subject so you can separate out problem areas, you get a lot more information than from a regular test.

 

http://www.letsgolearn.com/lglsite/ADAM_math/parents/

 

http://www.letsgolearn.com/lglsite/DORA_K_12/parents/

[almondbutterandjelly]

OP, it sounds like his learning style is completely different from yours.  You need to honor that.  He does not learn like you.  God made him that way, and you need to figure out the best and most efficient way to reach him.  Yelling is not good.  Stop it now.  

 

I suggest backing off.  Read up on visual spatial learners.  See if any of this fits him.  They are on a completely different timeline developmentally than you.  Try Cindy Gaddis' website to find out more about that.  You seem to very "left-brained," traditional learner.  Your son is not.  He is also a child of God and needs you to honor the unique way he has been made to learn.  Yelling does not do that.  

 

FWIW, my dd does not learn like me.  She is in 7th grade now and has only this year been able to write a three sentence paragraph.  But she's also begun to write longer things as well.  Her development did not look like mine in the area of writing, but it has quickly caught up.  Does it matter if she wrote a paragraph in third grade as opposed to now?  No.  As long as she has the skills she needs by the time she graduates, all is good.  

 

Please relax, enjoy your child, and find out the best way he learns.  What you are doing now is not working and is harmful.  ((Hugs))  It's not easy, but it's worth it.

[Hottater]

Heathermomster - I am hearing you on the VSL, and typing. He said that he enjoyed typing more. Maybe I will continue to have him just do the apologia scripture in cursive (once every two weeks), and have him type everything else. Easy grammar is mostly circling and underlining except for the irregular verbs, nouns and tense changes... I was trying to avoid curriculums that were writing intensive but employs application,less black and white and more color filled- like spectrum writing workbooks are more colorful, singapore math too. I give him Rod and staff spelling words on Spelling city sometimes rather than on paper -- so he types the words instead of writes them in his book.  It has helped some. I just can't imagine something that is open and go for VSL's that don't have people or I  spending a fortune on manipulative s. I just bought LLATL Teacher guide and student workbook for fourth grade do you think that is bad or good for a VSL? I hear that it is less intense. 

 

Perky - It's hard for me being a tiger mom. I don't  want to be a helicopter mom. I want to enjoy my kids, but I don't know how to sometimes. Work and play at the same time doesn't make sense to me. When newly four year old lies to me about brushing her teeth, wets her bed, my bed and sister's bed, and then looks cute to play off not doing things and interrupts me every 5 minutes. I start reaching for my straight jacket ;) I don't want ipad to be placating my children. My husband does that when he comes home from work, I don't want that happening during school time. I don't know how to not be me. I am more on the stern strict side or nothing gets done. I hate yelling, it's not like I like it. I tell them how that when they don't listen, my voice elevates, and if they don't want me to get mad, they need to listen and follow the first time. But explaining that is many times on deaf ears too. I also agree with teaching to how the student learns, but changing style of teaching is really hard for me, if I don't know how to implement someone's curriculum to teach it, I have a tendency to buy curriculum that I wouldn't have a problem teaching KWIM? For example I am a sequential teacher and learner, I don't get abstract easily, so to teach it is hard. I forced myself to use Konos, in order to break up any monotony of work-bookish type of learning. 

 

[Hottater]

Visual Spatial Curriculum list:

GENERAL RESOURCES

- Unicorns Are Real: Right Brained Approach to Learning (Vitale) -- specific diagnostic tests and learning strategies (gr. K-4)

- How to Get Your Child Off Refrigerator and onto Learning (Barnier) -- specific tips for very active, kinetic, challenged learning styles (gr. K-5)

- How They Learn (Tobias) -- overview to learning types

- Every Child Can Succeed (Tobias) -- learning environment strategies (gr. 6-12)

- Right Brained Children in a Left Brained World (Freed) -- specific learning strategies (gr. 6-12)

- Upside Down Brilliance: The Visual Spatial Child (Silverman) -- visual-spatial and auditory-sequential learner descriptions, tips, helps

- 100 Top Picks For Homeschool Curriculum: Choosing The Right Curriculum And Approach For Your Child's Learning Style (Duffy)

 

 

MATH

- Miquon

- Math-U-See

- Singapore as supplement for learning/practicing problem solving

- triangle flashcards for math facts (by learning fact families, cuts down to 1/4 the amount of facts to learn!)

- skip counting songs

- Schoolhouse Rock: Math

- math supplement booklets working with geoboards, pattern blocks, cuisenaire rods, etc.

- Key to Math series for specific troublesome math topics, practice, review

- Hands On Equations for visual presentation of algebra "solving for x" concepts

 

 

SPELLING

- Megawords

- out loud back and forth spelling practice (from Andrew Pudewa Spelling & the Brain homeschool seminar)

- on whiteboard, build/work with words by syllables, adding endings/prefixes (Sequential Spelling)

- dictate short sentence with 2-3 spelling words in it to practice simultaneous thinking/writing/spelling (Stevenson Blue Spelling Manual)

 

 

GRAMMAR

- Winston Basic and Advanced

- Mad Libs

- Grammar Ad Libs

- Schoolhouse Rock: Grammar Rock

- Grammar with a Giggle (gr. 3-6); Giggles in the Middle (gr. 6-8); Chortling Bard (gr. 9-12)

- Comicstrip Grammar (gr. 5-8)

- Take Five Minutes: A History Fact a Day for Editing (gr. 4-6)

 

 

WRITING

- Wordsmith Apprentice

- Jump In

- IEW keyword outline technique

- break writing into small "bites" and scatter throughout the day

 

 

LITERATURE

- read aloud or books on tape tons of great books (all ages)

- Story Elements (gr. 2-8; by grade) -- gentle intro to literary elements

- Figuratively Speaking (gr. 6-12) -- literary element resource

- Walch Toolbox: Prose & Poetry (gr. 6-12) -- literary element resource

- Garlic Press publishers Discovering Literature series lit. guides (gr. 6-12)

- Lightning Literature & Composition 7 and 8 (gr. 6-9)

- Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings (gr. 7-12)

 

 

SCIENCE

- lots of hands on and real books

- Reader's Digest "How ... Works" series, plus TOPS units, kits, etc.

- science videos/DVDs, science shows (Schlessinger Media videos, Bill Nye the Science Guy, Building Big series, Mythbusters, NOVA, etc.)

 

 

HISTORY

- colorful, linear or fold-out timeline to visually see connections/distance between people/events

- Yo Millard Fillmore (Cleveland) -- visual book for learning US presidents

- read aloud/discuss together the non-fiction spine/textbook

- historical fiction to flesh out and get a for feel of the times

- films set in the time period studied to flesh out and get a for feel of the times

- history documentaries (library, Netflix, etc.)

 

 

GEOGRAPHY

- use lots of maps, globes, geography placemats, etc.

- free online geography games such as www.sheppardsoftware.com

- The Kids Fun-Filled Search & Find Geography Book (Tallarico)

- geography songs -- to learn states/capitals

- Yo Sacramento -- visual book for learning states/capitals

- a visual atlas, such as Galloping the Globe

- travel documentaries

- films set in different cultures

- listen to music, make food, place games, etc. from different cultures

- children's picture books of myths of different cultures (myths give you a sense of culture, the illustrations give a sense of the artwork)

 

 

CRITICAL THINKING

 

books:

- Gifted and Talented series (K-4 gr.) -- by Amerikander, or others

- Puzzlemania series (gr. 1-5)

- Hidden Picture Puzzle books

- Critical Thinking Activities in Pattern, Image, Logic (by grade) (Seymour)

- Mindbenders (all ages)

- Perplexors (like Mindbenders) (all ages)

- Dr. Funster Think-A-Minutes (gr. 3-6)

- Dr. Funster's Creative Thinking Puzzlers (gr. 3-6)

- Think-A-Grams, Word Winks; More Word Winks, Plexors, More Plexers

- 10-Minute Critical-Thinking Activities for Englishy (Eaton) -- gr. 5-12

- 10-Minute Critical-Thinking Activities for Algebra (Martin) -- gr. 9-12

 

software:

- Logic Journey of the Zoombinis (by grade level)

- Revenge of the Logic Spiders (by grade level)

- Crazy Machines series (gr. 3+)

- The Incredible Machine: Even More Contraptions (gr. 3+)

- Operation: Neptune (gr. 3-6)

- Mission: T.H.I.N.K. (gr. 2-6)

 

games:

- Set

- Duo

- Secret Door

- Blokus

- Scan (old Parker Brothers game, usually available on ebay)

- Clue

- Checkers

- Mastermind

- Amazing Labrynth

- 221 B. Baker Street

- Chess

- Boggle

- Scrabble

- Quarto

- Tetrus

- Risk

- other strategy computer/board games

 

puzzle pages:

- mazes

- word searches

- Where's Waldo

- search and find type of books

- crosswords, word jumbles, anagrams

- codes, cryptograms

- sudoku puzzles

 

 

LOGIC

 

books

- Dandylion Logic (Logic Countdown gr. 3-4; Logic Liftoff gr. 4-5; Orbiting with Logic gr. 5-7)

- Art of Argument (Larson/Hodge) -- gr. 7-9

- Fallacy Detective; Thinking Toolbox (Bluedorn) -- gr. 7-9

 

solo logic activities:

- Logix

- Scramble Squares

- Tangrams

- Rush Hour Junior

 

I quoted this from another thread from Lori? I just needed this in one place so that I could reference everything that everyone has said. I might be vsl too but teach sequentially... I am a piano teacher and can never remember what people say, and am always having to write every thing down. My son and I might be more alike than I know..

 

And all of the Math curriculum that I have used are on this list. He did use FLL1,2 and was able to memorize the poems and stuff even though it is very verbally based as opposed to visually based. 

 

Heather- I might have been teaching him explicit multisensory based all along... just don't know which fall into what category or target area? . I know that my  the 20 minute segments weren't happening though. And output needed to be re-standardized maybe.

 

 

 

http://www.custom-homeschool-curriculum.com/visual-spatial-homeschool-curriculum.html

 

Does any one know if vsl's would fail at vpl curriculums? I have LLATL for 4th, don't know if it would be huge set back to use? 

[Hottater]

Ethel- thanks for the attitude check.

[Heathermomster]

Outside of reading remediation, I don't see teaching a VSL as expensive.  For math, you can get by with c-rods and homemade manipulatives.

 

I have never seen the LLATL that you mention, so I have no opinion.  When my son was third, fourth, and fifth grade, his literature assignments were project based.  Basically poster projects, dioramas, story charts, creating physical representations of the characters, and little booklets were made.  In 5th grade, he started typing BMEs (beginning, middle,ends), which were three summary sentences, describing one to three chapters of a book alongside story charts.  I later discovered that DS had studied most of LL7 in 5th grade.  For vocab, he went to freerice.com and practiced 10 minutes, 3 times per week.  He had no formal writing instruction until 7th grade and did not figure out parts of speech until late 7th grade with a Winston/EG Daily Grams combo.  Punctuation and capitalization are a work in progress.  Composing is a work in progress as well.

 

Perhaps read the Dyslexic Advantage by the Eides.

 

You have the curriculum on hand.  Reduce the assignment length/handwriting and work in shorter increments.  Monitor any improvements and reassess periodically.  It seems almost too easy, doesn't it?

 

You asked whether a child could fail one of the VSL programs mentioned by Lori. Why yes, they can.  Megawords did not suit us at all, but I wouldn't identify the experience as a failure.  It was more like a bad fit.  I hated it.

 

ETA:  We've used HOE, MUS, Winston Basic and Advanced, Figuratively Speaking, IEW, Story Elements, hands-on science, and videos with great success. DS will be using the Thinking Toolbox and Fallacy Detective next year, and I can see no reason that they will be problematic.  Definitely explore the options Lori mentioned, and the VPL site that you linked.

[Lecka]

I don't think this is something putting him in school would solve -- as in, he *could* do it just fine, he is *just not doing it at home.*  

 

I think he might get referred for testing if he was at school, and hopefully the teacher would dig into her/his bag of tricks and do whatever possible to keep him engaged and give him work he is capable of doing.  That doesn't mean lower level, it means a change in the format.  The same learning can be with a different format.  

 

It sounds really unpleasant -- I think something needs to change.  

 

I also have to say -- he sounds VERY compliant to me ------ I think that is really good news!!!!!!  I think with stuff fitted to him a little better, he will SOAR!!!!!!!  He sounds like he is trying hard and something is not quite clicking when he goes to try hard to do his best.  

 

If testing is an option -- I think it would be great.  If not -- I think there are so many good ideas ;)

[Hottater]

Heather LL7? Oh, btw I already have the MUS blocks and someone gave me a pizza fractions game... maybe it might be enough?

 

Oh and I think I might try http://www.visual-learners.com/support-files/challngtchr.pdf for spelling

http://www.custom-homeschool-curriculum.com/support-files/spelling-for-visual-spatial-learners.pdf  same concept.

 

We BOMBed out with sequential spelling. I think it was because there were no pictures. We did 80 lessons, and when it came time to put them into sentences, all of it came out wrong... :(  I also had an older edition without the expensive other book they reccommend go with it.

 

 

Elizabeth B- was totally thinking-God is awesome, cause right after I told hubby that ds has problems sometimes skipping words and muddling through longer words without properly enunciating each syllable, you posted. Oh btw, he would refuse me every moment for k, Gr1 and part of gr2 when I tried to make him read using his finger to break down the syllables etc. He always wanted to guess at the whole word. It's probably the whole to parts learning issues.

 

 

 

 

 

[sbgrace]

I see you have a faith basis. I have a parenting book suggestion. It's by far the best I've read, and I've read a lot. I wanted to suggest it for you when I read your initial posts, but hesitated. He comes at it from a Christian perspective, though not heavily. It's a scientifically solid behavioral (yet relational) approach. The title, though, makes me hesitant to recommend to people when I don't know if they might be put off! http://www.amazon.com/Christlike-Parenting-Taking-Pain-Out/dp/1882723465 Maybe your library could get it through interlibrary loan or similar. It's just perfect for kids like you describe, very practical to implement, and might entirely change the atmosphere in your home for the better.

 

I agree that an assessment would help you. You need to know what's going on with him. I do think you have flags for learning issues. Kids can have ADHD without hyperactivity. It's called ADHD Inattentive type, or used to be anyway! I'd act "as if" for him now.

 

I sit with my son. We do almost everything orally, or with me writing things down for him. He does like to see everything (visual spatial/right brain type). Using c-rods (check out education unboxed online for free videos) for example really helped us in math. For school anyway, he mainly does writing when we practice handwriting. He's learning the keyboard by touch. I think that's going to help us a lot when (if/oh I hope!) he gets proficient. When he's losing attention or getting emotional, checking out, whatever, I stop. For a long time that was about 10 minutes! I try to end on a high note, before things go downhill for either of us. Prioritize the important, and do re-examine your curriculum choices. It sounds like you've got a good start on that from previous replies! I'd just say that if x curriculum is resisted and painful, it's a red flag. Examine other approaches.

 

I really appreciate how honest and receptive you've been on this thread! I've got a feeling you're going to find a better way with him.

 

 

[Hottater]

PRAISE REPORT: On his Adverb Test and Pronoun test he got A's and it took him less than 1/2 hour each page, because we both adjusted our attitudes. And, the tests were one page as opposed to 4,5 pages. He can do it... maybe I've been too hard? Maybe... I don't know... Test anxiety when he's feeling shut down? Maybe I shut him down too much? 

 

BUT!! LOL math/teacher problem for Grammar grading on his capitalization test. So do you/would you grade on a bell curve?  Cause he got 7/12=58% right in the capitalization portion of his grammar test. BUT!!! Most of the questions have 4-7 instances where he had to correct the capitalization per question. Eg.

 

2. last sunday, i took my dogs to riverside park. 

2. Last sunday, I took my dogs to Riverside Park. = 4/5 correct that he did on this question. 

2. Last Sunday, I took my dogs to Riverside Park. - actual answer. 

 

So do I give him 7/12=58%

or do i give him 47/52 =90%

Or hubby's suggestion count .5 point off for each item wrong. 5x.5=2.5  thus,   9.5/12= 79%  ??????

 

Thanks sbgrace... I think it may help, I read dobson's, ezzo's, leiman's books. Not the one you suggested. 

 

[sbgrace]

PRAISE REPORT: On his Adverb Test and Pronoun test he got A's and it took him less than 1/2 hour each page, because we both adjusted our attitudes. And, the tests were one page as opposed to 4,5 pages. He can do it... maybe I've been too hard? Maybe... I don't know... Test anxiety when he's feeling shut down? Maybe I shut him down too much? 

 

BUT!! LOL math/teacher problem for Grammar grading on his capitalization test. So do you/would you grade on a bell curve?  Cause he got 7/12=58% right in the capitalization portion of his grammar test. BUT!!! Most of the questions have 4-7 instances where he had to correct the capitalization per question. Eg.

 

2. last sunday, i took my dogs to riverside park. 

2. Last sunday, I took my dogs to Riverside Park. = 4/5 correct that he did on this question. 

2. Last Sunday, I took my dogs to Riverside Park. - actual answer. 

 

So do I give him 7/12=58%

or do i give him 47/52 =90%

Or hubby's suggestion count .5 point off for each item wrong. 5x.5=2.5  thus,   9.5/12= 79%  ??????

 

Thanks sbgrace... I think it may help, I read dobson's, ezzo's, leiman's books. Not the one you suggested. 

 

Yes, this book is a very different approach than those (I've read them). I think it will fit him better. You might like it a lot.

 

You might be on to something about him shutting down. Lots of kids do that, and nearly all of them do it when they get emotional. Some (the son I wrote about above) do it when anyone gets the least bit emotional. I am certain he has extraordinary ability to sense any level of tension in me!

 

On the other question:

Do you need to assign a grade? Your goal is to educate him. So use the tests to help you know what to review or re-cover. Does he actually know to capitalize days of the week and just didn't notice? If so, move on. If not, go over that with him. If you need a grade for yourself...personally I would count each capitalization instance as 1 point. Then I would keep whatever grade he earns to myself! We're in 4th grade. I have never assigned a grade on anything with my two. I use material like that just to help me teach (ie, did he master it or do we need to approach the topics again?).

[Hottater]

I need to assign a grade because he needs to understand how grading works. If he's never had it at all, he doesn't understand the concept of actually keeping score.  Also, I believe in doing it to prep him because we are going to do the Stanford Test next week, I want him to go through major academic testing at least 3 times in his life. It helps him prepare for SATs later in life. I have never graded him until this year. I personally  believe it is appropriate for 3rd, 8th, and 12th grades. I understand the "don't test method." It's not necessary in lots of regularity for homeschoolers- per se - technically,  it's the same as handing out another practice sheet for the most part. But this is an end of year test. I have to know before if we intend on switching curriculum overall for LA (still on the fence as to using what I have or what) how he is doing and in what areas. I believe that he needs to know what ranks mean, but not every year, just enough so that he's thinking that grades do matter somewhat for more improvement later on. 

 

[rmtzc2009]

You've gotten so many good ideas!  I see from your posts that seeing that information is committed to long term memory is important to you.  I would suggest short, focused and multi-sensory lessons.  I believe that when a child spends a lot of unfocused time on a task they aren't able to make connections easily and their retention is lower.  You mentioned the lengthy times quoted you were hand holding.  I wouldn't spend that kind of time helping.  It's important to know his limits & yours.  I think your reward or incentive idea is wonderful.  I personally wouldn't take away toys as a result of school unless we were dealing with a disobedience issue.  It doesn't sound to me at all like that's what your dealing with.   My son, who has ADHD, does really well knowing that once his work is done he is free to play.  One other thought I had since you seem to be a fan of testing is to test orally and in small chunks.  If you have a curriculum you use & love that has tests maybe break it down into smaller chunks.  One final thing I thought was worth mentioning re: this quote..

 

"Some of the positive and negative reinforcement doesn't work because sometimes we don't start our lessons until 11 o'clock --because they are fooling around before we get started. So, they get a lot of play time already which makes us cram subjects in with less breaks aside from meals. So sometimes I do not get time to enforce his positive break reinforcements."

 

I am not rigid and don't have a particular start time but we have a general flow to our day.  I think this is an area that you could change that will help things.  You do need to be consistent with whatever positive reinforcement plan you decide to use.  If you decide to start at 11, honestly "cramming" isn't a good option.  I don't think there's anything wrong with some days starting at 11 but then the schedule has to give a little.   I would also take into account when your dc is most focused and try to plan work during that period.  

 

I know it can be so frustrating but don't give up!  Best of luck!

 

[Heathermomster]

I have never used grades as a motivator. I know my son, and he works very hard. I don't harp on areas where he struggles because I know he has wm issues and have confidence that these issue will improve with consistent exposure and maturity. My son's learning struggles don't define him or his character.

 

How are you assigning grades? In 3rd grade, DS sat in a classroom and grades were either pass/fail or the satisfactory/good/very good variety. Test all you want; however, prayerfully ask yourself, "Do the ends justify the means?"

 

How many questions should a third grader parse to convince you that they can identify a noun? One to three carefully crafted sentences written on a white board should suffice. Worried about a state review? Take a picture of the completed work.

 

You seem to be focusing on grammar a lot. Your DS doesn't sound like he's finished with reading instruction. How can a child be expected to firmly grasp the abstract ideas of grammar when they can't even read a multi syllable word without guessing?

 

I personally think the SAT-10 is waste for elementary aged kids. There are better tests available to help you assess specific weaknesses and give your student that testing experience.

[Hottater]

Momof3il. And other moms – What do you do during breaks and for how long?

 

Heather - I don't know the acronyms wm and. LL7? I understand testing does not define him or his character either. But I want him to understand how they can be used and for what purposes and how they rank with other students in his age group. But I still know that it does not define them on a personal level -God does. That's why infrequent testing is important to me and using them as tools for learning is important to me. I was told stanford and Iowa were good tests. I liken them unto recitals for my students. It helps them assess over the long-haul how well they've writ done. I understand there many philosophies on this and it's totally okay to not test if you know where your kids are. I just like to use it as a learning tool. Also with the reading – he finished the OPGTTR . So he does need slight remediation but not sure how far to go. Like I said he'll get stuck on some multi-syllable word he hasn't come across before, but it's a good dictionary stopper I guess. I used a Beka basal readers all the way up to third-grade reading materials. I assume that he's doing okay. Because he does read aloud to me and I feel that it's a normal set to read for his age. It has built in reading comprehension questions. And He seems to answer them fine. He seems to have the five word test rule per page okay – meaning they say if you make five or more mistakes on a page the reading material is too hard. So most of the stuff that he reads is less then 5. I am only focusing on grammar this week because he is at the end of his grammar book. But that isn't stopping him from reading for example – he is reading the Civil War ballad 15 pages a day aloud to me.

[Jennifer-72]

Something else you may want to consider is anxiety.  Anxiety in children is in my experience poorly understood.  It is often written off or overlooked when it doesn't look like what adults think in their heads it should look like.  From what you have written, it sounds like you are putting your child in some pressure filled situations with respect to his learning. 

 

 

Maybe it would be helpful for you to picture if you walked in on a teacher with your son in the situations you have described here.  If you can picture it unfolding that way, what things would you want to see change?  Would you feel they were honouring how your child learns, helping him to feel confident and take ownership in his learning, and ensure that he continues to have a love of learning?  Maybe looking at it from that angle will help you to see what changes maybe necessary for both of you.

[Pen]

Hi, I have not read all the posts above, mainly just the original one and skimming over others, so this may have already been said, or be irrelevant, but here are some thoughts:

 

1) Getting your son tested for LD's etc. would be helpful. You might feel less frustrated/more sympathetic if you understood what was going on, and also might be helped to get right materials and so on. 

 

2) My son has dysgraphia problems and yet is good at drawing, the two are not particularly related.

 

3) We mostly do school work on a time basis (same as in b&m school), not number of pages or lessons. I expect good focus and attention during the time for school, but I also keep the required parts minimal (way less than you are apparently doing and my son is 12!). Lots of breaks for play and chores etc. 2 or 3 main hours of schoolwork daily (1 hour math, 1 hour writing/grammar/spelling nowadays, used to be reading rather than writing when reading was being remediated). Most science and history comes from life, doing things, reading out of curiosity, and DVD's--before the science and history seemed to just be happening, we had 1 hour for either of those daily.

 

4) He was officially red-shirted, so that while he is now mainly on track or even above for his original grade, it is less stressful in areas where he is not.

 

5) I do not give grades. I went to some schools in childhood that did and  others that did not give grades, and preferred the ones that did not. I was able to get into a top Ivy League Uni. from one of the ungraded schools -- grades can get in the way of learning IME, and it is certainly not true that having them is critical to life or getting into college or anything else I can think of. My son started in PS, then went to a private school--he had not gotten any grades from either one so he was not used to it, and would not have had them had he continued.

 

6) I am in a state that requires std. tests approx. every other year and we do that.  Currently we are preparing for the IOWA ITBS, and the main prep work seems to be not the content level, but being able to get through the duration of that long a time sitting, neither spacing out or going hyper, nor getting shaky and collapsing from a blood sugar deficit.  That is to say, even at age 12, the idea of having a morning test session of 3 or 4 hours (ours are proctored in a test setting with other children, that we drive to, not parent administered), is quite a challenge. His last std testing was done with public school, and had a totally different format.

 

7) Quite aside from any grading issue, I have found that a focus on what is gotten right is much more helpful than a focus on what was gotten wrong, especially in writing areas.  I use written stars, because putting stickies etc. proved too hard, but I would deal with your sentence example where one capital was missed and others were gotten by putting a written star at each one that he got right, and then also pointing out the one other one that also needs to be capitalized in standard current English.

 

Similarly, upon seeing, for example, that hands got dried with one paper towel instead of a whole bunch and that it then gets in the garbage instead of dropped where ever, to try to notice and say, "Thank you."  Or perhaps noticing that toys are where they should be and not where they shouldn't (even if it is only a partial step toward that) to say, "Oh, thank you so much, that is such a big help!" and maybe to use the time that would have gone to yelling and trying to get the whatever problem cleaned up to consciously put it to something fun and pleasant... like, "now we can all play a game."

[Heathermomster]

LL7 is Lightening Literature Grade 7, and wm is working memory.

[Hottater]

More so people say what not to do. Can I have better what to do situations?

I would've fired myself long time ago. It's not the first time I would've said this. But being a classroom teacher and home parent teacher is totally different. I don't know how to separate parent from teacher moments or that I should even do that.

[Hottater]

Oops, my previous post was written during the previous posts by pen and heather. Pen thanks for the positive affirmation comments, it's not li didn't start off that way... But, When I get ignored, it ticks me off. What are your break times? And sample things to do during break that doesn't require a 1/2 an hour toy clean up?

[Ethel Mertz]

Regarding breaks:

 

For Inside: Put on a kids' yoga dvd, have them dance to different types of music, play Simon Says. The point is to get them moving.

 

For Outside: Play outside - like recess. Run around, play hopscotch, go for a nature walk.

[rmtzc2009]

Regarding breaks:  Sometimes I send ds out to walk the dog several times around the court.   Sometimes we go on a 15 minute walk together.  I send him to go jump on the trampoline.  We play soccer or catch.  Sometimes I put on a 30 minute educational show.  We break up the day with chores as well.  For my ds it seems to be good reset.  For inside activities they can only play with one type of toy at a time and each type of toy is stored in its own bin.  Clean up really doesn't take more than a few minutes.

[Heathermomster]

We keep Connect 4 nearby and ready to go.  My kids love Legos.  I set a timer for 10 or so minutes when DS is doing his own thing.  While working, sometimes DS just needs to back off when he starts making careless errors.  In those moments, I have him either rotate laundry, drink water, or check the mail and then he restarts.  Sometimes I shift work locations such as from the office to the kitchen table or counter.  

[Ethel Mertz]

Sometimes I shift work locations such as from the office to the kitchen table or counter.  

 

This! When we went through a period of math going badly, we would change locations. Couch, Big Bed, even the middle of the stairs!

[desertflower]

I'm replying to this post without reading all the responses, so sorry if I duplicate any answers. There are too many replies for me to read and I wanted to put in my 2 cents. I have felt very frustrated with my son as well. Now he's only 5 so I can't imagine what's it like. But I wanted to say that when we hit a brick wall with phonics pathways I realized that he was a kinesthetic learner. Pp is not really for kinesthetic learners. Now I do AAR and he enjoys it. You had mentioned that u r more relaxed when u do the konos co-op and that curriculum is for kinesthetic learners. How does he like it? Could be that he's a kinesthetic learner. Perhaps switch curriculums to one that is more geared for kinesthetic learners? Now since my oldest is only 5 I don't know what those curriculum would be. I hear that math u see, moving beyond the page, the sentence family and supercharge science are geared towards kinesthetic learners. At this point 8n time they r not what I use. I use singapore math, real science odyssey coupled with bfsu, story of the world, aar and will try aas, konos, and the sentence family.

 

HTH

[Pen]

Oops, my previous post was written during the previous posts by pen and heather. Pen thanks for the positive affirmation comments, it's not li didn't start off that way... But, When I get ignored, it ticks me off.

 

Yeah, but try not to take it personally!

 

What are your break times? And sample things to do during break that doesn't require a 1/2 an hour toy clean up?

 

 

As much as possible breaks, involve things like going outside and getting plenty of exercise one way or another...exactly how that looks has depended on circumstances and his age. He may shoot baskets, bike, run around, climb trees, practice archery, explore with the dog (though that often results in them being gone hours not just a recess plus PE class length break), etc.   More recently it may include doing things with his chicks, working on his chicken's housing, and so on. Sometimes we will go together and work on the garden. Sometimes we do schoolwork outside. Sometimes he has done his schoolwork while swinging on a swing, or up in a tree.

 

Sometimes breaks include less active things like watching a science or history DVD (which is part of school, but not at all unpleasant)--this is less ideal since he needs the physical outlet, but sometimes it fits the weather or other circumstances. He also might practice the guitar or sometimes, especially in winter, play a typing game on the computer or do Sumdog or Duolingo, or read a book. Or he might wrestle with the dog, which I do not so much like indoors, though in very bad weather I acknowledge that they do both need an outlet. He also has bouncy ball things to sit on which he sometimes uses to roll and bounce on. Sometimes if I have time we will play a game like chess during winter day break times...if he had siblings he might be able to play with them, but he doesn't.

 

 

 

I'd prefer him to do 2 half hour math sessions rather than one hour long, but he often will do math from 9-10, take a break till 11, then do his writing related work between 11 and noon. Or do part of his writing work then and part later in the afternoon. Then he is pretty much done with his key school work.  We used to have writing in the evenings by candlelight which was lovely, but we have a young energetic dog and I do not think that would be safe now as the candle would likely get wagged or bumped.  He's now above grade/age level in reading, in AoPS pre-algebra for math (he was doing MUS at your son's age, I think), and knows more history and science than most kids his age seem to. He is somewhat behind still in writing and related areas like grammar and spelling, but I know that he is coming along, and I know that it is an area that is a real struggle for him due to LDs not just resistance.  Anyway, getting the idea across that 2 hours of well focussed work plus chores done allows him to pursue his own interests for much of the rest of the day, has been a hard thing to achieve, but to the extent that it has been successful it has been very worthwhile.

 

 

Oh--one more idea I'd like to throw out is to let your son choose what he enjoys reading. He will gain reading skills whatever it is, most likely, and it really does not have to be Moby Dick at age 8, not even a kid's version of Moby Dick, unless he is loving that. If you can help him to have books and other materials he loves, or at least likes pretty well, you will probably have less of a battle, not only right now, but also in the future. Once my son was remediated in his reading, it stopped being a subject. He reads to enjoy fiction he wants to enjoy, or he reads nonfiction to learn things we wants to know about. It is a whole area of battle that we simply do not have.

[Pen]

PS In general, curriculum that results in crying and yelling is, for me, not curriculum that I continue to use. If I think it is good and might be worthwhile to try again at an older age or different stage, I keep it, but I don't persist with that. I admire your tenacity, but think that you may be setting up a dread of schooling for both of you by insisting on sticking with things that are not a good fit, or maybe not the right time.

 

Also, this "because he can't remember it even after the millionth time and 4 curriculums later" is to me a red flag that there IS an LD or LDish type problem of some sort.  It could be a memory issue, or it could be a dyslexia/dysgraphia type issue, but it is almost certainly something.

[Pen]

PPS We also use a lot of books on audio, including having gone through SOTW multiple times that way.  And it can play at the same time as doing push ups or drawing or driving.  A lot of learning can happen without having it be the active, sit-down and be quiet, now it is school type.

[Hottater]

Wow.. http://visualpractice.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/characteristics.png I get it.... Holy moly ..yowser.... But what I don't get is that I used spelling power and sequential spelling and it didn't work well when he had to apply the spelling in sentences. It's made specifically for dyslexics (not sure about dysgraphia students.) I also cut the 25 word list down in half, because it was too much for him in one day to do 25 words. I started off with this because I believed my safety net -- if dyslexics can use it, maybe it would help him just in case if he did have spelling issues in the future. -- I figured, start off with the stuff for kids that cover the most possible LD's cause he seemed like he didn't have any LD's I knew about- that had more obvious signs and if he did, it would be something like ADD,dyslexia, dysgraphia something like one of those least noticeable learning difference issues. As a music teacher, we were taught about noticing certain early signs but not all. Disgraphia wouldn't have been one. Auditory issues, but not writing and spelling issues. So I choose the better ones or so I thought, with a chance of less remediation needed as possible.

After reading more about dysgraphia, wow, my ds was having really bad reading then fluency just popped onto the scene when he was 7 .kind of like some of the descriptions on some slide shows..

Thanks!

[EndOfOrdinary]

I am in no place to tell you that your son does or does not having a learning disability. I am just curious how much he gets to run around. I mean all out, crazy wild child, run and kill imaginary bad guys,practice his amazing ninja skills and be a super hero?

 

You described my son when he just did not care about school. He would just click off for HOURS. Still does it if he does not want to read an assigned book. An hour and half and only a page has been read. Dh said the same thing about just showing him he was wrong or punishing or making him sit there till he finishes. Ds just didn't care.

 

So we ran him. We went on "discussion walks" where he got to bring a sword. (What is it with boys and swords!?) The level of information that began flowing out of him was quite significant when he could move about. His focus was a thousand times better after he was all sweaty and exhausted. Our pediatrician said that testosterone can build up in boys system at uneven rates and physical exercise can help clear away all the fog. He could have just been feeding me a line, but it as really helped.

 

It helped with many of the high school boys I taught as well. Some of the most tuned out and seemingly lazy boys did a complete 180 when a teacher got permission from their parents to turn detention into chopping wood. It was at the teacherr's house and he would work the snot out of them chopping wood. It was amazing how much more driven and focused they became.

 

It is all anecdotal, but might be worth a shot.

[Heathermomster]

Wow.. http://visualpractice.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/characteristics.png I get it.... Holy moly ..yowser.... But what I don't get is that I used spelling power and sequential spelling and it didn't work well when he had to apply the spelling in sentences. It's made specifically for dyslexics (not sure about dysgraphia students.) I also cut the 25 word list down in half, because it was too much for him in one day to do 25 words. I started off with this because I believed my safety net -- if dyslexics can use it, maybe it would help him just in case if he did have spelling issues in the future. -- I figured, start off with the stuff for kids that cover the most possible LD's cause he seemed like he didn't have any LD's I knew about- that had more obvious signs and if he did, it would be something like ADD,dyslexia, dysgraphia something like one of those least noticeable learning difference issues. As a music teacher, we were taught about noticing certain early signs but not all. Disgraphia wouldn't have been one. Auditory issues, but not writing and spelling issues. So I choose the better ones or so I thought, with a chance of less remediation needed as possible.

After reading more about dysgraphia, wow, my ds was having really bad reading then fluency just popped onto the scene when he was 7 .kind of like some of the descriptions on some slide shows..

Thanks!

 

Here's a suggested book list to help you understand the organic nature of learning issues, brain functioning, and how learning issues are identified and re-mediated.  I'm confident that others will make additional suggestions. 

 

Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz

How the Special Needs Brain Learns by David Sousa (I have not read this particular book but have read and own the title How the Brain Learns Mathematics.)

The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eides

The Dyslexic Advantage by the Eides

The Gift of Dyslexia by Davis (I don't care for this book, but it has helped many families.)

 

Perhaps read these books.  Afterwards, consider getting an OT handwriting evaluation for your son.  The eval takes about an hour, and the OT will check his visual processing, vestibular system, use of the mid-line, core strength, pincer grasp, pencil grip, and motor planning.

 

You may want to explore a vitamin regimen and altering diet by eliminating known allergens.  Lastly, start saving money for a np because insurance generally won't cover the testing, and testing is expensive and cost prohibitive for many.

[MyLittleBears]

I am in no place to tell you that your son does or does not having a learning disability. I am just curious how much he gets to run around. I mean all out, crazy wild child, run and kill imaginary bad guys,practice his amazing ninja skills and be a super hero?

 

You described my son when he just did not care about school. He would just click off for HOURS. Still does it if he does not want to read an assigned book. An hour and half and only a page has been read. Dh said the same thing about just showing him he was wrong or punishing or making him sit there till he finishes. Ds just didn't care.

 

So we ran him. We went on "discussion walks" where he got to bring a sword. (What is it with boys and swords!?) The level of information that began flowing out of him was quite significant when he could move about. His focus was a thousand times better after he was all sweaty and exhausted. Our pediatrician said that testosterone can build up in boys system at uneven rates and physical exercise can help clear away all the fog. He could have just been feeding me a line, but it as really helped.

 

It helped with many of the high school boys I taught as well. Some of the most tuned out and seemingly lazy boys did a complete 180 when a teacher got permission from their parents to turn detention into chopping wood. It was at the teacherr's house and he would work the snot out of them chopping wood. It was amazing how much more driven and focused they became.

 

It is all anecdotal, but might be worth a shot.

 

Love this. Chopping wood works with ADD husbands too!

[Ethel Mertz]

Last night I listened again to SWB's lecture on "Homeschooling the Real Child." I immediately thought it would be helpful to you. The cost is only $3.99 to download. Here is the link to the page with the lectures.:

 

http://peacehillpress.com/audio-lectures/

 

 

 

[Heathermomster]

This is a beauty too...