WTM Rhetoric and Great Books--is anyone doing this?

[amyco]

I was re-reading WTM (hello, old friend!), specifically the rhetoric and Great Books suggestions. 

 

Have you done this or are you following these suggestions?  What does that look like and how is it working for you?  I already own the Weston, Kane, and Corbett books.  My dd is coming home next year for her last two years of high school.  She has had logic.  Does anyone have suggestions for me on what to do?  Start with Weston's A Rulebook for Arguments and then just get as far as we can get in these books?  Does she really need to outline Weston, or could she just read it and start working through Kane as suggested?  She is a decent writer and can do the 5 paragraph type essay with aplomb (you know, formulating a thesis and finding supporting text evidence and putting it together coherently). 

 

And for the Great Books--I love the idea of combining history and literature.  Is anyone doing this using just the WTM methods?  How is it going for you?  What kind of papers are your students writing?  Do you find this is enough history study--i.e. do they get a fairly complete picture of the events/ideas?  She's had AP World History and AP Art History so has had a lot of history...but precious little literature.  :( 

 

Thank you so much for any suggestions...because she's had so much history but the English classes have jumped around, I am trying to decide which time period to start in...I am leaning toward a condensed version of the whole thing in two years. 

[Foucachon]

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[amyco]

Thanks for replying, Daniel.  I have seen that video recently.  He does have quite the collection. 

 

While I am sure it is a very good program, it is not what I am looking for right now.

 

Still hoping to hear from anyone using WTM for the Great Books...

 

 

[WTMCassandra]

I am doing a WTM-purist Great Books study, and while I aspire to having the children also do more formal rhetoric, in reality, it's hard to get to it because they are doing team policy debate. (It teaches many of the same skills . . . but still, I'm hoping to squeeze in some more formal rhetoric somewhere.)  

 

I do have the children write short persuasive essays on each major literary work they study, as well as two essays per chapter of Spielvogel. So it's not like they are not writing at all outside of debate briefs. (I also require writing in some other courses, such as worldview.)

 

I prepared course descriptions for all four years of the rhetoric-level literature/history Great Books study, with very specific works of literature (I didn't want TOO many titles, which is sooo easy to do!). If you want them, feel free to PM me.  We are near the end of Year 3, and the system is working well for us. 

[Dina in Oklahoma]

:lurk5:

[PeterPan]

...She's had AP World History and AP Art History so has had a lot of history...but precious little literature.  :(

 

Thank you so much for any suggestions...because she's had so much history but the English classes have jumped around, I am trying to decide which time period to start in...I am leaning toward a condensed version of the whole thing in two years. 

Given that you're trying to condense and that she has a strong history background, you might consider condensing *thematically* rather than chronologically.  For instance, have her pick 2-3 themes she'd like to follow for this coming year (women in literature, rights, food, whatever) and then create together GB lists from across time that hit those.  That way she'd have a sense in what direction her papers are going too.  WEM suggests such a study, so it's still in the spirit of things.  :)

[amyco]

Given that you're trying to condense and that she has a strong history background, you might consider condensing *thematically* rather than chronologically.  For instance, have her pick 2-3 themes she'd like to follow for this coming year (women in literature, rights, food, whatever) and then create together GB lists from across time that hit those.  That way she'd have a sense in what direction her papers are going too.  WEM suggests such a study, so it's still in the spirit of things.   :)

 

Oh, I like this!  I will have to think about it and discuss the possibilities with her.  I know she would really enjoy having some control over the direction her reading takes.  And clearly I need to review WEM again.  Thanks!

[angela in ohio]

I did a pretty pure WTM rhetoric and Great Books study with my oldest. Second prefers a competitive academic environment, so we made some compromises for her to take outside classes, so she isn't doing it, but my youngest will starting in a few years.

 

I have been nothing but pleased with the results for dd. She has an amazing knowledge of history, and her SAT, ACT, and SAT subject test English scores were awesome, she writes well, etc. The biggest thing, though, is that she has a great sense of perspective: placing current events and your life in the context of the Great Conversation instills such maturity.

 

I guess the first thing to consider is how your dd feels about reading and literature, what her skill level is in reading and writing, and what are your constraints as far as covering credits (does she need American Lit, Brit Lit, anything like that?)

[angela in ohio]

I do represent the course, and know I'm not supposed to publicize on here (only answer questions), so someone let me know if this is "stepping over the line." 

 

Okay, I'll say it. This was stepping over the line. It probably seems so extreme to me in this case  - beyond just the fact that it wasn't at all what the OP was asking for - because the OP was asking about the method in the book written by the woman who owns these boards. ;)

 

[brookspr]

I've only been homeschooling for a year and have recently read the WTM and the Well Educated Mind.  For my dd13 next year we will be doing history and literature together.  We will be using both of Susan Wise Bauer's History of the World Medieval and Renaissance books (1 each semester) along with a little of Speilvogel's World History.  I also have the full Excellence in Literature program, so I will be picking books that correspond to the history she is studying instead of going thru the program as written for each year.  We have been trying it out for the last two months and it has worked out well.  The Excellence in Lit book study is one month per book.  We haven't been spending one month on each history lesson, more like 2 weeks, but next year we will be going deeper into the Medieval and Renaissance periods, so I think it will work well.

 

For example, when she was studying ancient Rome and Greece (2 weeks each), she did the lit lesson on Julius Caesar.  Her last subject of the year is the early Medieval period so she is reading Sir Walter Scott's book, Ivanhoe.  Each month of lit study includes several written assignments, author studies, and time period studies.  We also discuss the book after she has read it.  This was motivated by many of the Circe forum posts and listening to many classical education podcasts lately :)  It's another reason we won't be covering many time periods in history, I listed to the "Multum Non Multa" podcast and really liked the much not many approach to learning.

 

In addition to the writing from the Excellence in Lit program, dd will be doing more IEW writing, finishing SWI-C.  We may also incorporate some Windows to the World lit/writing outside of the history lessons as she loves to read and write.  There will be a little grammar thrown in here and there as well.

 

Her plan is to work on history and literature three days a week for 3-4 hours a day and then do math and Latin the rest of the day.  The other two days she will focus on biology and do math, Latin and logic.

 

 

 

 

[amyco]

 

 This was motivated by many of the Circe forum posts and listening to many classical education podcasts lately :)  It's another reason we won't be covering many time periods in history, I listed to the "Multum Non Multa" podcast and really liked the much not many approach to learning.

 

 

Thanks for describing your plan--it sounds great!  I used to have the book Latin Centered Curriculum, but I didn't know there was a Multum Non Multa podcast.  Who does that?  And good for you for not going overboard with plans...it was probably one of my downfalls last time...this time around I feel very good not overscheduling her or trying to pack so much in.  Andrew Kern's teaching must be sinking in, finally. 

 

These responses are so helpful for me.

[Reefgazer]

The book "the Latin-Centered Curriculum" gives a great overview (right along with schedules and literature suggestions) for implementing a Latin-Centered curriculum.  It also has an entire chapter on how to "jump into the curriculum in the middle".  I don't have a child at that level yet, but I am currently reading the book and it's a quick read and very helpful.

[brookspr]

The Multum non Multa talk was by Christopher Perrin.  Here is a link to it on YouTube.

 

Multum non Multa - YouTube

[amyco]

The Multum non Multa talk was by Christopher Perrin.  Here is a link to it on YouTube.

 

Multum non Multa - YouTube

 

Thank you!