Jump to content

Menu

Ask a Unitarian Universalist...


Rivka
 Share

Recommended Posts

I get the impression from my friends that it's a community that isn't really into 'religion' but they crave the social benefits of belonging to a congregation. Is this completely inaccurate?

 

I think that's somewhat true.  If you read the 7 principles of UU, they're very humanist principles.  I admit I get a little twitchy when people say this because sometimes there is a tone of it's lesser and we're pretending to be a church community.  If you're looking for a very structured, dogmatic church, it's not for you.  That's for certain.  However, there is a huge range of the thoughts and beliefs of actual members.    I will also say the Universilist church was founded during the 1700's.  So our roots are older than some other main stream churches.  Our church does do quite a bit of social justice and outreach work.  They strive to get enough pledged during their fall pledge drive so they can send weekly offerings out the door to area non-profits (homeless shelters, food shelves, women's programs, inclusive groups, etc). 

 

UU 7 principles.  Not sure if these were already posted.  This is basically the only things all UU can agree on, and you might even get into an argument about what each means if you spoke to 10 different UU's. 

 

1. The inherent worth and dignity of every person;

2. Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;

3.  Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;

4.  A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;

5.  The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;

6.  The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;

7.  Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do people of different faiths join a UU church (i.e. are there Buddhists and Christians and various Native religions) or is UU in itself a faith? (Like all paths lead to truth) For if you were a Buddhist, why would you choose a UU church rather than a Buddhist organization? Or is it not a faith? What brought you to UU? Is it the community or the ritual aspect?

 

I think a UU church sounds like a really fun place to hang out since I am fascinated by all sorts of spiritualities and faiths, but I would probably not want to participate in any rituals since I follow a particular faith.

 

That's a really, really good question. I hope other UUs will chime in with their perspectives as well.

 

My guess is that most UUs don't think of themselves as practicing a specific other faith like Christianity or Buddhism - they just think of themselves as "UU." They might include spiritual practices that stem from a particular tradition (for example, meditation) or describe themselves as being influenced by ideas from a particular tradition, or more commonly, they might draw from multiple traditions and ideas.

 

It seems to be a common pattern for UU sermons to start by exploring a religious concept from a particular tradition, examine how it relates to similar concepts in other traditions, and then talk about how that concept might have meaning in our own lives.  For example, "This week is Yom Kippur, and our Jewish neighbors are making apologies to people they have wronged and seeking reconciliation. In a Catholic tradition, reconciliation means [...etc...] How might we benefit from taking time to think about people whom we have harmed? How does it affect us to hold on to our past faults?"

 

I would say that probably UUs who do identify with a particular tradition, such as Christian UUs, practice that faith in a way that is melded with UU ideas and different from a "pure" doctrinal expression of the faith. Otherwise, as you say, they'd just be that thing. Sometimes they might be drawn to the UU church because there isn't an organized Buddhist or Pagan or whatever community in their town, and the UU church gives them an opportunity to be part of a religious community and find likeminded people. Sometimes they're intermarried - that's why I first went to a UU church. I would have been happy with a liberal Christian congregation, but my husband never would. We went to a UU church because it was important to us to go to church together.

 

Faith-specific rituals are rare in a UU church, precisely because there are a lot of people who would be uncomfortable with them. They are often limited to separate services for like-minded people. For example, my church had a Maundy Thursday service at which Communion was served, but they'd never serve bread-and-wine communion on Sunday morning. Similarly, in years in which there have been a lot of people in the congregation from Jewish backgrounds, we've had a Seder as a separate service. There's a mindfulness meditation group and a Pagan circle. Separating those things from Sunday morning allows them to include more rituals that not all would want to do.

  • Like 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Faith-specific rituals are rare in a UU church, precisely because there are a lot of people who would be uncomfortable with them. They are often limited to separate services for like-minded people. For example, my church had a Maundy Thursday service at which Communion was served, but they'd never serve bread-and-wine communion on Sunday morning. Similarly, in years in which there have been a lot of people in the congregation from Jewish backgrounds, we've had a Seder as a separate service. There's a mindfulness meditation group and a Pagan circle. Separating those things from Sunday morning allows them to include more rituals that not all would want to do.

 

We've had this same experience.  At Christmas time, there is Hannakuh stuff, a solstice service, a Christmas Eve Children's pagaent, and even Kwanzaa will make it's way into services that time of year.  We've attended a seder meal at our church.  I remember listening to a sermon on Ramadan and the practice of fasting.  Yoga and meditation are regular offerings.  It's a real mix.  I can't say what people's actual beliefs are, but no one is dogmatic about it.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I'm curious, as a UU, how would you respond to someone like my husband who is coming from a purely Christian background and says, "so, if anything goes, what's the point?" I think I probably have a pretty good idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems to be a common pattern for UU sermons to start by exploring a religious concept from a particular tradition, examine how it relates to similar concepts in other traditions, and then talk about how that concept might have meaning in our own lives. For example, "This week is Yom Kippur, and our Jewish neighbors are making apologies to people they have wronged and seeking reconciliation. In a Catholic tradition, reconciliation means [...etc...] How might we benefit from taking time to think about people whom we have harmed? How does it affect us to hold on to our past faults?

 

I would say that probably UUs who do identify with a particular tradition, such as Christian UUs, practice that faith in a way that is melded with UU ideas and different from a "pure" doctrinal expression of the faith. Otherwise, as you say, they'd just be that thing. Sometimes they might be drawn to the UU church because there isn't an organized Buddhist or Pagan or whatever community in their town, and the UU church gives them an opportunity to be part of a religious community and find likeminded people. Sometimes they're intermarried - that's why I first went to a UU church. I would have been happy with a liberal Christian congregation, but my husband never would. We went to a UU church because it was important to us to go to church together.

 

I really love all of this. This is actually living out the tolerance and love that you say you believe in.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looks like I'm late to the game :). So, let's see:

     Last I heard, the Pagan seminary I mentioned (Cherry Hill Seminary) is working on developing an arrangement with the UUA to train ministers directly, but it had not yet been accepted (the seminary is pretty new). Students from there would have to go through whatever process is in place for anyone coming from another religion. Our lead minister went to Harvard Divinity School, can't remember where the assistant minister was trained. Our lead minister is female (and gay), assistant minister male (and straight). The ministers preach 3 of 4 Sundays a month, with the other Sunday being a guest minister, guest speaker, or a speaker from the congregation. The guest minister may be UU or from another religious tradition (UCC, American Baptist, Reform Judaism, Buddhist, etc). The guest speaker may also be from the charity we've designated as recipient of half our plate collections for the month. I believe there are small congregations/fellowships which are entirely lay-led, either through choice or because they may not have the funds for paying a minister regularly. We don't take summers off, but we do change up the religious education, and that's usually when the ministers take their vacation time.

     Our services look a lot like the Protestant services I've attended: music, readings, collection, sermon. The service assistant lights the chalice (our main one is an oil lamp) while the congregation sings, "We light our flaming chalice to illuminate the world we seek. In the search for truth may we be just. In the search for justice may we be loving, and in loving, may we find peace." Children and youth are in the service for the first 15 minutes then we sing them out to their religious education classes (using either "Go now in peace, may the spirit of love surround you, everywhere you may go" or "May you always walk in peace, may our love surround you now, as you search to find your path"). When we were a smaller congregation, we had spoken joys and concerns every week, where folks came up to the mike. Now we have several options--folks can fill out a card to have their joy/concern read aloud by the minister, or, after that, people can line up while music is played, then come forward silently  to either light a candle, place a stone in a bowl of water, or hang a card on the ema stand (a Shinto tradition), then the minister leads a corporate prayer. No money charged for the use of the candle ;). At the end of the service, we join hands, sing together, and end the service with "may this circle, now open, remain unbroken" and then extinguish the chalice, with words along the lines of "We extinguish this flame, but not the light of truth, the warmth of community, or the fire of commitment. These we carry in our hearts until we are together again." The particular words will likely vary among congregations---the hymnal has a number of suggestions for opening/closing/various readings, or something else that is appropriate to the service can be used as desired.

      Most church-related meetings (events, committee meetings, classes, etc) begin and end with a chalice lighting. Many of those are candles rather than the oil lamp, and the younger children's classes use battery-operated candles or a felt hanging where they can stick a "flame" on. The children learn the "open hands/open minds/open heart" listed above, with appropriate hand gestures. :)

     The Unitarians and Universalists joined in 1961. 

      

     

     

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I'm curious, as a UU, how would you respond to someone like my husband who is coming from a purely Christian background and says, "so, if anything goes, what's the point?" I think I probably have a pretty good idea.

 

that is a really good question.

 

The thing with UU, is that it is what I like to call "advanced theology" if you want it to be.  I get that from the show The West Wing, where Pres. Bartlet talks about how the US is "advanced citizenship". It is meant to be a bit of a joke, before anyone get huffy with me.

 

It can feel meaningless if you don't do the work. Or it can at times. No one is going to call on you to profess your beliefs, no one is going to tell you why you are right or wrong. You will hopefully be challenged to think about why you think (or have faith) in the things you think or believe in, but you have to do the heavy lifting. What are the things that are important to you and why? On what do you base this faith or philosophy? Where are the things of authority to you? The bible? nature? What ever your choices, what does that mean for your life? How do you live it?

 

If you really want to know more the UUA has more info on its website:

 

http://www.uua.org/beliefs/

 

It is also difficult to say 'how things are' in a UU church because they are all different. For example, not all are churches, some are fellowships and are lay led. I grew up in a fellowship and it is very different from the church I now attend. There is no one right or wrong way for a UU service to go. The chalice is even a source of disagreement, because we do not worship or have symbols that hold greater importance than anything else. So, to some congregations, having a chalice lit smacks of worship.

 

I do think in all churches the congregation is in charge, in that we use the democratic process and strive to be transparent. Things like how our money is spend or how people are hired are all an open process (aside from standard HR confidentiality issues). We call (hire)  a minister and we can 'uncall' a minister. That is unusual, but I have seen it happen. It isn't pretty.

 

it is pretty common in my church to have at least one sermon a month be led by members of the congregation. A couple times a year we have a service that is led by the teens.

 

In my church the 7 principles are very important and referenced often, in both sermons and religious education, and we use them to inform our decisions. However, I have met UUs who don't even know the 7 principles exist.

 

If you want to know how the Unitarians and the Universalists joined I think it is all on wikipedia. But the second U is where some of the Christian traditions come from.  One of our ministers, who grew up Universalist, used to say," Unitarians believe man is too good to damn, and Universalists believe God is too good to damn him."  To a large extent the Universalist part of the church has been subsumed, especially in the NE, but I find it intriguing.

 

This was one of the best classes I ever took at church:

 

http://www.uuabookstore.org/productdetails.cfm?PC=678

 

I was lucky enough to take it with Dick Gilbert, the author, who was our minister at the time. I highly recommend it to all UU churches that have an adult RE program. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

It can feel meaningless if you don't do the work. Or it can at times. No one is going to call on you to profess your beliefs, no one is going to tell you why you are right or wrong. You will hopefully be challenged to think about why you think (or have faith) in the things you think or believe in, but you have to do the heavy lifting. What are the things that are important to you and why? On what do you base this faith or philosophy? Where are the things of authority to you? The bible? nature? What ever your choices, what does that mean for your life? How do you live it?

 

 

Yes, this exactly. Can I share a "reflection" I gave at my church last Mother's Day? I think it speaks directly to redsquirrel's point.

 

 

 

Eight years and 29 days ago, I sat in a wheelchair at the door of Mercy Hospital with my two-day-old daughter on my lap, waiting for Michael to bring the car around to take us home. I felt kind of like we were getting away with something. How could they just let us take this baby home? Whoever decided that we were qualified? ShouldnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t there be a test, or a license,or supervision Ă¢â‚¬â€œ something safer than a couple of sleep-deprived novices being allowed to waltz out into the world with an incredibly fragile, precious, helpless human being?

 

Well. As it turns out, there isnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t. The bar to entry for motherhood Ă¢â‚¬â€œ at least, for the biologically fortunate Ă¢â‚¬â€œ is very low. They let us take that baby home just the same as if we knew what we were doing, and eight years and 29 days later they still havenĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t figured out that we donĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t. It turns out that no one really checks up on you.

 

ItĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s strangely easy to walk out of the hospital with your baby. But it didnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t take me long to figure out that the motherhood part was going to be something I could spend the rest of my life trying to get right.

 

ItĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s strangely easy to become a UU. We have membership classes, but you donĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t have to take them. You donĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t have to learn and profess a doctrine, study any holy scriptures, undergo an ordeal, or even take an oath.You just write your name in the membership book, and behold! YouĂ¢â‚¬â„¢re a UU. Actually, you donĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t even have to do that Ă¢â‚¬â€œ there are at least twice as many Americans who identify as UU as there are members of UU churches. You can be a UU just by calling yourself one in your heart of hearts. No one really checks up on you.

 

ThereĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s a low bar of entry to be a UU. But then I smack up against that first principle, promoting the inherent worth and dignity of every person, and I think: holy cow. I could work on just that bit for the rest of my life, trying to get it right.

 

Now, unlike motherhood, there arenĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t a lot of big blinking neon signs in our culture to tell us how important liberal religion is. And there isnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t a multibillion-dollar industry designed to make you feel inadequate as a UU. We take that Welcome Table thing pretty seriously. We bend over backward to eradicate any potential sources of religious guilt or obligation. How many of us have introduced Unitarian-Universalism to someone with a litany of Ă¢â‚¬Å“you donĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t have to...Ă¢â‚¬s? Or said to people, Ă¢â‚¬Å“In a UU church, it doesnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t matter what you believe?Ă¢â‚¬

 

There was an Israeli child psychiatrist named Haim Ginott. One of the things I learned from his work is that you should never try to encourage a childĂ¢â‚¬â„¢s efforts by describing her task as easy. He points out: if the child canĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t do it, sheĂ¢â‚¬â„¢ll feel all the worse because she canĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t even do something you think is easy. If she succeeds? Big deal. It was easy, so where is the accomplishment? Instead he recommends saying something like, Ă¢â‚¬Å“Yeah, tying shoes can be really hard:Ă¢â‚¬ honoring the difficulty of what the child has undertaken.

 

I am here today to say to you: Unitarian-Universalism can be really hard. A free and responsible search for truth and meaning is not something to take on lightly; you may end up in places you didnĂ¢â‚¬â„¢t expect. Seeing inherent worth and dignity in every person, all of them, no exceptions, is going to be an impossible goal sometimes. And, as it turns out, it matters very much what you believe. I honor the difficulty of what you have undertaken.

 

As with parenthood, the low entry bar to liberal religion is deceptive. The standards you struggle to meet will mostly be your own. All of us who attempt it are going to fall ridiculously short, at times, of where we wanted to be. But as with parenthood, the rewards of committed practice may be greater than we could possibly have imagined.

  • Like 15
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is really great information, redsquirrel. Thank you. The bolded is especially appealing to me as it puts each person in charge of his or own spirituality in that if you want it to be meaningful and important then you have to make it so. It requires thought and sweat and dedication. Coming from a both a mainstream and fundamentalist Christian background, I feel like that very thing is given lip service there but isn't actually expected or desired. In my experience, towing the line and believing as you're told are most important.

 

^I hope that didn't come across as Christian bashing; that has simply been my experience with the 3 different churches that I attended as both a child and an adult.

 

 

that is a really good question.

 

The thing with UU, is that it is what I like to call "advanced theology" if you want it to be. I get that from the show The West Wing, where Pres. Bartlet talks about how the US is "advanced citizenship". It is meant to be a bit of a joke, before anyone get huffy with me.

 

It can feel meaningless if you don't do the work. Or it can at times. No one is going to call on you to profess your beliefs, no one is going to tell you why you are right or wrong. You will hopefully be challenged to think about why you think (or have faith) in the things you think or believe in, but you have to do the heavy lifting. What are the things that are important to you and why? On what do you base this faith or philosophy? Where are the things of authority to you? The bible? nature? What ever your choices, what does that mean for your life? How do you live it?

 

If you really want to know more the UUA has more info on its website:

 

http://www.uua.org/beliefs/

 

It is also difficult to say 'how things are' in a UU church because they are all different. For example, not all are churches, some are fellowships and are lay led. I grew up in a fellowship and it is very different from the church I now attend. There is no one right or wrong way for a UU service to go. The chalice is even a source of disagreement, because we do not worship or have symbols that hold greater importance than anything else. So, to some congregations, having a chalice lit smacks of worship.

 

I do think in all churches the congregation is in charge, in that we use the democratic process and strive to be transparent. Things like how our money is spend or how people are hired are all an open process (aside from standard HR confidentiality issues). We call (hire) a minister and we can 'uncall' a minister. That is unusual, but I have seen it happen. It isn't pretty.

 

it is pretty common in my church to have at least one sermon a month be led by members of the congregation. A couple times a year we have a service that is led by the teens.

 

In my church the 7 principles are very important and referenced often, in both sermons and religious education, and we use them to inform our decisions. However, I have met UUs who don't even know the 7 principles exist.

 

If you want to know how the Unitarians and the Universalists joined I think it is all on wikipedia. But the second U is where some of the Christian traditions come from. One of our ministers, who grew up Universalist, used to say," Unitarians believe man is too good to damn, and Universalists believe God is too good to damn him." To a large extent the Universalist part of the church has been subsumed, especially in the NE, but I find it intriguing.

 

This was one of the best classes I ever took at church:

 

http://www.uuabookstore.org/productdetails.cfm?PC=678

 

I was lucky enough to take it with Dick Gilbert, the author, who was our minister at the time. I highly recommend it to all UU churches that have an adult RE program.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are there UU churches that utilize a more inclusive service wherein the "sermon" is not one-sided and everyone can have a voice, discuss, debate etc. If they choose? I've always had this picture that that is the way that a religious meeting should be run.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are there UU churches that utilize a more inclusive service wherein the "sermon" is not one-sided and everyone can have a voice, discuss, debate etc. If they choose? I've always had this picture that that is the way that a religious meeting should be run.

 

LOL - you should look at the Quakers! :)  When I take the Belief-o-matic Liberal Quaker always is one of the top choices... Quaker meeting traditionally has no leader and people speak as they are moved to.  Traditional Quaker meetings may be even harder to find than UUs, though...  I have a friend who attends one, but it's very small, and her dd is the only kid.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are there UU churches that utilize a more inclusive service wherein the "sermon" is not one-sided and everyone can have a voice, discuss, debate etc. If they choose? I've always had this picture that that is the way that a religious meeting should be run.

 

We sometimes have a service where anyone who wants to is invited to speak on the topic during a specified time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are there UU churches that utilize a more inclusive service wherein the "sermon" is not one-sided and everyone can have a voice, discuss, debate etc. If they choose? I've always had this picture that that is the way that a religious meeting should be run.

In the virtual service we do that

 

Come to today's service, we start in ten minutes http://www.questformeaning.org/reflecting/worship

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

UU is a good faith if you feel in between. If you want to work towards the principals espoused in Buddhism in a serious way, but were raised in a Christian church and feel faith in the God of the Bible..... UU is a good place for you. 

 

UU is also a good place if you think social justice is important but are not a believer. It's a community of people who agree with you, or will want to talk with you about it, and will give you opportunitites to volunteer to do direct action to help people. Or, if you start a movement, the community will get behind you to volunteer and support.

 

The WORST part of UU to me is that it is from a Protestant tradition and I do not like that it has the trappings of a mainline Protestant church.  A minister who wears robes, for example.  Most of the hymns are from a Protestant background (sometimes with the words changed  a bit).  It feels like pageantry to me. But I put up with it, because the people are amazing. Kind, thoughtful, generous of spirit, genuinely welcoming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We sometimes have a service where anyone who wants to is invited to speak on the topic during a specified time.

 

We go to one of the larger UU congregations in the country.  I would say our regular services are pretty traditional format and we have 2 full time ministers with guest speakers in the summer.  I would say there are many, many settings in our church for more open discussion.  From free coffee after church, to the room dedicated to discussing the sermon after a service, to book club, the more casual Wednesday night services, to other open meetings and discussions, etc.  So although the services feel traditional in format (although the sermons often sound like a college lecture), I feel like there are many outlets for discussion. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We go to one of the larger UU congregations in the country.  I would say our regular services are pretty traditional format and we have 2 full time ministers with guest speakers in the summer.  I would say there are many, many settings in our church for more open discussion.  From free coffee after church, to the room dedicated to discussing the sermon after a service, to book club, the more casual Wednesday night services, to other open meetings and discussions, etc.  So although the services feel traditional in format (although the sermons often sound like a college lecture), I feel like there are many outlets for discussion. 

 

Yes to this for more informal speech.  For services,  the minister in our church will arrange to "copilot" a sermon with anyone who wants to- but it has to be written and discussed beforehand to make it relevant to the congregation. Some of those are the most interesting, challenging, enlightening Sunday mornings.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are there UU churches that utilize a more inclusive service wherein the "sermon" is not one-sided and everyone can have a voice, discuss, debate etc. If they choose? I've always had this picture that that is the way that a religious meeting should be run.

My church has times for that--a discussion before the Sunday service and often more than one on Wednesday night. There's also a discussion time after the service if folks are interested. But my congregation is too big for the service itself to work that way (probably 150 to 300 at any given Sunday service).

 

 

So I'm curious, as a UU, how would you respond to someone like my husband who is coming from a purely Christian background and says, "so, if anything goes, what's the point?" I think I probably have a pretty good idea.

It's not true that anything goes, though. Things only "go" if they ring true to you, align with your principles, and you're willing to live them out and bring them to fruition. You have to make them go. :) So the point is to develop your purpose and live it out. It can be as much of your life's work as you're willing to undertake.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you for starting this thread even it was an insomniac joke.  :laugh: I don't have time to read all the posts just right now (have to re-watch Cosmos with the girls), but I will come back later, especially to check out the links.  A few years ago I read A Chosen Faith: An Introduction to Unitarian Universalism and have always wanted to learn more. Now seems like an opportune time.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rivka, the reflection you posted is absolutely beautiful.  Thank you so much for sharing it.

 

And what a fascinating thread!  My own understanding of UU was basically "agnostics who like to sing."  ;) 

 

It may be time for me to check out the local group....

 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the virtual service we do that

 

Come to today's service, we start in ten minutes http://www.questformeaning.org/reflecting/worship

 

I was a few minutes late trying to figure out the workings at all, but I'm there now.  It is beautiful.

 

I opened a window wide (no screen so letting in anything that felt like visiting :) ) and lit some incense.  I loved the ritual of that accompanied with the message.  It was very calming and thoughtful.  Thank you for the invite.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

   My own understanding of UU was basically "agnostics who like to sing."  ;)

 

 

 

Okay, now we have to get to the jokes. Here's the first one.

 

Why do UU congregations sound so bad when they sing?

They're all trying to read ahead and see if they agree with the lyrics.

 

More at http://www.imladris.com/Sandbox/index.shtml?UuJokes.html and http://www.stanuu.org/jokes.html  for those who are so inclined.

  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are there UU churches that utilize a more inclusive service wherein the "sermon" is not one-sided and everyone can have a voice, discuss, debate etc. If they choose? I've always had this picture that that is the way that a religious meeting should be run.

 

Different congregations will have this happen to a greater or lesser extent, depending on a lot of variables. In our church, on the second Sunday of every month there's a sermon "talkback" or discussion after the service. Whoever wants to can meet with the minister and other members to give their opinion on the service topic. Another thing we'll do sometimes is have a lay-led service where, instead of one person delivering a sermon, maybe three people each speak for 6-7 minutes to give their take on a subject. The best Veterans Day service I've ever seen was one like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rivka, the reflection you posted is absolutely beautiful.  Thank you so much for sharing it.

 

And what a fascinating thread!  My own understanding of UU was basically "agnostics who like to sing."  ;)

 

It may be time for me to check out the local group....

 

:blushing: Thanks so much! My friend who is also our RE director was preaching on Mother's Day, and she asked me to say something about "liberal religion and obligation." Hm, turns out I have all kinds of opinions on that.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are there UU churches that utilize a more inclusive service wherein the "sermon" is not one-sided and everyone can have a voice, discuss, debate etc. If they choose? I've always had this picture that that is the way that a religious meeting should be run.

 

As with everything UU it depends on the congregation and/or the minister/celebration leader.  I have seen ministers who made time in every service to pass around the microphone and ask for feedback about what was said right then and there.  I have had seen congregations who had time after an entire service for anyone who wanted to come and sit down and have a deeper discussion.

 

Doing it right in the service can get exhausting. I sometimes think the last thing anyone should encourage a bunch of UUs to do is start talking. Once we start we don't like to stop. :laugh: If I see the mic come out for making the rounds I want to run!

 

 

UU is a good faith if you feel in between. If you want to work towards the principals espoused in Buddhism in a serious way, but were raised in a Christian church and feel faith in the God of the Bible..... UU is a good place for you. 

 

UU is also a good place if you think social justice is important but are not a believer. It's a community of people who agree with you, or will want to talk with you about it, and will give you opportunitites to volunteer to do direct action to help people. Or, if you start a movement, the community will get behind you to volunteer and support.

 

The WORST part of UU to me is that it is from a Protestant tradition and I do not like that it has the trappings of a mainline Protestant church.  A minister who wears robes, for example.  Most of the hymns are from a Protestant background (sometimes with the words changed  a bit).  It feels like pageantry to me. But I put up with it, because the people are amazing. Kind, thoughtful, generous of spirit, genuinely welcoming.

 

 

I agree totally. Whenever I am asked I really speak up and try to push for more 'out of the box' thinking. But I have never seen a UU minister wear robes. I have seen those... things that they wear around their neck like from a university, but never actual robes. That might push me right over the edge.

 

Rivka, the reflection you posted is absolutely beautiful.  Thank you so much for sharing it.

 

And what a fascinating thread!  My own understanding of UU was basically "agnostics who like to sing."  ;)

 

It may be time for me to check out the local group....

Like to sing? Yes. Can sing.... does the phrase 'bus wreck' mean anything to you?  Oh goodness it is BAD.  Enthusiastic but bad.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of a smallish group, a kind of Bible study-esque type setting rather than a church of 300 all trying to talk at once.  :laugh:  Microphones not necessary.  That would freak me out and I would hide under my chair.  It's great that so many congregations seem to have an open dialog opportunity even if it isn't quite what I was envisioning.

 

Matroyshka, you mentioned Quakers and that is something that I actually AM drawn to.  I need to look into it further.  When I took that Belief O-Matic quiz the very first time, it aligned me with the Quakers almost completely.  This time around, I used the "I don't know" button so liberally that it gave me Secular Humanism.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As with everything UU it depends on the congregation and/or the minister/celebration leader.  I have seen ministers who made time in every service to pass around the microphone and ask for feedback about what was said right then and there.  I have had seen congregations who had time after an entire service for anyone who wanted to come and sit down and have a deeper discussion.

 

Doing it right in the service can get exhausting. I sometimes think the last thing anyone should encourage a bunch of UUs to do is start talking. Once we start we don't like to stop. :laugh: If I see the mic come out for making the rounds I want to run!

 

 

ROFL - I feel that way EXACTLY!  :lol:

 

 

I agree totally. Whenever I am asked I really speak up and try to push for more 'out of the box' thinking. But I have never seen a UU minister wear robes. I have seen those... things that they wear around their neck like from a university, but never actual robes. That might push me right over the edge.

 

Our ministers generally wear robes.  I don't even think about it.  I'm fine either way.  Some UU's have strong opinions either way.  Our church does tend to be on the pagaent-y end of the spectrum, but it's a been around since 1890, so I do think it's more traditional in feel.  Even though it is absolutely NOT Christian.   Both DH and I were raised Catholic, so churchy stuff doesn't freak us out.  And there are members that don't even regularly attend Sunday service.  They might come to Wednesday programming or participate in other ways and groups and that is perfectly fine. 

 

Like to sing? Yes. Can sing.... does the phrase 'bus wreck' mean anything to you?  Oh goodness it is BAD.  Enthusiastic but bad.

 

Our church does WAY high brow music.  They have guest musicians in almost every week.  Half our choir is music majors and we have paid ringers.  My son's PhD trained piano teacher and his wife just started attending our UU (in their 60's), I'm sure the music helped them make that choice.  So they're all different.  :D

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can I put in a plug here for SUUSI? http://www.suusi.org/

 

SUUSI is an intergenerational summer camp for UUs and fellow travelers, including the UU-curious. It's held in Radford, Virginia in the third full week of July every year. It's an intense and miraculous experience of living in intentional community with 1000-1200 UUs. It's transformed my life, and I'm not just saying that because I'm on the Board.

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can tell you guys that I've been to a few different UU churches, wearing hijab, and nobody batted an eye.  I did get invited to a Goddess Belly dancing class, though, that met on Mondays.  Not sure if it was the hijab (heyĂ¢â‚¬Â¦maybe she's Arabic and likes to belly dance, my child birthing' hips, or just the hey, you're a woman you might enjoy this. LOL  (Think that's what it was called. :))

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like to sing? Yes. Can sing.... does the phrase 'bus wreck' mean anything to you?  Oh goodness it is BAD.  Enthusiastic but bad.

 

I feel like most UU hymns are unsingable.  Whenever there was something traditional sounding that was easy to sing it always turned out to be a good old Wesleyan hymn (or similar) with some altered words.  Every time we've been to my in-laws' UU church, I have spent the whole time cringing at the music.  However, the UU church I attended had two choirs and the music was a huge, important, amazing part of the service.  One of the choirs was founded by some of the members of Sweet Honey in the Rock and was a capella style singing, mostly from African American spirituals.  That church has a very diverse congregation.

 

We attended that UU church for many years but I got tired of a lot of things about it.  No comment on the UU's at all, more on churches in general and how hard they can be to really find your place in socially, especially if they're plagued by massive disorganization.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of a smallish group, a kind of Bible study-esque type setting rather than a church of 300 all trying to talk at once. :laugh: Microphones not necessary. That would freak me out and I would hide under my chair. It's great that so many congregations seem to have an open dialog opportunity even if it isn't quite what I was envisioning.

At my church, there are different small group meetings for different topics. One of them is usually a small group for members to be able to discuss with others more about their path and UU principles.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am really loving all of these "ask a..." threads. I'm a lurker on the boards, am struggling with my faith more than I know how to express, have no idea what I think/feel, homeschool, am struggling with that (it's our first year and I'm... overwhelmed)... reading all of these threads and learning more about different things has been wonderful, and seeing how everyone has been civil and welcoming has been even better. I really appreciate it. I was talking about my faith issues with my dad recently and told him that I took that belief-o-matic quiz and got "Liberal Christian Protestant," which made me laugh because I'm very liberal and grew up Lutheran. I've been considering attending a service at our local UU church and was trying to explain it to my dad and he said it sounded like they made nature their God (the Easter sermon was on "honoring the Earth." Later on in our conversation he commented that you could just take a drive and not be able to deny God... same concept, don't you think??). I didn't know how to clear up the misconception... how to clearly explain what a UU church stands for. Reading this has been very helpful. 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel like most UU hymns are unsingable.  Whenever there was something traditional sounding that was easy to sing it always turned out to be a good old Wesleyan hymn (or similar) with some altered words.  Every time we've been to my in-laws' UU church, I have spent the whole time cringing at the music.  However, the UU church I attended had two choirs and the music was a huge, important, amazing part of the service.  One of the choirs was founded by some of the members of Sweet Honey in the Rock and was a capella style singing, mostly from African American spirituals.  That church has a very diverse congregation.

 

We attended that UU church for many years but I got tired of a lot of things about it.  No comment on the UU's at all, more on churches in general and how hard they can be to really find your place in socially, especially if they're plagued by massive disorganization.

 

I can't stand UU hymns.

But our congregation has a strong emphasis on classical music. We have a lot of early music in particular- Bach especially- played in services.

We also have a strong folk element and there is a guitar strumming folk choir once a month that gets the whole church singing along to Phil Ochs or Pete Seeger, which is really fun.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, I can't resist sharing one more video. This was made by some of the kids at our church, talking about what they like about church. My daughter's the one with long blonde hair, the very first to appear. She is proud to announce that the misspelled sign is her work.  :tongue_smilie:  I think of a lot of those kids as "my" kids, though, because I led RE.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Y'all can be inclusive, tolerant, loving etc. but you can't toss in some rock music or maybe a little reggae? LOL. I kid. I kid. :-)

You kid but we have to live through it! We don't have rock often , but the teen-led sessions have pop songs usually (played on speakers, not sung by the choir, thankfully). And the uu hymnal has some calypso that is probably quote nice done well.... but sung by the congregation is just painful.

 

One thing I like about UU is the readings drawn from secular traditions. We get lots from religious traditions but also passages from George Eliot or Auden, or from great speakers like Lincoln and Mandela. It's very freeing to be able to draw inspiration from so many sources.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I complained a lot about the hymns when I first became UU, but now there are a number of them that I really like. From the grey hymnal (Singing the Living Tradition) some of my favorites are:

 

- For the Earth, Forever Turning

- We'll Build a Land (my favorite!!)

- Earth Was Given as a Garden

- I Know This Rose Will Open

- Welcome Table

- The Peace Not Past Our Understanding (LOVE the words to this one)

- Let Nothing Evil Cross This Door

- Guide My Feet

- Come, Come, Whoever You Are

- My Life Flows On in Endless Song

- Sing Out Praises for the Journey

- Gather the Spirit

- Find a Stillness

- Now Let Us Sing (an absolute favorite)

 

My congregation also uses the new teal hymnal, Singing the Journey, and I really like a lot of the songs in that one. It helps that our minister is a very strong song leader.

 

There are, however, UU hymns I completely and utterly hate. Usually because they are incredibly trite and insipid. However, lots of other people seem to like them. I hate:

- Let It Be a Dance

- Come, Sing a Song with Me

- We Laugh, We Cry (I hate this one SO MUCH. My old ministers LOVED it. *shudder*)

 

This site for UU musicians has hilarious commentary on the hymns, regarding whether or not they are tolerable. For example: "Sounds like a Muppet song!" "Ponderous, not singable." "Dear congregation, No."

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

aww, I love a lot of the UU hymns!  We have the regular and the newer teal hymbooks, too, and I'm in the choir.  We did a pop song this past sunday and it was lovely - someone recorded it and posted it on our fb page (i'm totally hidden behind someone, you can glimpse my hair a few times)

 

A coupla things - 

 

My church stopped the bit where people talk in the microphone about joys and concerns.  You can write them on a card, you can light a candle silently, then the minister reads the cards.  I have seen people who obviously have issues who get up, light a candle, and start rambling on and on (one would talk about something she read in the paper, the other would discuss what he did in his college classes this week), so sometimes it needs to be managed, I guess.  

 

People come to UU churches for so many reasons.  I know some come per previous poster due to mixed marriages.  I've heard some say that they had questions about their faith which were disallowed at their church, and they can be a UU and still pursue their questions.  Others wanted to bring in parts of other faiths, and that wasnt allowed.  My church has a large number of lesbians who were frustrated with their church's stance on their issues - and one couple who was publicly in-the-papers kicked out of their church for being gay.  

 

But I know there are christians in my church, and jews, and i'm an atheist, and the minister we are courting this week is a buddhist - she actually came to a UU church when she and her husband realized that the buddhist organization they were a part of was really more political than religious, and they were looking for a spiritual home in a town that had no other buddhist organizations.  

 

The point is to come together with like-minded people, support each other and each others spiritual journeys, while doing good for the community.  

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Y'all can be inclusive, tolerant, loving etc. but you can't toss in some rock music or maybe a little reggae? LOL. I kid. I kid. :-)

Oh, we have had rock bands, gospel singers, gay chorus clapping African rhythms, gregorian chants, singing bowls, etc. We pretty much see it all in terms of music.

 

ETA this week in the RE class I was teaching we listened to Vivaldi's 4 seasons and then talked about and sang the Byrds Turn turn turn. :)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

aww, I love a lot of the UU hymns!  We have the regular and the newer teal hymbooks, too, and I'm in the choir.  We did a pop song this past sunday and it was lovely - someone recorded it and posted it on our fb page (i'm totally hidden behind someone, you can glimpse my hair a few times)

 

I think a large part of it is just the newness of many UU congregations coupled with the arrangement of the music.  I mean, if I had never heard the national anthem, I might find it unsingable (it might be anyway, to be fair) but if you threw me into a room of people who all could sing it, that would be okay.  I feel like UU churches often have so many first generation UU's that no one knows how to sing anything and everyone is just garbling through it.

 

The songs - like Welcome Table - that we used to sing that were based on African American spirituals were always clearly the best ones.  And at the children's service, which I went to when I taught RE one year, it turned out there were UU children's songs and they were all very sweet actually.  Like one about a telephone wire...  now I can't remember how it went, but I remember I liked it especially.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, you don't need to be a member to attend. Not at all. Being a member means you can vote at the yearly meeting and when a minister is called. You might need to be a member serve a term on the board, but I am not positive. Oh, and you can get married or have your funeral there for free, can't forget that. It doesn't obligate you to anything that I can think of. It is mostly about voting from what I can remember.

 

Becoming a member is for the church you join. If I move I will have to become a member of my new church. It doesn't carry over.

 

Some churches might have a process in becoming a member and others are low key. My church is low key. You just sign the book. That is all you do. No ceremony or anything.

 

I have seen people join after attending once, and I have friends who have been attending for decades and are very active but are not members.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, we have had rock bands, gospel singers, gay chorus clapping African rhythms, gregorian chants, singing bowls, etc. We pretty much see it all in terms of music.

 

ETA this week in the RE class I was teaching we listened to Vivaldi's 4 seasons and then talked about and sang the Byrds Turn turn turn. :)

I know it's probably a missing comma, but I am just tickled pink at the idea of a gay chorus whose entire repertoire is clapped African rhythms.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fascinating! My great aunt is a UU minister but I have never had a chance to talk to her about her church. Now I'll know some good questions to ask if I see her again (she lives across the country). One for the board: I have seen reference to paid clergy. Are most clergy full time or part time? What kinds of duties are involved? Is a minister expected to visit the sick, do counseling, clean the church, etc? I realize it might change from congregation to congregation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you have to be an " official member" to attend?  What does that even mean (being an official member)?

 

I attended CLF for over a year before becoming a member

 

 

Come, Come, Whoever You Are

 

This is one of my favourite and the one we sing at the chalice lighting every week.

 

I'll try and link some of the songs we sing today.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

Ă—
Ă—
  • Create New...