1st timer in high school question....SCIENCE!

[Murrayshire]

I believe this is my first post on the high school board! Hi All!

 

This year for 8th grade science, dd is using Science Fusion....modules H, I, & J. (Matter & Energy - Motion, Forces, & Energy - Sound & Light).

 

We were planning on Biology for 9th grade..... She doesn't feel too sure about the little bit of Chemistry that she has learned. Could she still take a biology next year or should she be more acquainted with chem topics first?

 

I know she was really hoping to move on to BIO and human body topics for 9th. I would definitely want a DVD based or online class for her. I am not strong in the science area and want her to be well prepared for future science courses. We are thinking of dual enrollment for 11 - 12th grades.

 

Any feedback would be great!

Thanks!

[Mom22ns]

It totally depends on your choice of Biology programs. For most on level high school Biology, no previous Chemistry knowledges is assumed or needed. How much Chemistry is actually taught or used in Biology varies dramatically though.

[kiana]

In addition to the variability of biology programs, I wouldn't do chemistry without having completed at least algebra 1.

[Murrayshire]

It totally depends on your choice of Biology programs. For most on level high school Biology, no previous Chemistry knowledges is assumed or needed. How much Chemistry is actually taught or used in Biology varies dramatically though.

 

Could you recommend some on level high school Biology?

 

Thank you!

[Murrayshire]

In addition to the variability of biology programs, I wouldn't do chemistry without having completed at least algebra 1.

She is working successfully through Algebra1 this year with TT and other supplements.

Thanks for chiming in!

[Lori D.]

Welcome to the "big board"! :)

 

Check out Dicentra's post that just recently got a bump. It is a mega-compilation of all kinds of options for Homeschool High School Biology.

 

Of the ones she lists, the most frequently used/discussed tend to be:

- Miller-Levine (secular)

- Holt (secular)

- Campbell-Reece

- Bob Jones (Christian) -- rigorous

- Abeka (Christian)

- Apologia (Christian) -- discussed often whether "complete" enough or not

 

A few supplements get mentioned a lot, too:

- Virtual Dissection (online video of dissections, so the squeamish don't have to do them at home)

- Red Wagon video tutorials (to go with Apologia)

- DIVE Biology (video tutorials, Christian, often used to help with Bob Jones)

- Thinkwell Biology (video tutorials on CD-Rom; very extensive as it covers all the topics of a "survey" or "intro" college course)

- CK-12, with the Home Scientist Illustrated Biology Experiments at Home guide

 

 

I will say that, for some unknown reason, Biology seems to the science MOST difficult for homeschoolers to find what they like at the high school level... Maybe it's because we're all new to high school at that time and we're still tugging at our collars and waistbands trying to make it "fit", 'cause high school science just isn't like what we got used to in elementary/middle school grades of homeschool... So, don't be surprised if it takes you awhile to find your way and choose something. ;)

 

BEST of luck as you begin your research, and in finding what connects best for your family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[nerdybird]

I don't have any kids at the HS level yet. However, I am a science major (computer science is still science! I swear!), as is DH (also a big computer lovin' geek). Personally, I feel that biology and life sciences are kind of overrated as beginning material for high school sciences. For my kids, I have set up our curriculum so that are sequence is chemistry and physics based rather than life science based.

 

I think that biology is best left until after you've had some exposure to the hard sciences. Cells are made up of atoms, life is a series of chemical reactions, etc. It makes more sense to study physics or chemistry or both first before diving into biology. Plus I feel like biology is best taught in a hands on, lab setting and/or through direct observation in nature. It's not something that you can get a real feel for in a classroom setting. Even doing RS4K Elementary Biology with my kids this year has proven to be a bit of a crapshoot. I can't imagine trying to do a high school level biology course at home.

 

If your student has Algebra under their belt, I'd suggest going straight into chemistry next year, followed by physics and a side course in biochemistry. Then doing a intro to biology course or AP Biology course in a proper setting if that's an option. All of that aside, I do think that science is more than just biology, chemistry and physics. Programming/logic/computer science is very vital to our modern world. It is often lumped with math, but I think that programming, infastructures, and concept designs are vital concepts to learn. The best part is programming requires no complicated lab set-ups. Just a computer, a program and some code. I've been wanting to mess around with the MIT App Inventor for awhile...Lego Mindstrom and Technic are other options as well, but require a bit more investment of time and energy.

 

More than 2 cents has been added, :p...

 

Best of luck in finding the right fit for you and yours. :)

 

[kiana]

I will say that, for some unknown reason, Biology seems to the science MOST difficult for homeschoolers to find what they like at the high school level... Maybe it's because we're all new to high school at that time and we're still tugging at our collars and waistbands trying to make it "fit", 'cause high school science just isn't like what we got used to in elementary/middle school grades of homeschool... So, don't be surprised if it takes you awhile to find your way and choose something. ;)

 

BEST of luck as you begin your research, and in finding what connects best for your family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

I think another big reason for this is because biology is something where it's a lot harder to use a secular curriculum if you want a creationist one and vice versa.

 

OP, there are good and convincing arguments for pretty much any path you could follow.

 

Conceptual physics would deepen and strengthen a later chemistry course.

Chemistry would deepen and strengthen a later biology course.

An integrated intro to physics and chemistry would do the same.

Doing biology first, on the other hand, is very traditional and gives time for more math to be taken so that a more mathematically based first course in chemistry and physics can be taken, and the connections can be backfilled in a later biology course.

 

If your dd is more interested in doing chemistry first, it's an absolutely reasonable path. If you do do this, you may want to investigate doing algebra II concurrently and then doing geometry afterwards, as many programs have a prereq of concurrent enrollment in algebra II. I believe apologia only requires algebra I.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I realize that this sounds crazy but I'd want to take into consideration a full 4 year plan for science.  Are you even planning 4 years of science, are APs or SATIIs part of the future plan, are the science requirements for majors or colleges that would be considered, etc.?  Then begin to lay out all 4 years.  For example, we tried to begin with Physics-that ended up being really overwhelming for my freshman.  We backed up and did earth science, then chem and I think it will follow with physics and then bio senior year.  My next younger kid will do earth science in 8th, then chem in 9th (I learned the 1st time), and then physics, then bio and finally an advanced or AP level course senior year.  This kid wants to consider university programs that are more demanding on the STEM end for admissions so he needs a different track.

 

FWIW-I have my 1st grader studying chem (at his level) along side his big sis-he loves watching the experiments.  Glad that this opportunity allows them to share this-even if the 1st grader doesn't understand it all he is gaining an enjoyment of science, discovery, and learning.  For 1st grade I call that a win.

[IanSebast]

As a biologist I'll tell you that it makes more sense to me to take biology before chemistry. Physics is it's own little world and can fit anywhere, but chemistry is better as a succession of biology because a lot of the topics you'll study there are going to have been seen in biology on a more superficial level...that's my opinion.

As far as the comment that "programming, infastructures, and concept designs are vital concepts to learn," I agree, unfortunately you cannot include them in your transcript as a science course because they are, well, math!

 

You can always offer AP or more advanced courses after biology has been studied, that's what I have planned to do with my dc anyway.

 

Good luck!

[regentrude]

As a biologist I'll tell you that it makes more sense to me to take biology before chemistry. Physics is it's own little world and can fit anywhere, but chemistry is better as a succession of biology because a lot of the topics you'll study there are going to have been seen in biology on a more superficial level.

 

After our experience with a rigorous biology course as first high school science (because I did not know any better as a fresh homeschooler), I will  make sure that DS has covered chemistry before doing biology. It will save a lot of time and make the understanding easier. I do not quite see the rationale of covering something superficially being beneficial for an in depth study later - my mind works the other way around.

This said, I disagree that physics is separate. Since every system, even biological ones, has to obey the laws of physics, and chemistry is basically an application of physics, it makes sense to cover physics first (the only reason against it is the insufficient math preparation of many students).

Especially with the modern coverage of biology, which focuses more on cellular processes than on classification of organisms, it will make understanding easier. All processes on a cellular level are driven by very basic physics principles. For example, understanding how electric potential differences cause electric fields which exert forces on charged particles is required to understand ion channels in cell membranes or proton pumps; otherwise the student can only accept it at face value and nod. Or as another example: nervous system, impulse transmission along the axon, the critical role of the myelin sheath - all physics, and a student who has a basic understanding of capacitors and resistors will benefit.

[Murrayshire]

Welcome to the "big board"! :)

 

Check out Dicentra's post that just recently got a bump. It is a mega-compilation of all kinds of options for Homeschool High School Biology.

 

Of the ones she lists, the most frequently used/discussed tend to be:

- Miller-Levine (secular)

- Holt (secular)

- Campbell-Reece

- Bob Jones (Christian) -- rigorous

- Abeka (Christian)

- Apologia (Christian) -- discussed often whether "complete" enough or not

 

A few supplements get mentioned a lot, too:

- Virtual Dissection (online video of dissections, so the squeamish don't have to do them at home)

- Red Wagon video tutorials (to go with Apologia)

- DIVE Biology (video tutorials, Christian, often used to help with Bob Jones)

- Thinkwell Biology (video tutorials on CD-Rom; very extensive as it covers all the topics of a "survey" or "intro" college course)

- CK-12, with the Home Scientist Illustrated Biology Experiments at Home guide

 

 

I will say that, for some unknown reason, Biology seems to the science MOST difficult for homeschoolers to find what they like at the high school level... Maybe it's because we're all new to high school at that time and we're still tugging at our collars and waistbands trying to make it "fit", 'cause high school science just isn't like what we got used to in elementary/middle school grades of homeschool... So, don't be surprised if it takes you awhile to find your way and choose something. ;)

 

BEST of luck as you begin your research, and in finding what connects best for your family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Thank you LoriD.! I always love reading your posts...... You give so much encouragement!

I will read over that link and think, think, think some more!

[Murrayshire]

I don't have any kids at the HS level yet. However, I am a science major (computer science is still science! I swear!), as is DH (also a big computer lovin' geek). Personally, I feel that biology and life sciences are kind of overrated as beginning material for high school sciences. For my kids, I have set up our curriculum so that are sequence is chemistry and physics based rather than life science based.

 

I think that biology is best left until after you've had some exposure to the hard sciences. Cells are made up of atoms, life is a series of chemical reactions, etc. It makes more sense to study physics or chemistry or both first before diving into biology. Plus I feel like biology is best taught in a hands on, lab setting and/or through direct observation in nature. It's not something that you can get a real feel for in a classroom setting. Even doing RS4K Elementary Biology with my kids this year has proven to be a bit of a crapshoot. I can't imagine trying to do a high school level biology course at home.

 

If your student has Algebra under their belt, I'd suggest going straight into chemistry next year, followed by physics and a side course in biochemistry. Then doing a intro to biology course or AP Biology course in a proper setting if that's an option. All of that aside, I do think that science is more than just biology, chemistry and physics. Programming/logic/computer science is very vital to our modern world. It is often lumped with math, but I think that programming, infastructures, and concept designs are vital concepts to learn. The best part is programming requires no complicated lab set-ups. Just a computer, a program and some code. I've been wanting to mess around with the MIT App Inventor for awhile...Lego Mindstrom and Technic are other options as well, but require a bit more investment of time and energy.

 

More than 2 cents has been added, :p...

 

Best of luck in finding the right fit for you and yours. :)

You have given me great things to think about! Possibly more questions for you later. 😉

[Murrayshire]

I realize that this sounds crazy but I'd want to take into consideration a full 4 year plan for science. Are you even planning 4 years of science, are APs or SATIIs part of the future plan, are the science requirements for majors or colleges that would be considered, etc.? Then begin to lay out all 4 years. For example, we tried to begin with Physics-that ended up being really overwhelming for my freshman. We backed up and did earth science, then chem and I think it will follow with physics and then bio senior year. My next younger kid will do earth science in 8th, then chem in 9th (I learned the 1st time), and then physics, then bio and finally an advanced or AP level course senior year. This kid wants to consider university programs that are more demanding on the STEM end for admissions so he needs a different track.

 

FWIW-I have my 1st grader studying chem (at his level) along side his big sis-he loves watching the experiments. Glad that this opportunity allows them to share this-even if the 1st grader doesn't understand it all he is gaining an enjoyment of science, discovery, and learning. For 1st grade I call that a win.

As of now, dd wants to pursue nursing..... We will most likely use dual enrollment for 11th and 12th grades at CC then let her move into the nursing program at the CC. I don't foresee University, but you never know!

 

I don't have a science line-up right now.... As I am still researching. I know she hopes to study bio and anatomy.

 

Thank you for your feedback!

[Mom22ns]

Could you recommend some on level high school Biology?

 

Thank you!

 

Christian or Secular? 

 

Lori gave you a good list to explore. Both my kids used Miller/Levine Biology. One combined that with DIVE, one didn't. I love the book and the online resources that come with it if you purchase it new. You can refer to this thread for how to make that happen.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

As of now, dd wants to pursue nursing..... We will most likely use dual enrollment for 11th and 12th grades at CC then let her move into the nursing program at the CC. I don't foresee University, but you never know!

 

I don't have a science line-up right now.... As I am still researching. I know she hopes to study bio and anatomy.

 

Thank you for your feedback!

 

Then I think my planning would involve looking at what courses she wants for DE and what pre-requisets or knowledge she might need to be successful there.  I'd also take a look at the nursing program and see what they want for admission.  Be sure to look for anything that notes "with lab" as a requirement and make sure you do use labs.  (Keep in mind they might have some math requirements too.)  Best of luck to her!

[nerdybird]

If your daughter is wanting to pursue nursing, here is what one of my local school districts requires as part of their pre-medical studies program (it is a large school district. would link but it won't copy for some reason.)

 

Grade 9:

Geometry or Algebra 2

Biology (1 year, full course, traditional or honors. includes labs.)

 

Grade 10:

Algebra 2 or Precalculus

Chemistry 1 (1 year, full course. includes labs.)

 

Grade 11:

Precalculus or Calculus

Human Anatomy and Physiology (1 year, full course, doesn't specify labs.)

**Chemistry 2 or Biology 2 (not required)

 

Grade 12:

Calculus

Intro to Organic Chemistry (this is college level, taught at local CC)

 

Perhaps this helps?

 

*****************************************************************

As far as the comment that "programming, infastructures, and concept designs are vital concepts to learn," I agree, unfortunately you cannot include them in your transcript as a science course because they are, well, math!

 

 

I think it depends on how you bill it. Robotics counts as a science in some cases, as does Biotechnology. You can also bill it as Physics in some cases. It depends on the scope of the course. A true programming or computer science course will count as math in most cases, or an elective in some.

 

So I concede. Point taken. I am a computer scientist... :confused1:

[Murrayshire]

Christian or Secular? 

 

Lori gave you a good list to explore. Both my kids used Miller/Levine Biology. One combined that with DIVE, one didn't. I love the book and the online resources that come with it if you purchase it new. You can refer to this thread for how to make that happen.

Preferably secular..... Though I'm getting pretty fluent in "tweaking" just about everything!

That is a resourceful thread...... Thanks for linking it to me!

 

 

  

If your daughter is wanting to pursue nursing, here is what one of my local school districts requires as part of their pre-medical studies program (it is a large school district. would link but it won't copy for some reason.)

 

Grade 9:

Geometry or Algebra 2

Biology (1 year, full course, traditional or honors. includes labs.)

 

Grade 10:

Algebra 2 or Precalculus

Chemistry 1 (1 year, full course. includes labs.)

 

Grade 11:

Precalculus or Calculus

Human Anatomy and Physiology (1 year, full course, doesn't specify labs.)

**Chemistry 2 or Biology 2 (not required)

 

Grade 12:

Calculus

Intro to Organic Chemistry (this is college level, taught at local CC)

 

Perhaps this helps?

 

 

Tremendously! You have no idea.... Well, maybe you do!

I will now go look at the nursing program's requirements.......

Thanks!

[nerdybird]

Glad to be of assistance. :)

 

One thing that you may want to consider once you have decided on a course of study for your DD is integrating the metric system into your science and/or math programs. Most medical calculations (and a lot of chemistry calculations) are done according to the metric system. It can be a shock to the system for some, so if you are doing biology first or otherwise have time, consider supplementing with metric resources to familiarize her with the way it works.