Educating the unmotivated, intellectually uncurious child

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

It always amazes me the difference in what I say and what my daughter hears. I know it happens in criticism. She will get mad at me and yell that I said that she was fat (she has the ideal figure!) or stupid (she's gifted!!) and I'm left baffled and have to ask for specifics and it's usually some stretch of the imagination. Also, one comment either misconstrued or said without thinking can offset 1 million compliments.w/ this particular child.

 

(My Asperger kid takes me at face value and doesn't try to read into what I said and doesn't read judgment into me pointing out something -that 's one thing that is easier there lol)

 

This child does not do that (as far as I know, maybe she internalizes it?), but my youngest!!! Oh yes. Definitely something to watch!

 

We finally had to have a heart to heart about his future.  We wrote out a budget for the cheapest living possible with a minimum wage job explaining that even today people want the high school diploma or GED minimum.  We asked him what he wanted...phone/cable/car/clothes/travel?  He soon realized that he couldn't even have a phone on minimum wage.  Much less a car.  Or a life.  We were very honest about his life and we could not allow him to just live for free at 18 under our roof if he chose this path.  It was painful to see him wrestle with reality that he can't be lazy and survive outside our home.  <snip>

 

I'm snipping, but that was all good advice. The interesting thing is that this kid is energized by the idea of her future--college, job interviews, work she finds interesting--but she's not energized by anything that will lead her to any of that! Of course she is young, and I don't expect her to know what she wants her to do with her life. But yes, good life skills are something I plan to focus on while we take this break from formal schooling. 

 

I've been reading "How to talk so your kids will listen and listen so your kids will talk." The say to avoid praise. It can be dicey. Too much praise can apply too much pressure, or come off an insincere, etc.

 

I read it when my kids were little and it didn't help me much then (they just never responded in the ways the book said they would!), but I always meant to read it again when they were older. Adding it to my list...

 

My 9 year old is like this. We've only been home educating for 8 weeks and it's very quickly devolved into what you describe. Running through the list of things I was thinking about I can see most has already been covered. I do have one suggestion but I want to add the caveat that I'm not an advocate of labelling unless it's helpful. Have you thought of looking at PDA? If your daughter is like this over every demand (or perceived demand) that's made of her outside of education as well as during then it might be worth at least reading about.

 

Thank you, I did look that up. Thankfully, she doesn't fit any of the diagnostic criteria I found, but someone else mentioned something similar to me, so I will be watching more closely for signs of anything similar.

 

I wonder if kids grow out of this when they are slightly older? Say 14, or so?

 

Heavens, we can only hope :lol:

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

OK, that is what has been percolating in my head all week since I first posted about this :lol: I didn't manage to respond to everyone, but every reply helped me sort this through. I really appreciate the responses. I truly think I will print this thread out and re-read it periodically. Even just reading through it again a week later has reminded of some important things I'd already forgotten!

 

Thank you all.

[stm4him]

I'm a little late coming in here but I also could have almost written your original post. I really think that part of it must be the age. It was really hard for me in her 5th grade year when these traits really began to cause trouble in our relationship. It broke my heart in some ways. And I still often don't know what to do with her and often want to throw up my hands and quit with her education. My other children are sooooo different, but I've never had a twelve year old so maybe there will be more similarities than I realize when my second child gets that age. Here are some things I am exploring with mine:

 

1. attention and learning issues (these have always been there and we've never medicated her but I want to look into supplements and nutrition more)

 

2. food allergies (taking away gluten has helped, but I think dairy might also be having an impact)

 

3. sleep issues (she is always tired and I know from experience that when I am mentally tired it is hard to be motivated to do anything, even for a voracious reader like me). We're working on trying to go to bed when it gets dark and get up when it is light so she can wind down better at night.

 

4. the age/phase (reading Oliver DeMille on the transition to scholar phase in Leadership Education was helpful)

 

5. remembering to be grateful for the things she does right and tell her so (our tendency is to point out all the things she does wrong because we expect so much)

 

6. remembering to physically love on her more and spend time in the moment just talking about whatever (not turning everything into a talk about what to do about this or that or the pressure of the future, etc.) One on one time with Mom or Dad can do the trick sometimes.

 

7. offering for her to start a club of her own design, which she must be completely responsible for (purchasing supplies within a budget, cleaning the house, writing invitations, planning and leading the activities, etc.). This sparked interest in her and it went very well.

 

8. allowing her to sign up for a challenging program that I don't think she is ready for. She is determined to go to Challenge A next year and I have no idea how she is going to pull it off but she will either learn what it is to fail or learn what it takes to succeed. Sink or swim. I sometimes worry about how this will all play out when I can't get her to finish her regular assignments some days, but if she is motivated to do it, I'm going to let her try and tell her I believe she can do it!

 

9. cutting assignments back to basics: math, writing/grammar (in one program), and reading. All independently. If she wants to drag that out ALL day, she can, but she is wasting her free time. We give suggestions about getting up early and attacking, but she will have to choose to do that. She earns no privileges if she doesn't get it done. Also, she has one main chore, which is to clean her bathroom and closet daily (she shares them with 4 little sisters). We took many other chores away so she could focus on schoolwork. She already knows how to do almost every chore around here anyway. We put the ball in her court. She knows exactly what is expected of her daily and she can do it quickly and get it done and spend her free time how she likes, or she can waste her day which only punishes herself. Either way, I will not nag or stress. Or at least, I am learning not to.

 

10. changing my "dream" education for her. I have other children that I hope will be able to handle other languages and enrichment, but for her I just need to get through the basics. She will do some Latin at CC but she may just be memorizing the vocabulary instead of actually translating sentences next year. But if I study other languages hopefully it will inspire her. I rest knowing that whatever The Lord has for her to do, He will perfectly prepare her for. One thing is for sure. She can NOT say that we did not provide the time and resources for her to get an excellent education. If she wastes that she will have to live with that. But I think that we have instilled the foundation of a character that will cause her to realize at some point what she is doing and hopefully make different choices. But until that happens I just have to pray and trust and love her through her faults. The worst thing I can do is cause her to resent me because she doesn't feel we accept her for who she is.

 

I do think a realistic talk about the future in detail is a good idea, but right now she wants to be an actress and a singer. I am afraid to tell her that isn't realistic (cause what do I know of her future). But she does know she'll need another job and it would be good to lay out what that is going to take and the hardships that can be caused by not having a degree of some sort. But it is the kind of conversation that needs to be prepared ahead of time with facts to show and then dropped afterward unless she has questions (which I'm guessing she will).

 

I also forgot to say that we did take some time off for awhile over Christmas and required nothing. We did not push for awhile. Sometimes I was pleasantly surprised, but mostly I was disappointed. I think it was worth doing, but then afterwards we got back to work but I only required the basics. I do try to remember that she is still a child, despite the fact that her feet are bigger than mine, and allow her to be a child when the inclination hits for her to just play.

 

I also found that she is not motivated when she feels "behind". When she found out she could go ahead and go to Challenge even though she wasn't in the right math book she was motivated. She is not motivated by her math book because it is below her grade level even though that is really where she needs to be. She acknowledges that it is the right math curriculum for her and she understands not jumping ahead, but I think she will be more motivated when she gets to a book that she deems is the "right" grade level.

 

Sometimes I think she has a touch of depression. For kids who live in their own little world I think the reality of getting older with more academic pressure is daunting. We had a rough year with a brother with cancer, a move away from family and friends, a miscarried twin, puberty, etc. and she just shut down emotionally. This year I have seen her do much better than before but every now and then she still seems to be wrestling with life not being how she would like it to be. I think this is normal for all kids.

[Pen]

Also, we found some films like the Ben Carson Story helpful.

[Pen]

...

1. attention and learning issues (these have always been there and we've never medicated her but I want to look into supplements and nutrition more)

...

 

Of possible interest to you: http://doctorvolpe.com/add-adhd/vitamin-b3/

[abrightmom]

Subbing so I can find this again….GREAT thread.