skimomma Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Dd is 5th grade and working through Elemental Science Biology of the Logic Stage. She started covering the "Science Fair Project" part a couple of weeks ago. She picked a topic and got to work. AFTER she started, she learned about our area's regional science fair from friends and asked me to look into entering her project. So I did. There are 24 pages of guidelines. For 5th graders. I skimmed a bit and took note of the registration dates. It looked do-able at the time. Dd's experiment is pretty involved and took a long time to do one trial. It took the better part of a weekend. It had to do with exploring how the acid content of soaking mediums affects cooking time of legumes. She had no plans to do more than one, since it took all weekend. So, now, she has the data and I did more reading of the 24 pages of guidelines. As I read, a feeling of dread started. She would be required to do at least three trials. In addition, the display, report, and graphic requirements are not something a 5th grader (at least mine anyway) could do mostly independently. This was going to require a lot of help and a lot of hassle doing things that really have nothing to do with "science" such as messing around with Excel, formatting in Word, dealing with a minimum of five properly cited references, etc..... These are things my COLLEGE students struggle with (I teach engineering classes). I pulled the plug. She will finish the experiment to the guidelines outlined in her curriculum and we will call it good. I am wondering if we have failed somewhere? There are just not enough hours in a day to mess around with something so picky and I am seriously wondering how school children are doing this without their parents doing most of the work. Should my kid be able to do this stuff on her own?!?! She did the experiment herself....picked a topic, did some research, made a hypothesis, designed the experiment, performed the experiment, recorded the results, and is now drawing some conclusions. Left to her own devices, I think she could represent her experiment in a visual and written format that would make sense. But, it would not come close to meeting the "basic" guidelines required for the fair. Even had I known the guidelines before "approving" dd's topic to accommodate the required multiple trials, I still think the formatting part would require far too much parental involvement. Am I crazy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Twain Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 You post reminds me of something I read in Willingham's book Why Don't Students Like School? It is a book detailing the most relevant research from cognitive science and specific applications to teaching K-12. Chapter 6 is called "What's the Secret to Getting Students to Think Like Real Scientists, Mathematicians, and Historians?" It is very interesting, and the end specifically mentions science fairs. Willingham basically says that science fair projects are almost all of low quality and do not teach the students much about the scientific method. Generally, the main positive result is that students may gain an interest in learning more about science or engineering. Therefore, science fair projects are not a total waste, but they are not as necessary as many people think. If you read the chapter (and the rest of the book), it will give you peace not only about dumping the science fair project but how to invest your school time most effectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momto6inIN Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 We live in a rural area and it would be a big drive for me to take our 8th grade son to do a science fair in the nearest big city (not to mention all the hassles like you mentioned in your post). So I just had him do a project at home roughly following guidelines I found after googling "science fair project middle school" - not very original and not very rigorous, I know, but it got the job done. :) We've just worked on following the scientific method and now his assignment is to write up & display his results in a way that is both meaningful to him and that others can read and understand. I figured that was the whole point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 . This was going to require a lot of help and a lot of hassle doing things that really have nothing to do with "science" such as messing around with Excel, formatting in Word, dealing with a minimum of five properly cited references, etc..... These are things my COLLEGE students struggle with (I teach engineering classes). .......There are just not enough hours in a day to mess around with something so picky and I am seriously wondering how school children are doing this without their parents doing most of the work. Citation is taught in 3rd grade and 4th grade LA for my boys. I did teach my 8 year old how to do a proper citation when he did a school science fair project when he was in kindergarten but that took less than an hour. He cited from Encyclopedia Britannica online, from PbsKids, and from books. We follow the MLA style for convenience and my boys have about 10 citations each. My kids did their presentation for the science fair board using PowerPoint and printing out the slides to stick onto the board. You can do charts and tables in PowerPoint direct instead of having to go to Excel. They caught on fast on how to use PowerPoint by just messing around until they got the look they want. School children have more than a month to do their science fair project. For example my kids have from beginning of the year to first week of May to complete theirs. For example my 8 year old 2nd grader is doing a project on growing onions in water and also on a catapult he designed. He has not decide which one he wants to use for science fair. It takes him maybe 5mins per day to take readings for his onion and another 10mins to change the variables for his catapult and take three readings. So it does not take much time per day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuovonne Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 You are not crazy and you have not failed. Participating in a science fair is not necessary, and most science fairs are for high school students. On the other hand, it might be worth while to look into the science fair for next year when you have more time to prepair. The science fair my 5th grader is in has lots of requirements and the "handbook" is also extensive. However, much of the handbook is suggestions versus requirements. Several of the requirements also need to be looked at through the lens of an elementary student. For example, students need to keep a handwritten daily journal in a bound notebook. But, she doesn't really need to do it daily and she doesn't need to put the info in a particular way. She also needs a report with a table of contents, citations, etc. However, some of the sections can be quite small - a paragraph, and citations are only necessary if information is looked up. Also, I am starting to see the non-science benefits of doing the fair. She is getting practice in budgeting her time, writing, and designing an attractive display. I am also giving my kids lots of support on their science fair projects. For example, I would not hesitate to help her find books or point her to specific places in a very large book. I would not write a citation for her, but I would find a sample format for her, show her the information is on the title page, and help her piece it together part by part. I would not conduct the experiment for her, but I would provide suggestions on how to do things, and I would provide "lab assistant" support in sourcing materials, setup and take-down of bulky or intricate equipment, providing an extra set of hands, etc. For graphs, I guided my DD through what type of graph to choose, what the axis should be, what calculations to do, if any. I do not consider that to be making the graph for her, but it is a far cry from having her to it completely by herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I also feel really lame about not getting it together and having my kids do a science fair project. But they are doing so much this year, and I looked at what we'd have to drop or put aside in order to get it done, and it just didn't seem worth it. But I do feel bad about it. I giggle whenever I see this thread title. What goes through my mind is "Beauty School dropout . . . " from Grease. Weird, I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 If you have failed, so have I. I detest experiments when they are little. No science fairs here. And I don't feel bad about it. Somehow my kids manage to make great science majors. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 Thanks everyone! I just needed a little perspective. Dd does know how to properly cite sources and many of the other requirements. It is just getting it all into the "required" format that seems more like an exercise in parent patience than in a child's science experience. I very much know and understand how the scientific process is important. We use it for every experiment. I just have apparently drawn the line at the required format and thoroughness that I think is a bit over the top for 5th graders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Yeah, I think the last thing you want to do at this stage is make science into a stressful ordeal (for either one of you). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The goal is doing science. You have done this. Entering the fair is absolutely not necessary. I am so sorry that it is so complicated -- it makes me very sad. Ruth in NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Hopefully this will make you laugh. I saw it on facebook. http://funnypicturequotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/ximZlTu.jpg That is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimomma Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 The goal is doing science. You have done this. Entering the fair is absolutely not necessary. I am so sorry that it is so complicated -- it makes me very sad. Ruth in NZ Me too. Dd was very surprised by her findings (so was I) and she was eager to share it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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