SoCal Sandra Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 We homeschool through a California public charter school. When my son scored a perfect math score on standardized testing back in second grade I asked the school about support for gifted students. I was told to chat with another mom who had a gifted child, and that was it. Now, after years of similar performance in all categories I am concerned that my son isn't being challenged enough. If there is evidence of giftedness, does the law require testing of a child who attends a public charter school that is not a brick and mortar school? Since we have been homeschooling, I never felt like we needed the label "gifted" even though performance and family history make the designation likely. Ds will attend a brick and mortar public high school, which prompts a second question. Is it even worth worrying about if he will leave the charter school that he is with now? TIA for any info, advice or comments you can offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Gifted testing would depend on the state and potentially the district. In our district, the charters perform the same testing as all the district schools. My kids attend a B&M charter and the only gifted testing is the CogAT in 3rd grade. That group ability screening is not a particularly sensitive test and probably misses as many gifted kids as it catches. We have done individual private testing. If you are homeschooling, isn't his challenge level entirely up to you? I don't know why you'd need the label or what the charter could possibly do for you while you are homeschooling, unless you need scores for some sort of special private program such as a gifted summer camp. I doubt a gifted label means anything at all for the high school, though I would research things like how placement is decided and what the math tracks are. (There might be placement tests for math and foreign language, for example.) Some of that info might be available on the high school's website; if not, I'd make calls and/or send emails to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busymotherof4 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I am working through a CA charter and we have a ton of freedom in choosing the level of challenge. We haven't felt the need for testing. The only problem we have is my children's transcripts don't reflect the level of work done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatMomof3 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 You also might want to look into what high school classes are available for middle school grades. With the new push of Common Core (well I assume this is the reason), Algebra is no longer considered a high school course in CA. Then make sure the high school that your ds is going to will accept these credits, for instance do they need to be a-g courses? My oldest will be taking High School Geometry in 8th grade, as well as, High School Spanish in 7th and 8th grade. The high school that she MIGHT go to will accept these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 If there is evidence of giftedness, does the law require testing of a child who attends a public charter school that is not a brick and mortar school? It falls under the IEP category if there is evidence of giftedness. The state funds the gifted program if it meets the state's criteria. However my school district drop the GATE program in 2010 due to lack of funding the same year that they had to layoff teachers. Class size for my older went from 20 to 30 students in K-3rd in his school. There is no legal requirement for the school or district to provide a GATE program or my neighbors would have demanded it. My district's high school couldn't care less how "gifted" my kids are if they go back to public high school. My kids will have to take all the placement tests that students who moved into the district take anyway. If you intend to put your child back in B&M high school, the best is to speak to the high school's guidance counselor to see what tests are required. My oldest will be taking High School Geometry in 8th grade, as well as, High School Spanish in 7th and 8th grade. The high school that she MIGHT go to will accept these. I thought high school languages taken before high school will be on the high school transcript but not counted in the 2 years of foreign/world language required for California? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatMomof3 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I thought high school languages taken before high school will be on the high school transcript but not counted in the 2 years of foreign/world language required for California? She can be tested out and will still have to take 2 more years of Spanish. But having 4 years of Spanish look better then just 2 and it really is needed especially in SoCal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndOfOrdinary Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I am working through a CA charter and we have a ton of freedom in choosing the level of challenge. We haven't felt the need for testing. The only problem we have is my children's transcripts don't reflect the level of work done. We are in WA and had the same experience. Testing was just the annual testing everyone did (MAP) and then differentiation came from us. He was called a 3rd grader regardless of what he produced and test scores didn't much matter. It was a problem for me to some degree. His transcript would never show how far ahead he was. In reality, no one would ever look at it, but if we transferred to a more traditional program we would have had a major battle on our hands. The subject which would have been the hardest was math. We could have had him read different novels and he could write openly, but his transcript never reflected middle school math. I would begin looking at outside testing or programs if you know you are wanting to transfer. Anything that is 3rd party and shows another individual feels he has completed advanced work. Depending on how close you are to high school, you might want to go in and ask them how they handle the situation or what you might need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 She can be tested out and will still have to take 2 more years of Spanish. But having 4 years of Spanish look better then just 2 and it really is needed especially in SoCal. Understood. My kids would be allowed to test out of Level 1 and Level 2 of the high school language but would still have to take Level 3 and Level 4 or AP for the two year requirement. We could have had him read different novels and he could write openly, but his transcript never reflected middle school math. Why not? The report card/transcript my kid gets will show he is taking prealgebra and algebra, middle school earth science this year as a 4th grader. His last year 3rd grade report card shows he took 5th and 6th grade math in a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Are you the one choosing the curriculum with the charter stipend, or is this CAVA or one of the charters that require you to use their curriculum? If you're in the latter kind of charter, I would strongly encourage you to switch to a flexible charter with a stipend (assuming that's an option for you). Our charter lets us use whatever grade level material is appropriate. If there's something on the state standards for a particular grade that my kids haven't previously covered, I will spend a brief period of time covering that (states & capitals was one that we did to keep the charter happy). My kids test well so the charter pretty much lets me do whatever I want with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildiris Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Entering high school without the "gifted" label should not pose a problem particularly if your student demonstrates his talents in classes. Most high schools will want to know what materials you used and subjects covered in order to place your child in the right high school classes. My DD would have been considered gifted, but the independent charter school we went to did not offer anything for gifted students. It was up to me to challenge her. Her high STAR scores made applying to gifted programs easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rai B. Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 The law in California no longer requires any school to test for giftedness at all. A GATE (Gifted And Talented) designation will follow a student through school, so it could help with getting placed in appropriate classes if you transfer at the beginning of high school and don't have official honors level courses in middle school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 You also might want to look into what high school classes are available for middle school grades. With the new push of Common Core (well I assume this is the reason), Algebra is no longer considered a high school course in CA. California people, is this really correct? This doesn't sound right to me, since CC has been pushing in the other direction, anti-acceleration. (Not that I care, as we're not in CA anyway...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nart Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 California people, is this really correct? This doesn't sound right to me, since CC has been pushing in the other direction, anti-acceleration. (Not that I care, as we're not in CA anyway...) Algebra was removed from the 8th grade standards in CA and moved to 9th grade. Now districts have the option of offering Alg., Geo., Alg 2 sequence starting in 9th grade OR Integrated Math1, 2, and 3 starting in 9th grade for most students. My school district just opted for Integrated Math. My nephew is in 8th grade and in Alg. 1. I just looked at what courses he can enroll in for high school and he has to take Integrated Math 1, which is partially a repeat of Alg. 1. What hasn't been decided, and I think each district will independently decide, is what to do with accelerated students. There is a chart of three different options the dept. of Ed. has proposed. All three list just one year of acceleration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Algebra was removed from the 8th grade standards in CA and moved to 9th grade. Now districts have the option of offering Alg., Geo., Alg 2 sequence starting in 9th grade OR Integrated Math1, 2, and 3 starting in 9th grade for most students. My school district just opted for Integrated Math. My nephew is in 8th grade and in Alg. 1. I just looked at what courses he can enroll in for high school and he has to take Integrated Math 1, which is partially a repeat of Alg. 1. What hasn't been decided, and I think each district will independently decide, is what to do with accelerated students. There is a chart of three different options the dept. of Ed. has proposed. All three list just one year of acceleration. The single year of acceleration is presumably due to the CC's "strong recommendation" against any acceleration prior to 7th and any algebra (or integrated math course 1) prior to 8th. What I was asking about was the Catmomof3's statement that algebra 1 is no longer a high school course in CA. It would seem that it most certainly still is a high school course (as it should be) even though certain districts might opt for the integrated sequence in place of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Sandra Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 Thank you for the advice, everyone. Although there is flexibility in most things, the school is very rigid about which curricula can be designated as Algebra on the transcript. My son wanted the Art of Problem Solving as his official curriculum but the school said the transcript would designate AOPS Algebra as math and he would get no credit for Algebra when he goes to public high school if he uses AOPS Algebra. So son is using Chalk Dust Algebra, which is approved. Although AOPS is still on our shelf for supplementation and fun, doing both as full programs is too much. It would be nice if some differentiation were available for bright students, but it sounds like that is a privilege, and not a right in California. I haven't been able to find too much information on that issue. Thanks again, all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Although there is flexibility in most things, the school is very rigid about which curricula can be designated as Algebra on the transcript. My son wanted the Art of Problem Solving as his official curriculum but the school said the transcript would designate AOPS Algebra as math and he would get no credit for Algebra when he goes to public high school if he uses AOPS Algebra. So son is using Chalk Dust Algebra, which is approved. Although AOPS is still on our shelf for supplementation and fun, doing both as full programs is too much. Could he not use AoPS and then simply do the Chalkdust chapter reviews or tests as a review when he's finished? Or even just do the Chalkdust final exam? Or not at all? Isn't the high school going to require a placement test anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndOfOrdinary Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Why not? The report card/transcript my kid gets will show he is taking prealgebra and algebra, middle school earth science this year as a 4th grader. His last year 3rd grade report card shows he took 5th and 6th grade math in a year. Our charter in WA only listed the subject for grades 8 and under. He was listed as taking "math" or "language arts." Only if the school was to look at the advanced breakdown of his specific learning plan would they see that he was really taking Pre-Algerbra. Even then, I had to push really hard to have then accept an individualized learning plan and not provide a generic common core style breakdown for the average 3rd grade student. This is one of the reasons we left; they were fine if my kid was gifted, just as long as he showed up on paper as average because it required nothing of them. When we wanted differentiated instruction to show, it started to be a problem. As far as the school was concerned, they had no gifted program and no gifted students. Third grade was third grade was third grade. Every student looked the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Our charter's guidance counselor said that it didn't matter which math program DD used as long as we did not seek high school credit for the course. When she gets to 9th, she would simply enroll in whichever math course is appropriate (we're aiming for Algebra 2 or above). At that point, we'd have to worry about making sure the math is U.C. a-g approved. If we wanted to have her get high school credit now, then we'd have to pick an approved program and have it supervised by a "highly qualified teacher". However, both Algebra 1 and Geometry are typically middle school courses for honors track kids in my district (75% of the kids take Algebra 1 before 9th and 20% take Geometry before 9th). So I see no point in jumping through the hoops to try to get high school credit for those. If she were ready for Algebra 2 in 8th (possible but not super-likely), then I'd probably try to have her take that for high school credit since that typically *IS* a high school level course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Sandra Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 Thank you for raising these issues. I plan to contact the high school to learn whether or not the curriculum really matters. If all that matters is the placement results, then I will look at switching to AOPS Algebra for the rest of the year. Thanks again, everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busymotherof4 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Before the switch to integrated math our local high schools gave all 8 th graders a math placement test. This year they switched to integrated math. All 9th graders have to take it. There is a honors level but still it is repeating much of Alg 1. integrated math is a sticking point for our family. All the local schools and most charters have switched to it. I have heard several horror stories about current 9th graders. I think we will stick with our charter as they have been very flexible but are still helping us meet a-g requirements. I just need to figure out if they will help with NCAA requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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