Math Woes...Where do I go from here?

[MaeFlowers]

A little background...This is our first year home schoolng and we started out the year with MM 3A. It did NOT go well. After three weeks, I ordered BA and we changed programs. This did go well at first but I could tell ds was starting to get bored/burnt out on it. I also felt like something was missing from BA although I cannot put my finger on what it is. So, we decided to go back to MM after Christmas. We were flying through it until last week. It has become the first three weeks all over again.

He just shuts down when the math book comes out. I have to sit next to him and keep him focused as best I can. I have to goad him to start and finish every.single.problem. His mind wanders and he complains about math. It is the only subject he complains about, actually. He says it is just too boring. I talked to him about going back to BA but he says that it is too hard. My response was to this was "Why? Because you have to think?" A huge grin spead across his face and he said yes.

We have eleven weeks left for this school year. I am not sure what to do. There are only two chapters left in the MM3. I am thinking about taking a break to finish the last chapter of BA 3B and then returning to MM3 to finish out the year. This will probably take us about 3, maybe, 4 weeks. I don't know what to do after that to finish out this year. And next year, what do I do then? MM is not going to work. BA only has 4A out and it seems their production is only getting slower.

I have to find a math that will work well for him. I asked him why he has so much trouble with paying attention in math. He says it is because he does not like pages of math problems. He defined that as pages of 5*12=___ or 56/7=_____. When he sees this type of page, he freezes up and sometimes says he does not understand it. He just stares blankly at the page. If I turn it into a word problem, he can answer immediately. He loves word problems and puzzles.

So, I guess me question is, What would you do in this situation? What programs and/or supplements would you recommended for a student like this?

 

 

 

 

[Elisabet1]

Sometimes, you just can't follow the book.

 

We have always had detours. We would be chugging along and hit a road block. I would back up and review until we were ready to move forward again. Maybe I found another route to explain whatever we were covering and then get back on track with the curriculum we were using. The best part is, in the end, my children got very good at math! I always see kids in public school where the program requires they just keep moving forward even when the children didn't get parts. But by solidifying things before moving forward, it tailors to the child and just makes the child much stronger in the long run.

[TianXiaXueXiao]

If you are looking for a new math program, I would definitely give Saxon Home School Math a try and use the placement test. I would also supplement with Khan Academy and math facts practice on Xtra Math or use and app to make it more fun. Many people here love Singapore, so you may find what you are after there, but I think Saxon is much more open and go and has lots of review built in since it is spiral.

[mommymonster]

I have no good recommendations, but my son is the exact. same. way. It has been brutal. DS8 is in second grade, so we didn't have the Beast option (for where DS8 was this year), so I'm writing my own math curriculum. It's set in the Civil War, and is all "practical" word problems. Things like balancing accounts, ordering supplies, and handing out ammunition (very, very popular). I guess I'd say do what works. For next year, I'm tempted to buy a cheap math program and turn it into word problems. That way you have the framework of a math program, and still can get the kid through the page. 

 

Best of luck!

[MaeFlowers]

Elisabet1- I am realizing that I am just going to have to mix up different programs. I was trying to avoid this because I didn't think I had the know how or the funds. I think I am just going to have to figure out.

 

TWells- He is doing Xtramath now. I haven't tried Kahn Academy but I just checked it out and think it might be a good supplement when I just can't explain something well enough. I looked at Saxon and Singapore before I bought MM. I almost bought Saxon but changed my mind at the last minute. I will have to check it out again. Singapore, too.

 

mommymonster- I have seriously thought about writing my own program because it is brutal. Exhausting. Frustrating. I know he understands the math...he just won't do the work without me sitting there pushing him through every problem. I am sorry yours is like this too but it makes me feel better that ds is not the only one. Maybe you should publish your curriculum?

[OneStepAtATime]

Have you looked at Math In Focus?  Lots of word problems and pretty friendly, not overwhelming presentation.  You can get the texts used on Amazon for usually not too much at all (I got mine for a penny plus $3.99 shipping) and the workbooks through Rainbow Resource for not that much either (about $9?).  You may not need the TM, which is the costlier part....although some say that there is a lot of great info in the TM that they are happy they have access to, along with the manipulatives you can also purchase through Rainbow Resource.

[DWHS]

You are not alone! This is our second year homeschooling and last year my 2nd grader could either burn through his math in 10 minutes or do one problem in an hour, depending on the day. My older son would become discouraged so easily. We primarily use Singapore, but this year we added Life of Fred. LOF has really sparked their interest (confidence, enthusiasm, motivation...) in math and now they both get their Singapore done much more quickly. In fact, it takes less time to do both programs than it took last year with one. Singapore has some supplements you might want to check out: Challenging word problems (all word problems) and Intensive Practice (deeper, lots of different types of problems, very little repetition). 

 

 

[Tanikit]

I would not make my child do pages of problems like you described if he prefers word problems - it may of course be a space issue too - why not try giving him the same problems but only 1-2 problems per page and see if that goes better. Often there is far more space allocated to a word problem than to a shorter sum and it just seems overwhelming. Word problems in general take more thinking. It is possible he is bored and needs things mixed up a bit.

 

Layout can affect children greatly - when I see my DD is being overwhelmed by the layout then I get out an exercise book and write the exact same problems in a way that is less intimidating and suddenly there are fewer problems. At the same time I also jump curricula - we do a little of this one and a little of that one - in Horizons (we use this for review) she never does more than half the problems on the page simply because it is unnecessary and to her it goes faster than she suspects when she can skip some.

[stripe]

I would use some sort of computer game to take the place of a page of problems, if you must do them, or otherwise present them one at a time, whether written on a blackboard or oral. I posted once about my older child's dread of pages in MEP with a huge number of problems all at once, so I understand where you're coming from. They struck me as awful, too!

 

If your son is reasonably competent, I would reduce the number of problems, have him come back periodically for review, and keep moving forward. Many programs have too much review at the beginning of the year; if I am just coming from using something else, I minimize the review and just dive into new material.

[boscopup]

A few things...

 

1) The way I used MM that worked well for DS1 was to assign no more than half the problems on the page most of the time (I don't think we ever did ALL of it except multi-digit multiplication, where he really needed that much practice). I also took the workbook in MY hands during teaching time and used the white board. That made things more fun and interesting, plus it got discussion going.

 

2) I used supplements to break up our MM usage - Zaccaro, Singapore IP/CWP, etc. BA would fit nicely here. I usually used MM 4 times a week and a supplement the 5th time. Or we might have two math sessions one day, but keep the total time spent on math reasonable for a child his age.

 

3) Ultimately, we switched to Singapore after learning long division in 4B (we switched to Singapore 4A). The presentation was just so much better, and while it still has a page of the same type of problem, the number of problems on that page is drastically reduced. There is plenty of white space as well.

 

4) My younger kids are using CLE Math, which is spiral. I combine it with Beast Academy for my middle son, and I plan to do that with the youngest also when he's ready. Oldest is now using AoPS Prealgebra as his main math, but he also has CLE Math a couple grade levels lower on the side. We had to work up to "hard problems all the time", and having the CLE kind of breaks that up and gives him some "easy math". Note that both kids are ahead in math, so it's easier to use multiple programs and not finish something in a school year. In your case, I'd either make adjustments to how you use MM or switch to one program that will have a nicer presentation.

 

I don't think I would have enjoyed BA as a kid. I mean, the guide would have been great, but the practice problems... ugh. I hate geometry, for one thing, and it's full of that. But second, at a young age, I wouldn't have enjoyed working that hard at math. My 9 year old is just recently (ie, in the last few months) enjoying doing many hard problems. I really had to ease him into that. I knew he was capable, but just a year ago, he would burst into tears if he didn't have an answer right away. Now he'll sit and think and not get upset. Phew! My middle son is 7, and CLE is his main program, where he's occasionally learning something new but mostly doing review (CLE has a LOT of review), and then in the afternoon we do a couple pages of BA. It ends up being slow going through BA, but that's fine with me, given their publication schedule. We started BA3A I think in October last year, and we started 3B last week. I use it in bite sized chunks, because my 7 year old is absolutely not ready to do hard math all the time. In fact, I kept math super easy on purpose for a while when he was really working hard at learning to read. Now that reading has gotten easier (not easy, but easier), I've upped the challenge in math, but again... most of his math time is spent on easier work with plenty of review. The review sometimes gets boring for him, but he's the type of kid that if I let him start skipping some things, he'll want to skip more and more. So he really *needs* to do all the work, character-wise. That has been going well. This week, he did CLE pretty quickly and learned what I've been telling him - If it's easy, you can get it done quickly. If you can't do it quick, you need to practice more to get it automatic. ;)

[MaeFlowers]

Thank you everyone for the replies. I spent some time today looking at all of the programs you recommended. Right now I am leaning towards Singapore with some supplements mixed in relieve boredom.

[Roadrunner]

Thank you everyone for the replies. I spent some time today looking at all of the programs you recommended. Right now I am leaning towards Singapore with some supplements mixed in relieve boredom.

SM workbooks will be "boring" if he doesn't like easy problems. IP books will be challenging, but pages are crammed in those books, so you would have to write them out potentially. 

[Dolphin]

Third grade was when we introduced Life of Fred. It really turned math around for us. My son has been successful with a Teaching Textbooks, Life of Fred mix. We also use Khan Academy. Best of luck, Math can be a headache, but you will find a combo that works for you.

[pantone]

Yeah, if your kid likes working out puzzles, Life of Fred is pretty good for that. 

 

My spouse is an engineer with a math degree, and he has the most annoying habit of critiquing the math programs I have picked AFTER the fact. "That's wrong. That's flat-out wrong, no...no, the way this question has been phrased...who *published* this?" And the only -- ONLY! -- program I've seen him actually approve of is LoF. "It teaches mathematical thinking," he says. There may be only five questions at the end of the chapter. But they are HARD questions, and they ask you to apply concepts and stretch them further and sometimes take a guess at the next step. They are ALL word problems and puzzles. Usually pretty serious ones. 

 

The downside of LoF is there's no drill. Seriously, you're supposed to internalize and memorize things with only a few problems. So most people supplement to some degree. 

 

My DD7 was dragged through Everyday Mathematics at her school, and it taught her to hate math. She cried every time the workbook came out. (Goodbye school, goodbye EM!) The early grades of Fred were just coming out at about that time, and Fred is what made her stop being scared of math. Turns out she's actually pretty good at it. 

 

And fwiw....multiplication is the bane of my existence. The Kumon workbook finally worked to teach DS his tables. Tried it with DD. She retained 18 percent of her facts. That's all. After four months!! (*headdesk* *headdesk*) TimezAttack now has her up to 72 percent of her facts. 

 

[Paige]

I'm not sure a curriculum switch would make much difference. Sometimes kids just don't like a subject and have to persevere and get it done anyway. IMO, the drill-pages and pages of problems or something similar-is necessary and unavoidable if you want him to have a firm foundation unless he's the type of kid who memorizes his facts effortlessly. It's one thing to be able to add/subtract/multiple/divide well if given time to think and quite another to do it quickly and with no effort. I think the drill is what moves kids from needing to calculate to just knowing. If he hates that part of every program, then you may be able to skip it on paper- just cross those problems out- and try learning them with card games or computer games like Timez Attack. That could be more fun for some kids. My math haters hate the games and the pages of practice problems on paper equally.