Would you say anything to friend?

[indigomama]

I have a friend, who I don't live close to and our main contact is facebook nowadays. She has recently shared that she is getting married. But I am a little concerned.

 

The man lives in another country. (eta: very economically depressed country)

He proposed 4 days after meeting her!

She accepted 2 days later because she felt God's leading her.

She left the country the same day and they have not seen each other since.

They are getting married, very soon.( ETA: having known each other less than 6 months). She will go to his country for one month, then come back to the states without him until they can get him a visa, which she thinks will take 6-9 months.

 

While we are no longer close, I still consider her a friend and I don't want her to get hurt. I just see so many red flags. So, would you say something or not?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mini-update: I've talked to some people closer to her about my concerns. They said she is aware of how things seem, but she is determined to go through with it. Unfortunately, in her circle, if one mentions, "God's leading", or "His direction", very few question things further.

 

I hope and pray for the best for her. And this is one time when I hope I am completely wrong about something.

 

[Unicorn.]

Are you willing to risk losing her as a friend by saying something? If so, then yes, I would say something. I agree with you about the red flags, if that makes you feel better. Kind of scary, if you think about it.

[unsinkable]

Nope nope nope nope

 

Say something.

 

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts he's using her.

[indigomama]

I don't want to hurt her, and really I don't think she'd listen. I just feel don't want her hurt, or regretting life long complications from a very quick decision. 

[Ottakee]

In this situation I would warn her.  SOunds like he is using her to get into this country.

[Tangerine]

I can't imagine it would help.  If you knew something she didn't, maybe.  As it is, I think even one's closest advisers usually are disregarded when it comes to new love.

[umsami]

My guess is you wouldn't be the first to raise the subject.  There's quite a good likelihood that after a month in his country the marriage will not survive.  i would encourage her to register at the US embassy when she arrives.  Also, I'm not sure how accurate her timeframe on getting a visa for him is.

 

Has she met his family? Is it possible she could stay with a sister or Aunt for a week when she arrives before the marriage?

[indigomama]

My guess is you wouldn't be the first to raise the subject.  There's quite a good likelihood that after a month in his country the marriage will not survive.  i would encourage her to register at the US embassy when she arrives.  Also, I'm not sure how accurate her timeframe on getting a visa for him is.

 

Has she met his family? Is it possible she could stay with a sister or Aunt for a week when she arrives before the marriage?

 

 

I'm not sure if she's met his family, or if he has any. She will get married almost immediately after arriving. 

 

I know that she is hiding the whole thing from some people, so I think she's only told those who she thinks will be okay with everything. 

[unsinkable]

I'm not sure if she's met his family, or if he has any. She will get married almost immediately after arriving.

 

I know that she is hiding the whole thing from some people, so I think she's only told those who she thinks will be okay with everything.

OMGosh.

 

How old is she? Has she seen any Lifetime movies?

[HS Mom in NC]

Yes, privately.

I'd say it as objectivey as possible and then not bring it up again unless she does.

I think even the very slim possibility that she might listen far more important than  the possibility of the pain of entering into a marriage in such a wreckless way.  If I lost her as a friend then at least I would know I did the right thing with the best of intentions.  Sometimes you just have to do the hard thing and live with the fall out.

[Catwoman]

I think you should at least try to warn her. Even if she doesn't listen, your conscience will be clear and she will never be able to approach you later (after the marriage has failed and he has taken her money and used her to get himself into the country,) and yell at you for never having warned her.

 

She sounds desperate to me, and this guy definitely sounds like a man who is looking for a victim.

[Butter]

Oh, my.  I'd say something, fully realizing your friendship may end because of it.  And she likely won't listen.

[indigomama]

OMGosh.

 

How old is she? Has she seen any Lifetime movies?

 

 

She is in her mid 30's. I think that is part of the issue. She has been part of a community, where almost all of her friends married young, and now have families, and I think she really wants that. 

[craftymama]

I would say something.  I never want to be the friend who didn't say what needed to be said.  If the friendship is strong we will survive, if not at least I know I did the right thing.  And sometimes, the friendship will come back around.  I would not assume someone else will or has said something. 

[indigomama]

So, most people seem to think I should say something. I am just curious, does everyone think it sounds as crazy, as I think it does? Or does anyone think that there is not cause for worry?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Warn her but realize that she is an adult and will make her own decision.  If she's hiding it, then she most likely knows the arguments against it and has already decided to do it.  

[Butter]

So, most people seem to think I should say something. I am just curious, does everyone think it sounds as crazy, as I think it does? Or does anyone think that there is not cause for worry?

 

Absolutely and totally crazy.  Most definitely cause for worry!

[Catwoman]

So, most people seem to think I should say something. I am just curious, does everyone think it sounds as crazy, as I think it does? Or does anyone think that there is not cause for worry?

Totally, completely, absolutely, 100% crazy. And then some.

 

For all she knows, he's a serial killer.

 

He is most certainly not in love with her and I have no doubt in my mind that he is using her.

[Flowing Brook]

I would say something to her.  If her reasoning is she's in her thirties and this is her only chance. Maybe you could encourage her it is better to never marry than to marry the wrong person.

 

I know of a couple that the man went to Germany for a month. Knew after a week that a girl he met was to be his wife. They met twice, emailed back and fourth three times, spent a week together, then married.  They have now been happily married for ten years.  I would not share this story with friend but just to give you encouragement that maybe it is not all bad.  I hope your friend makes the right decision. 

[Catwoman]

Do you know her family? Could you let them know what is going on?

 

I'm normally firmly in the MYOB camp, but in this case, your friend could be ruining her life -- and the man could be dangerous.

[Hoot]

I guess I'm in the minority in that I wouldn't say a word.  If she's in her mid-thirties, then she is old enough to already know anything you might have to offer.  The fact that you are no longer close makes it even more probable that she won't listen to your concerns in the first place.  Those who are actually close to her have probably already mentioned the very things that raise red flags to you.  If she is already hiding the news from those she thinks may oppose her, then she already knows on some level that it all sounds very fishy.  But, it all comes down to the fact that she is an adult and this is her business.  She sounds desperate and desperation makes people do stupid things, but she is an adult and needs to be in control of her own choices.  If that choice leads to heartbreak, even if you didn't "warn" her, it is still not on your head.  She is an adult capable of thought and reason.  It is her choice whether to use it or not.  Those choices all have consequences and she must accept them as her own whether they are good or bad.    

[indigomama]

I would say something to her.  If her reasoning is she's in her thirties and this is her only chance. Maybe you could encourage her it is better to never marry than to marry the wrong person.

 

I know of a couple that the man went to Germany for a month. Knew after a week that a girl he met was to be his wife. They met twice, emailed back and fourth three times, spent a week together, then married.  They have now been happily married for ten years.  I would not share this story with friend but just to give you encouragement that maybe it is not all bad.  I hope your friend makes the right decision. 

 

 

I hope this doesn't sound bad, but it's not like she met this guy in a country like Germany. This is a very very poor third world country, and I just think that adds to my uneasiness. 

[Flowing Brook]

I hope this doesn't sound bad, but it's not like she met this guy in a country like Germany. This is a very very poor third world country, and I just think that adds to my uneasiness. 

 

You don't  sound bad at all. I'd be super worried to. I think she is being very foolish. I hope sincerly she  changes her mind. I guess I was trying to offer some hope.  It is probably a train wreck but theres a sliver of a chance it's not. I'm just hoping for that sliver for your friend if she decides to go through with it. Which I sincerly hope she does not.

[trulycrabby]

Warn her! I believe this is an instance where it is worth risking the friendship. Hopefully if enough people voice their concerns, she will open her eyes and see what is happening. :grouphug:

[wintermom]

I agree that she probably won't listen to you, but I'd say something anyway. And since she brought "God leading her" into it, I'd suggest strongly to her that she discuss these marriage plans with her pastor. Hopefully he/she would be able to encourage her to take a year or two to get to know this man (after he moves to the US on his own).

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I might refrain from saying anything if I knew others already had in an effort to keep communication lines open. Having had a friend in this kind of situation before I am glad that she hadn't shut me out yet and felt comfortable asking for help when she needed it later.

[HS Mom in NC]

Yes, it sounds crazy.

 

1. It's a short period of time no matter where he's from.

2. Most Christians I know would not act so quickly on "feeling God's calling" even if they felt it.  They would think it through even if they had that feeling.

3. She isn't telling other people which means she's trying to avoid possible confrontation-a bad sign.  If it is a good thing, unwarranted disapproval (like racism) is something she would be preapared to deal with.

4. Marrying anyone from a different culture requires thought and a thorough understanding of differences and how to address them.  Not something you do in a very short period of time.

5. This isn't behavior characteristic of a woman in her mid 30s-it's something a late teen/early 20 year old would do.  Is something else mentally/emotionally going on with her?

 

I got married after dating my husband for 6 months.  We spent a lot of time discussing our expectations of finances, parenting, lifestyle, and relgious views in great detail. We spent time with our pastor.  Our families knew each other and spent time together . I was 20 and he was 26.  I'm not categorically against people who knew each other for a short period of time getting married, but what they do with that time is a big indicator of how much they've thought it through.

[Sara in AZ]

I would say something to her. If her reasoning is she's in her thirties and this is her only chance. Maybe you could encourage her it is better to never marry than to marry the wrong person.

 

I know of a couple that the man went to Germany for a month. Knew after a week that a girl he met was to be his wife. They met twice, emailed back and fourth three times, spent a week together, then married. They have now been happily married for ten years. I would not share this story with friend but just to give you encouragement that maybe it is not all bad. I hope your friend makes the right decision.

I think it's totally crazy, and I would definitely try to get my friend to talk through it with me as much as she was willing to.

 

Like Puddles, I have a friend who did something similarly crazy in her mid twenties. She met a guy on line from Bulgaria. They really clicked, after a very short time of communicating on line (I don't remember exactly. A few months I want to say) flew to Bulgaria WITH her sister's wedding dress just in case. They totally hit it off and got married there. I felt like maybe there was enough time before the wedding for her mother to fly over for it, but not more than a month or so. He's an awesome guy, he converted to her religion, and they've been married now for eight or nine years. However, my friend had lived in that country, understood the culture, and was fluent in the language. And even so, while their relationship is strong, it has been rough trying to establish a life in the States together. His English was very limited at first, finding a good job for him has been very challenging. There are MIL issues. So even while they were both sincere and compatible, it hasn't been easy. I'm sure your friend hasn't had time to think ahead that much, so hopefully you can throw some ideas out for her to consider even though you probably can't change her mind.

[Kerileanne99]

I agree, say something.

 

BUT...if her mind is made up, try to convince her to have him come HERE to be married on a regular tourist VISA...better yet, apply for the Fiancé VISA whilst here. My hubby is British, an this is what we did. It took the better part of a year, with him living in the UK and me in the US. That way there is plenty of time for her to change her mind!

 

I actually think applying for a VISA the other way around hurts your application, if I remember correctly, as it jumps out at immigration. If you can't convince her that this isn't a misunderstood, true-love issue, lol, approach her on pocketbook and logistics!

[Susan in TN]

If nothing else, perhaps engage her in a (private) conversation about how the met, what she loves about him and vice versa, what their differences are (religious, political, views on children), his occupation, his family, etc, etc. at least to open lines of communication and possibly to let her know you are a safe haven if she ever needs one.

[Reefgazer]

I would say something, but not directly, nor would I tell her she is making a bad choice because it's really not my decision to make or to judge.  That's not to say I wouldn't have concerns (I also see the red flags you do, and potentially dangerous ones at that).  I would say something in a very indirect way by asking questions and by trying to lead her into making her own more careful and wiser decisions.  If she refused to be lead, refused to entertain the questions, or disagreed, I would not say any more.

[abba12]

I am not against quick marriages, I was engaged within 3 months of meeting my husband and don't regret it a bit. But there's too many other red flags here, It definitely sounds like a scam to me.

 

Having said that, I find myself more inclined not to say anything provided you know her closer friends/family are doing so. She obviously knows it's fishy if she's hiding things, and people who know the situation much better than you are hopefully already weighing in. 

 

If you choose to say something I agree with pushing for him to come to america to marry, and getting a fiance visa etc.

[Lanny]

I don't know what country the man lives in, but I believe the Consular Section of the U.S. Embassy in that country, and those who process the application in the USA, would probably take one VERY LONG AND HARD LOOK at the visa application for a Fiancee Visa or a Visa for a brand new spouse. It might or might not be approved, depending upon the information the applicants provide to the Consular Section. She can probably send the Visa Section of that U.S. Embassy an email and ask them for guidance, based on her situation of only knowing him for a very short time, etc. I believe she would need to hire an experienced Immigration Attorney, to help with this process, if there is an initial rejection of the visa application.   GL to your friend!

[Lanny]

I agree, say something.

 

BUT...if her mind is made up, try to convince her to have him come HERE to be married on a regular tourist VISA...better yet, apply for the Fiancé VISA whilst here. My hubby is British, an this is what we did. It took the better part of a year, with him living in the UK and me in the US. That way there is plenty of time for her to change her mind!

 

I actually think applying for a VISA the other way around hurts your application, if I remember correctly, as it jumps out at immigration. If you can't convince her that this isn't a misunderstood, true-love issue, lol, approach her on pocketbook and logistics!

 

I am almost positive that if someone went to the USA on a Tourist (B1/B2) Visa, with the intention of getting married, while in the USA, and then they applied for a Spousal Visa,  that would be considered Visa Fraud.  At the least, I suspect the new spouse would need to return to their home country, until the Visa process was completed and the  Spousal Visa granted.

 

The legal (and safest, IMHO) way for your friend to do this would be for her to apply for a Fiancee Visa for him, have him come to the USA, if the Fiancee Visa is issued, and after living with him for some months, either get married or end it, whichever seems  appropriate to her.

 

With regard to him getting a Tourist (B1/B2) Visa, he would need to be able to qualify, on his own, for that. U.S. law requires the U.S. Consul to assume Visa Fraud, when people are applying for a B1/B2 Visa to visit for Tourism or Business...  They must assume that the applicant plans to violate the visa...

[indigomama]

I don't know the details of the VISA process for them. I know he couldn't come here now. That is why she is going there to get married. And she is coming back to the states to work and try and get him here. I am also concerned that they might rush children, to perhaps boost chances of getting him a VISA. 

 

I'm too far to talk to her in person. I am going to contact some people who are more involved and ask if anyone has shared concerns and warnings with her. But she leaves in less than a week.

[QueenCat]

I'd be concerned that she wouldn't be allowed to leave his home once she married him. He could be tricking her into marrying him, and keeping her there.

[DawnM]

I have a friend in somewhat this same situation and I am very concerned about her.  However, her family has already talked to her until they are blue in the face and she is not listening.  She isn't angry at them, just not listening.

 

Are you sure her loved ones haven't already shared their concerned in this matter to her?

[umsami]

Is it her culture or his to have arranged marriages?  Is it normal for engagements to be short?

 

If so, is there any sort of bridal representation required? Like in Muslim marriages, there is a wali who would negotiate on behalf of the bride, check out the groom more in depth, etc.

 

Some warning signs….http://www.imarriedanalien.com/?p=19

 

 

[Kerileanne99]

I am almost positive that if someone went to the USA on a Tourist (B1/B2) Visa, with the intention of getting married, while in the USA, and then they applied for a Spousal Visa, that would be considered Visa Fraud. At the least, I suspect the new spouse would need to return to their home country, until the Visa process was completed and the Spousal Visa granted.

 

The legal (and safest, IMHO) way for your friend to do this would be for her to apply for a Fiancee Visa for him, have him come to the USA, if the Fiancee Visa is issued, and after living with him for some months, either get married or end it, whichever seems appropriate to her.

 

With regard to him getting a Tourist (B1/B2) Visa, he would need to be able to qualify, on his own, for that. U.S. law requires the U.S. Consul to assume Visa Fraud, when people are applying for a B1/B2 Visa to visit for Tourism or Business... They must assume that the applicant plans to violate the visa...

Absolutely, I should have clarified he would have to return to his country for the duration. And the fact that he wouldn't 'be able to come here' would be an additional bonus.

Also, there are specific requirements for the Fiancé VISA as far as financial and legal obligations to her officially sponsoring him. All of these are roadblocks that may allow her time to either get to know him better or 'really' get to know him better.

Even if the Fiancé ViSA were granted, they STiLL would have 90 days after he arrived in country (after nearly a year at least waiting for it!) to get married.

 

Also...going through the ViSA process prior to marriage (providing she does it in the suggested order) will ensure background checks and health checks!

[indigomama]

Is it her culture or his to have arranged marriages?  Is it normal for engagements to be short?

 

If so, is there any sort of bridal representation required? Like in Muslim marriages, there is a wali who would negotiate on behalf of the bride, check out the groom more in depth, etc.

 

Some warning signs….http://www.imarriedanalien.com/?p=19

 

 

No, not in either cultures. We have several mutual friends that have married cross-culturally, and all seem to have strong marriages. And most, but not all live outside the US. But none have happened so fast or been such extreme differences: education, finances, general upbringing, etc. 

[Amira]

I really like Sara's suggestion above of a different way to approach this. Instead of telling her she's crazy (and she has to realize this sounds crazy if she's hiding it from people), I think it's a good idea to help her think through some very real situations that might come up. What if he can't get a US visa for a long time? What if her future MIL has unbearable expectations of her? What if she wants to fly home for a visit but doesn't have enough money to do that? What about medical care while she's living there? Where will she live in the new country before and after the wedding? How does his family feel about the whole thing? Will she be allowed to work there or stay indefinitely? There are so many more things to think about that just the marriage itself.

[Seasider]

Good grief, is she the only person on the planet that hasn't seen Frozen?

[SorrelZG]

A host of proverbs from the Bible come to mind on patient planning vs. hasty actions and the wisdom of listening to counselors. Since she thinks this is of God, I would also appeal to those Scriptures to encourage her to at least slow down.

[Hoot]

Good grief, is she the only person on the planet that hasn't seen Frozen?

*raises hand*

I still haven't seen it.

[Cammie]

Clearly many people close to her must have pointed out the problems with this situation.

 

I think I would congratulate her, tell her you are hoping for the best, etc.  If and when things go south she is not likely to turn to someone who might say "I told you so."

[mom@shiloh]

Three of my dds are in their early 30's and if this was one of mine, I would hope that someone would go to the airport and bodily prevent her from getting on the plane.  This is not a good situation.  Do/say whatever you can to talk her out of it.  

[catz]

Three of my dds are in their early 30's and if this was one of mine, I would hope that someone would go to the airport and bodily prevent her from getting on the plane. This is not a good situation. Do/say whatever you can to talk her out of it.

Hmmm ... I would expect that to be me as a parent or at least a real life close friend. Yes, this situation sounds sketchy. But with someone in their 30s that i was just connected to on facebook and not speaking to regularly, I would not get involved without being asked for advice.

[Lanny]

Good grief, is she the only person on the planet that hasn't seen Frozen?

 There are at least 2 people who have not seen Frozen. I'm the other one...

[Lanny]

Years ago, my wife and I helped several couples we knew get Fiancee Visas for the women, who were here in Colombia. None of them needed to hire an Immigration Attorney.  One of them was a woman that I almost married, and then, later, to my astonishment, 1 or 2 years later,  I introduced her to a man I knew. He got her a Fiancee Visa, she went to the states and lived with him, and after 6 months or whatever, they got married and they are still married.  One was for the woman who introduced my wife and me. They are divorced now. And the other was for a woman we knew in a place we went to for photo processing, before we bought a Digital camera.

 

Approximately 4 or 5 years ago, I attended a "Town Hall" meeting put on by the Consular Section, in Cali. Three (3) people came to Cali for that meeting, from the U.S. Embassy: (1) The Consul (2) The head of the Visa Fraud Section and (3) Someone from the ACS (American Citizen Services section).   Much of that meeting, which lasted several hours, had to do with Passport issues and with Visa issues. They explained that they know that Overseas Americans receive questions, from family, friends and acquaintances, about U.S. Visas, and they spent a lot of time on that. I remember there were 1 or 2 people there who had lost their "Permanent Residence" in the USA, because they had come to Colombia to take care of an elderly parent, stayed out of the USA too long, and lost their Residency in the USA because of that. 

 

That the OP mentioned that her friend is planning to fly from the USA in a week, is very troubling, because the OP and others do not have time to try to convince the OP to take this slowly and to investigate the issues. As PP have mentioned, her getting a Visa of any kind for this man is probably going to be expensive and will probably take many months, if not one or 2 years. Having met someone who was the head of the Visa Fraud section in one of the most active U.S. Embassies in the world, I can only imagine the scrutiny that is going to occur, when she applies for a visa for her brand new Husband...

 

This is quoted from a web page of the Visa Section of the U.S. Embassy in Bogota, Colombia:

"Fraud Prevention Unit

The Fraud Prevention Unit investigates any incidents of fraud in visa applications and provides information to visa applicants about possible fraudulent scams."

 

If the woman involved in this would contact the Immigrant Visa section in the U.S. Embassy in the country involved, BEFORE marrying this man, she can gain some insight into what is involved. Just looking on the web site of the U.S. Embassy there will provide her with information she may not have at this time. Her getting an Immigrant Visa for her new husband, after marrying him, is probably not guaranteed. 

I know of one American woman who married a Colombian man and when she went back to the states, she brought back the ultimate "souvenir",  a husband...  She was a teacher in the school where DD attended K4, K5 and First grade and I believe he was also a teacher there. They didn't just know each other for a few days when they got married and I'm sure there were no problems when she applied for the Spousal Visa for him. 

[Word Nerd]

Warn her but realize that she is an adult and will make her own decision. If she's hiding it, then she most likely knows the arguments against it and has already decided to do it.

This is my impression, but I would still say something out of concern. You won't be telling her anything she doesn't already know, but it might confirm any doubts she may be having but has talked herself out of.