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As my kids get older, my thoughts on education are changing.  I'm just thinking out loud here, hoping for some help with my scattered thoughts.

 

Would you consider this a thorough education?  Would a child educated in this manner, through high school, be ready for college?

 

Reading lots of books.  Biographies, history books, religion, art books, science books, classics, tons and tons of reading and discussion.

A good math program.

A good foreign language program.

A few in-depth research papers on a subject that interests the student.

Listening to some classical music.

 

No handwriting past learning cursive.

No grammar workbooks (Andrew Pudewa commented that the best way to learn grammar is to study Latin--eek!).

No science experiments beyond some fun kitchen science type things.  No science program.

No spelling program.

No geography program beyond access to a good atlas to look up things from the reading.

 

I look at the list at the top and I think it would be a lovely way to educate an entire family.

 

I watch my kids use workbooks and they are totally scamming the system!  It is so easy to fill in the blanks without really learning anything.

 

I'll confess that I bought the workbooks because they are easier on me.  Open the book, fill in the blanks, check it and move on.

 

I'm scared to death about high school transcripts but I've heard two speakers in the last week talk about how easy it is to write a good transcript based on whatever you are doing.  Isn't a transcript just like a resume?  Everyone uses buzz words to inflate what they have accomplished.  Plus, I hate the idea of doing stuff just so it can go on a transcript.

 

Thoughts??

 

 

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As my kids get older, my thoughts on education are changing.  I'm just thinking out loud here, hoping for some help with my scattered thoughts.

 

Would you consider this a thorough education?  Would a child educated in this manner, through high school, be ready for college?

 

Reading lots of books.  Biographies, history books, religion, art books, science books, classics, tons and tons of reading and discussion.

A good math program.

A good foreign language program.

A few in-depth research papers on a subject that interests the student.

Listening to some classical music.

 

No handwriting past learning cursive.

No grammar workbooks (Andrew Pudewa commented that the best way to learn grammar is to study Latin--eek!).

No science experiments beyond some fun kitchen science type things.  No science program.

No spelling program.

No geography program beyond access to a good atlas to look up things from the reading.

 

I look at the list at the top and I think it would be a lovely way to educate an entire family.

 

I watch my kids use workbooks and they are totally scamming the system!  It is so easy to fill in the blanks without really learning anything.

 

I'll confess that I bought the workbooks because they are easier on me.  Open the book, fill in the blanks, check it and move on.

 

I'm scared to death about high school transcripts but I've heard two speakers in the last week talk about how easy it is to write a good transcript based on whatever you are doing.  Isn't a transcript just like a resume?  Everyone uses buzz words to inflate what they have accomplished.  Plus, I hate the idea of doing stuff just so it can go on a transcript.

 

Thoughts??

 

What you list at the top sounds like a good education.  I'd add the ability to write well in a wide range of genres, not just research papers.

 

What I bolded doesn't sound like a good education.  I think you answered your own question?

 

ETA:  I was thinking about this as an elementary education, and I still think it sounds pretty good for K-8.  Others, obviously, have commented on whether it is a college-prep education for high school age kids.  My kids are young, so I was looking at it through that lense.

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Well I think it depends. What does the child want to do in college?

If they want to major in science or engineering. That isn't going to cut it. Also a major in arts would need more practical experience as well I would think.

I would absolutely not have been prepared for college with that education. I needed in depth science education, beyond just reading books, before going to college.

Not that you have to have a science curriculum necessarily, but you definitely need a lot more than just reading about it.

I could have completely skipped the foreign language and classical music. (Although I believe foreign language was required for college, it was not useful for me in college)

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Honestly, no I don't. Why no science? If your children are scientifically illiterate, they'll be vulnerable to all kinds of scams and weird claims, some of which are dangerous. Knowing the scientific method, what it is, how it works, how it is applied, and learning how to apply it is a skill in logic and rational thinking. I'm no fan of teaching science myself (actually I don't - I outsource it), but it's a necessary skill if your kids are going to grow up to be critical thinkers and protect themselves from any bullsh*t artist who comes along with an enchanting story. 

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I'm also going to say no. Aside from the lack of science that others have noted, I see some issues. Are the research papers reports or persuasive essays? Essays are critical for college. How about note-taking and test-taking skills? You also have to have those skills in place to be successful in college. And while some students are natural spellers, many more are not and will require a spelling program to become proficient writers. This is true of grammar as well. Some students "catch" grammar by reading good books but others need direct grammar instruction to write well, especially at the upper levels.

 

This educational plan is heavy on lovely concepts and soft on necessary skills. A good education will contain a healthy mix of both.

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Why can one only get a good education with a science "program"?


I don't think anyone said a science "program" is required. But only reading does not make one educated enough in science to pursue science at a college level.

Of course if the student has absolutely no interest in pursuing science or engineering, or science related humanities such as anthropology or psychology, then reading is probably sufficient.

Personally I think if someone really wants to be prepared for college they need to develop a lot of practical experience in their general field(s) of interest. Reading simply isn't enough. Since individual field of interest differ the plan for a good education will differ as well.
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No science? Not even nature study? Science doesn't have to be workbooky or even textbooky, but I think the method and the curiousity/observation factors are too good to miss.

 

Anyway, I think it is a good start, keep in mind not all kids are going to "catch" good spelling / grammar from reading lots of books. Some will need direct instruction. Also assuming the kids are *doing* things in their free time - not sitting passively. So the non-school hours could be just as (or more) important as the official school hours.

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I don't know. It makes me uneasy. Why does it need to be all reading vs. all workbooks? Granted, my kids are only in 3rd and 6th grade, but we don't use workbooks for much, yet we do focus on geography and spelling and grammar, etc. We use other things besides workbooks.

It sounds like you're tired of "workbooks" so you're reacting too far the other way.

But then again, this is all so subjective. It sounds easy and like fun to do what you're going to do, but I, personally, would be nervous about whether it was a good education that would prepare them for college.

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Sorry, I was unclear. Lots of science just no science program (Apologia, RS4K, etc.).

And, if a child is interested in science as a career, we would persue that interest with reading and some reports (or whatever looked interesting to the child).

I'm leery of gearing a high school education toward career interests--most people change their minds at some point.

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Sorry, I was unclear. Lots of science just no science program (Apologia, RS4K, etc.).

And, if a child is interested in science as a career, we would persue that interest with reading and some reports (or whatever looked interesting to the child).

I'm leery of gearing a high school education toward career interests--most people change their minds at some point.

 

Ah, gotcha. In that case, you'd want to be careful to incorporate the many details and concepts that are provided in a science program. That's why they exist - so the home educator doesn't have to reinvent the wheel. You might find something to use as a guide to make sure you don't miss anything important, and also consider CW's point about labs for transcripts and credit. 

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As my kids get older, my thoughts on education are changing.  I'm just thinking out loud here, hoping for some help with my scattered thoughts.

 

Would you consider this a thorough education?  Would a child educated in this manner, through high school, be ready for college?

 

Reading lots of books.  Biographies, history books, religion, art books, science books, classics, tons and tons of reading and discussion.

A good math program.

A good foreign language program.

A few in-depth research papers on a subject that interests the student.

Listening to some classical music.

 

No handwriting past learning cursive.

No grammar workbooks (Andrew Pudewa commented that the best way to learn grammar is to study Latin--eek!).

No science experiments beyond some fun kitchen science type things.  No science program.

No spelling program.

No geography program beyond access to a good atlas to look up things from the reading.

 

I look at the list at the top and I think it would be a lovely way to educate an entire family.

 

I watch my kids use workbooks and they are totally scamming the system!  It is so easy to fill in the blanks without really learning anything.

 

I'll confess that I bought the workbooks because they are easier on me.  Open the book, fill in the blanks, check it and move on.

 

I'm scared to death about high school transcripts but I've heard two speakers in the last week talk about how easy it is to write a good transcript based on whatever you are doing.  Isn't a transcript just like a resume?  Everyone uses buzz words to inflate what they have accomplished.  Plus, I hate the idea of doing stuff just so it can go on a transcript.

 

Thoughts??

No, I wouldn't think that would prepare a student for College, although it would be lovely if it did.

If you have a natural speller, then you could drop spelling earlier.  If you had a natural writer (fiction and non-fiction) you could loosen the reins and let them discover their own voice.

I think more then a few papers would be needed though. Maybe a few essays (1-3 paragraphs for Elem, 5+ M.S. and multiple pages for upper H.S.)  (descriptive, persuasive, expository) and some fiction each year with length and difficulty increasing with grade level.  Plus to get good at something it needs to be done regularly.

 

 The Science is for me the real sticking point.  IMHO to do well in College (even an Arts major has to take some Science) you need to do at least Biology with a lab.  Prefer Chemistry too.  I could see doing a Conceptual Physics for an Arts major.  If you don't like Science or they don't like doing Science with you , could you farm it out?  They might enjoy Science in a group setting.

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Sorry, I was unclear. Lots of science just no science program (Apologia, RS4K, etc.).

And, if a child is interested in science as a career, we would persue that interest with reading and some reports (or whatever looked interesting to the child).

I'm leery of gearing a high school education toward career interests--most people change their minds at some point.

 

I have no problem with this conceptually, but I think the reality is that unless you are a scientist, you will not be able to provide a rich enough science background without the help of some sort of program, textbook, book, something, although what that something looks like doesn't have to be Apologia, RS4K etc.

 

When your student gets to high school, as someone else mentioned, they will need a minimum of 2 sciences w/labs for almost any college application. For more selective colleges or STEM careers, they may need 3 or 4 lab sciences.

 

I think the idea of no science program but lots of science study can work wonderfully through elementary levels and even into middle school. I think it is difficult at best at the high school level and may leave your student at a serious disadvantage.

 

We are not a workbook family. The only subject we have ever used them for is vocabulary. We have done lots of Sonlight. We love reading. I think lots of strong and varied reading along with a good math program will get you a long way. If it will get you far enough, depends on where you or your kids want to go.

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I think it *could* be good enough for the student who was 8th grade and below but I don't think it cuts it for HS. Also, I'd be leary of assuming spelling, writing and grammar not being explicitly taught, for some that works and for others it does not.

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I've only just started looking into homeschooling high school so I am a bit clueless.  For labs on the transcript, isn't it just a line that says, "Biology 1 Lab"??  Do they ask for specifics.

 

On the grammar, I went to Andrew Pudawa's talk on teaching grammar at a hs convention.  He said that the best way to learn English grammar is to study a foreign language especially Latin.  My kids have done grammar programs all through elementary school.  They get all the answers right but I wouldn't say that they are good at grammar.  His statement made me wonder if we should really focus on Latin as a family to increase our grammar knowledge.

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You said no science beyond reading and fun kitchen science... that wouldn't qualify as lab based science, that I'm aware of, and most colleges require lab based science... as a previous poster pointed out, even for non-science majors.

 

I wouldn't be comfortable with the plan. They need to know how to write more than a research paper, they need more science than literature and kitchen fun, and many children need explicit grammar and spelling instruction.

Sorry, I was unclear. Lots of science just no science program (Apologia, RS4K, etc.).

And, if a child is interested in science as a career, we would persue that interest with reading and some reports (or whatever looked interesting to the child).

I'm leery of gearing a high school education toward career interests--most people change their minds at some point.

 

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Possibly, but that would be deceitful.

Even on a CC level, I was lost in college biology, as I hadn't taken a real bio course or bio lab in high school - and I'm not illiterate on any level. I never did pass the college level bio class.

I've only just started looking into homeschooling high school so I am a bit clueless.  For labs on the transcript, isn't it just a line that says, "Biology 1 Lab"??  Do they ask for specifics.

 

On the grammar, I went to Andrew Pudawa's talk on teaching grammar at a hs convention.  He said that the best way to learn English grammar is to study a foreign language especially Latin.  My kids have done grammar programs all through elementary school.  They get all the answers right but I wouldn't say that they are good at grammar.  His statement made me wonder if we should really focus on Latin as a family to increase our grammar knowledge.

 

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I've only just started looking into homeschooling high school so I am a bit clueless.  For labs on the transcript, isn't it just a line that says, "Biology 1 Lab"??  Do they ask for specifics.


Homeschool transcripts typically list materials used. Kitchen science wouldn't cut it for fulfilling a lab requirement. Virtual labs may or may not depending on the particular school.

Now if your goal for your students is to start at CC and then transfer (which is common among HSers in my area), you wouldn't need to worry about science labs.
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Possibly, but that would be deceitful.

Even on a CC level, I was lost in college biology, as I hadn't taken a real bio course or bio lab in high school - and I'm not illiterate on any level. I never did pass the college level bio class.

 

I'm sorry, what would be deceitful?

 

I'm asking, when you fill out a high school transcript for a college, does the college have any specifics as to what qualifies as a Biology 1 lab credit? 
 

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For writing transcripts and understanding what colleges are looking for (and therefore, what kinds of options there are for each year)  this is a great resource.

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-High-School-Handbook-Junior/dp/0966093771/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397162897&sr=8-1&keywords=high+school+handbook+schofield

 

I did notice you incldued science books at the top of your list, so I'm not sure why some are suggesting you didn't include science. While I don't think you need a science program, I do think you need to cover science carefully. I suggest starting with The Pleasure of Finding Things Out by Richard Feynman.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Pleasure-Finding-Things-Out-Richard/dp/0465023959/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1397164403&sr=1-1&keywords=the+pleasure+of+finding+things+out

 

(Chapter 8 What is Science? is excellent for parents teaching their kids.) Reading about the history of each branch of science, biographies about the greatest scientific minds (how they thought and what they did) and books on scientific thought/philosophy/methodolgy are important too. Be sure to include stastistics and error analysis-a huge gap most American kids have when they enter college.

 

Not all kids are natural spellers.  Some need instruction.

 

I don't believe that Latin in the best option for teaching English Grammar. You can learn English Grammar using English. Using Latin is a huge investment with the same amount of payoff you could get with less investment by doing it in English. 

 

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And, if a child is interested in science as a career, we would persue that interest with reading and some reports (or whatever looked interesting to the child).

I'm leery of gearing a high school education toward career interests--most people change their minds at some point.

 

Science is highly competitive here.  The whole area is flooded with SAT and AP tuition for Biology, Physics and Chemistry.  .If your child is interested in science as a career, I won't want to shortchange the child. At least have the experience of doing a science fair project for middle school. Here it is the norm in schools to do a compulsory science project in 5th grade.

 

I don't understand what you mean by gearing a high school education toward career interests.  For California, there is the A-G requirements which would give kids quite a broad variety of career choices going forward.

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I'm sorry, what would be deceitful?

I'm asking, when you fill out a high school transcript for a college, does the college have any specifics as to what qualifies as a Biology 1 lab credit?


Yes I think they do. Biology 1 at a minimum would involve dissection, more than once. Also microscope work would be a must. And plant science experiments would be assumed as well.

A science major just must have lab science experience. This does not have to be through a specific curricula, but it is absolutely necessary, or the student will suffer in college. Science major first year college classes assume you know the basics of dissection, microscope use, can operate Bunsen burners, flasks, pipettes etc...


And when I said previously that a student should have practical experience in general fields of interest, I was not referring to specific careers. But really experiential learning is so important. For example in high school I took all science courses offered, I was on the science team and I volunteered at the hospital. I also worked at a library, was involved in yearbook and the school paper, and do a lot of drama/theater type activities through my church. I had 2 general areas of interest, science/medicine and verbal expressive arts. I just didn't see any experiential learning in your ideal list. But I see you may have been focussing on the idea of curriculum so that might be why :)
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I think you have proposed a very good education. If you want to do something more guided for science as some have suggested, check out Science Scope by Kathryn Stout. It is a scope & sequence arranged by topic with information to be learned at the elementary, middle school and high school levels. I think it is quite thorough, although I am not a scientist. As far as the concern with biology goes, the necessity of it depends upon the college and the chosen major. My science in college was astronomy. I never darkened the door of the biology building.  

 

Please take advantage of the freedom you have in homeschooling. You don't have to do high school like any other person does high school. Don't educate for the sake of having something on a transcript. Don't make college your "god."  Don't be intimidated by the way other people do things. Find the way that works best for your family. Be flexible. 

 

Can you tell I have a lot of regrets about how we have spent the high school years? Maybe I'm writing a cautionary tale for you  :laugh:.

 

 

 

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Would you consider this a thorough education?  Would a child educated in this manner, through high school, be ready for college?

 

Reading lots of books.  Biographies, history books, religion, art books, science books, classics, tons and tons of reading and discussion.

...


No science experiments beyond some fun kitchen science type things.  No science program.

...

I'm scared to death about high school transcripts but I've heard two speakers in the last week talk about how easy it is to write a good transcript based on whatever you are doing.  Isn't a transcript just like a resume?  Everyone uses buzz words to inflate what they have accomplished.  Plus, I hate the idea of doing stuff just so it can go on a transcript.

 

No. A student educated in this manner would NOT be ready for college. Reading books about science is fine for grades 1-8. In high school, a systematic science program is absolutely necessary. Many colleges require that at least some of the science courses are courses with a lab.

 

As for transcripts: no, you should not inflate what you are doing, and no, most people are not inflating, but accurately representing what they are doing. If a college requires biology, chemistry and physics, just reading some on fiction books and labeling it "physics" won't cut it.

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Yes I think they do. Biology 1 at a minimum would involve dissection, more than once. Also microscope work would be a must. And plant science experiments would be assumed as well.

A science major just must have lab science experience. This does not have to be through a specific curricula, but it is absolutely necessary, or the student will suffer in college. Science major first year college classes assume you know the basics of dissection, microscope use, can operate Bunsen burners, flasks, pipettes etc...
 

 

Biology isn't the only science course that has labs. Dissection isn't necessary unless the student is headed for a career in life science (that's my personal opinion). Never in my life have I had to know what the insides of a worm, frog or fetal pig looks like. Not doing biology labs didn't keep me from doing a good job on my chemistry and physics labs and lab reports for the classes I took later in high school. My son has never dissected a single thing. He writes good, solid lab reports for his chemistry teacher. There are high schools around the country that simply don't have the funds to provide any labs to their students and they go on to succeed in college. I took astronomy in college, not biology. Your student may never need to take a biology course in their lifetime. 

 

There are always ways to catch up with what you don't know when you get to college. Who cares if it takes an extra semester?  Ninety minutes in a lab with a tutor will orient a student to all of the equipment and how to operate it - it isn't that hard. If you must dissect - one will do you. It isn't hard either. Each professor will specify the format that is to be used for lab reports and will state what information needs to be included - follow the instructions thoroughly and clarify anything that's unclear. A department may have a specific way they want their labs written up, or it may be up to each individual professor, but they don't keep it a secret. Many times they will let you look at sample lab reports so that you know what they want you to emphasize. That's what office hours are for - the student can use them wisely. 

 

Don't panic over science, or any other subject for that matter and try not to make your educational decisions based upon "what-if" scenarios. It's hard to do that when you see what others around you are doing, but swim against the tide - you can do it! 

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Why can one only get a good education with a science "program"?  

 

Depends on your definition of "program".

 

Why can you get a good math education only with a math program"? Because you need a certain systematic order and sufficient practice, and almost all people are not able to teach high school math without a program of some kind.

 

Ditto for science. Reading about science is not sufficient, you also need to develop skills and practice problem solving. Thus, you need materials that facilitate such learning - and those are your "program".

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No. A student educated in this manner would NOT be ready for college. Reading books about science is fine for grades 1-8. In high school, a systematic science program is absolutely necessary. Many colleges require that at least some of the science courses are courses with a lab.

As for transcripts: no, you should not inflate what you are doing, and no, most people are not inflating, but accurately representing what they are doing. If a college requires biology, chemistry and physics, just reading some on fiction books and labeling it "physics" won't cut it.


Clearly I've said something that gave the wrong impression that I plan on making fake transcripts. That is not the case.
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How about note-taking and test-taking skills? You also have to have those skills in place to be successful in college. 

 

These skills can be picked up by a motivated student on the fly - it isn't hard to figure out how to take notes or take tests. Lots of helpful people in study centers, etc. that will help students if they need it. 

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I've only just started looking into homeschooling high school so I am a bit clueless.  For labs on the transcript, isn't it just a line that says, "Biology 1 Lab"??  Do they ask for specifics.

 

That is not the point. There is a certain canon that is understood as "high school biology", and by calling your course "biology with lab", you are creating the impression that a certain content has been covered in a certain manner.

To NOT do the course and simply list it on the transcript is dishonest. The college may not notice, but I surely would not want to teach my child: that it is OK to lie on official documents and pretend to have accomplishments that one does not have. I would also be concerned what message that sends to my teen about the way I am dealing with my responsibilty for his education: I know I should have done x, but did not, so I simply claim he hast studied x - and he has to live knowing that his transcript  does not represent his studies. Not a burden I would wish to put on a 17 year old. I would like to model personal integrity on all levels.

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Well I think it depends. What does the child want to do in college?
 

 

The typical 14 year old entering the high school years has no idea what they want to do in college. They shouldn't be made to feel like they have somehow dropped the ball if they choose to do something different. The road to college isn't always a straight path. Sometimes it's the detours that provide the most memorable educational experiences. 

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That is not the point. There is a certain canon that is understood as "high school biology", and by calling your course "biology with lab", you are creating the impression that a certain content has been covered in a certain manner.
To NOT do the course and simply list it on the transcript is dishonest. The college may not notice, but I surely would not want to teach my child: that it is OK to lie on official documents and pretend to have accomplishments that one does not have. I would also be concerned what message that sends to my teen about the way I am dealing with my responsibilty for his education: I know I should have done x, but did not, so I simply claim he hast studied x - and he has to live knowing that his transcript does not represent his studies. Not a burden I would wish to put on a 17 year old. I would like to model personal integrity on all levels.


Wait, what?? Where did anyone suggest making up classes?? I'm just curious how much detail goes on a transcript. I don't buy for a second that every public high school Biology 1 class is great with labs and dissections.
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Homeschool transcripts typically list materials used.

 

 

I disagree. A transcript, regardless of whether it comes from the parents or from an outside agency, is commonly course titles, grades earned, credits earned. Course descriptions might include materials used, but not a transcript.

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Wait, what?? Where did anyone suggest making up classes?? I'm just curious how much detail goes on a transcript. I don't buy for a second that every public high school Biology 1 class is great with labs and dissections.

 

No, but when they say "biology with lab", they will have covered certain areas of biology in a systematic manner and not just read a few books, and when it lists "lab", they will have a lab. Not all science courses are lab courses., and not all biology labs must have dissections.

 

The details go into the course descriptions and not on the transcript.
the more selective a school is, the more likely that you will want to submit course descriptions. Some colleges are requiring documentation that labs have taken place; there is a current thread on the College Board.

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Wait, what?? Where did anyone suggest making up classes?? I'm just curious how much detail goes on a transcript. I don't buy for a second that every public high school Biology 1 class is great with labs and dissections.

 

No one suggested making up classes. I think some just might not have considered that there are "out of the box" ways to teach science. There are plenty of high schools that don't have the resources to do one dissection, let alone multiple dissections. 

 

Transcripts don't have much detail at all - name of course, grade, credits earned - that's it. There are a variety of ways to arrange them - some do it by date the courses were taken, some do it by subject. Inge Cannon has a great transcript boot camp - I'm pretty sure you can get it on CD. She has good ideas for tracking what was covered in a course and how to write transcripts. There are many others as well - Debra Bell is another one that comes to mind. 

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I keep looking for the canon.  I have yet to find it.

 

I don't completely disagree with the sentiment, but I really don't think there is a high school biology canon.

 

I think there is. The focus can be shifted, but a modern high school biology course nowadays is supposed to cover cell biology (photosynthesis, cellular respiration, lots of biochemistry), genetics, evolution, form and function of organisms. Classification which was heavily emphasized decades ago is no longer a main focus (but may still be taught). You could also have an environmental focus. But from what I know, the first few topics are pretty non-negotiable.
 

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No, but when they say "biology with lab", they will have covered certain areas of biology in a systematic manner and not just read a few books, and when it lists "lab", they will have a lab. Not all science courses are lab courses., and not all biology labs must have dissections.

 

There is no required set of standards for what must be in a biology course. NSTA has established some standards, but they aren't required by law. States and/or school districts adopt them independently. For good or bad, education simply isn't this uniform throughout our country. 

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Wait, what?? Where did anyone suggest making up classes?? I'm just curious how much detail goes on a transcript. I don't buy for a second that every public high school Biology 1 class is great with labs and dissections.

 

I am more reading this thread for entertainment/information as I don't have an informed opinion about High School really, yet...But I did feel the need to say that my high school biology class involved no dissection what so ever. I don't recall many labs at all, other than one involving making sauerkraut.   I did dissect the requisite frog and worm in 7th grade in a different school district.  I also had an excellent chemistry class with a real lab and a physics class with an okay lab...in which the instructor pretty much wanted to guarantee an "easy A" for all the students by giving away answers for the tests while we were taking them.  :thumbdown:

 

The result (not just of this...but of my so-so math education and my general ability level in math and science) was that I "failed out" of engineering by getting a D- in the first physics class for Engineers...but then changed my major to English and easily aced every class in that major and loved it.   I don't think I was really cut out to be an Engineer in the first place though, even if I would have had better math and science in high school.

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I keep looking for the canon.  I have yet to find it.

 

I don't completely disagree with the sentiment, but I really don't think there is a high school biology canon.

 

Well, here is a sort of canon. Adoption of these standards has by no means been done in every area of our country, though. 

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Science is highly competitive here.  The whole area is flooded with SAT and AP tuition for Biology, Physics and Chemistry.  .If your child is interested in science as a career, I won't want to shortchange the child.

 

I am also concerned about a child who does not yet know whether he may be interested in a science or engineering career. Deciding not to teach science in high school pretty much closes the door for this student to find out whether he has interest and aptitude - he may never discover that he would have loved chemistry of he does not have an opportunity to experience chemistry.

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I have no problem with this conceptually, but I think the reality is that unless you are a scientist, you will not be able to provide a rich enough science background without the help of some sort of program, textbook, book, something, although what that something looks like doesn't have to be Apologia, RS4K etc.

 

 

These are myths that many people who don't homeschool believe - that mom isn't qualified and that you must use textbooks. Don't believe it. Think outside the box. We can do this! 

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I'm sorry, what would be deceitful?

 

I'm asking, when you fill out a high school transcript for a college, does the college have any specifics as to what qualifies as a Biology 1 lab credit? 
 

 

I can't speak for that, as I haven't yet had a child reach that age, but I'm pretty sure calling kitchen play/science (in your post you stated no experiments beyond that), doesn't qualify as a highschool lab.

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These skills can be picked up by a motivated student on the fly - it isn't hard to figure out how to take notes or take tests. Lots of helpful people in study centers, etc. that will help students if they need it. 

 

Several of my sorority sisters would disagree with you. They were never taught how to do either in high school and got some very unpleasant grades during freshman year. Some even transferred to less difficult colleges or left college altogether because they just didn't have the skills to keep up in classes and didn't know how or weren't motivated enough to seek support while living on their own for the first time. I agree that a motivated student could figure it out but why put them at a disadvantage from the outset? Why shouldn't they already have these skills going in so they can move forward focusing on content and taking advantage of all the other opportunities college offers?

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Wait, what?? Where did anyone suggest making up classes?? I'm just curious how much detail goes on a transcript. I don't buy for a second that every public high school Biology 1 class is great with labs and dissections.

 

We live in one of the worst states for education - and even our high schools have full labs.
 

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