Confused about compulsory attendance age in NYS

[wonderfilled]

NY state law states "Children who have their sixth birthday on or before December 1 are considered to be of compulsory school age as of the preceding September.  Therefore and IHIP is required as of September 1 for children who will turn six by December 1." 

 

So if I had a child that turns six on November 29, would he be required to be in first grade?  That would mean he is 5 the first few months of first grade.  Actually one of my sons turned six this past December 7, so I'm relieved he missed the cut off date.  My other three sons have September/October birthdays.  I had always assumed they wouldn't have had to be in 1st grade if I didn't want them to be since I thought that a child usually turns 7 sometime during first grade.  Have I been wrong?

 

I also have a question on standardized testing.  I am ordering standardized tests for the first time.  I am wondering about my 3rd/4th grader who has a September birthday.  He is doing CLE 4th grade Language Arts and 3rd grade Singapore math.  I am planning on ordering the CAT E-Survey.  Would you order 3rd or 4th grade tests?  Does the school district care?  He's a good reader.

 

Thanks!

[Dmmetler]

I assume it's that they're required to be in K if they turn 6 by December 1 (although they may be eligible a year before and could be in 1st if they'd started the year earlier), not that they HAVE to be in K when they're 4 turning 5 and in 1st at 5 turning 6. Most states have set their cutoff dates such that it's not even an option to be 4 in kindergarten without some form of waiver.

 

 

 

 

 

[wonderfilled]

So, you are saying that kindergarten is mandatory?

[Matryoshka]

In MA, there are two separate cut-offs.  A kid has to be 6 before Sept. 1st to be in 1st grade that year, but mandatory attendance goes by calendar year- so if a kid turns 6 on/before Dec 31st they must be in school - but it can't be 1st grade because they don't make that cut-off. So there's this weird thing where K is not mandatory unless your kid turns 6 between Sept 1st and Dec 31st, then it is because they have mandatory school attendance but are not old enough to attend 1st.

 

Whether or not similar weirdness is going on in NY depends on where the cut-off for 1st grade is.  Is it Sept. 1st or Dec 1st?

[AdventureMoms]

Kids have to be in school by the year they are 6 on Dec 1.  So my sons with Nov birthdays are required to be in school (and thus file an IHIP) the year they are 5-turning-6 at the beginning of the school year.  My friend with a daughter born in December isn't required to file until her daughter is 6-turning-7.  YOu can choose any grade level for that first year - my friend is considering reporting her 6yo as a 2nd grader (not a good idea, IMO), and I will likely report my sons as K when they are 5-turning-6.  My daughter will be 6 at the start of next year (May birthday) and she will be registered as  K-er, but could as easily be registered as a 1st (and is, realistically, a 1st grader).  Doing it this way reduces the amount of standardized testing required later on. 

[wonderfilled]

In MA, there are two separate cut-offs.  A kid has to be 6 before Sept. 1st to be in 1st grade that year, but mandatory attendance goes by calendar year- so if a kid turns 6 on/before Dec 31st they must be in school - but it can't be 1st grade because they don't make that cut-off. So there's this weird thing where K is not mandatory unless your kid turns 6 between Sept 1st and Dec 31st, then it is because they have mandatory school attendance but are not old enough to attend 1st.

 

Whether or not similar weirdness is going on in NY depends on where the cut-off for 1st grade is.  Is it Sept. 1st or Dec 1st?

 

For some reason, I haven't been able to find a cut-off date for 1st grade, but it sounds like something similar is going on.

[AdventureMoms]

In MA, there are two separate cut-offs.  A kid has to be 6 before Sept. 1st to be in 1st grade that year, but mandatory attendance goes by calendar year- so if a kid turns 6 on/before Dec 31st they must be in school - but it can't be 1st grade because they don't make that cut-off. So there's this weird thing where K is not mandatory unless your kid turns 6 between Sept 1st and Dec 31st, then it is because they have mandatory school attendance but are not old enough to attend 1st.

 

Whether or not similar weirdness is going on in NY depends on where the cut-off for 1st grade is.  Is it Sept. 1st or Dec 1st?

 

I don't think NY has that.  The cutoff is unusually late, but consistent (Dec 1).  Kids who are 5 by Dec 1 can enter K, kids who are 6 by Dec 1 and have done K  can do 1st.  Whether kids can skip right to first without enrolling in K (for kids attending PS) varies by district.  My district will not allow it - if you homeschool K or just skip it, then start when they "should" be old enough for 1st, they will just be put in K again.  My daughter (who is 2nd grade level in math and reading fairly well now) would be put in K even though she will be well over 6 when the school year starts.  If I homeschooled her for 1st, she could go into 2nd though.  It's weird.  

 

Homeschoolers can skip K.  Some districts may allow it for enrolled students too, but not mine.  

[Ellie]

NY state law states "Children who have their sixth birthday on or before December 1 are considered to be of compulsory school age as of the preceding September.  Therefore and IHIP is required as of September 1 for children who will turn six by December 1." 

 

So if I had a child that turns six on November 29, would he be required to be in first grade?  That would mean he is 5 the first few months of first grade.  Actually one of my sons turned six this past December 7, so I'm relieved he missed the cut off date.  My other three sons have September/October birthdays.  I had always assumed they wouldn't have had to be in 1st grade if I didn't want them to be since I thought that a child usually turns 7 sometime during first grade.  Have I been wrong?

 

I also have a question on standardized testing.  I am ordering standardized tests for the first time.  I am wondering about my 3rd/4th grader who has a September birthday.  He is doing CLE 4th grade Language Arts and 3rd grade Singapore math.  I am planning on ordering the CAT E-Survey.  Would you order 3rd or 4th grade tests?  Does the school district care?  He's a good reader.

 

Thanks!

 

Yes, I would say first grade, not kindergarten.

 

I would order the fourth grade test for your older dc. Although actually, the law says you have to test every other year between fourth and eighth grades; this can be your "other" year. :-) 

[wonderfilled]

Kids have to be in school by the year they are 6 on Dec 1.  So my sons with Nov birthdays are required to be in school (and thus file an IHIP) the year they are 5-turning-6 at the beginning of the school year.  My friend with a daughter born in December isn't required to file until her daughter is 6-turning-7.  YOu can choose any grade level for that first year - my friend is considering reporting her 6yo as a 2nd grader (not a good idea, IMO), and I will likely report my sons as K when they are 5-turning-6.  My daughter will be 6 at the start of next year (May birthday) and she will be registered as  K-er, but could as easily be registered as a 1st (and is, realistically, a 1st grader).  Doing it this way reduces the amount of standardized testing required later on. 

 

Thanks. So, there is no problem with registering my 9 year old son (September birthday) as in 3rd grade.

 

[wonderfilled]

Yes, I would say first grade, not kindergarten.

 

I would order the fourth grade test for your older dc. Although actually, the law says you have to test every other year between fourth and eighth grades; this can be your "other" year. :-) 

 

I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly.  You would say a 5 year old with a birthday in November is considered a first grader.  Or did I miss something?  That seems really young.

 

I was leaning toward the 4th grade test, too, but that means every year I'll be testing him a year ahead in math.  I didn't mind as much with using Singapore, because I've heard they're advanced, but I will probably switch to CLE for math next year and I'm not sure the same is true for CLE.

[daybreaking]

In NY, you are required to begin reporting the year your child will be 6 by December 1, but it is completely up to you whether you call him a K'er or a 1st grader.  My ds turned 6 in August and I still called him a K'er when I submitted my letter of intent.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From New York's education site (http://www.p12.nysed.gov/nonpub/homeinstruction/homeschoolingqanda.html):

35. Must the IHIP for a six-year-old indicate that the instruction is on the first grade level?

    No. As with any age, instruction should be geared to the level appropriate to the student's needs and previous level of achievement.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

As far as which test to order, you should order the test for the year your child is in, according to what you've told your district, not according to what curriculum you are using.  (It's fairly common for homeschoolers to have students in a variety of grade levels for work.)  So, If you told the district your child is in 3rd grade, you should order the 3rd grade test.  What you don't want to do is have him listed as a 4th grader, but then give him a 3rd grade test.  I had a friend do that and the test was automatically scored lower because she had tested below grade level.  In addition, it's likely your district won't accept the test, because your son would not have been tested at grade level.  (You could compare the scenario to a public schooled 4th grader being tested at the end of the year with a 3rd grade test.  It would never fly.)  If you haven't yet given the district a grade and he is doing both 3rd and 4th grade work, I would tell the district he is in 3rd grade.  It will take a lot of pressure off of you. 

[daybreaking]

I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly.  You would say a 5 year old with a birthday in November is considered a first grader.  Or did I miss something?  That seems really young.

 

I was leaning toward the 4th grade test, too, but that means every year I'll be testing him a year ahead in math.  I didn't mind as much with using Singapore, because I've heard they're advanced, but I will probably switch to CLE for math next year and I'm not sure the same is true for CLE.

 

I was posting the same time as Ellie and you.  Take a look at my post (#11), as it answers these questions. :001_smile:

[wonderfilled]

I don't think NY has that.  The cutoff is unusually late, but consistent (Dec 1).  Kids who are 5 by Dec 1 can enter K, kids who are 6 by Dec 1 and have done K  can do 1st.  Whether kids can skip right to first without enrolling in K (for kids attending PS) varies by district.  My district will not allow it - if you homeschool K or just skip it, then start when they "should" be old enough for 1st, they will just be put in K again.  My daughter (who is 2nd grade level in math and reading fairly well now) would be put in K even though she will be well over 6 when the school year starts.  If I homeschooled her for 1st, she could go into 2nd though.  It's weird.  

 

Homeschoolers can skip K.  Some districts may allow it for enrolled students too, but not mine.  

 

Thanks for clarifying.  So you could have a four year old in K and a 5 year old in 1st (if they completed K). 

 

According to the law I quoted, it doesn't sound like you can skip kindergarten, though, if you have a child with a November birthday and don't wish to put them in 1st grade at 5 years old.  I hope I'm making sense.

 

ETA: I was typing this before I read some other posts, so it's clearer now.

[daybreaking]

Thanks. So, there is no problem with registering my 9 year old son (September birthday) as in 3rd grade.

 

 

None at all!!  A few years ago, my ds turned 9 in August and I registered him as a 3rd grader.  He's now 11 and a 5th grader.   In NY, it's completely your choice what grade you call your children. :-)

[daybreaking]

Thanks for clarifying.  So you could have a four year old in K and a 5 year old in 1st (if they completed K). 

 

According to the law I quoted, it doesn't sound like you can skip kindergarten, though, if you have a child with a November birthday and don't wish to put them in 1st grade at 5 years old.  I hope I'm making sense.

 

Actually, you can skip kindergarten.  It is not mandatory in NY.  All that is mandatory is that you start reporting once your child hit's the 6yo cutoff.

[wonderfilled]

Okay, thanks everyone.  It's clear now after reading all the posts.  I might have made a mistake as reporting my son as in grade 3/4 so now I'm not sure what to do with testing. Do you think the district would have a problem if I would test at 3rd grade and just start reporting him from now on as the lower of the two grades?  They are not very picky so far and haven't given me a problem with anything else.

[daybreaking]

Okay, thanks everyone.  It's clear now after reading all the posts.  I might have made a mistake as reporting my son as in grade 3/4 so now I'm not sure what to do with testing. 

 

I'm surprised your district actually allowed that!  I tried that with mine and they made me give a specific grade.  Since you reported your son as a 3/4 grader, I think you could get away with using a 3rd grade standardized test.  Just make sure when you fill out the standardized test, that you put him as a 3rd grader on the form.  Then, next year, when you submit your letter of intent, state that he will be in 4th grade.  If you haven't yet submitted your 3rd quarterly report, I'd simply add a letter stating that you will be testing your son with the 3rd grade CAT-E exam.  When they accept the report, they are also agreeing to the testing.  Since he is doing 3rd grade math, if you test at the 4th grade level, he'll be behind and that would continue year after year.  It's better to switch it now and save yourself a headache down the road.

[wonderfilled]

I'm surprised your district actually allowed that!  I tried that with mine and they made me give a specific grade.  Since you reported your son as a 3/4 grader, I think you could get away with using a 3rd grade standardized test.  Just make sure when you fill out the standardized test, that you put him as a 3rd grader on the form.  Then, next year, when you submit your letter of intent, state that he will be in 4th grade.  If you haven't yet submitted your 3rd quarterly report, I'd simply add a letter stating that you will be testing your son with the 3rd grade CAT-E exam.  When they accept the report, they are also agreeing to the testing.  Since he is doing 3rd grade math, if you test at the 4th grade level, he'll be behind and that would continue year after year.  It's better to switch it now and save yourself a headache down the road.

 

It looks like we were double posting.  I just sent my third quarterly report off this morning, so it's too late for that!  But I think I'll give the third grade test to make it easier for the future.  I don't think they'll have a problem.  They've been super easy to work with.

[freesia]

It looks like we were double posting.  I just sent my third quarterly report off this morning, so it's too late for that!  But I think I'll give the third grade test to make it easier for the future.  I don't think they'll have a problem.  They've been super easy to work with.

You don't even have to tell them what you are doing. That is not part of the law.

 

You don't have to submit a test until the end of fifth grade.

 

I have friends who have held children back and submitted the same grade test 2 years in a row and it has never been a problem.

[daybreaking]

You don't even have to tell them what you are doing. That is not part of the law.

 

Actually, if a parent wants to give a standardized test anywhere other than a registered school, the superintendent needs to consent. 

 

~~~~~

From http://www.p12.nysed.gov/part100/pages/10010.html:

1. at a nonregistered nonpublic school, by its professional staff, provided that the consent of the superintendent of schools of the school district and of the chief school officer of the nonpublic school is obtained; or
2. at the parents' home or at any other reasonable location, by a New York State- certified teacher or by another qualified person, provided that the superintendent has consented to having said certified teacher or other person administer the test.

~~~~~

 

The reason we tell the district ahead of time which test we will be giving and who will be giving it, is to avoid the scenario of a district refusing to accept it.  If the information is given at the time the IHIP or a quarterly report is filed, when the district accepts the IHIP or report, they have agreed to the testing conditions.  I guess for me, I find it easier to let them know ahead of time, because I wouldn't want to go through all the work of testing only to have the superintendent not consent.

[daybreaking]

It looks like we were double posting.  I just sent my third quarterly report off this morning, so it's too late for that!  But I think I'll give the third grade test to make it easier for the future.  I don't think they'll have a problem.  They've been super easy to work with.

 

That's great that your district is easy to work with.  I'm fortunate to live in an easy district, as well.  We've reported for six years and they've never questioned me on anything.  I'm hoping to keep it that way. :001_smile:

[wonderfilled]

Actually, if a parent wants to give a standardized test anywhere other than a registered school, the superintendent needs to consent. 

 

~~~~~

From http://www.p12.nysed.gov/part100/pages/10010.html:

1. at a nonregistered nonpublic school, by its professional staff, provided that the consent of the superintendent of schools of the school district and of the chief school officer of the nonpublic school is obtained; or
2. at the parents' home or at any other reasonable location, by a New York State- certified teacher or by another qualified person, provided that the superintendent has consented to having said certified teacher or other person administer the test.

~~~~~

 

The reason we tell the district ahead of time which test we will be giving and who will be giving it, is to avoid the scenario of a district refusing to accept it.  If the information is given at the time the IHIP or a quarterly report is filed, when the district accepts the IHIP or report, they have agreed to the testing conditions.  I guess for me, I find it easier to let them know ahead of time, because I wouldn't want to go through all the work of testing only to have the superintendent not consent.

 

That is why I stated on the letter that I sent with my quarterly reports that I would be administering the CAT to the children.  I figure that if they don't tell me that I can't, that they are agreeing to my plans.  In my letter I said "the children" so I guess that wouldn't have to include the 9 yo.  If I would have thought of it ahead of time that I don't need to test the 9 yo, I would have mentioned the older two by name so that things would be perfectly clear.  But I really don't mind testing him.  I might test him and not submit the results.

[wonderfilled]

That's great that your district is easy to work with.  I'm fortunate to live in an easy district, as well.  We've reported for six years and they've never questioned me on anything.  I'm hoping to keep it that way. :001_smile:

 

That sounds great!  I have a friend who lives near me and her district is always hassling her about minor things missing on her IHIP or quarterly.

[AdventureMoms]

Thanks for clarifying.  So you could have a four year old in K and a 5 year old in 1st (if they completed K). 

 

According to the law I quoted, it doesn't sound like you can skip kindergarten, though, if you have a child with a November birthday and don't wish to put them in 1st grade at 5 years old.  I hope I'm making sense.

 

ETA: I was typing this before I read some other posts, so it's clearer now.

 

Yes, a 5yo with a november birthday would be a 1st grader in NY.  You can red-shirt them (put them in K) or put them in 1st, but you have to report that year, so if you don't want to report a 1st grader yet, you have to report a Ker.  

 

In good news the requirements for K are almost NOTHING, so you don't really have to do much.