Jump to content

Menu

Jurgensen Geometry


Recommended Posts

Hello,

 

In looking over the various Geometry texts I really like Jurgensen a lot.  So I am considering using it next Fall as ds12's primary text.  I've already purchased the book and am looking to get the Solutions Manual ISBN-13: 9780395677667.  Has anyone who used Jurgensen also purchased the Solutions Key?  The reason I'm asking is that it is 6 years older than the student workbook.  Yet I could not find an answer key with the same publish date as the text.  If anyone has experience using Jurgensen I'd appreciate hearing from you.

 

Thanks,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Derek,

 

What's the difference between the Teacher's Edition & the Solution Key?  (We're planning on using Jurgensen in the fall, too, but through Wilson Hill.)

 

Thanks,

yvonne

 

Hi Yvonne,

 

I am also seriously considering Wilson Hill next Fall.  It looks like they have a good program, though 'very' new which gives me some pause for thought.  I have spoken with the instructor, Leslie Smith, about her Geometry course.  She recommended purchasing the solutions key which will help in grading the homework.  That will be the parent's job.  She will grade quizzes and tests.

 

I don't really know much about the teacher's edition except that its very expensive and harder to find.  But if its like most teacher's editions it would most likely have answers to the questions and not the fully worked out solutions.  That's where a solutions guide comes in.  I really like having them and do as well with our current program which is AoPS.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, no! It never occurred to me that the instructor would NOT be correcting/grading the student's work. Maybe I've been spoiled by Derek Owens. Oh, my. Having someone who really knows the subject checking my students' work, especially proofs, was the whole reason to use an online class for geometry. I'll have to follow up w/ the instructor.

 

Drat! I might be back to the drawing board.

 

Thank you so much for posting, Derek. That would have been an unpleasant surprise in the fall!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Derek,

 

Have you looked at AoPS geometry?  Why use Jurgensen over that?

 

Yes,

 

AoPS Geometry is supposedly one of their most difficult/challenging texts.  In addition I do not think I could do a good job grading those proofs.  So that is why I am outsourcing as well.  However neither Wilson Hill nor Jann in Texas who I am also considering grade the homework!  That said I have spoken with both about this and they are willing to help (some) if there is something which the parent and/or student are unsure of.  Leslie said she leaves time at the beginning of her class to go over homework problems.  So its not like you are totally on your own.  But yes, you are spoiled with Derek Owens in that regard.  ;)

 

With regards to going back to the drawing board I had originally thought about going the Derek Owens route.  But the reviews of his Geometry course seemed to be mixed with some having real problems with it.  Consequently I am exploring other options.  I think Jann's Geometry is not as proof intensive.  So maybe grading the proofs would not be as difficult.  But I'm torn because I'm not thrilled with the Holt Geometry text and the idea of proofs not being as central to the course.  Jurgensen seems like a much better text and presentation of the material overall.  Hmm.... decisions, decisions.  I may just suck it up and grade the homework with the help of the solutions key.  Then ask questions when I need too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kiddo used this text: 039577120X

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/039577120X/

 

and this solutions key: 0395677661

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/0395677661/

 

and on quick perusal I found that they lined up well despite being 2 years apart.

 

Kiddo worked with a private tutor though. He rarely consulted the key. I bought it because I had planned on working on it with him but I gave up after the initial chapters.

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kiddo used this text: 039577120X

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/039577120X/

 

and this solutions key: 0395677661

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/0395677661/

 

and on quick perusal I found that they lined up well despite being 2 years apart.

 

Kiddo worked with a private tutor though. He rarely consulted the key. I bought it because I had planned on working on it with him but I gave up after the initial chapters.

 

Thanks, Quark.  So did the tutor grade your son's homework? How about tests?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My son did it as a private student although the tutor also offers group classes. No grades, no tests. He is constantly offering feedback during classes so if there are glaring errors, the students become aware quite quickly. With private students, more so. He doesn't need to test a student he works with one on one and so closely. He can gauge how much a kid understands from the classes and homework alone because there is a lot of discussion and feedback. I like using him because he teaches with the same philosophy that I used with math when kiddo was younger. Students (group classes don't usually exceed 6 students) work with him side by side on the problems at the same time on individual whiteboard space, so if someone is stumbling it becomes evident very quickly. And he is so easygoing that the students are not afraid to ask questions.

 

We've worked with him for close to 4 years now...the continuity is another reason why he doesn't need to test my son. He can see it for himself year after year. We don't receive a grade or transcript after class...these are not important to us. I'm not sure if other parents have a grading arrangement with the tutor.

 

ETA: I must also add that with any outsourced class, I believe that it is important for the parent to keep tabs and keep communications going. I've had friends who decided not to use this tutor either because they wanted something more traditional or were not used to his teaching style or not able to monitor their student's progress closely etc. I make it a point to contact the tutor at least every 3 months for a detailed chat on how things are going. I discuss the work with my son almost every day.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am turning over math to my dh next year (finally). He is chair of the math dept. at a selective private boarding school, and a 25 year veteran teacher. They use the Jurgensen text for all their geometry classes. He gives it very positive reviews.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My son did it as a private student although the tutor also offers group classes. No grades, no tests. He is constantly offering feedback during classes so if there are glaring errors, the students become aware quite quickly. With private students, more so. He doesn't need to test a student he works with one on one and so closely. He can gauge how much a kid understands from the classes and homework alone because there is a lot of discussion and feedback. I like using him because he teaches with the same philosophy that I used with math when kiddo was younger. Students (group classes don't usually exceed 6 students) work with him side by side on the problems at the same time on individual whiteboard space, so if someone is stumbling it becomes evident very quickly. And he is so easygoing that the students are not afraid to ask questions.

 

We've worked with him for close to 4 years now...the continuity is another reason why he doesn't need to test my son. He can see it for himself year after year. We don't receive a grade or transcript after class...these are not important to us. I'm not sure if other parents have a grading arrangement with the tutor.

 

ETA: I must also add that with any outsourced class, I believe that it is important for the parent to keep tabs and keep communications going. I've had friends who decided not to use this tutor either because they wanted something more traditional or were not used to his teaching style or not able to monitor their student's progress closely etc. I make it a point to contact the tutor at least every 3 months for a detailed chat on how things are going. I discuss the work with my son almost every day.

 

Quark, It sounds like the tutor provides a lot of individualized attention which works out well for you and your son.  Unfortunately I think this route would be too cost prohibitive in our case compared to other options.  I have to always think in sets of threes.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am turning over math to my dh next year (finally). He is chair of the math dept. at a selective private boarding school, and a 25 year veteran teacher. They use the Jurgensen text for all their geometry classes. He gives it very positive reviews.

 

I can see why as it really is a nice textbook.  I just don't think I could teach it and thus am looking to outsource as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you considered Math Without Borders? The solutions are included with the home study companion: http://mathwithoutborders.com/?page_id=6

 

Yes, I did look at it.  But in the case of geometry I want more than pre-recorded video instruction whereas for Algebra I am fine with that.  I would like an instructor to be able to talk with my son about proofs and also review his work if/when he has specific questions or possibly just another approach from the book answer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a Yahoo group for the Math Without Borders, and the Instructor seems pretty responsive, but I understand what you mean.

 

I'm looking ahead there myself and may do something of a hybrid approach- Math Without Borders plus a college kid as a tutor. I've also considered doing Algebra 2 first, then looking at AoPS Geometry.

 

Good luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am also seriously considering Wilson Hill next Fall.  It looks like they have a good program, though 'very' new which gives me some pause for thought.  I have spoken with the instructor, Leslie Smith, about her Geometry course.  She recommended purchasing the solutions key which will help in grading the homework.  That will be the parent's job.  She will grade quizzes and tests.

 

Did she not give you the ISBN# for the solutions guide to go with their text?  You'd think that if they are expecting the parents to grade the homework and purchase the book, the least they could do is give you the necessary information to get the right book...

 

I am also starting to consider this course.  Dd has been loving AoPS Algebra and doing well going through the problem sets... but I just gave her a practice SAT math section just to see if I should bother having her do it in middle school, and she rather bombed it.  It seems like if she hasn't seen something in a while, she needs a nudge to remember what tools to use, or she at least has to think about it for longer than the test allows.  I think she needs something with more practice and review, while still being challenging and not repetitive and boring...  I've heard good things about Jurgensen, so...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Derek,

 

I followed up with the math lead at Wilson Hill, Anne Stublen, and my fears have been allayed. :)  My boys are going to go ahead w/ geometry at WHA. My ideal geometry class would be a 4 to 5 day a week, face-to-face local class using Jurgensen. I think the WHA class will be the next best thing. I'm not going to find a better text (for us) and I'm not going to find a more capable, experienced teacher than I think they'll have at WHA. Leslie has taught with the Jurgensen text before, and, in fact, that text is at the top of her list of favorite geometry texts.

 

The folks at WHA are very receptive to questions. Anne actually called me to discuss my concerns. I know you're already in touch with them, but if anyone else has questions or concerns about how the class will be taught, email them from the WHA site. There's nothing like going to the source to make sure you know what to expect and whether it will work for you.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Derek,

 

I followed up with the math lead at Wilson Hill, Anne Stublen, and my fears have been allayed. :)  My boys are going to go ahead w/ geometry at WHA. My ideal geometry class would be a 4 to 5 day a week, face-to-face local class using Jurgensen. I think the WHA class will be the next best thing. I'm not going to find a better text (for us) and I'm not going to find a more capable, experienced teacher than I think they'll have at WHA. Leslie has taught with the Jurgensen text before, and, in fact, that text is at the top of her list of favorite geometry texts.

 

The folks at WHA are very receptive to questions. Anne actually called me to discuss my concerns. I know you're already in touch with them, but if anyone else has questions or concerns about how the class will be taught, email them from the WHA site. There's nothing like going to the source to make sure you know what to expect and whether it will work for you.

 

I sent a contact request.  Wish they just had a phone #, but maybe they'll call me back. :)

 

Thanks for the additional info.  I think we could be headed in this direction...  Are the classes live?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Derek,

 

I followed up with the math lead at Wilson Hill, Anne Stublen, and my fears have been allayed. :)  My boys are going to go ahead w/ geometry at WHA. My ideal geometry class would be a 4 to 5 day a week, face-to-face local class using Jurgensen. I think the WHA class will be the next best thing. I'm not going to find a better text (for us) and I'm not going to find a more capable, experienced teacher than I think they'll have at WHA. Leslie has taught with the Jurgensen text before, and, in fact, that text is at the top of her list of favorite geometry texts.

 

The folks at WHA are very receptive to questions. Anne actually called me to discuss my concerns. I know you're already in touch with them, but if anyone else has questions or concerns about how the class will be taught, email them from the WHA site. There's nothing like going to the source to make sure you know what to expect and whether it will work for you.

 

Yvonne,

 

Thanks for following up with me.  Could you please describe a bit more how your fears have been allayed, more specifically with regards to grading the proofs?  I am still waffling myself and almost at the point of flipping a coin between WHA and Jann in TX.  Like you my ideal course would use Jurgensen.  But I'm just not sure I can do all that grading in any kind of effective way even with a solutions manual.  With Jann she offers tutoring in addition to her course.  So I'm still torn.  Argh.  :huh:

 

With regards to the Answer Key did you figure out which one to use?  I am almost sure it is this ISBN-13: 9780395677667.  Last time I checked with the teacher she said she was trying to confirm it with the publisher.  I did find them paired together on the publisher's website here which may be as good as it gets:

 http://forms.hmhco.com/virtual-catalog/publication/33cfd82c#116 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sent a contact request.  Wish they just had a phone #, but maybe they'll call me back. :)

 

Thanks for the additional info.  I think we could be headed in this direction...  Are the classes live?

 

I actually had to email twice before hearing back.  Once I got in touch with the teacher she was very responsive both over the phone and via email.

 

If you check the website there is a phone number at the top: 512-655-9421.  Strangely it not on their contact page.  But I think they are still refining their site: http://www.wilsonhillacademy.com/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did she not give you the ISBN# for the solutions guide to go with their text?  You'd think that if they are expecting the parents to grade the homework and purchase the book, the least they could do is give you the necessary information to get the right book...

 

I am also starting to consider this course.  Dd has been loving AoPS Algebra and doing well going through the problem sets... but I just gave her a practice SAT math section just to see if I should bother having her do it in middle school, and she rather bombed it.  It seems like if she hasn't seen something in a while, she needs a nudge to remember what tools to use, or she at least has to think about it for longer than the test allows.  I think she needs something with more practice and review, while still being challenging and not repetitive and boring...  I've heard good things about Jurgensen, so...

 

If there ever was a weakness of AoPS I think this may be it for some children.  I think it probably varies student to student.  But I've heard from other parents who feel their child needs more 'practice' after AoPS. I am finding this is the case for our son as well and so plan to do an Algebra 1 review this Summer after finishing AoPS Intro to Algebra (ch.1-14).  I am leaning toward using TabletClass because ds12 is already very familiar with its format.  But Foerster and Dolciani problems would be great supplementals as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If there ever was a weakness of AoPS I think this may be it for some children.  I think it probably varies student to student.  But I've heard from other parents who feel their child needs more 'practice' after AoPS. I am finding this is the case for our son as well and so plan to do an Algebra 1 review this Summer after finishing AoPS Intro to Algebra (ch.1-14).  I am leaning toward using TabletClass because ds12 is already very familiar with its format.  But Foerster and Dolciani problems would be great supplementals as well.

 

I have Foerster and used it with great success with my older dd.  I actually tried to switch this dd to it halfway through the year, or just supplement with it, but she said she liked AoPS so much more and refused to switch or even use it as a supplement...  She's already on Chapter 18 of the AoPS, I told her she can finish it, then she will definitely have to do some kind of review over the summer.  Since she balks at Foerster, maybe just doing Khan Academy (other dds have panned it, but wow are they all different kids...).  It needs to be systematic and quick.  She really does get the concepts, she just needs more overall review to consolidate the info so it's there to retrieve when she needs it - I think that's the big issue.  I think it's really good she saw she bombed the SAT questions as it gives me a lot of leverage to switch to something else...  (as much as I do love AoPS!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually had to email twice before hearing back.  Once I got in touch with the teacher she was very responsive both over the phone and via email.

 

If you check the website there is a phone number at the top: 512-655-9421.  Strangely it not on their contact page.  But I think they are still refining their site: http://www.wilsonhillacademy.com/

 

Thanks - I haven't heard back yet, so maybe I'll try that number. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I have Foerster and used it with great success with my older dd.  I actually tried to switch this dd to it halfway through the year, or just supplement with it, but she said she liked AoPS so much more and refused to switch or even use it as a supplement...  She's already on Chapter 18 of the AoPS, I told her she can finish it, then she will definitely have to do some kind of review over the summer.  Since she balks at Foerster, maybe just doing Khan Academy (other dds have panned it, but wow are they all different kids...).  It needs to be systematic and quick.  She really does get the concepts, she just needs more overall review to consolidate the info so it's there to retrieve when she needs it - I think that's the big issue.  I think it's really good she saw she bombed the SAT questions as it gives me a lot of leverage to switch to something else...  (as much as I do love AoPS!)

 

Have you considered the Rainbow Bridge Math for review? It has been mentioned to me a few times, so I am considering adding it in the mix after Algebra I while going through Geometry... that way there is review before getting to Algebra 2 and all is forgotten... just a thought...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Derek,

 

I followed up with the math lead at Wilson Hill, Anne Stublen, and my fears have been allayed. :)  My boys are going to go ahead w/ geometry at WHA. My ideal geometry class would be a 4 to 5 day a week, face-to-face local class using Jurgensen. I think the WHA class will be the next best thing. I'm not going to find a better text (for us) and I'm not going to find a more capable, experienced teacher than I think they'll have at WHA. Leslie has taught with the Jurgensen text before, and, in fact, that text is at the top of her list of favorite geometry texts.

 

The folks at WHA are very receptive to questions. Anne actually called me to discuss my concerns. I know you're already in touch with them, but if anyone else has questions or concerns about how the class will be taught, email them from the WHA site. There's nothing like going to the source to make sure you know what to expect and whether it will work for you.

 

Yvonne, 

 

Thanks to your input I have decided to enroll my son in WHA.  Your follow-up discussions with Anne were a good idea.  I just spoke with the instructor again and she stated that they are trying to work something out to assist in the grading of proofs.  So I'm in and look forward to her class this coming Fall.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
This is just an follow-up for anyone thinking of taking this course which our son is signed up for this Fall. Here is the electronic pen recommendation I just got from Leslie, the teacher of the course: 

 

Hi Derek,
I am sorry to be slow replying, but I have been in Hawaii this week on vacation. Here is the link for the pen that is being recommended:

http://www.amazon.co...ds=wacom intuos

Let me know if you have further questions.
Leslie

 

Also the associated 'Geometry: Solution Key' is confirmed to be ISBN 9780395677667.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...

This is an older thread, but I wanted to see if there have been any changes to the WHA Geometry course since 2014.  I was surprised to learn here that parents are supposed to grade the geometry homework.  Since we are now considering this math course for the fall, I need to understand if I am supposed to be grading proofs and what not. 

 

So what's the latest word on WHA Geometry?  Do parents still need to get the Solutions Manual and grade their dc's homework?  Are there any other subjects where parents are supposed to do the grading and how does this all work out from day to day and week to week?

 

Thanks so much,

 

Brenda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Omma,

 

in the math classes we have done through Wilson Hill so far (Alg 2, pre-calc) parents or the student are supposed to grade the homework using the solution guide.  However, all teachers we have so far had were/are more than happy to answer questions and there have been several help sessions when it seemed that students seemed to not master the material.  The homework grade is submitted the same day the chapter test is due.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My concern is when her answer to a proof is different than the one in the solution manual or her reason is not complete enough (how will I know???)  I fear I may be too lenient as it is in grading her proofs in Saxon this current year...  Otherwise, I do not mind grading math papers; I've done them all her life, actually!  It's just when there is more than one correct way to solve something that I have some concerns.  I'm sure the teacher would pick up on incomplete answers on tests and quizzes, though.

 

Another issue is that my dd likes to work her math problems out on white boards or notebook paper and doesn't always show all her steps.  But they must have to show all steps on quizzes/tests, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My son has only taken Alg 2 and pre-calc and from what I have seen, the work has to show how he derived the solution but he usually skips steps that are obvious at that stage in math.  He often has rather creative ways to solve a problem and his methods are correct but quite different than what is in a solution manual.  So far he has never lost points for that but I agree that geometry could be different (he took geometry with Derek Owens).  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know, I actually own all the Jacob's Geometry materials and they've been sitting on my shelf for over a year, waiting for the opportune moment.  Maybe this is it.  I could either sell these books and take Jurgensen's Geometry through WHA next year, with me having to grade the homework or I could have my dd do Jacob's Geometry with books I already own and he would grade all her homework. 

 

Since I am still contemplating trying to fulfill the graduation requirements for WHA, it makes sense to do everything possible with them, but I should be able to transfer in the math credit if I do it with Derek Owens and then my dd could do it on her own time.  Unless Jurgensen's and the WHA class environment is really THAT good! 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My daughter is currently in what geometry. I think you are stressing over the grading too much. Students attempt the homework, student or parent checks using answer key. If student doesn't understand, they ask for help on the discussion board. Students can rework problems until they can get the answer on their own. Even if it means studying the proof until they can reproduce it on their own the next day. There really isn't a good reason they shouldn't get a high grade (100 or close) on daily homework grades...

Edited by amy in ks
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...