"Bragging"

[ailysh]

I don't post very often on here, but I do read things quite a lot. I have a daughter who is three who has been reading since she was 18 mos. And by reading, I mean sounding out words that she has never seen. Just the other day at church, her Sunday school teacher told me she read the word "preparation."

 

I was just reading a thread here on academics in k where two separate people mentioned people "bragging" about their early readers. I find that very frustrating, as I'm sure does anybody who has a child reading early. Why is it bragging to talk about what they are doing? If somebody says their child plays outside all day long, nobody accuses them of bragging. If somebody says their kid loves legos and plays with them all day long, and builds buildings and things, is that bragging? No, it is just what they love. That's how parents with early readers feel. We don't do anything to push them, usually. I certainly don't, anyway. We just facilitate what they already love to do. It just makes it harder to facilitate that love when we go on a message board, say asking for book recommendations, and we get this attitude about bragging. Or, "just play outside," which is another issue. Not all the time, but often enough for me that I frequently feel awkward mentioning it in real life. I'm usually too shy to post much on here. I was raised not to brag, and I don't do it. It isn't bragging to accurately portray where your children are developmentally.

 

Can we just show a little support, and not automatically throw out words like bragging that have such negative connotations? Sorry to rant.

[SKL]

It's a fine line to walk.  Most parents want to believe their kids are bright.  If your kid is reading and their kid doesn't even recognize one single letter, hey are going to question whether their kid or their parenting isn't so great after all.  You don't want to be the person who makes people question their kids or their parenting.  :)

 

It's the same with anything.  Both of my kids did some things early, and some things late-ish.  When I talk to people with kids, I usually talk about the areas where my kids were late bloomers, because it makes other parents feel sympathetic instead of competitive.  Maybe it shouldn't be like that, but I can't control how other people's minds work.  (And to be honest - I can be guilty of this too.)

 

If I want to tell people that my 3yo likes to read, I'll say something like "she loves books / she always has her nose in a book."  I won't get into the details such as "she read 'preparation'" unless the other mom starts telling me something really wow about her kid first.  :)

 

Head on over to the accelerated board if you are bursting to tell something that might be read as a "brag."  Chances are, you will get a different reaction there because most of us have been in your position many times.

[Laura Corin]

SKL has some good advice.  I always talked in terms of what my children liked to do, rather than what level they were working at.  Otherwise people get worried that their children are not keeping up, and that's not a happy feeling.  It also makes your child's social interaction easier if they hear you talk in those terms.  Whenever Calvin was surprised that one of his friends couldn't do what he could do, I would say something like, 'I was talking to his mum, and she says he really likes flying kites.'

 

There was one incident, however, that allowed me humility and triumph all in one go.

 

Calvin was a very late walker; the leader of our little baby group had a daughter who walked at nine months.  Every week, she would turn with a fixed, sweet smile to me and say, 'And is [Calvin] walking yet?'  Each week, I would say, 'Oh no.  He'll walk in his own good time.

 

Then one week, Calvin crawled across her sitting-room rug, pulled himself upright, looked at the logo on the television and spelled out, 'S-O-N-Y' in a beautiful, clear voice.  I understood how it feels when your child is way behind (as Calvin was with walking) and - unintentionally - I put the other woman in that place for a moment.

 

L

[ailysh]

Thanks for your calm and considered response. :001_smile:  I guess I am feeling a little pissy today. I'm not really bursting to tell anybody about my daughter's accomplishments, but I do get questions a lot about what she is doing in school as I am very open about the fact that I intend to homeschool her. The reason I mentioned what she was reading was that, in the other post, one of the people talking about bragging said something about maybe they can barely sound out c-a-t and the parents call it reading.

 

We do want to all believe our children are bright, but I personally believe that all children are bright in their own ways. There is no way my younger daughter will be reading early, but she has her own gifts. You know? In a perfect world we could celebrate our children's successes in a neutral way without feeling like we are bragging, without other people feeling they aren't measuring up, and without a spirit of competition that causes us to focus more on their weaknesses in order to compensate in other people's eyes for their strengths.

[Korrale]

It really is a fine line. I have a little bibliophile. In the last few hours alone he has read through over 40 little golden books. And other books. I don't consider it bragging. I consider it fact. I consider it a challenge to meet his voracious appetite for books. He is now enjoying a book on a kindle app.

 

But I know that people feel threatened. A lot more than not. And it makes me sad that there is a competition in the first place. I have many friends who tell me my son is a genius, I disagree. And I turn the subject and point out that kids all have strengths and weaknesses. My son doesn't sing songs in full like many of my friends children. He isn't bilingual like a few of the children I know.

[Arcadia]

The reason I mentioned what she was reading was that, in the other post, one of the people talking about bragging said something about maybe they can barely sound out c-a-t and the parents call it reading.

 

 

I think it is because people use the word reading in a broad way.  Some people count as reading if a child can sound out all the words.  Then there is reading with all the intonations/emotions and correct pause at the commas and periods which my older boy's teacher expects from kindergarteners.  Lastly there is also reading with full comprehension.  Both my kids actually had three scores in kindergarten for the three "categories" of reading (phonics, reading, comprehension). 

 

As for bragging, there is cultural difference even if it is subtle.  I can brag all I want to my parents and in-laws about my kids, that's what they are for :) There is also the tone of voice when talking what kids are up to in conversation.  Some people have that bragging tone all the time regardless of what they are talking about while some people just sound excited and not like they are bragging.

[sunnyday]

Thanks for your calm and considered response. :001_smile:  I guess I am feeling a little pissy today. I'm not really bursting to tell anybody about my daughter's accomplishments, but I do get questions a lot about what she is doing in school as I am very open about the fact that I intend to homeschool her. The reason I mentioned what she was reading was that, in the other post, one of the people talking about bragging said something about maybe they can barely sound out c-a-t and the parents call it reading.

 

We do want to all believe our children are bright, but I personally believe that all children are bright in their own ways. There is no way my younger daughter will be reading early, but she has her own gifts. You know? In a perfect world we could celebrate our children's successes in a neutral way without feeling like we are bragging, without other people feeling they aren't measuring up, and without a spirit of competition that causes us to focus more on their weaknesses in order to compensate in other people's eyes for their strengths.

 

I think this goes to show that this is a very sensitive area for us all. I was the one who mentioned sounding out cat, and I have an early reader. I wasn't denigrating all parents who claim to have early readers.

 

I was remembering back when I was in an online "due date club" that turned into a "birth month club" for kids all within about a month of age. From mothers who "felt kicking" at 9 weeks of pregnancy, to children who were reported to sit at 3 months and use sign language at 6 months and ride a bicycle at 18 months. Some of these were exaggerations, or a difference in definition. Some of them were genuinely early milestones. Which were which? I soon realized that it doesn't matter. What matters is that the parents who are sharing these things are *happy* and *proud* and sharing something positive. It's not a put-down on anyone else. Give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what they're seeing, because even if they're mistaken, it makes no difference to YOU and YOUR LIFE and YOUR KID. *cue Frozen soundtrack* Let it go...let it go!

 

The OP that I responded to was feeling badly because she heard reports that kids were reading before kindergarten (and worried about her own child's insufficient academic preparation) but also was feeling skeptical because maybe those parents were mistaken about their definition of "reading". I've had the later reader and been skeptical about the earlier ones. I've had the early reader and struggled with those feelings of mild shame when talking about it. But in the end you celebrate other people's kids with their parents who are proud of them, and you celebrate your kids because you're always proud of them (right?) and it's all cool.

[ailysh]

Thanks for clarifying, sunnyday. I would LOVE if it could be the way you describe in the end. That's what I keep trying for. :-)

[Kerileanne99]

I don't post very often on here, but I do read things quite a lot. I have a daughter who is three who has been reading since she was 18 mos. And by reading, I mean sounding out words that she has never seen. Just the other day at church, her Sunday school teacher told me she read the word "preparation."

 

I was just reading a thread here on academics in k where two separate people mentioned people "bragging" about their early readers. I find that very frustrating, as I'm sure does anybody who has a child reading early. Why is it bragging to talk about what they are doing? If somebody says their child plays outside all day long, nobody accuses them of bragging. If somebody says their kid loves legos and plays with them all day long, and builds buildings and things, is that bragging? No, it is just what they love. That's how parents with early readers feel. We don't do anything to push them, usually. I certainly don't, anyway. We just facilitate what they already love to do. It just makes it harder to facilitate that love when we go on a message board, say asking for book recommendations, and we get this attitude about bragging. Or, "just play outside," which is another issue. Not all the time, but often enough for me that I frequently feel awkward mentioning it in real life. I'm usually too shy to post much on here. I was raised not to brag, and I don't do it. It isn't bragging to accurately portray where your children are developmentally.

 

Can we just show a little support, and not automatically throw out words like bragging that have such negative connotations? Sorry to rant.

Just to preface, I also read your secon post but cannot seem to multiquote on my phone or IPad:(

 

This is a very tough subject for me as I feel like I can't even join in everyday mom conversations about what their kids are up to. Yes, you can make VERY broad generalizations like, "yes, my kiddo always has her nose in a book", but as a previous poster said, this says basically nothing. Fine for some conversations. But I get really, really tired of being left out of those conversations because I know I cannot chime in with the more specific things they are talking about without hearing crickets.

Part of the problem is that I take my dd4 to a mostly non-academic preschool 2 days per week (6 hours) just so that she can run around and get messy. The other kids in the class are doing a sort of VERY laid-back letter-of-the week program. None of them are close to reading, fair enough....but I hate feeling like I have to sensor every.little.thing I say or amusing anecdote because I WILL be taken as bragging. Ask me how I know.

 

And another poster in another thread mentioned noticing in signatures that the programs kids accelerated are working on 'must be taking hours' kin of thing, as if the kid is accelerated so we must be having them slog away at the table for hours and hours. Definitely not picking, because I think that is probably a natural response. I assure you that is not the case for us at least, but I mention it because that is the other attitude I get if I manage to 'brag'...she must be that way because I force her to work long and hard. I actually have had people tell me out of the blue that if they 'made' their kid do the work their kid would be just as advanced...it ether feels like a slap at my 'bad' parenting style or a 'your kid is NOT smarter than mine, I just refuse to force the poor thing to work so hard at a age-inappropriate level!'

Either way...kids are kids are kids. Every.single.one is different.

I do NOT think any child not reading early is not intelligent, quite the opposite. I think all kids are capable of much more than we give them credit for...some are just on a different timeline. It would never occur to me to question their parenting, compare my child, or make defensive comments.

I wish I encountered more people willing to grant the same grace:)

[ailysh]

Just to preface, I also read your secon post but cannot seem to multiquote on my phone or IPad:(

 

This is a very tough subject for me as I feel like I can't even join in everyday mom conversations about what their kids are up to. Yes, you can make VERY broad generalizations like, "yes, my kiddo always has her nose in a book", but as a previous poster said, this says basically nothing. Fine for some conversations. But I get really, really tired of being left out of those conversations because I know I cannot chime in with the more specific things they are talking about without hearing crickets.

Part of the problem is that I take my dd4 to a mostly non-academic preschool 2 days per week (6 hours) just so that she can run around and get messy. The other kids in the class are doing a sort of VERY laid-back letter-of-the week program. None of them are close to reading, fair enough....but I hate feeling like I have to sensor every.little.thing I say or amusing anecdote because I WILL be taken as bragging. Ask me how I know.

 

And another poster in another thread mentioned noticing in signatures that the programs kids accelerated are working on 'must be taking hours' kin of thing, as if the kid is accelerated so we must be having them slog away at the table for hours and hours. Definitely not picking, because I think that is probably a natural response. I assure you that is not the case for us at least, but I mention it because that is the other attitude I get if I manage to 'brag'...she must be that way because I force her to work long and hard. I actually have had people tell me out of the blue that if they 'made' their kid do the work their kid would be just as advanced...it ether feels like a slap at my 'bad' parenting style or a 'your kid is NOT smarter than mine, I just refuse to force the poor thing to work so hard at a age-inappropriate level!'

Either way...kids are kids are kids. Every.single.one is different.

I do NOT think any child not reading early is not intelligent, quite the opposite. I think all kids are capable of much more than we give them credit for...some are just on a different timeline. It would never occur to me to question their parenting, compare my child, or make defensive comments.

I wish I encountered more people willing to grant the same grace:)

 

I hear you. That happens to me, too. Most of my conversations on what we are doing include some sort of disclaimer about how I am not making her work, what we do does not take very long, she would be doing it on her own and teaching herself wrong (letter formation, etc) if I didn't help her...she is just not content without a challenge. It is who she is. And one of the things I love about her. It isn't better or worse than anybody else, just different.

 

[Rosie_0801]

This is a very tough subject for me as I feel like I can't even join in everyday mom conversations about what their kids are up to. Yes, you can make VERY broad generalizations like, "yes, my kiddo always has her nose in a book", but as a previous poster said, this says basically nothing. Fine for some conversations. But I get really, really tired of being left out of those conversations because I know I cannot chime in with the more specific things they are talking about without hearing crickets.

 

 

I think everyone has this problem. If you want to look on the bright side, crickets are better than being shouted at. I've copped that more than once. Those people are no longer blessed with the privilege of my confidences. :p

[MistyMountain]

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[Rosie_0801]

If only children's health, intelligence, and work ethic could be directly improved by their mother's worrying about it! :D

[Korrale]

If I am really honest I will have to admit that I taught my son to read on my lap because it was easy and fun. Perhaps i am just lazy. I just don't think people know that it is even possible. I read so much stuff about how a child can't read until they are a certain age. Or how they NEED phonics from the get go.

I get more frustrated to hear that the only reason my son can read is because he is gifted. Uh no. He reads because I believed a toddler could read, so I taught him.

I keep things in my signature about what James does and his age because then I don't really have to say that he is accelerated. If people choose not to believe it. That is their issue. If people choose to think that I spend hours a day hot housing him that is their right to believe also. But I made the statement that we may seem like we do a lot, plowing through a large amount of work at a rapid pace. But in reality we do very little in a day these day. Or rather I do very little academics with him. On the other hand James spends several hours of his own free time each day reading through dozens of books. I am not going to stop him doing that.

[MistyMountain]

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[Korrale]

I did do early learning with my youngest as a toddler and she is very far from reading or doing advanced math. I know others have had success but I do start to worry when people say that all you need to do is spend a little bit of time with a toddler and to start early and they will be reading. It is nice that others can have success but it makes me a bit worried about her when there is probably no reason to be.

If this is true. And I don't doubt it. :) I don't think you have any reason to be concerned.

 

DD (9-06) 1st Grade going to a classical like charter school and supplementing at home

 

DS (10-08) AAR, Singapore 1A, Cuisenaire Rods and reading lots of books

 

DD (9-10) Counting, numbers and letter sounds

[Arcadia]

Honestly I do get a little worried when lots and lots of people start mentioning their really bright early readers or math whizzes and how it took no effort.

 

That does sound like bragging even if it is true. I don't see a need to mention and the "how it took no effort" does come across as either impolite or rubbing it in.

Hangout with the SN and/or 2E parents, you might feel less stressed.

 

 

. I know others have had success but I do start to worry when people say that all you need to do is spend a little bit of time with a toddler and to start early and they will be reading.

 

That sounds like people are being judgmental.  I heard similar stuff from busybodies because both my boys stand and walk very late. I could only stand after I was two years old so I just joke that late walking is genetic and the busybodies just leave it be after commenting a few times.  

 

My BIL insist we use "My Baby can read" program and actually loan us his set when my oldest was born.  We didn't use it.

[abba12]

I am with you on this one! My husband and I have higher IQs than average, no brag, just a simple fact, and I expected that would influence our kids as well. It did. I talk on here about my kiddos, and I talk about curriculum we are using, but I avoid mentioning the two in the same threads. That's because I am doing a full, and somewhat accelerated, K4 year with DD1 who only turned 3 this month. I will not be surprised at all if she is reading at least at a 1st grade level by end of year (Jan-nov) and if we haven't finished our K level math we are likely to be close to it. She is not vastly accelerated, no sounding out words at 18mo here, but she is obviously further along than her peers at church etc, and occasionally I get... I don't know, dirty looks I suppose from other parents when she does something like counting the corners of a shape spontaneously, while their child still isn't sure if it's a triangle or a square. I guess they assume I am drilling her for hours every day and forcing early academics on her when she needs to be outside playing. You'll notice I do not have my ages and details in my signature, and it's because I feel like, despite being a graduated homeschooler who never stopped being involved with education and is now doing a full workload with a 'gifted' child, I won't be taken seriously because people will assume that I am exaggerating and pushing my child and just one of these 'silly new mums who just need to relax and enjoy the little years because there's plenty of time for academics down the track'

 

The reality is, when we finally began 'doing school' last month she was so excited she was almost crying, and still gets near tears from joy while exclaiming "mummy make me sooooo happy, thank you mummy, thank you, I love you, Thank you for preschool, yay!!" each morning when she sees me get the folder down. I am the one having to back down after an hour because she will go all morning, while I still have a baby to tend to and am expecting again soon. 

 

It frustrates me that I can't talk about my kids achievements because someone else can't accept that different children develop differently. DD1 was a late talker and is still not terribly good at it despite having taken steps towards reading. She also has some areas she is very bad with. I suspect she has aspergers, (as I do also) by many things she does, and she is obviously as fact oriented as DH, since she struggles with anything that involves abstract concepts, even if her factual knowledge is there. That's why she is beginning to do basic equations formally and has been doing them informally for 6 months or more, and sound out words, but has no understanding whatsoever of the concept of patterns (I expect once she 'gets' the concept though that she will race ahead in this area too), and we don't do much reading aloud because it's over her head and she would rather play with duplo or do 'numbers time'. Comprehension of a read-aloud is almost non-existent and actually a touch worrying (though her emotional awareness and general comprehension of everyday life is well beyond her age, so she probably just isn't interested enough to listen yet!)

 

My point being, she has strengths and weaknesses, and it upsets me, a lot, that I have to focus on her weaknesses or nothing at all because someone else feels insecure, or someone else can't accept that their child is different to mine. I'm not judging their non-reading 7yo, my sister couldn't do basic equations at the age of 11, people are different. But why do only the people with 'normal' kids get to share in being proud parents, while we stand around quietly trying to avoid being asked about when our kids hit the same milestones. I want someone to be happy for us and share in the excitement when we reach a new developmental step, but they don't. 

 

And then there's the fact that any advancement beyond normal age capabilities, if I can prove it is not forced unwillingly, is supposedly because she is gifted. It has nothing to do with anything I have done to help, encourage or teach, it's all because of external factors (which makes the other parent feel better about their non-gifted child). Yeah, perhaps giftedness plays a part (though, quite honestly, I don't think she is actually gifted, just bright), but a child needs someone to foster that, provide for it, guide it and, yes, sometimes push them to the edge of their capabilities instead of letting them sit at a comfortable average. And I don't think you need to be gifted to be above average, I think you just need to be willing to work at a level of challenge instead of being glad that the current, grade appropriate level is 'easy' and coasting through it. Elementary math is a great example of this. Again, let me reiterate that I had a sister who couldn't do basic equations in 5th grade, so I am well aware every child is different, but in the one-on-one environment of homeschooling, I think many children are capable of working beyond their 'grade level' in math because, honestly, there isn't THAT much to learn. But many take a year to finish a grade of math because that's just how it works, and they coast if it's easy instead of finding the threshold of challenge, whether that threshold is 6 months ahead, a year behind, or 3 years ahead.  It doesn't take a year to learn addition and subtraction, it takes a certain mental maturity and grasping of a concept, and our schools have decided most children experience that maturity somewhere in their 1st grade year. But the idea every child will learn at the same time in the same way and it will take the same amount of practice and time to cement that knowledge simply doesn't make sense. Some kids just won't 'get it' until a little later, and others, with encouragement and challenge, will get it earlier.

 

It shouldn't be considered a bad thing to challenge a young child academically, at least, not in my opinion. It's not pushing them, or forcing them, or expecting too much, it's finding out where they are at and teaching them to work to their fullest potential and set high standards for themselves, whether that means a 3yo doing first grade math, or a 13yo who can't quite manage fractions yet but is trying their best. Isn't this why we homeschool in the first place? As long as they are working at a place of challenge for them, who cares what the numbers are.

 

It's the same argument I have against the concept that I am just lucky. Look, I certainly acknowledge that some of it is down to luck and personalities and not everything is in my control, but why is it that if my child is a little angel who says please and thank you and helps me load the groceries onto the checkout nicely while asking intelligent questions, the people around us exclaim how lucky I am to have such a good natured child and how blessed I am that she is so lovely and caring and helpful and 'aren't I just so lucky'. But if she is having a bad day, and has a meltdown at the checkout and screams at me, I end up getting dirty looks or even people making comments about discipline and it's all obviously because I am a terrible parent. Why do I only get credit for the bad things! Because other parents who's children are not doing the good things don't want to acknowledge that it might have anything at all to do with them, so it mustn't have anything to do with me either. I guess they assume I am judging them. I'm not, because we have the meltdown days too.

 

Unfortunately, most of what I've said here is not socially acceptable. So yeah, I know how you feel OP. When my DD1 finishes playing with her dollhouse, after having spent the morning doing art and playing pretend with her sister, I'll be sure to inform her that I have been stifling her childhood with my developmentally inappropriate expectations, and send her outside :) (actually, no I wont, because we have some other homeschooling friends coming over in an hour. These ones even teach their Ker Latin! lol)

[sunnyday]

And then there's the fact that any advancement beyond normal age capabilities, if I can prove it is not forced unwillingly, is supposedly because she is gifted. It has nothing to do with anything I have done to help, encourage or teach, it's all because of external factors (which makes the other parent feel better about their non-gifted child). Yeah, perhaps giftedness plays a part (though, quite honestly, I don't think she is actually gifted, just bright), but a child needs someone to foster that, provide for it, guide it and, yes, sometimes push them to the edge of their capabilities instead of letting them sit at a comfortable average. And I don't think you need to be gifted to be above average, I think you just need to be willing to work at a level of challenge instead of being glad that the current, grade appropriate level is 'easy' and coasting through it.

 

I respect your opinion, I just have a different one. I think that, for us, non-academic skills, really and truly, are important enough to push academics aside. Like encouraging a child to eat her broccoli, I will encourage my child to play outside instead of doing a workbook page. She likes the workbook page, just like she likes her macaroni and cheese, but at some point I have to say no second servings! :) I push my child to the edge of her capabilities in hiking, and playing with peers, and being bored enough to figure out new ways to use her toys. I only occasionally indulge her in her love of "doing school".

 

I think it's great you and your DD enjoy doing kindergarten work together. Learning is fun! For us, other stuff is fun too. I don't think either approach has inherent benefits, but a family has to follow their hearts and their priorities. I personally suspect that the child's potential will be the same regardless, but perhaps it will be tapped in different ways by different parenting/educational choices? Who knows! You only get one chance to raise each kid. ;)

 

I remember when DS was...4.5? 5? The preschool teacher gave him one of those cute little questionnaires, "What's your favorite thing to eat/your favorite color/what's your favorite thing to do?" He said his favorite thing to do was reading lessons with Mom. XD So cute!

[jennynd]

I do not mention about my kids accomplishment to any friends who have kids about my kids' age. I learned that from experience. It never turn out good. I do talk about my kids with people who also have high ability and already have high achievement. People who has kids in Harvard, Cornell and Columbia..etc. I am lucky that I know quite a few. They went through what I went through and I found their advises are helpful. I don't find a common point talking about my kids with most people so I don't find it necessary even to mention what my kids are doing.

I guess.. The question is.. You know your kids are bright. why do you find it necessary to talk about it?

 

Just a side note. If you do want to talk about your accelerated kids, talk about them on accelerated board.

[Farrar]

I second the fine line that people are talking about.  I don't find someone telling about how their child loves reading grating at all.  I do find it grating when someone says something that implies that if only everyone did it the way they did it, then they'd have early readers too.  Sigh.  So condescending and such a closed perspective.

 

 

I think that, for us, non-academic skills, really and truly, are important enough to push academics aside.

 

:iagree:  :iagree:  :iagree:

 

Please, please, please, when you hear a parent of older children say that the focus at a young age should be on things other than academics, then know that they're not trying to say ignore your child's needs, do nothing, just play in ditches, etc.  They may be telling you from experience that they really wish, huge dentist bill later, that they'd focused more on hygiene skills.  Or looking at a slovenly preteen, that they wished they'd worked more on habit training.  Or that they wish, with a child who struggles to write that they'd focused more on storytelling instead of handwriting and invented spelling.  All of that stuff seemed okay at the time, but down the road, not so much.  So much of the academics falls into place when a child is ready.  There's no rush.  It doesn't mean don't do math and reading if a child loves it...  but if a child loves it, then strewing that stuff and just being present for your child and willing to engage them with it will take care of it.  And pretty much all children need to be outside and have free play - yes, at the expense of academics.

[SKL]

To be fair, I don't see other parents IRL bragging about their kids' accomplishments either.  People usually want to talk about things where we share common ground.  Since all kids have unique strengths and weaknesses, people usually don't talk about "where their kid is" milestone-wise.  Sometimes they try to encourage their tot to show off, but that usually backfires.  :P

 

I'm not sure I understand why it is necessary for others IRL to acknowledge that some of us work with our preschoolers.  Or that some of us don't work with our preschoolers.  That's a private matter in my opinion.  Kind of like whether we take our kids to church (or other group worship) or not.  If someone asks, that's one thing, but otherwise, isn't there anything else to talk about?  Sure there is.

 

I've been on the "bragging" side, because I sometimes don't know when to shut my trap.  I sometimes regret what I've allowed out of my mouth, because it doesn't pass the test of "is this helpful / necessary" or "is this kind."

[Garga]

If I am really honest I will have to admit that I taught my son to read on my lap because it was easy and fun. Perhaps i am just lazy. I just don't think people know that it is even possible. I read so much stuff about how a child can't read until they are a certain age. Or how they NEED phonics from the get go.

I get more frustrated to hear that the only reason my son can read is because he is gifted. Uh no. He reads because I believed a toddler could read, so I taught him.

I keep things in my signature about what James does and his age because then I don't really have to say that he is accelerated. If people choose not to believe it. That is their issue. If people choose to think that I spend hours a day hot housing him that is their right to believe also. But I made the statement that we may seem like we do a lot, plowing through a large amount of work at a rapid pace. But in reality we do very little in a day these day. Or rather I do very little academics with him. On the other hand James spends several hours of his own free time each day reading through dozens of books. I am not going to stop him doing that.

Wait...first you say he is not gifted and the reason he learned to read is because you taught him and that the reason other kids don't learn to read early is because people don't believe kids can be taught.

 

But then you say that you put what your son does in your signature and if people don't want to believe he's accelerated then that's their issue.

 

So, is he gifted/accelerated or not?

 

I absolutely 100% believed with all my heart that my children would learn to read early. I totally believed it was possible.

 

It didn't turn out that way and I was heartbroken. My oldest son did not sit on my lap learning and it was not easy and fun to teach him. He wasn't proficient until he was 9. And I mean, he was struuuuuggling until he was 9 after years and years of instruction. I cannot begin to describe the intense frustration we both felt over our reading lessons. I really wish I'd had just waited to even start until he was 8--just like people used to say, and I thought those people were nuts. But they were right.

 

My youngest son learned to read exactly as he was supposed to. Not early, not late. Exactly in the middle.

 

Your post about how it's easy and fun to teach your son to read and the reason he can read is because you believed it could be done...sounds a little braggy. Because I believed it could be done and it couldn't. Now, I think it's wonderful that your son can read and I think it's a great gift you've been given to have a child that is so easy to teach. But telling other people about how fun and easy it was and you believed it into happening is soooo difficult to hear. If you say that it was fun and easy for YOU and that you have a kid who is naturally bent to learn to read--that's something I can understand and be happy about with you. But to infer that it is easy and fun for everyone, as long as the mom believes it will be--that's distressing to hear for someone who fought hard to teach their child to read.

[MomatHWTK]

I find in coversation people are most happy when asked about themselves or their children.  Very seldom do I find it necessary to discuss my childrens' academic achievements with casual acquaintances.  For true friends, I know who I can discuss these issues with and will often preface my statements by saying I know it may sound like bragging.  Now, where I do fall down in this area is with my DD's art.  I need to try to be more cautious and less enthusiastic when discussing her talent.  Since she is able to draw in a way that I cannot, I am more impressed by that skill than academics so I probably tend to mention it more.  But usually I am talking to people with adult children.  I don't talk kids' achievements with parents of similarly situated kids unless there is a very specific context for doing so, it is just asking for comparisons to be made.  And really, why does anyone need to know how many books my child does or doesn't read in a day? 

[Korrale]

Wait...first you say he is not gifted and the reason he learned to read is because you taught him and that the reason other kids don't learn to read early is because people don't believe kids can be taught.

 

But then you say that you put what your son does in your signature and if people don't want to believe he's accelerated then that's their issue.

 

So, is he gifted/accelerated or not?

 

I absolutely 100% believed with all my heart that my children would learn to read early. I totally believed it was possible.

 

It didn't turn out that way and I was heartbroken. My oldest son did not sit on my lap learning and it was not easy and fun to teach him. He wasn't proficient until he was 9. And I mean, he was struuuuuggling until he was 9 after years and years of instruction. I cannot begin to describe the intense frustration we both felt over our reading lessons. I really wish I'd had just waited to even start until he was 8--just like people used to say, and I thought those people were nuts. But they were right.

 

My youngest son learned to read exactly as he was supposed to. Not early, not late. Exactly in the middle.

 

Your post about how it's easy and fun to teach your son to read and the reason he can read is because you believed it could be done...sounds a little braggy. Because I believed it could be done and it couldn't. Now, I think it's wonderful that your son can read and I think it's a great gift you've been given to have a child that is so easy to teach. But telling other people about how fun and easy it was and you believed it into happening is soooo difficult to hear. If you say that it was fun and easy for YOU and that you have a kid who is naturally bent to learn to read--that's something I can understand and be happy about with you. But to infer that it is easy and fun for everyone, as long as the mom believes it will be--that's distressing to hear for someone who fought hard to teach their child to read.

I am sorry. I didn't intend to cause you, or anyone any consternation. From experience I have found that teaching a child to read when they are 2 is easier than teaching a child at 5 or 6. The methods are different. My son is the 5th toddler I have taught to read. I am working with a 6th child now. I also tutor elementary children's but I have to use very different methods when working with them.

It was a conscious decision on my part to teach my son to read when he was so young so that he didn't have to go through the anxiety when he was older.

It wasn't that I believed it and it happened. It was the fact that I had seen 1-2 year olds reading that I knew it COULD happen. There are many even in the educational field that still believe children under 4-5 years are completely unable to read. So many people don't even attempt to teach reading that young because it is unknown. It doesn't mean that one should or shouldn't choose to teach a younger child. A parent chooses what they want for their family. Neither way is right or wrong. I am sorry it I had made that unclear.

 

Secondly I consider acceleration different to gifted. My son has been doing academic like things via play for 1.5 years. So he is pretty much where I expect him to be academically.

 

There are many things that my son can't do that children his age can do. But that is not to any fault of my own. It is just what it is. I don't consider it bragging when I hear my friends tell me all the amazing things that their kids do that my son can't. It isn't fair in my mind for me to compare him. My son was in early intervention, he did speech therapy and qualified for special education preschool due to certain delays. I opted out. So we did a lot of therapies at home when he was little. Teaching him to read was perhaps the easier of the things we worked on.

[Kerileanne99]

Wait...first you say he is not gifted and the reason he learned to read is because you taught him and that the reason other kids don't learn to read early is because people don't believe kids can be taught.

 

But then you say that you put what your son does in your signature and if people don't want to believe he's accelerated then that's their issue.

 

So, is he gifted/accelerated or not?

 

I absolutely 100% believed with all my heart that my children would learn to read early. I totally believed it was possible.

 

It didn't turn out that way and I was heartbroken. My oldest son did not sit on my lap learning and it was not easy and fun to teach him. He wasn't proficient until he was 9. And I mean, he was struuuuuggling until he was 9 after years and years of instruction. I cannot begin to describe the intense frustration we both felt over our reading lessons. I really wish I'd had just waited to even start until he was 8--just like people used to say, and I thought those people were nuts. But they were right.

 

My youngest son learned to read exactly as he was supposed to. Not early, not late. Exactly in the middle.

 

Your post about how it's easy and fun to teach your son to read and the reason he can read is because you believed it could be done...sounds a little braggy. Because I believed it could be done and it couldn't. Now, I think it's wonderful that your son can read and I think it's a great gift you've been given to have a child that is so easy to teach. But telling other people about how fun and easy it was and you believed it into happening is soooo difficult to hear. If you say that it was fun and easy for YOU and that you have a kid who is naturally bent to learn to read--that's something I can understand and be happy about with you. But to infer that it is easy and fun for everyone, as long as the mom believes it will be--that's distressing to hear for someone who fought hard to teach their child to read.

Hhmm, I guess I don't necessarily equate accelerated with gifted. Gifted kids are often accelerated, but accelerated kids are not all gifted maybe?

 

Please don't take this the wrong way as I am not singling you out...I just think this is the whole point of this thread! For her, that WAS her experience. It is no less valid than yours, right? and I can absolutely understand how frustrating that must have been to really want to give your child the gift of reading early on, firmly believe it to be possible, yet your child needed something different! I think every parent finds themselves in that position with SOMETHING they want to pass to their kiddos:)

The point is, everybody, every parent goes by the experiences they had with their own child/children. They do their best. But, as your response highlights, it is very difficult to talk about personal experiences or even the beliefs they have taken from their experiences when everything you say may well be taken as bragging by someone who had a different experience.

Just as someone who had a child on a typical reading/learning path might find it extremely difficult to believe that all children can learn to read early, in a fun and joyful manner, a person with her experience might find it difficult to believe the opposite.

Unfortunately, one belief is popular and the other is ...taken as bragging.

[Korrale]

I think kids reading above grade level or reading earlier than the average gets brought up a lot because parents are genuinely seeking good books to offer their young child. It is hard sometimes to find a book that has the right level of difficulty that allows a child to read with enjoyment by not being too challenging, but has just enough to challenge them a little. That perfect goldilocks book. But for a parent that has a reader outside of the normal recommended ages (younger or older in age or maturity) there is a struggle with what is appealing to the child. My son is at a point where a lot of books that would initially seem a good fit, on his level, are about kids going to school. He can't really grasp the schooling experience and relate. (I am sure many homeschoolers have kids like that too.)

Other books just cover content that he is just not ready for. It seems that there are many parents having this dilemma. That is why you will read a lot of things like "my 5 year old is reading at a 5th grade level". There is not bragging in that.

[SKL]

What is wrong with just saying "this is what worked for us" and not getting into "I think this would/should work for other people"?  Why the reluctance to accept that all kids are different?

 

I've noticed that there's something humbling about having more than one kid.  It proves that the parents really don't have that much control over what their kids can and will do.  Same parent, same home, same opportunities, two vastly different sets of learning curves.  And that's not a bad thing.

 

I would also like to know why some people consider it a tragedy that more kids don't read at age 3 or younger.  I mean, my youngest read at 3.  It was great.  She has always loved books, she devours them day in and day out.  I'm so glad for her that she has this ability and resource.  But other kids who are only now starting to read at her age are just as happy, healthy, engaged.  20 years from now, nobody is going to care when any of them started to read, or even how many books they have read.

[Tanikit]

I have two girls. The eldest starting reading early readers shortly before turning 3 and the youngest who has just turned 3 is also reading early readers now. At 6 my eldest can read pretty much anything and I do have to keep trying to find books that suit her and that will keep her happy.

 

However, like everyone says here: children are different. I am having to work with my youngest on jumping with two feet every single day as she is in a gymnastics class where she cannot possibly keep up with the other 3 year olds - yet she has more than enough arm strength to cope on the bar and to swing a lot. My eldest on the other hand was jumping from very young, but needed a lot more help with arm strength - we had to do wheelbarrow exercises every day to help with that so that she could turn cartwheels which she also wanted to do to keep up with her friends. 

 

When it comes to fine motor achievements - when we are in Sunday school the parents there comment a lot on my youngest's coloring as she stays in the lines and colors really neatly for her age, whereas my eldest still often scribbles over the Sunday school page at age 6 - she can color neatly, but chooses not to.

 

I would like to be able to talk about all my child's achievements - and I do - I will say what they are good at and what they are struggling with when talking to people. The problem is that on message boards - this board is for writing about education and so physical skills can seldom be mentioned here. Its also not generally a place where people discuss social skills (my youngest pulled her older sister's hair this morning and the eldest called the youngest a baby for needing to practice jumping over towels, but at the same time when one of them is hurt - by the dentist or another child they will give each other a hug) I think parents need to be aware that children need to grow in all areas, that they all differ and that what someone is talking about on a post is only ever a very small part of what goes on in that household.

 

We as adults should have the maturity to celebrate with someone when their child does well and to offer support when the parent or child is suffering. There is a saying: Trouble shared is trouble halved, joy shared is joy doubled - why have we got so competitive that someone sharing their child's accomplishments makes us feel less worthy. That is crazy.

[Embassy]

I think that all parents should become aware of the built-in comparison culture of today's parenting.  People compare.  Talking about something that your child does that is ahead of the game can be perceived as bragging by others even if it is completely true.  There is also a belief that a child is advanced (physically, academically, whatever) because of something the parent does.  I try to do my part to dispel that idea.  You can do the same thing with multiple kids and have very different results.  

 

At the same time, it is a difficult situation to be in.  Where is the line between sharing and bragging if your child is advanced?  I've found that it is best to share among parents who share your journey or with family (possibly).  As far as reading goes...I never know what people mean when they say "started reading" because the meaning is quite subjective.  I don't even know what to say for what ages my kids started reading.  

 

What I don't like...is when people say things to or in front of your child that cause your child to think that he/she is somehow better than others who don't have the same skills/talents.  I hate that.  I value effort.  I value individual differences.  We all have strengths and weaknesses and I have to work against this comparison culture to help my kids have healthy attitudes about their strengths and weaknesses.  It is okay to be good at something.  It is okay if you are not good at something.  It is okay to be yourself.  It is okay for others to be themselves.    The end.

[AimeeM]

I did do early learning with my youngest as a toddler and she is very far from reading or doing advanced math. I know others have had success but I do start to worry when people say that all you need to do is spend a little bit of time with a toddler and to start early and they will be reading. It is nice that others can have success but it makes me a bit worried about her when there is probably no reason to be.

 

My 20 month old not only doesn't read - he only says about 3 words. Right now we're visiting Grandma and he's hiding behind curtain blinds.

He IS gifted - in the art of trouble :D

And I'm good with that. Don't worry so much. Seriously.

All of my children have different gifts - some gifts academics, others not so much, lol.

Honestly, I enjoy hearing parents share about their child's gift(s). It shows they care and that they're excited for their children.

[AimeeM]

First of all, I do think some of it is "bragging."  I understand the point being made here that there is a difference between honestly discussing your child's achievements and bragging but I think some of my mom acquaintances have crossed that line.

 

However, I see your point about the "better late than early" philosophy being popular here. I started the thread that lead to this thread and it opened my eyes a bit. I had started to think that everyone agreed that it was best to delay academics because I was only reading CM and Waldorf sources.

 

I'll confess that I'm somewhat skeptical of the idea that we're following our children's lead when we push them academically. To give a farfetched example, the pageant mom who insists that her daughter is the one who wants to compete. I think kids have their own interests but little children only know the world that we show them. They may not be interested in everything we highlight for them but they won't know about things that we don't show them. Little children are very attuned to their parents' interests and gravitate towards what they think we think is important. For example, my daughter is very interested in reading stories about the saints but I've laid the foundation for that interest by buying many saints books, reading them to her and talking about the saints. 

Well, I'll never claim that we are doing academics with my middle child because he wants it or that I'm following his lead. I wouldn't know - I didn't ask the 4.5 year old. I'm NOT in the better late than early camp.

[Smiles]

I don't post often but I do want to say in the long run we all want what is best for our children! When I am out with other mothers I look around and I listen and sometimes its like a war amongst all of us when really it ok to do things a little different. I think its great that a child reads early but its also great if they read a little later. I don't think it determines their future, that's just my opinion. We are all in this together to help each other. I also want to add that Einstein was a late reader I think he was 8? before he started reading and some people believed he was dumb and look now what we call someone when they are smart! Last I want to add its not my intention to hurt anyone's feelings.

[ssavings]

It's a fine line to walk.  Most parents want to believe their kids are bright.  If your kid is reading and their kid doesn't even recognize one single letter, hey are going to question whether their kid or their parenting isn't so great after all.  You don't want to be the person who makes people question their kids or their parenting.  :)

 

It's the same with anything.  Both of my kids did some things early, and some things late-ish.  When I talk to people with kids, I usually talk about the areas where my kids were late bloomers, because it makes other parents feel sympathetic instead of competitive.  Maybe it shouldn't be like that, but I can't control how other people's minds work.  (And to be honest - I can be guilty of this too.)

 

If I want to tell people that my 3yo likes to read, I'll say something like "she loves books / she always has her nose in a book."  I won't get into the details such as "she read 'preparation'" unless the other mom starts telling me something really wow about her kid first.  :)

 

Head on over to the accelerated board if you are bursting to tell something that might be read as a "brag."  Chances are, you will get a different reaction there because most of us have been in your position many times.

:iagree: This is pretty much exactly how I feel, only worded in such a way that is much better than I could have. 

 

In general, I hesitate to give details of what, specifically, my children are doing academically. And I make sure to compliment how well other children are doing. 

 

Having kids is HARD! I think that everyone just wants to know that they are doing a good job. 

[8filltheheart]

Honestly I do get a little worried when lots and lots of people start mentioning their really bright early readers or math whizzes and how it took no effort. I know there are kids out there like that but it makes me worried that my kids are slow or they are not bright like those kids. I rather not have people talk about how early and without any effort kids learned things. I know that in the long run it doesn't matter what age my kids did something and that nothing is set in stone but when I hear of lots of precocious kids I do get lingering worry. I know that just because I don't have precocious children with reading doesn't mean they don't have their own strengths or that they can bloom later in life. Things have always come easy to me but my kids had to struggle a bit. On here talking about curriculum it is one thing but in real life I don't really tell people what level my children are at unless they have a child going through something similar and I can offer reassurance.

Yrs ago there was a poster on this forum who posted that if she had any 3 yr old child in her charge, she could teach them how to read and that the problems posted were bc people didn't know how to properly teach reading. Her teaching experience was obviously incredibly limited to a small number which was evident by her boast. Children are unique. They don't fit into neat little molds. Simply bc one can does not mean replication of process means another child will be able to.

 

People who insist that if x,y, and z are done means that outcome ABC will occur really only means that they experienced that outcome. If every child could easily be reading if taught in a certain way at a certain time, there would be no naturally late readers, no dyslexics, no LDs. Every child would be reading. That is beyond absurd given the natural variances of every person.

 

It is like suggesting if every child were exposed to learning to play an instrument at age x using method y, they, too, could be a musical prodigy. Or artist. Or whatever. That is not how children develop and mature. There are individual factors which significantly influence individual development and with little kids there is a hugely variant spread for what is considered completely and totally normal.

 

Some kids exposed to early reading will read early. Other kids can learn all their sounds and do some simple sounding out and parents will think they are going to be early readers and then not have them move beyond that stage for many months. It isn't that their child is a poor reader. It is not that their child has any learning issues. Their child is simply not cognitively to the point where reading makes sense. So the child that does it at 4 seems to have had a better teacher and a better foundation, but reality is not that simple. The early reading 4 yr old was cognitively ready.

 

When you have kids that fall outside the statistical avg age for reading, then there is more going on. Gifted on the early end. LDs on the late end. But anything in between the normal range is simply normal. It is a blessing if the child is on the early end, but there is no concern if the child is on the late end.

 

Fwiw, not all late readers are not gifted, either. It is simply their brains' cognitive development "speed" for growing up. Equally, all 4 yr old readers are not gifted. My child that learned to read the easiest is my most completely avg student. My child that struggled the most and read very late s gifted.

 

Don't worry about comparing your child or fretting if reading doesn't come naturally at a younger than avg age simply bc they knew all their letters and sounds bc contrary to the posts otherwise, it is not simply a matter of teaching them to do it. It is more.

 

Fwiw, this is not pertaining to reading, but it does show how kids develop asynchronously. My dd said things outrageously beyond her age at 3. But as a 4 yr old, she can color in beautiful pictures, has great fine motor control, etc. but, if she draws a picture of a person, it is more on par with a young 3 yr old. When I was in college, I remember one of the child,psy classes I took discussing the stages of development of children's drawings of people and whether or not the arms and legs came out of the head or a body was drawn. Did the arms have hands and fingers. Were things connected, etc. At 4 her bodies are definitely on the immature side, but she used words at 3 like photosynthesis and metamorphosis with at least some vague correct correlation to what the words mean (even if not accurate.). Bc her drawings are immature, does it mean that a 4 yr old who is drawing better people with more accurate bodies and parts is receiving a better early childhood educational foundation than her? Obviously, that is absurd. It is developmental.

 

Ok......that was a long ramble. :p. Really it boils down to the fact that almost all early childhood educational outcomes are developmental and not not directly correlated to educational approach.

(If given a nurturing, rich environment of music, literature, and direct interaction. Not discussing neglectful environments)

 

So no need to worry.

[Kerileanne99]

First of all, I do think some of it is "bragging." I understand the point being made here that there is a difference between honestly discussing your child's achievements and bragging but I think some of my mom acquaintances have crossed that line.

 

However, I see your point about the "better late than early" philosophy being popular here. I started the thread that lead to this thread and it opened my eyes a bit. I had started to think that everyone agreed that it was best to delay academics because I was only reading CM and Waldorf sources.

 

I'll confess that I'm somewhat skeptical of the idea that we're following our children's lead when we push them academically. To give a farfetched example, the pageant mom who insists that her daughter is the one who wants to compete. I think kids have their own interests but little children only know the world that we show them. They may not be interested in everything we highlight for them but they won't know about things that we don't show them. Little children are very attuned to their parents' interests and gravitate towards what they think we think is important. For example, my daughter is very interested in reading stories about the saints but I've laid the foundation for that interest by buying many saints books, reading them to her and talking about the saints.

I totally agree that sometimes it IS bragging!

And NOBODY wants to be in a position to sit and listen to a long laundry list of things someone else is doing that they or their child is not, lol. I guess I see a fairly casual conversation as a bit different. I would HOPE that if I ever went overboard and started spouting off like an academic pageantry mom I would be struck by a sudden violent coughing fit.

 

Every single parent on earth is going to brag about heir child at some point...at least I really, really hope so:). So yes, I definitely think there is a line between commenting and sharing and full-out bragging. I just sometimes wish that line was a bit more tolerant?

 

I suspect that when it is all said and done, regardless of how anyone sees it? All of us would feel at least a bit uncomfortable if someone truly started bragging about their child. Whether it is because they read well, are very athletic, are the world's biggest and cutest mischief makers, etc.

I guess my point is I couldn't care less when anyone's child starts something! I am thrilled for their parents. I am happy to hear when they develop an interest in something. I don't compare their kid to mine, I am proud of any accomplishments on their behalf...especially if it is something they were working toward. I hope others will give me that same attitude.

I DO believe that all kids are different. And they all do have areas they are doing well in/struggling in.

 

My kid seems to be uh, behaviorally challenged some days, lol. Believe me, if I thought for a moment that if we dropped anything academic to focus on behavioral issues it would help? In a heart beat. But I had found that if she gets that schedule of 'school' with mom for a bit in the morning she is so much more calm and in control of herself the whole day through.

 

We do what works for us, as does everyone in this forum. I HIGHLY doubt there is a single mom or dad at WTM that does not agonize on a daily basis about what is best for their kiddos:)

[lorisuewho]

I've noticed that there's something humbling about having more than one kid.  It proves that the parents really don't have that much control over what their kids can and will do.  Same parent, same home, same opportunities, two vastly different sets of learning curves.  And that's not a bad thing.

I agree. By the fourth child I realized I was never going to write that parenting advice book I was writing in my head when I was pregnant with the first!

[MomatHWTK]

:lol:

[AimeeM]

 

Fwiw, not all late readers are not gifted, either. It is simply their brains' cognitive development "speed" for growing up. Equally, all 4 yr old readers are not gifted. My child that learned to read the easiest is my most completely avg student. My child that struggled the most and read very late s gifted.

 

This. I read early and I am NOT gifted; I am perfectly, totally.... average :)

My husband read at a normal age (may be considered "late" by today's standards; what used to be "normal" standards in Catholic schools in the 70's), and his iQ is exceptionally high - he's classified as highly gifted.

[Desert Strawberry]

IMO spouting off your child's grade levels and academic achievements, when unsolicited, is akin to sharing your personal income in exact dollar amounts, or telling which candidate you voted for. It's tacky and uncomfortable.

I can't speak for anyone else, but we don't use  grade levelled curriculum. I have to do a little math and a bit of estimation to name a grade level for any given subject. I am satisfied with saying my kid is doing well in math (above grade level if pressed), struggling with writing or learning to read. If it comes up that my 5th grader is starting physics, I will qualify that his curriculum introduces it early for xyz reasons. I won't mention that it's a 7th grade (ish) text, because who cares. 

I only mention it for an example ;)

 

[Joker]

There was a period of time I didn't want to leave the house or be around very good friends because youngest would read everything out loud that she saw. She was only three and I did absolutely nothing to help her read. She just did it. Some that I had considered good friends were touchy about it though and some would take shots at me hinting at how horrible it must be for her to be so pushed or that I was bragging (I guess they thought I told her to read everything out loud around them?). I didn't bring it up and if they asked I was honest, but it didn't matter. I was excited when she was finally of an age that was considered normal to be reading but then they would comment on what she was reading. It was seriously a no win situation. I honestly wish I had friends at the time who I could have talked to about it and shared my excitement about what she was doing. I wish I could have talked with them about how to proceed or been given advice, but that just wasn't going to happen. I think I have much better friends now but I still don't share much at all about either dds' academics even when asked because I remember that it can get ugly.

[8filltheheart]

There was a period of time I didn't want to leave the house or be around very good friends because youngest would read everything out loud that she saw. She was only three and I did absolutely nothing to help her read. She just did it. Some that I had considered good friends were touchy about it though and some would take shots at me hinting at how horrible it must be for her to be so pushed or that I was bragging (I guess they thought I told her to read everything out loud around them?). I didn't bring it up and if they asked I was honest, but it didn't matter. I was excited when she was finally of an age that was considered normal to be reading but then they would comment on what she was reading. It was seriously a no win situation. I honestly wish I had friends at the time who I could have talked to about it and shared my excitement about what she was doing. I wish I could have talked with them about how to proceed or been given advice, but that just wasn't going to happen. I think I have much better friends now but I still don't share much at all about either dds' academics even when asked because I remember that it can get ugly.

Homeschooling, kids and achievements.....they just aren't good topics of conversation IRL.

[wendyroo]

There was a period of time I didn't want to leave the house or be around very good friends because youngest would read everything out loud that she saw. 

 

When my 8 month old son started walking I would try to hold him on my lap during our Mommy and Me group because if he started wandering around the room the other moms would start fretting about why their little ones weren't walking yet.  I found myself downplaying his achievement trying to make them feel better: "Well, he still falls a lot and he's not babbling or picking things up in a pincher grip yet."

 

Being a mom is hard and being a mom in a group of other moms is even harder.  

[SKL]

Isn't it nice when the kids are old enough that differences aren't usually so obvious?  With my kids, it was using the toilet.  They were the only ones in the tot classes who weren't in diapers, and everyone had something to say about it.  But no, I wasn't going to make them pee on themselves in order to make other moms happy....

[Syllieann]

After reading this thread, I feel like I need to need to prove that my kid isn't an ill-mannered, lazy, obese oaf before I can admit to spending any time on early academics. I best follow it up with a detailed description of our living situation and climate to justify why that time couldn't have been spent outside instead. Then, if I say it was only 15 minutes, instead of long, grueling hours of tedious work, it will be bragging.

 

But, then I step back and realize that I am guilty of the same thing that makes a mom say, "I could never homeschool for reasons x, y, z". I interpreted someone else's choices as criticism of my own, different choices. I should not feel that way, but darn this parenting business, it's entirely too high stakes to be without all the anxiety we cause ourselves.

[MomatHWTK]

The OP  in the "Academics in K" post referred to a full day of K education followed by homework.  Reference to spending time on other areas beyond academics by me were based on the assumption that the OP's query was based on the perception that some K children were spending 8 hours per day on academics.  I personally believe investing that much time in academics would lead to a negative trade off. 

[corduroy]

Something I think is kind of funny about how we're all sort of trained to brag/"brag" about our kids, in our culture, is that we often talk about how early and how quickly/easily a kid hit a benchmark, which I think is often handled as a proxy for smartness. But emerging evidence seems to show that intelligence is actually much less critical for life outcomes than we think it is (so long as you're above a certain level), whereas grit and effort are very, very important. So it's interesting to me that people don't talk/"brag" more about things like "My daughter has taken two years to learn to read fluently, and she stuck it out, reading to me every night, even when she didn't feel like it." I guess that strikes me as much more "brag-worthy" in that that is a really valuable life skill, and a really valuable thing to know intimately about yourself, that you have the ability to keep going when the going is tough. But especally in American culture, I definitely see a thing where we all agree that it's more impressive if your kid hits a benchmark very early in the range, even if it came extremely easily to the child - in fact, especially if it came very easily! (No judgment: I have this demon whispering away in my head, myself.)

 

My particular child has some mild asynchronous development happening, which is excellently humbling, and really good at making a person understand that she has much, much less control than she would like to believe! Insofar as I have any control at all, for the above-mentioned reasons of grit and persistence, I try not to ever say things in his hearing that basically come down to "he's so smart". I mean, first of all, he's four. What do I know about who he will ultimately be? And second, I don't care that much if he's smart. But I care a lot that he learns that true mastery comes with effort, not from innate talent. So if I praise him within his hearing, I try to only ever say things about how he tried and tried again until he got something the way he wanted.

 

When I first came to this board, I felt a lot of low-grade anxiety about how I needed to provide a certain kind of academic backdrop for my kid or unspecified horribles might happen. Now, I am finding myself turning more and more into a "better late than early" person, somewhat to my surprise, but I have zero opinion about other people doing academic work with their young children. (Unless they insist that whatever is working for them is objectively best for all children, everywhere, of course.) 

[8filltheheart]

Corduroy, I love your post. It is so true in all things life. The kids my kids know in college that struggle the most are the kids that breezed through school up to that pt. they don't know what it is like to sit down and struggle through hours of trying to figure things out on their own. They are used to things coming easily, w/o effort, and/or having someone teach it directly to them until they understand. Grit is a large part of success. Ds had a lot of friends change majors bc they couldn't (or wouldn't put in the effort) to succeed in the classes bc they didn't "get it" right away.

 

The beauty of homeschooling is that our kids can have that right mix experience where things don't have to be so hard as to destroy their spirit but challenging enough that they do have to exert effort.

[SKL]

I agree with Corduroy, and I hope we're right about the hard work theory!  That is good news for Miss A, who showed no academic promise whatsoever when she was a preschooler.  ;)  She is about average in IQ but shows so many other important strengths that I really don't worry about her any more.  I work with her, but don't worry.  Much.  ;)

[shawthorne44]

I've had a problem with this.  It started when DD was a baby.  I have a friend with a son 2.5 months younger than DD.  Friend would ask me about milestones as a realistic "What to Expect" since the books are totally useless.  Then I noticed later that she'd double-check the ages DD did something, and then I'd noticed she would be upset.  I figured out that her son wasn't doing some things at the same age as DD.  Of course, there were probably other things that she did later.  So, I started to emphasize the negative.  Like friend was really concerned about her DS drinking out of a cup and when DD did it.  I said, "Oh, she's been able drink out a cup for a long time.  But, remembering that the cup is in her hand hasn't happened yet.  She forgets and pours out the drink on the carpet"  While it was truth that she would sometimes forget and pour the drink, I made it sound like it happened all the time.  In reality, she did that rarely, but my tolerance for it was zero.  

 

There have been other problems based on my cluelessness about what kids "should" be doing.  I mentioned to a mom the potty training idea of having the child count to 30 in order to give a good honest try at the potty.  She looked at me like I had 3 heads. That was my clue that her kid couldn't count to 30.  

 

I don't want to make anyone feel bad.  I don't like disparaging DD either.  I think the sun rises in the morning to see her, and I figure other parents think that way about their kids too.  DD loves her sandbox and I would guess most kids do.  But how can you talk about sandbox activities?