early radical acceleration questions

[La Texican]

Based on the book "Developing Math Talent" by Susan G. Assouline.

 

I know my posts are long, and I know everybody has kids to tend to and other things to do, so I would like to thank the board for the answers I have already gotten.

[La Texican]

Hmm,. Where to start? I was planning to go through all of the Singapore textbooks, every page, every problem so he can see how the mathwork looks when it's done on the page. I was teaching him other things about math. I thought this would come togeather to having the concepts and knowing how to do the work. I think I'm spiraling, just not taking so long. He's doing a page or a few of Singapore math a day, which is something like the third time he's seen something. I've been showing him something he's going to learn later, teaching him later, then having him do the work later. I show him stuff we're going to work on months or a year later. We work on it togeather then drop it, then a good while later I give it back to him to do by himself. Now that I've read the book I think this was good enough for early education, but I need to learn to switch gears to a mastery approach. I'm not sure when or how I should switch gears. This is important because my overall goals are to have my two kids able and willing to own their own education by sixth grade (when ef skills are supposed to set in, or start to be worked on). This goal is specific, but the age is not. Somewhere between when they're working across the board on sixth grade level (cognitive age) or actually in sixth grade (physical age) I really need them to begin having that internal locus of control. (Yes, I know I read too much parenting stuff- what did you expect?) :lol:.

[La Texican]

I know this is a process and doesn't happen overnight at any age.

 

Principle from the book: students should feel like they're making steady progress in a subject, not moving too quickly, and not doing unnecessary review work.

 

I feel like we've been doing that so far, but I feel like there's this more systematic method you're trying to show me. My daughters ballerina movie say, "practice makes your good better and your better best." I think the teaching I've been doing is better, but I am interested in learning best. I also think this is a great time for me to learn about it because when people talk about education they often bring up that some kind of developmental change happens around age seven.

[La Texican]

Now I have questions about how and when to make these changes. The process looks a lot like test, place appropriately, fill in gaps, repeat. The book says a lot about after third grade, but sometimes starts as early as kindergarten.

[La Texican]

He's in Singapore 2A, done a few pages of Beast Academy, and had exposure to the first two discs of mastering the fundementals of math, done some khan academy. I thought the early years of homeschool was more about exposure to concepts. After I gave him the free math mammoth grade 1 exit test and he did fine I looked at the 3rd grade taks test and thought about giving it to him out if curiosity. I don't think his reading comprehension is good enough yet. One of the first questions is about an octagon, multiple choice, if it had more than 6 vertices, more than nine vertices, etc. I think if he tried to figure out the question he would know the answer. He's not there yet. Should I just keep teaching him until he's mature enough to be testable, then start the dt-pi model? For for example he just did about a week and a half of borrowing and carrying in Singapore math and I also recently quit telling him what the word problems were asking for when he asks, telling him that's the point of that work. There's like three pages of review. On the second day he said, I don't know how to do this. I explained to him that this was the review and once it's done we can move on, but if he really doesn't know how to do it we'll have to go back a weeks worth of pages and do it all again so he can learn it. He said, I know how to do it, I just don't want to. I'm sure the dt-pi process will suit him well. I'm sure he'd look at a question on a test like the vertices and say he can't do it without trying. That should change soon enough. I can see improvement happening in that area.

[La Texican]

I'm not sure if I should wait for that development to try to answer the problem to kick in before starting the dt-pi process. I'm fairly sure I shouldn't help him interpret the questions on the dt-pi placement tests, that is not in the spirit of what they are describing. I know that the school wanted to wait until he matured to start really teaching him. I disagreed because why wait until he matures to give him an education. I can see where the dt-pi model would work best once this maturity happens.

 

I guess my first question is should I keep teaching the way I have been until this maturity kicks in, start the dt-pi process now anyway and it will self correct, or work on some kind of enrichment that will hothouse his maturity, if so, what? I thought that just teaching the three R's would let him gain that maturity as he ages and gains skills. If so that would be plan A: teaching the 3 r's until the maturity kicks in, and then figure it out. But if dt-pi is the best way to teach the 3 r's, and we've already been accelerating, maybe we're supposed to start that now and it will self correct as maturity develops. Am I missing the point? How and when do I start?

[La Texican]

https://www.depts.ttu.edu/uc/ec2k/Heading.asp?heading_id=225

 

Another thing. He doesn't have to be called a grade, Texas homeschoolers don't report anything to anyone. But I bookmarked this site from Texas Tech where kids can get credit by examination by grade, by subject for $45 bucks a test. I know not to accelerate his grade because I can't predict the future and he may want to be in a competitive contest at some point where official grade level matters. It also might matter if he wants to go to a competitive college. So it's better not to skip the officialgrade unless and until it's necessary or useful. (In school, you would for access to appropriate instruction, but homeschool is more flexible.) If my kid does these credit by examination tests, will that necessarily raise his official grade level if I don't want it to mean that? For example, I've seen that some middle school homeschoolers sit through an AP exam, but get reccomendations to go on and do four more years of that subject in highschool. It doesn't seem like these tests have to move them up a grade, although it can be used that way. Is this right? I haven't seen it brought up for elementary school (why would it be?) Can he take these tests for assessment and for me to create records without automatically changing grades?

[Crimson Wife]

We do math on several levels.

 

#1 is exposure to higher level concepts through things like the LoF middle/high school series, Danica McKellar books, Hands-on Equations, Zacarro, Critical Thinking Press workbooks, etc. I allow calculators to be used for this work and also I provide assistance/"scaffolding" because the goal is exposure to concepts rather than mastering pencil & paper calculations.

 

#2 is working through Singapore (and now Beast Academy for DS) at a slightly accelerated pace (1-2 years above level). My kids use the IP & CWP books in lieu of the grade-level workbook, but I don't skip levels except for PM 6 (which is mostly review and the new concepts they've been previously exposed to via #1). They tend to go through the textbook chapter fairly quickly and then spend most of their time on IP & CWP.

 

#3 is math fact drill as needed. DD only needed it for the times tables. DS needed it for addition & subtraction as well. I re-order Singapore 3 to do the multiplication & division chapters last while my kids work on memorizing the times tables.

[sunnyday]

He's in Singapore 2A, done a few pages of Beast Academy, and had exposure to the first two discs of mastering the fundementals of math, done some khan academy. I thought the early years of homeschool was more about exposure to concepts. After I gave him the free math mammoth grade 1 exit test and he did fine I looked at the 3rd grade taks test and thought about giving it to him out if curiosity. I don't think his reading comprehension is good enough yet. One of the first questions is about an octagon, multiple choice, if it had more than 6 vertices, more than nine vertices, etc. I think if he tried to figure out the question he would know the answer. He's not there yet. Should I just keep teaching him until he's mature enough to be testable, then start the dt-pi model? For for example he just did about a week and a half of borrowing and carrying in Singapore math and I also recently quit telling him what the word problems were asking for when he asks, telling him that's the point of that work. There's like three pages of review. On the second day he said, I don't know how to do this. I explained to him that this was the review and once it's done we can move on, but if he really doesn't know how to do it we'll have to go back a weeks worth of pages and do it all again so he can learn it. He said, I know how to do it, I just don't want to. I'm sure the dt-pi process will suit him well. I'm sure he'd look at a question on a test like the vertices and say he can't do it without trying. That should change soon enough. I can see improvement happening in that area.

 

As Spy Car would say, strike those words from your vocabulary. If you aren't thinking in terms of regrouping, neither is your student.

 

I don't know what dt-pi is so I don't think I can offer much input. I also do not have a student who is pushing to "radically" accelerate. We have four or five different math programs...that gives us plenty to do at our current 2nd-3rd grade math level, while still "making steady progress in a subject, not moving too quickly, and not doing unnecessary review work".

 

I do think that we had a bit of a click after age 6.5-7.

[La Texican]

Crimson Wife, that's about what I've been doing, and knew to keep doing, but radical acceleration is a different method or style of teaching capable learners. I just read the book in the op. It describes a method that is pretest until they get to where they would be working as a low B or high C student and teach them to mastery at that level, retest, repeat, address any gaps.

It came up when I said I bought Dolciani Algebra for scaffolding,exposure to concepts to go along with elementary math he's doing. I think the radically accelerated model cuts out the preview exposure. I consider it good advice because the model was developed by the folks who designed the national talent searches based on a couple of generations of studying, collecting data, and working with advanced learners. What you're describing, what I was doing, was based on how I was taught and how I was taught to teach other kids when I was a kid.

[Crimson Wife]

Crimson Wife, that's about what I've been doing, and knew to keep doing, but radical acceleration is a different method or style of teaching capable learners.

I don't believe in radical acceleration unless the child who is radically accelerated can do the higher-level math in an extremely rigorous program (like AOPS or IMACS type level). Frankly, it has been my observation that not uncommonly bright HS children are radically accelerated via an easy program in order for the parent to have "bragging rights" that their child is [insert young age] but in [insert grade level] math. I don't think this type of radical acceleration does the child any favors in the long run.

 

Are there profoundly gifted kids who can, in fact, handle being radically accelerated via an intellectually rigorous program? Sure, and I support the appropriate placement of these students. But in general I support going "deeper" in math over going faster.

[regentrude]

I don't believe in radical acceleration unless the child who is radically accelerated can do the higher-level math in an extremely rigorous program (like AOPS or IMACS type level). Frankly, it has been my observation that not uncommonly bright HS children are radically accelerated via an easy program in order for the parent to have "bragging rights" that their child is [insert young age] but in [insert grade level] math. I don't think this type of radical acceleration does the child any favors in the long run.

 

Are there profoundly gifted kids who can, in fact, handle being radically accelerated via an intellectually rigorous program? Sure, and I support the appropriate placement of these students. But in general I support going "deeper" in math over going faster.

 

This, precisely.

I see absolutely no value on covering average material at a faster pace and being done quicker. For what purpose? An intellectually gifted student would benefit far more from the opportunity to stretch himself and engage with deeper more complex material.

 

As a college instructor, I encounter bright students who completed what passes for high school with flying colors - only to crumble and break down in college because they have never learned to work. What I see at work just reinforces what I have known from my own experience: the best thing we can do for our gifted students is to give them the gift of struggle and challenge.

 

ETA:  I generally prefer to receive my advice about math education from actual mathematicians and not from educators or psychologists. I have found fundamental differences in the approach between people who look at education aspects and pedagogy,  and people who use math on a daily basis and who understand the concepts and applications.

[regentrude]

 my overall goals are to have my two kids able and willing to own their own education by sixth grade (when ef skills are supposed to set in, or start to be worked on). This goal is specific, but the age is not. Somewhere between when they're working across the board on sixth grade level (cognitive age) or actually in sixth grade (physical age) I really need them to begin having that internal locus of control.

 

Good luck with that. Just a friendly word of warning, based on my own experience and that of many other posters on this forum: do not expect too much independence and impulse control from young teens. Often, 13 year olds require more parental oversight and directing in  their school work than 10 year olds. Where the late elementary kid may have joyfully followed his self directed school work, thing can change dramatically in puberty. Definitely watch out for that, even in motivated and compliant students.

 

[Dmmetler]

I will also add (and this actually comes from talking to the author directly) that even Assouline tends to focus on extending and expanding, not just accelerating when the option exists. What she's NOT in favor of is making a child do every single problem in a series way below their functional level and then possibly adding some "enrichment" that really isn't at their level either. In most PS systems, that's what's going to happen, and pushing for pre-testing and filling gaps is often more a tool to say "look, this kid is doing AOPS on their own, but is in 4th grade. Let's let him finish the three topics in 4th grade math he doesn't already have 100% mastered, and then let him do AOPS instead of making him do the whole math book before he gets to learn anything new".

 

At home, or if you had a flexible teacher she'd be the first to encourage math competitions, Zaccaro's challenge math, AOPS or eIMACS, Math Circles, and similar things in addition to working through a solid math program-and accelerating only as needed. It doesn't mean you won't have your child working through grade level math faster than a book a year (and actually, we reached the point where DD effectively needed to compact 2-3 grades of math because she'd covered so much via the enrichment that nothing was new-so we spent a year doing SM CWP and IP select problems, LOF, and Math contests, and landed in AOPS starting at age 8 1/2-and she slowed down quite a bit. This is the first year we haven't finished multiple math books by this point-and AOPS Pre-A is likely to stretch into the summer).

 

 

 

[regentrude]

I'm not sure if I should wait for that development to try to answer the problem to kick in before starting the dt-pi process. I'm fairly sure I shouldn't help him interpret the questions on the dt-pi placement tests, that is not in the spirit of what they are describing. I know that the school wanted to wait until he matured to start really teaching him. I disagreed because why wait until he matures to give him an education. I can see where the dt-pi model would work best once this maturity happens.

 

I guess my first question is should I keep teaching the way I have been until this maturity kicks in, start the dt-pi process now anyway and it will self correct, or work on some kind of enrichment that will hothouse his maturity, if so, what? I thought that just teaching the three R's would let him gain that maturity as he ages and gains skills. If so that would be plan A: teaching the 3 r's until the maturity kicks in, and then figure it out. But if dt-pi is the best way to teach the 3 r's, and we've already been accelerating, maybe we're supposed to start that now and it will self correct as maturity develops. Am I missing the point? How and when do I start?

 

I am thoroughly confused. What purpose do you see in the DT-pi process? I can see how that is important in a school environment, but for homeschooling, why would you need a test to determine what the child, with whom you work on a daily basis, knows? What new information would you gain from the test?

I also do not understand the issue of maturity. Obviously, you observe your child and can judge his level of maturity - and teach him accordingly. Maturing is a continuous process, not something that happens suddenly. Every child can be taught something at his level.

Forgive me if I misunderstand your situation; it is entirely possible that I overlooked something in your many, long, posts.

 

[quark]

Now I have questions about how and when to make these changes. The process looks a lot like test, place appropriately, fill in gaps, repeat. The book says a lot about after third grade, but sometimes starts as early as kindergarten.

 

I can only give you my experience with my one child. Hope it helps. I hope I am not misunderstanding you but there's one thing jumping out at me from the posts that I couldn't ignore. I find compacting, accelerating, delving deeper and going wider much easier when the push is coming directly and strongly from the child. It takes a lot of guesswork off something like when to start dt-pi (quickly googled it, haven't used it) and also makes it unnecessary to keep pretesting/ post-testing an elementary-aged to middle-school-aged kiddo. Unless yours likes tests. :) Mine doesn't unless there's a clear goal he wants to achieve. Once he wants it...good golly, I tell you, I don't have to guess anymore. I do still have sleepless nights but generally, my decisions on what to expose him to are so much easier!!

 

Is your son asking to be radically accelerated? Instead of thinking of it as accelerating by grade level, can you use non traditional materials like Martin Gardner's Aha! series or problem solving like Math Kangaroo and the MOEMS books and Zaccaro etc as others have suggested (I haven't used Zaccaro longer than one month or so and can't comment much on it) to build maturity and mathematical thinking ability that way? I don't equate accelerating by grade level as an ideal goal. I think of acceleration as the ability to think clearly, for longer periods than expected at age level, being persistent without whining or giving up in a hissy fit. Knowing when to leave a problem aside and being willing to come back to it at a later date knowing it's going to keep kicking your behind until you solve it. Being willing to think. It's not so hard to keep jumping grade levels especially with so much diluted instruction out there. It's harder to be willing to be really challenged to use your grey cells. To admit you don't know but to also know that you want to know. I'm not sure how much a parent can do to make that happen unless a child truly wants it. 

 

It also might matter if he wants to go to a competitive college. So it's better not to skip the officialgrade unless and until it's necessary or useful. (In school, you would for access to appropriate instruction, but homeschool is more flexible.) If my kid does these credit by examination tests, will that necessarily raise his official grade level if I don't want it to mean that? For example, I've seen that some middle school homeschoolers sit through an AP exam, but get reccomendations to go on and do four more years of that subject in highschool. It doesn't seem like these tests have to move them up a grade, although it can be used that way. Is this right? I haven't seen it brought up for elementary school (why would it be?) Can he take these tests for assessment and for me to create records without automatically changing grades?

 

You don't have to change grades. Completely unnecessary. The homeschooled kids I know doing AP exams even in 5th, 6th grade are still 5th, 6th graders*. There are many years left for you to worry about that...don't forget to breathe!!

 

ETA: *the parents have chosen to keep them at grade level in the homeschool for maximum benefit/ use of time. Only one kid that we know had a compelling reason to grade skip...he wanted to apply to uni very early (ETA: he's a prodigy kiddo).

[Laura Corin]

I don't have any experience with radical acceleration in maths.  My experience with a child working far ahead in English, however, is that I was following where he lead.  Yes, I set the material just beyond his comfort zone in order to give him a challenge, but there was no great plan deliberately to accelerate him.  I do believe that all this should come from accommodating the child flexibly, rather than following some external plan.

 

Best of luck with it all

 

Laura

[La Texican]

The radically accelerated model I read in the book is not about getting through everything as fast as possible, acceleration is a side effect of education. Nothing about radical acceleration is about rushing somebody through some weak program. What I took it to mean was to test as often to see what the student knows and is ready to learn. The book was recommeded here, and the book mostly describes the dt-pi process. That's why I asked if I was missing the point. I don't think I missed the point to teach a child according to what they know and are ready to learn. The book did describe students who were in a private tutor situation for math in school. They would know their student pretty well in that situation. I guess the dt-pi would have been for accountability.

 

For those who have read the book, what's different, if anything, about this model from a common self-paced homeschool program? I'm hearing to disregard the testing and messing around with the placement because that's just for a school setting.

 

One thing that might have been different is that it seemed to describe sticking to one level until finished instead of multiple strands. Dmmetler, you just told me that was a misperception of mine while reading the book, the author said her reccomendations are different for a homeschooler or a flexible teacher.

[freesia]

It's also hard to advise when we don't know the age of your child. When my oldest was 7, I thought he would accelerate faster than he did. We actually repeated a year of math with a different program (and then skipped a year later on). It's hard to predict a straight line.

 

I also agree that it is much easier/clear when it's the child pushing. Otherwise, you run the risk of just skimming the surface. I would recommend going deeper not faster UNLESS the child is pushing, in which case s/he probably "gets" the deeper easily. However, don't assume that. My kids are all very strong in math and I have always found more than enough supplemental materials than I can use.

 

Also, while oldest hit Algebra at 7th grade (as a young--Nov. b'day--seventh grader ), I have decided to wait until 8th with the others and use lots of problem solving material. Now, none of my kids are Profoundly Gifted and driving acceleration. That would change my advice.

[freesia]

The radically accelerated model I read in the book is not about getting through everything as fast as possible, acceleration is a side effect of education. Nothing about radical acceleration is about rushing somebody through some weak program. What I took it to mean was to test as often to see what the student knows and is ready to learn. The book was recommeded here, and the book mostly describes the dt-pi process. That's why I asked if I was missing the point. I don't think I missed the point to teach a child according to what they know and are ready to learn. The book did describe students who were in a private tutor situation for math in school. They would know their student pretty well in that situation. I guess the dt-pi would have been for accountability.

 

For those who have read the book, what's different, if anything, about this model from a common self-paced homeschool program? I'm hearing to disregard the testing and messing around with the placement because that's just for a school setting.

 

One thing that might have been different is that it seemed to describe sticking to one level until finished instead of multiple strands. Dmmetler, you just told me that was a misperception of mine while reading the book, the author said her reccomendations are different for a homeschooler or a flexible teacher.

I have found, with dd, that when I start accelerating her math through testing, I run the risk of not spending enough time on a subject and it doesn't "stick". IE, I think she knows it bc she tests well on it, but then we need to review. This is not true, however, with my oldest ds. There is no one way or one thing that works.

 

Sometimes acceleration does happen as a result of one on one eduction, but not always. You can't count on acceleration. There is no way any amount of education/testing, etc. would accelerate my children in spelling. We have to work long and hard on it. One of my children is advanced in writing.Another is doing well, but was "behind" at 8. My eight year old would be considered "behind". Same model of teaching, lots of opportunity different children.

 

All are accelerated in reading, but not all read "early".

[La Texican]

Quark, this is from my other, recent, too-long thread. My kid doesn't care one way or the other. Well, it's hard to say that he doesn't care, because he uses it. I taught him that turtlehead multiplication video the other day. Today he multipled out 12x12 using that method and told me our po box number is the answer on his own time. (No school today). He always does that. He thinks about what he's learned and uses it during his free time when he doesn't have to. He would prefer not to do school at all, but there's no way I'm unschooling. The path to acceleration isn't driven by him or me either one. It's just that I think you have to do a little school on a schedule and those elementary books just aren't that hard, acceleration happens.

Radical acceleration, the kind I made this thread for, isn't the acceleration that just happens when you have the flexibility of homeschooling. The way it was described in the book, it wasn't about acceleration either. It was a way of personalizing a students instruction. It was a philosophy and model of instruction. Now Dmmetler tells me the author wouldn't recommend it to a homeschooler or a flexible teacher.

He has those highlights mathmania puzzlebooks but not Zacarro, a huge stack of them I bought at a yard sale. He reads those in his own time. I want to take him to San Antonio next year for the kangaroo math challenge. I think dmmettler said they get a tshirt and a plushy and it's fun.

 

I was going to say he's not really asking to be accelerated, but I remembered he's been asking to learn algebra. He has that hands on equations app and the mastering the fundementals of math video showed an illustration where arithmatic opened the door to algebra, which opened door after door to several more maths. It was a pretty good sales pitch for learning math. I would have said he's not asking to be accelerated because he's certainly not asking for more work. Then I remembered he has been asking to learn algebra because of that video. I got him the HOE app and I just orderd an old Dolciani algebra book. That's what started the other thread, a comment about the prudence of buying a highschool book for a six year old. In my defense, I meant to use it like Crimson Wife described, as a preview, scaffolding concepts, pointing out gaps. Not to rush real young through a program and call it done.

[La Texican]

Yeah, it's ridiculous that I forgot that he has been asking for algebra. But I'm thinking of my boy and when you say "is he asking for acceleration" the first thing I remember is that he doesn't want to do his math for school and I think, no, he's not wanting to accelerate. He doesn't want to do his work.

[Tattarrattat]

I only read through the posts quickly. I understand that every family and every kid is different, here's just our own experience. One of my kids has been doing AoPS for a while and really loves it. But sometimes I miss the before AoPS years when he had the pure joy of learning, discovering and exploring, with never-ending curiosity and passion. We didn't stick to any curriculum, but he learned so much through reading, discussing, creating etc. We didn’t pay attention to testing and levels, but even though acceleration was not our original focus at the time, he ended up accelerating quite a bit and was well prepared for AoPS,  I still remember the time when he woke me up in countless early mornings in order to talk to me about some new math that he had come up with at night so that he wouldn't forget about them. Now that he’s older, AoPS brings him different kind of enjoyment and satisfaction, mixed with learning to persevere and overcome difficulties. These are what he needs at this stage. But nothing could have replaced the pure joy of math learning when he was younger and I still cherish those memories.

 

Wish you the best in your search of the right way to provide a good education for your kids!

[quark]

I was going to give a long story for LaTex about what kiddo did at 6 years old (it looked mostly like solving codes and watching math on TV and reading biography/ living math books and following various discussion bunny trails and thoughts and observation of patterns). We sometimes sketched Venn diagrams on extra Subway napkins due to all the questions that popped up at random times. Tattarrattat's post says it all...and shorter and sweeter too.

 

(T, DS finds it helpful to have a notebook and pen on his nightstand so he can write down those thoughts the next morning. I don't check his books but once or twice stumbled upon them when helping him change his sheets and it's always very heartwarming to see some of his thoughts scribbled there.)

 

LaTex, the gist of my long message was: no need to think of it as acceleration, radical or otherwise. Think of it as fun, as having the flexibility and time to work with whatever it is that delights your child and is important to you to teach to him. Think of it as a way of life. A daily puzzle to solve. Introduce a puzzle-loving, problem-solving (any problem, needn't be just math) culture in your home. Introduce strategic games. Promote a love of thinking and reading, especially if your goal is self-teaching in 6th grade. The learning/ acceleration then falls more naturally into place and happens on its own.

 

I hope at least some of your questions were answered!

[SeaConquest]

I don't know. My son likes Dragon Box and the HOE app too, but I don't think he's even close to being ready for algebra. I want to echo what the others have said here. My highest priority, in tandem with giving my son a rigorous, liberal education, is to teach him grit. I was in G&T programs growing up, was accelerated a grade, and basically coasted through school with easy As in "hard" classes until I got to law school. When I was finally challenged in a meaningful way, I was in my mid 20s and had developed a terrible perfectionist streak. Law school was a terrible time for me because I didn't have the emotional grit to deal with educational adversity in any serious way. Granted, I was lucky to have gone to a good enough law school that my (mediocre) grades didn't have a huge bearing on my marketability. But working 80-100 hour work weeks, in ridiculously competitive industries, being smart just wasn't enough. I sure wished then that I had learned to be comfortable with struggling. I want my son to struggle early and often, not to the point of debilitating or damaging him, and most certainly in an emotionally secure and loving environment, so that he learns the valuable life lesson that I experienced far too late.

[wapiti]

Yeah, it's ridiculous that I forgot that he has been asking for algebra. But I'm thinking of my boy and when you say "is he asking for acceleration" the first thing I remember is that he doesn't want to do his math for school and I think, no, he's not wanting to accelerate. He doesn't want to do his work.

 

Let's back up for a moment and define the problem you are trying to solve. (and it's quite possible this was discussed someplace but I missed it; please forgive me.  Hunting around on my kindle is annoying sometimes...)  So, he is bored with his SM.  What about ordinary acceleration, compacting until he hits a more comfortable, more interesting level?  Is radical acceleration really the superior choice, or just a camouflage to help him enjoy learning, albeit in a backwards way (i.e. learn the more complex and then fill in the holes)?  There is a wide world of options in between doing every problem on every page in every SM book on the one hand and radical acceleration on the other.

[8filltheheart]

Have you gotten HOE's Verbal Problems book? From what I understand, the app is simple equations. The Verbal bk is actual application problems. There is a huge leap from the equations to the verbal problems and from HOE to actual alg.

 

As far as the rest of the conversation, I'll admit I am completely lost. My kids accelerated themselves. I didn't do anything.

 

This may be completely irrelevant, but just thought I'd share that from this side of the process looking back (from my 12th grader's perspective here) I am glad he isn't any further ahead than he is. I just asked ds's his perspective, and he also says he is glad he isn't further ahead. I asked him why and he said.....his ability to deal with pressure for the classes and workload, ability to relate to peers in class (he is currently physics 367 and 303 and the kids in his classes range in age from 19 - 28 and he also has multiple math credits) and it impacts the way his age peers relate to him. He says it puts you in no man's land with a difficulty for anyone to relate to you. If he were younger, he feels like socially it would be harder. He thinks being older and more mature has made him be able to adapt to the situations where he wouldn't have been able to when he was younger. He says he is really glad we spent more time spreading wide, going deep, and doing more different things in general than getting further ahead. (This is in subjects in general. He has lots of subjects on his transcript that are atypical for high school students. These were things he loved and is passionate about, mostly philosophy and astronomy and that both have helped him think more logically and analytically. They aren't worth college credit. But they are worth way more than that! :) )

 

We have always made it a priority to make sure that our kids are kids first, but once you start taking college classes, you lose flexibility and time restraints are real. For example, he spent the past 2weekends doing work for his college classes. His physics lab required learning a new program and typing up the lab and he probably spent 10 hrs just on getting his lab write up done (it was 11 pgs typed) in addition, he had exams in both classes. At what age do you want them to face those kinds of commitments? Everyone has different answers, but they are real issues that need to be factored in to the end game.

 

Btw.....it is going to be hard enough for me when he leaves in the fall as an 18 yr old. I can't imagine having done it any sooner. I'm going to miss him like crazy. (Btw.....this is really near to my heart right now bc he and I are on a road trip tonight doing one of those college things. I can still see his shining 7 yr old face. It goes by way too quick.)

[Butler]

I'm on the other side of the process like 8filltheheart but am looking from another perspective. My son was radically accelerated and started college very young and I can't possibly see how we could have done anything different. He is happy, very successful, and fits in wonderfully with his peers. Radical acceleration was completely necessary and has worked perfectly. For this child. Only you (and your child) will know if it's right for your child.

 

I thnk you need to de-emphasize the age/grade part of the equation (math pun!). Your child should be learning what he is capable of learning. If that's studying a highschool text at 6 or learning precalculus at 9, so be it.

[lewelma]

My older boy is radically accelerated in math. Starting at age 7, I just let him work through SM at his own pace.  If he was getting all the word problems in the IP correct, I just let him move on.  He finished SM 2-5 is 2 years, and started AoPS Intro Algebra at 9.  But there certainly was no plan or timetable. 

 

I just took the approach of

1) skip the easy workbooks and textbook problems,

2) if he got the IP word problems correct we moved on.

 

That was it.

 

I only stumbled into this approach because I noticed that if I gave him the work book problems to do he took f..o.r.e.v.e.r to finish and cried a lot.  But if I gave him fewer, harder IP problems he got really excited and motivated and worked much harder.  Seemed pretty easy to just do what he wanted, because the material seemed to be sticking.  But I never tested him, or pretested him.

 

Honestly, I can't quite figure out what you are planning to do. 

 

Ruth in NZ

[lewelma]

 I am glad he isn't any further ahead than he is. I just asked ds's his perspective, and he also says he is glad he isn't further ahead. I asked him why and he said.....his ability to deal with pressure for the classes and workload, ability to relate to peers in class (he is currently physics 367 and 303 and the kids in his classes range in age from 19 - 28 and he also has multiple math credits) and it impacts the way his age peers relate to him. He says it puts you in no man's land with a difficulty for anyone to relate to you. If he were younger, he feels like socially it would be harder. He thinks being older and more mature has made him be able to adapt to the situations where he wouldn't have been able to when he was younger.

 

This is not good.  I hope I have not doomed my ds to the situation you describe.

[lewelma]

Oh, I should also warn you that my ds's math learning has not been equally paced.  It took him 3 years to finish the AoPS Intro Algebra book, but then given this rock solid foundation he was able to finish all this in 1.5 years:

 

AoPS Intro Geometry

AoPS Intro Counting

AoPS Intro Number theory

AoPS Intermediate Number theory

Problem solving/proof writing course using Art and Craft of Problem Solving

A month-long survey of precalculus (which was needed for the camp)

And successfully complete a 60 hour math exam for entrance into a very competitive math camp

 

So, just imagine if I had tried to push him faster than he wanted to go in AoPS intro algebra......  What if I had kept him to a time table?  What if I had stepped in taught him the material so that he could get through it faster? (rather than having him struggle through it on his own which is what he wanted to do)? This would not have been hot housing, just helping him along -- all very positive and supportive. So what if I had worried that his previous lightening pace was now turning into a snails pace?  (we are talking from double speed to half speed). What if I had told him to skip some of the challengers, or peak at the answers a bit to speed things along? None of it done in a pushy way of course, but do you think that he would have had such huge success last year?  I do not. 

 

He needed to do it his way.  He needed to take as long as it was going to take. And I did not push. Ever.

 

I am absolutely not suggesting you are pushing, but I am saying that we as parent teachers walk a very fine line, a very difficult line in accelerating. And sometimes the methods and results cannot be planned or predicted.

 

Ruth in NZ

[8filltheheart]

This is not good. I hope I have not doomed my ds to the situation you describe.

He does have good friends. I don't want you think he doesn't. It's just he mostly doesn't share completely who he is with anyone, neither his high school friends, nor the adults in his classes. He has one very close friend and he is a blessing in ds' s life, but he is the only one he is completely open with. On the college camps, if anything, he spends more time talking to professors bc there is where he is most uncomfortable letting people know his age. (The exception with being completely himself is at summer camps. They have been a blessing and he is online friends with a bunch of friends from camps over the yrs. But virtual is just not the same as hanging out.)

 

Yesterday he got back an exam in a class of 5 students(I'm not sure if that includes him or not) that had an avg of 70 and the professor announced that there had been one perfect paper. It was his. That is pretty much the normal scenario. It makes him self conscious that some of them are actually college seniors. I think out of all the classes he has taken, one student has ever known he was a high school student. Until this semester, he never told professors except when asking for letters of recommendation. This semester he has had to miss class for college stuff like interviews, and in his lab, for example, every lab is 12.5 percent of his grade, so he had to explain why he was going to miss class.

 

Fwiw, I think ds 's response was more along the lines of this has been great, but I don't think I would have liked it any younger than this vs this has been hard. (There is no way we could have not gone this approach by this pt, though, bc he did need more than being at home offered in math and physics. I'm just glad for me and him that it was that level at that age bc it has been a good fit generally speaking. This semester the classes are harder, he says mechanics 2 is the hardest class he has taken, and I think he was also thinking in terms of the pressure he feels in them if he had been younger.) Fwiw, your ds is the same age my ds was when he took intermediate. Ds's focus is more physics than math, though. He enjoys math, but he loves physics.

 

My approach with him was to let him do what he wanted to do and what he needed to do for the most part. There were times we told him, no, he could not do that bc we felt he was spending too much time on school and not enough time just hanging out with friends. The worst conflict we had over that was when he was in 8th and 9th. But, he has told us he is glad we did bc now he realizes we were right. He convinced our 9th grader not to add a 4th lang this yr (which she was adamant about doing and wouldn't listen to me) bc he told her she needed to spend more time with her friends. He recognizes her attitude toward languages as the same he had toward other things at the same age. She listened to him. ;).

 

But, honestly, now we are running into similar issues with dd and her friends. She is realizing that she has to be guarded about what she says. I'm not sure of the correct word choice....it isn't intimidated and it isn't threatened, but it is something personal......that they feel if she says anything about what she is doing in school. It is just a hard place to not be able to be completely you at 15 bc 15 is hard enough anyway.

[Luckymama]

But, honestly, now we are running into similar issues with dd and her friends. She is realizing that she has to be guarded about what she says. I'm not sure of the correct word choice....it isn't intimidated and it isn't threatened, but it is something personal......that they feel if she says anything about what she is doing in school. It is just a hard place to not be able to be completely you at 15 bc 15 is hard enough anyway.

This is exactly where we are with ddNewly14. It is very difficult.

[regentrude]

He does have good friends. I don't want you think he doesn't. It's just he mostly doesn't share completely who he is with anyone, neither his high school friends, nor the adults in his classes. He has one very close friend and he is a blessing in ds' s life, but he is the only one he is completely open with. On the college camps, if anything, he spends more time talking to professors bc there is where he is most uncomfortable letting people know his age....

Yesterday he got back an exam in a class of 5 students(I'm not sure if that includes him or not) that had an avg of 70 and the professor announced that there had been one perfect paper. It was his. That is pretty much the normal scenario. It makes him self conscious that some of them are actually college seniors. I think out of all the classes he has taken, one student has ever known he was a high school student. Until this semester, he never told professors except when asking for letters of recommendation. This semester he has had to miss class for college stuff like interviews, and in his lab, for example, every lab is 12.5 percent of his grade, so he had to explain why he was going to miss class.

 

Fwiw, I think ds 's response was more along the lines of this has been great, but I don't think I would have liked it any younger than this vs this has been hard.

 

I would like to chime in here and share DD's perspective. She started with her first college course at age 13 (not for college credit, but still doing all the assignments and tests and interacting with other students) and was extremely self conscious about her age. Since age 14 she has been formally enrolled and was always careful to keep her age private because she felt it changed the dynamics of interactions unnecessarily. Still, this has not always been possible. The instructors all knew about her age, since I know them personally, but most of the fellow students do not.

Academically she has been doing great, at the top of her class in engineering physics etc, and time management and organization have never been an issue. The issues are unrelated to academics.

She tutors for the university's tutoring program, and there she really does not want her clients to know her age; if they ask too many questions, she fudges the truth because otherwise it would undermine her authority, despite her being fully qualified.

It has only been in the last year, since she turned 16  that she made really good friends and got involved fully in campus and evening activities. Which is solely because she is now able to drive and no longer visibly singled out as the "kid". For her, this sense of belonging and being included is very important for her well being.

The students who knew about her age have always bee nice about it and supportive; she has not reported any negative encounters.

Oh, and age comes up when fellow students become interested in her as a girl. Conversations likes: What's your major? em, I'm in high school . So, you're 17 or so? Well, actually, I'm fifteen. At which point the guys do a 180 and run the other way (as they should) - but it is awkward.

So, while her age never affected her academic performance or work load management, it does become an issue in situations outside of class, and that  is simply something to anticipate and be aware of. She always looked older and blends in perfectly, so that helps.

 

 

 

 

But, honestly, now we are running into similar issues with dd and her friends. She is realizing that she has to be guarded about what she says. I'm not sure of the correct word choice....it isn't intimidated and it isn't threatened, but it is something personal......that they feel if she says anything about what she is doing in school. It is just a hard place to not be able to be completely you at 15 bc 15 is hard enough anyway.

 

Yes, it was most definitely an issue with DD's one same age friend. Her level of academic work absolutely caused friction and unkind words (as opposed to the college students who, to the best of my knowledge, never had mean things to say to her). She really did not have high school age friends, all her friends are several years older, in college, or grad school.

[Dmmetler]

I think everyone is kind of talking about the same thing here.

 

What Susan (and every acceleration advocate I know of, including those that propose full-grade acceleration) advocates is acceleration as a means to an end, not as the end. It's worth noting that Davidson didn't set up a college when they set up their charter school-they set up a high school that just happens to provide instruction on a level appropriate for PG (and only PG) teens. It's hard to find an organization more pro-acceleration than Davidson!

 

The goal of acceleration is to move ahead until the child reaches a level at which they are challenged. Period. That means taking into account the whole picture, including whether changing curriculum would provide more challenge, using a different book within the curriculum (like the IP vs the workbook in Singapore), or adding more material. Enrichment is never adding more on top of what the child knows. It's giving the child challenge to replace what they already know, at a reasonable pace for the child.

 

In a school setting, that really usually would mean working through material, because the classes and the people who can mentor a child through them that go into more advanced math aren't going to be available until the child is either able to do online classes independently or moves to college classes. The school can only provide what they have. The same is true at home-but in almost all cases, we have access to more. And therefore, when you read books by gifted advocates and researchers, you need to read them through that lens. Because I can tell you-when you TALK to these people, the first question is "What is the school situation"-and when they hear "she's homeschooled" there's a visible sigh of relief. I've had people at several GT organizations, states away from mine, tell me that there would be no hope for my DD in our local school system.

 

I haven't heard anyone say not to accelerate. After all, we're on this board for a reason. Only that the best guide isn't a book-it's your child.

 

 

 

 

[Dmmetler]

I think everyone is kind of talking about the same thing here.

 

What Susan (and every acceleration advocate I know of, including those that propose full-grade acceleration) advocates is acceleration as a means to an end, not as the end. It's worth noting that Davidson didn't set up a college when they set up their charter school-they set up a high school that just happens to provide instruction on a level appropriate for PG (and only PG) teens. It's hard to find an organization more pro-acceleration than Davidson!

 

The goal of acceleration is to move ahead until the child reaches a level at which they are challenged. Period. That means taking into account the whole picture, including whether changing curriculum would provide more challenge, using a different book within the curriculum (like the IP vs the workbook in Singapore), or adding more material. Enrichment is never adding more on top of what the child knows. It's giving the child challenge to replace what they already know, at a reasonable pace for the child.

 

In a school setting, that really usually would mean working through material, because the classes and the people who can mentor a child through them that go into more advanced math aren't going to be available until the child is either able to do online classes independently or moves to college classes. The school can only provide what they have. The same is true at home-but in almost all cases, we have access to more. And therefore, when you read books by gifted advocates and researchers, you need to read them through that lens. Because I can tell you-when you TALK to these people, the first question is "What is the school situation"-and when they hear "she's homeschooled" there's a visible sigh of relief. I've had people at several GT organizations, states away from mine, tell me that there would be no hope for my DD in our local school system.

 

I haven't heard anyone say not to accelerate. After all, we're on this board for a reason. Only that the best guide isn't a book-it's your child.

 

 

 

 

[Dmmetler]

On the age thing, I've seen it too, and I'm not even willing to give her 'tween status yet! One reason my DD embraced academic competitions so hard is that this is where she finds people who understand her. It's not winning or losing that's important-it's being around other people who understand that it can be fun to learn where words come from and what they meant in their original languages or to do hard math problems.  She very definitely, even at age 8-9, filters herself with people her age. She's also facing the double whammy that many of the slightly older kids that she got along with a year or two ago now are well into puberty and are pulling away from the "little kids"-and DD is seen as a "little kid" (and, honestly, isn't all that interested in most of what teen girls talk about). In some ways, the hardest relationships are the kids who are bright, and probably even gifted, but not nearly as advanced-because they "Get it'" to some degree, but she still can't fully share herself. (And, I admit, it's the parents of the kids who are bright who are often the hardest relationships for me, because they seem to believe that I somehow made DD the way she is by what I did. Honestly, I didn't. Everything I did with her when she was little, I would have done with any other baby, and once she started diverging from the path, everything I've done is in reaction to what she has done/demonstrated. I expect her achievements are more in spite of me than because of me!)

 

 

Now that she's started working with older students, it's hard the other way. The students who are willing to accept her on a field team basically treat her as a little sister or a mascot. She's allowed to be there, they'll be nice to her-but there's no way she's going to be hanging out with them afterwards. They're not friends. (Her mentor has commented that the college students and grad students are more mature acting when DD is there and more work gets done-they don't want to look bad in front of this super-serious little kid, I guess...) It doesn't seem to bother her yet-they're so much older that she doesn't see HERSELF as a peer yet and they're more "what I want to be when I grow up", but I can see that in a few years it may be hard for her to take. 

 

 

Academic acceleration can solve academic problems. It doesn't preclude other ones. I can see real merit in programs like the Davidson Academy, the PEG program at Mary Baldwin, Simon's Rock at Bard College, the state math/science high schools and so on which can provide both a same age peer group and an academic one. DD really doesn't get that much. Having said that, I didn't have such experiences much either until I was an adult-and it says a lot that I married someone who was one of the first true peers I'd ever had.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dmmetler]

On the age thing, I've seen it too, and I'm not even willing to give her 'tween status yet! One reason my DD embraced academic competitions so hard is that this is where she finds people who understand her. It's not winning or losing that's important-it's being around other people who understand that it can be fun to learn where words come from and what they meant in their original languages or to do hard math problems.  She very definitely, even at age 8-9, filters herself with people her age. She's also facing the double whammy that many of the slightly older kids that she got along with a year or two ago now are well into puberty and are pulling away from the "little kids"-and DD is seen as a "little kid" (and, honestly, isn't all that interested in most of what teen girls talk about). In some ways, the hardest relationships are the kids who are bright, and probably even gifted, but not nearly as advanced-because they "Get it'" to some degree, but she still can't fully share herself. (And, I admit, it's the parents of the kids who are bright who are often the hardest relationships for me, because they seem to believe that I somehow made DD the way she is by what I did. Honestly, I didn't. Everything I did with her when she was little, I would have done with any other baby, and once she started diverging from the path, everything I've done is in reaction to what she has done/demonstrated. I expect her achievements are more in spite of me than because of me!)

 

 

Now that she's started working with older students, it's hard the other way. The students who are willing to accept her on a field team basically treat her as a little sister or a mascot. She's allowed to be there, they'll be nice to her-but there's no way she's going to be hanging out with them afterwards. They're not friends. (Her mentor has commented that the college students and grad students are more mature acting when DD is there and more work gets done-they don't want to look bad in front of this super-serious little kid, I guess...) It doesn't seem to bother her yet-they're so much older that she doesn't see HERSELF as a peer yet and they're more "what I want to be when I grow up", but I can see that in a few years it may be hard for her to take. 

 

 

Academic acceleration can solve academic problems. It doesn't preclude other ones. I can see real merit in programs like the Davidson Academy, the PEG program at Mary Baldwin, Simon's Rock at Bard College, the state math/science high schools and so on which can provide both a same age peer group and an academic one. DD really doesn't get that much. Having said that, I didn't have such experiences much either until I was an adult-and it says a lot that I married someone who was one of the first true peers I'd ever had.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[La Texican]

 

This sounds like what I've been doing.

 

We do math on several levels.

 

#1 is exposure to higher level concepts through things like the LoF middle/high school series, Danica McKellar books, Hands-on Equations, Zacarro, Critical Thinking Press workbooks, etc. I allow calculators to be used for this work and also I provide assistance/"scaffolding" because the goal is exposure to concepts rather than mastering pencil & paper calculations.

 

#2 is working through Singapore (and now Beast Academy for DS) at a slightly accelerated pace (1-2 years above level). My kids use the IP & CWP books in lieu of the grade-level workbook, but I don't skip levels except for PM 6 (which is mostly review and the new concepts they've been previously exposed to via #1). They tend to go through the textbook chapter fairly quickly and then spend most of their time on IP & CWP.

 

#3 is math fact drill as needed. DD only needed it for the times tables. DS needed it for addition & subtraction as well. I re-order Singapore 3 to do the multiplication & division chapters last while my kids work on memorizing the times tables.

This sounds like what the book is describing doing.

 

 

What if I had stepped in taught him the material so that he could get through it faster? (rather than having him struggle through it on his own which is what he wanted to do)? This would not have been hot housing, just helping him along -- all very positive and supportive. So what if I had worried that his previous lightening pace was now turning into a snails pace?  (we are talking from double speed to half speed). What if I had told him to skip some of the challengers, or peak at the answers a bit to speed things along? None of it done in a pushy way of course, but do you think that he would have had such huge success last year?  I do not. 

 

He needed to do it his way.  He needed to take as long as it was going to take. And I did not push. Ever.

 

I am absolutely not suggesting you are pushing, but I am saying that we as parent teachers walk a very fine line, a very difficult line in accelerating. And sometimes the methods and results cannot be planned or predicted.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

Neither one is about a timeline, at all.  One the teacher provides a broad mishmash of mathmatics, scaffolds, teaches.  The other the student learns at their own true pace, without the previews, without the scaffolding.  I hope this illustrates what I'm reading as the difference now.  

 

 

The radical acceleration, the way I just read about it, is not a way to get somebody to hurry up, it is a way to select studies for somebody, (that's the part I want them taking over as they mature, of course I'll watch to see and it depends on them choosing something productive).  Radical Acceleration is like those computer programs that let you select something to learn next based on what you know now.  That's the dt-ip model.  It's not at all about a timeline.  I hope these two examples clear up what I'm understanding to be the radical acceleration model (not really about age or time) and the enrichment model.  These two posters have demonstrate the two methods well, from the way I understand them.  One teaches, one facilitates.

 

 

Now that I've made and read this thread I understand my options better and that I would only have to select between a primary models if dealing with a school, timeline, limited hours, and deadlines.  

[regentrude]

 Radical Acceleration is like those computer programs that let you select something to learn next based on what you know now.  That's the dt-ip model.  It's not at all about a timeline.  

 

Huh? Isn't that how one would home school in the first place, irrespective of whether the student was accelerated or delayed?

To me, that is basic common sense. The only reason there need to be "programs" and "dt-ip models" is that schools are not set up to teach like this. But with individualized instruction in a home education, that just comes naturally if you listen to the child.

 

I hope these two examples clear up what I'm understanding to be the radical acceleration model (not really about age or time) and the enrichment model.  These two posters have demonstrate the two methods well, from the way I understand them.  One teaches, one facilitates.

 

Maybe I misunderstand what you wrote, but I fail to see the dichotomy between radical acceleration/enrichment in the delivery method: teaching vs facilitating. IMO, teaching vs facilitating depends to a large degree on the student's age, learning style, parental background. Not everything accelerated has to be teaching and not everything enrichment is facilitated.

We have also gone through different phases with facilitation and independent learning in math for many years (algebra through precalc), to return to direct instruction for multivariable calculus.

[La Texican]

That's backwards. I consider what lewlma's doing to match what the book's describing acceleration model, and I would have called that facilitating a student in their own studies. What Crimson Wife is doing is enrichment-based model according to the book, I would have just called that teaching. I guess I'll just continue on with teaching because that's what I've been doing, if no one, even the author of the book , thinks you need to choose between the two if you're homeschooling.

[8filltheheart]

Huh? Isn't that how one would home school in the first place, irrespective of whether the student was accelerated or delayed?

To me, that is basic common sense. The only reason there need to be "programs" and "dt-ip models" is that schools are not set up to teach like this. But with individualized instruction in a home education, that just comes naturally if you listen to the child.

 

 

Maybe I misunderstand what you wrote, but I fail to see the dichotomy between radical acceleration/enrichment in the delivery method: teaching vs facilitating. IMO, teaching vs facilitating depends to a large degree on the student's age, learning style, parental background. Not everything accelerated has to be teaching and not everything enrichment is facilitated.

We have also gone through different phases with facilitation and independent learning in math for many years (algebra through precalc), to return to direct instruction for multivariable calculus.

This is why I don't understand the conversation. I don't think in terms of grade levels with my kids. We just do whatever is appropriate at the time. When I hear the words "radically accelerate," I am probably wrong, but I just feel a sense of urgency or rushing or teacher planning vs just doing whatever they are ready for. That hasn't looked anything the same for any of my kids. I can't predict the future yrs. I just meet them where they are this one.

[Butler]

This is not really on topic of the original post, I just wanted to give any parents who worry about the social aspects of acceleration another viewpoint. Acceleration, as I mentioned above, has been nothing but positive for my son. He has not encountered any of the jealousies or "mascot" type of situation described by some. His age has never, from the very beginning, been an issue for him.

 

While he didn't really have friends on the college campus at 12 when he started taking classes, by 13 he was organizing and heading up study groups. It wasn't until he requested LOR's from two of his professors at 14 that they even realized he was still technically a high school student. When he started at his current university at 15 he immediately started the graduate level matn sequences and he had no problems making friends with the graduate students. He was even elected an officer in the math organization in his university this year. He regularly attends out of state conferences with upper level undergrads. They are all aware of his age but I have seen him with them and no one treats him as a mascot or anything but a peer.

 

He is extremely mature and always has been. He has traveled by air alone. Gone through customs and immigration alone to attend summer residential research programs. I have no qualms about him staying at hotels for various workshops, etc. alone. Physically he has always looked older than his chronological age. And his abilities are extreme. I have never had any fears about the path he has chosen. And I don't have any regrets. This sounds braggish but the point I'm trying to make is that this particular child has had no problems related to being much younger than everyone else. And while this is in some part due to his intelligence, I think most of it is due to his personality. I'm not sure I'm explaining this well!

 

So while I can understand the problems that can arise with a radically accelerated child, I just want to assure parents that sometimes it just really goes smoothly.

[Barbara H]

Isn't that how one would home school in the first place, irrespective of whether the student was accelerated or delayed?

To me, that is basic common sense. The only reason there need to be "programs" and "dt-ip models" is that schools are not set up to teach like this. But with individualized instruction in a home education, that just comes naturally if you listen to the child.

 

 

I agree 100%.

 

I have read Developing Mathematical Talent and I just didn't find a lot that made sense in the context of our homeschool.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that highly gifted students are highly asynchronous. It is NORMAL for any student to be studying the same subject on many different levels at the same time, but this tends to be even more pronounced in asynchronous learners. So, it may well be the case that your six year old - likes Sesame Street songs about numbers, understands basic algebra but hasn't learned their multiplication tables, is able to understand most of what they see in a physics video for college students and can think of brilliant questions on very deep and abstract topics, can enjoy a high school level logic textbook, gets too tired out to do a grade level worksheet for more than 10 minutes and can spend hours making incredible fractals using software..... That can all be happening at the same point in development when you homeschool because homeschooling can support that kind of very asynchronous development and learning.

 

It may not be comfortable to parents because we like to be on top of things and plan and we don't want to feel like our kids will have gaps. But, the reality is that math isn't just a straight linear progression through mastering a checklist of skills. Boiling math down into a lot of tests and monitoring of progress is an easy way to kill the joy and to make asynchronous development problematic in a way that it doesn't need to be when you are homeschooling.

[quark]

Neither one is about a timeline, at all.  One the teacher provides a broad mishmash of mathmatics, scaffolds, teaches.  The other the student learns at their own true pace, without the previews, without the scaffolding.  I hope this illustrates what I'm reading as the difference now.  

 

The radical acceleration, the way I just read about it, is not a way to get somebody to hurry up, it is a way to select studies for somebody, (that's the part I want them taking over as they mature, of course I'll watch to see and it depends on them choosing something productive).  Radical Acceleration is like those computer programs that let you select something to learn next based on what you know now.  That's the dt-ip model.  It's not at all about a timeline.  I hope these two examples clear up what I'm understanding to be the radical acceleration model (not really about age or time) and the enrichment model.  These two posters have demonstrate the two methods well, from the way I understand them.  One teaches, one facilitates.

 

The difficulty with a word like "acceleration" let alone "radical acceleration" is that it's hard not to say it or write it without thinking about time. When I think of acceleration I naturally think of going faster. By compacting and following kiddo's needs we were going faster (and deeper/ wider too because we did a few strands of math a day)...but the more I thought of it as acceleration the more loaded the whole idea became. There was worry and doubt about gaps especially. The more I thought of it as following the child, the more I could relax and be confident that gaps and less-than-satisfactorily-solid learning will take care of themselves eventually when we spiraled back to those concepts at some point. That's why I suggested not thinking of it as acceleration or radical acceleration but just letting it happen naturally. The way I understood it was that you were asking about radically accelerating using a dt-pi model (one I hadn't used) and when it is put that way it sounds like it is coming from the parent, not the child.

 

I too don't see a dichotomy between "own pace" and "scaffolding". Or one between "facilitating" and "teaching". It's all one fluid, seamless relationship. For example, even while facilitating, I might teach a skill because the lack of that skill might stand in the way of maximum understanding. While facilitating you might also role model certain behaviors for child to learn mindfully, methodically so he receives the most value from what he is using.

 

I can see how a teacher with 25 kids will have difficulty doing both but not so when homeschooling. I hope you find what works for your children!

 

[quark]

This is not really on topic of the original post, I just wanted to give any parents who worry about the social aspects of acceleration another viewpoint. Acceleration, as I mentioned above, has been nothing but positive for my son. He has not encountered any of the jealousies or "mascot" type of situation described by some. His age has never, from the very beginning, been an issue for him.

 

While he didn't really have friends on the college campus at 12 when he started taking classes, by 13 he was organizing and heading up study groups. It wasn't until he requested LOR's from two of his professors at 14 that they even realized he was still technically a high school student. When he started at his current university at 15 he immediately started the graduate level matn sequences and he had no problems making friends with the graduate students. He was even elected an officer in the math organization in his university this year. He regularly attends out of state conferences with upper level undergrads. They are all aware of his age but I have seen him with them and no one treats him as a mascot or anything but a peer.

 

He is extremely mature and always has been. He has traveled by air alone. Gone through customs and immigration alone to attend summer residential research programs. I have no qualms about him staying at hotels for various workshops, etc. alone. Physically he has always looked older than his chronological age. And his abilities are extreme. I have never had any fears about the path he has chosen. And I don't have any regrets. This sounds braggish but the point I'm trying to make is that this particular child has had no problems related to being much younger than everyone else. And while this is in some part due to his intelligence, I think most of it is due to his personality. I'm not sure I'm explaining this well!

 

So while I can understand the problems that can arise with a radically accelerated child, I just want to assure parents that sometimes it just really goes smoothly.

 

Thank you so much for writing this. I think you explained this very well. It helps to hear all sides. It really does. I am very grateful you took the time.

[regentrude]

The difficulty with a word like "acceleration" let alone "radical acceleration" is that it's hard not to say it or write it without thinking about time. When I think of acceleration I naturally think of going faster.

 

Well, that is exactly what acceleration means: going faster. It makes no sense doing "acceleration" (let alone "radical" acceleration) without the goal of going faster (compared to whatever standard)

 

So, the OP claiming "radical acceleration is not about the timeline" makes no sense, because without a timeline, the term acceleration is meaningless.

 

(In a home school where children can learn at their own pace, the concept of a timeline and of acceleration becomes rather meaningless, unless one compares with artificial standards from the outside world, or until one must merge the child's education with the outside world because the need can no longer be satisfied at home, like early college)

[MomatHWTK]

This is not good.  I hope I have not doomed my ds to the situation you describe.

 

 

I went to college a semester early and I was very socially immature. It was a bad mix for my emotional and social well being.  I did OK in class and no one really cared about my age in class, but outside class I was clueless and taken advantage of often (long story).  My advice would be to put as much effort into social and emotional training as you do academics.  Make sure your child knows about the pitfalls of jealousy, competitiveness, flirtation, etc.  Make sure that he understands that not everyone approaches education and college with the same mindset. Basically- teach street smarts. ;)

 

I was a first generation college student and may be on the edge of the spectrum, so it is possible that I would have never picked up those social skills absent direct instruction.  Nonetheless, it can't hurt to make sure the EQ at least approaches the IQ for a young student. 

[MomatHWTK]

I join the ranks of those saying "huh?" to the radical acceleration concept.  We homeschool, if my student needs to slow down we slow down; if my student is ready to move forward, we move forward.  I have a range of teaching materials and resources on hand and I choose what to teach based on what I think the student is ready to learn.  I guess if I had one student and was just getting started (and wasn't a book hoarder) I'd have to go through the process of selecting items to have on hand. But as it is, I have Pre-K through college either on the shelves or available online.  Just teach and keep teaching. :)

[La Texican]

So, I'm kidding myself if I think unchecked accelerated learning can lead to anything besides early college? I guess I just kept reading here that it's okay to accelerate without planning for early college because there's so much stuff available to learn, there's always something else to study.