Lanny Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 DD wants to learn how to play the Violin. She is going to pay for this Violin. She will be beginning from scratch. If she takes to this, my wife and I will try to find someone near where we live, to give her lessons, and when she is ready, we will purchase a more expensive violin for her. Her idea is to teach herself at first. The reading DD has done indicated she should look for a Cremona Violin. When I searched on the local equivalanet of eBay, for "Cremona Violin" this Violin, listed as a Verona, came up. They have sold 14 of them and their feedback is quite good. Here's the link (in Spanish), but you can see the photo. http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.co/MCO-409718765-violines-verona-44-nuevos-entrega-inmediata-domicilio-_JM At today's exchange rate, the price is approximately USD$58.12 + shipping. Questions: Cremona is a brand I see on Amazon. Is Verona also a brand name? For this price (we are in Colombia, so not everything is available here) should we buy this for DD, to see if her interest in learning to play the Violin continues, or try to find a Violin made by Cremona for her? For the price, it looks like a very good way for her to get started and see if she likes it. TIA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I don't have a clue about violins, Lanny, but I'll give this thread a bump in the hope that someone else can help you. :) I know Wendy (SparklyUnicorn) takes violin lessons, so maybe she'll have some info for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WishboneDawn Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Honestly, any of the starter violins aren't going to be great quality but they'll all be good enough. I wouldn't worry too much about brand. The only thing I'd suggest is that if you can find someone selling a full size violin used, even if it is a cheap student violin, pick that up. Even a cheap violin sounds better with a little age rather then brand new. The other but if advice would be to take it to a luthier (if you have one near by) to adjust it for her. I wish we'd done that for my daughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara in AZ Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Most string stores offer some percentage of store credit toward the eventual purchase of a rental instrument. It would be better quality than something you got off the Internet for under $100. I don't know the age of your daughter, but definitely make sure you know the correct size before you buy. Playing on instruments that are too big is the pet peeve of our violin teacher. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tammi K Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Two of my kiddos play strings ( one violin, one viola) May I gently caution you that 'teaching herself' might, in the end, be a very bad idea. The first several lessons with a teacher will consist of exercises to teach correct position for both the bow and instrument as well as exercises for increasing arm and hand strength, both of which are vital for continued success. It becomes extremely difficult to unlearn bad habits. Perhaps you could start with a limited number of lessons and see if she wants to continue. But, I would really advise against teaching herself at the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Alyssa* Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Not familiar with that brand, but sounds like a VSO (Violin Shaped Object). We rented a violin from a luthier and they gave us a couple VSOs that were a real pain. :glare: Needless to say, I did a ton of research and settled on Kennedy Violins! HIGHLY RECOMMEND! They are luthier's who were tired of the VSOs their students were having to use, but wanted something affordable for parents to start their children on. They have their own line of violins that are highly rated and if I don't say so myself, they are incredible for the price! We just bought their Ricard Bunnel G1 and even the case is out-of-this-world quality for the price you pay.It really pays to start them off right, because if they are constantly having to tune their VSO to enjoy the mediocre sound, they will lose interest. That started to happen with our daughter before getting the Ricard Bunnel G1. Now it sounds beautiful and is enjoyable to play. :001_smile:Hope this helps!http://www.kennedyviolins.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 also check out sharmusic.com for supplies. pretty sure they'll ship internationally. agreed, at this stage an inexpensive used violin will probably give better sound than a cheap new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASDAQ Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 My beginner string players are both on Gligas. Ours are cello though, so fewer options and way more expensive, no matter what. Very cheap strings can be hard. Some of them are going to be complete duds. They will go out of tune as soon as she tunes them and be useless for learning. The ideal would be to take a prospective instrument to a teacher before purchasing it. I really, really, REALLY do not think she should teach herself. Strings are tricky beasts. You can get terrible habits very quickly. It will take longer to undo the bad habits, and it will be more expensive, than if she starts well from the beginning. Even if you can only swing half an hour every other week, it's better than trying to figure it out herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Are you in Bogota? Since there are music programs there, I would think that there would be music/instrument stores. In general (speaking from U.S. perspective of course) it is far, far better to rent a violin at first. You might check to see if anywhere near you has a rent to buy program. Also, I agree that it is preferable to have a teacher. Besides helping a student develop good habits, a teacher can tune the violin, which is not a as easy as it might sound. Often, school and university music departments offer short how-to-teach courses to their better students. In my area, student teachers charge about half as much as more established teachers. If you are looking for material, the Suzuki series is excellent; I like that there are cds as well as books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemsMom Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I do not have much experience purchasing violins but both my DDs (ages 23 and 11) play. I would be concerned that a violin at that price would sound terrible. DD23 has a really cheap violin that some of her friends purchased for her and she told me it is a wonderful example of how bad a violin can sound. I know the orchestra teacher at our local middle school and he buys Samuel Eastman VL100 violins to loan his students. I have the same model and we use it as our spare violin (DD11 outgrew the sound before she grew into the full size). I had the good fortune to find the violin at a garage sale but I looked online and found they retail for $180-$350. And I agree that a good used student violin will sound better than a new cheap one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASDAQ Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 That is where I got my violin. I am so pleased with it. My instructor is pleased too. Our instructor is happy with theirs as well. Obviously getting a 1/8th cello is a much trickier business though. Especially if you want one with a nice sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheryl Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Hey Lanny, Our dd is fairly new too. She's in her 3rd year and we bought hers from Southwest Strings for about $100. Violins, as you know, can range from less than $100 for the beginner to thousands of $$$ for the professional. Dd's violin teacher has a music degree or two and over 30 years experience in schools, with homeschool community, professional orchestra, etc. She is so credentialed it's not even funny and she thinks our little violin does the job well. She strongly suggested buying an octagonal bow with horsehair and other features with frog and bridge that I'll be happy to look up for you if you're interested. Some violins have a solid back and others have 2 panels. Violin is beautiful. PS...Have her sized. At her age she is probably in a 4/4 aka full aka adult violin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I would suggest renting a violin if she wants to try it out to see if she likes it. I would not recommend purchasing a violin without first hearing how it sounds. Some inexpensive violins are VSO's as others have suggested. I second the not attempting to learn violin on her own suggestion. Learning proper posture and set-up, tuning the violin, and how to hear proper intonation from the beginning are all critical to future success on the instrument. Bad habits are very difficult to break and will limit how far one is able to progress on the instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 Our sincere THANK YOU, to all of the forum members who took the time to reply to this thread! There is a lot of very good advice, and many suggestions, that are helpful to us! Much appreciated! One thing we are going to do is to try to find a local Violin teacher for DD. We live in a Rural area, and possibly there is someone in town, or even here in our subdivision. We realize the extremely inexpensive Violin (or VSO) I linked to in my original post will have severe limitations. My wife wants DD to have some "skin in the game", hoping that DD will continue with her interest of learning how to play the Violin. We live a long way from the Arts school in Cali, where I know they have classes in many different things, and from the public university there, where possibly we could find a student teacher in the School of Music. When I go into town, later this morning, I am going to go to the Cultural center, to see if there is someone there who teaches Violin. We know DD will need a much more expensive Violin, and if she is serious about this interest, we will get it for her, ASAP, once we have someone to guide us with the purchase. It is something like when we wanted to buy a Telescope for my wife, many years ago. We knew nothing about Telescopes. We wemt to the Physics Department of the public university in Cali and a man there suggested the telescope we bought for my wife. The university had many of them, that they used for demonstrating Astronomy to school children. DD learned how to play the Flute, in her 2nd brick and mortar school, but she never learned how to read music, so she is teaching herself how to do that now. :-) We have a Yamaha Keyboard, but DD doesn't have an interest in wanting to learn how to play it well. We need to go to downtown Cali, once or twice, in the next week or two, but my wife does not want to just walk into a music store there and buy what they have in stock in the store, and what they sell us, which might be perfect or horrible, since we have no idea of what we are doing, at this time. My wife would rather buy this extremely inexpensive new Violin (VSO?), from the company on that web site, where we are not pressured, to get DD started. Buying a used one is something we would need someone who knows what they are doing, to help us with, so that we don't put our money into a sinking ship. However, it sounds like after DD has an instructor to help with the purchase, that buying a good Used Violin, might be the first one that my wife and I buy for DD. Thanks again, for sharing your time and your experience with us! Lanny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 my older 2 play violin and have gligas too. There is a real difference in learning to play on a very inferior instrument. It is more difficult to get a good sound - which can be demoralizing for a beginner - and causes more strain on the hand/fingers, which in turn leads to bad technique. The gligas are around $500 aussie dollars and that's about the minimum needed to spend on a good instrument. I also strongly agree with pp that violin is an instrument that is better learnt with a teacher. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 fwiw, we are in to violins in a big way. things to remember: a) a few good lessons at the beginning to get them started on the right track is invaluable b) used violins are usually better than new violins. i would never buy a violin i hadn't taken to a teacher, even though i've played for forty years. c) if you were stateside, i'd recommend sharmusic.com. they will send you instruments and bows to try. if you buy one, there is no charge. i don't know if they work internationally or not. d) musicians are remarkably generous. someone will steer you in the right direction if you ask. e) buying instruments over the internet is fraught with peril. most music stores have rental instruments that you can then buy if you decide to go that route. we are now into multiple thousands spent on each instrument, and bows.... but in the beginning, we started with a simple rental for one dd, and a hand me down violin for the other. hth, ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie in VA Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 fwiw, we are in to violins in a big way. things to remember: a) a few good lessons at the beginning to get them started on the right track is invaluable b) used violins are usually better than new violins. i would never buy a violin i hadn't taken to a teacher, even though i've played for forty years. c) if you were stateside, i'd recommend sharmusic.com. they will send you instruments and bows to try. if you buy one, there is no charge. i don't know if they work internationally or not. d) musicians are remarkably generous. someone will steer you in the right direction if you ask. e) buying instruments over the internet is fraught with peril. most music stores have rental instruments that you can then buy if you decide to go that route. we are now into multiple thousands spent on each instrument, and bows.... but in the beginning, we started with a simple rental for one dd, and a hand me down violin for the other. hth, ann This! I am so glad you posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mnemosyne Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Most string stores offer some percentage of store credit toward the eventual purchase of a rental instrument. It would be better quality than something you got off the Internet for under $100. I don't know the age of your daughter, but definitely make sure you know the correct size before you buy. Playing on instruments that are too big is the pet peeve of our violin teacher. 😉 This is what I did, as well as most of the students I played with. It worked very well - students that dropped out didn't spend hundreds on a violin, and the ones that stuck with it had it paid in full by the time they were done. It was also nice because we just moved up in size as we needed it... but at 13, she's probably fine with a full-sized violin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASDAQ Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 If the choice is cheap violin/teacher, that is way better than okay violin/no teacher. A $300 Gliga in the US is probably a $500 instrument in Australia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I agree that a few lessons in the beginning will be worth every penny. It greatly increases the chances that your daughter will enjoy the process more and give playing the violin a real shot. It's frustrating enough with a teacher. And I tried to teach myself to my great regret. My position wasn't quite right, and I threw my back into terrible spasms. I spent a lot more on doctors, chiropractors, and drugs than I would have on just getting it right to start with, and I have never picked up the violin since. But I was old when I tried. Your daughter's back may be a little more .... limber. I also think a teacher would help you find a reasonable instrument. People who buy cheapo instruments don't keep them long. A teacher would probably be able to easily locate an inexpensive instrument to try on or suggest retailers where you are to help you. Having kids in music, I have given away and loaned our beginning instruments to other students here and there, and I expect that is probably pretty common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Another possibility is lessons via Skype. It would still be FAR, FAR more preferable to have the first lessons be in person so that the instructor can be sure that correct posture and positioning is being learned. But if you're really rural, lessons via Skype might work. Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I strongly recommend finding a local violin teacher and enlisting their help in purchasing a violin. From a budgetary and musical standpoint you will be much better off buying a decent quality instrument used than a cheap new instrument. If your daughter tries to start learning on a poor quality instrument she will likely become frustrated very quickly. I have found used student violins that play very nicely in the $100-300 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheryl Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 OK, Lanny, I had to come back.......LOL I really don't support "renting" a violin unless you have a lot of extra monthly money you don't know what to do with. In that case, we'll help take some of it off of your hands! LOL! When my dd was 8-9 she saw "the" Celtic Women on t.v. and said she wanted to be one. OK............. I gave it some time, and we bought a cheap $50 violin and she took violin for the first year. It was maybe a 1/2 size. After a year her homeschool violin teacher (who is a homeschooling Mom herself) found that she needed to return to "work" (more full time vs. the supplemental that is offered in the homeschooling community). We looked high and low for a new violin teacher. We found plenty that were out of our budget so my daughter went without lessons for about 3 or so years!!!!!!! Not good. I asked my circle of friends and this current teacher's name popped up. My dd started with her Jan. 2013. During those 3 years dd grew from 1/2 to "full" size. We sold the violin to my friend whose dd is one of my dd's friends as well. We bought another inexpensive violin (teacher was pleased with our choice). Unfortunately my dd is no longer interested in playing the violin. Why NOT to rent a violin: 1. Here it's $20-25/month (we more than made back our $100 investment) 2. Violin can get lost, stolen, dropped/broken in which case it "can" be expensive to repair 3. She may lose interestI started a thread about 2 years ago maybe asking for recommendations on violins, etc. We got the most for our buck - in this case $100. No, it's not a high end, but I wouldn't put an inexperienced student on one and especially with the reasons above. If your dd shows continued interest and aptitude, then over time a new violin would be justified. My 2 cents. :) Hopefully your dd will stick with it. It's a beautiful instrument! I'm hoping my dd will stick with it at least a bit longer. She wants to play the guitar. We'll see........HTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASDAQ Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 The good student instruments do retain their value fairly well, although I have no idea how easy it is to resell a violin in Colombia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Learning to play violin is very different than most instruments - especially the ones the OP's dd already plays (keyboard and flute). If you aren't in the position to get lessons and a good quality used violin at the present time, I'd steer toward a different stringed instrument like the guitar or ukulele, which are both much cheaper and are easier to learn. I always wanted to play the violin, and was given one as a teen. I could already play piano, accordion, clarinet and trumpet, and had taught myself guitar. I thought it would be easy. I bought a book and tried to learn to play, however the bowing technique and the lack of frets on the violin are pretty big stumbling blocks to overcome on one's own. There are a lot of teaching videos on Youtube available now, which would be useful but not nearly the same as having a teacher to build up proper technique and motivate a new learner. Two of my dc have been playing the violin for 4 years now, and the other two play classical guitar. It's like night and day which is easier to learn. If you really want dd to have a positive experience learning to play the violin, and it is a beautiful instrument, it really is worth it to do it right from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 So what is the "peril"? Aside from perhaps buying it from a private seller, buying a violin from an on-line dealer is as risky as buying anything from an on-line dealer. Most of these places let you return items. They require insurance coverage for shipping it. Some places will let you, for a fee, try out a few before deciding. Not everyone lives anywhere near a shop that sells violins. the peril is that with violins, its all about sound.... which comes from wood, and bacteria and shape and strings and bow and rosin and and and. two violins made by the same folks at roughly the same time out of the approx. the same wood can sound Very, very different. you can't tell that on line. flip side, is that for under a hundred dollars, you could try it and see, esp. if it is a place you could send the violin back to if it didn't turn out well. but there may well be folks out there like us who now have more violins than people, and would be happy to sell you the one they started on. once you find a teacher, they will know. its a joyous thing; i hope she loves it! ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 the peril is that with violins, its all about sound.... which comes from wood, and bacteria and shape and strings and bow and rosin and and and. two violins made by the same folks at roughly the same time out of the approx. the same wood can sound Very, very different. you can't tell that on line. flip side, is that for under a hundred dollars, you could try it and see, esp. if it is a place you could send the violin back to if it didn't turn out well. but there may well be folks out there like us who now have more violins than people, and would be happy to sell you the one they started on. once you find a teacher, they will know. its a joyous thing; i hope she loves it! ann I love your advice on this thread. But I am wondering how someone could try out a violin if he/she couldn't play. I mean even a decent instrument could sound awful, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I love your advice on this thread. But I am wondering how someone could try out a violin if he/she couldn't play. I mean even a decent instrument could sound awful, lol. Someone at the store will play it for you. Even if you do play, when you size up it takes some time to relearn the finger positions (and the violins don't have tape until you put it on). Trinqueta just got a full size and it's been frustrating for her to have to learn where her fingers should go all over again. Especially since her teacher wants her to learn by ear without the tapes as guides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMD Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 If the choice is cheap violin/teacher, that is way better than okay violin/no teacher. A $300 Gliga in the US is probably a $500 instrument in Australia. this is what i was coming to say, we're probably talking about the same model sparkly unicorn. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I love your advice on this thread. But I am wondering how someone could try out a violin if he/she couldn't play. I mean even a decent instrument could sound awful, lol. you are right; it would be hard for a beginner to tell. teachers often ask students to bring an instrument to them before they pay money. also, many music stores will have a string person and will play for you. and there might be a conductor or local high school teacher who would love to shop with you. hth, ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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