Sonlight does it again

[quietchapel]

Has anyone seen the new SL website? Any chance it is a bad April Fool's joke?

It appears as though they are totally abandoning their long- held marketing position of 'teach multiple children together'. It's all by grade level. I think I'm just giving up on that company permanently. They are certainly free do to as they wish with their business, but the most recent changes are frustrating for me- and confusing as it seems they are wanting to change their image.

 

Oh well! :confused1:

[Angie in VA]

What the what? I haven't received my free catalog yet. I sent in that post card thing a few weeks ago. I don't order from them anymore, hence, I don't automatically receive the print catalog. 

 

Going over to their site now to see how in the world they've made it harder to use now.

[Chris in VA]

I think they are struggling a bit to find their footing now that Sarita is fully in charge.

[quietchapel]

I think they are struggling a bit to find their footing now that Sarita is fully in charge.

 

That may be. It is kind of sad, but I wondered when I noticed the copious, glaring errors in the IG's. I can't fathom a new family choosing to actually purchase from the website when it appears that grade 5 is around $800.

[clarkacademy]

seems they are all over 800 1st thru 5th and heck k is 739

[Angie in VA]

I see that they suggest that you talk w/ an advisor if you have more than one child to help beef it up (or down) for another child.

 

I hate it when things change for the worse. *Sigh*

[Prairie~Phlox]

There's too much competition with homeschooling curriculum to make costly mistakes. Haven't they heard the term, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

[quietchapel]

There's too much competition with homeschooling curriculum to make costly mistakes. Haven't they heard the term, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

 

No kidding! Their niche has been literature- rich, multi- age teaching. I bet another company will step in quickly to fill that niche.

[Kathryn]

Oh, yikes. I didn't think the website could get more user-unfriendly. I assume you can still choose LA and Readers levels in the early years, but from the website, that doesn't seem to be the case at all. When you click on individuals subjects, they are automatically included with the history and bible according to grade level. I flipped through the catalog quickly when it came and it didn't seem all that different from previous years, but you're right about the website.

[ebrindam]

There isn't even really mention of Cores anymore. What the heck? Oh I see it...you have to log in. 

[Angie in VA]

It's sad to see something that was once so good self-destruct. OK, maybe that's harsh, but the changes of the past few years have NOT been improvements IMO.

[ByGrace3]

I don't know what is up with SL...it does seem they are in an identity crisis. Both sides of the fence are complaining....Sarita is making it too "conservative Christian" for some, and Luke's blog posts have ticked "this conservative Christian" off so much I don't want to buy from them anymore. They need to decide who the are before they run everyone off.

And yeah the new website focused on grade...meh. It was difficult to find the cores...

[EmilyGF]

Before sites like Amazon, selling a great booklist and schedule was wonderful. Now, not so much. (Though I found the schedule really jumpy.)

 

Instead of repackaging the booklist, they should work on beefing up the guides to include in depth discussions. That's where the value needs to be nowadays, IMO.

 

Emily

[Laura Corin]

I objected on moral grounds to a letter that Sarita sent out some years ago.  It took me a long time to get removed from their mailing list.

 

L

[...................]

I like the idea of individual grades, but I hate how they constantly change things. Who are they? What are they selling? I really can't keep up anymore.

[Dory]

They still have a computer thing that pops up to help you figure out how to select material for a combination of ages together. I had to go over there and look even though I don't use Sonlight and can't see myself ever going that route.

[umsami]

Wow…it wasn't like this when I visited them maybe a week or two ago.

 

Reminds me of Calvert…just pick a grade.

 

I wish they'd sell their supposed secular homeschool option packages to the public, rather than just to charters.

 

I appreciate their wonderful books.  I'd love to support them.  But they've turned me off completely with the recent changes.  Also, I remember being really annoyed that they wanted me to buy a complete Core including a book I already had. I asked them if they could just subtract the cost of that one book, and they said "no."  Thus, instead of losing $15, they lost hundreds.

[shawthorne44]

 

 

I appreciate their wonderful books.  I'd love to support them.  But they've turned me off completely with the recent changes. 

 

I totally agree with this.  I was really looking forward to buying a core.  

About half of P3/4 had been in my childhood library, so I was able to buy the rest for around a $100.  

We were ready for P4/5 but then they wanted extra money for their reading and bible program since they'd made them mandatory.  It wasn't that much extra money, but it made me mad.  It also made it easier to cobble together what I needed for cheaper, even buying new from Amazon.  We have the bible study thoroughly covered, and I hate the disconnected scripture passage method of bible study, and she was already beyond the reading program.  I also figured at this age, we don't really need a schedule.  

But, I really thought we would eventually be able to buy a Core and be happy with it.  But it just keeps getting worse and worse. Maybe in a year or so they will realize the error of their ways and change.  

 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I wish they'd sell their supposed secular homeschool option packages to the public, rather than just to charters.

I was disappointed they didn't offer this either.

They've changed from the company they were when my oldest was in K. We no longer will support them.

[mom2scouts]

When I started homeschooling four years ago, I started with a Sonlight Core and I loved it.  My reluctant reader became a passionate reader and history lover thanks to Sonlight books. I have Cores A-E on my shelves and I'll continue to use them for my youngest child, but I don't know if I'll be buying any more Cores. I will purchase the consumables for the Cores I have and maybe even a few of the newer books since we read so much, but that may be it.  I wasn't happy when they included LA in the Core.  I had already picked LA that I wanted to use and my children are usually a bit too advanced for the SL LA or the grade level readers. I dislike having to pay for something I never use.  We used to do the 5 day program and then they added providential history books that I just didn't feel right about using, so I had to piece together enough for day 5.  I had a son going into middle grades, so this is a good time to change our approach and our curriculum for him.

[swellmomma]

I only buy the timelines from them when I need one for a kid, so the one I am ordering for dd6 will be the last thing I buy from them.  I use older versions of the cores that I either got as a "hand me down" or that I found at a thrift shop or used book sale.  I have refused to buy any IGs from them a few years back when they made the LA part of the required package.  I don't like their LA.  This new change is so stupid and the website is a pita now to use, the one they were using up until now was very user friendly and while I refused to buy any more IGs from them I was still left drooling about them, but not anymore.  The part I liked most about them was that there was no grade levels, so my kids whether below average, average or above average could all learn together without anyone feeling like they were failing.  I have been drooling over TOG for a long time now, this may just be the push that gets me to jump in (so far since I have so many older versions of SL IGs.  SO disappointing to see yet another change for the worst.

[Angie in VA]

I got the catalogue though I have been banned permanently from their forums.  They have the worst marketing in the world.

 

 

I objected on moral grounds to a letter that Sarita sent out some years ago.  It took me a long time to get removed from their mailing list.

 

L

 

OK, there are stories there, but I won't ask. I do have a friend who is Catholic (I am not) who was told not to post on one (or all?) of their forums. 

 

I haven't been on their forums for years. I don't know if I could access them now if I wanted to. *SIGH*

[AnnaM]

I seem to be the odd ball but I found the site very easy to navigate? I liked how they divided it by core and grade level as it gave me an insight into about where each core fell. I will piece the package I want together myself as I do think they are quite expensive, but over all I am just not seeing these big changes that everyone else does. It looks pretty much the same as it did a few years ago to me other than the LA being added in. I don't know if I will use that or not since I have never seen it (we used an older core the last time we did SL), but that really doesn't bother me that much. That said, I know nothing of the behind the scenes stuff so maybe my view is not jaded by that?

[Vida Winter]

 

I appreciate their wonderful books.  I'd love to support them.  But they've turned me off completely with the recent changes.  Also, I remember being really annoyed that they wanted me to buy a complete Core including a book I already had. I asked them if they could just subtract the cost of that one book, and they said "no."  Thus, instead of losing $15, they lost hundreds.

 

They don't own the rights to 99% of those books - anyone can buy them from Amazon and many other places. There are a handful that are available just from SL. For goodness sake, many of them are Newberry award winners and have been around for ages, read by thousands of children. I'm just ticked enough to start a competitive site, with my own guides and book selections. I've already done this to a certain extent for my own children; maybe it's time to open it up to others.

[umsami]

They don't own the rights to 99% of those books - anyone can buy them from Amazon and many other places. There are a handful that are available just from SL. For goodness sake, many of them are Newberry award winners and have been around for ages, read by thousands of children. I'm just ticked enough to start a competitive site, with my own guides and book selections. I've already done this to a certain extent for my own children; maybe it's time to open it up to others.

 

I know…and often I do…but I do believe in supporting people whose work I use.  They came up with a very good selection of books, and if I could support them in good conscience, I would. 

 

I also would love to have discussion guides and the like…although perhaps not with the changes of the past few years.

 

I was never given grief on the forums for being Muslim, but then again, I don't know how much that was known and I don't remember doing more than a few posts. 

[ForeverFamily]

Wow their website is really confusing now.  I was seriously thinking about using sonlight for next year.  I think all these changes made my decision for me.  Oh well.  Back to researching.

[Chava_Raizel]

They don't own the rights to 99% of those books - anyone can buy them from Amazon and many other places. There are a handful that are available just from SL. For goodness sake, many of them are Newberry award winners and have been around for ages, read by thousands of children. I'm just ticked enough to start a competitive site, with my own guides and book selections. I've already done this to a certain extent for my own children; maybe it's time to open it up to others.

 

This is one of the reasons I started writing my lit-based guides. ;)

[ktgrok]

I only buy the timelines from them when I need one for a kid, so the one I am ordering for dd6 will be the last thing I buy from them.  I use older versions of the cores that I either got as a "hand me down" or that I found at a thrift shop or used book sale.  I have refused to buy any IGs from them a few years back when they made the LA part of the required package.  I don't like their LA.  This new change is so stupid and the website is a pita now to use, the one they were using up until now was very user friendly and while I refused to buy any more IGs from them I was still left drooling about them, but not anymore.  The part I liked most about them was that there was no grade levels, so my kids whether below average, average or above average could all learn together without anyone feeling like they were failing.  I have been drooling over TOG for a long time now, this may just be the push that gets me to jump in (so far since I have so many older versions of SL IGs.  SO disappointing to see yet another change for the worst.

TOG doesn't work for us, but at least they are good people to work with/buy from. I was totally impressed when I saw that they actually tell you what you can just borrow from the library, how to find in your library a similar book, help with the purchase of used books, etc etc. Good for them. 

[WishboneDawn]

OK, there are stories there, but I won't ask. I do have a friend who is Catholic (I am not) who was told not to post on one (or all?) of their forums.

I haven't been on their forums for years. I don't know if I could access them now if I wanted to. *SIGH*

Doing a search for Sonlight should bring up a couple of big thread that cover those issues and make for some interesting reading.

[quietchapel]

This is one of the reasons I started writing my lit-based guides. ;)

 

I was thrilled when I stumbled upon your work. I have the narration cards- they are great! I've suggested Build Your Library to numerous friends.

[...................]

To me, the changes two years ago were worse, when they began strongly tying the Language Arts into the Core.  First of all, they know people don't like their LA so they tied it together to sell more of the LA.

 

Second of all, it's super confusing.  Last year I called to try to place my kids, and the whole experience was so frustrating it's what drove me back to Calvert.  They kept saying, that I could use the same LA with two kids, two years apart.  I kept saying, that my son is very far advanced of where my daughter is, so how could that be?  And they kept saying that I would just require more, and expect more of the older child.  Then I kept asking what exactly was covered, and they would respond, telling me that both cores would prepare a 6th or 7 grader for HIGH school Writing.  SO, if this is acceptable to prepare a 7th grader for 8th grade writing, then how is it also acceptable for my 4th grader?  

 

So, then I tried to find out if I could split the LA and that was only available up to 3rd grade.  So according to this logic, after 4th grade, all Cores work for all children!   Perfect.

 

???  Very confusing and to tell the truth, I think they should separate OUT the LA again and label the LA by grade, but the COres by Core.  Isn't that how it was years ago?  THat made way more sense.

[quietchapel]

My issue is not whether the new website is difficult to navigate. My issue is that the website reflects an almost entirely different product identity, which, in combination with the many other changes of the past few years, causes me to distrust the company. Yes, one can find ways to combine children. However, the site gives the impression (to me) that SL is primarily for grade- level teaching, while for the past many years SL has marketed itself as a program for teaching several children at once. It would be like if Well Trained Mind suddenly promoted itself as waldorf. Also, because there have been so many constant changes,  I feel like I can't trust SL  will 'be there' in the future. It's sort of like when someone is a job- hopper, never staying in one occupation and developing a reputation of being unreliable. This is how Sonlight feels to me now. Since 2010, the company has shifted identity so much that I don't find it reliable any longer.

[quietchapel]

To me, the changes two years ago were worse, when they began strongly tying the Language Arts into the Core.  First of all, they know people don't like their LA so they tied it together to sell more of the LA.

 

Second of all, it's super confusing.  Last year I called to try to place my kids, and the whole experience was so frustrating it's what drove me back to Calvert.  They kept saying, that I could use the same LA with two kids, two years apart.  I kept saying, that my son is very far advanced of where my daughter is, so how could that be?  And they kept saying that I would just require more, and expect more of the older child.  Then I kept asking what exactly was covered, and they would respond, telling me that both cores would prepare a 6th or 7 grader for HIGH school Writing.  SO, if this is acceptable to prepare a 7th grader for 8th grade writing, then how is it also acceptable for my 4th grader?  

 

So, then I tried to find out if I could split the LA and that was only available up to 3rd grade.  So according to this logic, after 4th grade, all Cores work for all children!   Perfect.

 

???  Very confusing and to tell the truth, I think they should separate OUT the LA again and label the LA by grade, but the COres by Core.  Isn't that how it was years ago?  THat made way more sense.

 

Yes, yes, yes. I found it a bit.....manipulative, I guess, when LA was tucked inside the cores. I also find it disturbing that Luke seems to show up in the comments on any blogs that discuss Sonlight. I was looking for more diverse perspectives on the program some time ago. For all the less- than- favorable reviews I found, Luke had posted somewhere in the comments. It was just odd. That has nothing to do with the new website, but still....

[Butter]

Yes, yes, yes. I found it a bit.....manipulative, I guess, when LA was tucked inside the cores. I also find it disturbing that Luke seems to show up in the comments on any blogs that discuss Sonlight. I was looking for more diverse perspectives on the program some time ago. For all the less- than- favorable reviews I found, Luke had posted somewhere in the comments. It was just odd. That has nothing to do with the new website, but still....

 

Quite a few companies do that.  I never thought about how or why until we were friends with a guy who was paid, full time, to search for places on-line where -whatever- brand (there were several he and the company he worked for did searches for) was mentioned.  Then they would notify someone else and they would go and do damage control or whatever.  The point was to attempt to neutralize anything negative for a company's image.  It was kind of creepy.  Even our friend thought it was kind of creepy.  But that's pretty much what Luke does.  I don't know if they employ a company like my friend worked for.

[...................]

Definitely creepy.  

 

But I personally think it's a marketing thing with Sonlight.  

 

I think they know that those who are loyal customers will pretty much remain so (the forums, the reputation, the great books, the cult following feel to it, and they like the Cores.)

 

But changing it up like this every year seems to be a huge part of their marketing scheme.  New people, and new conversations (just like this very one) every year, to make more traffic which will draw in NEW customers who have not previously used the program. 

 

So guess what?  I can make a prediction!  Next year there will be another BIG change that will get people talking and looking at their website.  

 

(I am not a hater.  I like SL and I think it's a viable, useful option and am glad they exist and i haven't ruled out ever using it again.  BUt for now, the confusion is definitely a turnoff.)

[JustEm]

wow! I looked at the sonlight website last week and it was like this.  There was certainly more emphasis on grade level but you could still find the cores also.  I was considering sonlight for next year with my first grader but luckily found connecting with history before I made my decision.

[quietchapel]

Definitely creepy.  

 

But I personally think it's a marketing thing with Sonlight.  

 

I think they know that those who are loyal customers will pretty much remain so (the forums, the reputation, the great books, the cult following feel to it, and they like the Cores.)

 

But changing it up like this every year seems to be a huge part of their marketing scheme.  New people, and new conversations (just like this very one) every year, to make more traffic which will draw in NEW customers who have not previously used the program. 

 

So guess what?  I can make a prediction!  Next year there will be another BIG change that will get people talking and looking at their website.  

 

(I am not a hater.  I like SL and I think it's a viable, useful option and am glad they exist and i haven't ruled out ever using it again.  BUt for now, the confusion is definitely a turnoff.)

 

I was reading this and thinking, "Oh, yeah, she's right! So.... Sonlight is like the Kardashian homeschool company" 

[quietchapel]

Oh- and there was a blog post by Luke saying they are moving away from cores. Whatever. I just need a homeschool company with less drama.

[ByGrace3]

Oh- and there was a blog post by Luke saying they are moving away from cores. Whatever. I just need a homeschool company with less drama.

What does that mean "moving away from cores?"

[quietchapel]

I really don't know. My understanding was that they want to call the 'cores' something other than a core. In the post a statement was made about how people don't want to take the time to read from a web page what a 'core' means, they just want grade level. Which is a load of hooey. Homeschoolers love to read over web pages about what they might use! Maybe its 'cause of common core?

I am coming to terms with not using it- again, too much drama for this mama! And I'm sure Calming Tea is right: next year there will be something else.

[Kathryn]

I really don't know. My understanding was that they want to call the 'cores' something other than a core. In the post a statement was made about how people don't want to take the time to read from a web page what a 'core' means, they just want grade level. Which is a load of hooey. Homeschoolers love to read over web pages about what they might use! Maybe its 'cause of common core?
I am coming to terms with not using it- again, too much drama for this mama! And I'm sure Calming Tea is right: next year there will be something else.

I don't know who these people they're polling are, but I've never encountered them. They came up with the same line about removing the book descriptions from the catalogs. When we complained on the forums, we were told that "people" said they didn't like them and that all the forum users complaining were just an anomaly.

[Kathryn]

Here's the blog post quietchapel referred to: http://www.sonlight.com/blog/2014/04/sonlight-website-updates-april-1-2014.html

[...................]

I can't imagine or think if any homeschool mom EVER not wanting to read book descriptions. (Terrible sentence grammatically! Sorry!

Lol- the Kardashian homeschool company.

[staceyobu]

Yes, yes, yes. I found it a bit.....manipulative, I guess, when LA was tucked inside the cores. I also find it disturbing that Luke seems to show up in the comments on any blogs that discuss Sonlight. I was looking for more diverse perspectives on the program some time ago. For all the less- than- favorable reviews I found, Luke had posted somewhere in the comments. It was just odd. That has nothing to do with the new website, but still....

 

Sonlight is not the only homeschool company that does this.  I have found similar things with another company.  There doesn't seem to be a review without them anywhere on the internet.

[kolamum]

No idea if it's valid or not, but my husband & I wondered if they did away with the term Core based on Common Core Standards & not wanting any association with it. They mentioned on their blog that they did away with that term for having to explain to people what a core was, but that seemed like an invalid explanation because surely you'd just write:

 

Core F 

Reading, LA, Bible, History Grade 4-7

 

Vs 

 

Reading, La, Bible, History Grade 5. 

 

Who knows, I'm curious about the new catalog too as last year it still had many ages & grades for each core & I wondered if it was still like that now..

[Angie in VA]

I don't know who these people they're polling are, but I've never encountered them. They came up with the same line about removing the book descriptions from the catalogs. When we complained on the forums, we were told that "people" said they didn't like them and that all the forum users complaining were just an anomaly.

 

 

Well, when they had the book descriptions, I bought MORE books! From other cores and new titles for cores I already had.

When the SL catalog came in the mail, you know, at 2 in the afternoon, I used to tell the dc,"BEDTIME!" Lol. Their catalog is less intriguing and harder to read every year.

I was shocked to see Sarita will speak at a big VA hs convention (HEAV) this year.

Kardashian. LOL!

[Butter]

Maybe its 'cause of common core?

 

That actually makes a LOT of sense and I'd bet is exactly why.

 

The way it is set up now would make me terrified to even try it with more than one kid, especially if I was just starting out.  There is so much reading with Sonlight that you really have to combine kids as much as you possibly can.  Otherwise you'd go insane.  It seems pretty complicated to say "okay, I have a 12 and a 10 year old, so I'll go with 5th grade and beef it up for the 7th grader and this is how I'm going to have to change things..."  Sonlight has always been kind of complicated to figure out what to get in the beginning, but with straight grade levels listed it seems like it will be just too hard for some people to even attempt to understand what to get.

[Angie in VA]

Doing a search for Sonlight should bring up a couple of big thread that cover those issues and make for some interesting reading.

 

Found a big thread last night. Wow. Just wow. 

[quietchapel]

No idea if it's valid or not, but my husband & I wondered if they did away with the term Core based on Common Core Standards & not wanting any association with it. They mentioned on their blog that they did away with that term for having to explain to people what a core was, but that seemed like an invalid explanation because surely you'd just write:

 

Core F 

Reading, LA, Bible, History Grade 4-7

 

Vs 

 

Reading, La, Bible, History Grade 5. 

 

Who knows, I'm curious about the new catalog too as last year it still had many ages & grades for each core & I wondered if it was still like that now..

 

I received the new catalog before the site change and had NO idea from reading the catalog that there would be a change on the site. You are right, I think. It would be quite simple to just describe it as you did. Not to mention that it is simply common homeschool- world knowledge that SL has cores. It has taken me all of a minute or two to explain the concept to new people.

 

I am going to look for whatever thread others have mentioned. My, I have been naïve!

[quietchapel]

That actually makes a LOT of sense and I'd bet is exactly why.

 

The way it is set up now would make me terrified to even try it with more than one kid, especially if I was just starting out.  There is so much reading with Sonlight that you really have to combine kids as much as you possibly can.  Otherwise you'd go insane.  It seems pretty complicated to say "okay, I have a 12 and a 10 year old, so I'll go with 5th grade and beef it up for the 7th grader and this is how I'm going to have to change things..."  Sonlight has always been kind of complicated to figure out what to get in the beginning, but with straight grade levels listed it seems like it will be just too hard for some people to even attempt to understand what to get.

Yes, and if a new family did get grade levels for each student? Wow...can you just imagine how awful that would be? I could do 3 cores now, but when I first started there would have been no way. Unless, of course, they next plan to significantly alter the content of each level. That would not surprise me at all at this point.