Had it with Magic Lens...skipping 4Practice?

[daijobu]

My dd13 and I pretty well have had it with Magic Lens 1.  It just seems heavy on nomenclature of phrases and clauses for which we already have an intuitive understanding.  We're about finished with ML1, and my next step was to start on 4Practice, but now I'm having second thoughts.  The end of ML1 has a bunch of 4 level analysis, and frankly, I'm not sure how helpful that has been for my dd13.  

 

The trouble is 4 level analysis does not give much practice in identifying errors in punctuation and usage.  Maybe this was obvious to everyone else except me, but now I think I need to catch up.  I'm considering starting her on my copy of Sadlier's Grammar and Writing book.  What would you use in place of 4Practice to practice usage and punctuation?  I will probably continue with Advanced Academic Writing and WWW.  

 

Alternatively, if you feel like 4Practice has been awesome, I want to hear from you, too.  

[Woodland Mist Academy]

We use Hake for mechanics. Magic Lens 1 was a good fit here, but my daughter was 11/12 when we used it, so that might have made a difference. We find 4Practice useful and worthwhile, but our expectations might be different than yours. I didn't expect it to deal with mechanics to a great degree, which is why we use Hake. We use 4Practice to think about sentences. Beyond being grammatically correct, how does our word choice and word order affect what we are trying to say?

 

4Practice Volume 2 looks even better. The sentences are from the classics and some more modern works, as opposed to MCT's sentences about the ancient world. (The sentences this year were fine, but I am looking forward to more variety. Also, it will add an element of suspense...will today's sentence lead me to an old favorite or to new beloved book?)

 

Much depends on goals and expectations, as well as the child, of course!

[Matryoshka]

I went the other way.  Dd's been going through 4Practice 1, but we haven't even touched ML1...  After a while I feel like he's saying the same thing over and over (and over), and we should just apply it and I can reiterate anything myself if she gets it wrong ('cause I can parrot practically all of MCT's grammar memes verbatim at this point.  And riff on them.)  4Practice is quick and painless - she does it in a couple of minutes, I correct it, and we spend another few seconds going over anything she may have gotten wrong (but it's mostly right, so it's just keeping things from falling out of the brain, which does happen to her, so...)

 

Is there any reason for me to even buy ML2, or should we just save the $$ and forge ahead with 4Practice 2?  Is there anything new??  Enlighten me.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Hmmm... I was actually quite pleased with ML1. I didn't find it repetitious. Yes, it has review, but it also has new information. The Voyage level was the one I didn't care for much. I don't have ML2 yet, but hope to soon.

 

 

[Matryoshka]

Hmmm... I was actually quite pleased with ML1. I didn't find it repetitious. Yes, it has review, but it also has new information. The Voyage level was the one I didn't care for much. I don't have ML2 yet, but hope to soon.

I did go through most of (the old version) ML1 with my older two, and the only really new material I remember was some verb tense stuff, but since we do a lot of foreign language, that still seemed scant and old news... Was there other new stuff I'm forgetting?

 

I really would like to know what's in ML2. In spite of what I just said, I'm a bit of a MCT junkie. ..

[crazyforlatin]

Woodland, which Hake level did you use for mechanics? I have Evan Moore, but it's not exactly what I'm looking for. It has a student looking for mistakes; I was hoping for more explicit instructions.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I did go through most of (the old version) ML1 with my older two, and the only really new material I remember was some verb tense stuff, but since we do a lot of foreign language, that still seemed scant and old news... Was there other new stuff I'm forgetting?

 

I really would like to know what's in ML2. In spite of what I just said, I'm a bit of a MCT junkie. ..

 

I'll try to post a couple examples of what I thought was new. It might be tomorrow before I get to it, though.

 

 

Woodland, which Hake level did you use for mechanics? I have Evan Moore, but it's not exactly what I'm looking for. It has a student looking for mistakes; I was hoping for more explicit instructions.

 

We used Hake 7 and 8 for sixth and seventh grades. We used many other resources in the earlier grades. (I would have used Hake earlier had I known about it!)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I did go through most of (the old version) ML1 with my older two, and the only really new material I remember was some verb tense stuff, but since we do a lot of foreign language, that still seemed scant and old news... Was there other new stuff I'm forgetting?

 

I really would like to know what's in ML2. In spite of what I just said, I'm a bit of a MCT junkie. ..

 

I finally had a chance to flip through Magic Lens I again.

 

The discussion of verb strategies used by great writers was worthwhile for us.

Present perfect in The Declaration of Independence

Tense changes in The Gettysburg Address

 

Perhaps everything had been mentioned before; I don't know for certain. I do know that the review of topics such as the subjunctive and the three forms of conditional wasn't detrimental for us. The same was true for coordinating conjunctions, subordinating conjunctions, correlative conjunctions, and conjunctive adverbs, as well as a few other topics.

 

We also found the end of the book helpful. (Appendix, Usage, and Grammar Rules and Errors)

 

For us, The Magic Lens was a solid review, as well as a powerful launch into the second level of MCT. YMMV. :)

[NittanyJen]

I found good punctuation stuff in Magic Lens I. DS (then 12) could explain very well by the end of the practice book how to punctuate the different types of phrases and clauses correctly, which is where most people get tripped up. We had already covered quotations and easier stuff through WWE and Bravewriter.

 

He was solid enough that we skipped grammar this year and will move into Magic Lens 3 next year. I do think that by skipping the practice book, you skip quite a bit of the program. It does start to feel incremental at times, but it does build over time, and very intentionally-- with good stuff. My kids both know more about handling appositives correctly than most people around them, and they are aces on subject vs object pronouns in tricky situations, thanks to MCT and its discussion format.

 

But different people want different things from a grammar program. MCT develops not only a good 'ear' for grammar, but an understanding of how the parts of the sentence support and impact one another, so that the student can tweak a sentence without unbalancing it. Throughout the practice books, the author asks the student to play with practice sentences-- how would things change if you dropped this word/lost the alliteration/reorganized the structure/etc? Sometimes the sentence improves! It is great for the students to hear those changes.

 

This program, Discovery of Deduction, and a few others are 'graded' by discussion with the parent by program design, and I think it has resulted in a much deeper learning experience, even for my highly independent learner. Instead of being wrong (which has its place at times) he can work his way through to understanding rather than right/wrong/please the teacher. I live that aspect as well.

 

Just a few things to think about-- again, not everyone wants this from a grammar program (and it may be less important to you if you are not using any other components).

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I found good punctuation stuff in Magic Lens I. DS (then 12) could explain very well by the end of the practice book how to punctuate the different types of phrases and clauses correctly, which is where most people get tripped up. We had already covered quotations and easier stuff through WWE and Bravewriter.

 

He was solid enough that we skipped grammar this year and will move into Magic Lens 3 next year.

 

I am thinking of going straight from ML 1 to ML 3 as well. I noticed that ML 2 has been revised, and the new samples are not available... Now I'm hesitant to order it. I didn't care for the changes made to the WWW books. Hmm....ML 3 hasn't been updated, so maybe I will go with it instead. Or we might just move on at this point. I've not decided yet. I wish the samples posted showed what is different about the next levels. It does look to be just more of the same. I'm not sure I even see that much difference in the 4Practice books.

 

I know this sounds quite the opposite of my recent posts, but we might be moving on from MCT. When I looked at the samples a couple months ago, I was sure we would continue. The past few days have caused me to reconsider.  Lily's academic load has shifted and increased, causing us to re-evaluate everything. She is in such a different place academically now. It makes me wonder if we should have skipped levels earlier or started the program earlier.