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What's up with Wuthering Heights?

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If I remember correctly, Richard Adams says something similar about Watership Down. Didn't Tolkien also say much the same about Lord of the Rings? (Or maybe I was just hoping he did... :lol: )

 

Yeah, he has this whole thing about how the author doesn't matter, and don't look for allegory or worry about the historical context, or look for connections to other/previous lit, just enjoy the story!

 

It kind of put a damper on the Tolkien study I had been planning . . .  :huh:  :laugh:  :lol:

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Yeah, he has this whole thing about how the author doesn't matter, and don't look for allegory or worry about the historical context, or look for connections to other/previous lit, just enjoy the story!

 

It kind of put a damper on the Tolkien study I had been planning . . .  :huh:  :laugh:  :lol:

 

I always giggle when I hear of people doing Tolkien studies... :laugh:

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And if the author wants to say something in their books, they will tell you about it.  Probably in a preface or notes at the end of the book.  Or a preface to a later book.  

Finding what the author wanted to say should be like an Easter Egg hunt setup for 3 year olds.  

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Right! Like somebody else said - you find what you bring to the story.  What you see always depends on what else you have read, maybe especially what you've read recently, what's going on in your world, etc.  I think this is such a big selling point of having kids read widely, and sometimes assigning things (not always) - the more you have participated in the conversation, the more it makes sense to you and the more you have to offer.

 

Honestly, the way I choose my reading these days - when I'm not specifically pre-reading for the girls' lessons - is to try to read or re-read the books that have bubbled up to the surface for whatever reason, that are referred to around me, or that I know I missed the first time around - like WH - and I read them partly because I want to know what people are talking about, I want to understand the allusions, I want to enrich the contents of my own mental library so that I can have a deeper appreciation of the conversation.  So many things that get mentioned here, and I realize, how is it I never read that? so I do - in fact, Woodland, you are to blame for me recently reading Bleak House, it was your comments about that book in passing as part of another conversation that made me realize, wait a minute, that's another book I haven't read! Get on it!

 

I guess I'm saying that I know my kids will barely scratch the surface of what's out there while they are under my roof, so the best thing I can give them is an invitation to the conversation, and the tools they will need to be a part of it.  Where they go with it is up to them, and they have the rest of their lives to take part! But I think I need to provide them with some basic skills - vocabulary, deep reading/annotation - and some basic knowledge - historical context, literary terms & techniques - and then a bunch of background content - myths & legends, bible stories, shakespeare - so that they have the tools to read for enjoyment and understanding for the rest of their lives.

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I would love to hear how you compiled your list of choices! Are there resources that were helpful to you? I have a few (including TWTM), but I am open to additional resources. :)

 

For American Lit, I have an anthology -- Adventures in American Literature.   I use that as a spine and arrange my list chronologically based on it. I'll include poems and short stories from the text as well as novels from each time period.  The final list ends up being way too long for any kid to read in a year, so they pick and choose from it with some required works in each genre/time period.

 

For AP Lit, students must choose from this list: http://mseffie.com/AP/APtitles.html.  

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And if the author wants to say something in their books, they will tell you about it.  Probably in a preface or notes at the end of the book.  Or a preface to a later book.  

Finding what the author wanted to say should be like an Easter Egg hunt setup for 3 year olds.  

 

This reminds me of a particular song that evoked curiosity as to the meaning behind it and inspiration for writing it. The song writer gave different meanings and inspirations at different concerts and interviews. In the end, maybe she didn't even know what she was trying to say in the lyrics. Or maybe her own relationship with the song evolved over time.

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I loved WH as a youth.  It was so dark!!  I need to re-read it as an adult thanks to this thread.

 

I will assign it to my kids because I think there is value in reading a book everyone has read; does that make sense??  When people talk about Heathcliff and Catherine, I want my kids to be able to know who they are and what they are referring to.

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I loved WH as a youth.  It was so dark!!  I need to re-read it as an adult thanks to this thread.

 

I will assign it to my kids because I think there is value in reading a book everyone has read; does that make sense??  When people talk about Heathcliff and Catherine, I want my kids to be able to know who they are and what they are referring to.

 

It totally makes sense! That's why I read it.  That's what I was groping for upthread when I was blathering about the great conversation!  

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I will assign it to my kids because I think there is value in reading a book everyone has read; does that make sense??  When people talk about Heathcliff and Catherine, I want my kids to be able to know who they are and what they are referring to.

 

But, wouldn't you need to assign every classic then? And every movie, book, etc. to make sure they catch every reference? What about the great science "classics"? Do you assign all those? I'm also not convinced everyone has read Wuthering Heights. Also, there are many references I understand quite well even if I haven't read the book, either because I'm familiar with the storyline and characters or because the reference is made so often it became one I even started using myself, despite not having read the book. ;)

 

My point isn't that you shouldn't assign WH to your children, especially if that is a reference you think is vital for them to understand the first time they encounter it. My point is that there is no way we can read all the books people have read and will reference during our lives. It's OK if we don't know it the first time.

 

One of my favorite memories is reading a fleeting reference to an obscure Gothic novel in another book I was reading. I was able to track down the novel. I loved the whole process! No harm, no foul that I had never even heard of it when I first read about it.

 

 

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This reminds me of a particular song that evoked curiosity as to the meaning behind it and inspiration for writing it. The song writer gave different meanings and inspirations at different concerts and interviews. In the end, maybe she didn't even know what she was trying to say in the lyrics. Or maybe her own relationship with the song evolved over time.

I made the mistake of finding a forum that had song lyrics and discussed meanings. Intrigued, I looked up some of my favorite songs. After reading the lyrics and finding out what some songs are really about, some of my favorite songs were nearly ruined. :mellow: Now, I'm a little more careful about which songs I look up. ;)

 

 

 

 

Edited: Gah! What is up with my grammar lately?! I keep rereading what I write and it just sounds awful. I suppose it could be the fact that I'm interrupted every couple of sentences by my talker who must tell me a lengthy reason he chose orange juice instead of apple. :001_rolleyes:

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I wonder too if it's a bit self-selecting, these ideas about the importance of catching literary references. We find it important and surround ourselves with others who do as well. Not everyone makes literary references, though. Does that make their references less important to know?

 

Have you ever had the experience of being with a group of people that have different lifestyles and interests than you have? You have trouble understanding many of their references simply because you don't live in their world. You don't laugh at the jokes, don't have a contribution to the jovial banter, don't feel like you belong... Does that mean you should track down all those references? Does that mean you should become one of them and move into their world?

 

I personally usually just like to sit back and think--Who knew???? People are so amazing!!!!!!!

 

In other words, we could spend a lifetime making sure we understand every reference people make about all subjects there are to make references to. Or we can focus on what draws us and speaks to us, picking up new ideas along the way, but always leaving something behind. There is so much in life that has the potential to speak to us if we just open ourselves.

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It just occurred to me that this thread is a perfect example. Do we have hundreds of different contributors? Either many, many people haven't read WH or they're just not feeling the love talking about it. Either way, it is interesting...

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I totally get the everyone has read it part...but I also think it's only because sometimes I think of the Hive as everyone lol... and not the people I meet IRL.

 

I only wish everyone IRL has read WH or any lit book for that matter...it's disappointing sometimes to want to discuss a book and realize that someone who I think should have read it hasn't and that's still totally okay but worse, isn't at all interested to discuss any book for that matter. There are people I know who don't read English well but are still curious enough as 30-50+ year olds to want to know more about lit (I love that kind of curiosity...the kind when you know that you don't know everything) and other people who just don't care for any discussion of any type, and not just discussions about books.

 

I have to stop thinking of the Hive as everyone...lol. One reason I feel so comfortable hanging out here is that I can talk about these things with you guys and also realize how much I don't know from you guys and that it's okay to not know and that I can go find out and that's part of what learning is about.

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...

Have you ever had the experience of being with a group of people that have different lifestyles and interests than you have? You have trouble understanding many of their references simply because you don't live in their world. You don't laugh at the jokes, don't have a contribution to the jovial banter, don't feel like you belong... Does that mean you should track down all those references? Does that mean you should become one of them and move into their world?...

 

I have had that experience, but it was more in having to edit myself.  I have a graduate engineering degree, and most of my fellow students didn't read the same kid's books as I did.  So, I had to stop myself from making references to childhood literature, like the Emperor's Clothes.  Sometimes literary references are a vivid way of quickly getting across an idea.  But not if the other person hasn't read the story.  

 

I loved Mythology as a kid.  One of the very important books was written because people weren't reading the myths in Greek or Latin and therefore were missing the literary references to myths.  So, he basically wrote a Cliff's Notes of myths.  

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I wonder too if it's a bit self-selecting, these ideas about the importance of catching literary references. We find it important and surround ourselves with others who do as well. Not everyone makes literary references, though. Does that make their references less important to know?

 

Have you ever had the experience of being with a group of people that have different lifestyles and interests than you have? You have trouble understanding many of their references simply because you don't live in their world. You don't laugh at the jokes, don't have a contribution to the jovial banter, don't feel like you belong... Does that mean you should track down all those references? Does that mean you should become one of them and move into their world?

 

I personally usually just like to sit back and think--Who knew???? People are so amazing!!!!!!!

 

In other words, we could spend a lifetime making sure we understand every reference people make about all subjects there are to make references to. Or we can focus on what draws us and speaks to us, picking up new ideas along the way, but always leaving something behind. There is so much in life that has the potential to speak to us if we just open ourselves.

 

Yeah, you are pretty much describing most of my interactions IRL!!!!

 

I really wish I could hang out with all you guys.  :crying:

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I totally get the everyone has read it part...but I also think it's only because sometimes I think of the Hive as everyone lol... and not the people I meet IRL.

 

I only wish everyone IRL has read WH or any lit book for that matter...it's disappointing sometimes to want to discuss a book and realize that someone who I think should have read it hasn't and that's still totally okay but worse, isn't at all interested to discuss any book for that matter. There are people I know who don't read English well but are still curious enough as 30-50+ year olds to want to know more about lit (I love that kind of curiosity...the kind when you know that you don't know everything) and other people who just don't care for any discussion of any type, and not just discussions about books.

 

I have to stop thinking of the Hive as everyone...lol. One reason I feel so comfortable hanging out here is that I can talk about these things with you guys and also realize how much I don't know from you guys and that it's okay to not know and that I can go find out and that's part of what learning is about.

 

:iagree: Amen, sister

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Edited: Gah! What is up with my grammar lately?! I keep rereading what I write and it just sounds awful. I suppose it could be the fact that I'm interrupted every couple of sentences by my talker who must tell me a lengthy reason he chose orange juice instead of apple. :001_rolleyes:

 

:smilielol5:  I am the same way! I'm horrified by my posts sometimes. What is it with this child who keeps wanting me to check her work and discuss things with her? Can't she see I'm trying to post!?  ;)

 

Edited to change "at" to "with" to "by". Thanks Crimson Wife! :cheers2:

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:smilielol5:  I am the same way! I'm horrified at my posts sometimes. What is it with this child who keeps wanting me to check her work and discuss things with her? Can't she see I'm trying to post!?

 

:rofl: I think I'm a bit nervous about my grammar here, too. At least here, people don't call you out on bad grammar like on FB.

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:rofl: I think I'm a bit nervous about my grammar here, too. At least here, people don't call you out on bad grammar like on FB.

 

True confession: I tried to decide if I was "horrified at" or "horrified with" in my previous post. I finally decided that spending so much time being horrified at all was not good, so I posted something, then edited it to the other way and prayed to the grammar gods I wasn't horribly incorrect! :smilielol5:

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I edit and edit and edit (both here and on fb) after the fact and it still doesn't sound right sometimes...I don't think grammatically it seems.

 

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True confession: I tried to decide if I was "horrified at" or "horrified with" in my previous post. I finally decided that spending so much time being horrified at all was not good, so I posted something, then edited it to the other way and prayed to the grammar gods I wasn't horribly incorrect! :smilielol5:

I think it would actually be "horrified by ______" but I doubt I would've even noticed had you not specifically drawn my attention to the phrase, LOL!

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I think it would actually be "horrified by ______" but I doubt I would've even noticed had you not specifically drawn my attention to the phrase, LOL!

 

 That's what I was looking for---horrified by! That makes the most sense of all!

 

(Now I'm horrified by the fact that "by" wasn't even in my list of contenders!! :lol:  It's edited, but now I'm even more paranoid than before! :ph34r: ;) )

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But, couldn't that be said about any book? Indeed, about life in general? I agree, it is sad, but I'm convinced we will all miss things that would have enriched our lives tremendously. I struggle with it all.the.time.

I was just teasing. Some how I don't think rose needs to pick a book for her dd just because Ruth in NZ loved it. I guess I needed a teasing face, but I am on my tablet. How's this one (-;

 

I think I've decided that when it comes to classics, with a few exceptions, I'm going to give Lily room to choose. When I think back to how I felt as a teen and to how I feel now, the deepest connections I made were with books of own choosing. I'm sure there are others who can list countless examples of assigned books becoming their favorites, that's just not been my experience. I want to make sure I don't create a situation where assigned books become dreaded books, or I take up so much time with my choices for her that she has little time to discover the works that will speak to her.

 

I've noticed the hard way over the past year or so that there was a decrease in enjoyment and retention with some of the assigned books in our home. Big, big problem. Now I try to do one of two things:

 

1. Give her guidelines regarding what type of book to read for a particular assignment, then let her choose the actual book completely on her own.

2. Give her a selection to choose from.

 

I've learned a lot about her doing it this way. She's also been much happier with her books.

 

For some reason, choosing which classics she needs to read feels akin to controlling her inner life and picking her friends.

 

Not saying this is true for everyone, not saying choosing books for your dc is wrong, I'm just offering a different perspective. :)

I completely agree with this. I never assign a book. Never. I suggest. I talk about what I like or what his dad likes. We talk about what might be a good choice for comparison after the book he just read. We discuss genres we have not read yet and might be fun to try. I tell him which books have been made into movies ( which is why he just read the Great Gatsby), I tell him about books about the era that he is studying in history. And then he chooses something.

 

He chose to read WH last year because he had just finished Frankenstein and I told him that for my senior paper in high school I compared WH to Frankenstein, and I had no idea what I wrote about, so I was going to reread WH to see if I could find/remember the comparison. That was enough for him to want to read it. (-:

 

I just asked him if he like it and he said yes because it seemed so realistic. And he really liked how you never really know if the ghosts are real. That it was purposely written to be uncertain. He read it as a part of a Gothic unit so was personally comparing it to picture of Dorian Gray, Frankenstein, poe, a whole collection of victorian ghost stories, etc. I think putting it in context of similar books really helped to make it pop for him.

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That's actually brilliant, Ruth - WH in the context of gothic ghost story/evil protagonist books, rather than in the context of early strong heroine books makes so much more sense!   Like I was saying upthread, I like reading a set of books with similar themes or contexts together so much more than reading books in isolation!

 

I'm reading Middlemarch now, and I definitely think it goes well with Portrait of a Lady so far.  I'm not very far in yet.

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 I like reading a set of books with similar themes or contexts together so much more than reading books in isolation!

 

 

Do you know of a resource that lists the books this way?  I am trying hard not to re-invent the wheel. I'm not sure if this is the approach we'll take, but I'll keep it in mind. At this point I'm just casting the net wide as we try to find what methods work best in our newly discovered sea. (Lots of changes recently.)

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I didn't read WH until I was about 30yo.  I gulped it down in about 3 days.  I had kids to feed, or I could have done it in a day.

 

I enjoyed it b/c it made me angry, disgusted, hopeful, dispair, and a few other extreme emotions.  It's one of those books that you throw against the wall.

 

 

It's probably more meaningful to a person who has dealt with difficult personalities.  High school kids might not have enough experience to get any of it.  idk.

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Just remembered the other one he read at that time was Turn of the Screw. Very interesting to compare to WH

 

We always do units, because I really get so much more out of lit analysis when I compare between books rather than within a book. And this is definitely true for my older son.

 

Woodland mist, I would love a source like that. I usually spend quite a bit of time with my friend Google.

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Hah! I just scored The Tenant of Wildfell Hall at the library sale shelf - anybody read that one?  I'll have to scroll back through and see if anybody mentioned it.

 

I don't have a resources for putting things together thematically, I just keep my ears open and try and figure out what makes sense, and then try to remember to put it in a word doc, then forget where I saved it and start another . . . so no, nothing organized! ;)

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I wonder too if it's a bit self-selecting, these ideas about the importance of catching literary references. We find it important and surround ourselves with others who do as well. Not everyone makes literary references, though. Does that make their references less important to know?

 

Have you ever had the experience of being with a group of people that have different lifestyles and interests than you have? You have trouble understanding many of their references simply because you don't live in their world. You don't laugh at the jokes, don't have a contribution to the jovial banter, don't feel like you belong... Does that mean you should track down all those references? Does that mean you should become one of them and move into their world?

 

I personally usually just like to sit back and think--Who knew???? People are so amazing!!!!!!!

 

In other words, we could spend a lifetime making sure we understand every reference people make about all subjects there are to make references to. Or we can focus on what draws us and speaks to us, picking up new ideas along the way, but always leaving something behind. There is so much in life that has the potential to speak to us if we just open ourselves.

 

Just to clarify, in case I was unclear. (And because I keep thinking about it. ;) )

 

I was a little surprised at the responses to this post. I understand the responses, and I have certainly felt the same way multiple times! I meant the above bolded section in a positive way, though. Has anyone experienced this in a positive way? (Maybe all of you are seasoned world travelers that have seen and done all there is to do and are just rather jaded with it all. :coolgleamA:)

 

For example, a friend of mine recently attended an art exhibit that was outside her usual artistic preferences. She didn't care for it, but she was eager to discuss it with me. She talked more about the people who attended than the art! :laugh:    She was intrigued by what they saw in the pieces that she didn't see and by the specific comments they made. She did a little research to become at least slightly more familiar with what she had seen and heard, but wasn't interested in going further. On a positive note, her world had grown. Even though she probably won't inhabit that area of her newly enlarged world often, she would at least be a little more familiar with the landscape the next time she encountered the land or its inhabitants. She's not going to understand all the references these people make, though. That's OK, she doesn't need to. For her, exposure was enough for this type of art. 

 

Another example...Lily is second-guessing registering for a weekend event that is outside her usual interests. I'm encouraging her to go. She's afraid of the above--that she won't be able to relate, understand, and connect with the people. I told her that in hindsight maybe she doesn't have a strong enough interest to make the activity worthwhile long-term, but she's already paid, her weekend plans have already been rearranged to attend, and who knows how it may change her life? It's not an opportunity that comes along every day. There may or may not be any literary references made, but she will be introduced to talented people whose world and strengths are much different than her own. She will most likely walk away understanding references she might not ever have known otherwise.

 

There are just so many worthy experiences that we would ideally understand references to. References that are just as poignant and relative to others' lives as literary ones are to ours.  Should we strive to know these references as well? Wouldn't they enrich our lives? Unfortunately, we need to pick and choose both from the world as a whole and from the smaller worlds we chose to inhabit.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify what I meant in case I wasn't clear before. I meant having the experience in a positive, awe-inspiring way. :)  

 

 

 

(ETA: If you don't have these experiences from time to time, I'm wondering if you shouldn't put down the books and get out a little more! :001_tt2:  ;) )

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Just to clarify, in case I was unclear. (And because I keep thinking about it. ;) )

 

I was a little surprised at the responses to this post. I understand the responses, and I have certainly felt the same way multiple times! I meant the above bolded section in a positive way, though. Has anyone experienced this in a positive way? (Maybe all of you are seasoned world travelers that have seen and done all there is to do and are just rather jaded with it all. :coolgleamA:)

 

For example, a friend of mine recently attended an art exhibit that was outside her usual artistic preferences. She didn't care for it, but she was eager to discuss it with me. She talked more about the people who attended than the art! :laugh:    She was intrigued by what they saw in the pieces that she didn't see and by the specific comments they made. She did a little research to become at least slightly more familiar with what she had seen and heard, but wasn't interested in going further. On a positive note, her world had grown. Even though she probably won't inhabit that area of her newly enlarged world often, she would at least be a little more familiar with the landscape the next time she encountered the land or its inhabitants. She's not going to understand all the references these people make, though. That's OK, she doesn't need to. For her, exposure was enough for this type of art. 

 

Another example...Lily is second-guessing registering for a weekend event that is outside her usual interests. I'm encouraging her to go. She's afraid of the above--that she won't be able to relate, understand, and connect with the people. I told her that in hindsight maybe she doesn't have a strong enough interest to make the activity worthwhile long-term, but she's already paid, her weekend plans have already been rearranged to attend, and who knows how it may change her life? It's not an opportunity that comes along every day. There may or may not be any literary references made, but she will be introduced to talented people whose world and strengths are much different than her own. She will most likely walk away understanding references she might not ever have known otherwise.

 

There are just so many worthy experiences that we would ideally understand references to. References that are just as poignant and relative to others' lives as literary ones are to ours.  Should we strive to know these references as well? Wouldn't they enrich our lives? Unfortunately, we need to pick and choose both from the world as a whole and from the smaller worlds we chose to inhabit.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify what I meant in case I wasn't clear before. I meant having the experience in a positive, awe-inspiring way. :)  

 

 

 

(ETA: If you don't have these experiences from time to time, I'm wondering if you shouldn't put down the books and get out a little more! :001_tt2:  ;) )

 

 

This, my friend, is not news to me.  

 

I love my life, I love my family, I can't imagine my life without them.  Yet . . . I've found myself this last few months facing up to some of those "road not taken" regrets.  I walked away from academia at 26 with a PhD under my belt, into a totally different kind of life.  I didn't think I'd ever look back.

 

But now, in my 40s, I'm realizing the parts of it that I miss.  It really boils down to intellectual stimulation, engagement with ideas, interest in discovery.  My world doesn't offer a lot of that.  I can't remember the last time I had a really interesting conversation with anybody besides my kids or my dh.  It was probably at my book group - a wonderful group of people who get together to read and discuss "the canon" - almost all of them over 65.  But people my age?  It doesn't happen.  

 

I'm not trying to be a snob, honestly.  We're all concerned with jobs, kids, orthodntia, mortgages, retirement savings, college, whatever.  It's life.  But I miss the life of the mind.  If I weren't homeschooling, and if I didn't have this forum, I'm not sure what I'd do with myself.

 

Ok, I'm making myself cry.  So pathetic.  Time to go to work.  Have a good day, everybody.

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:grouphug:

 

I feel terrible, Rose! I made that comment in jest trying to work through my current struggle with book work vs opportunities that have come up. I'm also working through my thoughts about what being educated truly means. Now I'm wondering if I should delete the post! :huh: :crying:

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No! Don't feel terrible. There is nothing wrong with your post, it's actually lovely and a great point.  I'm sure I'm just oversharing in a post about discussing literature.

 

We're all trying to work through our stuff, right?  How to educate, how to live an intellectually rich and full life, how to provide our kids with the tools so that they can do so.   I, for one, am grateful for these discussions.  I don't even mind losing sleep over them.  ;)  :)

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I somehow managed to make it to this point in my life without reading Wuthering Heights, so now I am . . .  and I gotta say, I am not enjoying it very much.  It's not the genre or the style - I love Jane Eyre, and Dickens, and Austen.  It's not that I need happy good characters, I love Frankenstein and Crime and Punishment and Anna Karenina . . . . but geez, I just can't find it in me to care about these people or their problems at all!  They are totally detestable.  What am I missing?  Can anyone kick me in the seat of the pants into an appreciation of this novel?  I'm not even going for love at this point, just appreciation and trying to understand its "greatness"?

 

For some reason, it seems that people either like Jane Eyre or Wuthering Heights, but not both.  Personally, I liked Wuthering Heights and hated Jane Eyre. But it's the end of Wuthering Heights that makes it worthwhile, so I recommend sticking with it.

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Hah, that is the one book that I didn't finish. I chucked it across the room and left it there when I was 15. I just couldn't do it. I still can't bring myself to pick up a copy now.

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For some reason, it seems that people either like Jane Eyre or Wuthering Heights, but not both.  Personally, I liked Wuthering Heights and hated Jane Eyre. But it's the end of Wuthering Heights that makes it worthwhile, so I recommend sticking with it.

 

I liked them both when I read them in the past year or two. WH was like a whodunnit with all the unreliable narrators and crazy plot twists and I remember being drawn like a trainwreck to those awful, awful people. JE was the most heart-swelling yet cheesy romance, and following it up by watching the Timothy Dalton movie version was just a completely terrific way to spend some long nights alone, back when I had Netflix streaming and my husband worked late! I bawled my eyes out, though I thought Dalton was way too handsome to be Rochester.

 

We did WH in AP English Lit when I was 17. I remember the whole thing about the wildness of nature and the moors and whatnot. Other than that, nada...I am pretty sure I detested it and/or was numb to it because I only have nebulous negative emotions attached to the book and no memory of the actual story whatsoever.

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How did WH end?  I know I finished it, because it is just what I do.  But, I don't think I cared by the end.  But, now I am curious.  

Did they both die painful deaths?  No, they weren't That bad.  Did they both die pitiful and alone?

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How did WH end?  I know I finished it, because it is just what I do.  But, I don't think I cared by the end.  But, now I am curious.  

Did they both die painful deaths?  No, they weren't That bad.  Did they both die pitiful and alone?

 

I'll pm you so I don't ruin the end for anyone else.

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This, my friend, is not news to me.  

 

I love my life, I love my family, I can't imagine my life without them.  Yet . . . I've found myself this last few months facing up to some of those "road not taken" regrets.  I walked away from academia at 26 with a PhD under my belt, into a totally different kind of life.  I didn't think I'd ever look back.

 

But now, in my 40s, I'm realizing the parts of it that I miss.  It really boils down to intellectual stimulation, engagement with ideas, interest in discovery.  My world doesn't offer a lot of that.  I can't remember the last time I had a really interesting conversation with anybody besides my kids or my dh.  It was probably at my book group - a wonderful group of people who get together to read and discuss "the canon" - almost all of them over 65.  But people my age?  It doesn't happen.  

 

I'm not trying to be a snob, honestly.  We're all concerned with jobs, kids, orthodntia, mortgages, retirement savings, college, whatever.  It's life.  But I miss the life of the mind.  If I weren't homeschooling, and if I didn't have this forum, I'm not sure what I'd do with myself.

 

Ok, I'm making myself cry.  So pathetic.  Time to go to work.  Have a good day, everybody.

 

Oh Rose, why don't you live near me?  We are like two clones separated by a very large ocean.

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The morning sun and the recent posts have shed light on something I hadn't even realized was in the darkness. I've been so focused on how beneficial the intellectual stimulation and educational connections are for Lily, that I have greatly underestimated how vital they are for me. I have taken them for granted, to say the least.

 

The tossing and turning about dropping a few extras to allow us to miss school to hang out at the lab? Gone. Late nights or early mornings for field work with scientists? Not.a.problem.

 

I still feel rotten about my post, but I'm humbled by and grateful for the responses.

 

:grouphug:

 

 

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The morning sun and the recent posts have shed light on something I hadn't even realized was in the darkness. I've been so focused on how beneficial the intellectual stimulation and educational connections are for Lily, that I have greatly underestimated how vital they are for me. I have taken them for granted, to say the least.

 

The tossing and turning about dropping a few extras to allow us to miss school to hang out at the lab? Gone. Late nights or early mornings for field work with scientists? Not.a.problem.

 

I still feel rotten about my post, but I'm humbled by and grateful for the responses.

 

:grouphug:

 

That is so huge - realizing that, I mean.  It's something that makes it hard for me to give up my plans, too - because I have to admit that I plan stuff that I want to do, that I'm interested in, that I find stimulating and interesting . . . and recognizing that those things might be different for my kids, and that that comes first in planning *their* education, is a huge step.  I'm only managing to take that huge step in baby steps, but it's still progress!  

 

:cheers2: (with ginger beer!)  ;)

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Oh Rose, why don't you live near me?  We are like two clones separated by a very large ocean.

 

I frequently have the very same thought - which makes sense, since our brains are cloned!  ;)  :)

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I was just teasing. Some how I don't think rose needs to pick a book for her dd just because Ruth in NZ loved it. I guess I needed a teasing face, but I am on my tablet. How's this one (-;

 

 

I completely agree with this. I never assign a book. Never. I suggest. I talk about what I like or what his dad likes. We talk about what might be a good choice for comparison after the book he just read. We discuss genres we have not read yet and might be fun to try. I tell him which books have been made into movies ( which is why he just read the Great Gatsby), I tell him about books about the era that he is studying in history. And then he chooses something.

 

He chose to read WH last year because he had just finished Frankenstein and I told him that for my senior paper in high school I compared WH to Frankenstein, and I had no idea what I wrote about, so I was going to reread WH to see if I could find/remember the comparison. That was enough for him to want to read it. (-:

 

I just asked him if he like it and he said yes because it seemed so realistic. And he really liked how you never really know if the ghosts are real. That it was purposely written to be uncertain. He read it as a part of a Gothic unit so was personally comparing it to picture of Dorian Gray, Frankenstein, poe, a whole collection of victorian ghost stories, etc. I think putting it in context of similar books really helped to make it pop for him.

 

What a wonderful unschool-y way to do literature. :D

 

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I loathe Wuthering Heights. I still find it deeply confronting. My mother, who had a true classical education, loved it. I think it's a book to use judiciously. I grew up in a violent home. Wuthering Heights makes me physically uncomfortable, not because the characters seem irredeemable but because of the bullying and abuse. I have to move into a very clinical headspace to get past this. My mother revelled in the blackness - for her it was the epitome of teenage melancholy (I suspect she would have been an Emo had she been a teenager in the noughties ;-)). For my son, with his melancholy nature and our family history of depression, I will probably give it a wide berth, at least until he is much older and the book can be an academic exercise rather than an emotional one. BUT Lori D is right: it is THE most wonderful book for exploring setting and symbolism, and Romanticism because of its bleakness and the stripping back of both setting and character, and the way it almost seems to look down on its own genre. It's also a salutary lesson to the reader: you don't have to like the characters to read and appreciate the writers craft.

 

Can I just say that it's 1am in Sydney and I am thoroughly enjoying being glued to a thread about lit analysis!

D

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I used to really love all the Bronte sisters' works in high school. When I got to college I wrote a paper in my Victorian English class comparing Wuthering Heights to Lewis' version of Eros in The Four Loves. Lewis wrote about affection, friendship, romance, and Agape love (God's love).

 

One interesting way to look at Wuthering Heights is that it's a lesson in how unrestrained Eros can consume and "eat the lovers up" and drive them to despair.

“As Venus within Eros does not really aim at pleasure, so Eros does not aim at happiness. We may think he does, but when he is brought to the test it proves otherwise... For it is the very mark of Eros that when he is in us we had rather share unhappiness with the Beloved than be happy on any other terms.â€

Perhaps reading The Four Loves would be a nice way to discuss the book with high schoolers.

Sometimes it's good to read Victorian literature as a warning of What Not to Do.

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