Does Common Core math = Singapore Math???

[Reefgazer]

Yes to the bolded.  Now the US has the same, with kids sent to Andover, Miss Porter's, and Exeter.  No need to have the mass of common children well-educated because we've got our elite; everyone else, however, must be equal.  It's a goal of that type of government and economy and mindset that everyone be equal, and the restrictions on teachers are there to ensure that. It won't work entirely, of course, because there are those few who are connected and have money and/or are willing to sacrifice to homeschool their children.  The masses, however, are SOL.  A few interesting reads on the connections between government, school, and educrats if you've got time to loll about this summer and are interested:

Credentialed To Destroy, Robin Eubanks (well-researched and the connections she schusses out are astounding, but self-published and poorly edited, so the grammatical and punctuation mistakes make this a very difficult read).

 

The Underground History Of American Education, John Gatto (Unbelievable.  Took me an entire summer to read because I kept having to stop and verify his citations against the original sources because I could not believe some of the outrageous things he had printed in his book about education.  But once I checked his primary sources I found he did not misquote, take out of context, or twist words.  In fact, his points answered a lot of questions for me about why I was seeing what I was seeing at my children's school.  Then I got angry and decided public education was not for us). 

 

Based on the above books, I do not think this is an implementation problem.  I do not even think it is a curriculum issue; Pearson produced exactly what CC proponents wanted and they are reaping the money from it.  The fault lies with states accepting federal money for education, and most people being  too lazy or too apathetic to educate themselves about the issue and care.  So now we have to accept their asinine curriculum because of our collective apathy and greed.  But I don't know how to fix that because it is so very much money and no one is willing to accept the consequences of giving that up.

 

ETA:  FWIW, I do understand how absolutely insane I sound sometimes on this issue.  I mean, it sounds nuts to me as I am typing.  I don't mention these things to my public school parent friends because, even though they are thoughtful and educated people, they are also very defensive about their school, feel powerless about their inability to provide a better education to their kids, and they won't follow up and learn on their own.  It's easier for them to look at me like I'm nuts, so I just shut up IRL.  Anyway, that's why I posted the above links, so you can look for yourself and convince yourself I'm not nuts.   :)

Interesting. Only I do not think USSR ever really aimed for equal outcomes. I think they wanted top notch scientist and artists to compete with the West and they identified gifted kids and send them to special schools (math, music, ballet). Even in regular schools there was a clear difference in expectations. They provided equal access to schools, but what you did there was really up to you. There was clearly the floor for each grade level on expectations (I remember my teachers articulating to less academically inclined kids what they needed to know and do to get a C and move on to the next grade), but they taught to the top of the class. I am by no means trying to imply that they had an education system figured out, but just making an observation that even the ideologically driven communist country wasn't delusional enough to think one could achieve equal outcome (I am not talking about basic literacy).
I do not know how this all ties back to the CC debate, other than to say that basic standards aren't bad to have, but we need to be intelligent enough on implementation from curriculum developers to policy makers. CA decision to not allow SM is a bad decision and the responsibility really lies with CA Department of Education. Is anybody challenging that decision? We should be. People we hire to write curriculum need to be held responsible (we should vote with our purse) for garbage they often produce. Have you seen the segment Colbert did on CC math? Yes, it was CC aligned math program, only apparently that particular math problem was in place well before they slapped CC label on the curriculum. I honestly believe that implementation matters more at this point than CC standards.

 

[Reefgazer]

The bolded is just another leg on the collective mindset stool, designed to squelch individual thought and promote equal outcomes.  If everyone is educated to the same mediocre level, with no drive to achieve anything better (Why should they?  They're just all going to get a 65, right?), and no one has the mental training of abstract, independent thought that is based on actual knowledge, then everyone becomes very predictable and easily led into whatever their (more powerful and well-educated) leaders want.  This is also a thread that Eubanks follows in the book I referenced above.

The writers of common core books here in the US has put a lot of political and social agenda in to the books. Even if you look at a public school textbook, it is riddled with a ton of political/social stories and distractions that have nothing to do with math. To top it off, another push in education here is "collaborative" which means one person does the work, everyone takes credit.

 

My daughter had a calculus class, our last straw on public school math, where homework is participation credit, so everyone was given 100's on this. And then the tests, they were put in to groups of 4. The tests were 4 pages long. No one knew which page would be corrected. They did not share answers. They did the tests on their own and turned them in. Within the group, 1 page from each test was graded. The total equalled the grade for everyone. One girl did not even bother with her first test. She got a zero on her page. So the entire group got a 65. Everyone got an individual test grade of 65. My daughter dropped after that. She was told she was assigned to the group for the term so she just needed to get that 4th person up to speed on the calculus. She knew the class would destroy her GPA and class ranking if she stayed, so she dropped.

 

[PachiSusan]

My husband friend is a teacher and he was happily explaining how his classroom would be changing to better help all the chikdren: they would be in groups and all homework and projects would be done in this group. They grouped by the smartest child going with one of the "slow" children do that the smart one can "peer motivate" the child to do better and then two "average children". The group would be graded communally. What wound up happening? The smart kid got worse grades and tbe slow and average kids stayed the same. They considered it a success. Huh???

 

The bolded is just another leg on the collective mindset stool, designed to squelch individual thought and promote equal outcomes. If everyone is educated to the same mediocre level, with no drive to achieve anything better (Why should they? They're just all going to get a 65, right?), and no one has the mental training of abstract, independent thought that is based on actual knowledge, then everyone becomes very predictable and easily led into whatever their (more powerful and well-educated) leaders want. This is also a thread that Eubanks follows in the book I referenced above.

[nature girl]

This sounds like we're tumbling into conspiracy-theory territory, and a Big Brother state. I'm not saying it's not true, just it's incredibly hard to believe something like this could happen in the U.S.

[Laura Corin]

They have math specialists here.  They help individual students and teachers.

 

What has worked here is for teachers to travel...one teacher will teach SS or Science to one entire classroom, one will teach math. They swap and teach same lesson to the other person's classroom.  They pair up so that people are teaching something they have a strength in or are passionate about.

 

 

At the boys' school they have specialist teachers for all subjects from age 8.  Before that, everything is taught by class teachers, to keep things simple for the little ones.

 

L

[terrikuns]

My husband friend is a teacher and he was happily explaining how his classroom would be changing to better help all the chikdren: they would be in groups and all homework and projects would be done in this group. They grouped by the smartest child going with one of the "slow" children do that the smart one can "peer motivate" the child to do better and then two "average children". The group would be graded communally. What wound up happening? The smart kid got worse grades and tbe slow and average kids stayed the same. They considered it a success. Huh???

 

 

This is not new, although I shudder to think it is becoming more common. My 7th grade pre-algebra class (so, approx 1992 - was that "New Math?") divided us into groups of 4, with our desks pushed together in a square. Each group had one A student, one D/F student, and two in the middle. We all "worked together" and got the same grade. So, basically I did all the work, and was somehow responsible for teaching it to the others.

[PachiSusan]

This is not new, although I shudder to think it is becoming more common. My 7th grade pre-algebra class (so, approx 1992 - was that "New Math?") divided us into groups of 4, with our desks pushed together in a square. Each group had one A student, one D/F student, and two in the middle. We all "worked together" and got the same grade. So, basically I did all the work, and was somehow responsible for teaching it to the others.

 

Yes, I know it's not new. However, it was taught to the teachers AS something new that comes with Common Core and he was so thrilled about it. It's all about teachers being "facilitators of learning" rather than experts. It's to teach kids that they are supposed to "discover" together. 

[PachiSusan]

This sounds like we're tumbling into conspiracy-theory territory, and a Big Brother state. I'm not saying it's not true, just it's incredibly hard to believe something like this could happen in the U.S.

 

"Oh, this could never happen in Germany..."

 

It took me quite a while to get to the point where I no longer believe that something "could never happen in America". 

 

We are a dumbed down population that barely thinks past a Twitter tweet or facebook update. We believe what we're told and have lost the skill of critical thinking, debate, and questioning.  We are well versed in offense, racism, and intolerance of differing opinions.

 

It's no longer hard for me to believe that ANYTHING can get pulled over American's eyes because we're too busy with other things to bother researching things for ourselves anymore. 

[Courtney_Ostaff]

This is not new, although I shudder to think it is becoming more common. My 7th grade pre-algebra class (so, approx 1992 - was that "New Math?") divided us into groups of 4, with our desks pushed together in a square. Each group had one A student, one D/F student, and two in the middle. We all "worked together" and got the same grade. So, basically I did all the work, and was somehow responsible for teaching it to the others.

 

Remember what I said about that little extra push needed to bring those just-under-proficient-level students up to "proficiency" so that test scores go up?  This is how you do it. The "good" students don't need teaching, the just-under-proficient students need a little extra help, and you put the slow kid in there so they can imitate the others. This way you don't lecture students, because teachers who lecture are bad.  And, this way the students police their own behavior, because they need to work in order to get a grade. "You have to show them through directed teaching and modeling that once the lesson has been taught, the responsibility for learning shifts in total from you to them." This helps with classroom management--a principal who sees a quiet, studious class is a happy principal, regardless of the mechanism.

[Courtney_Ostaff]

Yes, I know it's not new. However, it was taught to the teachers AS something new that comes with Common Core and he was so thrilled about it. It's all about teachers being "facilitators of learning" rather than experts. It's to teach kids that they are supposed to "discover" together. 

 

Yep. All about the inquiry-based-learning, and "facilitation."  In fact, I've had teaching jobs where my official title was "facilitator."  

[PachiSusan]

Yep. All about the inquiry-based-learning, and "facilitation."  In fact, I've had teaching jobs where my official title was "facilitator."  

 

I don't mind so much being a facilitator *at times*, but sometimes one NEEDS to be a teacher, and sometimes kids NEED an expert. Kids are kids. They don't vote for a reason. They have parents for a reason: They're not ready to do it all yet. I think we do a disservice to our kids when we treat them like little adults. They're not. Their brains aren't even completely formed yet and we're trying to get them to make adult choices. 

[Reefgazer]

It is nearly unbelievable.  Until you read direct, printed quotes from some from some of the players promoting this stuff.  Then it just becomes frightening, especially when no one else wants to pay mind to it. 

This sounds like we're tumbling into conspiracy-theory territory, and a Big Brother state. I'm not saying it's not true, just it's incredibly hard to believe something like this could happen in the U.S.

 

[PachiSusan]

It is nearly unbelievable.  Until you read direct, printed quotes from some from some of the players promoting this stuff.  Then it just becomes frightening, especially when no one else wants to pay mind to it. 

 

Listening to speeches by Bill and Melinda Gates really chilled me to the bone.

[Elisabet1]

I haven't read through all the posts but wanted to address the comparison to SM. My two oldest entered school this year after we moved back to the US. We are after-schooling, though.

 

The transition to CC math has been smooth for my oldest. He is the one that always struggled in math and found it difficult. He grew up doing SM+SM Challenging Word Problems. He worked through them slowly and often had to redo problems. Looking back, I realize that the word problems did not seem so hard for him. This year, hhas worked with an engineering student off and on when he has had difficulty with any concepts, but never the write ups.

 

My 7th grader has had a very different experience. He also did the SM books his brother did. He was able to fly through the SM text book, and some of the extra practice books. Challenging Word Problem were his least favorite. He knew how to solve them but wanted to approach them as mental math. Showing his work and drawing the bar diagrams seemed like a chore, when all the answers were right. At school, he struggles on the write ups that are required for every problem on every test, quiz, and assignment. He has complained that Math class fells like an additional English class, and, after speaking to his teacher, I have learned that this is a common complaint.

 

After the change to the new CC math text, Samples and Populations, the teacher says the A student's grades dropped dramatically. The book is very wordy, you can go through a few pages before ever seeing a number, and it seems to focus on charts. My ds longs for his SM books. I have looked through the PDF book and believe wannabe SM is accurate. The math is not hard, in fact ds feels it is easy and boring. From what I have seen, the problems are related to implementation of new standards, texts, and teaching styles without the correct training. Math teachers are not English teachers, but they spend whole periods trying to teach kids to write paragraphs. Parents are not familiar with this new style of teaching and don't know how to help.

 

At this point, my son is doing a separate book, AOPS, at home. He loves this book. He finally feels he is learning Maths. Over the summer I will pull out CWP and help ds explain the theories, reasoning behind each problem and why he solved it the way he did. I hope it will help him next year. He does not want to come home just yet, because he is at a performing arts school and thoroughly enjoys it.

 

Take from this what you will. My take is that cc can kill math for the math person who enjoys the computations, but may make understanding the reasoning behind the math easier for the non Mathy child. Also, lack of teacher training is making it very hard. Imagine jumping in to SM at book 5A with no prior knowledge of SM bar diagrams. With that in mind, I may sit in on a few classes at school in an attempt to learn how to teach my son the write ups.

Public school math is the non-math "math." If you are designing an airplane, the plane is not going to care if you can write the most eloquent about how the number 5 feels or what color the number 8 is. The plane will just not fly. 

 

The public schools refusal to teach math to public schooled children just means, more and more, than all engineering will be outsourced to other countries. Only the private schooled, home schooled, and international students will have enough math to be able to compete in those fields. I am disgusted that most people passing the laws regarding public education are those who do not even have their own children in public school. 

[brendag]

Remember what I said about that little extra push needed to bring those just-under-proficient-level students up to "proficiency" so that test scores go up?  This is how you do it. The "good" students don't need teaching, the just-under-proficient students need a little extra help, and you put the slow kid in there so they can imitate the others. This way you don't lecture students, because teachers who lecture are bad.  And, this way the students police their own behavior, because they need to work in order to get a grade. "You have to show them through directed teaching and modeling that once the lesson has been taught, the responsibility for learning shifts in total from you to them." This helps with classroom management--a principal who sees a quiet, studious class is a happy principal, regardless of the mechanism.

 

 

A dear friend of mine (teacher) has been going through this with her gifted son (5th grade).  He gets one hour a week to use a computer math program that goes along at his speed.  He scored perfect on the math portion of the test here in CA.  The other 4 hours of math instruction, he has been grouped with lower performing kids so the teacher can focus on the other kids.  He scored almost perfect on the Language portion of the test. The teacher just has him read what he wants during Language Arts.  It's so sad because he's not being challenged at all.  In fact, now if something doesn't come easily to him, he gives up really fast.  Next year, he may not have access to the math computer program and when she asked about what level he would be taught at, she was told he might just have to sit through lessons on things he already knows...for the whole year.  This is in one of the better districts in CA as well.  

 

Nothing surprises me after hearing this.  :(

[PachiSusan]

Public school math is the non-math "math." If you are designing an airplane, the plane is not going to care if you can write the most eloquent about how the number 5 feels or what color the number 8 is. The plane will just not fly. 

 

The public schools refusal to teach math to public schooled children just means, more and more, than all engineering will be outsourced to other countries. Only the private schooled, home schooled, and international students will have enough math to be able to compete in those fields. I am disgusted that most people passing the laws regarding public education are those who do not even have their own children in public school. 

 

I certainly wouldn't want a house built by a feel good math student. I want to know that 10 cm is 10 cm - not how they got the answer. 

[Reefgazer]

Not just Gates, Coleman, and other current players, but it's chilling how very long this has been in the works and how often these fuzzy and mediocre standards have been tried before (didn't succeed because there was no mechanism to keep the teachers in tow up until now).  Some of the referenced names in a few of Courtney's linked articles were active in this movement in the 80s and even earlier. 

Listening to speeches by Bill and Melinda Gates really chilled me to the bone.

 

[Roadrunner]

I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories, so I am not sure how to participate in this conversation.

As to the claims that PS math teaches 10 cm being something other than 10 cm, I just want to sigh. My kids went to PS and I can assure you that the program they used taught math, maybe not the most rigorous variety, but it was most definitely math. If the references are being made to Everyday Mathematics curriculum, that's not specific to CC. I have seen my fair share of bad textbooks pre-CC and I am sure there will be plenty post -CC (well, Everyday Mathematics has two versions kow :) ).

I tend to think that standards don't make or break things and too much importance is ascribed to them. Before CC CA had a set of standards and hundreds of schools failed to meet them. Now we have a new set of standards and unfortunately hundreds of schools will most definitely continue to not meet them. As others have pointed out, the reasons behind the educational failure at many schools are complex. I am no CC expert and therefore can't (nor do I wish) to debate the merits of various standards, but generally object to the sentiment that the new boogie man needs to be blamed for all the ills of the system.

[sweetpea3829]

A dear friend of mine (teacher) has been going through this with her gifted son (5th grade).  He gets one hour a week to use a computer math program that goes along at his speed.  He scored perfect on the math portion of the test here in CA.  The other 4 hours of math instruction, he has been grouped with lower performing kids so the teacher can focus on the other kids.  He scored almost perfect on the Language portion of the test. The teacher just has him read what he wants during Language Arts.  It's so sad because he's not being challenged at all.  In fact, now if something doesn't come easily to him, he gives up really fast.  Next year, he may not have access to the math computer program and when she asked about what level he would be taught at, she was told he might just have to sit through lessons on things he already knows...for the whole year.  This is in one of the better districts in CA as well.  

 

Nothing surprises me after hearing this.   :(

 

 

This is why I don't send my 7 yr old.  He is gifted, especially in math, and he would literally be bored out of his mind.  He would probably end up being a behavior kid because of boredom.

 

Ironically, C had to be tested because of speech articulation issues (back when he was 4).  He scored high on all of the assessments...and in his IEP meeting for speech services, they actually tried to convince me to enroll him because, and I quote, "He would really raise our test averages."  

[PachiSusan]

I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories, so I am not sure how to participate in this conversation.

 

 As others have pointed out, the reasons behind the educational failure at many schools are complex. I am no CC expert and therefore can't (nor do I wish) to debate the merits of various standards, but generally object to the sentiment that the new boogie man needs to be blamed for all the ills of the system.

 

 

I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories here either. I have a reasoned opinion based on my research and personal experience with our Education system. 

 

I am growing tired of the assertion that some people make that if you are against CC it's because you are against THIS administration only. I don't believe I've said anything of the sort nor has any of my fellow moms discussing the "con" side. I'll read back over the thread to be sure though.  I complained vociferously about Race to the Top and NCLB, I was against Goals 2000. I was angry as hell at Reagan for not disbanding the Department of Education like he said he would. I fought against Jimmy Carter starting the Department of Education. It's not personal. 

 

I am all out there. This is/has been a problem going all the way back to John Dewey. It's more pervasive than anyone thinks. No one administration is to blame, no one Dept of Education, not one educrat. It's a pervasive cancer IMO, crossing political and socio-economic lines. 

 

If we trace the efficacy of our education system, it's been downhill the entire way. Just when are we going to decide that outcome based education has failed? Are we just going to keep rolling out new outcome based standards over and over again, re-name them, and try again or are we EVER going to be willing to do something different? 

 

Nothing will change until children and their needs are put first. Not Fed Ed. Not any one philosophy. Not the NGA or the DoE or any other group. Not the Text book publishers bottom line. Not the money anyone will make. 

[Reefgazer]

Neither do I.  The plans for public school are quite in the open, but most don't care to look.

 

ETA:  The bogey-man isn't new; been a round for a long time.  That's why we've had such a long, slow slide in our public schools.

 

I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories, so I am not sure how to participate in this conversation.
As to the claims that PS math teaches 10 cm being something other than 10 cm, I just want to sigh. My kids went to PS and I can assure you that the program they used taught math, maybe not the most vigorous variety, but it was most definitely math. If the references are being made to Everyday Mathematics curriculum, that's not specific to CC. I have seen my fair share of bad textbooks pre-CC and I am sure there will be plenty post -CC (well, Everyday Mathematics has two versions kow :) ).
I tend to think that standards don't make or break things and too much importance is ascribed to them. Before CC CA had a set of standards and hundreds of schools failed to meet them. Now we have a new set of standards and unfortunately hundreds of schools will most definitely continue to not meet them. As others have pointed out, the reasons behind the educational failure at many schools are complex. I am no CC expert and therefore can't (nor do I wish) to debate the merits of various standards, but generally object to the sentiment that the new boogie man needs to be blamed for all the ills of the system.

 

[PachiSusan]

Neither do I.  The plans for public school are quite in the open, but most don't care to look.

 

 

Yeppers. 

[PachiSusan]

whoops - I posted twice instead of editing once. LOL Sign I need to log off and refresh my mind. 

 

 

[Ohdanigirl]

My district started that change the first year of nclb. We're several years down the road now, and people have stopped complaining, because the elementary teachers with mathematical backgrounds have consistently explained that solutions are required in math, not answers and they have trained the students to give solutions. It's a good thing, because many of the students will wag and move on to chit chat rather than think thru what they are doing if they have the opportunity to just throw out an answer. Also, students like your son who can do the assignments mentally can switch to the next grade level for just math (for 6th or higher)..although if they haven't mastered presenting solutions it is not advisable and they'd be better served with more challenging problem sets.

 

When you say presenting, do you mean explaining the whys? My son understand why he has to perform the function that he does, and can explain what he is doing, but neither he or I have figured out what they want. That is what is frustrating. For example, 4+8=12. Ds knows this to be true, but how do you write a paragraph explaining why it is true? He understands that you are increasing the number 8 by four, but writing that would not get him a point in his write up.

 

Public school math is the non-math "math." If you are designing an airplane, the plane is not going to care if you can write the most eloquent about how the number 5 feels or what color the number 8 is. The plane will just not fly.

 

The public schools refusal to teach math to public schooled children just means, more and more, than all engineering will be outsourced to other countries. Only the private schooled, home schooled, and international students will have enough math to be able to compete in those fields. I am disgusted that most people passing the laws regarding public education are those who do not even have their own children in public school.

 

Very well said.

 

Your son's AoPS book would be able to help him with that. You can go over the worked examples with him as well as how he write out his solutions to the questions.

Thanks

[Arcadia]

For example, 4+8=12. Ds knows this to be true, but how do you write a paragraph explaining why it is true? He understands that you are increasing the number 8 by four, but writing that would not get him a point in his write up.

 

What my younger boy's 5th grade school math book expect the students to do to "show working"

 

First draw a number line. Then because it is + 8, you end up drawing 8 "loops" to the right from the number 4 on the number line. So the end result is 12.

There is also a verbose way of explaining but I forgot.

[lewelma]

Sounds like the system is going to keep the private tutors in business. 

 

I charge $50/hr and you have to come to me. :001_smile:  I have so many takers, I could probably charge more.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Arcadia]

Sounds like the system is going to keep the private tutors in business.

Private tutoring is lucrative for freelancers and tution centers here. But that makes the system more "uneven".

[Reefgazer]

I think you're right on this.  I'm afraid this will just increase the gap between the haves and have-nots.

Sounds like the system is going to keep the private tutors in business. 

 

I charge $50/hr and you have to come to me. :001_smile:  I have so many takers, I could probably charge more.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

[Ohdanigirl]

What my younger boy's 5th grade school math book expect the students to do to "show working"

 

First draw a number line. Then because it is + 8, you end up drawing 8 "loops" to the right from the number 4 on the number line. So the end result is 12.

There is also a verbose way of explaining but I forgot.

I did see something like that when researching cc teaching methods, but he actually has to write out a paragraph for EACH problem set. As a result, students are only assigned about 4 problems per HW. Not enough repetition to learn new math concepts, in my opinion. To add to this issue, HW write ups are not returned with clear explanations of what students did or did not do right. They get credit fo doing the HW and getting the math right. 100% in HW for ds. This makes learning how to improve write up difficult, resulting in low marks on tests due to the write ups. If you find the verbose way of explaining, I would love to see it. We are working on figuring out the formula. KWIM

[nature girl]

I did see something like that when researching cc teaching methods, but he actually has to write out a paragraph for EACH problem set. As a result, students are only assigned about 4 problems per HW. Not enough repetition to learn new math concepts, in my opinion. To add to this issue, HW write ups are not returned with clear explanations of what students did or did not do right. They get credit fo doing the HW and getting the math right. 100% in HW for ds. This makes learning how to improve write up difficult, resulting in low marks on tests due to the write ups. If you find the verbose way of explaining, I would love to see it. We are working on figuring out the formula. KWIM

 

What happens when kids don't actually write up the ridiculous explanations? If my kid was in public elementary, I'd have him answer the problems in the quickest way possible, and send notes home every day saying he'd solved the problems in his head, and I'd spent the time he would have wasted afterschooling instead, teaching the things IMO he should have been learning. Maybe he'd get a B or C for math, but in 4th grade who cares?

[Courtney_Ostaff]

The problem is the school can and will then refuse to place the student a college prep track in middle school because the student has not proved that they can handle the work. The unspoken explanation is also that they don't want to be bothered with a PITA parent.

[PachiSusan]

What happens when kids don't actually write up the ridiculous explanations? If my kid was in public elementary, I'd have him answer the problems in the quickest way possible, and send notes home every day saying he'd solved the problems in his head, and I'd spent the time he would have wasted afterschooling instead, teaching the things IMO he should have been learning. Maybe he'd get a B or C for math, but in 4th grade who cares?

 

My friend has a 3rd grader doing CC math...she was marked wrong if she didn't do the problem the "RIGHT" way. The answer wasn't as important as the way to get to it. She got partial credit for the right answer at least. 

[Arcadia]

This makes learning how to improve write up difficult, resulting in low marks on tests due to the write ups.

 

Ask his teacher to see the marking scheme for the tests.  That would be the easiest way to find out what kind of write up is expected to score higher. Just ask for a 15-30 min. appointment with his teacher, here the teachers would have to make time for a 15 min. appointment if parents request at any time of the school year

 

If the teacher is reluctant to show you his/her marking scheme, then look at how the write ups are done for the work examples in his school math textbook. If there are no examples of writing a paragraph in the textbook's work examples, you could ask the teacher for examples.

 

For your example of 4 + 8 = 12   Let me give you a longer working (just because I am being silly)

 

On the left hand side, 4 + 8

= 4 + (6 + 2)

= (4 + 6) + 2

= 10 + 2

 

On the right hand side, 12

= 10 + 2

 

LHS = RHS

Therefore  4 + 8 = 12  

[nature girl]

Is that what they're looking for???? Couldn't he just say as his "explanation" that he'd memorized all addition facts up to 20? smh!

[PachiSusan]

Ask his teacher to see the marking scheme for the tests.  That would be the easiest way to find out what kind of write up is expected to score higher. Just ask for a 15-30 min. appointment with his teacher, here the teachers would have to make time for a 15 min. appointment if parents request at any time of the school year

 

If the teacher is reluctant to show you his/her marking scheme, then look at how the write ups are done for the work examples in his school math textbook. If there are no examples of writing a paragraph in the textbook's work examples, you could ask the teacher for examples.

 

For your example of 4 + 8 = 12   Let me give you a longer working (just because I am being silly)

 

On the left hand side, 4 + 8

= 4 + (6 + 2)

= (4 + 6) + 2

= 10 + 2

 

On the right hand side, 12

= 10 + 2

 

LHS = RHS

Therefore  4 + 8 = 12  

 

Not being snarky, but WHY is this so important to do? That just convolutes the issue to me. Its like they are pushing written mental math. 

[PachiSusan]

Is that what they're looking for???? Couldn't he just say as his "explanation" that he'd memorized all addition facts up to 20? smh!

 

They don't want memorization of the standard algorithm. They want mastery of their new/old method. They want all children to learn this way. That's one big thing I detest about CC.  In their mind, There is a right way (theirs) - then other ways you can do it with, but that show no understanding of the concept. 

[Roadrunner]

Not being snarky, but WHY is this so important to do? That just convolutes the issue to me. Its like they are pushing written mental math.

Attached is the pick of my first grade math notebook (my mom saved it for me :) ). This explains why you and I have so very different ideas about math.

 

 

[PachiSusan]

Attached is the pick of my first grade math notebook (my mom saved it for me :) ). This explains why you and I have so very different ideas about math.

 

http://postimg.org/image/5vwdtayyn/

 

Maybe. Cultural and age differences shape our perceptions.   :)  I'm also 50 years old. I've had a different education experience than most of the American women here anyway. 

 

And may I say that your writing was absolutely beautiful!!! 

[Roadrunner]

Maybe. Cultural and age differences shape our perceptions.   :)  I'm also 50 years old. I've had a different education experience than most of the American women here anyway. 

 

And may I say that your writing was absolutely beautiful!!! 

Just managed to post the pic. It's identical to Arcadia's example. :)

[Roadrunner]

 

 

And may I say that your writing was absolutely beautiful!!! 

Thank you. :) I was six. I can't get my 9 year old to write in a number inside a square. It's terrible. 

[nature girl]

Okay, it makes sense when I see the larger sums, mental math is useful and that's probably how we all do them in our heads. Still seems ridiculous to require it for 4+8, but I understand the reasons behind it.

[PachiSusan]

Thank you. :) I was six. I can't get my 9 year old to write in a number inside a square. It's terrible. 

 

You don't want to see my 11 year old's numbers. SIGH...

[Ohdanigirl]

What happens when kids don't actually write up the ridiculous explanations? If my kid was in public elementary, I'd have him answer the problems in the quickest way possible, and send notes home every day saying he'd solved the problems in his head, and I'd spent the time he would have wasted afterschooling instead, teaching the things IMO he should have been learning. Maybe he'd get a B or C for math, but in 4th grade who cares?

This would lead to no higher than a C in math, but could get you a D if you are not careful. We are after schooling math, and I must point out, he is in 7th. I was concerned about future placement in classes. He gets automatic admission into an IB magnet, and the counselor there seems like he would be willing to place him according to my recs, so I'm just having ds pull for a C. At the same time, a higher grade would allow him to get into the advanced class, which means a better teacher.

 

  

Ask his teacher to see the marking scheme for the tests.  That would be the easiest way to find out what kind of write up is expected to score higher. Just ask for a 15-30 min. appointment with his teacher, here the teachers would have to make time for a 15 min. appointment if parents request at any time of the school year

 

If the teacher is reluctant to show you his/her marking scheme, then look at how the write ups are done for the work examples in his school math textbook. If there are no examples of writing a paragraph in the textbook's work examples, you could ask the teacher for examples.

 

For your example of 4 + 8 = 12   Let me give you a longer working (just because I am being silly)

 

On the left hand side, 4 + 8

= 4 + (6 + 2)

= (4 + 6) + 2

= 10 + 2

 

On the right hand side, 12

= 10 + 2

 

LHS = RHS

Therefore  4 + 8 = 12

 

I did not see any worked problems in the text at all. As of yesterday they have moved on to new book, which I still have to download into Kindle for review. We are waiting for the test from Monday to be grade, and the teacher said he will email me once the grade is out. When he does, I will be at his door waiting to go over kitty him. I have told ds to just add in some SM style bar diagrams, to see if it will gain him any points.

 

  

Is that what they're looking for???? Couldn't he just say as his "explanation" that he'd memorized all addition facts up to 20? smh!

 

no, this would be a zero. He tried something along the line of 4x5 =20 because five groups of four add up to twenty. No go. I asked the teacher if the bar diagrams would help, and he seemed to like the idea in addition to the above explanation. He will hAve at least one more test before the end of the year, and I am hoping to get an idea by then to help him shore well and bring up his average. The teacher has agreed to drop his lowest test grade.

[Nart]

Attached is the pick of my first grade math notebook (my mom saved it for me :) ). This explains why you and I have so very different ideas about math.

 

math.jpg

This is really interesting to see.  I would love to see more pictures of your notebook. How about an example of subtraction?

[Roadrunner]

This is really interesting to see.  I would love to see more pictures of your notebook. How about an example of subtraction?

I am going to post them as separate replies since they files are large. 

 

This is the example of subtraction.

 

At the bottom is word problem. The left side has given: 10 men, 17 more men than women. The same number of children as the number of men and women combined. The right hand side states the question: "how many kids?" The solution is self-explanatory. :)

[Arcadia]

I did not see any worked problems in the text at all. As of yesterday they have moved on to new book, which I still have to download into Kindle for review. We are waiting for the test from Monday to be grade, and the teacher said he will email me once the grade is out. When he does, I will be at his door waiting to go over kitty him. I have told ds to just add in some SM style bar diagrams, to see if it will gain him any points.

.......

 He tried something along the line of 4x5 =20 because five groups of four add up to twenty. No go.

 

Look for something like this below (pdf) which is from Dimensions Math Common Core 7A textbook.  The steps in the worked examples in that pdf is similar to what my kid's teacher expects for pre-algebra and algebra (bar diagram optional).

http://www.singaporemath.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/sp_dmt7a6.pdf

 

 

I am going to post them as separate replies since they files are large. 

 

Did you have to copy math exercises from the big black chalkboard too?

Even when Singapore Primary Math was implemented in 1982, my math teachers would still give extra math problems on the chalkboard and we have to copy them into our math notebooks to do. Those were the days of flying chalk dusters if we misbehave.

[Roadrunner]

This is really interesting to see.  I would love to see more pictures of your notebook. How about an example of subtraction?

 

 

 

 

hopefully this works. 

 

The last pic shows an example of first grade algebra. :)

[Roadrunner]

Look for something like this below (pdf) which is from Dimensions Math Common Core 7A textbook. The steps in the worked examples in that pdf is similar to what my kid's teacher expects for pre-algebra and algebra (bar diagram optional).

http://www.singaporemath.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/sp_dmt7a6.pdf

 

 

 

Did you have to copy math exercises from the big black chalkboard too?

Even when Singapore Primary Math was implemented in 1982, my math teachers would still give extra math problems on the chalkboard and we have to copy them into our math notebooks to do. Those were the days of flying chalk dusters if we misbehave.

We copied them from the textbook, but during the class time the teacher would call a random person to the chalkboard and give you a problem to solve in front of the entire class. Most of the classtime was spent doing just that.

[Nart]

 

 

 

 

hopefully this works.

 

The last pic shows an example of first grade algebra. :)

Wow, really impressive for first grade! The printing is so neat and it looks like it was done in pen not pencil. Is first grade the same age as in the US- start at age 6 and turn 7 years old?

[Roadrunner]

Wow, really impressive for first grade! The printing is so neat and it looks like it was done in pen not pencil. Is first grade the same age as in the US- start at age 6 and turn 7 years old?

I believe so.

Teachers were mean. They marked every little imperfection with a red pen.

Yes, it's all done in a pen. No pencils. :)