New unpopular opinion...

[linders]

Yes, we already have a thread, but I'm too steamed to find it.

 

We are involved in scouts, very involved. DH and I do a lot of volunteering, and one of us goes on almost every campout. Tonight I asked a parent whose 3 sons have been in for several years if they could help drive on an event this weekend. They have never once helped with anything, to my knowledge.

 

"Gosh, no, with so many kids in so many activities,we are really busy just getting them to things, we don't have time to volunteer." They have 8 DC, all of whom are involved in activities that rely on volunteers.

 

And I decided to limit my family to two DC just so I could take care of yours....

 

End of rant, and no offense to the families with several DC who do put in the time.

 

 

 

ETA: For those suggesting it, scouts has a policy prohibiting setting volunteer requirements - the idea is to make it open to all boys, even those whose parents cannot/will not support them. (We are also in a swim league that allows such policies, so I see the flip side - talented, enthusiastic kids who have to drop out because the parents won't participate.) And I have absolutely no problem with large families, but expecting others to be babysitters because of that choice is unfair. I am happy to be very involved, I enjoy the boys, just not so much some of the parents. I hear the same thing from friends who are volunteer coaches in recreational sports. Told you this would be an unpopular opinion! But hey, I do like a man in a kilt, so I'm mainstream there.

[JadeOrchidSong]

So sorry about that family's unwillingness to help.

My dh does a lot for our scout group.

Hope there is some policy in place for certain minimum amount of volunteer time.

[I talk to the trees]

You are not alone. The moms in my daughter's former 4-H group were the very same way. They treated it like free babysitting. :001_rolleyes:

[Azalea]

That is really unfair. I am sorry you have been treated shabbily. 

[Barb_]

 

And I decided to limit my family to two DC just so I could take care of yours....

 

End of rant, and no offense to the families with several DC who do put in the time.

Ouch. That was unnecessary. I'm pretty sure you weren't thinking of others' big families when considering your own family planning. If you are feeling overextended, maybe you need to speak up and say so.

[SKL]

Personally I think the best time to volunteer is before and/or after you have young kids.

 

I've logged thousands of volunteer hours in the past.  Right now I don't have time for it.  I choose not to allow other people's opinions on the matter bother me.  They haven't walked in my shoes - present, past, or future.

 

I've also learned that when I get that frustrated, it's probably time for *me* to say no.  Sometimes the fact that you're the only person doing xyz is because other people are quicker to recognize when "no" is the right answer.

 

And believe me, I've been where you are.

[Jean in Newcastle]

:confused: They probably are too busy taking their kids to activities.  If you don't want to take care of their kids, then don't.  It sounds like they are taking care of them just fine.  

[fraidycat]

:confused: They probably are too busy taking their kids to activities. If you don't want to take care of their kids, then don't. It sounds like they are taking care of them just fine....

You forgot ... With the help of volunteers like linders and her DH. ;)

 

I agree with SKL, though. I've volunteered in the past, I plan to volunteer in the future, but I don't do a whole heck of a lot right now, because I am busy, taking my kids to paid activities. I hate fundraising, so avoid it like the plague. Hence, no boy or girl scouts in my house. :)

 

ETA: I only have two kids.

[Mrs Mungo]

I think people who put their kids in volunteer-run activities *should* volunteer in some capacity, always. I know large families that manage it just fine. Granted, it may mean that *all* of the kids are in speech or scouts or swim team or whatever one or two things they pick for the family. If you don't want to volunteer, then you should put your kids in paid activities.

[Mrs Mungo]

A lot of the moms at my daughter's ballet studio volunteer. I never have, not in nine years. I decided early on that ballet was my respite, that I taught everything else and my sole responsibility was to pay the fees on time. I simply refuse to feel guilty for not helping out. I'm not one of the 'favoured' moms, but who cares ?

I think volunteering to help with activities you pay for is totally different and much more optional.

[Night Elf]

I think one should only volunteer what they want to do but expect consequences if others choose not to volunteer either. Maybe your troop is doing too much. Announce an event and that X number of adult volunteers are needed. Without that specific number, the event will not happen. Then just take your own kids on your own time.

[Laura Corin]

I do think there is an ages and stages aspect to this.  I ran Hobbes' cub scout dens for two years.  In total, my boys were in cubs/scouts for twelve years.  So I put an awful lot of work in for 1/6th of that period.  If a den has six scouts in it, I put in my time (as well as helping out in more minor ways at other times).  This may not be clear to the current helpers.

 

I absolutely agree, however, that one should be prepared to volunteer proportionately to one's children's attendance at volunteer-run activities.

 

L

[Tess in the Burbs]

It's tricky, volunteering. I have been involved in things over the years and people get upset when you decline to help. But often I was so heavily involved helping another activity I couldn't take on more! I wish it could be evenly spread among my kids activities but usually I'm busy with one sport and can't fully help in another.

And I only have 2 kids, but know large families that are involved....it's how they choose to balance things. But perhaps putting out a list and asking all parents to pick one thing to help with that year would get them involved.

I have a weekend coming up I knew I couldn't be in 2 places at once. I explained to one if they had a set time I could commit, but they aren't organized, so I had to say no and will only contribute food. If they got it together and signed parents up for a time slot I could balance both. So give that family options....perhaps then they would do something.

[Amy in NH]

It's tricky, volunteering. I have been involved in things over the years and people get upset when you decline to help. But often I was so heavily involved helping another activity I couldn't take on more! I wish it could be evenly spread among my kids activities but usually I'm busy with one sport and can't fully help in another.

And I only have 2 kids, but know large families that are involved....it's how they choose to balance things. But perhaps putting out a list and asking all parents to pick one thing to help with that year would get them involved.

I have a weekend coming up I knew I couldn't be in 2 places at once. I explained to one if they had a set time I could commit, but they aren't organized, so I had to say no and will only contribute food. If they got it together and signed parents up for a time slot I could balance both. So give that family options....perhaps then they would do something.

 

But the OP isn't asking these parents to "fully help".  It sounds like this family has never helped with ANYTHING and doesn't plan to.

[Tiramisu]

I really like the idea of a clear volunteer requirement. Personally, I need the way I can help spelled out for me. Otherwise, I am clueless and feel I get in the way when I try to help. When the OP specifically asked for help driving, that's the right approach IMO. I would jump in in a minute with a specific request like that. Even if I were busy with other kids, I would always do what I can to make it happen that I could help if asked for something clear. 

 

I don't have a huge family but my ability to volunteer at different times had more to do with having to bring along children who would have been disruptive to the activity. I think the same of other families, that they have their family obligations and it just might not be the right time for them. But I like to believe they will help when their time comes. And each of our gifts are different.

 

Not talking about the OP, but...

 

I will say that the people who complain about others not helping are sometimes the ones who over-extend themselves and would still be over-extended even if others helped more. Not all people are like this, but I have seen this quite a bit. Someone who volunteers to run nearly every activity at church, for example, may just need to slow down themselves.

 

Also, I've seen the super-volunteers neglect the needs of their own families for the sake of their volunteer activities. I've seen a couple of very serious cases of this, with one family not doing school work for a year because of the mom's volunteering. I'm not kidding. When things like this happen, the academic aspect is only one part. There are obvious emotional effects, too. Having seen this, I always think it's better to let other people handle the volunteer positions for the time being and take care of your family first. 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

 

We give the advice to say no all the time.

 

It could be that the parent is following the advice to say "no" because they feel over extended already.

[Tess in the Burbs]

But the OP isn't asking these parents to "fully help".  It sounds like this family has never helped with ANYTHING and doesn't plan to.

 

 

The group needs a big meeting with all parents explaining it takes everyone to make it work.  Then offer small jobs.  Drive to/from one campout but you don't need to stay the weekend.  Bring supplies for a den every week for 3 months.  Help with a fundraiser event.  Plan the end of year banquet.  Loads of options.  Given a list, force them to commit to something.  Something small but can be done.  

 

We have found that some groups aren't very welcoming of new help. They want help, but when new people are trying to get the details of what is needed or involved it's made out so complicated who would want to join into that mess?  

 

We had a scout year that no one was helping.  And it was made clear the banquet wouldn't happen if someone else didn't step up to help.  Someone did.  They wanted that for their kid enough to get involved.  

 

I really think laying it all out early in the year with what has to happen from the parents or it won't happen for the kids is important.  After giving a list of choices and they refuse to sign up a leader needs to be clear....all parents need to help out.  If you can't do one of the following, what can you do to make this work for your kids to be here?  

 

Like I said....I do one sport heavily(it's required), but the sport lacking in this upfront attitude about help.....I gave up trying to get details and offered $ for food.  What is needed needs to be put in writing for people to see and consider how they can do it.  Everyone has skills....perhaps the parent could do a phone tree for events if they can't be present at every event.  I think there is an answer but the group has to address the needs and give people a chance to sign up.  

[KungFuPanda]

I imagine that with 8 children in activities they would literally have no time to volunteer. I'm guessing they carefully chose activities with no volunteer obligations for that reason. I'm guessing they're planned down to the minute and adding something that someone else thinks they should do, but is optional from their viewpoint, just isn't going to happen.

 

I understand a moment of frustration. I was a GS leader for 7 years. When you start to get stressed out, stretched, and resentful, it's time to take a break. The world will keep spinning if you pause for a minute. No single event or activity is worth you getting sick with stress. It really OK if one fewer activity takes place. Breathe.

[Tess in the Burbs]

I really like the idea of a clear volunteer requirement. 

 Exactly.  I have a list of things I have to do for gymnastics.  I have a committee role. I have a hosted meet role(work 2 shifts each meet).  I have a Bingo role(work every other week).  I must attend meetings.  I must get my kid to practice and meets.  And I must pay all fees on time.  You know before going in what is expected of you, the parent.  And you sign an agreement.  Or you will be asked to leave!!!   People still complain and try to get out of their commitment.  People just do not want to be involved.  

 

And this swim meet thing that is conflicting with a gym meet.....I told the gal asking for volunteers with no list of what is needed was not helpful to me.  She still couldn't tell me what she needed other than parents ALL DAY.  7am-10pm.  I advised her to get a time schedule out so people could sign up.  Nope.  Then an email went out complaining no one responded to her.  No wonder!!!  What are you expecting?  No one can work those hours.  And what are we doing exactly?  A clear requirement is needed.  I finally told her I had a conflict and offered money to offset the food needs.  She was fine with that.  But I could have worked some of those hours had she known what was needed and had it better organized.  And people just don't know how to respond to the request.....no defined requirements is going to hurt the event. 

[milovany]

I really like the idea of a clear volunteer requirement ...

 

We give the advice to say no all the time.

 

It could be that the parent is following the advice to say "no" because they feel over extended already.

 

Agreeing with these.  We have several kids and we often look at what's required of the parents when choosing activities.  In our case that doesn't mean we don't volunteer at all, but in some specific activities this is the case. It could be that the parents in question just really do not have time to give yet they don't want to keep their kids from some enriching experiences. I can see that. If they had known ahead of time, clearly, what the volunteer requirement for the group would be, they may have chosen to not be involved. We have three kids involved in a orchestral strings program and they are often asking for parent volunteers, but it is not required. For that one activity, I cannot volunteer but I still want my kids to be able to have the experience of learning to play their instruments in this setting (granted, this is a paid activity, which may be different). I do often see the "just say no" advice given here and these parents may be exercising that right in the freedom to do so (i.e., with a lack of volunteer requirement). 

[kristi26]

My experience with large families is that the majority WANT to do their share.  The majority don't use their kids as a cop-out to avoid helping.  I'm sorry you're dealing with that.  It stinks.

[SKL]

I have a question.  Is it beneficial to the kids of "good volunteer" parents to have the kids of "bad volunteer" parents in the group?  If the answer is yes, then be happy that the parents can manage to bring their kids to the activities at all.  And be honest and acknowledge that it isn't easy to do that with 8 kids, or even with 2 kids if you have a lot of other things going on.  Plenty of parents just skip the activities all together.  Would that be preferred?  That would seem to narrow the diversity of the group, which in my opinion is not optimal, but maybe that's not a priority for some groups.

 

Just keep in mind that if you limit activities to families who have the time and motivation to volunteer, you limit your kids in some respects.

[SKL]

And also, just because you are heavily involved in scouts does not mean that makes you better than someone who isn't.  Maybe scouts is your thing at present.  Everyone has their thing that they are happy to do.  The trick with encouraging volunteerism/charity is to meet people where they are.  To do this, you have to be willing to see things from their perspective, not through a fog of pre-judgment which I sense here.

 

If you really did limit your family size so you could dedicate more time to volunteering for your kids' activities, that's great for you.  It sounds like things worked out just as you planned.  Be happy.

[Paige]

Some people do not have the gift of being good with other people's kids. I would prefer these people just tell me no, that they cannot volunteer to help out with the kids' activities, than to show up and make it abundantly clear why they do not usually volunteer. It's not really socially acceptable to tell people, "Sorry, little kids annoy me and I start acting like a jerk," but I think we've all seen people like this. I KNOW there are certain friends of mine, who are normally lovely people, that I would not want my children to be supervised by. Maybe these people would be great in other capacities- volunteering with senior citizens, animals, or anything else. We all have gifts and sometimes working with other people's children is not one of them.

[Guest submarines]

OP, this is what happens when you are too steamed to look for the original Unpopular Opinion thread. :p

[Kim in Appalachia]

Sometimes it is just the season of life you are in.  My kids have done swimming for years.  When they first started my youngest was an infant.  I could not volunteer in anyway.  I couldn't time or even line kids up.  But now my youngest is 9.  3 years ago I started stroke judging.  Once I knew he would be ok on his own at the meets, I felt free to help out.  And I do help out.  A lot.  Last year my boys did baseball for the first time.  It ran the same time as swimming.  I didn 't not help out with baseball, because I was worn out from the swim meets (usually 3 days, 2 sessions a day, and I did it all. :) )  So people at baseball may have thought I didn't want to help out, but didn't know how much I did at other events.  You just never know.

 

 If the family in question has 8 kids they really may not have the time right now to help, but that doesn't mean they never will or haven't in the past.  Then again, some people never feel the need to contribute.  I know lots of people like that.  But it's not good for me to get upset about it.  Really, when someone doesn't step in to help, they miss out. 

[LMV]

I'm not sure if you want this to be JAWM, so, if you do, then I truly hope that things improve in your situation and you manage to lessen your own load.  (I also hope this for you even if you are amenable to some suggestions.)

 

Yes, we already have a thread, but I'm too steamed to find it.

 

We are involved in scouts, very involved. DH and I do a lot of volunteering, and one of us goes on almost every campout. Tonight I asked a parent whose 3 sons have been in for several years if they could help drive on an event this weekend. They have never once helped with anything, to my knowledge.

 

"Gosh, no, with so many kids in so many activities,we are really busy just getting them to things, we don't have time to volunteer." They have 8 DC, all of whom are involved in activities that rely on volunteers.

 

And I decided to limit my family to two DC just so I could take care of yours....

 

End of rant, and no offense to the families with several DC who do put in the time.

 

 

 

ETA: For those suggesting it, scouts has a policy prohibiting setting volunteer requirements - the idea is to make it open to all boys, even those whose parents cannot/will not support them. (We are also in a swim league that allows such policies, so I see the flip side - talented, enthusiastic kids who have to drop out because the parents won't participate.) And I have absolutely no problem with large families, but expecting others to be babysitters because of that choice is unfair. I am happy to be very involved, I enjoy the boys, just not so much some of the parents. I hear the same thing from friends who are volunteer coaches in recreational sports. Told you this would be an unpopular opinion! But hey, I do like a man in a kilt, so I'm mainstream there.

 

I wonder if this has less to do with the mom having many kids and more to do with being asked three days ahead of time.  We have nine kids, although we have only five at home now, and we've managed to support them and their activities (DH is a scout leader, we're both 4-H leaders, and I'm involved in the parents' organization for our daughters' gymnastics programs), we both work outside the home, and we're involved in some other volunteer commitments through our church ministry and habitat for humanity.  We manage to keep this all together and usually even allow for adequate "down time" at home but we do need to be a bit on top of our schedule and make arrangements in advance.

 

If someone asked DH to drive for three cub scouts events in the upcoming year he would pick three that worked for him and our family and be happy to help. He would ensure it wasn't a weekend I was working in the ED (I'm a physician) so that I would be available to transport our other kids to their activities and be home with them.  In contrast,  if someone asked him last night to be available to drive on Saturday he would probably say well my wonderful wife is working physician ED shifts Friday and Saturday so I will have all of the kids and my fourteen year old daughter has gymnastics practice Saturday morning, and I had planned to take the girls out to the farm to ride if the weather is decent so that won't really work.  Best case scenario even if we could arrange for someone (maybe even my MIL) to get DD14 to and from Saturday gymnastics practice, and decided to kibosh riding he could only take one or two kids (because he will have our four kids in car seats already in the vehicle).  If he really just needs to be a chauffeur  then that might work.  However, if he needs to hang out at whatever he is driving to (or more likely provide some assistance and supervision once there) with four little girls 1,4,5, and 9 then it becomes an issue of is that really being considerate to them, their feelings, and their interests and is that safe?

 

So I don't think it is so much that large families don't want to help but that large families may need a bit more lead time to make arrangements so they can help.  The mom with the eight kids is going to need to make arrangements for her five non-scouts in order to play chauffeur and three days of notice may just not be sufficient for her to do this.  Perhaps she would be able to drive if all the dates were arranged at the beginning of the year and she could plan around one date in April or October or whatever month is good for her.  Perhaps driving is not a way she wants to help but she would love to provide a snack for after meetings, or type up the program for your next badge/bridging ceremony.  In the groups DH and I work with we come up with a tentative plan for the year before the first organizational meeting.  The plan is finalized, voted on, etc at that meeting and then we work to fill the volunteer schedule.  We usually have the schedule filled within a month of having our annual calendar.  Admittedly, when you plan in advance, you do have to plan for a few unexpected crises but we've had good luck with people stepping in when these occur. 

[Guest submarines]

Sometimes it is just the season of life you are in.  My kids have done swimming for years.  When they first started my youngest was an infant.  I could not volunteer in anyway.  I couldn't time or even line kids up.  But now my youngest is 9.  3 years ago I started stroke judging.  Once I knew he would be ok on his own at the meets, I felt free to help out.  And I do help out.  A lot.  Last year my boys did baseball for the first time.  It ran the same time as swimming.  I didn 't not help out with baseball, because I was worn out from the swim meets (usually 3 days, 2 sessions a day, and I did it all. :) )  So people at baseball may have thought I didn't want to help out, but didn't know how much I did at other events.  You just never know.

 

 If the family in question has 8 kids they really may not have the time right now to help, but that doesn't mean they never will or haven't in the past.  Then again, some people never feel the need to contribute.  I know lots of people like that.  But it's not good for me to get upset about it.  Really, when someone doesn't step in to help, they miss out. 

 

And even those who do not contribute visibly, might be contributing in other ways, eg. as anonymous financial donors. One can just never know.

[SKL]

True about the donations.  There is a camp I send my kids to.  I give a donation plus pay for two other kids to attend on full scholarship.  I do not volunteer.  Maybe some other parents take offense at the fact that I have other things to do during camp hours.  (In my case, that would be working full-time, but it could just as easily be caring for babies or elderly parents, attending to my own health issues, or volunteering for some other organization.)

 

I decline to demand:  what were all you "good volunteer" parents doing before kids, when I was working 80 hour weeks (paying lots of taxes) AND volunteering hundreds of hours each year AND donating to charity?  If you chose to wait until you had kids in volunteery activities to volunteer much, then that is great.  It's one very valid and helpful choice.  But it's not the only valid and helpful choice.

[Guest submarines]

True about the donations.  There is a camp I send my kids to.  I give a donation plus pay for two other kids to attend on full scholarship.  I do not volunteer.  Maybe some other parents take offense at the fact that I have other things to do during camp hours.  (In my case, that would be working full-time, but it could just as easily be caring for babies or elderly parents, attending to my own health issues, or volunteering for some other organization.)

 

I decline to demand:  what were all you "good volunteer" parents doing before kids, when I was working 80 hour weeks (paying lots of taxes) AND volunteering hundreds of hours each year AND donating to charity?  If you chose to wait until you had kids in volunteery activities to volunteer much, then that is great.  It's one very valid and helpful choice.  But it's not the only valid and helpful choice.

 

:iagree: I volunteered  for many years before having kids--with the mentally ill, with the developmentally challenged, with university students with learning disabilities. These are my strengths and I feel my contributions were meaningful. Volunteering with children is not my strength and is not my priority right now. My children are not involved in any activities where volunteering is mandatory.

 

I'm looking forward to the stage of my life when I will be able to volunteer again in the capacities that I feel comfortable in.

[Cera]

You may not be allowed to set a volunteer requirement but you can certainly give first priority for carpools and such to boys whose parents volunteer.  Let everyone know that the new policy is that everyone who drives transports their own child.  Additional seats in vehicles will be allocated first to those whose parents have driven to previous events and then any leftover seats to those who have not participated in the sharing of transportation responsibilities recently.  The event is a scout thing, providing transportation to and from is not a scouting responsibility.  That is a parent responsibility.

[Carrie12345]

I'm in an almost-no-volunteering stage right now.  We're looking at a co-op with required hours, but they say they're happy to find jobs that make things easier for those with littles.  My big thing is that I am NOT going to pay someone to watch some of my kids while I volunteer my time (unless maybe there's some once in a lifetime opportunity/experience.)  Before kids, I was a scout leader, Sunday school teacher, and a whole bunch of other things.  My kids will get older and I will have time again. That's not today.

[Seasider]

What was I doing prekids? Volunteering. I started volunteering with various organizations in my youth and have almost always had a volunteer outlet through which to serve. Even made a career of working with and for volunteers.

 

I believe the spirit of volunteerism has, generally speaking, declined greatly in this country. The reasons for that would make an interesting study.

 

As far as the parents of eight "carefully choosing" their children's activities in order to avoid those with a volunteer commitment... I know more large families whose parents have carefully chosen activities for their kids - more things done together for less scattering - so they *can* be involved.

 

I believe Tiramisu is on to something. The volunteer expectations should be clearly laid out at the time of registering a child to participate in a group. I can see someone saying no to a late-coming transportation request, other plans may already be in place. But organizers should be able to say, "with this level of parental support, this is our tentative schedule of activities." Present more opportunities as available when some parent steps up to commit. A basic program is nothing to be ashamed of, if you are sponsoring/supporting/serving a significant number of underprivileged kids.

 

At the risk of being accused of being elitist, I'll add... If no one wants to work/volunteer time necessary to elevate a basic program to an excellent one, I'd skip the organizational drama and just casually organize some family and friends camp outs that are not affiliated with official troop activities.

[SKL]

I was very, very dedicated to volunteering.  It was really painful for me to accept that I had to drop out of one volunteer post after another.  That could be why this is a touchy topic for me.  I was working until past midnight and *then* my volunteer responsibilities would kick in.  My nonprofit-related emails generally went out around 2am.  To accommodate work schedules, meetings were always held during what was supposed to be "family time."  I'd be at the park watching out for my kids on the equipment, while on a conference call waiting to give the financial report for xyz nonprofit.  I was marginalized because I couldn't be there in person for a 7:30am meeting.  I had to attend a weekend "annual conference" when both my kids and I had the flu.  That was a dark period of my life, honestly, and it was compromising my health, my parenting, and my work.  For the more hands-on stuff, I actively looked for meaningful opportunities that I could bring my young kids to, but these are practically non-existent.

 

Now a Brownie troop meets at my kids' school, but I have no appetite for that kind of activity.  It just isn't my thing.  So my kids are not in Brownies and I probably won't ever put them in, because I don't need the attitude from parents who think I suck because I don't feel like doing after-school crafts etc.  These are the same parents who notice I am not in the PTA and I don't do fundraisers or bake sales etc. etc.  All of that is for the benefit of kids who already have everything.  I will keep looking for opportunities to help people who actually need help.

 

ETA: I do still have a major charity commitment which I involve my kids in as I can.  But it's nothing compared to what I used to do.  And it's invisible to people around town.

[meena]

Parents taking advantage of other parents happens with all family sizes. I knew a family with only 2 kids who were constantly relying on other parents to watch their kids, transport them places, provide activity support, etc. I helped this family many times as I was trying to be a good friend but definitely felt used after they always found excuses not to reciprocate. We broke off this "friendship" and unsurprisingly they quickly found other friends who would help them out (or "be their minions" as my husband likes to say).

 

In the case of Scouts or another activity where you can't break ties with this type of people, just focus on the kids. I was a kid whose parent never volunteered, and I am so incredibly thankful and appreciative for the adults who went out of their way to make a positive difference in my life despite my mom having messed up priorities. When you want to give these parents a knock upside the noggin, remember you are doing the right thing by being involved in these children's lives.

[FaithManor]

For our 4-h club, we require a parent to attend or to send another adult (relative or family friend) with any child under the age of 12. This is because we can't be a drop and run club due to the nature of what we do...science projects that include lots of chemicals, tools, power tools, exacto knives, super jet glue, etc. and we have to properly clean our facility every single time or we'll lose the ability to meet there. Given that we are volunteers who put in more than 200 hours per year on behalf of our club, and the parents only pay $10.00 per year per child - grants, and our personal check book fund the projects so the parents do not pay - and a maximum $30.00 per family so all children over 3 are free, we feel that requiring parents to help is only right. We can't have a bunch of nine year olds not receiving assistance when working with hydrochloric acid, or using a hack saw. We do realize that this means some parents will be angry because we do not allow "drop and run", and they are too busy to feel they should have to help. But, we can't do it alone, and we aren't being paid either...we spend about a thousand dollars a year for these science projects with the rest supplied by MSU and local businesses...so it's not unreasonable of us to refuse to babysit. We also have a code of conduct that we rigorously enforce so that when kids age out of needing a parent in attendance, we don't have behavior problems. We have expelled students with behavior problems in the past. Another thing that isn't popular with parents, but if I have to replace the ruined counter top of our work room because a kid refused to follow the procedures, I'm out a lot of money that I know the parent won't be willing to pay. That said, I do understand what it is like to have littles in the house, demanding jobs, health issues, etc. I consider it seasons in life...some families will have a lot of activities, some will not. Some will do informal things like nature hikes and museum trips as families and not do 4-H, scouts, sports, etc., and others will do a lot of programmed activities. It's all good. No one can do everything, and there certainly isn't one just right way to find meaningful experiences for children.

 

It is wrong though to expect overworked volunteers to continue to put forth huge effort if the parents aren't willing to contribute. That system only burns out the volunteer leaders until there is no one left willing to sit in the hot seat and then the meaningful activity or club is available to no one.

 

It's all about balance. I don't take it personally when families have to decline participation because they are unable to stay during club meetings with their younger children. It's just how it is. Nothing to get upset over. I just simply can't bend that rule, and then end up with a safety problem or unable to teach because there isn't enough help with supervision.

[bettyandbob]

I can understand the op being upset.

 

The op states this is a family that never volunteers and has 3 sons involved. I understand there are seasons to everything. There were years I was heavily involved in swim team and years I taught Sunday School. During those same years my kids were in other things. I put in some time in every activity that is volunteer based. It might be a minor amount. Some years a minor amount is all I can handle. But I do something.

 

I understand being busy. I understand doing only a small amount. I do not understand doing nothing at all. If you can't do the typical things organizers list, then you should go to organizers and state you'd like to help but you are only available on Thursdays or the baby makes you housebound. There may be a job you can do from home by making phone calls. You may be able to do laundry for the group. There may be items you can pick up on your regular grocery run. It will be a message to the organizers that you are not trying to get out of something and that they need to come up with small jobs that can be passed around. But doing nothing at all simply because you are busy with your dc is unacceptable and you should not put your dc in volunteer run programs if you are so busy you cannot help in any way.

 

I do recognize there are times when people really can't help. I know our summer swim team would give the family with the father who has stage 4 colon cancer a pass, but he insists on doing a job and there is one job reserved for him to do sitting down out of the sun. Just being busy because you have a lot of kids doesn't get you a pass--there is SOMETHING you can do to contribute and you should do it.

[Haiku]

I tend not to volunteer at my kids' activities. One of the big reasons my kids are in outside activities (aside from the fact that they simply enjoy them) is so that they can spend time with adults who are not me. I think this benefits them in many ways, and it gives me a break, as well.

 

When my oldest dd started Girl Scouts, the leader was falling all over herself because I was a homeschool mom, so I must be GREAT with kids and I must have TONS of creative ideas so I would be AWESOME helping her out. Um, no, I put my kid in Scouts so that she would have something to do that doesn't involve me. No, thank you.

 

I appreciate volunteers. I really, really do. But the people who volunteer with these kid events do it because they love it. I don't love it. I volunteer in other areas. 

[bettyandbob]

I tend not to volunteer at my kids' activities. One of the big reasons my kids are in outside activities (aside from the fact that they simply enjoy them) is so that they can spend time with adults who are not me. I think this benefits them in many ways, and it gives me a break, as well.

 

When my oldest dd started Girl Scouts, the leader was falling all over herself because I was a homeschool mom, so I must be GREAT with kids and I must have TONS of creative ideas so I would be AWESOME helping her out. Um, no, I put my kid in Scouts so that she would have something to do that doesn't involve me. No, thank you.

 

I appreciate volunteers. I really, really do. But the people who volunteer with these kid events do it because they love it. I don't love it. I volunteer in other areas. 

 

Are you saying the only volunteer opportunities in scouts are heavily kid involved? There are many, many things that keep programs for kids (scouts, sports, ect) going that do not require leading/supervising bunches of children.

[school17777]

My dh and I do volunteer on a regular basis for things that our dc are involved in. Our ds was sort of recruited to join a Boy Scout troop in another town. Dh agreed to send him there because he liked the fathers in that troop. I knew before he joined that I would not be able to help for various reasons and dh would have little time/desire either. The scoutmaster assured me this would not be a problem at all. If we had known the actual expectations, we probably would not have sent ds there. I felt like there was a bait & switch with parental expectations.

 

Anyway, I can see both sides.

 

I am at the point where I think if there isn't willing volunteers, then it is time to let the activity drop. No drivers for the trip, then no trip.

[Retired]

well I can see your stressed or feeling unappreciated - I only had 1 son in scouts and never  volunteered.   The scout master understood.  My dh travels and gone from home.  I homeschooled 2 boys.  My son didn't want mama around.  He wanted his independence and being around the guys.   We did give give extra money for events and I paid for another low income kids functions.

 

So just saying you don't know all the reasons people make decisions.  But this thread is about venting so get it out. :gnorsi:

[SKL]

One thing I don't understand is why are school-aged kid social activities so adult-intensive?  Don't kids spend enough time each day being coached, watched, and helped by adults?  I would think most of the social stuff could have a high kid-adult ratio.  If not, I would be questioning the design or age-appropriateness of the activities.

[Joanne]

????

I thought that UO threads were immune to "helpful" feedback or contrary commentary? Isn't that the POINT of them?

[FaithManor]

Oops, sorry Joanne...I blitzed on the purpose of the thread!

[Joanne]

One thing I don't understand is why are school-aged kid social activities so adult-intensive? Don't kids spend enough time each day being coached, watched, and helped by adults? I would think most of the social stuff could have a high kid-adult ratio. If not, I would be questioning the design or age-appropriateness of the activities.

 

Yea, totally. They should drive themselves to the event and camp minimally supervised. The OP was asking for help driving the kids

[SKL]

Yea, totally. They should drive themselves to the event and camp minimally supervised. The OP was asking for help driving the kids

 

The OP was cribbing because the family hasn't volunteered in the past "as far as she knows."  The OP is ticked because the family does not volunteer with the scouts on a regular basis, like she and her husband do.

 

The driving was not something to be upset about in itself.  People with 8 active kids can't be expected to have all their Saturdays open just in case someone comes up and asks them to drive somewhere without advance notice.

 

And I'm talking in general.  Why should a small group of school-aged kids need a handful of parents to "help out" with their meetings, which mostly appear to involve hanging out in a designated place, talking, and doing something with their hands?

[saraha]

I removed my comments because Joanne is right, this was supposed to be a safe place to vent.

[Joanne]

Sigh. I guess UO no longer suggests what it did in The epic length one.

[bolt.]

I'm someone who doesn't really understand why there aren't clear lines. I always assumed that people who lead scouts, teach Sunday school, coach soccer (or whatever) are doing it because they love to, and enjoy the privilege of leading and influencing the kids. I don't feel a spontaneous urge to "pull my weight"... It's not for me, and it's not about me.

 

When people say, "We can't continue to offer this program without your help." -- I feel all like, "Then what on earth were you thinking when you offered the program in the first place? Did you think there was a fairy godmother involved? You told my child you had a program for her... Why don't you have it? Why is it my job to partner with you to offer what you put on the table? If I wanted to do it myself, I'd have just done it."

 

(If something is a "volunteer run organization" I assume that means they have volunteers that are running it, who will mostly continue to do so. I don't feel like it a fair term for an organization that has a theory by which it might run, but has plenty if critical jobs empty.)

 

Maybe it's the "bait and switch" that I don't like... Especially when i feel like the child has been baited, and the adult gets switched.

 

I do better with "The program will cost you x dollars, and y hours. You can expect to spend your hours doing things like a, b, c." Then I can count the cost and do the logic -- without any "other people do so much more than you" guilt served up as pseudo-motivational icing on the cake.

[SKL]

Joanne, first, I think you have to say JAWM if you want JAWM.  Second, the last time someone started an Unpopular Opinion thread, at least one poster got majorly jumped on and viciously (IMO) trounced.