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Saxon math after Bob Jones? and Saxon geometry?


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My oldest completed Bob Jones algebra 1 recently and I'm trying to decide where to go from here. I would like much more help in teaching math beyond this. Saxon's Teacher CD-Roms look great and so I was considering switching. I thought geometry was included in Saxon but now they have a separate geometry book. I'm not sure if we should plan on doing the Saxon geometry book or not.

 

Would it work to go from Bob Jones algebra 1 to Saxon algebra 2 and not worry about a special geometry course?

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As far as I can tell, BJU doesn't have DVD courses for algebra 1 or 2, and has them for Geometry but doesn't sell them. :huh:  They have online classes for around $300 per student which is a bit steep considering that I have several kids coming along after him. I'm wishing I had realized how hard some of this was going to be to teach.

 

What if he did Saxon's Geometry as well? Wouldn't that make up for whatever he missed in algebra 1? I'm willing to stick with BJU and actually really like it. It's just gotten to be so expensive to get help teaching it...

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So here's what I'm thinking for my boys... please tell me if this won't work!

 

10th grader:

 

9th grade: BJU algebra 1 (finished)

10th: Saxon algebra 2

11th: Saxon geometry

12th: Saxon advanced mathematics

 

9th grader:

 

basic Saxon sequence... thinking separate geometry wouldn't be necessary since it's included in the algebra and advanced books..... correct?

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Have you used the Saxon placement test?  Because the Saxon approach is slightly different, I wouldn't jump into Algebra II without checking that.  Saxon teaches geometry all along versus in a separate book, and the Advanced Math book is usually done over two years with half lessons.  Sonlight has the placement test and more information (http://www.sonlight.com/saxon-placement-tests.html).

 

I've used Saxon since Algebra 1/2, and here's what I have on the transcripts per Art Reed (http://www.homeschoolwithsaxon.com/):

 

Algebra I

Algebra II

Geometry with Advanced Algebra (1/2 of the Advanced Math book)

Trigonometry with Pre-Calculus (1/2 of the Advanced Math book)

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It's recommended that geometry is taken before algebra 2.

 

Older Saxon books included geometry. There is now a separate geometry book.

 

We have been using Saxon since 2nd grade and are currently in Algebra 1 and will be moving onto Geometry next.

 

We love the Saxon teacher CDs. Every single problem is explained, plus the lesson instruction.

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Bob Jones is a 'traditional' approach.  Saxon is, well, Saxon.  It teaches the same topics in a completely different manner and because of this it is not recommended to jump in after Algebra 1. It is possible to begin Saxon at Algebra 2 but the student will be at a disadvantage as there will be a steep learning curve.  This does not mean that Saxon is 'more advanced'-- it simply means that Saxon has unique ways of teaching/working probems and their Algebra 2 program expects students to be familiar with how they taught (and the unique vocabulary/methods used) in the Algebra 1 program-- the Algebra 2 text DOES NOT CONTAIN REVIEW--- it just continues where the Algebra 1 text left off-- moving slightly slower in the first 30 lessons then it rapidly picks up the pace. 

 

If you decide to go with Saxon be prepared to switch back to a traditional program if the Saxon method does not work for your student (in my teaching experience 30% of my (Saxon) students would have had more success with a traditional program).  If you move to Saxon I recommend purchasing the Algebra 1 text and having your student work through it quickly this summer to get familiar with the program.

 

Saxon can be a good program IF it works with the way your student thinks-- if it does not then it is a nightmare of unnecessary frustration that can 'suck the life' out of a students desire to learn math.  I've had students fail a Saxon class and go on to make an A in a traditional class-- I've never had a student fail a traditional class and go on to master (A) in Saxon.

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Bob Jones is a 'traditional' approach.  Saxon is, well, Saxon.  It teaches the same topics in a completely different manner and because of this it is not recommended to jump in after Algebra 1.

 

  By this do you mean that the 3rd edition is integrated with Geometry and does some jump into and out of topics?

 

The lessons themselves are not that different from other text books I have seen ( I have never seen a Bob Jones text).  The problem sets are good and have both easy and more challenging items.  Since there is so much free supplemental materials available such as Kahn Academy, then the problems should be doable for most students with some effort.

 

The newer standalone Saxon Geometry book is good and has more material then is actually needed for a high school level course (my son just used completed a class with it).  This might be a better next text for this student.

 

 

 

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Ok, thank you. :)  After reading more reviews of Saxon I'm thinking it might drive my kids nuts. They've done BJU since 1st grade and are used to that way of doing math. I'm thinking something like Teaching Textbooks might be a better fit, and give me the help teaching math that I need. But I'm still doing research.

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  By this do you mean that the 3rd edition is integrated with Geometry and does some jump into and out of topics?

 

The lessons themselves are not that different from other text books I have seen ( I have never seen a Bob Jones text).  The problem sets are good and have both easy and more challenging items.  Since there is so much free supplemental materials available such as Kahn Academy, then the problems should be doable for most students with some effort.

 

The newer standalone Saxon Geometry book is good and has more material then is actually needed for a high school level course (my son just used completed a class with it).  This might be a better next text for this student.

 

A traditional text teaches concepts in a fluid fashion.  Each lesson builds on the previous one directly.  Most traditional texts are divided into units or chapters that discuss and present lessons on the same topics (for example: linear equations). 

Saxon teaches a 'piece' of a (traditional) lesson each day.  The next day's lesson will be on a totally different topic. The third day a completely different topic... but eventually the students see something familiar (there IS a method to this process-- but it does not work well with all learning types). Saxon students need to put these small 'pieces' together on their own into full concepts.   The practice problems after lesson 30 or so will NOT look like previous homework problems-- they will be COMBINATIONS of several prior lessons and the student will need to make the conncections in order to solve the problem-- the text (lesson) will NOT show/model how these go together.  If a student slips on one 'piece' the result will be a snowball effect-- good grades that slowly spiral downward for no 'visible' reason (the original good grades make the student --and parent-- think all is well when something major has been missed!) 

 

I taught Saxon (high school level) for over 10 years-- my own daughters used it through 87 when it no longer worked for THEIR learning styles.  I switched to a more traditional text for my classes (and my daughters)-- the traditional style works for a much much higher percentage of students. 

 

I still have much respect for Saxon-- I had many students who did very well with the program and who were able to transition into college level maths without difficulty.  I also had at least 30% of my students who would have better had they switched to a traditional text. 

 

 

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I would love to stick with BJU but I can't afford $300+ times 5 kids for either the online or DVD classes times 4 years of high school math. Of course, that's assuming they do all of their math at home. Some of it might happen at the community college. But even if they all do Running Start/dual enrollment for junior/senior years, we're talking about $3000 just for math instruction for algebra and geometry. [gasp]

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A traditional text teaches concepts in a fluid fashion.  Each lesson builds on the previous one directly.  Most traditional texts are divided into units or chapters that discuss and present lessons on the same topics (for example: linear equations). 

Saxon teaches a 'piece' of a (traditional) lesson each day.  The next day's lesson will be on a totally different topic. The third day a completely different topic... but eventually the students see something familiar (there IS a method to this process-- but it does not work well with all learning types). Saxon students need to put these small 'pieces' together on their own into full concepts.   The practice problems after lesson 30 or so will NOT look like previous homework problems-- they will be COMBINATIONS of several prior lessons and the student will need to make the conncections in order to solve the problem-- the text (lesson) will NOT show/model how these go together.  If a student slips on one 'piece' the result will be a snowball effect-- good grades that slowly spiral downward for no 'visible' reason (the original good grades make the student --and parent-- think all is well when something major has been missed!) 

 

thanks for the clarification on the problem sets - my son used newer edition Algebra 1 and Geometry at his charter school - I guess I didn't really notice this but should have expected it since by the later lessons the student would have the necessary background

 

Spiraling back to older material is a strength of the Saxon problem sets.  I have noticed some other traditional flow texts such as AMSCO have added "spiraling" problems.

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Have you looked at Lials Algebra?  You would still need to select a geometry course.  I agree that starting Saxon after Algebra 1 will not work well.  It is just too different and geometry is worked into the course.  We used Saxon for my oldest, but my youngest is using TT.  You could also look at MUS.  The scope and sequence is different, but it might be a good fit.

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