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Can Miquon really be used by itself for K?


AimeeM
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DS isn't feeling the writing heavy CLE. I could just scribe for him, but when I do that, he flies through it.

I have Miquon. I'm trying to figure out how to best teach it (with the Education Unboxed videos). When I google, though, I'm reading mixed reviews - many, if not most, seem to believe that Miquon is only supplemental. I've been told here, though, that I could easily use it as my core for kindergarten.

 

Thoughts?

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Well I certainly think so. I used it as one of my ds's main math until halfway through third grade, when we finished it.

 

I think it does benefit from something for drill being added (whether it's games or just drill worksheets) and something for word problems. For a K'er I don't think either of those are necessary yet, but adding a few games like Going to the Dump especially would be maybe good.

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Yes, you could. That's what it was designed for. DS did the first two books in K, but they didn't take all year. You could do a third Miquon book, but I decided to do some Singapore also and will go back to Miquon during 1st grade.

 

What do you want to do after K, though? You could go all the way through Miquon, or back to CLE, or switch to something else.

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Yes, you could. That's what it was designed for. DS did the first two books in K, but they didn't take all year. You could do a third Miquon book, but I decided to do some Singapore also and will go back to Miquon during 1st grade.

 

What do you want to do after K, though? You could go all the way through Miquon, or back to CLE, or switch to something else.

 

I suppose what I do after K would be determined based on how much he retains from Miquon in K. If he retains well, with some additional drill (I can use the CLE I have on hand for that), I would just finish Miquon.

I'm not sure where I would go after Miquon. CLE or Horizons would be a bit of a bummer after a program like Miquon, but I'm not sure going all the way through Miquon would ready him for something like Beast Academy, kwim?

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Well I certainly think so. I used it as one of my ds's main math until halfway through third grade, when we finished it.

 

I think it does benefit from something for drill being added (whether it's games or just drill worksheets) and something for word problems. For a K'er I don't think either of those are necessary yet, but adding a few games like Going to the Dump especially would be maybe good.

 

What program did you jump into after Miquon?

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What program did you jump into after Miquon?

 

Beast Academy.

 

ETA: And he's thriving.  He's my more mathy kid.  I credit that about 50% to something inherent to him and 50% to Miquon, which I think taught him to think.  He is weaker on facts recall...  but I think that's mostly just him - he's rotten at vocabulary and things like that and good at the big picture across the board.  So Miquon played to his strengths, but it also turned him into a confident math kid and a kid who can really think about math.  The word problems were something we did through Primary Challenge Math and that worked as a supplement for him.  So anyone who says Miquon isn't a complete program or that it's not rigorous enough to lead to Beast Academy is a big silly in my mind.  I'm sure for some kids it's not the best program, but for the right kid, absolutely enough, especially with some very small supplements.

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Reading Farrar's comment about Go to the Dump reminds me that in addition to that game, my dd loves the "What's in the Box" game from Ed. Unboxed.

 

I have Ed Unboxed up right now in another tab, lol.

Do you watch the vids with your kiddo? Before and then implement on your own?

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Did it prepare him well for Beast?

Is Beast supplemental or a full program?

 

Oops, we were simul-posting as I was adding an ETA (cause I knew you were going to ask that!)

 

As for Beast, yep, I also think it's a full program.  I know many are using it as a supplement, but I think a lot of that is simply because they know they're going to run out of books.  If a child was able to go into it with the 3rd-5th grade series finished (or even the 2nd as well) I think there would be less people doing that and more using it mostly on its own.  As with anything, we supplement by reading living math books (like the Murderous Maths series now) and doing fun mathy projects or watching Vi Hart videos and things like that.  But Beast is definitely fine on its own.

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Oops, we were simul-posting as I was adding an ETA (cause I knew you were going to ask that!)

 

As for Beast, yep, I also think it's a full program.  I know many are using it as a supplement, but I think a lot of that is simply because they know they're going to run out of books.  If a child was able to go into it with the 3rd-5th grade series finished (or even the 2nd as well) I think there would be less people doing that and more using it mostly on its own.  As with anything, we supplement by reading living math books (like the Murderous Maths series now) and doing fun mathy projects or watching Vi Hart videos and things like that.  But Beast is definitely fine on its own.

 

The timeline of releases is what makes me nervous. I believe they are doing grade 5 next, which means grade 2 wouldn't be done by the time we may need it (he places in grade 1 in most math programs, now, with the caveat that I have to write his answers for him). If we held off on Beast until grade 3 math, though, we could run through the whole series. I think Miquon will force him to slow down a bit, on one hand, but on the other hand there isn't much "work" in Miquon, so to slow him down I'll need to add some things.

 

Is there a thread for best math games and living books?

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Oh, and I'll add...  I think a lot of people use Miquon as a supplement instead of a main program for a few reasons, none of which need to apply for all people...

* they feel it's weird and they're uncomfortable using something so "weird" by itself

* it genuinely does have a different scope and sequence so anyone who is unsure that they're going to be homeschooling all the way may feel they need to do something traditional with it

* they know they want to do another program and don't want to have to stop Miquon in 2nd or 3rd grade to move to something else

* they see a need for more practice than Miquon provides

 

Those are all fine reasons...  but except for the final one, none of them are negatives about Miquon's comprehensiveness if it works for you.  And the last one, to me, is a misunderstanding of how to use the program - more people should be making their own lab sheets, something the program encourages.

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The timeline of releases is what makes me nervous. I believe they are doing grade 5 next, which means grade 2 wouldn't be done by the time we may need it (he places in grade 1 in most math programs, now, with the caveat that I have to write his answers for him). If we held off on Beast until grade 3 math, though, we could run through the whole series. I think Miquon will force him to slow down a bit, on one hand, but on the other hand there isn't much "work" in Miquon, so to slow him down I'll need to add some things.

 

Is there a thread for best math games and living books?

 

I was initially focused on that as well.  And since we likely won't be able to finish fourth grade with it...  In fact, I know we won't as we'll start 4B very soon and it will be at least 6 months before the next book...  it is a sad, annoying thought for us.  On the other hand, Beast is working for him.  And is a great program.  So...  I have focused more on using what is the right resource for him for the moment than on worrying about release times.  Our plan is to bridge with a variety of resources (we've already started doing some things to make Beast last longer) and then start Jousting Armadillos in about a year or so.

 

I think Miquon, Primary Challenge Math, lots of games and books is plenty rich for at least a year or two.  Maybe a little more.  I think a kid could easily go right into BA 3 after Miquon, so no need to get grade 2.

 

For living math books, look at the book lists on Livingmath.net.

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Oh, and I'll add...  I think a lot of people use Miquon as a supplement instead of a main program for a few reasons, none of which need to apply for all people...

* they feel it's weird and they're uncomfortable using something so "weird" by itself

* it genuinely does have a different scope and sequence so anyone who is unsure that they're going to be homeschooling all the way may feel they need to do something traditional with it

* they know they want to do another program and don't want to have to stop Miquon in 2nd or 3rd grade to move to something else

* they see a need for more practice than Miquon provides

 

Those are all fine reasons...  but except for the final one, none of them are negatives about Miquon's comprehensiveness if it works for you.  And the last one, to me, is a misunderstanding of how to use the program - more people should be making their own lab sheets, something the program encourages.

The last *reason* is actually a perk for me. The review in CLE is one thing that is dragging my son DOWN. He doesn't need the review, at this stage, and if he hits a place in Miquon where he does need review, I can add to it.

 

We AREN'T sure if he'll homeschool all the way through, but he wouldn't have the option of Catholic school until after grade 3, which means he would have a year or so under his belt of a more "traditional" program at that point, regardless.

 

I will admit that part of my hesitation is that I do NOT feel confident teaching Miquon. I have the annotations, the teacher's notes, and the first grade diary, with the orange book - and I'm still nervous.

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I was initially focused on that as well.  And since we likely won't be able to finish fourth grade with it...  In fact, I know we won't as we'll start 4B very soon and it will be at least 6 months before the next book...  it is a sad, annoying thought for us.  On the other hand, Beast is working for him.  And is a great program.  So...  I have focused more on using what is the right resource for him for the moment than on worrying about release times.  Our plan is to bridge with a variety of resources (we've already started doing some things to make Beast last longer) and then start Jousting Armadillos in about a year or so.

 

I think Miquon, Primary Challenge Math, lots of games and books is plenty rich for at least a year or two.  Maybe a little more.  I think a kid could easily go right into BA 3 after Miquon, so no need to get grade 2.

 

For living math books, look at the book lists on Livingmath.net.

 

Oh - I thought Primary Challenge Math was for older kids; I didn't realize it could be used for younger kiddos! Neat!

 

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Oh - I thought Primary Challenge Math was for older kids; I didn't realize it could be used for younger kiddos! Neat!

 

 

For bright math kids, I think first grade is fine to start it and do the lowest level questions at the least.  It has different levels of questions, which also makes it good for families of different ages.

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DS1 did several of the Miquon books, just them, before we added Singapore in 2nd grade. We alternated the two for a while, but then he really started to prefer Singapore, so we stopped with Miquon. But I think you could easily use it on its own for K. Maybe add some sort of drill or games for fact practice.

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The last *reason* is actually a perk for me. The review in CLE is one thing that is dragging my son DOWN. He doesn't need the review, at this stage, and if he hits a place in Miquon where he does need review, I can add to it.

 

We AREN'T sure if he'll homeschool all the way through, but he wouldn't have the option of Catholic school until after grade 3, which means he would have a year or so under his belt of a more "traditional" program at that point, regardless.

 

I will admit that part of my hesitation is that I do NOT feel confident teaching Miquon. I have the annotations, the teacher's notes, and the first grade diary, with the orange book - and I'm still nervous.

 

I haven't used Miquon yet, however we use CLE math.  We love it.  I am now to the point that sometimes all the extra review isn't needed.  In that case I cross out problems and reduce my ds workload.  I also will have my ds do some answers orally.  It goes faster doing math orally and I get a clear picture of the concepts he has fully mastered.   I have been on the fence with Miquon since I too am not comfortable teaching it.  I think I will give it a go in combination with CLE this fall.

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Oh, and I'll add...  I think a lot of people use Miquon as a supplement instead of a main program for a few reasons, none of which need to apply for all people...

* they feel it's weird and they're uncomfortable using something so "weird" by itself

* it genuinely does have a different scope and sequence so anyone who is unsure that they're going to be homeschooling all the way may feel they need to do something traditional with it

* they know they want to do another program and don't want to have to stop Miquon in 2nd or 3rd grade to move to something else

* they see a need for more practice than Miquon provides

 

Those are all fine reasons...  but except for the final one, none of them are negatives about Miquon's comprehensiveness if it works for you.  And the last one, to me, is a misunderstanding of how to use the program - more people should be making their own lab sheets, something the program encourages.

 

Either the teacher's guide or 1st grade diary mentions having multiple copies of the sheets and letting kids self select which ones to do. So, your kids could do the sheets multiple times. We haven't done this since it is easier for me to just make up new sheets than copy the existing ones. I think this is a huge overlooked benefit of the program. The books are so simple that my colored pencil on copy paper sheets look just as "real". This allows me to add in however much practice is needed. If I see DS having an issue with a concept, I can usually finish another simpler or just different sheet of problems before he finishs his sheet. Then we can either follow up with the new sheet or set it aside to return to later.

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I will admit that part of my hesitation is that I do NOT feel confident teaching Miquon. I have the annotations, the teacher's notes, and the first grade diary, with the orange book - and I'm still nervous.

I didn't start with Miquon until 2nd grade for the same reasons.

You do get comfortable with it pretty quickly.

We also skipped around through all 6 books, sometimes following a strand through the books.

 

I think Miquon is weak on word problems.

Love Singapore for those!

Miquon is great for division as a binary operation (divide two numbers, get one number...NOT one number and a remainder).

 

Go ahead and give it a try and see what you think.

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I have been giving this a lot of thought lately. We did Miquon orange and red for K this year, and have recently started on blue. Ds really enjoys it. Because of advice from the forum, I tried adding in Singapore over the last few months. I really like it, but ds HATES it. It seems to be killing his interest in math. We are setting it aside for now and continuing with Miquon. We also have MM, which he prefers over Singapore, but I just don't think it is the way to go for us. Adding in an entire second math program seems to be overkill and really takes a lot of time that used to be spent doing fun math.

 

Before I tried to incorporate Singapore, we regularly played math games and read living math books. We are going to return to that casual approach and focus on the fun that math can be. At these early ages I think a good attitude and positive perception about math is critical.

 

Here are our favourite math activities:

- Knockout/Muggins (game we got at Rainbow Resource)

- Other Math Games: Quirkle, Blokus, Tens, Sequence Dice, Math Dice Jr.

- Tangrams (Grandfather Tang's Story is a nice book to go with the tangrams)

- several decks of playing cards to play math war style games

- Peggy Kaye's Games for Math book

- Family Math book

- "living math" books listed at livingmath.net

- TOPS Get a Grip

 

On the ipad ds loves:

- Math Bingo (this one: https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/math-bingo/id371338715?mt=8)

- DragonBox 5+ (https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/dragonbox-algebra-5+/id522069155?mt=8)

- Math evolve

- Hungry fish

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I'm trying to imagine how Miquon would *not* be enough for a 5yo child. o_0 What more does he need to know?

 

IMHO, the only thing that might be helpful to add to Miquon *through third grade,* which are the grade levels it's intended to be used for, would be something to help the dc memorize basic math facts, such as Calculadders.

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Yep, Miquon is plenty! It's my very favorite early math curriculum. My children loved & thrived on it, and if I had another little one to teach, I'd use it all over again.

 

We approached it as "math is so much fun; let's see what we can discover today"... I tried to stay out of their way & do as little direct teaching as possible. I just suggested ideas and led them when they were stuck. We worked out of one book at a time, but I let them choose their worksheets within that book within reason. Make sure you read the First Grade Diary before you get started, and then take a look at the Lab Annotations for daily ideas.

 

After Miquon, I transitioned to Singapore texts, especially for the word problems. These days, I would also look at Beast Academy as a follow up.

 

I did use Calculadders on the side to firm up math facts with one of my kids.

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I will admit that part of my hesitation is that I do NOT feel confident teaching Miquon. I have the annotations, the teacher's notes, and the first grade diary, with the orange book - and I'm still nervous.

 

I was totally sold on Miquon, and I still have some days that I am not sure the "method" will actually work. Then it does. Sometimes, I am sure my son is lost, and a couple of days later when we come back to something, he's using it really well. He really has only one major hiccup, and that's with having an equation on each side of the = sign. Not sure why since he can compose those sorts of problems and does so for fun.

 

We do add CWP from Singapore for word problem practice, but that is more personal preference than anything else.

 

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We did Miquon all the way through.  Toward the end we started on xtramath to get those basic facts fluent.  We also add in Life of Fred but that that's just because we like him so much.  I credit Miquon with the very strong bases my DC have in mathematics.  It is a very strong programme if you apply it appropriately.

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At the moment I'm using CSMP with Miquon, but that's because my dd has a learning problem and no one knows how to teach maths to kids with that problem. I'm taking the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" approach and so far, so good. I'm getting to wonder what is so radical about Miquon though. We've only been using it a few months so I haven't discovered anything outlandish yet!

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What is your goal for kindergarten math? Maybe articulate that for starters.

 

My goal for kindergarten math, for all kindergarten subjects for that matter, is to promote a love of the subject. I don't really care what that looks like...I don't know if you're familiar with the adage "Solid food under one is just for fun?" Well, for me "Math before first grade is just for fun." I do feel I should do something since this is such a terrifically curious age, but I don't really feel anxiety about *what* we do. Not even for an accelerated kiddo. Interest-led activities are sufficient, so anything curriculum-based is just gravy. (DD5 is ramping up her progress through Singapore 1A now and I would not be surprised if she's at or even through 1B by the time we start kindergarten officially. We'd totally be doing Miquon if I didn't cringe at the thought of adding yet another math program to this household...it's not out of the question though, and we do have a double set of c-rods that we use for playing with Education Unboxed videos.)

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At the moment I'm using CSMP with Miquon, but that's because my dd has a learning problem and no one knows how to teach maths to kids with that problem. I'm taking the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" approach and so far, so good. I'm getting to wonder what is so radical about Miquon though. We've only been using it a few months so I haven't discovered anything outlandish yet!

 

Yeah, I sort of feel the same way.  I mean, the look is simple and there are a few things that I go, huh, about, but that's true in every math program I've used.  To me, while I really liked it, MEP was the one that was really hard to understand.  But I just accept that many other people think Miquon is "weird."  I do think the scope and sequence and the method where you can either follow the book or the thread or let the child just pick and choose is a little different, but the way the math is presented seems mostly just good and simple to me.

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Well I certainly think so. I used it as one of my ds's main math until halfway through third grade, when we finished it.

 

I think it does benefit from something for drill being added (whether it's games or just drill worksheets) and something for word problems. For a K'er I don't think either of those are necessary yet, but adding a few games like Going to the Dump especially would be maybe good.

We did the exact same thing for my older dd, and I am repeating it for middle dd. Older dd went from Miquon right into Beast Academy and math is her favorite subject. Miquon gave her such a great way to think about math. I really love the program. I have added Xtramath for my middle dd, which is free, online, and only takes 3-5 minutes per day.

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What is your goal for kindergarten math? Maybe articulate that for starters.

 

My goal for kindergarten math, for all kindergarten subjects for that matter, is to promote a love of the subject. I don't really care what that looks like...I don't know if you're familiar with the adage "Solid food under one is just for fun?" Well, for me "Math before first grade is just for fun." I do feel I should do something since this is such a terrifically curious age, but I don't really feel anxiety about *what* we do. Not even for an accelerated kiddo. Interest-led activities are sufficient, so anything curriculum-based is just gravy. (DD5 is ramping up her progress through Singapore 1A now and I would not be surprised if she's at or even through 1B by the time we start kindergarten officially. We'd totally be doing Miquon if I didn't cringe at the thought of adding yet another math program to this household...it's not out of the question though, and we do have a double set of c-rods that we use for playing with Education Unboxed videos.)

 

We aren't really interest led folks - we fall more into the school at home crowd :)

Our goals for kindergarten math are to cover the basic kindergarten skills. Since he seems to have mastered much of that already, my current goal is to find a math program that both of us can enjoy. I really like the idea of Miquon with living math books and games. Now, the box checker in me likes the idea of continuing with CLE, lol.

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For people starting in K, Miquon is advertised as a grade 1-3 program. I think it is a great option to use from the beginning, but this may explain the some of the desire for more "practice". If you start Miquon in K and plug straight through you start hitting the multiplication table in Blue and all the special topics in Green. That is quite advanced for first grade. Now if you more closely follow the spirit of the program you could use Orange and parts of Red in K and add in lots of games and living math. Then you could do the rest of Red and all of Blue and lots more living math in 1st. Sometimes concepts just need more time to gel. Or, you could follow the strands your kids are ready for. The program is amazingly flexible depending on your kids progress and your goals. Either way you will exceed grade level norms.

 

DS7 has used Miquon orange, red, blue, and parts of green and MEP1 and almost all of MEP2(and a smattering of CSMP special topics). Both of these programs have quirky scopes and sequences. So far Miquon has covered the same core material at the same rate. I closely reviewed the entire k-3 series for MEP and Singapore a year or so ago and by the end of 3rd they had covered essentially the same material. Since Miquon is matched up with MEP it should be comparable to Singapore(excluding word problems). Either way you should be prepared for BA3 or whatever program you want to transition into. We will finish MEP3 and the entire Miquon series at the same time.

 

PS. We use Miquon and MEP because DS *really* needs variety. Both programs are fabulous and complete. It is a kid temperament issue for us not an educational issue.

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Definitely.  We are doing Miquon only (and I started the orange book at the beginning of 1st grade) and I plan to use miquon only until we're done w/ the series.  I know several women who homeschooled mathy children (now scientists and/or math majors) who used Miquon alone at the beginning and to no ill effect. The only supplement I use to it is sometimes Life of Fred (I don't like it, my son does) and a teensy bit of drill.  Very teensy, at this point.

 

I kind of think: less is more, especially now.  I don't need to complicate my life.  I envision moving into Singapore and/or Beast stuff later. 

 

I really think my child 'gets' math.  And it more like a game than a chore, which I appreciate.

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I love the combination of Miquon with Right Start (definitely not writing heavy, but it is expensive).  I start with Miquon first in pre-K or K depending on the child and add in Right Start when they are about halfway through Orange.  Honestly, I have thought about just using Miquon for K and starting Right Start B in 1st along with Miquon.  I think it would even be good to use Miquon exclusively.  I cannot believe the math that my 2nd grader can do from using Miquon.  It is an amazing program.

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We aren't really interest led folks - we fall more into the school at home crowd :)

Our goals for kindergarten math are to cover the basic kindergarten skills. Since he seems to have mastered much of that already, my current goal is to find a math program that both of us can enjoy. I really like the idea of Miquon with living math books and games. Now, the box checker in me likes the idea of continuing with CLE, lol.

 

Here's my suggestion as a fellow box checker: schedule certain math things to do each day of the week and check them off when they are done.  So Monday, Wednesday, and Friday could be Miquon days and Tuesday and Thursday could be living math and game days.  Just put Miquon, living math, and math games on the schedule, write in what you actually did that day (topic(s), book titles, and specific games that you played), and check it off when you are done.  Whether I'm using a program or not, this helps me a lot!

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