Can we discuss college fit and college visits...some more?

[Trilliums]

I hardly even know where to start and I am sure this will get long and ramble-y.  :willy_nilly:

 

 

Short version:  We went on our first college visit and I am debating whether or not to schedule more over spring break. 

 

 

Loooong version:

DS (high school Junior) is definitely a STEM guy, but we visited a LAC known for undergrads going on to grad school in the sciences.  DS met with a physics professor, went on the campus tour, ate in the cafeteria, etc.  He did not sit in on a class due to scheduling issues.   So what did we take away from the visit?  We caught a glimpse of the kind of individualized attention an ug could get there.  When we arrived to meet the prof. he and another prof. were meeting with a current student and discussing that student's independent research.  We learned about the flexibility of the general ed requirements.  The prof even discussed the possibility of DS getting a degree in three years based on the math and physics classes DS will complete by the end of senior year.  Many facilities were quite new with well maintained buildings and grounds.  Students were helpful and friendly.  The dining hall was packed during lunch hour.  I was a bit worried when  DS  picked an iceberg lettuce salad, 3 sticks of celery and an apple for lunch, quite an uncharacteristic lunch for over 6ft DS with the hollow leg.  He said it was a defensive move against institutionalized food.  All those jokes about Italian mothers pestering their kids about eating enough food came to mind!  Students piled up their backpacks outside of the cafeteria  with no worry about theft.  We saw some examples of the school's self governance policy, but I don't know if DS really had a notion of how that might impact him compared to the kind of situation one would encounter at a big state school. DS said he could imagine spending four years there and that the level of individualized attention was impressive.   Of course, he has also said he could imagine attending our local state U (30k plus students vs the LAC with under 2K). 

 

 Overall, after the visit none of us (including DS) can say whether or not this school would be a good fit for him.  It would certainly be workable and we realize the school experience depends on the student's mindset and effort.  Clearly, the experience at this LAC would be vastly different from our state flagship U, although that is not to say that it would be automatically better.   I cannot confidently say that he is more likely to have a meaningful mentor at the LAC.  What if he ends up having basic differences with the primary prof in his area of interest (I actually find this hard to imagine since DS doesn't tend to stir up trouble at all..but still...something odd COULD happen...yes I am a perennial worrier)?

 

At this point, we don't know what criteria he should be looking for or how to identify whether or not the schools have the elements that will help him grow and develop during his college years.  How can we determine if it is a school with a community well suited for him, it is a school where he will feel at ease and welcomed, part of the *tribe* so to speak?  He is quite introverted and a 2e king of kid (gifted with LDs).  He has very strong analytical/critical thinking skills/concept synthesizing abilities, but is also more of a slow and methodical thinker--where does a kid like that even fit in?  How in the world can one even begin to determine this types of issues from a visit?

 

So far DS has said he would prefer a school where professors are willing to take the time to talk to students (and not act as though this is burdensome) and a school close to home.  Also, he hopes to be around fellow students who do not complain if the instructor covers material that is not on the test (this came up a few times when he took physics 2 at our local university).  That's all I have from him so far concerning preferences.  Sometimes he says a warmer climate would be good, but he can't really have a warmer climate and still be close to home...unless we move.  :)

 

We have been considering visiting a few more colleges--within about 3-4 hour drives.  For us, that would probably mean over night stays, particularly if we went to the Chicago area and visited more than one school.  Currently though, I am not strongly feeling that the effort is worth it.  I am thinking time might be better spent working with DS to come up with a master list of potential schools and then narrowing down based on info available online.  We can go from there....

On the other hand, right now he has a lot of free time since he is not taking any classes at the U this semester.  Senior year, travel will be restricted due to class schedules.

 

So yes...thoughts? Ideas?  Advice? Commiseration?  Chill pills offered?

 

 

[creekland]

A really short response since I have really limited time on the computer...

 

We found the more schools we visited the easier it was to tell differences - and whether or not my guys would like them. 

 

But also for homework (from home) look at course offerings within the major and compare them.  See if you can find where recent grads have gone - basics like that.  It can help eliminate (or add) schools.

 

And if he wants warmer - with the winter we've had, moving would be tempting!

 

Smaller schools tend to be better with LDs...

[MysteryJen]

I took the advice of some one (can't remember who, but surely from this board) and we only visited schools that admitted him. To make our list of schools to apply to, dh, ds1 and I sat down with books/websites etc and made a master list of 32 schools. This was based on location, tuition exchanges, possibilities for scholarships, etc. He is a liberal arts dude without a clue right now, so the school had to have a variety of things he was pretty interested in. We did a bracket (like the Final Four) and narrowed it down to 10. He ended up applying to 8 and was admitted everywhere.

 

Once the college stuff became real...then the visits had value. And he could start to see himself there.

 

Visits during his junior year would have been a waste of time for him and hugely frustrating for us.

[In The Great White North]

 

 

Once the college stuff became real...then the visits had value. And he could start to see himself there.

 

 

Their first application (for Summer Seminar) made it real.  Fortunately, that happened in January of junior year and we had forced a few visits that fall.  They didn't come up with anywhere near 32 they were even remotely interested in.

 

 

 

We found the more schools we visited the easier it was to tell differences - and whether or not my guys would like them.

 

I have had to take dc on visits to schools they had absolutely no interest in, just to get the ball rolling.  We rolled them into trips to grandparents that we were going on anyway.  They didn't apply to any of them but they did give them something to compare.

 

 

 

But also for homework (from home) look at course offerings within the major and compare them.  See if you can find where recent grads have gone - basics like that.  It can help eliminate (or add) schools.

 

 

The required curriculum and course offerings eliminated several.

[MysteryJen]

Oh, ds wasn't interested in 32. In fact, he wasn't interested in any at all. Dh and I forced the issue and stacked the deck for him. He did have to do the research to do the brackets though.

 

This was all an effort to dislodge him from the easiest plan of drifting along working and taking a few classes at the cc. Which, to me, was not acceptable.

 

He is excited now about next year and future plans. So I don't regret the huge push.

[Susan in TN]

One way to go about it is to visit any and every school near you, just to get a feel for different kinds of campuses - small, large, public, private, community, religious, non-religious, etc.

 

Then when he starts to select the schools he is interested in, he will have something to compare them with.

 

For my oldest ds, we started way way too late selecting and visiting schools (fall of senior year). He just felt he had no frame to work within to form an opinion and wasn't even sure what he wanted to study in college. I ended up doing a lot of the initial legwork, finding schools that I thought would be good matches, but I really had no idea myself as to what kind of school ds would prefer. I suspect this may be true for many 1st-borns...they haven't had the benefit of seeing an older sibling go through the process.

 

We are still in the process, and have visited 3 of 4 schools at least 3 times each. His top choice (out of state, of course...rolling eyes) he has only visited once, but we made it a 3-day, very thorough visit. Ds is slow to make decisions, though, so you may not go through quite so much. We are bringing my 9th grade dd along with us to visits as much as possible so she gets an earlier start than ds.

 

As for your ds personality, I think many of us worry about our kids fitting in, especially introverted/gifted/quirky/etc but I remember for myself, and dh, and many others I have talked to, that college is often the place where you find " your people".

[Nan in Mass]

We did visits junior year because senior year looked like it might be hard to schedule and it was easier for my children to visit when actually going was still quite far away.  I was glad we did because senior year, they applied early decision and they had community college classes.  At first, we just visited types to try to get some sense of what different sorts of colleges were like, so a big state university, a small state college, a big private uni, an alternative-y college, a small lac, ...  I chose ones close to home for convenience and I knew they wouldn't want to go to most of them.  Visiting was rather upsetting (that is an understatement) and so I squished all the visiting together so they could relax and go back to ordinary life afterwards.  Senior year, we went to the open house of their early action first choice.  We would have visited others after they were accepted, if they hadn't gotten their first choice.  Mine were pretty clear on what they wanted for major, location, and academic structure, after a bit of thinking, and there were few choices within those parameters, so we didn't have to do a lot of visiting.  I would have done more if I hadn't thought their first choice would suit them well.  It was hard to talk mine into doing much visiting, so I tried to keep it to a minimum.

 

Nan

[Jane in NC]

To start, I think it is important to acknowledge whether your student has been on campuses before or whether the facilities at any school will just wow him.  I don't think that a teenager sees a campus in quite the same light as an adult who knows that the feel of large vs. small campuses or urban vs. non will just be different.

 

Secondly, while we did some family visits in the beginning, I advocate for students visiting on their own or at least spending a night on campus in the dorm.  The latter was beneficial for my guy. 

 

Finally, the campus tour was less interesting to my son than talking to faculty.  I remember peeling off from a campus tour to meet with a faculty member in the archaeology lab.  "You can do that?" a parent asked.  Of course you can!  Just make the appointment.

[Caroline]

To start, I think it is important to acknowledge whether your student has been on campuses before or whether the facilities at any school will just wow him.  I don't think that a teenager sees a campus in quite the same light as an adult who knows that the feel of large vs. small campuses or urban vs. non will just be different.

 

Secondly, while we did some family visits in the beginning, I advocate for students visiting on their own or at least spending a night on campus in the dorm.  The latter was beneficial for my guy. 

 

Finally, the campus tour was less interesting to my son than talking to faculty.  I remember peeling off from a campus tour to meet with a faculty member in the archaeology lab.  "You can do that?" a parent asked.  Of course you can!  Just make the appointment.

 

This was very important to my son. It helped that his dad and I knew faculty at the schools he was considering. However, in the end, my son went to the school he had been dreaming about going to since fifth grade, and majoring in the major he decided on in fifth grade. Most kids aren't like that, I suppose. (My next one isn't like that, but he's only in 7th grade, so, well, I have some time...)

[Jane in NC]

This was very important to my son. It helped that his dad and I knew faculty at the schools he was considering. However, in the end, my son went to the school he had been dreaming about going to since fifth grade, and majoring in the major he decided on in fifth grade. Most kids aren't like that, I suppose. (My next one isn't like that, but he's only in 7th grade, so, well, I have some time...)

You raise a good point.  My son too knew what he wanted to study going into the college search.  In his case, he was reading CVs of faculty before applying.  Not every teen has made this determination by age 16 or 17.

[Sunshine State Sue]

My son was never interested in campus tours.  He grudgingly did 3 that were convenient.  1 at a private LAC while we were in town for a basketball tournament.  He liked this school and it set a bar for the other schools.  1 large public uni on our way to family reunion.  He didn't like this one, and it turned him off of large schools in general.  1 private uni on the way to a basketball camp.  We thought this one would be a good fit, but we all realized before the orientation session was over that it wouldn't be. 

 

Ds didn't apply to any of those schools we visited.  He also didn't particularly know what he wanted to major in, though he leans STEM.

 

Finally, we toured Mines when the basketball coach flew him there.  It wasn't as nice as school #1, but it felt right.

 

Good luck!

 

ETA:  Ds did 2 other campus tours with basketball coaches at small LAC summer before senior year.  Dh was with him.

 

 

[Trilliums]

I appreciate all the interesting thoughts.  :)

 

We visited this LAC because it is nearby and the visit was at a convenient time for us. My thoughts were pretty well aligned with what you all are mentioning here--visit a wide variety of schools to get a feel for what is available and to see if some preferences materialize.  Both kids were initially reluctant (my other son is sophomore and he came along for the experience) to visit a liberal arts school.  So, in thinking about it, I can say that by visiting we at least established that LACs should not necessarily be immediately eliminated for my kids and this one in particular is a viable option.

 

 

Son has taken physics 2 at the local, big state university so he does have another college exposure for comparison. The class had over 100 students enrolled, although Friday lectures had fewer than 50 students in attendance.  Also, for the weekly discussion groups, held by a grad student, DS was often the only student to show up out of over 25 enrolled.  On the one hand, he enjoyed spending an hour just talking about physics with a grad student (the guy would ask DS what he wanted to chat about), but on the other hand, it concerned DS that so many students did not bother to show up.  We have an official visit with the dept. scheduled.  Once he does that, it might help as a basis for comparison to the other school. 

 

On solo visits: DS won't be eligible for his driver's license until this fall.  He is prone to getting lost too.  I can imagine this for attending admitted student visit days NEXT spring but prior to that...I hve a hard time imagining it.  Right now it has not become  enough of a priority for him to have that much gumption.  Not to say he is ambivalent about going to college.  He is sure abour going and pursuing either physics or math.  Figuring out the details of where and how do overwhelm him though.

 

Hmm...We do live close enough to a couple of other small colleges.  They are not schools I could realistically imagine DS attending but I wonder if official visits to them could still be useful.  DS was initially nervous talking to the physics prof at the LAC but after a few minutes he noticeably relaxed.  More visits and informal talks with profs might help him grow more comfortable with the whole process.

 

On making appts with faculty members:  Do you generally arrange this directly with the department or through the visit coordinator?  At the LAC the visit coordinator made the appt and it went smoothly.  The prof then offered to take DS to meet a math prof but we did not have time due to the tour.

 

 

 

 

[Jane in NC]

Some of my son's college visits involved flying to the nearest major city and then taking public or school transportation.  I would not expect a teen to drive long distances for lone visits either!

 

The Admissions folks arranged meetings with faculty for him.

 

 

[Kareni]

Some of my son's college visits involved flying to the nearest major city and then taking public or school transportation.  I would not expect a teen to drive long distances for lone visits either!

 

The Admissions folks arranged meetings with faculty for him.

 

Likewise for my daughter ~ she flew or took Amtrak; once she did both to visit two colleges that were cross country from us.  (Driving would not have been advised since she didn't/doesn't have a license!)

 

Generally, my daughter went through admissions to set up visits, but on two occasions she contacted the department directly.  Once was when she was in contention for a department scholarship and once was when she was visiting at a time that visits were not encouraged.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Elisabet1]

Just make the visits. If they are schools he might otherwise be interested in, best to visit now. It will give him more to compare. 

 

We just did not visit enough. It has been awful. We could have visited a few other places, if we started sooner. We did not. Then we dropped the ball on applications. If we could do it over, we would visit more schools. If it is just a matter of going 3-4 hours, I would definitely be there.

[ThisIsTheDay]

I'm a little late in joining in.  We made our first college visit to UVA when my oldest was a sophomore, making it into a fun day trip.  My goal was to keep the visits low pressure; I knew that would work best for us.  I don't think either of us knew what we were looking for, but over time, it gave her a chance to see how different campuses could be, and she was able to imagine herself there.  We included some schools that were ~3 hours away, and she was able to tour one on the other side of the country while visiting grandparents. She mostly made the choices, but I included a few schools that didn't make her list, two of which she ended up applying to.

 

Her preference was for larger schools, but we visited one with 5,000 students that she decided was still big enough.  After several tours, she also realized she would *greatly* prefer a private bathroom instead of the more common large bathrooms with stalls at the end of the hall.

 

She ended up at a very large state school that I opted to tour, in a small program (which is what dh and I wanted). It's not close enough for me to just run up for a surprise dinner, but I think it's been a pretty good fit.  She's done extremely well in her classes and made a great transition to life at college--in a very nice dorm with a private bathroom.  ;)

 

[katilac]

You guys are motivating me; I scheduled 2 this month for my sophomore! 8th grade sis will tag along. 

 

1 is local, 1 is semi-local, about an hour and a half drive. We should be able to visit at least one more local this semester, probably two, which will be all of the local possibilities. 

 

This kid can spend 2 hours deciding how to spend $10 at Claire's 10 for 10 sale, so I figure we better allow some time. 

 

[Jenny in Florida]

My son has found the visits very helpful, but only when they include some kind of meaningful interaction with the college.

 

For example, we were heading to south Florida several months ago, and I wanted him to include visits to at least a couple of campuses that were on his very preliminary list and that I knew we would be passing close to on the drive. (At that point, we were still considering this his junior year.) He wasn't enthused initially about doing the visits, but after some time online looking at all of the schools we'd be passing, he chose four. He was able to schedule an official visit with tour at only one of the four. The other three, we planned to stop by, check in at admissions or the info desk and wander on our own.

 

He was basically unimpressed with the three campuses at which we did the self-guided thing. The one school at which he had set up an official visit rolled out a red carpet for him. Here did a tour, met with an admissions counselor, had lunch in the dining hall, browsed in the bookstore, took a dance class and met with the head of the dance department. That was the one school about which he came home feeling positive.

 

But, within a few weeks, the feeling wore off as he did more research. He ended up not applying to the school at all.

 

On the other side of the coin are a few schools that looked on paper/online as though they would be great options for him. He applied to all of them and has been already been accepted to all but one. We recently did a trip to the NYC area so that he could visit and audition for programs at four of these. He set up official visits, including a couple of auditions, campus tours, meetings with counselors and department heads, an interview with the one school's honors program and opportunities to either observe or participate in classes. We also made it a point to eat in the dining hall of each school.

 

As a result of that trip, he's opted not to continue with the application process at the one school to which he hasn't received official acceptance. Observing a dance class and meeting with the dance department head made it clear to him that the program wouldn't be a good fit. He also lost some enthusiasm for two of the schools, especially one that had been on his "if-they-accept-me-and-the-finances-work-out-I'm-probably-going-there" list. And one of the schools climbed a few places after he had a chance to speak with the performing arts recruiter and feel the campus vibe.

 

The funny thing is that one of the current front-runners is one of the schools he felt blah about after that very first trip. I talked him into keeping it on his list, because it met a lot of his criteria. He applied and was accepted, and I prodded him until he set up a visit and audition for the musical theatre program. He showed no signs of enthusiasm on the drive there. I reminded him that, since he'd already been accepted and this campus was relatively close to home, it couldn't hurt to go through with the visit. It is also, because of the location, the only school my husband was going to be able to go with us to visit, and we all wanted him to have a chance to participate in the process. So, my son dutifully prepped for the audition, and off we went.

 

During that day, we attended presentations about the honors program, the music program and the musical theatre program. We did a campus tour. My son had a chance to chat with the heads of the dance and theatre program, as well as the head of the honors program. He hung out and talked with a few current students and the other potentials auditioning that day. He went through the audition process. And we had dinner in the dining hall before heading for home.

 

By the time we pulled into the driveway, this school was on his "I-really-hope-I-get-into-the-program" list. When he was notified a couple of weeks later that he had been accepted, there was great rejoicing. And, over the weeks since that visit, it has become the school against which others are measured. I never would have anticipated that based on our first visit.

 

I think, with each visit we did, we got better at knowing what he wanted to know and what he needed to see in order to get a good feel for each campus. For example, food is a big issue for this kid. He's a dancer and a lifelong vegan, meaning he's hungry all the time and not always easy to feed. We've learned that every college website says they can accommodate special diets, but actually eating in the dining hall often tells a different story. One school about which we had very little information and from which we expected very little turned out to have a lovely, welcoming dining hall where my son found multiple good options. At another campus, we opted not to even bother trying to eat a meal there after meeting with the dining hall supervisor.

 

So, yes, I think visits are extremely valuable, if you do them right.

[Kareni]

... I never would have anticipated that based on our first visit.

 

 

My daughter also had a less than favorable impression on a first visit (which included meeting with a professor, attending a class, and staying in a dorm) that was reversed based on a subsequent visit.  After the first visit, she came home saying that she'd never attend that college.  This was due in large part to her negative impression of her host and the host's friends.  We had a lot of discussions about the fact that there are many different kinds of students at a college and that was one likely to find like minded individuals given time and effort.

 

She too kept that college on the list because it was in-state and seemed financially doable.  After a subsequent visit to an accepted student event (also my husband's first chance to take part in the college application process), my daughter changed her mind and it ultimately became her second choice college.

 

So, yes, visits were very important in my daughter's case.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Jane in NC]

On a related note...my son's college did not impress him terribly when he visited.  He did not dislike it; it just did not make him get up and dance.  What was interesting though was that subsequent visits to other colleges positioned those schools lower than the LAC he attends.  He seemed to undergo a change in perception, thought process, who knows.

 

Having taught many first year college students, I do know that initial expectations change--which is why so many students jump majors or even colleges.

 

 

[creekland]

On a related note...my son's college did not impress him terribly when he visited.  He did not dislike it; it just did not make him get up and dance.  What was interesting though was that subsequent visits to other colleges positioned those schools lower than the LAC he attends.  He seemed to undergo a change in perception, thought process, who knows.

 

 

Youngest was this way too.  We visited Eckerd first and he was so-so about it.  However, after visiting the other three, he positioned all those lower.  Now we're going back in April and he has a whole different mindset about looking at the place.  Hopefully the visit will be a good one!

 

[Mom22ns]

College visits were very helpful for ds. He really had no idea what he was looking for in a college except for his major. We went to three colleges that had that major. One was a relatively small state U, one large state U and one very small LAC. He came away from the LAC feeling like he belonged. Both of the other two had programs that could work. He liked the smaller one better for size, but the larger one better for location. The faculty at both were ok, but no one that really connected with him or inspired him. The professor we met with at the LAC had ds wrapped around his little finger. Ds is quiet, but the prof drew him out and they had a very good conversation. The dorms, the dining hall, the administration, everyone and everything we did there was spot on. 

 

Ds is now strongly targeting that LAC. We've been in touch multiple times. We know how his current University credits will transfer, what CLEP and APs they'll take and how they will apply them, and what he needs to do to maximize his scholarship potential. There is always the chance that something could fall through, but the visit definitely made the sale. It really made ds become invested in the idea of college.

 

Best of luck on your visits!

[Trilliums]

We were planning on visits during spring break but unexpected travel plans came up for my husband, so they have been put on the back burner.  We did, however, visit with the undergrad adviser of our local state university.  This was useful for DS as he decides what classes to take at the university next year (senior of high school).

 

Thanks all for the comments on the process for your students as it gives us much 'food for thought'.  :)