John versus Sarita's philosophy/style and how it affects the IGs

[matrips]

I have been an off/on Sonlight user for several years and am also looking at Bookshark. I keep hearing about how people like John Holzmann and dislike how Sarita's manages the company. Can anyone fill me in on what this means? I'm getting the sense that the IGs have changed quite a bit in the part few years since she took over? If so, how have they changed? Most of my IGs probably predate that.

I'm looking at either Sonlight Core D or Bookshark Grade 3 for next year. Since the landmark books have apparently changed for the better, I'm interested in a new IG to go with the new versions. (Unless it won't matter?).

If it makes a difference, we are Christian (Catholic), old earth, and don't necessary need religion in every subject.

Thanks for anyone that can expound on this for me. I guess I've been out of the loop for awhile.

[ktgrok]

bump

[Momof3]

:bigear:

 

I thought the IGs have been much improved... That's the sense I've had from what I've read/heard. Very curious to hear from SL users on this!

[Crimson Wife]

Not a SL user, but there was a big controversy over how the IG's became much more Providential in tone a few years ago. The impression I got was that they went from being more generically Christian to pushing one particular "flavor" of Christianity.

[Momof3]

Hmm. Interesting. How do you mean 'Providential'? 

[Crimson Wife]

Providential as in God has specially blessed America and everything that has happened is part of His plan. See: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/267734-so-what-exactly-is-providential-history-can-you-give-examples/

[pmaria80]

I'm very interested in this as well since I have just bought one core from Sonlight but have been reading quite a bit about differences between the two leaders.  Would love to hear if somebody has the information!

[Laura Corin]

When John was in charge, SL seemed quite open to other 'good people'.  He was a member of a Yahoo group for secular users of Sonlight and used to make helpful suggestions.  I felt quite at home there and on the SL boards.

 

When Sarita took over, I started to receive letters describing members of other religions who lived in 'spiritual slavery' and 'bondage' and 'knew no joy'.  This was not an attitude that I wanted to be associated with.

 

L

[boscopup]

I think John ran the company better, BUT... I don't trust his notes after his own comments here on the forum in a previous thread. He was writing notes about history and had never heard of Stockholm Syndrome? That just floored me. He seems to read some odd tidbit and believe it without checking its veracity. That's a bit scary in a curriculum writer.

 

That said, I used an old Core D (it was actually "Core 3"... I think from 2003, iirc), and I LOVED the OLD version of the Landmark books, as did my then 3rd grade son, though I can see how those books might be above the head of the average 3rd grader.

 

The Providential stuff comes in in the books added to Core D a couple years ago. The notes in the IG to counter the readings are about as long as the readings themselves! It's really quite ridiculous that they would use a book that they know to be so full of errors. The books in Core D are From Sea to Shining Sea and The Light and the Glory. These are books previously in very old cores, but they were removed for good reason and John wrote extensively about that reason. Then they ignore John's reason for removing them and put them back! :tongue_smilie:

 

Another downside to recent cores is that they now force you to buy the LA (that upped the price of the IGs by about 50%), and their LA is awful.

 

[staceyobu]

I'm also confused by this. Everyone seems anti-Sarita/pro-John. But wasn't john responsible for the odd theories on Jews settling in the US and the slavery bit? I'm wondering if any of those things are revised in bookshark.

I would love to purchase sonlight without the LA, though.

[Laura Corin]

I'm also confused by this. Everyone seems anti-Sarita/pro-John. But wasn't john responsible for the odd theories on Jews settling in the US and the slavery bit? 

 

You're right - I was basing my impressions on what I was aware of when I was involved with Sonlight.  I only heard of 'John's odd theories' later.

 

L

[forty-two]

I think John ran the company better, BUT... I don't trust his notes after his own comments here on the forum in a previous thread. He was writing notes about history and had never heard of Stockholm Syndrome? That just floored me. He seems to read some odd tidbit and believe it without checking its veracity. That's a bit scary in a curriculum writer.

 

 

I'm also confused by this. Everyone seems anti-Sarita/pro-John. But wasn't john responsible for the odd theories on Jews settling in the US and the slavery bit? I'm wondering if any of those things are revised in bookshark.

 

I've never used SL, but I followed John's blog for a few years - here's my random musings.  JH had a very open mind - he was willing to take seriously almost any view, enough to research it and see for himself whether there might be anything to it.  I think he was a bit extra open to contrary views - the very fact a minority view was vilified was enough to catch his interest and kinda slightly predispose him to wanting to find *something* valid in it.  In fact, I think overall he wanted to find something worthy in any viewpoint out there - if one person passionately believed and defended something, he wanted to *understand* why it mattered to them, and in understanding it he had a bit of sympathy toward it, however "out there" it was compared to "accepted" views.  It made him an interesting blogger, one who had a ton of intellectual honesty and respect for contrary views.  But at the same time, I sort of got a sense that those good traits weren't balanced enough by a critical skepticism - that he sometimes crossed the line between being *open* to anything and willing to *believe* anything.

 

IDK, random thoughts I have as I've read various WTM threads on John vs Sarita.

[forty-two]

WRT why the general sentiment here sometimes seems to be pro-John and anti-Sarita, I'd guess it has to do with how JH wasn't scared of interacting with contrary views, and in fact iirc that used to be a selling point of SL - to read a variety of POVs and discuss them in light of the family's beliefs, instead of sheltering kids from them.  But SH, from reading about stuff here, seems to be far more on the sheltering side, which really does go against both JH's approach and the approach of most people here.  It is rather a jarring change, and takes away most of the SL appeal for me.

[llifeon18wheels]

I'm a SL user and to tell the truth, we read the in-depth questions in the IG with a grain of salt. My husband and I enjoyed the commentary of the books because it brought up topics for conversation. We don't agree 100% with everything that was written but we also didn't agree with the answers to the book questions 100% either.

While I think it's admirable that the company has worldview causes, it was never why I chose them. I don't have the "calling" in my heart that they say they do but it was neither here not there for us. The old Landmark book was awesome and we did Core D and E before it was replaced. I loved it. I would've wanted the new version.

In the end, I've chosen Sonlight for the books. Pure and simple. All that other stuff has no impact in it. I have had my eyes opened to so many new companies and products through this forum and so now, it's even more that I only use them for the books.

I've not read any of John's writings. I've read Sarita's newsletter (The Beam) and other blog posts form SL contributors.

[matrips]

Thanks for the responses to mull over.