S/O Ask a Muslim...

[umsami]

Spin off of the "Ask an Atheist" thread...

 

If there are questions you'd like to ask a Muslim, I'd be happy to try to answer as I'm sure other Muslims on the board would.  I don't know how varied the madhabs (schools of though, kind of like denominations) are…but we'll do our best.

 

 

The number one question I'm asked, "Are you hot in that?"  (Referring to my hijab…and I live in FL).  Answer?? Yes, if it's 95 degrees out and humid, I'm hot.  I'd be hot without it on.  But in general, different fabrics are better for different climates. :)

 

 

[mom2bee]

 

 

The number one question I'm asked, "Are you hot in that?"  (Referring to my hijab…and I live in FL).

 

Wow, I live in FL and am a Muslim, and my experience is aligned with yours exactly! I even have the exact same response!

 Answer?? Yes, if it's 95 degrees out and humid, I'm hot.  I'd be hot without it on.  But in general, different fabrics are better for different climates. :))

ETA because I can't spell-well!

[Slache]

Are you frequently mistreated by Christians?

[serendipitous journey]

Can you recommend a good source for developing an understanding of Muslim worldview?  I was a practicing Catholic into my twenties, so I understand that; Bunyan & CS Lewis & Paul Tillich & so on have me pretty solid on Protestantism; my understanding of Judaism and the Jewish perspective is okay.  But I haven't been able to get a good feel for the Muslim spiritual reality, for an Islamic perspective. 

 

Related, any resources for teaching the Islamic holy texts and particularly for memorizing Islamic prayers and passages would be appreciated.  I believe the intent behind our memorization is respectful, because the goal is to grow in our understanding of the ultimate and in our understanding for others.  But if such memorization would be offensive please let me know. 

 

ETA: not Karen Armstrong, please.  :)  I just know I myself found her work on Christianity more irritating than helpful, so I'd rather not turn to her for Islam.   

[umsami]

Are you frequently mistreated by Christians?

 

I'm not frequently mistreated by anybody. :)  

 

I've had people of all faiths go out of their way to give a smile, to hold a door, or what not.  I remember this Orthodox Jewish guy coming back to hold the door for me when I had DS1 in a stroller…a few years after 9/11.  That was very nice.

 

 

I've had people be incredibly rude…too….but I can't say that they belong to one faith or specific group.

 

 

But in media, it does tend to be Christians or supposedly Christians, such as Franklin Graham, the Duck Dynasty guy, etc.  I think it's easier to be rude and judgmental when you're not dealing with a "real" person, but just an imagined "other".

[plumshadow]

Are you allowed to own a dog? And is wearing a hijab an absolute must?  (I'm guessing it is but I know converts who don't and I never knew how to ask them if they are in fact completely Muslim or just practicing certain aspects of it)

[umsami]

Can you recommend a good source for developing an understanding of Muslim worldview?  I was a practicing Catholic into my twenties, so I understand that; Bunyan & CS Lewis & Paul Tillich & so on have me pretty solid on Protestantism; my understanding of Judaism and the Jewish perspective is okay.  But I haven't been able to get a good feel for the Muslim spiritual reality, for an Islamic perspective. 

 

Related, any resources for teaching the Islamic holy texts and particularly for memorizing Islamic prayers and passages would be appreciated.  I believe the intent behind our memorization is respectful, because the goal is to grow in our understanding of the ultimate and in our understanding for others.  But if such memorization would be offensive please let me know. 

 

ETA: not Karen Armstrong, please.  :)  I just know I myself found her work on Christianity more irritating than helpful, so I'd rather not turn to her for Islam.   

 

 

For a good kind of overview on Islam, I really liked Reza Aslan's book, "No god but God."  Also, don't underestimate Yahya Emerick's "Complete Idiot's Guide to Understanding Islam".

 

For actual spirituality, I tend towards more Sufi-oriented stuff.  On the prayer, one of the most beautiful books is "The Illuminated Prayer" by Coleman Barks.

Robert Frager's books are very good, too. 

 

I also recently discovered Jamal Rahman's work.  I liked both of his books. http://www.amazon.com/The-Fragrance-Faith-Enlightened-Heart/dp/1904510086/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1398468150&sr=8-2&keywords=islam+seattle

 

 

For listening to Qur'an, I love Camille Helminski's recitation as she includes English and Arabic.  (Note: she mainly does the English, and a native Arabic speaker does the Arabic.)  I also like how she's very inclusive in referring to God as not exclusively male.  https://sufism.org/store/products/mevlevi-wird-2-cd

 

For actually learning Qur'an, youtube is great.  Most people start by learning Al Fatihah as it's the surah that is used in all of the prayers.  It's kind of like the Lord's Prayer.  Then they often go to some of the shorter surahs in the last Juz (portion) of the Qur'an like "Al Ikhlas", "Al Falaq" and "An Nas."

 

Hopefully others will reply with their suggestions. :) 

[umsami]

Are you allowed to own a dog? And is wearing a hijab an absolute must?  (I'm guessing it is but I know converts who don't and I never knew how to ask them if they are in fact completely Muslim or just practicing certain aspects of it)

 

Muslims do own dogs, but in general it's rare and they're supposed to be "working" dogs…so a guard dog, seeing eye dog, etc.  If you do own a regular dog that lives in your house, then it's a pain when it comes time to prayer because you have to wash things a lot more.  Still, I owned a dog growing up and would love to have one again.  I think we'd probably dedicate a specific room for prayer that could be closed off to prevent issues.  There is a saying that angels will not enter a home where dogs live, so that's why Muslims tend not to own them.  

 

There's a scholar who went through this whole debate on could Muslims own dogs or not, but a lot of it is cultural.  So, it will still be rare to find Muslims who own dogs, and also know that a lot of Muslim kids grow up with a fear of dogs.  There's a neighborhood girl who freaks when she sees the local English Sheepdog on his walk, but honestly, he is the sweetest dog I've ever met.  He might lick her to death, but that would be about it. ;)

 

There is a debate on hijab too.  I would guess that about half of the Muslim women I know wear hijab.  Just because somebody doesn't wear it, does not mean that they are not a practicing or good Muslim.  There is a debate about that too. (Muslims debate a lot.)  Some say that based on the reading of the Qur'an, that the only requirement is really modesty and to lengthen one's garments.  Others say that because of the purpose of hijab is to protect a woman and to ideally not bring attention to her, then wearing hijab in the West accomplishes the complete opposite.  SO they don't wear it.  Others don't wear it because they may acknowledge it's required, but choose not to.  While there are lots of punishments spoken about in the Qur'an, there is none mentioned for not wearing hijab.

 

There are also those that say it is 100% required.  No debate.  No exceptions.  That women who do not wear it are going to hellfire.  Even for those that believe it, reality of wearing it here is extremely difficult.  It is 1000% easier to wear it when I visit DH's family in Egypt.  Why? Because I'm normal there.  It would be just as difficult not to wear it there as it is to wear it here.  A lot of converts wear it so that they can publicly identify as Muslim.  It helps them feel like they fit in to the community more.  

 

In general, however, there is a tendency for both Muslims and non-Muslim to judge Muslim women whether or not they wear hijab.  I try to step away from that.  Women have enough to deal with already.  There are much more important spiritual things to focus on, such as do you give charity, are you kind, are you forgiving, etc. iMHO.

[Um_2_4]

Are you frequently mistreated by Christians?

 

Define mistreated??? Personally I have not been beaten or physically threatened.

I had a friend whose hijab (head scarf) was ripped off her head by someone at a Walmart and attacked physically. Police were called.

I have been told to "go home" (I am American through and through, in fact part Cherokee, British, Irish and German).

I have been told I was not welcome in a homeschool group (no statement of faith was asked for and they claimed to be "open")

I have been treated unkindly/rudely by service people (waitresses, counter staff, cashiers, hospital staff). Some assumed I would not speak English that well and said things to me or the cashier/nurse next to them that I overheard.

 

I have met some who have been kind/understanding/welcoming, but since I converted almost 20 years ago I have since learned what discrimination means unfortunately.

[umsami]

Define mistreated??? Personally I have not been beaten or physically threatened.

I had a friend whose hijab (head scarf) was ripped off her head by someone at a Walmart and attacked physically. Police were called.

I have been told to "go home" (I am American through and through, in fact part Cherokee, British, Irish and German).

I have been told I was not welcome in a homeschool group (no statement of faith was asked for and they claimed to be "open")

I have been treated unkindly/rudely by service people (waitresses, counter staff, cashiers, hospital staff). Some assumed I would not speak English that well and said things to me or the cashier/nurse next to them that I overheard.

 

I have met some who have been kind/understanding/welcoming, but since I converted almost 20 years ago I have since learned what discrimination means unfortunately.

 

Yes, I've had all that too…but not frequent.   By frequent, I would assume a regular experience.  I'd say I have about one or two bad incidents per year.  

 

I agree, though, regarding converting being eye-opening regarding discrimination…. especially since 9/11.  It wasn't as bad before (You were still weird, but not a terrorist.  I wasn't told to go back where I came from, etc.)

[plumshadow]

Thank you for clarifying! I truly speculated over that for awhile.

[Ameena]

The number one question I'm asked, "Are you hot in that?"  (Referring to my hijab…and I live in FL).  Answer?? Yes, if it's 95 degrees out and humid, I'm hot.  I'd be hot without it on.  But in general, different fabrics are better for different climates. :)

 

I get that & I don't even wear hijab! I've had people concerned because I'm wearing long sleeves in 100+ degree weather before.

 

Are you frequently mistreated by Christians?

 

Yes and no. As a rule, no. But I have found locally, within the HSing community that I get dropped like a hot potato from activities, email list, etc when they find out. However we have a very fundie HSing community here for the most part, so I understand it to a degree.

 

Can you recommend a good source for developing an understanding of Muslim worldview?  I was a practicing Catholic into my twenties, so I understand that; Bunyan & CS Lewis & Paul Tillich & so on have me pretty solid on Protestantism; my understanding of Judaism and the Jewish perspective is okay.  But I haven't been able to get a good feel for the Muslim spiritual reality, for an Islamic perspective. 

 

Related, any resources for teaching the Islamic holy texts and particularly for memorizing Islamic prayers and passages would be appreciated.  I believe the intent behind our memorization is respectful, because the goal is to grow in our understanding of the ultimate and in our understanding for others.  But if such memorization would be offensive please let me know. 

 

ETA: not Karen Armstrong, please.  :)  I just know I myself found her work on Christianity more irritating than helpful, so I'd rather not turn to her for Islam.   

I

2nd the recommendations for Idiot's guide to Islam. And Youtube. For Quran memorization, there are some great youtube videos that go one phonetic sound at a time & have lots of repetition. 

 

Are you allowed to own a dog? And is wearing a hijab an absolute must?  (I'm guessing it is but I know converts who don't and I never knew how to ask them if they are in fact completely Muslim or just practicing certain aspects of it)

 

Dogs - This is something that differs among schools of thought & individuals. The teaching I was given was that dogs as pets in the house is a no, but dogs as pets outside / working dogs / guard dogs are okay. The minimum is no dogs in the prayer area.

 

Hijab - again, this differs. While yes Hijab is generally regarded as fard {compulsory}, on the other hand there is another teaching that says there is no compulsion in Islam. So many do not wear it, or wear it only for Islamic talks / prayer / at the Masjid. I don't wear hijab, but I'm striving towards it - make sense? There are also those who wear it just for cultural / family reasons, not as a religious act.

[Um_2_4]

Are you allowed to own a dog? And is wearing a hijab an absolute must?  (I'm guessing it is but I know converts who don't and I never knew how to ask them if they are in fact completely Muslim or just practicing certain aspects of it)

 

In regards to dogs: working dogs for guarding/farm work are often used, but I personally would not keep one in a house and I prefer to stay away from them because of cleanliness issues (their hair/saliva, etc.) I personally have not known any practicing Muslims (those who pray the required prayers and fast) to keep one in the house for that reason.

 

Hijab is , in my studies, required ( the scholars I follow (like a school of thought) all agree it is required, some scholars debate the EXTENT of the hijab, neck or not, etc.) but there are a few, whom I do not follow, that say only the chest etc is required to be covered. But that doesn't mean a woman who doesn't wear it is NOT a Muslim. She might wear it in the prayers only or at the Mosque only. To be a Muslim it is the BELIEF in the heart that is important.

[umsami]

Oh, I should add re: hijab, that as far as I know, all women do wear it when they pray.  Even the Muslim women I know who do not wear it regularly.  They would also make sure that their legs and arms were covered fully (so long sleeves/pants or floor length skirt).  There's actually prayer garments that people keep at home to allow for an easy cover up. :)   Then tend to come in weird prints, IMHO, but have the advantage that you know they cover everything…and as you don't wear them all the time, they're usually clean.  http://www.alhannah.com/products/ps353.html

[73349]

Do most Muslims attend services regularly, or is your practice mainly in your home? Or does it depend on where you are (i.e.,  easier to attend in a city/country where there are many worshipers?)?

 

If you do go to a mosque, do whole families attend together? Is it something that varies from one place/school to another, as it does among Christian denominations?

[plumshadow]

Do you have to wear that when you pray at home too or out at a mosque?

[shukriyya]

For a good kind of overview on Islam, I really liked Reza Aslan's book, "No god but God."  Also, don't underestimate Yahya Emerick's "Complete Idiot's Guide to Understanding Islam".

 

For actual spirituality, I tend towards more Sufi-oriented stuff.  On the prayer, one of the most beautiful books is "The Illuminated Prayer" by Coleman Barks.

Robert Frager's books are very good, too. 

 

I also recently discovered Jamal Rahman's work.  I liked both of his books. http://www.amazon.com/The-Fragrance-Faith-Enlightened-Heart/dp/1904510086/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1398468150&sr=8-2&keywords=islam+seattle

 

 

For listening to Qur'an, I love Camille Helminski's recitation as she includes English and Arabic.  (Note: she mainly does the English, and a native Arabic speaker does the Arabic.)  I also like how she's very inclusive in referring to God as not exclusively male.  https://sufism.org/store/products/mevlevi-wird-2-cd

 

For actually learning Qur'an, youtube is great.  Most people start by learning Al Fatihah as it's the surah that is used in all of the prayers.  It's kind of like the Lord's Prayer.  Then they often go to some of the shorter surahs in the last Juz (portion) of the Qur'an like "Al Ikhlas", "Al Falaq" and "An Nas."

 

Hopefully others will reply with their suggestions. :)

 

Yes, to the bolded! Love Coleman's work and this particularly is very accessible as well as beautifully illustrated. And Physicians of the Heart :: A Sufi View of the 99 Names of Allah is another superb perspective, scholarly, mystical and very accessible.

 

Lots of info here, here and here and various podcasts for those wanting to view Islam through a Sufi lens.

 

And lastly for those wanting to hear a portion of the Qur'an recited

is an exquisite rendering of Sura Yasin.

[umsami]

Do you have to wear that when you pray at home too or out at a mosque?

 

You don't have to wear a special outfit, either at home or a mosque, but you are required to have your arms (to the wrist), and legs (to the ankle) covered, as well as your head/neck.  I have seen some teen girls wear a hoodie, but IMHO, that doesn't work well because it leaves too much neck.  (Note: If you ever visit a mosque, they will just expect you to dress modestly.  Some have scarves for visitors, others do not.  You're expected to take off your shoes before you enter the prayer area (there are shoe racks).)

 

Depending on the ethnic make-up of the mosque (masjid), you'll see different clothing.  That's one of the best things about being a Muslim in the States, actually.  You get an awesome variety of food at community dinners, and you get to see so many beautiful different outfits at Eid. 

[plumshadow]

Also, are woman allowed to pray in front of their husband or any man?

[shukriyya]

Umsami, you might be interested in this book. Beautiful, in-depth, exhaustively researched poetic-prose on the wives of the Prophet. The author is sufi.

[umsami]

I personally have not known any practicing Muslims (those who pray the required prayers and fast) to keep one in the house for that reason.

 

 

I personally know one family who owned a dog.  The Mom and all the daughters wore hijab (even starting younger than required), they made Hajj, they did their five regular prayers, fasted, etc.  BUT, they did not broadcast that fact to the larger community, which makes me think that a big portion of it is cultural.  I'll also say that in Egypt, rabies is a real concern with street dogs.  So being wary of dogs is not necessarily a bad idea there.

 

Do most Muslims attend services regularly, or is your practice mainly in your home? Or does it depend on where you are (i.e.,  easier to attend in a city/country where there are many worshipers?)?

 

If you do go to a mosque, do whole families attend together? Is it something that varies from one place/school to another, as it does among Christian denominations?

 

It can be really tough for American Muslims to attend services regularly because they take place at 1:00 or so on a Friday afternoon.  Not everybody's job allows that.  As far as I know, no mosque has offered evening services or a make-up type Friday prayer.

 

For men it is viewed as a requirement to go.  For women, it's not required.  Still, in my experience, it varies by community.  I've been in two communities where the men and women attendees equal each other.  In general, these communities had very nice areas for women too.  Where I am now, women rarely attend, but then again, the area is small…and they put up this giant curtain when even one woman attends. (eye roll)

 

Kids 10 and under can sit with either Moms or Dad.  In general, over 10 or puberty, they'll stay with the same sex parent.  At community events, things are usually segregated as well where I've lived….so  women will line up for food, and eat in one area…and men will do it after.  It could vary by community, though.

[umsami]

Umsami, you might be interested in this book. Beautiful, in-depth, exhaustively researched poetic-prose on the wives of the Prophet. The author is sufi.

 

Thanks. :) Might be a Mother's Day gift for me. :)  (Side note, I think sadly her son was recently killed in Thailand or something if I'm thinking of the same woman. :()

[umsami]

Also, are woman allowed to pray in front of their husband or any man?

 

If you mean in front of, as in standing in front of, no, in general men are in front of the women.  It varies as to whether or not there is just some empty space, a tape divider like you see at Disney, a curtain, or a wall in between the male and female prayer sections.

 

At home, families pray together, but usually the Dad is the Imam and leads the prayer so he would stand in front a little bit.

[shukriyya]

Thanks. :) Might be a Mother's Day gift for me. :) (Side note, I think sadly her son was recently killed in Thailand or something if I'm thinking of the same woman. :()

Yes, just over two years ago.

[idnib]

Muslim here...

 

Agree with the recommendation for No God but God. For a well-known interview with the author, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwWbPpFZ31s . The interviewer is...something else.

 

I think the dog thing is mostly cultural. I've been told it's the dog's saliva which is dirty but I grew up with cats and they licked me all the time. I don't feel comfortable around dogs due to my upbringing but I think they are wonderful and useful animals.

 

I don't wear a hijab unless I am at the masjid (mosque) or somewhere else it would be uncomfortable not to wear one. My family is from SE Asia and they often wear dupatas (long scarves) and use those for praying. I'm very physically uncomfortable wearing something that tight and I feel claustrophobic in it. I could probably get used to it if I wore it consistently. Frankly, I also have no desire to wear Arab garments; I am not Arab and dress modestly using my own styles. I do believe there has been a resurgence in hijabs since 9/11. Many women wear them now who didn't in the 70s/80s/90s. Part of it has become an identity/being visible thing.

 

 

[Slache]

Define mistreated??? Personally I have not been beaten or physically threatened.

I had a friend whose hijab (head scarf) was ripped off her head by someone at a Walmart and attacked physically. Police were called.

I have been told to "go home" (I am American through and through, in fact part Cherokee, British, Irish and German).

I have been told I was not welcome in a homeschool group (no statement of faith was asked for and they claimed to be "open")

I have been treated unkindly/rudely by service people (waitresses, counter staff, cashiers, hospital staff). Some assumed I would not speak English that well and said things to me or the cashier/nurse next to them that I overheard.

 

I have met some who have been kind/understanding/welcoming, but since I converted almost 20 years ago I have since learned what discrimination means unfortunately.

 

Geez. That's not what I meant, but I guess it answers my question. I'm sorry.

[MercyA]

Define mistreated??? Personally I have not been beaten or physically threatened.

I had a friend whose hijab (head scarf) was ripped off her head by someone at a Walmart and attacked physically. Police were called.

I have been told to "go home" (I am American through and through, in fact part Cherokee, British, Irish and German).

I have been told I was not welcome in a homeschool group (no statement of faith was asked for and they claimed to be "open")

I have been treated unkindly/rudely by service people (waitresses, counter staff, cashiers, hospital staff). Some assumed I would not speak English that well and said things to me or the cashier/nurse next to them that I overheard.

 

I have met some who have been kind/understanding/welcoming, but since I converted almost 20 years ago I have since learned what discrimination means unfortunately.

 

I am so sorry.  :(

 

[DawnM]

That is horrible.

 

I have listened to people's opinions of Muslims and I must say there is just so much ignorance and the ignorance is largely based on fear.    I wish that were not the case, but it is.

 

Dawn

 

Define mistreated??? Personally I have not been beaten or physically threatened.

I had a friend whose hijab (head scarf) was ripped off her head by someone at a Walmart and attacked physically. Police were called.

I have been told to "go home" (I am American through and through, in fact part Cherokee, British, Irish and German).

I have been told I was not welcome in a homeschool group (no statement of faith was asked for and they claimed to be "open")

I have been treated unkindly/rudely by service people (waitresses, counter staff, cashiers, hospital staff). Some assumed I would not speak English that well and said things to me or the cashier/nurse next to them that I overheard.

 

I have met some who have been kind/understanding/welcoming, but since I converted almost 20 years ago I have since learned what discrimination means unfortunately.

 

[Um_2_4]

Do Muslims evangelize and if not why?

 

If you convert, are you expected to learn Arabic?

 

Is it proper to refer to someone as Muslim or Islamic or are both correct?

First, I am on my tablet, so please excuse typos :), but I will try to answer in order.

We do not "evangelize" in the same way I understand christians to mean it (ie knocking on doors and the like) but if someone is interested I will gladly spend a few hours explaining the basics and answering questions.

You do not HAVE to learn Arabic, some do, some don't. Usually they learn some basic chapters of the Quran to say in the prayers and what they mean in english.

You would use the world Muslim to refer to the person and Islamic is to refer to the faith or a tradition or a place. Like for example an Islamic center or holiday or celebration. A person is a Muslim.

[Unicorn.]

Why the separation during prayers and meals?

[Ameena]

This has been bugging me for a while, maybe some of the other Muslims here know the answer. I asked a friend & she didn't know either. What exactly is Muslim Sunday School? Do you send your kids? What is Muslim Scouts {All I know is co-ed & not BSA/GSA}?

 

The masjid across town does both, but we have never been there as it's quite a trip by city bus. Wondering if we are missing something great. We finally have a tiny masjid on this side of town in an old storefront :)

[umsami]

This has been bugging me for a while, maybe some of the other Muslims here know the answer. I asked a friend & she didn't know either. What exactly is Muslim Sunday School? Do you send your kids? What is Muslim Scouts {All I know is co-ed & not BSA/GSA}?

 

The masjid across town does both, but we have never been there as it's quite a trip by city bus. Wondering if we are missing something great. We finally have a tiny masjid on this side of town in an old storefront :)

 

We have Muslim Sunday School where I used to live, also called Muslim Weekend School.  Kids learn to read Arabic, learn about Islam, etc.  They used the "I Love Islam" series.  http://www.myislamicbooks.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=81_77

 

As for Muslim scouts, the ones I know of are affiliated with BSA and GSA…. just made up of Muslim kids.  There are special badges they can earn too.  http://www.muslimscouting.org

[idnib]

You do not HAVE to learn Arabic, some do, some don't. Usually they learn some basic chapters of the Quran to say in the prayers and what they mean in english.

 

I agree. Learning Arabic is strongly encouraged but what usually happens is that people memorize some Arabic without being able to read it but they learn the meaning for their prayers. Then they often learn to read Arabic but are often making the letter sounds without really understanding what they are saying. Some people move beyond that to learning move meaning in the Quran. Beyond that I think very few converts learn conversational or everyday Arabic. 

[Um_2_4]

I think what a lot of people from outside looking in don't understand, is that there are different "schools" that are followed among the Islamic world. I follow one of the schools (Shafi'i, although I studied some others) and am from the Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah and follow Ash'ari.  Some consider that one of the more strict schools, so my answers will come from that aspect, but I will mention what some other schools may do or practice. While the basic beliefs are the same, there are differences in schools with regards to the covering(for men and women), some foods, making contracts, washing for the prayers, etc. 

 

Sometimes I hear, "well I knew a Muslim who did _________________, why don't you?" And the short answer is above.(Yes there is a longer answer depending on the topic :lol:. )

 

So when you ask questions here, you may get answers from all of us because we follow different schools and some are more strict in their adherence to the schools than others.

 

As far as the cultural items, I learned Arabic because that is where I spend my time, my inlaws speak it. I know many converts who don't learn beyond the basics needed for the prayer. That is my choice, I want to understand more in the knowledge and study more. It is not required.

 

HTH someone understand why you may get different answers.

[Amira]

I hope it's all right for me to make an observation instead of asking a question even though I'm not Muslim. One of the things I learned quickly after living in Muslim countries and interacting with Muslims from all over the world is truly how diverse Islam is.

 

We've lived in Kyrgyzstan for several years where most Muslims wouldn't be considered to be very good Muslims by typical standards, but being Muslim is a very important part of nearly everyone's cultural identity there, even if most drink alcohol and almost never fast or go to a mosque. I was talking to some friends of mine yesterday who were thinking that Muslims in Jordan and Saudi Arabia would be similar to each other and had no idea about the historical and doctrinal differences that exist between the two countries. There are many more examples out there.

 

I always find it very interesting to talk to immigrant, expat, and American Muslims in the US to learn about their different backgrounds and to learn more about how they practice their religion. There are many things that can affect any religious group and Islam is no different. Islam in all its diversity is amazing to me and I could never stop learning about it.

[umsami]

Why the separation during prayers and meals?

 

Well, the weird thing about the prayer separation as it does not occur when one makes Hajj (goes to Mecca)…so the holiest place in Islam.  It's also handled differently in the Muslim world.  My favorite, probably would be in Indonesia, where the barrier tends to go down the center, vs. a front/back type scenario.  http://darkroom.baltimoresun.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/AFPGetty-521236267.jpg

 

I think that it's all about modesty and protection, but to a lot of women that doesn't really hold true because in most cases it is definitely separate but not equal.  Usually the more converts, the more second and third generation Muslims, the more equal it is in a mosque in the U.S.  There's actually some movements among Muslims in the US to improve the situation.

 

As for meals, it really depends on the community.  In my experience, the mosques with more Arabic-background people tend to have more separation, so I think it's partially cultural.  For example, if you visit a home in Egypt, they will often have two separate reception rooms…one for men…one for women.  The beauty of this arrangement is that often these rooms are only for visitors, so they stay clean….but other than that, it's still separate.  I've also noticed that women are far different in women-only settings than in mixed.

 

But, i have attended Muslim gatherings where families do eat together, etc…. but it does seem to be more rare.  

[umsami]

Do Muslims evangelize and if not why?

 

If you convert, are you expected to learn Arabic?

 

Is it proper to refer to someone as Muslim or Islamic or are both correct?

 

I think historically Muslims did not evangelize (what we call dawa), but it's become more popular.  You'll see billboards for 1-800-WHY-ISLAM, etc.  Often, however, it's Muslims evangelizing to lapsed Muslims more than to non-Muslims.

 

You do not have to learn Arabic, and what I find strange is that I've met a lot of born Muslims who not only do not know Arabic, they have no idea what they say when they pray means.  Usually, converts will start by learning some common phrases (Assalamu Alaikum… peace be upon you… Bismillah…in the name of Allah…Allahu Akbar…God is greater…etc.)…then they branch out and learn what the prayers mean, etc.  You do not need to learn Arabic, but I've been impressed to meet a few adult converts who not only learned Arabic but also memorized the Quran (it's about the length of the New Testament, so think of memorizing that word for word in Greek (just because there's the different alphabet thing too).).

 

 

Muslim is a noun and a person who follows Islam.  If you want to get technical, you can even say Muslimah for a female Muslim. 

 

Islamic is an adjective, so you'll hear about Islamic Medicine or Islamic architecture or what not.

 

 

On a side note, most Muslim converts these days do not change their names, but in the past it was common.  Hence, why Cat Stevens became Yusuf Islam.  

[OneStepAtATime]

This thread is so informative!  Just wanted to say thanks for all the wonderful explanations and clarification.  I am learning so much.  :thumbup:   

 

Best wishes.

[serendipitous journey]

Define mistreated??? Personally I have not been beaten or physically threatened.

I had a friend whose hijab (head scarf) was ripped off her head by someone at a Walmart and attacked physically. Police were called.

I have been told to "go home" (I am American through and through, in fact part Cherokee, British, Irish and German).

I have been told I was not welcome in a homeschool group (no statement of faith was asked for and they claimed to be "open")

I have been treated unkindly/rudely by service people (waitresses, counter staff, cashiers, hospital staff). Some assumed I would not speak English that well and said things to me or the cashier/nurse next to them that I overheard.

 

I have met some who have been kind/understanding/welcoming, but since I converted almost 20 years ago I have since learned what discrimination means unfortunately.

 

 

Yes, I've had all that too…but not frequent.   By frequent, I would assume a regular experience.  I'd say I have about one or two bad incidents per year.  

 

I agree, though, regarding converting being eye-opening regarding discrimination…. especially since 9/11.  It wasn't as bad before (You were still weird, but not a terrorist.  I wasn't told to go back where I came from, etc.)

 

I am so sorry for this discrimination and this mistreatment. 

 

When I read the comments on hijab, and whether or not it is considered to be required, I was reminded of a homeschooling acquaintance who has decided to remove her hijab for the safety of her children.  She was hiking with the children, and with a non-Muslim friend, when two young men on the trail confronted her very aggressively and completely inappropriately.  They did not lay hands on her, but she and her friend felt it was a near-violent.  Her husband had always had reservations about his wife wearing hijab in the States (when they visit his family in Palestine this is not a concern) and after this was quite adamant that she not wear hijab in public. 

 

She was distressed to not wear hijab and would have taken the risk for herself, but believed it would be wrong, would be non-Islamic, to place her young children in danger. 

 

It must often be true that woman's religious observance in areas of dress is a reflection of many concerns and not solely her own preference.  That it is not entirely dictated by her own calling to such observances. 

[umsami]

Agree a bajillion percent about arab garments!!!

 

And this book is so so very good! Not just for the hijab info, but a little history lesson on modern Egypt :)

http://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Revolution-Resurgence-Middle-America/dp/0300181434/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398485516&sr=8-1&keywords=quiet+revolution

 

Yes! When I saw the link…I thought….hmmm… I wonder if it's Leila Ahmed's book. <3  

 

It really has been interesting to watch the necessity of hijab (for lack of a better term) evolve.  When I first converted, the only people I saw wearing it were people from the Gulf countries, and this was in DC, which has a pretty sizable Muslim population.  It wasn't even an issue/consideration.  Now, it's take the shahadah (basically say the statement of faith), here's your hijab….but even that is changing.  I've seen a few women representing CAIR who didn't wear hijab, which I think is great.  I know other non-hijab wearing women at Muslim orgs.  

[TheBugs]

Are you frequently mistreated by Christians?

No, not frequently. I overhear people saying ignorant things about Islam, Muslims and Sharia a lot, but I don't know what religion they practice, they could be Christian and I will say that I hear it more here in a very conservative Christian area than where I used to live. But I couldn't say that Christians mistreat me. People will ignore me, though. I joined a Christian homeschool group and was basically ignored. In hijab, I have noticed that people will not make eye contact with me and prefer to speak directly to my husband, who looks like a "regular guy".  However, DH was the victim of some unkind gossip at work work. It was ridiculous stuff too, like saying he makes me and DD walk behind him. I joked that that they must have seen us at the grocery store where he will go off ahead knowing exactly what he wants but I meander slowly looking around at everything.

[Rosie_0801]

Can you recommend a good source for developing an understanding of Muslim worldview?  I was a practicing Catholic into my twenties, so I understand that; Bunyan & CS Lewis & Paul Tillich & so on have me pretty solid on Protestantism; my understanding of Judaism and the Jewish perspective is okay.  But I haven't been able to get a good feel for the Muslim spiritual reality, for an Islamic perspective. 

 

Related, any resources for teaching the Islamic holy texts and particularly for memorizing Islamic prayers and passages would be appreciated.  I believe the intent behind our memorization is respectful, because the goal is to grow in our understanding of the ultimate and in our understanding for others.  But if such memorization would be offensive please let me know. 

 

Reading forums and blogs gives a good insight, I find. They are written by Muslims for Muslims, so it is obvious what the participants think they are doing and why.

 

 

I need someone to talk to me about food. (Oh, my inner kitchen witch is coming out!) I have read a bit about alcohol rules, but it seems very unlikely to me that Muslim societies would have *no* traditions of fermented foods.

[umsami]

Can you be 'just' culturally Muslim ?

 

I know plenty of people, for example, who are culturally Jewish but don't practice a faith.

 

Also, I assume someone can be a liberal Muslim, the same way you can be a liberal Christian. What does that look like  ?

 

Absolutely.  There are lots of cultural Muslims.  There are lots of holiday-only Muslims who show up at Eid or during Ramadan.

 

There are liberal/progressive Muslims too.  There used to be the Progressive Muslim Union a few years ago, but I'm not sure what happened to it.  I would probably look like that.  http://mpvusa.org   Of course, historically, Islam was the liberal/progressive religion.  Unfortunately, we've kind of lost that mantle.  

[umsami]

Reading forums and blogs gives a good insight, I find. They are written by Muslims for Muslims, so it is obvious what the participants think they are doing and why.

 

 

I need someone to talk to me about food. (Oh, my inner kitchen witch is coming out!) I have read a bit about alcohol rules, but it seems very unlikely to me that Muslim societies would have *no* traditions of fermented foods.

 

I'm not super knowledgable about fermented foods, but Egypt is known as one of the places where beer originated.  Also, the Turks have raki which is an anise liquor.  Most Middle Eastern countries do a wide variety of torshi, pickled vegetables.  Some can be quite spicy.  

 

The Muslim scientists were very involved in distilling stuff for medicine and stuff.  Hopefully somebody who knows more than me will answer. :)

[Mom in High Heels]

This is an interesting thread.  

 

At what age do girls start covering their heads?  Who decides if they do or don't?   Are there many women who don't want to wear them?  Would you say wearing them has become less common in non-Islamic areas?

 

We went to the Muhammed Ali Mosque in Egypt and it was lovely.  We did wear head scarves out of respect (though our tour guide said it would be okay if we didn't), and took our shoes off.  It was very quiet inside, but I wondered if it wasn't because of all the rugs laid all over the floor.  All the people we met in Egypt were just lovely and so friendly.  It makes me sad that Egyptians and Muslims in general get such a bad rap in the news.

[umsami]

This is an interesting thread.  

 

At what age do girls start covering their heads?  Who decides if they do or don't?   Are there many women who don't want to wear them?  Would you say wearing them has become less common in non-Islamic areas?

 

We went to the Muhammed Ali Mosque in Egypt and it was lovely.  We did wear head scarves out of respect (though our tour guide said it would be okay if we didn't), and took our shoes off.  It was very quiet inside, but I wondered if it wasn't because of all the rugs laid all over the floor.  All the people we met in Egypt were just lovely and so friendly.  It makes me sad that Egyptians and Muslims in general get such a bad rap in the news.

 

Traditionally, girls are supposed to start covering at puberty.  Some Muslim Moms encourage their girls to start when they start school, so it's normal to them.  Others encourage them to start around 10, so it's not blatantly obvious when she gets her first period.  The norm I tend to see in the West is to leave that decision up to the girl, but I'm not going to lie and say that there aren't families where there is a lot of pressure to wear it.  Wearing it can mean more freedom for a girl because her parents will think of her as "good."    Some families actually discourage their daughters from putting on the hijab too soon….either because they don't want them harassed or because they don't want the daughters to feel they were pressured.  It really varies.

 

I'll also say that in my experience (yes, only me), families with Arabic backgrounds tend to want their daughters to cover more than Asian families.  There seems to be more leeway in Asian communities that I'm aware of.

 

In Egypt, from what I can tell, it's very much a fashion thing as well as a religious thing…so definitely peer pressure (to look trendy) plays a part.  There are tons of videos on youtube of teen girls teaching other girls how to pin a certain style, etc.   Example…. 

[umsami]

OK, I've got my courage up now to ask the next question....

 

How do you suggest handling discomfort as a non-Muslim over the niquab ?

 

There are women in our area who wear it. I'll be honest. It upsets me. I have an emotional reaction to a woman covering herself completely, whether or not she chose to do so ( and honestly, I question how free that choice is ).

 

Sometimes I think that the only way to deal with that is to get to know women in niquab, but how do I do that ?

 

It isn't so much the covering, as the gendered covering, if that makes sense.

 

Hopefully, there's a niqabi on here who can answer. :)

 

Honestly, I'm a little taken aback too.  Among Muslim communities where I've lived, it has not been the norm.  I knew one woman who covered and it was because she had been the victim of an attack in her home country.  Her face had been burned by acid I think, and basically she felt that the stares from niqab were nowhere near what she would have experienced if she did not cover her face. :(  But I have to admit that I haven't had a lot of experience with niqabis.  I've been in women only situations where they keep their niqabs on, and I've been in women-only situations where they do not.  In some cultures it is very common, and in others it is extremely rare.  

 

As for talking with her, start with a smile or saying "hi" or if you want to try saying "Assalamu Alaikum"  (you can pronounce it like salam a-lay-kum).  As a plain ol' hijab wearing Muslim, a smile goes very far with me. :)

[umsami]

Somebody asked me in a PM about polygamy and also Aisha's age at marriage.  These are common questions, even among Muslims. :)

 

 

So, both of these things Muslims have issues with as well…especially the Aisha thing. :)

 

But, regarding polygamy, in general it was allowed because of wars and there not being enough men to go around.  Prophet Muhammad was married to his first wife exclusively and happily (according to both) for 25 years.  She was older than him.  Traditions say that she was 40 and he was 25…but know that exact dating wasn't the greatest back in the 7th century…and that in the Middle East, 40 often means a lot.  (It rained for 40 days and nights…Ali Baba and the 40 thieves…etc.)  SO was she exactly 40? No idea…but she was definitely older, a successful business woman, etc.  After her, pretty much all of his wives were widows or divorcees.  The only wife that did not fit that bill was Aisha…and to be honest…it annoys me to no end when Muslims say that allowing a guy to marry a 9 year old is "sunnah" (tradition of the Prophet), when there is far more evidence for the tradition of marrying divorcees and widows, than young girls.

 

The Qur'an put the limit at four wives, with the stipulation that the guy had to treat each of his wives equally.  Some scholars say that is pretty much impossible, thus, polygamy is not allowed.  Others say, that as long as they are treated materially the same…and have the same access to marital relations…then it's fine.   Some scholars say that a first wife has the right to approve of any subsequent wives or be given a divorce.  Many Muslim women put that in their nikkah (marriage contract).  

 

It can definitely be abused, but the actual practice seems to vary by location.  It is not common in most countries as far as I know.  

 

There is also the concept of a muta or temporary marriage, but I think that is mainly in Shi'a circles.  Basically, instead of getting married until a divorce…one gets married for a set period of time…so one night…three months…seven years…etc.  Some feel that it is basically licensed prostitution, others think it's a good way for younger people to experiment with s e x without being tied down forever.  Unfortunately, the children that may result from these marriages can suffer.  I'm not aware of these happening in the US…but I'm sure they do.  (Polygamous marriages happen here too, but are, as far as I know, rare).

 

As to Aisha, as the mother of a six year old girl, oh boy do I have issues with it.  I don't care who the heck some guy says he was he would not get my daughter as a bed partner.  I don't buy the cultural arguments, although yes, in general, marriage was OK once somebody hit puberty. (And that's the story with Aisha…she was engaged at some say 6…and it was consummated when she hit 9 and got her period.)  I think that if Prophet Muhammad was really a pedophile, then the vast majority of his wives would have been young girls.  After all, if I'm the Prophet, I can do and say what I please, right?  But in looking at his numerous marriages, we have:

1) First marriage…to an older woman…25 years…both very happy by all accounts

2) Second wife…. divorcee….55 years old (about his age)

3) Third wife…Aisha… young girl…friend of the family so to speak

4) Fourth-sixth wives….war widows…in their late teens and twenties from all I've read

Etc.

 

There are some who have written about how Aisha must have been mistaken about her own age (once again not improbable) based on the dates/events she remembered, and that she was probably in her teens.  Honestly, I don't know. http://www.islamicity.com/articles/articles.asp?ref=ic0811-3718

 

 Regardless, the marriage to her is used by many to justify pedophilia which is completely wrong.  Also, in Islam, a woman must consent to her own marriage…and one can argue that a 9 year old (or 12 year old for that matter) can't knowingly consent to marriage.  Iran does have such a law, but still, the average age of women to marry is 22.  So…honestly, I think that even if Islam "allows it", very few fathers are going to give their daughters away.  Unfortunately, those who do, usually sell their daughters because of poverty. Saudis are famous for coming to Egypt in the summer time and arranging temporary marriages to young girls for the summer.  It makes me want to vomit.

 

[idnib]

Hmmm. I don't find naqabis upsetting if I see them on the street or anything (rare in my city.) I think it would be difficult for a non-Muslim to get to know them; they tend to be very insular, at least around here.

 

My cousin wears a niqab. She was raised with average conservatism. She married into a more conservative family, but even the women in that family don't wear niqab. She just became more conservative and kept going. She even wears gloves. I personally find this all highly unnecessary.  Her husband made a point of telling everyone this was not at his request and he had discouraged it, and I believe him; she has far surpassed the covering of his own mother and sisters. She and my father got into a fight because she wouldn't take it off in front of him and he found that insulting because he had known her from when she was born and would now, presumably never see her face again. It's an odd situation. We used to eat in a mixed family group but after she covered her face we now separate out so she won't have to eat alone. My dad says we're enabling her.  :unsure:

[unsinkable]

umsami,

 

Who is in your avatar and what does the caption read?

 

Also, I read a book I'm pretty sure was called the Freedom of the Veil but I'm having trouble tracking it down. Does it sound familiar?