Homeschool teen kicked out of local prom because the male chaperones found her too sexy

[kwg]

That is disgusting.

 

I read this as an update of sorts (re:the race issue) http://www.hannahettinger.com/an-update-on-clare/

[Moxie]

Behold....

 

 

As awesome as that is, strapless?? Really?? Shoulders are very attractive to young boys!!

[ocelotmom]

 Her date was a young black man.  I wonder if that had anything at all to do with it?

 

That was my thought as soon as I saw that picture.

 

I honestly have a hard time getting myself worked up about this one. Yes, rape culture is horribly wrong, harmful, and needs fixing at a societal level. But I wouldn't go to a prom put on by a Christian homeschool group expecting otherwise any more than I'd go to a frat party with the assumption that everyone is going to be sitting around playing Monopoly and drinking Pepsi.

 

I also agree with whoever said they suspect she's a pot-stirrer. A quick look at the blog shows that Christian patriarchy and spiritual abuse is the primary focus, and that the family relatively recently left a fundamentalist church (and perhaps that also made her a target at this event?).

 

(Which isn't to say I'm not supportive of her. I hope she's a pot-stirrer getting the exact reaction she hoped for, and not someone entirely innocent who had a special night ruined.)

[Kathryn]

Did the males have a problem? Or did "Mrs. D" have a problem with the male attention being on her? I think that Mrs. D may have been the only one with an issue - and possibly an old axe to grind. Just because she blamed the excuse for having her leave on "the dads" doesn't make it so.

 

It sounds to me like a prudish old bat had a jealousy issue with the pretty young girl.

My thought as well.

 

ETA especially after reading the actual blog post.

[milovany]

Interesting.  Usually, long before now on this board, someone would say, "I have a feeling there's more to the story than what we're reading" in this type of situation (quoting a news story that contains "outrageous" claims).   I'd love to hear the WHOLE story.  I have a feeling there's more to the story than what we're reading. 

[Mandylubug]

I would guess there is more to the story and I know that according our our co-op dresscode for prom, that dress would be considered inappropriate.

 

However, if it happened as icky as it sounds, I'd be very mad.

[Mom in High Heels]

As awesome as that is, strapless?? Really?? Shoulders are very attractive to young boys!!

 

Agreed!  There is entirely too much skin showing!  Whore.

[Mrs Mungo]

Whether the girl's sister's blog is anti-patriarchy or the family left a fundamentalist church *really* shouldn't play into how she was treated at a homeschool event, IMO. I don't care if she is an "envelope pusher." If her dress was within the dress code, then she stays. If you want a stricter dress code next year, go for it.

 

Fingertip length skirts is a dumb rule. I am 5'1", and I have short arms. A skirt just below my fingertips would barely cover my ass (and realistically, wouldn't cover it, if I was dancing). A flat rule like "knee length" or a rule like no less than x inches above the knee would be better.

 

Eta: Note that the story says it was not held by a Christian group.

 

My eldest has an event to attend related to an extra-curricular. Their dress code is more strict. Their shoulders must be covered and dresses/skirts must be to the knee. But, that isn't the point here. The point is that this girls was following the dress code for *this* event.

[ocelotmom]

Whether the girl's sister's blog is anti-patriarchy or the family left a fundamentalist church *really* shouldn't play into how she was treated at a homeschool event, IMO. I don't care if she is an "envelope pusher." If her dress was within the dress code, then she stays. If you want a stricter dress code next year, go for it.

 

 

I don't disagree with you at all. Perhaps I wasn't clear - Christian groups throwing homeschool proms don't tend to be people that I would expect to handle women's sexuality in a reasonable manner, so it utterly fails to shock me when they prove my expectations.

 

(I do realize that there are plenty of reasonable Christians out there, but they don't tend to be forming specifically Christian homeschooling groups that hold proms.)

[Excelsior! Academy]

Whether the girl's sister's blog is anti-patriarchy or the family left a fundamentalist church *really* shouldn't play into how she was treated at a homeschool event, IMO. I don't care if she is an "envelope pusher." If her dress was within the dress code, then she stays. If you want a stricter dress code next year, go for it.

 

Fingertip length skirts is a dumb rule. I am 5'1", and I have short arms. A skirt just below my fingertips would barely cover my ass (and realistically, wouldn't cover it, if I was dancing). A flat rule like "knee length" or a rule like no less than x inches above the knee would be better.

 

Eta: Note that the story says it was not held by a Christian group.

 

My eldest has an event to attend related to an extra-curricular. Their dress code is more strict. Their shoulders must be covered and dresses/skirts must be to the knee. But, that isn't the point here. The point is that this girls was following the dress code for *this* event.

 

Yes!!

 

 

 

 

I think it is a silly rule, however she *was* following the rule.  It doesn't matter what anyone thinks about the rule, either change it or don't complain! 

[Mom in High Heels]

I don't disagree with you at all. Perhaps I wasn't clear - Christian groups throwing homeschool proms don't tend to be people that I would expect to handle women's sexuality in a reasonable manner, so it utterly fails to shock me when they prove my expectations.

 

(I do realize that there are plenty of reasonable Christians out there, but they don't tend to be forming specifically Christian homeschooling groups that hold proms.)

 

But it wasn't thrown by a Christian group.  It says so in the second article posted.

[ocelotmom]

But it wasn't thrown by a Christian group.  It says so in the second article posted.

 

No, it says that it wasn't an explicitly Christian event and not sponsored by a church. 

 

I read another article prior to seeing this thread that stated the prom was Christian. I think that's where I'm getting it from. I can see nothing in the article to back this up (eg. info about a specific group sponsoring the prom), and the source is not an actual news site (in other words, reliability is questionable), so it's possible that article is wrong.

[inmyopinion]

We are a Christian group and have a dress code.  The intent is to set a standard NOT to embarrass or punish someone.  We do not even have someone designated to monitor it.  If someone showed up and did not adhere to it, we would let it go (unless it were extreme and we would make it work somehow).  It is not worth hurting a young person, embarrassing them, or ruining what should be a memorable evening.  

[unsinkable]

Interesting. Usually, long before now on this board, someone would say, "I have a feeling there's more to the story than what we're reading" in this type of situation (quoting a news story that contains "outrageous" claims). I'd love to hear the WHOLE story. I have a feeling there's more to the story than what we're reading.

Yeah, I'd like to hear the response from the organizers and the people who made the decision to tell her to leave. She wrote she was told she was dancing too provocatively, (plus the dress) and she denied she was even dancing.

 

Three sides to every story.

[Farrar]

Honestly, if there's "more to the story" I wouldn't be surprised if it was that they had it in for her because of her sister's blog or her family's views on religion.  In other words, they still come off looking like the intolerant ones.  If they wanted to hold a Christian homeschool prom with a stricter dress code, that's fine, but they held a big inclusive one with a looser dress code.  And then when they couldn't come up with a reason to toss her out, they escalated a confrontation.

 

I'm not surprised or anything else, I guess.  It's all just sad though.  I get so sick of the way we talk about how girls dress...  and these assumptions go way beyond any sort of conservative Christian groups.

[nansk]

Fingertip length ... is a dumb rule.

 

A flat rule like "knee length" or a rule like no less than x inches above the knee would be better.

This is the thought I always have whenever I read a thread about dress length/shorts.

[GailV]

From what I've read while poking around, another girl was also asked to leave, so this girl was NOT singled out.  And some have said the girl who wrote the article was rather belligerent about the entire thing, which possibly escalated everything.  

 

Several interracial couples were in attendance, so that wasn't an issue.

 

The dads were up above the group because the event was attended by 500 kids -- they had some chaperones above and some on the dance floor so they could better keep track of what was going on.  So it wasn't like a group of guys said, "Oh, hey, I've got an idea -- we can optimize our leering if we go up here!"

 

Apparently part of the problem was that when she raised her arms the dress went up to undie- flashing territory.  But, hey, that's what happens with short dresses -- make the dress code different if you have a problem with that.

[DawnM]

Maybe this is more of a Duggar type homeschooling prom.

 

 

LOL

 

Oh come on.  I'd write "F the ..." first and last time out of the gate. 

 

I think it's probably normal for many teens to "test" things.  But looking at her dress, it's not any racier than other dresses I've seen for those occasions. 

 

[unsinkable]

From what I've read while poking around, another girl was also asked to leave, so this girl was NOT singled out. And some have said the girl who wrote the article was rather belligerent about the entire thing, which possibly escalated everything.

 

Several interracial couples were in attendance, so that wasn't an issue.

 

The dads were up above the group because the event was attended by 500 kids -- they had some chaperones above and some on the dance floor so they could better keep track of what was going on. So it wasn't like a group of guys said, "Oh, hey, I've got an idea -- we can optimize our leering if we go up here!"

 

Apparently part of the problem was that when she raised her arms the dress went up to undie- flashing territory. But, hey, that's what happens with short dresses -- make the dress code different if you have a problem with that.

I don't think "don't show your panties" should have to be a rule that is spelled out.

 

I actually thought it was nice that there wasn't a huge list of rules for the dress code. I thought it gave the attendees some credit for knowing what would be appropriate.

[mom2scouts]

I agree that fingertip length is a stupid rule.  I have very long arms, so my dress would be halfway to my knees, but some shorter limbed people I know would be showing their underwear.

[In2why]

I would guess there is more to the story and I know that according our our co-op dresscode for prom, that dress would be considered inappropriate.

 

However, if it happened as icky as it sounds, I'd be very mad.

Legitimately curious as to what the dress code for a homeschool prom might be.  Her dress was longer than fingertips and didn't have spaghetti straps.   Are they required to wear a floor length dress?  

 

We attend a co-op and haven't had to deal with dress code issues because, well frankly, I have boys and the dress code doesn't seem to be an issue for boys other than illegal messages on t-shirts, which we don't own.  I have to be careful myself because I am also very long legged with long arms and they don't even make shorts that long.  At least not that I can find.  I guess I will wear capris all summer.   I am sure I wouldn't cause impure thoughts in the teen boys though.  

[Word Nerd]

Did the males have a problem?  Or did "Mrs. D" have a problem with the male attention being on her?  I think that Mrs. D may have been the only one with an issue - and possibly an old axe to grind.  Just because she blamed the excuse for having her leave on "the dads" doesn't make it so.

 

It sounds to me like a prudish old bat had a jealousy issue with the pretty young girl.

 

I agree. It sounds more like Mrs. D is the one who had a problem with her. It's convenient that she could blame a group of nameless male chaperones.

 

She's a beautiful girl. I doubt there's anything she could wear that wouldn't draw attention to that fact.

[Guest]

We had a mom like this at co-op before. I would always think I must be oblivious, because she constantly complained about "immodest clothing" and could name which girls wore what all the time and I never, ever saw any clothing issues on a single person! It was so weird. I always wondered how a person could waste so much energy scrutinizing everybody's clothing! Ou see what you look for, I guess.

[Rivka]

I think I've posted this article here before, but I can't resist posting it again in this thread:

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/02/who-are-the-real-babies-house-proofing-and-modesty.html

 

 

 

I was raised on the Pearls’ disciplinary methods. The Pearls teach that you don’t child-proof your house, you house-proof your child. As soon as a child is old enough to move around, say nine or ten months, you teach her what not to touch. If she reaches for a laptop left out on the couch, you tell her “no†and give her a little slap on the hand. If she does it again, you repeat, over and over, until she eventually learns not to touch it.

 

I was also raised on the modesty teachings of the purity culture. I was taught that women must be careful what they wear so as not to lead men astray into sexual thoughts. Women should cover their bodies to protect the men around them from temptation.

 

Blogger Biblical Personhood pointed out in an excellent blog post not too long ago that there is a contradiction at work here. Babies are expected to have self-control, but men are not. I’m not sure how I didn’t see this contradiction growing up! [...]

 

When you’re raised in the movement, even the smallest children are taught to have self control and to not touch what is right in front of their eyes. In fact, it’s considered quite the accomplishment to be able to leave an expensive vase or dish of candy on a coffee table and know that even the child just learning to pull herself to standing won’t touch them. It’s a way of showcasing your children’s obedience and your success at child training.

 

For some reason, doing the same for adult men – i.e. placing a woman in a miniskirt or low-cut shirt in his line of vision and expecting him to not act on his desires – is unacceptable. Babies have to have self-control. Adult men can’t be expected to have self-control. Parents shouldn’t remove objects of temptation from babies’ line of vision. Women should cover up everything that might prove tempting from men’s line of vision.

[Mandylubug]

Legitimately curious as to what the dress code for a homeschool prom might be. Her dress was longer than fingertips and didn't have spaghetti straps. Are they required to wear a floor length dress?

 

We attend a co-op and haven't had to deal with dress code issues because, well frankly, I have boys and the dress code doesn't seem to be an issue for boys other than illegal messages on t-shirts, which we don't own. I have to be careful myself because I am also very long legged with long arms and they don't even make shorts that long. At least not that I can find. I guess I will wear capris all summer. I am sure I wouldn't cause impure thoughts in the teen boys though.

well all i can see is the one pic with her turned to the side. The neckline looks like a fairly decent v cut with the potential for cleavage. That would be the rule broken in our co-op. Potentially the back if its below the shoulder blades. Hard to tell from the side profile. I can absolutely see how dancing with arms up would make it inappropriate if it was riding up.

 

I personally don't care for the dress. We don't know how detailed their dresscode is from that one article at least. However, I just don't see sending the girl home. It covers more than shorts and other outfits you see popular.

[Audrey]

I hate the argument that girls/women have to dress so as not to "tempt" boys/men or lead them to "impure" thoughts, etc.

 

Even if I put the biggest bucket on the biggest tractor I have, it is still not enough to move that big a pile of bull flop.

 

I would much rather my son see people how they will dress.  Yes, some people have a taste for some very skimpy clothing.  It is a teachable moment when we come across those people.  We do people no favours by enabling them.  Men are not so damn precious that they can't control their own sexuality.  MOST men, the enormously VAST majority of men manage to do that every single day of their lives without the influence of the bizarreness that is the "patriarchal movement."  Insinuating otherwise is an insult to millions of very good men everywhere.

[bolt.]

To me, speculating on "both sides of the story" I think the following is most likely:

 

A. This is not a "Christian" group, and is thus open to all, but it has a "Christian" (and probably conservative) overall culture, particularly among leaders/organizers/founders.

 

B. There has been trouble over people who are in the group, but don't automatically know/follow the culture, so they found they need to make rules about "obvious" things, since it turns out that not everyone is "like minded" these days.

 

C. Having little experience with people who don't think it's "obvious" that teens should refrain from being overtly sexy, they try to make generous rules (to be inclusive)

 

D. They are later shocked to see the agregate of just barely meeting those rules on an overtly sexy teen.

 

E. The teen, I imagine, enjoys her edgy status and her sexy body, and the power inherent in those things. She probably set out with the objective of being as sexy as possible while still complying with the "letter of the law".

 

F. The woman chaperone knows the girl, interpreted that intent and saw her as trying to circumvent the "spirit" of the rules (ie "not to sexy please") and deserving to be sent home.

 

G. I imagine she asked for the male's opinions, because that is pretty conservative-normal (ask a dad or brother if your outfit is too alluring) and, if she is highly conservative, she would have viewed her 'authority' as derivative from male authority, and requiring male backup.

 

H. The males then needed to look closely at the dress and the teen to render their assessment. The teen interpreted this as leering, especially given that their judgement essentially was, "Yes, she's very sexy in that dress." (They probably looked at her from where they were.)

 

I. During the leering/examination, I imagine that the teen (swaying to the music) made some acknowledgment of their leering/examination that was, perhaps, "saucy" and/or provocative, or perhaps a wave that raised her hemline. (Which was later consudered part of her style if dancing.)

 

J. The combination of being at home with her sensuality, diliberately provocative movements, a flauntingly just-barely regulation dress, and a 'kiss my backside' attitude shoved the adults (I think primarily the woman) into a power struggle where she had all the power, and entirely misused it.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Meh. I have met enough sanctimonious shrews and pervy patriarch dads to believe her version of events.

[Kerileanne99]

Exactly. If there was a detailed dress code in place, there is no reason to have sent her home. Next year implement a strict dress code if the dress bothers them so much. The dress covered her, so it wasn't a matter of indecency. The child shouldn't have been punished for the lack of detail in laying out a clear and detailed dress code.

 

As for the dancing, it too should be spelled out clearly. If the chaperones are that concerned with specific dancing and dress, I'm wondering why they let their children attend - and why they are there. There's no video of her dancing, but if it was too overly provocative, then have a female chaperone ask her to tone it down some. Don't send the poor girl home.

 

I saw many local high school couples having dinner on their prom night. The dresses were lovely, but far more "sexy" than the one of the homeschooled girl.

Absolulely! I actually thought that dress was completely sedate compared with some I saw this year.

We made the mistake of going to the local Olive Garden recently and when we entered my dd4 was ecstatic:

"Mommy, look, it's PRINCESS night at Olive Garden! Are they real princesses? Do you have a tiara? Why not? Is that boy your prince? You should not marry a boy you just met! ( thank you Frozen!)...and on and on...

Until the very loud Mommy, that girl forgot her top! Look her bOOKs are out and she must be COLD! She needs a cape!"

Cue every person in the waiting area to scope out the poor mortified girl:(

 

We ate at Freebirds😳

[Heather in Neverland]

Interesting. Usually, long before now on this board, someone would say, "I have a feeling there's more to the story than what we're reading" in this type of situation (quoting a news story that contains "outrageous" claims). I'd love to hear the WHOLE story. I have a feeling there's more to the story than what we're reading.

I agree.

 

Also, and I know this will be unpopular, but if this was a homeschool prom, it is a private event run by a private organization which has the right to make up their own rules, right?

 

If it were a prom for a public school...things get dicey...taxpayer dollars and all that. And while I deplore the "you are making men stumble with your sinful curvy figure" bit, I am a big fan of freedom of association. I'm a big fan of freedoms in general.

 

What they did was not cool but did they have the right to do it? That's the real question for me.

[Mrs Mungo]

They had rules. Her dress was within their rules. Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean you're never a jerk if you are exercising that right. She followed the rules. They made a strategic error in deciding upon their rules. They should have lived with it and adjusted for next year instead of kicking her out. Kicking her out when she followed the rules makes them look like jerks.

[FaithManor]

I hate the argument that girls/women have to dress so as not to "tempt" boys/men or lead them to "impure" thoughts, etc.

 

Even if I put the biggest bucket on the biggest tractor I have, it is still not enough to move that big a pile of bull flop.

 

I would much rather my son see people how they will dress. Yes, some people have a taste for some very skimpy clothing. It is a teachable moment when we come across those people. We do people no favours by enabling them. Men are not so damn precious that they can't control their own sexuality. MOST men, the enormously VAST majority of men manage to do that every single day of their lives without the influence of the bizarreness that is the "patriarchal movement." Insinuating otherwise is an insult to millions of very good men everywhere.

I liked this, but that is not good enough! Here, here!!! Bravissimo!!!

 

Exactly this!

 

If men and boys were so primitive that they spent all their time fantasizing about females and sex, I'm pretty certain we wouldn't have telescopes, calculus, roads and bridges, cars, nuclear chemistry, and space shuttles. I mean give.me.a.break! Puuuuuleeeeeeeze!

 

Good men and decent boys ABOUND! God help us if this were not so.

 

It's all about subjugating women and making them inferior, second rate, and less trust worthy.

[Donna]

That is disgusting.

 

I read this as an update of sorts (re:the race issue) http://www.hannahettinger.com/an-update-on-clare/

 

Does anyone else find it tacky that they have something on that post telling people where they can donate to help the girl go to college? Seriously? What do her college aspirations have to do with a homeschool prom?

[FaithManor]

Oh, and having been on the receiving end of extreme patriarchy as a teen, I can tell you that the movement absolutely does encourage perviness in men, and if you are unfortunate enough to be attractive by the culture's standards then upon puberty you are automatically a whore, trollop, harlot, slut, tease, sin maker, and Jezebel. Having been called all of these while wearing a skirt 2 inches below my knees, a turtleneck, and wearing no make-up, hair in pony tail, I can tell you that girls can't win and the males in the cult are encouraged to think pervy and take no personal responsibility. The sexual harassment is staggering!

 

So even if it was an "inclusive" prom, if the organizers are personally associated with certain patriarchial mindsets, I would fully expect the attractive girls, along with any of the bustier ones, to be treated with scorn.

 

Regardless of whether or not we have heard the other side's version, the bottom line is that they held an inclusive event, not specifically "christian" which in and of itself doesn't mean much when you consider the array of beliefs and practices this term encompasses, and spelled out a dress code which the girl met. They didn't have to like it, but they did have a responsibility to shut up and not discriminate. I doubt that she's lying about the dancing not having begun yet because in this era of cell phones and constant video taping, someone could easily prove she's lying. No one posted any comments to the contrary. I sway to music, most people I know sway to music. It's a natural bodily reaction to rhythm and in particular, anything played in 4/4 time. I can easily see Mr.s D, if she is a patriarchial raised female, taking offense to ANY swaying on the part of an attractive female and especially if her husband or son is in the crowd because she's been trained to believe they would instantly start playing a porn scene in their heads if they looked at her and of course,that is her fault for not controlling her own DNA better.

 

I doubt that there is anything the organizers could say at this point that would make me see them in a better light. Wrong is wrong, and they need to apologize and refund the money pronto. Next year, they can have a non inclusive prom with an extreme conservative dress code if that is what they want. They can measure busts and ban certain girls, or have an attractiveness line up and bar the "temptresses" if that is what they want just so long is they are honest about their intent and advertise those intentions BEFORE anyone buys a ticket.

[kroe1]

Why did not the girl post a photo from the front? From the side, the dress does look low cut, but hard to tell. I see no harm in telling teens to keep their breasts inside their clothes, the same with butt cheeks and upper thighs. Can we not teach women they are beautiful without having to show breasts and buttocks?

 

While I see the points of all those here who say letting it all hang out is acceptable and not a deterrent to the male population, there is still at least some of us who feel it is just plain slutty. My first impression of cleavage is the poor woman must not have any intelligence or lives in a trailer. Call it an unfair generalization or whatever, but the first impression is real. Time has not changed it, nor has hearing the endless chatter if nakedness is a woman's prerogative.

 

My own DD13, and even me at a very advanced maternal age, has a knock out body. So it is not a jealousy issue or a lack of having the body that would look great in skanky clothes. We just feel the way we feel.

 

My thoughts for this girl, irrespective of her dress, was it was not her party. She has to abide by the rules of someone else whether she agrees with it or not. Next time she needs to organize the prom herself.

[DawnM]

I think we are missing a large chunk of the story.  I would like to hear the other side.  Are they exaggerating?  Did the men actually say/do that or was that her perceived idea?  Was there more to the dress code than she is sharing that she violated?  Has she had this "F- You" attitude from day one and likes to push the boundaries and they had just had enough?

 

I can tell you right now that we have a HS family we are dealing with who like to defy almost all the rules and then go tell people we are discriminating against only them and then tell half the story to make themselves look good and our HS group look like horrible people.  

 

My experiences leave me to not believe anything told to me from only one perspective.

[bettyandbob]

 

My thoughts for this girl, irrespective of her dress, was it was not her party. She has to abide by the rules of someone else whether she agrees with it or not. Next time she needs to organize the prom herself.

Did you read the articles? The dress met the listed requirements the group organizers published before the event.

 

There was a photo from the front with her date. The dress did not appear to be revealing cleavage. But more importantly, the girl followed their rules and she was still asked to leave.

[unsinkable]

Some dresses look completely fine, as long as you don't move.

 

If her panties were showing when she lifted her arms up (which could happen, based on the pictures) then what?

 

Is the dress still fine? BC it met the letter of law?

[regentrude]

My first impression of cleavage is the poor woman must not have any intelligence or lives in a trailer.

 

Wow.

[GailV]

Does anyone else find it tacky that they have something on that post telling people where they can donate to help the girl go to college? Seriously? What do her college aspirations have to do with a homeschool prom?

 

At this point places like Jezebel and Gawker have picked up the story and are telling it in a way to promote their own agendas (which is, to a great extent, basic click bait).  Heady stuff for a high school kid to be the focus of so much attention and righteous indignation supposedly on her account.

 

I enjoy the discussion we're having here, which has thoughtful comments on rape culture and patriarchy, by the way.  I think that's a great offshoot of the incident.  But the entire way these things blow up on the internet is both fascinating and disturbing.  

 

Why do so many of the websites make a big deal of the fact that she bought the dress with her own money?  I mean, obviously it's supposed to give things the "proper" emotional spin, but it's fairly silly.

 

It's starting to remind me of the woman who claimed she and her young son were accosted in Walmart while the boy was wearing a pink bow -- she wrote a blog post about it, it went viral, then the story started to unravel ....

[T'smom]

 

While I see the points of all those here who say letting it all hang out is acceptable and not a deterrent to the male population, there is still at least some of us who feel it is just plain slutty. My first impression of cleavage is the poor woman must not have any intelligence or lives in a trailer. Call it an unfair generalization or whatever, but the first impression is real. Time has not changed it, nor has hearing the endless chatter if nakedness is a woman's prerogative.

 

This comment says more about the person making it than it does about the people they are judging.

[Laura Corin]

My first impression of cleavage is the poor woman must not have any intelligence or lives in a trailer. 

 

I'm glad you won't be coming to my son's school leaving prizegiving and ball next month - all that intelligence and solid middle class background would be just too confusing.

 

L

[Lisa R.]

From what I've read while poking around, another girl was also asked to leave, so this girl was NOT singled out.  And some have said the girl who wrote the article was rather belligerent about the entire thing, which possibly escalated everything.  

 

Several interracial couples were in attendance, so that wasn't an issue.

 

The dads were up above the group because the event was attended by 500 kids -- they had some chaperones above and some on the dance floor so they could better keep track of what was going on.  So it wasn't like a group of guys said, "Oh, hey, I've got an idea -- we can optimize our leering if we go up here!"

 

Apparently part of the problem was that when she raised her arms the dress went up to undie- flashing territory.  But, hey, that's what happens with short dresses -- make the dress code different if you have a problem with that.

Well, now, this could be the other side of the story. Again, at the dances we helped at, organizers learned that chaperones needed to wander in and out of the middle of the dance floor as the kids who misbehaved tended to go in the middle of the dance floor in order to act inappropriately out of the eyes of the chaperones that watched from the sidelines. Watching from a birds-eye-view, as was done in this dance, is another likely effective way to supervise. 

 

Also, this girl's dress, while long enough according to guidelines, could've become way too short when she raised her arms. The dress looks tastefully fitted and could've raised into dangerous territory while she was lifting her arms as Gail suggests. 

 

Again, patriarchy is a hot button issue now. We can blame many, many things on it. Can we blame this dance scenario on it? Hard to say without hearing the other side. 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

My first impression of cleavage is the poor woman must not have any intelligence or lives in a trailer. Call it an unfair generalization or whatever, but the first impression is real.

Well, okay then.

 

I think I need some coffee this morning.

[BrookValley.]

This comment says more about the person making it than it does about the people they are judging.

 

:iagree:

[Elisabet1]

On one hand, sure, it would be upsetting if a girl actually did follow the rules and codes and got kicked out. BUT, we have not heard the other side, and based on what the girl actually said...referring to herself as "bad ass," I suspect that there is a lot more to the story than she is sharing. I am going to reserve judgement on this one.

[BrookValley.]

While I see the points of all those here who say letting it all hang out is acceptable and not a deterrent to the male population, there is still at least some of us who feel it is just plain slutty. My first impression of cleavage is the poor woman must not have any intelligence or lives in a trailer. Call it an unfair generalization or whatever, but the first impression is real. Time has not changed it, nor has hearing the endless chatter if nakedness is a woman's prerogative.

 

 

 

And women who may have a less than average IQ or live in trailers do not deserve respect because....??  Care to fill in that blank?  

[Elisabet1]

My guess is that if a guy showed up and "let it all hang out" then the girls would be complaining. But it would be extremely rare for a guy to do that. If a young woman is letting things hang out and show, she is doing it for attention. Whatever you wear generally says what kind of attention you want. If she was letting it all hang out, and then saying she was a "bad ass" then I suspect what she did was very intentional, not some innocent mistake. I am guessing she was engaging in provocative behavior too, based on what she said about HOW she was hanging out...claiming that is just what teen girls do.

 

The prom just needs to re-write the code to exclude this kind of behavior. Out local home school prom makes it clear that dressing like this is not allowed.

[Hikin' Mama]

CC ahead. Don't read if you'll be offended.

 

I'm just thankful that the Jesus I serve is more loving than some of the people who proclaim to be His followers. And that includes myself sometimes.

[Rebel Yell]

Absolulely! I actually thought that dress was completely sedate compared with some I saw this year.

We made the mistake of going to the local Olive Garden recently and when we entered my dd4 was ecstatic:

"Mommy, look, it's PRINCESS night at Olive Garden! Are they real princesses? Do you have a tiara? Why not? Is that boy your prince? You should not marry a boy you just met! ( thank you Frozen!)...and on and on...

Until the very loud Mommy, that girl forgot her top! Look her bOOKs are out and she must be COLD! She needs a cape!"

Cue every person in the waiting area to scope out the poor mortified girl:(

 

We ate at Freebirds😳

 

You know what I think is so sweet?  Your little girl wasn't saying "Eeeew Mommy look at that tramp!  QUICK!  Throw a tablecloth over Daddy & Brother's head so they don't sear their conscience with visions of this foul temptress!"  No- your little girl thought nothing more than compassion for the poor Princess who forgot her top and must be cold.

 

WAY TO GO, KERILEANNE99! :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: