Math in Focus Singapore Approach

[Walking-Iris]

Talk to me.

 

The pros, the cons, experiences with it.

 

I'm mainly interested in the higher grades...5th grade and the newer 6th-8th that they call Course 1 and so on. 

 

Any thoughts on K-4th welcome as well.

 

I'm thinking about a switch in math presentation. My oldest just may strangle me if we do another year of Saxon. (or even finish out this year and summer with it). This is our second year using Saxon as a spine.

 

FWIW I think Saxon does a great job getting the math done. I don't necessarily have an issue with the book. But my kid needs a bit more color, a bit more conceptual, and a bit less reading. (Although his reading ability is great, he hates the Saxon text.)

 

He really enjoyed the Liping Ma workbook Knowing Mathematics that he worked in this past summer, so he is familiar with using bar models. He's also been through the Miquon program, so again I don't think the switch will throw him off.

 

Reviews?

 

 

[ondreeuh]

I tried to jump into MiF 5 for a child who was weak in problem solving, and it didn't go well. Word problems are the meat of the program - every chapter includes a lesson that is just page after page of word problems, and a lot of them require significant reasoning out and multiple steps. Maybe get just the workbook at a review level for your child and practice doing the word problems this summer before you make a final decision. It would be a HUGE change from Saxon.

 

My younger son is a) starting from scratch and B) a faster learner, and he has done extremely well with grade 1 in kindergarten. It feels hard for the grade, honestly. At the end of 1st they are adding and subtracting numbers within a hundred with regrouping. The way they teach it does really focus on the conceptual understanding of place value. We are constantly making 10s, breaking up 10s, moving things around, and he can do it all in his head with ease. He has already figured out multiplication from all the games and work with manipulatives before we've done that chapter, so even though it is introduced early, I think it is appropriate.

 

The presentation is top-notch. These textbooks were not written with a tight budget in mind - the layout is clean with lots of white space, and tons of photos of manipulatives being used to show the concepts. Plenty of instruction & illustration is in the book - you can very easily see what is being done and copy it with actual manipulatives. Often we read the textbook together on the couch before going to the table. I am a picture-learner more than a text-learner, so I LOVE being able to glance at the page and immediately see what we are doing. There are also color images of real children "thinking" about the math which really comes across well to my student.

 

It is a mastery program, and each chapter is topical. The number sense & operations chapters build on each other, but the measurement, shapes, time/calendar, and money chapters are standalone. Every 2-3 chapters there is a review over the past set (so like there is a review at the end of chapter 15 that only covers chapters 14 & 15, There is a mid-year review and an end-of-year review. There is no spiral review at all. I consider this a weakness, so I add in review by way of Horizons math which is much weaker on place value & operations but stronger in clock, geometry, fractions, and money. Horizons pushes a number-line approach so I often write over that with sharpie, and we solve by regrouping.

 

The pacing is different than other programs. There aren't daily lessons with textbook and practice pages each day. Some days you will just work with manipulatives or play a game to teach a concept. Other days you will do three out of the 8 workbook pages for that lesson. So a lesson can take 1-4 days to finish, depending on how you break it up (we just stop when fatigue starts to show, and pick up where we left off the next session). We tend to only use MiF about 3 days a week. We do Horizons the other days, often picking problems from a few lessons. Since he has learned the clock, money, geometry, etc. in Horizons we are testing out of those chapters in MiF. It works for us.

 

I am glad I am starting my youngest at the beginning, because it really does start with mental math strategies that carry over the next year. I haven't looked closely at grade 2 to see if it assumes grade 1 skills or reteaches. I am truly amazed at how solid he is in the concepts. I haven't done any facts drill yet because MiF encourages strategies for mental math and I want him to stick with that for a while. Adding doubles, doubles +1. making 10s and subtracting from 10s are all practiced through the year.

[Walking-Iris]

Thanks for that. Let me clarify that my ds isn't weak in math. He's doing well with Saxon. It's just that he's bored to tears with the actual book. I always thought a spiral program was what he needed, but lately it seems that it bothers him to have to make the sudden jumps Saxon asks him to make. Jumping from operations, to fractions, to a number line problem, to geometry, to measurement, to a clock within the same lesson. 

 

I think if he was able to stay with one concept longer and review those that are needing more review, he may feel less stressed about math. Especially when learning something new.

 

He needs more color, more pictures and visuals, more hands on activities, less problems, less writing the problems out, less reading a math text book. 

 

Thanks for the review of the younger grades. My youngest is doing well with MM and Miquon, but it's good to know that MIF is a good program too. 

 

It seems so obvious in an odd way...a CC public text based on Singapore methods, distributed by Saxon Homeschool. :)

 

 

[lots of little ducklings]

I can only speak to using MIF K and 1, but we (my dcs and I) love it.

 

I used Saxon K with my oldest, and while I wouldn't judge a whole curriculum based on its K text, the spiraling bored *me* to tears. DS enjoyed it, but it didn't challenge him at all. MIF 1 OTOH has challenged him but he begs for it. The color, the clean layout, the manipulatives, the concept mastery... Just all seems to inspire him somehow. We supplement with drill, but only after a concept has been mastered. MIF K has been a hit with my DD as well (whose learning style differs significantly from her brother's), and compared to Saxon K I feel she's getting a much better foundation in arithmetic.

 

Very happy we switched. :-)

[redsquirrel]

I am just curious as to why you specifically want MIF instead of plain old Singapore? I have used SM and I bought a MIF teacher's book just to see what it looked like. I was wondering if MIF would be a bit easier on me, lol. I found it busy, but that is just me. I have already gone through SM 1-6 with one kid and am now halfway through with a second so I am used to the look and presentation of SM.

 

I will say that there is not much reading of words in a SM math text. Well, except the word problems, but they don't seem excessive to me.

[mommymilkies]

I have used Singapore math for years.  MiF is much easier to implement, IMHO.  It is Singapore but with less books to go between and more straightforward explanations.  It's chunked a little more than SM, but not spiral like Saxon (which my son uses).  We are using grade 1 and 3 right now and really love it.  I am very glad we switched.  It takes less time than using the full SM program, but with the same outcome.  :)

[Walking-Iris]

I am just curious as to why you specifically want MIF instead of plain old Singapore? I have used SM and I bought a MIF teacher's book just to see what it looked like. I was wondering if MIF would be a bit easier on me, lol. I found it busy, but that is just me. I have already gone through SM 1-6 with one kid and am now halfway through with a second so I am used to the look and presentation of SM.

 

I will say that there is not much reading of words in a SM math text. Well, except the word problems, but they don't seem excessive to me.

 

I like the ideas behind the Singapore way of doing math, but I don't like the actual Singapore math books (primary, standards etc).

 

I've looked at them again and again over the years, and the layout, the HIGs, etc just always turned me off. I love Miquon. Which is my go to for the younger grades. I like to do miquon plus something else. Math Mammoth is fitting our needs this year with my 6 year old. I switched to using Saxon after Miquon, and my oldest liked it. He had no troubles because miquon gave him a strong foundation. Except for a few new concepts, 54 was easy for him. 

 

65 has been harder. Math has been a struggle to get through. He's able to do it, and do well. But I worry he's starting to dread math, and I've talked with him, and I know it's the Saxon book that is bothering him. It's just not a fun thing to have to do each day. I'm glad he's learning and able to complete a lesson. But I don't want him merely able to do math, I'd like him to enjoy it and find it interesting. 

 

I started researching other Singapore programs, ( I already know I don't like primary or standards) because of how engaged he was doing Liping Ma this summer. I wanted something similar but a full program.

 

That led me to math in focus. I ordered him some books. He's excited that he only has to keep up with Saxon until they arrive and then we're going to try out something brand new. No harm, if it's a bust he can still keep up with math in his Saxon text. But I have to find something else for this kid. 

[plumshadow]

Thank you for that link, It was exactly what I was looking for. I'm still not sure which Singapore avenue I want to take but at least I've finally got to really see their approach.

[Walking-Iris]

:lurk5:

 

We have done 1a through 3b (and I plan to continue).  I used PM up until 5B with my older son.  So I can really only offer my experiences in the earlier grades for MIF.  I like MIF better than PM.  I think it breaks things down even more.  It also contains a lot more word problems and challenge problems than PM alone. 

 

If you go here:  http://forms.hmhco.com/virtualsampling/vs-registration.php?code=mathinfocus

 

you can sign up to see large samples of their books (just in case you did not know this already). 

 

 I found that link after mommiemilkies told me it was out there. Seems to me it would be easy to just look over the pages in the teacher's guides, if needed, online.  Like most curricula the teacher's guide is the more expensive part. 

 

I was able to find quite a few of the student texts (various grades---younger more so than older grades) used on amazon for just 5-6 dollars. It seemed that the actual workbooks were cheaper to get new at rainbow resource. 

 

So that helps drive down cost a bit. The online teacher guide and used books.

 

So Unicorn?---you really like the earlier grades then? 

[Chelli]

I didn't respond to your first post because I haven't made it that high in MIF yet. We are working in 3B right now.

 

I've never used Singapore Primary or Standards. I bought Standards to use with dd10 for first grade, but I couldn't make heads nor tails of it. It was SO different to how I was taught math. I immediately sold Standards and tried various other things until stumbling upon MIF, thanks to these boards. It works beautifully for us. I understand how to teach the math just from using the student textbook. My dd loves the colorfulness of the book and all the writing space for the worksheet problems. It is a really solid program, IMO.

 

My review of MIF: The Plans of Mice and Math

 

It is very reassuring also to hear others who have used Primary and Standards that now use MIF to say that MIF is definitely on par with these other programs. I always buy textbooks used from Amazon and workbooks new from Rainbow Resource. It is not a very expensive math program doing it that way. If you do decide to use MIF for 6-8, please update about it. I wasn't sure if I wanted to go that route for 6-8 or jump ship to something else so I'd love to hear how it works for you. 

[Walking-Iris]

Nice review of the early grades Chelli. I don't want to derail my thread too much from  thinking about the higher grades, but do you use C-rods with MIF?

 

I mentioned how much I love using Miquon plus something else. My ds did Essential Math as a Kinder and the number bonds bothered him UNTIL we built those bonds with the c-rods. 

 

I love love love math manipulatives, and I have a ton of them. What hands on math tools do you find work well with MIF? 

 

I'm thinking about 2nd grade too. ;)

[Chelli]

Nice review of the early grades Chelli. I don't want to derail my thread too much from  thinking about the higher grades, but do you use C-rods with MIF?

 

I mentioned how much I love using Miquon plus something else. My ds did Essential Math as a Kinder and the number bonds bothered him UNTIL we built those bonds with the c-rods. 

 

I love love love math manipulatives, and I have a ton of them. What hands on math tools do you find work well with MIF? 

 

I'm thinking about 2nd grade too. ;)

 

Well.....I'm a lover of the C-rod. I didn't really discover them until Chipette was older so I've been using them a LOT with Magpie. We used a combination of Singapore Essentials, Miquon Orange, and Education Unboxed for Kindergarten. Now in first grade we are using MIF, MEP, and Miquon. It sounds like a lot, but the lessons in MIF are short enough that we do MIF and MEP every day and use Miquon and Life of Fred on Monday for fun. I can honestly say that Magpie's number sense is well ahead of where Chipette's was at this age. I firmly believe that it is because of the C-rods and all the different approaches we use with them.

 

With MIF we use C-rods and Unifix cubes. That's really all right now. The pictures in the MIF book show the kids using Unifix cubes for most of the problems, but Magpie is more familiar with C-rods so we use those for most problems. Sometimes we use the Unifix cubes just for a change of pace or if we want to actually move the blocks and reattach them to another group.

 

HTH.

[mom2vikha]

Do we need enrichment books (like IP or CWP) with MIF or just the textbook and workbook will do? We use MM but like the looks of MIF. With MM we use CWP and IP. If we start using MIF, should we still use IP and CWP? Also my dd is started 4a with MM, can she switch to MIF 4a? contents look almost the same :)

[umsami]

We switched this year for 4th grade.  Honestly, it was hard because the bar models were so foreign.  While I could figure out the problems using algebra, I couldn't always figure out how to teach them to my son.  The Teacher's Instruction Guide did not always help.

 

Switched back to Math Mammoth, and life is much easier. :)  I don't think we're losing anything either.

[mom2vikha]

do you supplement Math Mammoth? I am tired of switching between MM,IP,CWP.

[melmichigan]

Fate has showed me she's a fickle thing.  I own all of SM from oldest DS.  My twins who struggled immensely with SM are doing great with MiF 4B.   :willy_nilly: (I'm finding the reteach and transition suggestions immensely helpful with the one who struggles the most.)  I bought the TE off of amazon.  The regular price is really yucky, many of the suppliers are now carrying an answer key.

[mom2vikha]

To Umsami :)

[mom2vikha]

That question about MIF was in my mind though :hurray:! Thanks for reading my mind ! LOL

[Carrousel]

We use sm standards. I would like to use less books (currently use text, workbook, test, and ip, adding in Cwp over summer). Is mif Singapore in less books?

[Chelli]

We use sm standards. I would like to use less books (currently use text, workbook, test, and ip, adding in Cwp over summer). Is mif Singapore in less books?

Yes, it is a hardback, full color, student textbook and a black-and-white workbook. One set for each semester.

[CAtoVA]

I used Singapore Standards for DS for K-3 and we both loved it. After four years, DS was strong in mental math, place value, etc. Now he is in 4th grade in a private school that uses MIF. The teacher is taking the book and teaching it like a typical American math program—memorizing algorithms, little physical use of actual manipulatives, little focus on conceptual understanding, etc. DS is losing his ability to mentally calculate and is basically just getting through each topic with little retention. When a topic is over it is rarely revisited. The word problems are definitely far more challenging than in Standards. They typically are multi-step and require  a bar model approach if you do not want to use algebra to solve them. At home I have been supplementing and doing triage to salvage the year.

 

I like MIF a lot however, for its rigor, and have been looking at it for DD #1 (age 5 1/2). Currently we are doing Singapore Standards 1A because I already had the textbook from DS. I am supplementing with some Mammoth Math and also Singapore Visual Math (hard to find because it's out of print). I just think a math curriculum is only as good as the teacher. I totally understand how to teach a program like Singapore ( an Asian approach) and am committed to it and that will make the difference in whether a student gets the benefits out of the approach or not.

[shawthorne44]

What about the K books, Singapore has two, Essentials and Early Birds.  Is MIF better than both of those?

[CAtoVA]

I used both Essentials and Early Bird with DS and DD #1 for K and liked them. I have not used MIF K. For K level, I think the originals do the job well.

[Chelli]

What about the K books, Singapore has two, Essentials and Early Birds. Is MIF better than both of those?

I didn't use MIF for K because the teacher books are required at that age which makes it too expensive for me. I used Singapore Essentials and a couple of other programs mixed in. Dd6 had no trouble transitioning to MIF for first grade.

[Walking-Iris]

Okay I got the two MIF grade 5 workbooks today. (That was seriously fast RR. Way to go!) And.....it looks tough. I'm holding off on my opinion until the textbook arrives. 

 

Already I can see that the word problems are going to need a lot of different steps and discussion. 

 

I think it will be good to have a workbook to write in, and less problems to complete. But unless I'm not seeing it, there doesn't seem to be a lot of "practical" math in them....time, measurement, consumer math, money. 

 

My ds likes the look of them though. Shiny, new. We'll see when the text book gets here and how difficult the math is. A lot of it looks like what he's covered in Saxon already, but slightly more difficult. More geometry, more prealgebra. The word problems seem a bit overly complicated. My dh read through some of them, and looked at me like I was nuts. I may just ask him to continue with Saxon, maybe not daily, and work in MIF a little bit. See if he can do it. 

 

We will soon see.  :ohmy:

[Chelli]

Okay I got the two MIF grade 5 workbooks today. (That was seriously fast RR. Way to go!) And.....it looks tough. I'm holding off on my opinion until the textbook arrives. 

 

Already I can see that the word problems are going to need a lot of different steps and discussion. 

 

I think it will be good to have a workbook to write in, and less problems to complete. But unless I'm not seeing it, there doesn't seem to be a lot of "practical" math in them....time, measurement, consumer math, money. 

 

My ds likes the look of them though. Shiny, new. We'll see when the text book gets here and how difficult the math is. A lot of it looks like what he's covered in Saxon already, but slightly more difficult. More geometry, more prealgebra. The word problems seem a bit overly complicated. My dh read through some of them, and looked at me like I was nuts. I may just ask him to continue with Saxon, maybe not daily, and work in MIF a little bit. See if he can do it. 

 

We will soon see.  :ohmy:

 

I've got the MIF 4A and 4B books here. They do not "technically" cover any of the practical math stuff either, but those topics are revisited via the word problems in the program.

 

I'm assuming that MIF believes after three years, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd grades, of covering time, measurement, and money that those things can be reviewed via the higher math concepts used in 4th grade and above. 

 

I actually hadn't noticed that about the grade 4 books until you mentioned it about the grade 5 books. I know that 3B covers these topics A LOT! In fact the entire 3B book is money, measurement, time, and geometry in various forms.

 

ETA: My dd10 picks up money, time, measurement, etc. with practically no instruction and has from the beginning so I'm glad to know that it ends after 3B. We fly through those chapters usually just skipping straight to the chapter test with minimal instruction and moving on. 

As for the word problems, those are actually one of my favorite parts of MIF. They make sure you know what to do with the math you've learned. YMMV. 

[cintinative]

I am late to the party but I have used MIF 1A, 1B, 2A and now 2B and like the program very much. I intend to continue through the higher levels but am wondering if anyone has experience with the next level up (is it course 1)?

[mommymilkies]

Singapore and MiF are mastery based.  So you will see measurement more heavily in certain years, but not in others.  It's not like Saxon where you hit it every day/every other day.  Some people resolve this by getting a workbook a year below the kid's working level and having them do a page from it every once in awhile as review, or saving one page from each section to do another week.  People do that with MM a lot, too.  For us, it hasn't been an issue. 

 

I will say after about grade ~5 math in most programs, there's very little new work.  It's mostly just going deeper and making sure the kid has it down before Algebra. 

[Walking-Iris]

I've decided to fix that by looking into some of the consumer math programs that WTM recommends. He's only 11 and I'm not comfortable with the idea of letting real world math slide in favor of deeper algebraic type math just yet.

 

I've looked at a few of the real world problems in MIF...when's the last time someone used 4/9 quart of milk in a recipe? LOL I can see how teasing out the answers to these problems will help with math.... and fractions!! which has always been my ds's personal bugaboo. (We have some Key To books for that), but I'd like to continue with the "real" real world instruction as well. 

 

A lot of people cover this by just living life with their kiddo, but my ds has Asperger's and needs some of this real world stuff presented again and again.

 

I still have Saxon here, and we'll start playing around with MIF when the textbook gets here. I'll hold off on my opinion until we have done enough of it to really see how it works for him. 

 

 

[ondreeuh]

Like I said, we started in 5A and it was such a big jump from what we'd done before (Saxon 54 and CLE 5). The word problems required multiple steps with lots of bar diagrams. Here was my post to WTM about it.

 

The scope & sequence is in line with other 5th/6th grade math programs, but the depth and application go way beyond, IMO. It was too much for my kid at that time - and it's not that he's particularly weak in math either. He does have a significant deficit in working memory, but he also had not be asked to do anything close to that level in Saxon and CLE.

[Walking-Iris]

I bought it. I'll try it. Or at least I have to make him like Saxon. He's getting to an age where math program switches aren't going to be an option. 

 

Sort of feeling lost now about math. Sigh. Never really felt that before. 

 

[tjdan]

Switched from using Singapore PM all the way through 4b, now most of the way through MIF level 5, and very happy we switched.  Same approach, just a little more stepped through, and my son likes all the extra space in the workbook.  Still looking for someone who's used Course 1-3???? Anyone???? Can't decide whether to switch back to Singapore for DM or to keep going with MIF.  Not interested in Aops, DS loves Singapore way of doing math. Anyone who's used Course 1,2,3, please say something!!

[Walking-Iris]

Switched from using Singapore PM all the way through 4b, now most of the way through MIF level 5, and very happy we switched.  Same approach, just a little more stepped through, and my son likes all the extra space in the workbook.  Still looking for someone who's used Course 1-3???? Anyone???? Can't decide whether to switch back to Singapore for DM or to keep going with MIF.  Not interested in Aops, DS loves Singapore way of doing math. Anyone who's used Course 1,2,3, please say something!!

 

Aren't the Courses (for 6th-8th) relatively new? 

 

I'm curious too.

[tjdan]

Yes, they are- I was hoping to find someone who's used them and can give a comment. Anyone???

[mommymilkies]

I've decided to fix that by looking into some of the consumer math programs that WTM recommends. He's only 11 and I'm not comfortable with the idea of letting real world math slide in favor of deeper algebraic type math just yet.

 

Simply Charlotte Mason Business Math is really good. 

[Walking-Iris]

Simply Charlotte Mason Business Math is really good. 

 

You've mentioned SCM stuff in the past. I have to admit I've only glanced at that website. Isn't the Pet Shop Math from that site as well? Something to look at. 

 

Easy to use in a secular fashion? As a summer project? I was hoping to do a bit of Hands On Equations as a summer math project. But I think MIF will be our summer work...we'll see. 

 

We got the text book in the mail yesterday. I'm looking through the teacher guide online to get some ideas for it's use and we plan to jump into the first lessons today. Getting our feet wet with how it works. 

 

I've told him that I want to strike a deal for the rest of spring and summer that he continue to work in his Saxon a few times, just in case the MIF Singapore gets frustrating, we can still be moving along in that math program. 

 

I can tell that MIF will need my constant sitting by him and working it out to get him into the feel of using it. He could do Saxon on his own. I'm reluctant to give up the free time it gave me to have him doing a math assignment on his own. 

[mommymilkies]

Yes-there are options like Pet Store, Sports store, etc.  And that math set is secular enough for me. SCM is not secular in and of itself, though. I would say it easily could be a summer project.