changing words when reading- vision issue?

[mom2Hh]

for the short version of my questions just read the first 1-3 paragraphs!

 

 

I'm wondering if anyone has insight about the causes of some reading issues.  When my son reads aloud I notice that he changes some words (they still mean the same thing) or sometimes leaves out an unimportant word (can't think of an example. He seems to notice when he leaves a word out and depending on his mood he'll reread or say it or just keep going).  He also inserts words that aren't there (that make perfect sense- could be the way something is usually said but in this case that particular word wasn't in the reading). 

 

editing and adding this from my reply below:

 

ok- I guess I can't copy and past so you can see my examples of insertions and substitutions in my reply below.

 

further background: He reads fairly well aloud but seems to hate to and doesn't do it often.  He learned to read with hooked on phonics (he loved it so we kept going).  He did not finish the hooked on phonics master reader but thinks it's too easy now.  He used to read the hooked on phonics readers with great expression.  Then for a time he was reading other books aloud without much expression and saying some of the words while drawing in breath.  hard to explain.  Now his expression is so-so. might depend on his mood. ?  I do notice that he reads fast (not too fast expression wise) and I think his eyes are darting ahead or to next line.  Now I notice I do that too and can quickly dart ahead to see how it is saying something so I can do the right voice.  or to see what's coming next.  not sure he's darting ahead for those reasons though.

 

I'm wondering if he should see a behavioral/developmental optometrist.  Or if this is just some other sort of reading issue.  Or if it's not a problem to worry about if he's inserting words that mean the same thing.  But there are times when the author's exact words should be what is read and understood.

 

He will go off and read for long periods of time occasionally.  He seems to not like to put books down if he does like them.  Today I encouraged him to read the Indian in the Cupboard (something I've never read myself but heard it was good and now in hindsight I wish I had read it or found out more first).  It has a tiny font an lots of words on the page.  He read the first two chapters (which is a lot of reading considering the font size).  After I was asking him to tell about it (narrate- which he hates to do) and he had some odd behavior. At first he said "a boy has a birthday and gets a skateboard." that's it. (but there was some anger and he really didn't want to talk about it and I didn't understand why.)  I coaxed.  As he told me he smiled and seemed like he enjoyed the story.  I asked questions to get more details.  then suddenly he got angry and teary eyed and said it was a dumb book and he wasn't going to read more.  there were some big feelings.  I couldn't understand it. It was quite strange from my point of view.  I'm not sure if he felt he couldn't answer my questions well enough and I shouldn't have asked so much.  I wasn't looking for tiny details.  ?  Or if the story was scary or disturbing. ? he said no.  later I wondered if he felt it was hard reading and felt like he couldn't remember enough.  maybe he had been struggling with it. ?

[In the Rain]

I'm not sure what to make of the emotional outburst over The Indian in the Cupboard, but I think the other reading issues sound normal. I've noticed most fluent readers substitute small words when reading aloud (the/a/that). Are those the kind of substitutions you are talking about? I've talked to my kids about times exact word choice is important- reading aloud for a running record, poetry, quoting, etc. It doesn't bother me in casual reading situations though. I think sometimes the brain fills in those small words while the eyes are looking ahead. Being able to scan ahead while reading out loud seems to help fluency.

[Lolly]

What he is doing is actually a sign of a good reader. Substitution of appropriate words is very normal and to be expected when reading aloud. You probably do it yourself without realizing it. The temper tantrum over the book? Who knows. Kids are just weird sometimes!

[mom2Hh]

I'm working on a response with the examples of his substitutions and insertions right now... 

 

[mom2Hh]

I'm not sure what to make of the emotional outburst over The Indian in the Cupboard, but I think the other reading issues sound normal. I've noticed most fluent readers substitute small words when reading aloud (the/a/that). Are those the kind of substitutions you are talking about? I've talked to my kids about times exact word choice is important- reading aloud for a running record, poetry, quoting, etc. It doesn't bother me in casual reading situations though. I think sometimes the brain fills in those small words while the eyes are looking ahead. Being able to scan ahead while reading out loud seems to help fluency.

 

no, I'm talking other words.  I'll think of some examples and edit my original post as well as add them here. 

 

Ok- here's an example"

the sentence in a book states "It was late when Peter and his family got home."  He might read it as: "It was late when Peter and his family got  back home." 

added in the word back.  I made that up but that is similar to a word insertion he might do.

 

a substitution example might be... I'm having a hard time thinking one (I have a terrible short term memory!).  he might substitute silly for funny.  or ok- really having trouble thinking of specific examples.

It just seems odd to me that he would say a word that is not there.  Why isn't he saying the word that really is on the page?  (I'm not talking the little at, the, it etc.)

also weird because he's a perfectionist so I would think he's want to read the words exactly as they are written.

[Forget-Me-Not]

What he is doing is actually a sign of a good reader. Substitution of appropriate words is very normal and to be expected when reading aloud. You probably do it yourself without realizing it.

This.

My oldest did this too. He'd get the gist of the passage, but he'd rephrase things. My MIL is a teacher and something of a reading specialist, and she assured me that it was an excellent sign that he was tracking ahead while he read. But at the same time, reading aloud well is an important skill (and a different skill from reading silently to one's self), so we'd have him stop and go back and re-read carefully. It mostly went away on its own. We are religious and read scriptures together every night as a family. This turned out to be a good exercise for it because the scriptural syntax tends to be unique and they have to pay more careful attention to the words they're reading aloud.

[mom2Hh]

This.

My oldest did this too. He'd get the gist of the passage, but he'd rephrase things. My MIL is a teacher and something of a reading specialist, and she assured me that it was an excellent sign that he was tracking ahead while he read. But at the same time, reading aloud well is an important skill (and a different skill from reading silently to one's self), so we'd have him stop and go back and re-read carefully. It mostly went away on its own. We are religious and read scriptures together every night as a family. This turned out to be a good exercise for it because the scriptural syntax tends to be unique and they have to pay more careful attention to the words they're reading aloud.

 

thank you.  I should consult my MIL again- she was also a reading teacher!  I like your info on reading scripture.  That was in the back of my mind in a different way.  That if he ever reads scripture to a group (church, Sunday school, etc.) he should really be reading the exact words (there are already enough translations out there! LOL).  But I never thought of it like you said- having him read scripture aloud could help in that it might force him in a way to read it exactly as it is written (not familiar terminology with easy substitutions that come to mind)

[Lolly]

no, I'm talking other words.  I'll think of some examples and edit my original post as well as add them here. 

 

Ok- here's an example"

the sentence in a book states "It was late when Peter and his family got home."  He might read it as: "It was late when Peter and his family got  back home." 

added in the word back.  I made that up but that is similar to a word insertion he might do.

 

a substitution example might be... I'm having a hard time thinking one (I have a terrible short term memory!).  he might substitute silly for funny.  or ok- really having trouble thinking of specific examples.

It just seems odd to me that he would say a word that is not there.  Why isn't he saying the word that really is on the page?  (I'm not talking the little at, the, it etc.)

also weird because he's a perfectionist so I would think he's want to read the words exactly as they are written.

 

 

It really is a good thing. His brain/eyes are further ahead than his mouth. Result, not reading the exact words. If it bothers you, you could ask him to read a small section aloud carefully paying particular attention to exact wording. But, if he is reading longer passages aloud, it shows good reading skills to add/substitute words. It really is okay and very acceptable. Reading each word individually aloud as his eyes come to it is not a good way to read. It results in less comprehension. He is grasping a larger picture than the single word.

[ElizabethB]

I would have him take some of the diagnostic tests on my website. It could be a vision problem, or it could be a bit of a guessing problem from the sight words and incomplete phonics in HOP.

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/readinggradeleve.html

[mom2Hh]

It really is a good thing. His brain/eyes are further ahead than his mouth. Result, not reading the exact words. If it bothers you, you could ask him to read a small section aloud carefully paying particular attention to exact wording. But, if he is reading longer passages aloud, it shows good reading skills to add/substitute words. It really is okay and very acceptable. Reading each word individually aloud as his eyes come to it is not a good way to read. It results in less comprehension. He is grasping a larger picture than the single word.

 

Part of me thinks of it positively as well.  But he sometimes has trouble narrating/telling me about what he read.  He'll sit down to read his God World News magazine (written at his grade level) and will tell me tidbits of what he read but if I ask him a question about it he often can't answer it.  Sometimes with books I can't tell if he just hates narrating or he is missing things.  And I don't ask detailed questions.  And yet he's a kid who from early on if he had an outing he would retell every single thing in the exact order he did them in. 

[Lolly]

Part of me thinks of it positively as well.  But he sometimes has trouble narrating/telling me about what he read.  He'll sit down to read his God World News magazine (written at his grade level) and will tell me tidbits of what he read but if I ask him a question about it he often can't answer it.  Sometimes with books I can't tell if he just hates narrating or he is missing things.  And I don't ask detailed questions.  And yet he's a kid who from early on if he had an outing he would retell every single thing in the exact order he did them in. 

 

If he is reading orally easily, making only mistakes that do not change the meaning of the story, he is probably reading just fine. I would wonder if his difficulty narrating and answering questions about something he has read on his own has to do with his interest in the material. Is he reading it, or just skimming through? Maybe try getting some reading comprehension books and see how he does with those passages and questions. There is always the possibility that while he is reading the material correctly, he is not processing the information within. In other words, he is JUST decoding. I would doubt that with the types of mistakes he is making. They sound more like he is holding the information he has already read as he is scanning ahead for the next bit to come.

[Clpretzel]

I replace words with synonyms without realizing it all the time. For me it's actually because I am a visual spatial learner and not an audio sequential learner. I've always been a great reader with fabulous comprehension. The first time I saw it as a problem was when I had to memorize a longer passage, and I kept memorizing the synonyms instead of the text. Another weakness that I have that I think might be related is the inability to remember idioms correctly. I see the picture of the idiom in my mind and say some form of it that is often the synonyms (i.e. Rip a carpet/cut a rug). If one of my kids takes on these tendencies, I don't plan on focusing on it.

[alef]

I substitute words sometimes when reading aloud, it just happens. Not a problem in my opinion.

[Incognito]

I have two readers who do what you are describing - one does it because they are a fluent reader and there is no problem, the other is not a particularly fluent reader and there are problems.  In the problem case, we do have some vision issues, and we're not sure if addressing vision will make the difference or not.

 

FWIW, if you thought he was a good reader before, it probably isn't a problem.  If he has always changed/substituted words, even when they are obviously not the right word, then I'd look deeper into the problem.

 

 

[kiwik]

I bet you do it too. I also can't remember everything I've read either.

[mamabear2three]

I wonder if he would also have the emotional outburst over things that you read to him and have him answer questions about? It could be an issue of narration/retelling rather than reading.

 

I used to be a special education teacher and I only wish my students would have made substitutions like you are mentioning (my daughter does - which, teaching her, an advanced reader, has been quite fun after my background of working with LD kids!) Mistakes they often made: pause in the middle of sentences instead of at punctuation and guess at words based on some part of the word that caught their attention - so reading home for horse or strong for song. The problem is they would keep reading and not realize that they had misread it... no comprehension at all, or very little. So non-meaning changing miscues? Those I don't worry about. self-corrected miscues? Those I don't worry about either because it shows they are comprehending what they are reading.

 

I will say that in my experience, the ability to retell a story is a lot more difficult than the ability to read fluently.