2nd year of algebra....help me decide!

[Murrayshire]

My dd is in 8th but going to have a transition year before starting 9th grade. She has been using TT Algebra 1 this year and used Saxon 7/6 & 8/7 the previous years. She is doing really well in the math department.... Still think she needs another round of algebra that will be different from TT.

 

I'm not against Saxon even though I know she isn't jumping for joy to use it. She does get a bit annoyed with the incremental lessons.....

I know I have posted before about BJU Algebra, but have decided against that.

I'm aware of the lists of algebra texts and resources out there, so could anyone recommend an Alg.to use after coming out of TT?.... I'd like to choose something that will set her up for the rest of her high school years. She does well in math and gets it..... But doesn't like it..... She's not going to compete in any sort of math competition..... I just want something solid, long term, and simple for me to follow and grade. (And preferably lecture videos)

 

Also, if going with Saxon becomes our plan, what do you write as far as descriptions/courses on transcript? Since it is so integrated. (And we most likely will use a geometry text or TT for 9th instead of moving on to algebra II.

 

Thanks everyone for popping in!

[mom31257]

I really like Lial's Beginning Algebra and have used the Intermediate book for dd's Algebra 2. I used BJU for Geometry because a friend loaned it to me and dh was laid off that year.  I would have used TT (just the book) if I had been purchasing something. 

 

Dd is going to do dual enrollment for her last math credit in high school. If that were not an option, I'd be using the next Lial's book, but I haven't researched to see which one that is. 

 

If it matters, her practice test scores for the SAT and ACT have all had good math section scores (not perfect, but high). She doesn't like math but can do it. 

[Murrayshire]

I really like Lial's Beginning Algebra and have used the Intermediate book for dd's Algebra 2. I used BJU for Geometry because a friend loaned it to me and dh was laid off that year. I would have used TT (just the book) if I had been purchasing something.

 

Dd is going to do dual enrollment for her last math credit in high school. If that were not an option, I'd be using the next Lial's book, but I haven't researched to see which one that is.

 

If it matters, her practice test scores for the SAT and ACT have all had good math section scores (not perfect, but high). She doesn't like math but can do it.

Thanks for posting again with helpful thoughts!

Can you tell me a little bit on how Lial's book is structured? Will it be simple for a non-algebra mama to follow? Are there video options and solutions too?

[TarynB]

Have you considered Foerster? I decided on that next for my DS. Its straightforward and thorough. You can buy video instruction (DVDs, not online videos) made especially for Foerster, from Math Without Borders. They offer programs through Precalc. http://mathwithoutborders.com/?page_id=4

 

ETA: There's also Chalkdust, which has DVD instruction too. You can buy the generic version, which is the same product without the Chalkdust name, published by Houghton-Mifflin.

[Murrayshire]

I have looked at Foerster. How does that work with an average math student?

[TarynB]

I have looked at Foerster. How does that work with an average math student?

I understand your concern. Well, to be honest, I'm not sure, since my DS hasn't actually started it yet; like I said, it is what we'll be doing next. So feel free to ignore me since I have no real experience. :laugh: Here's a link to a page of algebra suggestions written by Maria Miller (creator of Math Mammoth). Here's part of what she says about Foerster algebra (and, having used Math Mammoth 4-6, I trust her opinions):

 

"With Foerster, you can definitely "hear" a teacher speaking to you through the text. The book is written to the student, with excellent, sometimes even pedantic, explanations. The text often includes little tips like what a classroom teacher might say, such as "the vinculum is supposed to extend over here" or illustrations why something cannot be done.

 

Foerster's algebra goes fairly deep into the usual topics of algebra 1. The book includes both basic and challenging exercises, including lots of word problems. It is an excellent textbook when it comes to explaining mathematics. Foerster's approach is very analytical and logical, relying on mathematical thinking—which can be very good for students who are going into sciences.

 

The main difficulty I can see for homeschooling parents is that some of the exercises are quite challenging. Thus, Foerster's book may be too difficult for some students."

 

So I hope those details might be helpful in deciding whether it could be a good fit for your DD.  I don't see why one couldn't reduce and/or skip some of the most challenging word problems if they prove to be too difficult for a particular ("average") student, as referenced in the review above. No need to throw out the baby with the bathwater, esp. when the program has good, clear teaching.

 

I mentioned Foerster with Math Without Borders since your DD has gone through TT Algebra already, so perhaps using a curriculum like Foerster might not be as daunting as it might be for a student with a different background. Plus the MWB videos, which cover several levels, so you'd be set for a good while or maybe all through high school. You can also buy the complete solutions manual and a test book if you want them. Foerster is visually clean and uncluttered, which is a plus for us but not for some folks, and is directed at a high school audience, not a remedial college text. 

 

Maybe you could elaborate on the specifics of why you want to do another year of algebra 1? What did you feel was lacking, or what features would help your DD more the second time? Hope you get more BTDT advice.

[mom31257]

The Lial books are actually developmental math books for college classes. The lessons are arranged in chapters by topics. The lesson has several detailed examples with extra practice exercises in the margins. The problem sets can be very large, as many as 100 or more problems, but you definitely don't need to do that many. One nice thing about the problem sets is that each section will state which examples to see if you need help. The Student Solutions manuals have the odd problems from the lessons worked out as well as solutions for all of the chapter review section, chapter test, and cumulative review section after each chapter.

 

I don't know about videos, but I know I've seen references to online helps. I'm sorry I can't be of more help in that department. Did you do the TT Algebra 1 along with her? If so, how did you do with it? 

[Murrayshire]

I haven't been working through TT with her..... Wish now that I did. I have kept a close track each day on what her lessons are and have been looking through her lessons & practice sets each day as well. Those she misses, I will usually go back through the solution after she is done b/c she is the type that doesn't like for me to hang out over her while working. She likes her independence greatly. I can say that we have been pretty thorough about our daily math set up using TT..... I was really sketchy about using it to begin with, but the girls tried it out and became hooked.

 

From what I can see, dd is understanding pretty well. She is able to show me what she has learned each day.....her grades are great! There were only a couple tests and a few lessons that I made her repeat. I can't put my finger on those right now but once retaught, she did just fine. She is definitely learning new material through TT..... In comparison to other algebra texts, from what I've been told, it's pretty simplistic. The reason of taking a second year of algebra. I thought this transition year would be a great opportunity to solidify skills in all areas.

 

Thank you ladies! I will look into these two more and then have dd take a peek.

[Murrayshire]

Oh, I found a really good thread about what you would need to buy for Lial's. Jann in TX commented in their quite a bit.

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/253278-what-exactly-do-i-need-to-use-lials-algebra/

[mom31257]

I'm glad you found that link! I have my Introductory book loaned out to a friend right now, but I've got the Intermediate here if you have further questions. Every person I've shown the books to lately loves the format and straightforward examples. I've got the Basic College Mathematics loaned out to another good friend. That's a book which can be used for Pre-Algebra. 

 

 

[Murrayshire]

Thank you Amy in GA!

 

I do like how Lial's has review! I think that is most important! Look's like others don't have a hard time with making their own review in Foersters.

I wonder if it would be worth purchasing MM Alg worksheets for review?

[Murrayshire]

Thank you SparklyUnicorn for chiming in. Though we have Art Reed CDs I was thinking of getting the Saxon Teacher CDs so it shows the solutions for each problem.... She would prefer that.....if we plan to go down that path. Do you think adding in MM Alg sheets would be helpful for more practice or not? Don't want to spend the dough and then sit on the shelf.....I do that too much.

[Kareni]

With some searching, I found that Kinsa had posted some Saxon Course Descriptions here:

 

Opinions? Course descriptions for Saxon

 

For my daughter, we used Margaret Lial's books for Algebra 1 and 2 and Harold Jacobs' book for Geometry.  Here are a couple of the course descriptions that I wrote:

 

Algebra 2
A comprehensive course covering: linear equations and inequalities, graphs and functions, polynomials and factoring, rational expressions, rational equations and functions, radicals, complex numbers, linear models, the conic sections, systems of equations including matrix methods, and exponential and logarithmic functions.
(Class taken at home in 10th grade.) Awarded 1.00 credits.

Geometry
This classical geometry course is heavily dependent on deductive reasoning and the proof writing process and also relies on compass-and-straight-edge constructions. Topics include points, lines, planes; rays and angles; congruent triangles; geometric inequalities, parallel lines; quadrilaterals; transformations; area; similarity; right triangles; circles, concurrence theorems; regular polygons and the circle; geometric solids, non-Euclidean geometry and coordinate geometry.
(Class taken at home in 9th grade.) Awarded 1.00 credits.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Murrayshire]

I'm not familiar with MM Algebra sheets. What is that?

 

I don't think you will need more practice if you use Saxon. There is too much practice in it! LOL

Math Mammoth

 

http://www.mathmammoth.com/worksheets/algebra_1.php

[Murrayshire]

Another vote for Lial's. We love it! Well, I do at least. ;) It's very straightforward. We bought the text, student solutions and the DVTs. We didn't use the DVTs until around chapter 3 or 4. That's only because there were times where he was picking things up super fast and was able to work independently. I'm really happy with choosing a more rigorous pre-algebra curriculum now. The DVTs are helpful to preview, but not completely necessary. For the majority of the time I'm right there explaining things and asking questions.

 

I really love all of the built-in review, both chapter and cumulative. I like hoe the lessons build and I like that they always throw in some decimal and fraction problems and include some multi-step problems. They also have a problem at the beginning of the exercises that makes them explain what steps they are taking or shows them why. I always make sure to add those into his assignments.

 

Also, they always restate the rules really simple in a blue box. I have ds write those in his math journal, for reference and to help cement the rules.

 

This site has full samples of Lials. They used to have the 8th edition to preview, but I can't find it. There is the 9th and 10th editions, so you can at least see how they are set up.

PlumCrazy, thanks for those details.... It does help!

[Kendall]

Foerster is my choice as well.  I have a child who has completed the first chapter.  She struggles in math.  I have no plans to switch texts because of her abilities.  Since your daughter has had Algebra 1 already, she might find another easy program  boring.  You can always choose to drop the harder problems.  I think the majority of it is just very solid, not extra hard.  And it would give more problems solving practice.  You might find with a different program that she likes math better.  You never know!   Lial's may also give more problems solving practice; I'm not familiar with it.  

[Murrayshire]

Another vote for Lial's. We love it! Well, I do at least. ;) It's very straightforward. We bought the text, student solutions and the DVTs. We didn't use the DVTs until around chapter 3 or 4. That's only because there were times where he was picking things up super fast and was able to work independently. I'm really happy with choosing a more rigorous pre-algebra curriculum now. The DVTs are helpful to preview, but not completely necessary. For the majority of the time I'm right there explaining things and asking questions.

 

I really love all of the built-in review, both chapter and cumulative. I like hoe the lessons build and I like that they always throw in some decimal and fraction problems and include some multi-step problems. They also have a problem at the beginning of the exercises that makes them explain what steps they are taking or shows them why. I always make sure to add those into his assignments.

 

Also, they always restate the rules really simple in a blue box. I have ds write those in his math journal, for reference and to help cement the rules.

 

This site has full samples of Lials. They used to have the 8th edition to preview, but I can't find it. There is the 9th and 10th editions, so you can at least see how they are set up.

Could you tell me the quality of the videos? Are they in comparison to Saxon Teacher?

Also, how long are they?

[Murrayshire]

Thanks for clarifying that for me, Plum Crazy!

[Murrayshire]

I'm back!

 

Still trying to decide what algebra we will use next school year.

I came across an interesting book today called No-Nonsense Algebra by Richard W. Fisher. Each lesson has a video taught by him online. Has anyone used this before? I wonder also how this compares with TT Algebra. Since she has taken Alg using TT, do you think using the No Nosense after TT would be just as good or enough as using Foresters or Lial's? It sure would save me some money! I don't want to cut corners...... But sometimes the simplest things turn out to be the best!

 

http://www.amazon.com/No-Nonsense-Algebra-Mastering-Essential-Skills/dp/0984362991/ref=pd_sim_b_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=1346N5EQ74Y6MRY358PH

[mom31257]

I'm using his Book 1 as a review for ds right now. I had a question about the sequence of some of his books, and he emailed me back with his phone number and offered to talk with me personally I did call him, and he was very nice. I like the book I'm using right now because it's simple and straight forward. From the looks of the table of contents, I think it would be a good, basic review of Algebra. 

 

 

[Murrayshire]

I'm using his Book 1 as a review for ds right now. I had a question about the sequence of some of his books, and he emailed me back with his phone number and offered to talk with me personally I did call him, and he was very nice. I like the book I'm using right now because it's simple and straight forward. From the looks of the table of contents, I think it would be a good, basic review of Algebra.

If you don't mind sharing, what questions did you have about the sequence and what was his response? My 5th grader is just about finished with TT6......this may be what I need for her as well!

😊

[mom31257]

If you don't mind sharing, what questions did you have about the sequence and what was his response? My 5th grader is just about finished with TT6......this may be what I need for her as well!

😊

 

I wondered if the sequence was Book 1, Book 2, then Pre-Algebra. He said it really depends on the student and how strongly the student finishes a book. He suggested using the topic books Geometry and Problem Solving in addition to any of the other books. I think I could have used Book 2 with my son instead of Book 1, but I've got it and going to finish it.  

 

I am using Book 1 now doing 2 or 3 pages a day. He has liked the speed wheels, and I had really left facts practice behind and am glad it got me doing it again. He needed to be faster with some of them. I will buy Book 2 when he finishes Book 1, but I don't think I'll buy the Pre-Algebra book because of other things I'm using. I'll only buy a topic book if there is an area he needs extra practice. 

 

I'm also going to be using these little gems I found over the next year or so, too. The CLE books take topic lessons from several grade levels and put them into one book. I'm going to use all 3 of those. 

 

Hands On Geometry

Christian Light Math Skills Workbooks

 

After finishing all of those, I'm going to try and evaluate him and see if it's time to move on to Algebra. I don't want to rush it because I want the reasoning skills to be there and not just the operations. I didn't do Algebra 1 until 9th grade and had an almost 100 average. I went on to get a math degree having only gone through Pre-Calculus in high school. My skills were so solid, though, because I was truly ready for it. I hesitate doing Algebra in 7th because of my own experience. 

 

I would like to use Patty Paper Geometry and Understanding Geometry as well, so I might do a combined Geometry/Algebra 1 over 7th and 8th. Ds loves anything we do with geometry, so that's some of my reason for adding it in so much. I would love an entire math curricula teaching all of the math skills needed but in the scope of geometry. Maybe I'll have time some day to write one! 

[Murrayshire]

Another vote for Lial's. We love it! Well, I do at least. ;) It's very straightforward. We bought the text, student solutions and the DVTs. We didn't use the DVTs until around chapter 3 or 4. That's only because there were times where he was picking things up super fast and was able to work independently. I'm really happy with choosing a more rigorous pre-algebra curriculum now. The DVTs are helpful to preview, but not completely necessary. For the majority of the time I'm right there explaining things and asking questions.

 

I really love all of the built-in review, both chapter and cumulative. I like hoe the lessons build and I like that they always throw in some decimal and fraction problems and include some multi-step problems. They also have a problem at the beginning of the exercises that makes them explain what steps they are taking or shows them why. I always make sure to add those into his assignments. 

 

Also, they always restate the rules really simple in a blue box. I have ds write those in his math journal, for reference and to help cement the rules. 

 

This site has full samples of Lials. They used to have the 8th edition to preview, but I can't find it. There is the 9th and 10th editions, so you can at least see how they are set up. 

 

I've been looking through the Lials book, which is the 9th edition.  Is the 8th edition similar to the 9th edition?

I can order the 8th edition pretty inexpensively on amazon.

Thanks!

[Murrayshire]

I understand your concern. Well, to be honest, I'm not sure, since my DS hasn't actually started it yet; like I said, it is what we'll be doing next. So feel free to ignore me since I have no real experience. :laugh: Here's a link to a page of algebra suggestions written by Maria Miller (creator of Math Mammoth). Here's part of what she says about Foerster algebra (and, having used Math Mammoth 4-6, I trust her opinions):

 

"With Foerster, you can definitely "hear" a teacher speaking to you through the text. The book is written to the student, with excellent, sometimes even pedantic, explanations. The text often includes little tips like what a classroom teacher might say, such as "the vinculum is supposed to extend over here" or illustrations why something cannot be done.

 

Foerster's algebra goes fairly deep into the usual topics of algebra 1. The book includes both basic and challenging exercises, including lots of word problems. It is an excellent textbook when it comes to explaining mathematics. Foerster's approach is very analytical and logical, relying on mathematical thinking—which can be very good for students who are going into sciences.

 

The main difficulty I can see for homeschooling parents is that some of the exercises are quite challenging. Thus, Foerster's book may be too difficult for some students."

 

So I hope those details might be helpful in deciding whether it could be a good fit for your DD.  I don't see why one couldn't reduce and/or skip some of the most challenging word problems if they prove to be too difficult for a particular ("average") student, as referenced in the review above. No need to throw out the baby with the bathwater, esp. when the program has good, clear teaching.

 

 

I mentioned Foerster with Math Without Borders since your DD has gone through TT Algebra already, so perhaps using a curriculum like Foerster might not be as daunting as it might be for a student with a different background. Plus the MWB videos, which cover several levels, so you'd be set for a good while or maybe all through high school. You can also buy the complete solutions manual and a test book if you want them. Foerster is visually clean and uncluttered, which is a plus for us but not for some folks, and is directed at a high school audience, not a remedial college text. 

Maybe you could elaborate on the specifics of why you want to do another year of algebra 1? What did you feel was lacking, or what features would help your DD more the second time? Hope you get more BTDT advice.

 

 

TarynB, dd did not like the looks or voice of the Math Without Borders cds.  I'm still trying to decide.

 

I pulled up Chalkdust Algebra.....she watched one of the demos and really liked it....unfortunately it is waaaaay expensive.  Could possibly look for used editions......

[chiguirre]

The Dana Mosely Chalkdust videos are now online here for Alg 1:

 

http://www.algebrawithinreach.com/ea6e/content/instructional-videos/chapter-1-2/section-1/introduction-to-real-numbers/

 

I bought the fifth edition of Larson's Algebra 1 for less than $5 (it has a basketball player on the cover). I like that the chapter tests can be torn out and used as.....chapter tests. The facing pages are fluff, so you're not ruining the book. I'm not sure I'll use the book, but the price is right and I may need the back-up if we go the Discovering Mathematics route.

 

ETA: Someone originally posted the video links here. I can't remember who, but THANK YOU to whoever it was! This is an awesome freebie!

[Murrayshire]

The Dana Mosely Chalkdust videos are now online here for Alg 1:

 

http://www.algebrawithinreach.com/ea6e/content/instructional-videos/chapter-1-2/section-1/introduction-to-real-numbers/

 

I bought the fifth edition of Larson's Algebra 1 for less than $5 (it has a basketball player on the cover). I like that the chapter tests can be torn out and used as.....chapter tests. The facing pages are fluff, so you're not ruining the book. I'm not sure I'll use the book, but the price is right and I may need the back-up if we go the Discovering Mathematics route.

 

ETA: Someone originally posted the video links here. I can't remember who, but THANK YOU to whoever it was! This is an awesome freebie!

Interesting!

I did notice that the videos are super short though. I assume these wouldn't be lesson videos but just supplemental? Thank you for posting it!

[chiguirre]

Interesting!

I did notice that the videos are super short though. I assume these wouldn't be lesson videos but just supplemental? Thank you for posting it!

The videos are super short, but so are the text blocks they cover. The book is divided into very small chunks with problem sets after every section of 5-10 mini-topics (or videos). I also have the DVD version of the combined algebra and that's also divided up into many, many sections. I haven't used the book yet so I'm not sure if the explanations are enough or not.

 

AOPS also has videos up to accompany their algebra text and they're not very long either.

[KarenNC]

Take a look at the free, fully online, at your own pace Saxon algebra 1 course offered the Virtual Homeschool Group. We've almost finished it and it seems to be working well. My daughter prefers the voicethreads there to the Art Reed videos we used for algebra 1/2. She reads the lesson, watches the voicethread (works similarly to Khan Academy), then has the choice to do the online problem set or the one from the book (she tends to prefer the one from the book, which I have to check, over the online ones which are automatically graded), and does the online tests (computer-graded) when appropriate. Students have one chance at the tests, but can do the problem sets as often as needed, and explanations are provided. They offer regular office hours if students need additional help. You can sign up now to look at it for yourself to see if it might work. They are doing other levels as well.

http://www.virtualhomeschoolgroup.com/course/category.php?id=65  for the Algebra 1

http://www.virtualhomeschoolgroup.com/course/category.php?id=98 for the other levels available (currently being built, no not totally completed)