Explain to me the theory of WWE copywork in the early years...

[TheAttachedMama]

This is sort of a spin off from my other writing threads I have started recently. 

(Before I asked if a separate handwriting program was needed on top of WWE copywork.  I also asked if their copywork should be at or above their current reading/spelling level.   I also asked if Brave Writers "Jot it Down" could be used in conjunction with WWE 1...and if so, how?) 

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I have been thinking about things.....AND I think knowing the answer to this single question will better help me plan a language arts program for my 1st and 2nd graders. 

 

My questions is.....

What is my MAIN goal of the copywork as assigned in WWE 1?

 

Is it to work on building hand endurance so children can better accomplish the physical act of writing?

Is it to work on practicing letter formation and penmanship skills?  So that forming letters becomes quicker and more automatic---therefore requiring less mental effort?  (If so, then doesn't another handwriting program become a bit of an overkill?) 

Is it to work on learning basic sentence structure?  (Capitalization, punctuation, etc.)

Is it to capture in their minds what good writing looks and sounds like?  (If so, then it should be on their current reading level...right?)

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I am asking this because I sometimes feel like our WWE workbook is a bit of busywork for the kids.  Our time is precious, and I don't want to waste it on busywork.  I want to know what specific skills I am working on when I assign the alternating copywork and narration in WWE 1.

 

I already have the kids narrate their history readings daily.  (I have them use complete sentences when I have them narrate, etc.)  So do I need to have them do the additional narration in the WWE book?  Can the WWE narration work be eliminated?  And if not, then what is my specific goal with doing the additional WWE narrations?  Just more practice?  I am trying to use our time as efficiently as possible.  Perhaps I just have them periodically narrate their 'for fun' read aloud too?

 

I already have the kids do copywork in their penmanship books.  (They copy bible quotes and occasional quotes from their readers.)  So do I need them to copy over additional sentences in their WWE book?  Or is this more busywork?  And if so, what am I working on when I assign the WWE copywork that is different from their penmanship copywork?  Which specific skills am I trying to address and improve upon?  (NOTE:  I also do the sporadic copywork assigned in FLL 1.  And we dictate phrases in AAS 1.)   Can any of this work be eliminated to make our school days shorter and more efficient? 

 

 

[My3girls]

Is it to work on learning basic sentence structure? (Capitalization, punctuation, etc.)

Is it to capture in their minds what good writing looks and sounds like? (If so, then it should be on their current reading level...right?)

 

 

I believe it's these ^. You can add the other two if you want to really, but that's not really how we choose to use it. We found the copy work just wasn't enough.

[TheAttachedMama]

Thanks for your reply! 

 

SO---how is WWE copywork different from having them work through a handwriting book which is mostly copywork?  (So long as I highlight capitalization of proper nouns, punctuation, etc.?)

 

I posted before about this question, and the overwhelming majority said that you needed separate handwriting practice and WWE copywork.   So I am wondering why so much copying of text in the early grades.  It seems like I get the same product whether I have my kids copy a bible verse for handwriting practice and then a sentence for WWE.    Do they really need to copy sentences in multiple subjects every day? 

 

On a side note:  My kids don't have very good handwriting.  I am at a loss on how to improve it.   Despite practice it doesn't seem to be getting much better.   They also complain about writing a lot because they get tired.  So all of this sentence copying seems to be difficult for them. 

Is it to work on learning basic sentence structure? (Capitalization, punctuation, etc.)
Is it to capture in their minds what good writing looks and sounds like? (If so, then it should be on their current reading level...right?)


I believe it's these ^. You can add the other two if you want to really, but that's not really how we choose to use it. We found the copy work just wasn't enough.

 

Also What do you mean the copywork wasn't enough?  could you elaborate? 
 

[sunnyday]

I think all the answers to these questions are in SWB's audio lecture about teaching writing in the elementary years. She describes the functions of copywork (and then dictation) pretty clearly. Looking at the sample from the instructor's text for WWE, I see it's pretty clearly laid out in there too, if you prefer text (and free!) ...The audio is a bit more thorough though.

[Rosie_0801]

Seen this thread? http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/255839-why-you-should-work-on-twtm-skills-copywork-narration-dictation-outlining-etc/

[MeghanL]

 

My questions is.....

What is my MAIN goal of the copywork as assigned in WWE 1?

 

Is it to work on building hand endurance so children can better accomplish the physical act of writing?

Is it to work on practicing letter formation and penmanship skills?  So that forming letters becomes quicker and more automatic---therefore requiring less mental effort?  (If so, then doesn't another handwriting program become a bit of an overkill?) 

Is it to work on learning basic sentence structure?  (Capitalization, punctuation, etc.)

Is it to capture in their minds what good writing looks and sounds like?  (If so, then it should be on their current reading level...right?)

-----------

 

I already have the kids narrate their history readings daily.  (I have them use complete sentences when I have them narrate, etc.)  So do I need to have them do the additional narration in the WWE book?  Can the WWE narration work be eliminated?  And if not, then what is my specific goal with doing the additional WWE narrations?  Just more practice?  I am trying to use our time as efficiently as possible.  Perhaps I just have them periodically narrate their 'for fun' read aloud too?

 

I already have the kids do copywork in their penmanship books.  (They copy bible quotes and occasional quotes from their readers.)  So do I need them to copy over additional sentences in their WWE book?  Or is this more busywork?  And if so, what am I working on when I assign the WWE copywork that is different from their penmanship copywork?  Which specific skills am I trying to address and improve upon?  (NOTE:  I also do the sporadic copywork assigned in FLL 1.  And we dictate phrases in AAS 1.)   Can any of this work be eliminated to make our school days shorter and more efficient? 

 

I think all of the reasons you listed above are reasons for doing copywork. I don't think it necessarily *has* to be from WWE though. For many, they are using something like Handwriting without Tears, and while it gives practice for letter formation, copywork is beneficial as a separate task because it gives more in the direction of complete sentences whereas HWOT is really light on sentences in the early years.

 

So, while WWE is a great resource for both narration & copywork in increasingly difficult progression, since you are already doing narration and copywork within other curricula, I would say you do NOT need to do it as a separate study.

[Incognito]

I'm pretty sure I answered your other thread that we are doing separate copywork.

 

I think it is really different for each person why the WWE workbook would be useful or not.  Ideally, one would not use it - one would do all copywork and narration from books you are already using in other subjects.  At least that is what I recall from reading the WWE parent book (the title escapes me). 

 

In your situation, it may be just extra copywork you don't need.  In my situation, my kids don't write a lot, and I've found that expecting writing in different areas at different times in our studies has helped improve their writing.  WWE is a part of that.  I also find it interesting to see what letters they are forming by copying the style that is on the page compared to the type of printing we have been working on. 

 

You can cut out whatever you feel is not serving a good purpose - and if you find you are missing something when you cut it out, you can always add it back in too! 

 

I don't recall how old your kids are, but FWIW, with mine, I don't know if it is just ability or attitude, but I expected a lot less out of my oldest in K/1st when it came to writing and it is something that is still harder for her than I think it should be.  So, I expect more from my middle child, and even though it is harder for him than it was for her at his age, I expect it now anyways and he is improving much younger.  I am not sure if pushing my oldest at a younger age would have helped or not, but pushing more now is helping with both my kids, so I'm doing it.  And WWE is a part of that.

 

[TheAttachedMama]

Thanks everyone for the replies! 

 

Rosie, thanks for linking to that other thread.  I am new-ish here, and I haven't seen that before.  After reading that thread and Ingonito's reply, I am now thinking that because copywork is difficult for my children that they might need MORE of it....not less.  That sort of changed my perspective.  I struggle with knowing when to push and when to back down.   I am not feeling very confident in knowing how much copywork and narration practice to assign. 

 

And Meghan ---thank you also for also giving me permission to drop the WWE copywork.  (btw...hi there!)   

 

 

I don't recall how old your kids are....

Incognito, My children are 7 and 6.  They are both working around the same level when it comes to reading and writing.  (Actually, my younger child is a *bit* ahead of her older brother.)   We didn't start WWE 1 until half way through their first grade year because the amount of writing was frustratingly hard for my oldest child.  (It used to always cause tears.  So we put it away for several months and brought it back out.  He now is able to do it just fine.) 

 

Ideally, one would not use it - one would do all copywork and narration from books you are already using in other subjects.

 

At the beginning of the year I checked the WWE teacher's book out of our library.  My initial plan was to pull our own sentences and passages from our other 'read alouds' using the main WWE teacher's book as a guide.  BUT--I decided to simplify things and just use the workbook at the last minute. 

 

Perhaps I will try pulling passages and copywork sentences from another subject (besides history) and have them do the whole 'WWE' thing with those books.   I might feel like the activity is more worthwhile if it comes from a subject we are already doing. ]

[Tanikit]

Copywork I believe teaches them all of what you listed. It does NOT however teach any of them if you just hand it over and tell them to copy it. You have to be there and point out that sentences begin with capitals and end with punctuation marks. You have to make sure that you give them sentences that have days of the week and names in them and again you have to point it out.

 

Copywork also cannot teach neat handwriting - while it can be used to practice good handwriting, no amount of copying letters will EVER teach a child to write neatly - it cannot teach letter formation, it cannot insist that the letters sit in the correct place and are the correct height in relation to each other. Nothing but a parent sitting there insisting will teach neat handwriting (especially at that age) - if you are sure they do know how to do it correctly, but are just being lazy then you can rub out and tell them to do it better, but if you are not making sure that they are capable and know what they are doing then no amount of copywork will make this better.

 

You can do the WWE method without the workbooks. You can use the method in other subjects AND do the workbook or you can ONLY use the workbook and leave narrating in other subjects til later - or you could just do oral narrations in other subjects. You need to make it work for your child. I found with my child that through copywork I could teach her quotation marks, hyphens and apostrophe's earlier than is suggested in WWE if I used sentences I had chosen myself and that suited me and my child better. I also found that the length of the sentence could more easily be dictated when I was choosing as my DD needed shorter pieces than was suggested for quite some time.

[happypamama]

I haven't used WWE1, but with WWE2, I found the copywork and dictation helpful for a couple of reasons. One, my son was learning cursive with HWOT, and WWE provided practice for him after he finished the main book. We didn't do separate copywork aside from whatever was in the HWOT book and WWE, but this child has extremely neat and meticulous writing; he always has, so the copywork and dictation from WWE have been enough practice for him. I also used it for teaching grammar and punctuation ("okay, see how we put a capital letter here, and this is why") and seeing the grammar, punctuation, and spelling as he copies them carefully has helped it sink in.

[sunnyday]

Perhaps I will try pulling passages and copywork sentences from another subject (besides history) and have them do the whole 'WWE' thing with those books.   I might feel like the activity is more worthwhile if it comes from a subject we are already doing. ]

 

SWB would agree. :) Per the audio lecture she doesn't actually think there should be a "writing" subject, especially at the young ages when the total amount of written output is so limited by fine motor skills and stamina. She is all about writing across the curriculum. ;)

[Dolphin]

Have you looked at this book?  It is what they based the 4 levels on. You can get just this book and do 4 years of WWE yourself, using your own materials. The TM and WB style are for more open and go, here is all the leg work done. It also explains a lot more of the why. It lays out why you are doing it this way AND how to do it. Even if you use the leveled lesson plans, it it worth reading the book. I go back and re read this book even more than TWTM at the moment (youngest in 1st)