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Book a Week in 2014 - BW6


Robin M
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8. "The Good Knight" by Sarah Woodbury.  Read this one from my phone while waiting for the kids in various locations.  Thanks to whoever on here pointed out the free download.

 

7. "Speaking From Among the Bones" by Alan Bradley.

6. "The Continuous Conversion" by Brad Wilcox (LDS).

5. "The Continuous Atonement" by Brad Wilcox (LDS).

4. "Finding Hope" by S. Michael Wilcox (LDS).

3. "When Your Prayers Seem Unanswered" by S. Michael Wilcox (LDS).

2. "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" by J.K. Rowling. (Read-aloud)

1. "The Peacegiver: How Christ Offers to Heal Our Hearts and Homes" by James L. Ferrell (LDS).

 

It was a tough year for us last year (steadily worsening mental health issues in DH and DS), and it doesn't look to be over yet, so at least for the beginning of the year, I'll be reading not so much for intellectual challenge or entertainment, but more for, um, I don't know, emotional and spiritual recentering. I don't know what else to call it. Also for information needed to understand what's going on. I don't plan to sum up what I'm reading for a while, just list the title and author, and since many will probably be by authors from my faith (LDS), I'll put that in parenthesis when it applies as well.

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So, for a back-to-the-books topic, someone posted a comment/link about Isabel Allende a week or two ago. Was it VC? Someone else??? I totally can't remember, but the link was in re: to Allende's newest book Ripper. Just got the library's copy & I have a brand spankin' new one! It's the first book I've had my hands on this year that has copyright 2014 in the front.  :001_smile:  Not sure that I'll have time to get to it before it's due back (because I already have teetering stacks & because of the Olympics), nor am I sure I will be brave enough to read it (it seems a little creepy). Time will tell...

 

I mentioned that she was on Diane Rehm promoting her new book (here) because it came to my attention during the program that her novel The House of the Spirits is being challenged in a school district in NC.

 

Oooo...I just found a blog entry on this:

 

 

 

If I were a student at a North Carolina high school— well, I’m too darn old but never mind—I would be dying to get my hands on a copy of The House of the Spirits just to see what all the fuss is about! I mean, if you want to get kids reading, tell them they can’t and see what happens. I sure hope that’s how things play out for the kids in the honors English class at Watauga High School in Boone, North Carolina, where a group of parents tried to ban Isabel’s book from the curriculum. (So far, thank goodness, they have been unsuccessful. Last fall the county board of education voted unanimously to uphold its use in the classroom but there’s another hearing on the subject in a couple of weeks.)

 

 

The rest is found here.

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 I can't quite put my finger on the difference in books between a female/male experience vs. human experience.  The closest I can come is:  some books are self-consciously about a particular experience while some are not.  The Age of Innocence was already mentioned.  That to me is a classic example of great writing about the human experience that "covers" (for lack of a better term) both male and female.   It lacks something - not sure what but something, maybe it's that self-consciousness - that I found present in The Awakening.  I've never gotten through any book by Virginia Woolf and maybe that's why.   Maybe it's because Wharton was just a better writer and just better at describing human experience in its variety.    Maybe Anna Karenina is the same way.   Maybe it's more of an emotional response and thus harder to explain. 

 

I am trying to think of books other than war stories which are self-consciously male - war (really I am talking about combat) has been the realm of men.  I guess I don't read books that are specifically about the male experience.  The closest I can come is Hemingway, but I don't think of his books as self-consciously male. 

 

 

That's funny, I always think of Hemingway as being so self-consciously male. 

 

While there are many people who say that literature has relentlessly cataloged the male experience until the last hundred years or so and female authors obsess a bit about the female experience because of that, I'm not sure I see many *good* authors that only capture one experience or the other. (There are plenty of bad authors who can't write believably of the opposite gender, but I don't find their books embody their own gender either. They're just lacking.)

 

I find it interesting to find an author (male or otherwise) who seems to capture a specifically male aesthetic or tone. Men seem to participate less in self-conscious gender-ism (if that's even a word). 

 

I was having this discussion with my husband @5 years ago and I think I pulled out Hemingway's In Our Time, Norman Maclean's A River Runs Through It, and Cormac McCarthy's All the Pretty Horses as examples of a particularly (American) male aesthetic. I'll have to think about how I framed that. The whys escape me. 

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I've finally dragged my way through the Dalai Lama's 'Beyond Religion: Ethics for a Whole World.' It was one of a measly *five* books I bought all for myself last year and I was *so* disappointed!  :crying:  (I very nearly did cry about it.)

 

I'm truly sorry, especially since I recommended it. I guess it just goes to prove what is good for one person isn't necessarily good for another.

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Many of the Nick Adams' short stories (Hemingway) have a dearth of women but that lack does not seem problematic to me.  When Nick is in Northern Michigan fishing, he may see women or girls in town but otherwise he is often on his own. The stories have a masculine sense to me because they are coming of age stories, tales of a young man figuring out who he is.  Yet I loved the Nick Adams stories as a young woman in part because I loved the sense of place Hemingway developed in those tales.  The experiences of Nick Adams were not my experiences yet there was something in those stories that spoke to me.

 

Tolkien develops a keen sense of place in his novels but the dearth of women in Middle Earth has always troubled me.  Admittedly, I barely made it through The Hobbit at age fourteen.  I have never had the desire to read LoTR--so perhaps I have no business mentioning Tolkien.

 

Moritmer writes in The Time Travelers Guide to Elizabethan England that men look younger at that time because they do not begin to grow facial hair until the age of 22! (Just what is going on with our hormones, people?) I'm sure that he will have much to say about Shakespeare, but the comment on the lack of facial hair had me thinking about the young boys/men who played Shakespeare's female characters.  Which in turn reminded me of the all female cast of Much Ado that I saw in London at The Globe.  Initially we were aware that there were women playing the men's roles--fake mustaches or beards and all.  But within minutes we were swept into another world and it simply did not matter if the actor was male or female.  What mattered was that the troupe was magnificent! 

 

And that to me is an important message.

 

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I read just one small book with two long poems and an introduction: Requiem and Poem Without a Hero

 

Here's what I posted on Goodreads after reading it:

 

Honestly, there's just too much here I don't understand. And Russian history is not high on my list of topics to study - not because it's unworthy of study, of course. It's too far removed from my own life and is not often important to the understanding of what I read. Anyway, it would take a lot of time and effort - researching reference after reference and allusion after allusion - for me to really understand these poems. What more, Akhmatova admits "Poem Without a Hero" is difficult for people to understand when she says, "I frequently hear of certain absurd interpretations of Poem Without a Hero. And I have been advised to make it clearer." This she declined to do, so I don't feel too bad saying I find parts of it unclear and difficult to understand.

 

Regardless, some of the beauty of these poems is apparent. Some of the content is explained well enough in the introduction, and some ideas provoke emotion because they are universal. For instance, I think we can all understand and respond to the lines (from "Poem Without a Hero"):

 

As in the gut of the dolphin

I saved myself from the shark

 

Even if our dolphin is not her dolphin, and our shark is not her shark, we all have our own sharks and dolphins. And these lines from "Requiem" are clear, haunting and transportive.

 

There I learned how faces fall apart,

How fear looks out from under the eyelids,

How deep are the hieroglyphics

Cut by suffering on people's cheeks.

 

Like the hieroglyphics on the cheeks of the suffering, her words leave their mark on the reader.

 

Thank you for taking the time to articulate your thoughts with such honesty and poetry. I'm even more intrigued about a deeper delve into AA after reading your review.

 

Yeah, I do believe the Orson Scott Card, that undercover feminist, calls that phenomenon a....

 

 

 

 

... hive.   :laugh:

 

:lol: Although I have never read any of his work before. I think my dh likes him.

 

I've finally dragged my way through the Dalai Lama's 'Beyond Religion: Ethics for a Whole World.' It was one of a measly *five* books I bought all for myself last year and I was *so* disappointed!  :crying:  (I very nearly did cry about it.)

 

I can't really 'like' your post since your experience was so disappointing but I do very much like your post :D What were the other four books you bought?

 

 

I find it interesting to find an author (male or otherwise) who seems to capture a specifically male aesthetic or tone. Men seem to participate less in self-conscious gender-ism (if that's even a word). 

 

Oh my! You can't leave me hanging. Please elaborate on the bolded 'cause I don't understand and without understanding I have to say I disagree in a very visceral way. Enlighten me, please :D

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I'm truly sorry, especially since I recommended it. I guess it just goes to prove what is good for one person isn't necessarily good for another.

 

Oh, don't be. One can't be expected to investigate another person's entire spiritual and emotional upbringing before recommending a book.  :lol:

 

The one part I found interesting was his description of the Buddhist "trivium"! I may well write that out to hang above my altar some time. Like, when I've made some progress towards mastering nice handwriting. :p

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't really 'like' your post since your experience was so disappointing but I do very much like your post  :D What were the other four books you bought?

 

I cannot tell you. They are lost somewhere in one of the scary piles on my dresser or perhaps the scary pile that is my bedside table. The joy of rediscovering and excavating them will parallel the fun I enjoyed in having bought them in the first place. It is important to have something to look forward to in life.

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Many of the Nick Adams' short stories (Hemingway) have a dearth of women but that lack does not seem problematic to me.  When Nick is in Northern Michigan fishing, he may see women or girls in town but otherwise he is often on his own. The stories have a masculine sense to me because they are coming of age stories, tales of a young man figuring out who he is.  Yet I loved the Nick Adams stories as a young woman in part because I loved the sense of place Hemingway developed in those tales.  The experiences of Nick Adams were not my experiences yet there was something in those stories that spoke to me.

 

Tolkien develops a keen sense of place in his novels but the dearth of women in Middle Earth has always troubled me.  Admittedly, I barely made it through The Hobbit at age fourteen.  I have never had the desire to read LoTR--so perhaps I have no business mentioning Tolkien.

 

 

I remember loving 'The Old Man and the Sea' as a teenager. What I loved was the feeling of austerity, the spareness in both the writing and the environment. Reading that book felt like turning a small piece of driftwood over and over in the hands of my mind, feeling the worn-smooth wood, the places where wind and sea and reduced it to an exploration of planed essence.

 

I live amongst a tribe of LOTR fans. I cannot find the enthusiasm to actually pick up the books and read them through though I have spent many car commutes listening and re-listening to Rob Inglis's masterful readings. And I can deeply appreciate Tolkien's mastery at weaving a multi-dimensional world but the lack of female characters (apart from a few notable exceptions) I think has something to do with my disinterest in going further with the books. Though I do have to admit to having a bit of a crush on Tom Bombadil...

 

 
 
 

 

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I find it interesting to hear the comments on the LotR books as Tolkien seems to have a rabid group of die-hard fans. I have never completely understood the hoopla over the LotR books (including The Hobbit). The Hobbit is fine. I can appreciate some of the LotR features, including the world-building (which is quite impressive), but those books are just so dark, dark, dark. I tried reading the trilogy in college & made it about 1/2 way through before deciding that it was so despairingly dark that I did not (could not) continue.

 

I have seen the movies. Originally I went because my dh really wanted to see it; I had no real opinion either way as it was just not something on my radar. I almost got up & walked out when the orcs showed up. I still do not think I have ever seen more terrifying creatures in a movie. I stayed & even watched the sequel movies too. They were fine but nothing that I want to see over & over.

 

Dd loves the LotR movies. She also loves The Hobbit movie & sequel. I saw the first Hobbit movie & it was ok. (Am I the only one who finds the long songs boring?) I did not go see the sequel that was out recently -- no interest. And, even though The Hobbit is supposed to be a more friendly book, I still find some of the scenarios (in the book) & creatures (in the movies) to be gross. Just gross. I guess I just don't understand the need/use for that??? (Yes, I'm in my old fogey mode now, I know.)

 

I don't get the Tolkien love. :confused1:

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I love Tolkien the books and movies, but it isn't for everyone. You know that sad feeling you sometimes get when a book ends? I had that the worst after reading the LoTR trilogy. Once I had finished all three books it was like saying goodbye to a good friend. :sad:  You might try listening to an audio version. Tolkien can be very wordy and does take some time to get into the books.

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Yes!  I'm about a third of the way through it right now (I really need to set a few things aside so I can *finish* one of these long books!)  So far it is fascinating.. a little odd, and with a very interesting narrator.

 

It just came out, I believe, so your library might buy it for you... mine has been absolutely splendid lately.  (I do feel very smug that there are now 21 holds on this particular book that they bought for me... I hope the other *cough* dozens and dozens of books they've gotten for me are equally popular, and that they then buy even more of my suggestions.  (Though they have to be getting tired of processing all of them)

Please let me know your final thoughts about it, Eliana.

 

Haha about the library. As much as I use mine, support mine, campaign for mine, they have never, ever bought a book I've suggested they buy. :glare: (It must be because I don't request Lee Child or John Grisham books. Grumble... grumble....) It must be nice to be in a system where you could actually get your library to buy something you recommend. I'm so jealous!!!

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I finished Dead Mountain a couple of days ago but haven't had time to write about it yet.  I had avoided the article Stacia linked and I'm glad that I did because SPOILERS!! it gives away the whole plot of the book in the flippin' headline.   :glare:    As it is, I had no knowledge of any of the backstory of this 50 year old mystery and so went into the book clueless about exactly what had happened, who it happened to, and what the prevailing theories were.

 

The unsolved case is incredible in an X-files sort of way, and those parts of the book were very exciting.  However, this was meant to be one of those adventure-type books where the author is on a trek to retrace the steps of the victims and investigators, and poof! solve the mystery.  Imho, the author inserted himself into the story a bit too much, and those parts really irritated me.  Plus the theory that he comes up with (the headline / spoiler from Daily Mail) is kind of out there.  I'm not sure I buy it.  In fact, I'm pretty sure I don't.  

 

Anyhoo, Dead Mountain was an ok quickie read and worth the $$ I paid for it.  I never would have read this book if it hadn't been an ebook daily deal, and it's one of those that would have lingered on the TBR into perpetuity.

 

I'm not sure what's up next.  I took a detour away from my shelves to read Flavia, and now I need to get back to my own books.

 

Glad I didn't put the title in my original link. Yipes. I didn't realize that was a complete spoiler for the book.

 

It's sitting here in my nook app, waiting tbr (as are so many other books in my piles). I'm looking forward to reading it, even if I have already read the spoiler article ( :tongue_smilie: ).... And I'm really glad you pointed it out as the daily deal then because, like you, I probably never would have gotten it otherwise & it would have remained on my perpetual to-read list.

 

(Be sure to post about any other great deals you stumble across, esp. any adventure reading! Please.)

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I find it interesting to hear the comments on the LotR books as Tolkien seems to have a rabid group of die-hard fans. I have never completely understood the hoopla over the LotR books (including The Hobbit). The Hobbit is fine. I can appreciate some of the LotR features, including the world-building (which is quite impressive), but those books are just so dark, dark, dark. I tried reading the trilogy in college & made it about 1/2 way through before deciding that it was so despairingly dark that I did not (could not) continue.

 

I have seen the movies. Originally I went because my dh really wanted to see it; I had no real opinion either way as it was just not something on my radar. I almost got up & walked out when the orcs showed up. I still do not think I have ever seen more terrifying creatures in a movie. I stayed & even watched the sequel movies too. They were fine but nothing that I want to see over & over.

 

I don't get the Tolkien love. :confused1:

 

You are braver than I am, Stacia. I haven't seen any of the movies nor do I have any inclination towards doing so at this point despite the fervor of my little tribe.

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I remember loving 'The Old Man and the Sea' as a teenager. What I loved was the feeling of austerity, the spareness in both the writing and the environment. Reading that book felt like turning a small piece of driftwood over and over in the hands of my mind, feeling the worn-smooth wood, the places where wind and sea and reduced it to an exploration of planed essence.

 

I live amongst a tribe of LOTR fans. I cannot find the enthusiasm to actually pick up the books and read them through though I have spent many car commutes listening and re-listening to Rob Inglis's masterful readings. And I can deeply appreciate Tolkien's mastery at weaving a multi-dimensional world but the lack of female characters (apart from a few notable exceptions) I think has something to do with my disinterest in going further with the books. Though I do have to admit to having a bit of a crush on Tom Bombadil...

 

This Hemingway fan was never pulled into The Old Man and the Sea--but I admit it has been decades since I have read the book.  I suspect that both age and my geography (living on the coast) may change my opinion.  I am adding the book to my list for 2014.

 

I find it interesting to hear the comments on the LotR books as Tolkien seems to have a rabid group of die-hard fans. I have never completely understood the hoopla over the LotR books (including The Hobbit). The Hobbit is fine. I can appreciate some of the LotR features, including the world-building (which is quite impressive), but those books are just so dark, dark, dark. I tried reading the trilogy in college & made it about 1/2 way through before deciding that it was so despairingly dark that I did not (could not) continue.

 

I have seen the movies. Originally I went because my dh really wanted to see it; I had no real opinion either way as it was just not something on my radar. I almost got up & walked out when the orcs showed up. I still do not think I have ever seen more terrifying creatures in a movie. I stayed & even watched the sequel movies too. They were fine but nothing that I want to see over & over.

 

Dd loves the LotR movies. She also loves The Hobbit movie & sequel. I saw the first Hobbit movie & it was ok. (Am I the only one who finds the long songs boring?) I did not go see the sequel that was out recently -- no interest. And, even though The Hobbit is supposed to be a more friendly book, I still find some of the scenarios (in the book) & creatures (in the movies) to be gross. Just gross. I guess I just don't understand the need/use for that??? (Yes, I'm in my old fogey mode now, I know.)

 

I don't get the Tolkien love. :confused1:

I too live with Tolkien lovers: a husband who read the books annually as a kid and a son who appeared at one point to be on a similar path.  He may no longer need to reread Tolkien, but he loves the films.

 

My reaction to the LoTR films?  Nice music. Yes, the boys could drag me to the theater for the music and I could care less what happened on the screen.  But did I need to watch the expanded versions with scenes left on the editing room floor? Well no...

 

Which brings us to Hobbit II.  My husband and son went off together after College Boy returned home as they had done the previous year.  Their idea was to see it first together, dissect it in the car afterward, then go to see it again--this time dragging me along. Fortunately I was spared Hobbit II.  They both thought the film was just silly. 

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Which brings us to Hobbit II.  My husband and son went off together after College Boy returned home as they had done the previous year.  Their idea was to see it first together, dissect it in the car afterward, then go to see it again--this time dragging me alone. Fortunately I was spared Hobbit II.  They both thought the film was just silly.

I am not very happy that they made the Hobbit into 3 films. I wish they would have just made 1 really good one geared it a bit to the younger audience like the book was. We have seen Hobbit 2 yet though.

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LoTR is a book that definately improved when I got older. As a teen I made it through the Hobbit and the first bit of the fellowship and quit. Didn't love them or hate them, blah... Fast forward 20 or so years and my neighbor was obsessed by the movies. I kept trying to tell him they just were not "right" but couldn't really explain why(20 years and not reading them all will do that ;) ) so I got the whole set and preceded to finish them all in two or three weeks with two toddlers. Loved them that time through. I did manage to get him to at least read the Hobbit and he has read the rest and now agrees with me. Dc's are pretty big fans but ds likes the movies and dd the books. Dh has watched the movies once.

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About Tolkein: The Hobbit is on my list of my favorite books of all times. I've read it multiple times. I read the Lord of the Rings trilogy once and was never tempted to read it again. I can't really remember the storyline. I've got big fans in my house too. The movies are brought out about once a year. They have moments that are ok but the orcs are beyond disgusting and Orlando Bloom skate boarding on his shield just makes me roll my eyes. I usually just go in my bedroom and read.

 

9yo ds is reading the first book in the trilogy now. The way he is buzzing through it, I'm guessing I've got another fan on my hands.

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I am not very happy that they made the Hobbit into 3 films. I wish they would have just made 1 really good one geared it a bit to the younger audience like the book was. We have seen Hobbit 2 yet though.

 

Yes.  We did see both and at the end of part 2, my husband said "maybe someday someone will make a movie version of The Hobbit."   Still, we love JRR here. My husband first read The Hobbit to the kids when they were... 5 and 6, maybe?    My daughter avoided LotR for a while but she has come around and is reading them now, after seeing the movies multiple times.  I'll be honest - it never occurred to me that there weren't enough female characters in Tolkein.   Galadriel?  Eowyn?   I feel like I am missing someone.  Arwen, but I feel she was more important in the movies than in the book.  But still.  I never felt slighted by a lack of female representation!  :001_smile:

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I am trying to pick up the threads of conversation I was in, and the responses I was in the middle of when my week took a detour.

My eldest, who is at 24 weeks, was in the hospital these past few days, and had emergency abdominal surgery... she got home today and she and the baby are doing well, thank G-d, but my mind and heart have been caught up in this, keeping updated, praying, updating family, praying some more...

 

So, If I'm typing strangely, or being a little more ramble-y than usual, or more maudlin, it is probably the aftereffects of all of this... I seem to wait until everything is okay and then the emotional weight really hits me, so I'm still a little shaky. 

 

...but also so intensely grateful to live in the time and place I do... all of our international reading last year made me look around at the infrastructure I take for granted - the medical systems, the ambulances, the sanitation, the libraries... the wealth of resources that surround me - and feel awed and humbled and grateful that I am so blessed.  So I am feeling very wealthy right now - in friends and family and community as well as the physical resources that underpin the society I live in.   (Which made me think of the Mumbai book and the comments that triggered)

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:  So glad to here your daughter and the baby are okay. Will keep all of you in our thoughts and prayers.

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Many of the Nick Adams' short stories (Hemingway) have a dearth of women but that lack does not seem problematic to me.  When Nick is in Northern Michigan fishing, he may see women or girls in town but otherwise he is often on his own. The stories have a masculine sense to me because they are coming of age stories, tales of a young man figuring out who he is.  Yet I loved the Nick Adams stories as a young woman in part because I loved the sense of place Hemingway developed in those tales.  The experiences of Nick Adams were not my experiences yet there was something in those stories that spoke to me.

 

Tolkien develops a keen sense of place in his novels but the dearth of women in Middle Earth has always troubled me.  Admittedly, I barely made it through The Hobbit at age fourteen.  I have never had the desire to read LoTR--so perhaps I have no business mentioning Tolkien.

 

 

I really enjoyed the Nick Adams stories, even as a teen. They don't seem as self-conscious as some of his later work. I read the whole slew of them 5-10 years ago and one thing I liked was that it had a lot of usual coming of age themes, but it didn't feel as over the top as Salinger. 

 

I've loved Tolkien since I was 13, but I never noticed that lack of female characters. It's a tale of knights and chivalry. Maybe I read too much King Arthur as a kid? There were always powerful women but they were never the ones on the front lines. 

 

Oh my! You can't leave me hanging. Please elaborate on the bolded 'cause I don't understand and without understanding I have to say I disagree in a very visceral way. Enlighten me, please :D

 

That's what happens when I make up a word! I mean that men haven't thought about 'expressing their experience as men.' They just think about expressing their experience, without conscious expression of gender. Women, at least in the 20th century, have been more self-conscious about 'expressing our experience as women' because we're aware of how long we've lacked that power. Some people feel the lack of that experience in male dominated literature.  

 

I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but self-consciousness burdens the novel, IMO. People take it less seriously (for good or evil). 

 

None of this is related to a male or female aesthetic/tone in a novel. There are some novels that read as very masculine or feminine, IMO, whether it was consciously intended or not. 

 

I find it interesting to hear the comments on the LotR books as Tolkien seems to have a rabid group of die-hard fans. I have never completely understood the hoopla over the LotR books (including The Hobbit). The Hobbit is fine. I can appreciate some of the LotR features, including the world-building (which is quite impressive), but those books are just so dark, dark, dark. I tried reading the trilogy in college & made it about 1/2 way through before deciding that it was so despairingly dark that I did not (could not) continue.

 

 

I don't get the Tolkien love. :confused1:

 

LotR is an epic fantasy novel. I think it appeals to a certain sort of person, often the kind who dreams in Arthurian romance and enjoyed elaborate fairy tales as a child. You do have to like epic though (long, wordy, big stakes), and you do have to like fantasy (non-realism and all that brings). 

 

Personally I love them. I read them for the first time at 13 and I strongly identified with the against all odds terms of the novels. Life was a stacked deck and you had to rally against the forces of evil to bring whatever light you could to the world. It is a worthy goal for a life and it made me feel stronger that others would give everything to fight against the night...when it felt like every other 13 year old (not to mention adult) was busy worrying about how to make themselves feel the best they could (usually at the expense of others) and make everything as easy as possible. It's a great series for an imaginative idealist.

 

This Hemingway fan was never pulled into The Old Man and the Sea--but I admit it has been decades since I have read the book.  I suspect that both age and my geography (living on the coast) may change my opinion.  I am adding the book to my list for 2014.

 

 

Which brings us to Hobbit II.  My husband and son went off together after College Boy returned home as they had done the previous year.  Their idea was to see it first together, dissect it in the car afterward, then go to see it again--this time dragging me along. Fortunately I was spared Hobbit II.  They both thought the film was just silly. 

 

I can never decide if OMatS is genius or Hemingway trying to see how far he could take his style. I do remember reading an excerpt in middle school and being fascinated by the theme, but when I read the whole thing in high school I was so depressed. Darn middle-aged writers bringing high school readers down. Cranky old men. 

 

The Hobbit 2 was super disappointing and ridiculous. 

 

 

About Tolkein: The Hobbit is on my list of my favorite books of all times. I've read it multiple times. I read the Lord of the Rings trilogy once and was never tempted to read it again. I can't really remember the storyline. I've got big fans in my house too. The movies are brought out about once a year. They have moments that are ok but the orcs are beyond disgusting and Orlando Bloom skate boarding on his shield just makes me roll my eyes. I usually just go in my bedroom and read.

 

9yo ds is reading the first book in the trilogy now. The way he is buzzing through it, I'm guessing I've got another fan on my hands.

 

I'm the opposite. I always felt The Hobbit was unbalanced and kind of boring while the LotR series (other than trying to get Frodo and Sam through Emyn Muil) was much more diverse and exciting. 

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Loving the conversation from the past couple days. Haven't had much time to spend online.  What memories sweet tea is conjuring up.  My dad was in the military so born in texas, moved around bunches, lived in Georgia and Alabama before settling on the West coast.  Still think of myself as a southerner.   Most memorable is living in  Georgia, drinking sweet tea and eating chicken fried steak.   I can't remember the restaurant name, but I loved their sweet tea.  Now I love my tea naked as someone else said.  I use one of these strainers for my loose leaf. 

 

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Both my nieces worked at Teavana so I received an education in teas, plus discovered some very interesting teas.   I'm not a coffee drinker.  That's the one thing I couldn't stand to smell when I was pregnant with James, and then medical issues when he was born precluded me having any caffeine for a while so never went back.  My husband loves coffee, expresso in particular so I bought him a coffee bean roaster and we get green beans from sweet maria's for him to roast.   The smell doesn't bother me so much but now I'm a teetotaler!   Loose leaf or bag, makes no difference to me. 

 

Chocolate wise, I'm addicted to Dreyers Fudge Brownie Ice Cream.  Can't fathom having chocolate and tea together thought.  Now rich dark chocolate and Bordeaux wine - heavenly. 

 

 

Just have to give a huge I Agree to Eliana for this statement:

 

...the really magical discussions are when, after much 'debate', much exploration of differing ideas, the participants... I'm not sure how to describe it... it is like creating something together, making a new frame of reference that transcends the individual ones that came before... something that creates a new understanding of the issue or the text from the varying viewpoints brought to the discussion...

 

...also nice are the times when everyone leaves as they entered, except they now understand another way of seeing things... even if they still passionately disagree, they've widened their minds and hearts...

 

 

 

 

Y'all have me multitasking with books again.  Reading Here Be Dragon's slowly. Took a break and dipped into a paranormal yesterday with C.E. Murphy's House of Cards (#2 in her Negotiator trilogy.     Writing wise - splitting my time between Julia Cameron's The Right to Write (which has me doing morning pages again) and Diana Raab's Writers and Their Notebooks which is a collection of essays on how authors use their journals.  Giving me a lot of food for thought.  

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<snip>

 

I think I'm uncomfortable with this... though perhaps I am not understanding you properly.

 

What does it mean to be 'self-consciously' from one gender perspective or another?  (And I would never classify Woolf as fitting any possible definition of that, fwiw)

 

From what you're saying it is seeming as if you mean that 'self-conscious' is bad, and that s-c is, in part, not having a male viewpoint too... though it doesn't seem to be parallel.. .so I think I'm missing something... could you elaborate?

 

<snip>

 

 

Ah, I'm sorry to make you (anyone) uncomfortable.  I should probably not think out loud so much.   Not sure this will help but... it seems that perhaps some writers set out to tell a story, and that story enlightens the readers in some way, whether it is about the human condition, or the female or male aspects of that, or something else. There's my Age of Innocence example again:  a great story that teaches the reader something about a way of life, a time and a place, and the men and women who inhabited it.  

 

I probably shouldn't have used the term "self-conscious."  I just couldn't think of another word to use.  That is what I mean when the author seems (from the perspective of the reader, or maybe just me) less concerned with telling a good story and more concerned with getting his or her point across, whether that's about the female condition, the male condition, the human condition, or whatever.   That is where I put The Awakening.  I didn't name any novels written by men/about the male experience simply because I couldn't think of any.  "Self-conscious"  the way I mean it here is not a good thing, no matter who writes the novel.   I'm not expressing a preference for the male viewpoint (or the female, for that matter).    I'm expressing a preference for good storytelling, in which the author gets the point across but not at the expense of a great story. 

 

Is there a better term for that? 

 

ETA:   Oh!  LostSurprise in post #431 said part of what I was trying to say:

 

That's what happens when I make up a word! I mean that men haven't thought about 'expressing their experience as men.' They just think about expressing their experience, without conscious expression of gender. Women, at least in the 20th century, have been more self-conscious about 'expressing our experience as women' because we're aware of how long we've lacked that power. Some people feel the lack of that experience in male dominated literature.  

 

I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but self-consciousness burdens the novel, IMO. People take it less seriously (for good or evil). 

 

None of this is related to a male or female aesthetic/tone in a novel. There are some novels that read as very masculine or feminine, IMO, whether it was consciously intended or not.

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Quick comments:

 

This is spot on:

 

 

 

I grew up in Albuquerque where we had a saying:  "Poor New Mexico.  So far from heaven, so close to Texas!" We had to drive across it to get to the grandparent's house in Mississippi, and it is a big ol' state to get through.

 

I drink my tea straight, my ice tea unsweetened and add some cream to my coffee.  Dark chocolate works great with coffee or a nice red wine.  Hot tea requires a scone or toast -- or cute little sandwiches at places that do "high tea".   Stacia needs to add some mosquito netting to her tree house before we come...

 

 

 

To keep this conversation on the bookish path. Here is a list of possible tea reads. And I'm remembering a Japanese tea ceremony I attended years ago--a very different experience than the taking of tea at home--having at once nothing and everything to do with tea.

 

 

 

 
 
 

 

 

Back in college days I took a cultural history of Japan course that was centered around the tea ceremony.  It is a very meditative ceremony, and certainly NOT for the drinking of the tea and bonding over a cuppa.  You just have a sip before which you bow to the person next to you and say "excuse me for drinking before you", then you pass the cup along.  The list of books you linked has a glaring omission, which is A Thousand Cranes by Yusanari Kawabata.  It's been ages since I read it, but tea ceremony and the special ceramic pots from which you drink the tea is central to the story.  

 

 

 

 

I've loved Tolkien since I was 13, but I never noticed that lack of female characters. It's a tale of knights and chivalry. Maybe I read too much King Arthur as a kid? There were always powerful women but they were never the ones on the front lines. 

 

LotR is an epic fantasy novel. I think it appeals to a certain sort of person, often the kind who dreams in Arthurian romance and enjoyed elaborate fairy tales as a child. You do have to like epic though (long, wordy, big stakes), and you do have to like fantasy (non-realism and all that brings). 

 

Personally I love them. I read them for the first time at 13 and I strongly identified with the against all odds terms of the novels. Life was a stacked deck and you had to rally against the forces of evil to bring whatever light you could to the world. It is a worthy goal for a life and it made me feel stronger that others would give everything to fight against the night...when it felt like every other 13 year old (not to mention adult) was busy worrying about how to make themselves feel the best they could (usually at the expense of others) and make everything as easy as possible. It's a great series for an imaginative idealist.

 

 

The Hobbit 2 was super disappointing and ridiculous. 

 

I'm the opposite. I always felt The Hobbit was unbalanced and kind of boring while the LotR series (other than trying to get Frodo and Sam through Emyn Muil) was much more diverse and exciting. 

 

I, too, love Tolkein.  Loved it when I was 13, love it now. The lack of women never bothered me, even back when I was 13 and proudly wearing an ERA bracelet which was styled after the POW/MIA bracelets. Loved the LoTR movies, and want so very much to like the Hobbit movies but they just tick me off.  One of my favorite homeschool years was doing the Literary Lessons of Lord of the Rings with my youngest son. I learned so much and gained a new appreciation for the work after reading Beowulf and Gawain and the Green Knight.  

 

I have thoughts on the feminism thread of this thread, but can't go that deep at the moment.  Y'all are probably glued to the tv as I type -- the broadcast has just started here on the West Coast -- so if I gather my thoughts after dinner I'll come post some more.

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I've finally dragged my way through the Dalai Lama's 'Beyond Religion: Ethics for a Whole World.' It was one of a measly *five* books I bought all for myself last year and I was *so* disappointed!  :crying:  (I very nearly did cry about it.)

I'm sorry. Disappointing books are just so....well.....disappointing.

 

 

I don't get the Tolkien love. :confused1:

Me neither but I do get the Bloom love.

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I'm the opposite. I always felt The Hobbit was unbalanced and kind of boring while the LotR series (other than trying to get Frodo and Sam through Emyn Muil) was much more diverse and exciting. 

 

Ah, but when I read the Hobbit, I become Bilbo Baggins. I am the invisible burglar, the one who must use his wits to figure out how to survive in a world that is utterly foreign to him, the one whose eyes are opened to the frightening and wonderful magic that he never knew existed.

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I love Tolkien the books and movies, but it isn't for everyone. You know that sad feeling you sometimes get when a book ends? I had that the worst after reading the LoTR trilogy. Once I had finished all three books it was like saying goodbye to a good friend. :sad:  You might try listening to an audio version. Tolkien can be very wordy and does take some time to get into the books.

This! And it seems every time I reread them, they get better and I get something more out of them. Everyone here but dh is a die hard Tolkien fan. Dh likes The Hobbit, the rest of us are more LoTR fans.

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Back in college days I took a cultural history of Japan course that was centered around the tea ceremony.  It is a very meditative ceremony, and certainly NOT for the drinking of the tea and bonding over a cuppa.  You just have a sip before which you bow to the person next to you and say "excuse me for drinking before you", then you pass the cup along.  The list of books you linked has a glaring omission, which is A Thousand Cranes by Yusanari Kawabata.  It's been ages since I read it, but tea ceremony and the special ceramic pots from which you drink the tea is central to the story.  

 

I have thoughts on the feminism thread of this thread, but can't go that deep at the moment.  Y'all are probably glued to the tv as I type -- the broadcast has just started here on the West Coast -- so if I gather my thoughts after dinner I'll come post some more.

 

Will check out that link, thanks.

 

No Olympics here due to no tv. We've been glued to the laptop watching a rollicking good version of 'Twelfth Night' from 1969 with Joan Plowright and Alec Guinness. Much guffawing has ensued on our parts.

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I finally have a chance to sit down and catch up with my BaW chums and whoa doctor!

 

 

 

 

 

The thread is up to 9 pages!   

 

Do I read one of my books or all the posts on this thread???  Y'all have been busy!!

 

I didn't know it was possible for a post to win but ... well ... this one did.   :)

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...I don't see it quite that way. I think it comes down to the human experience *including* both universal experiences and individual ones... be it a specifically male experience, or female, or transgendered, or poor, or rich, or Western or Eastern or African.. and the story of the specific experiences of one human being have, I believe, the potential to offer something regardless of the points in common between the protagonist and the reader.

... and I don't think to be universal story needs male and female views (or characters), but I do want my own literary journey to include a wide range of the human experience... not just ones that map to my own gender, culture, or time.

Well, the universal experience is a given once that first flower-offering of air hits and gives form to tiny lungs and one wades into the stream of humanity. One's humanity is the baseline and what interests me more intimately are the eddies beyond that, the elaborations on that theme, the etchings and details as they play out in and as the female experience, the details are more interesting to me from the point of view of a woman than a man.

 

Much of what informs the importance of my experience as a woman in this world is biology and the lineage of that as it unfurls down through the centuries. Not to be reductive about it but having a womb and breasts calls up an entire cellular history--mother, grandmothers, great-grandmothers, great-great grandmothers all the way back to the most ephemeral of beginnings.

 

For me the female experience is part of an intensely visceral Mystery and that Mystery is inseparable from the body I inhabit, the sensual and earthy experience of what it is to breathe as a woman. To live this out in a culture that has some fairly unsavory ideas about breasts and wombs is to be the active-still point between past and future. I want and need to see that reflected in what I read.

 

And yet the writing I'm drawn to wouldn't necessarily be called feminist and might have nothing to do outwardly with 'equality'. Plus for me that tension is much more likely to play out on the prayer mat than anywhere else, where one is so clearly brought face to face with the stunning reality that the Divine has neither equal nor opposite.

I don't think male writers are any more or less.. gender slanted... I do think that our culture has for so long normalized male viewpoint that it reads as more neutral to many of us. ...and a female viewpoint can really standout and feel different if one isn't used to encountering it.

 

For me this is a big nope, nope and nope. It's not our culture that has normalized the male viewpoint, it's the male viewpoint that has normalized and iterated itself down on through the ages. It doesn't read as neutral to me at all.

 

I do so enjoy and appreciate your wise musings and cogent observations, Eliana. They offer much rich material for my own inner journey.

None of this is related to a male or female aesthetic/tone in a novel. There are some novels that read as very masculine or feminine, IMO, whether it was consciously intended or not.

 

 

Why is that do you think? Is it the construction of the language? Are they more plot driven? Less internal? More refined? I'm really curious as to how you and anyone else who wants to chime in defines a novel that reads as masculine or feminine. Because I think I know what you mean but naming it accurately is pretty darn hard and yet I know I've read a lot less 'masculine' novels than 'feminine' ones.

LotR is an epic fantasy novel. I think it appeals to a certain sort of person, often the kind who dreams in Arthurian romance and enjoyed elaborate fairy tales as a child. You do have to like epic though (long, wordy, big stakes), and you do have to like fantasy (non-realism and all that brings).

 

Personally I love them. I read them for the first time at 13 and I strongly identified with the against all odds terms of the novels. Life was a stacked deck and you had to rally against the forces of evil to bring whatever light you could to the world. It is a worthy goal for a life and it made me feel stronger that others would give everything to fight against the night...when it felt like every other 13 year old (not to mention adult) was busy worrying about how to make themselves feel the best they could (usually at the expense of others) and make everything as easy as possible. It's a great series for an imaginative idealist.

See, I loved elaborate fairy tales as a child. Grimm's and HCA kept me company throughout my girlhood. And I would consider myself an imaginative idealist and yet...LOTR doesn't do it for me despite the wonderful characters. I do love Goldberry though :D

Ah, I'm sorry to make you (anyone) uncomfortable. I should probably not think out loud so much.

No, no, don't stop thinking out loud! Unless we all head over to Stacia's for coffee and chocolate all we've got are our own very human out-loud thoughts to work with here.

 

And finally I am stunned that y'all don't need strong female characters to complete a story for you. I'm learning so much from everyone on this thread!

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Ah, I'm sorry to make you (anyone) uncomfortable.  I should probably not think out loud so much.   Not sure this will help but... it seems that perhaps some writers set out to tell a story, and that story enlightens the readers in some way, whether it is about the human condition, or the female or male aspects of that, or something else. There's my Age of Innocence example again:  a great story that teaches the reader something about a way of life, a time and a place, and the men and women who inhabited it.  

 

 

Stepping in as morning hall monitor to say no one needs to apologize when we have discussions of varying viewpoints on this thread.  This is the perfect spot to think out loud.  We are not submitting edited, honed theses here. We are reading, growing, and chatting among friends. 

 

Now back to your usual Saturday morning program. 

 

I was too tired to stay up for all of the Olympic festivities, but I did like some of the fairy tale imagery of the opening moments with the young girl and the islands. 

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I am equally stunned at the idea that a strong female presence is  prerequisite to the "completeness" of a story.  It never crossed my mind to judge a work of literature based solely on the representation of female characters.  Never.  And fwiw I have a degree in literature.

 

I would think that this doesn't really have much to do with education about how to judge literature, but with one's personality, cultural background, life experiences, and the way one wants to engage with a book on a personal level.

 

ETA: Even though I personally don't need a strong female character in a book, I do like a strong main character, or at least one whose thoughts and actions I can identify with.

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Gotta run in a sec to skating lessons, but I had to pipe up & say that Paisley just spoke my mind exactly! So just pretend to copy her post's words in post # 443 and put my name to them too.

 

Scary that we have the mind meld going on, eh, Paisley?

 

Fwiw, I love strong female characters. But do I need then to complete a book for me? No. The Goldfinch comes to mind. Female characters are more background and it is more focused on a boy's and man's world. Yet written by a woman.

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I find myself a bit at a loss on this one.  Yes, I am female, but I am the product of my father, and grandfather, and great-grandfather just as much as of the female line.   Those men are as important genetically -- and as influential on the arc of my respective family experience -- as the women.  I do not see how those links can be un-linked or diminished.

 

I am equally stunned at the idea that a strong female presence is  prerequisite to the "completeness" of a story. 

 

Yes, this is what I was thinking too.   On a very basic level, I know that much of my personality is a direct gift (or curse in some cases :lol: ) from my father.

 

Honestly, I don't think much about my "femaleness."  I pondered this with my husband a bit and (unsurprisingly) he said he doesn't think much about his maleness. (He has also said that in his experience, I think much more like a man than like a woman.  I think this is true because I find in my interactions with both sexes I become more easily frustrated with women than I do with men.) 

 

I think self-examination is good:  how am I doing as a a wife/lover, mother, friend, sibling, a member of a congregation or neighborhood?  That just doesn't extend to my femaleness.  Maybe that's what I see in the books I dislike:  too much examination of what it means to be female.   It doesn't mean anything to me to be female.  I just am, whether as the result of a biological process or created as one. 

 

Sometimes I think there is too much focus (in general, not here on this thread) with the complexities of the female.  Men and women are equally complex.  And also equally simple, in some ways. ;)

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Hmm... since you are still over there, would you have any suggestions for monolingual Dutch grammar books? I'm in need of one for when I teach my kids (I want to brush up too) but not sure what would work well. I'd like something that is actually used in school/university, as they seem to be much more accurate than books intended to teach Dutch to foreigners.

 

Fiona, are you looking for a grammar book (taalkundig & redekundig ontleden) or a grammar usage book (kennen/kunnen, groter dan etc)? If the first, this would be good:

http://www.bol.com/nl/p/praktische-cursus-zinsontleding/1001004011281488/

This book is used at teacher training (PABO), the link is to the newest edition, but there are plenty of cheaper older editions to be found.

 

If you are looking for usage, I will have to think a bit longer.

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Yikes, I only missed yesterday and so much to catch up on!

 

I do get what Shukriyya is saying in regard to the female connection through the ages. For me, I'm very tied in with my father in regard to personality, exploring genealogy on my paternal side, etc. None of that is diminished for me by what we are saying. For me, I have neither sisters nor daughters, so I have to wonder if I'm not seeking that broader female connection/lineage/experience through literature and discussions like these. There's a broader human experience, but I do enjoy reading things that are from a uniquely female mindset.

 

Eliana, I'm sorry for the distress you've had, but so glad your daughter and grand baby are doing well!

 

Yes, watching and loving the Olympics. My favorite is the entirety of figure skating events... So much talent and just so much beauty!

 

I'm still working on The Goldfinch... Having trouble, it's really dragging for me. I'm about 20% through, so I have a lot of book left. I'm going to do some reading today... If it's not resonating with me, I may set it aside for a bit and shift gears.

 

Oh, and I'm loving the tea discussion. I admit I love tea, but I'm a bit low brow about it as I use almost exclusively bags. :leaving: I like both hot and iced tea unsweetened.... I can handle a sweetened coffee drink (though I prefer unsweetened, and never ever iced coffee!), but no sweet tea.

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Oh, and I'm loving the tea discussion. I admit I love tea, but I'm a bit low brow about it as I use almost exclusively bags. :leaving: I like both hot and iced tea unsweetened.... I can handle a sweetened coffee drink (though I prefer unsweetened, and never ever iced coffee!), but no sweet tea.

 

I use tea bags too.  My kids and I like different kinds of tea, and different needs (more herbs, less caffeine). 

 

But iced coffee?  The only thing to look forward to in the summer.   :cool:    

 

 

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I find myself a bit at a loss on this one.  Yes, I am female, but I am the product of my father, and grandfather, and great-grandfather just as much as of the female line.   Those men are as important genetically -- and as influential on the arc of my respective family experience -- as the women.  I do not see how those links can be un-linked or diminished.

 

 

I'm talking about something more subtle than genetics or personality, those are the more overt stories and aren't where my interest lies at this point. Though I do find it fascinating that while my mother was in her mother's womb I was already a presence by the mere fact that her ovaries already contained all the eggs she would have in her lifetime, one of which contained part of my dna.

 

Putting that Mystery aside for the moment, yes, obviously my paternal line is encoded in my cellular biology, I assumed that was understood. However my interest lies with the unspoken story those cells contain, for the male line it has generally been about war and going off in to battle, hunting, providing food and for the female line it's been primarily about birthing, nursing, child rearing, focusing the home and the trickle down modern manifestation of those narratives. Both epics have been unspoken into my cells over the centuries yet since I've given birth, tended to children etc etc I'm more curious about how that might also be for other women, how they might reflect their experience back through the written word, through art etc. Questions for me like what fills up their thoughts and hearts and visions in between the larger themes that bind us as women are where I have been focusing my lens.

 

 

I am equally stunned at the idea that a strong female presence is  prerequisite to the "completeness" of a story.

 

When I was younger I was quite happy to explore books written by and about men though I would probably guess that my leanings still weighed in favor of women authors though the balance was more level. Now I'm at a place in my life where the male story is less interesting to me. I don't discount it, I'm just not focused on it and there is a lack of resonance with it. I don't see this as necessarily fixed, interest is generally a mutable experience with its waxes and wanes.

 

 

Honestly, I don't think much about my "femaleness."  I pondered this with my husband a bit and (unsurprisingly) he said he doesn't think much about his maleness. (He has also said that in his experience, I think much more like a man than like a woman.  I think this is true because I find in my interactions with both sexes I become more easily frustrated with women than I do with men.) 

 

I think self-examination is good:  how am I doing as a a wife/lover, mother, friend, sibling, a member of a congregation or neighborhood?  That just doesn't extend to my femaleness.  Maybe that's what I see in the books I dislike:  too much examination of what it means to be female.   It doesn't mean anything to me to be female.  I just am, whether as the result of a biological process or created as one. 

 

But what does this mean to you? What does that mean when you say you 'think like a man'? The implication is that there's a difference between the way a man thinks and the way a woman thinks which would then naturally manifest in writing. Is it language, refinement, world view, tone, vision, breath, all of the above? I pose these questions as much to myself as you and you needn't answer them. Honestly, this kind of conversation just doesn't lend itself to an online structure and is much more fruitful, rich when it can happen over tea/coffee/wine and chocolate in comfortable chairs in a comfortable room.

 

 

I think self-examination is good:  how am I doing as a a wife/lover, mother, friend, sibling, a member of a congregation or neighborhood?  That just doesn't extend to my femaleness.  Maybe that's what I see in the books I dislike:  too much examination of what it means to be female.   It doesn't mean anything to me to be female.  I just am, whether as the result of a biological process or created as one.

 

re the bolded -- Really? Not at all? Again no need to answer online just a fascination on my part.

 

Yikes, I only missed yesterday and so much to catch up on!

 

I do get what Shukriyya is saying in regard to the female connection through the ages. For me, I'm very tied in with my father in regard to personality, exploring genealogy on my paternal side, etc. None of that is diminished for me by what we are saying. For me, I have neither sisters nor daughters, so I have to wonder if I'm not seeking that broader female connection/lineage/experience through literature and discussions like these. There's a broader human experience, but I do enjoy reading things that are from a uniquely female mindset.

 

 

That is my experience too. Neither sisters nor daughters but I come from a long line of strong pioneering women. My maternal great-grandmother homesteaded on the Canadian prairies, from Scotland, and lived in a sod house for the first year including an extremely long winter. Can you imagine??

 

Her daughter, my grandmother, was determined to work in the newspaper business which her father forbade. He allowed only teaching or nursing (!) as respectable jobs for women in that age--1920s. She got a job as a teacher and then worked at night for the city newspaper for no money just so she could get the experience. She had some hair raising stories of teaching too, riding on horseback through a forest fire to get to the school, for example.

 

Paternal grandmothers were equally intrepid. My father's mother was one of the first women to cross the as-yet unmapped-for-mines ocean from India to England after WW2 in order to get to her son who had been in boarding school all that time.

 

 

...so I have to wonder if I'm not seeking that broader female connection/lineage/experience through literature and discussions like these. There's a broader human experience, but I do enjoy reading things that are from a uniquely female mindset.

 

Yes, possibly this is a factor. I'll need to think on this a while. Thank you for that.

 

I feel moved to apologize to Robin. This is afterall a thread about books and it's gotten rather derailed into a non-book discussion, in part because of my questions. I'm happy to take up this discussion through pm and get back to books.

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Well, the universal experience is a given once that first flower-offering of air hits and gives form to tiny lungs and one wades into the stream of humanity. One's humanity is the baseline and what interests me more intimately are the eddies beyond that, the elaborations on that theme, the etchings and details as they play out in and as the female experience, the details are more interesting to me from the point of view of a woman than a man.

 

Much of what informs the importance of my experience as a woman in this world is biology and the lineage of that as it unfurls down through the centuries. Not to be reductive about it but having a womb and breasts calls up an entire cellular history--mother, grandmothers, great-grandmothers, great-great grandmothers all the way back to the most ephemeral of beginnings.

 

For me the female experience is part of an intensely visceral Mystery and that Mystery is inseparable from the body I inhabit, the sensual and earthy experience of what it is to breathe as a woman. To live this out in a culture that has some fairly unsavory ideas about breasts and wombs is to be the active-still point between past and future. I want and need to see that reflected in what I read.

 

And yet the writing I'm drawn to wouldn't necessarily be called feminist and might have nothing to do outwardly with 'equality'. Plus for me that tension is much more likely to play out on the prayer mat than anywhere else, where one is so clearly brought face to face with the stunning reality that the Divine has neither equal nor opposite.

 

*********************************

Why is that do you think? Is it the construction of the language? Are they more plot driven? Less internal? More refined? I'm really curious as to how you and anyone else who wants to chime in defines a novel that reads as masculine or feminine. Because I think I know what you mean but naming it accurately is pretty darn hard and yet I know I've read a lot less 'masculine' novels than 'feminine' ones.

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And finally I am stunned that y'all don't need strong female characters to complete a story for you. I'm learning so much from everyone on this thread!

 

 

So many thoughts this generates, yet I found it very difficult to put into words.  Sat down with pencil and paper to organize my thoughts and the end result. Nothing that made any sense, except to me.    I gather you are very in tune with yourself, sense of space, time, history, place in this world and always seeking to learn more, to understand, questioning always.  Which in turn, through those questions, makes other people think.     I guess it all comes down to semantics or labels because I've never been one to label myself or identify myself with a certain group or think speak.    I have to go back to the equal rights discussion for a moment because last night I remembered something that irked me quite a bit at time.  I was reminded that prior to ERA, men held women up on a pedestal, they were to be respected, revered, honored, and yes cared for.  Men held women in high regard.  Then the ERA thing came along and suddenly we were dumped off our pedestal and brought down to their level.   The mystic was destroyed and we became equal.  And I guess ever since, women (used generically and not pointed at anyone specifically)   have been trying to get that honor back without realizing it. 

 

Okay - now how does that relate to the female experience. Alright I going to think out loud here.   What is the difference between a female mind and a male mind?  For the most part, women are more emotional, need to talk things out and vent and better basically at multitasking.  Males are logical, compartmentalize things, can only do one thing at a time, and have the need to fix things.  They don't understand venting for the most part and when they hear venting, they want to fix the problem.  They don't want to hear about the problem over and over again.   Now, here's where I break away from the female mold.  I am more logical and analytical (Guess I got that from my dad) so try to solve problems from that aspect rather than the emotional.   I get along better with men than women because of that.  I guess what I'm trying to say is I just can't relate to it.  I'm human, unique and view others in the same way, so sometimes find it very hard to define. 

 

So what does that have to do with books and the strong female character or masculine versus feminine stories.

 

I don't need every story to have a strong female character unless that is what the story calls for.  But I prefer to read books with strong female characters, but ones who think and feel and not just trying to be kick a*s.    What I don't like is if the female main character starts out weak in the story and never changes, never learns, just remains consistently the same and goes nowhere.  What was the purpose of the story? For her to whine, moan and complain?  To share her feelings and wants and needs just because?  Is it enlightening, educational, entertaining in any way, shape or form?   If anyone here likes that type of story, forgive me, I mean no insult.     I just don't see the purpose of it.   Which is why I'm not a big fan of relationship stories.  Give me action and mystery any day.  

 

Fiction is supposed to exaggerate or make the reader  suspend disbelief, draw them into an imaginary world and entertain.  Authors create unique characters, worlds, and situations for the reader to disappear into.  If they do it right.   What makes a story more masculine versus the feminine, I think has everything to do with the character and how they act.  Take the same adventure story, written from two distinctly different points of view, the male versus the female and it will turn out differently because of how men and women think.   Male writers, especially those from Hemingway's era, will paint a picture of woman we can not understand now, because we didn't grow up during that time frame.  We'll see it as stereotyping, but that's the way he thought.  That's another thing to be aware of, the time frame in which the book was written.    I can't say men write more plot driven novels versus character driven novels because I've read all kinds.   I can tell the difference when a female author doesn't understand how men think, because her male characters are just too emotional, too in touch with their female sides to be believable.  There just isn't enough maleness to them if you get my drift.   There are all kinds of things that can throw me out of a story. 

 

I'm losing steam here so want to say thanks for the interesting questions and sparking my brain cells into action this morning. 

 

 

 

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Today, while soaking in a chamomile, lavender, and rosemary bath, I finished Medicinal Herbs: A Beginner's Guide by Rosemary Gladstar.  I love her books and enjoy reading them over and over. 

 

At the library, I picked up The Hot Zone by Richard Preston and Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why by Laurence Gonzales.  I haven't decided which I'll start next.

 

 

Completed So Far

 

1. The Wednesday Letters by Jason F. Wright

2. Winnie Mandela: Life of Struggle by Jim Haskins

3. Herbal Antibiotics by Stephen Harrod Buhner

4. When Did White Trash Become the New Normal? by Charlotte Hays

5. Family Herbal by Rosemary Gladstar

6. Romeo and Juliet by Shakespeare

7. Medicinal Herbs: A Beginner's Guide by Rosemary Gladstar

 

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I feel moved to apologize to Robin. This is after all a thread about books and it's gotten rather derailed into a non-book discussion, in part because of my questions. I'm happy to take up this discussion through pm and get back to books.

No need to apologize.  It all relates to books in some way, shape or form.  Books lead us to think, to wonder down rabbit trails and explore, to question, to inspire. Nothing wrong with that.

 

 

Lifehack's 10 benefits of reading

 

 

 

Reading without reflecting is like eating without digesting.  ~Edmund Burke

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Today, while soaking in a chamomile, lavender, and rosemary bath, I finished Medicinal Herbs: A Beginner's Guide by Rosemary Gladstar.  I love her books and enjoy reading them over and over. 

 

At the library, I picked up The Hot Zone by Richard Preston and Deep Survival: Who Lives, Who Dies, and Why by Laurence Gonzales.  I haven't decided which I'll start next.

 

Given that you bathed in herbs while reading Medicinal Herbs, I fear for you if you select either The Hot Zone or Deep Survival!

 

Regards,

Kareni

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Last night I finished Anne Stuart's historical romance Never Kiss a Rake (Scandal at the House of Russell, Book One)It was a pleasant read.

 

"Bryony Russell and her two sisters are left destitute by the disgrace and unexpected death of their father, a wealthy shipping magnate. He left a cryptic note, and Bryony is determined to find the real villain and clear her father’s name. In disguise as a servant, Bryony infiltrates the home of her father’s business partner to find proof of his guilt…or innocence. It’s not just clues that Bryony finds, but temptation too…

 

Adrian Bruton, Earl of Kilmartyn, immediately suspects there is something not quite right about his new housekeeper. The brooding, irresistible rake plays along because he has his own guilty secrets, and his venal, scheming wife holds the key to them, trapping him in a hate-filled marriage. But against his will he’s fascinated by Bryony, seeing past the scars on her face to show her the beauty she never knew she had. Bryony must uncover the truth and attempt to preserve her father’s legacy, before things go too far and she falls in love with a man who might very well be her worst enemy."

 

I'm sufficiently intrigued that I'll look for the second book in the series which came out in December, Never Trust a Pirate (Scandal at the House of Russell, Book Two).

 

Regards,

Kareni

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Shukriyya, two books that popped into my head that you might enjoy...

 

Half Broke Horses by Jeannette Walls

Pink Boots and a Machete by Mireya Mayor

 

Neither is lyrical nor poetic, but both are quite fascinating on their own terms.

 

I have read Half Broke Horses and actually found much lyricism and poetry in it. I recently read a long interview with the author in the NYTimes Sunday magazine. What a life!

 

That second book scares me and inspires the urge to run in the opposite direction :lol:  The machete is implied in these heels don'tcha think? :smilielol5:

 

 

 
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